Transcript
Automatically generated transcript. It may contain errors and includes testimony in languages other than English that is not individually marked up for assistive technology.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, all right, good afternoon.
I call this meeting of the Portland City Council Committee of the Whole to order.
It is October October 21st, 2026 at 2:01 PM.
Diego, will you please call the roll?
Unidentified speaker
Good afternoon.
Clark?
Olivia Clark
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Green?
Mitch Green
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Zimmerman?
Avalos?
Candace Avalos
Present.
Unidentified speaker
Smith?
Loretta Smith
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Pirtle-Guiney?
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Ryan?
Dan Ryan
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Koyama Lane?
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Morillo?
Angelita Morillo
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Novick.
Steve Novick
Here.
Unidentified speaker
Dunphy.
Jamie Dunphy
Here.
Sameer Kanal
Kanal.
Here.
Christopher, will you please read the statement of conduct?
Unidentified speaker
Good afternoon.
Welcome to the meeting of the Finance and Governance Committee of the Whole.
To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at www.portland.gov/council/agenda/committee-whole or by calling 311.
Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link.
Registration for virtual testimony Public testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.
In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.
Nancy Thorington
If public testimony will be taken on an item, individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the Chair states otherwise.
Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.
The Chair preserves order.
Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.
If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.
Further disruption results in ejection from the meeting.
Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.
Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually.
Your testimony address the matter being considered.
When testifying, state your name for the record.
Unidentified speaker
If you're a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent, and virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name.
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Christopher.
Colleagues, today we have a pretty packed agenda with items that are primarily related to reports or resolutions that appoint people to various appointed bodies and commissions.
We will have some folks here joining us for those, but obviously each staff present the presenter will let us know who is able to join us.
Um, following that, we do have an item which is a report back from a workgroup that was established to discuss the process by which City Council, um, elects its council leadership each January.
Um, that's designed to be a conversation starter.
It's not designed to come up with any particular outcomes on the day, but enable those to be considered going into, uh, the fall and, and into January.
Um, with that, I'm going to ask if— Councilor Diego, if you could read item 1, please.
Unidentified speaker
Item 1, document number 2026-373, committee chair updates.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you all.
So the item is posted online.
There's copies being passed around.
The committee, or sorry, the chair update today, it's primarily making a lot of things that were possible into tentative or tentative into confirmed as we get closer to the end of the year.
Most of the things that are left thank you.
The things that are marked as tentative are just things that haven't been filed yet by the administration.
For example, the appointments on November 18th are effectively, we're being told, are locked in, just haven't yet been put through the filing process.
Couple dates moving up and down, things like that as well.
But this is pretty much our run for the rest of the year.
We do have a little bit of flexibility built in in case somebody files something, but I would strongly advise colleagues who might have an item that is going to come to Committee of the Whole to file it it as soon as possible.
Um, on page 2, I've made it pretty clear now on here that, uh, anything that isn't yet on this agenda is probably going to get, um, sent to the future leadership of committees, this and others next year.
Um, but I did get some, some additional items that were suggested, um, not necessarily ready for discussion, but which are, uh, eventually maybe things that, that either the administration or, or councilor may want at this committee.
So I made sure to add those to that list so that future thank you.
And then I'm just trying to get more things figured out for the leadership requests and workgroups in terms of filing and being clear about what's being left.
I will note that Councilor Novick and I are the only 2 people listed on helping plan the oversight hearing on span of control and management layers.
We are getting a lot of assistance from the administration in that regard, but if there are any other councilors who'd like to be added to that, would love the support, and I'm sure I, I'll speak for Councilor Novick and say I'm sure he would too, uh, on helping go through what may be thousands of pages of records.
Um, and then Councilor Clark is sick today, so I know she's online, but I think we're going to end up skipping unless there's anything, um, anyone wanted to add in terms of the, um, Public Works Committee, uh, coming up.
I don't know if, um, not to put anybody on the spot, but if there was anything that anyone wanted to add on that before we okay, any questions?
I'll just let people have a moment to get in the queue.
So, Councilor Novick?
Steve Novick
Yeah, just, um, thank you, Chair.
Um, on oversight/public safety response times, uh, I am hoping that we can bring PPB, uh, back up, up in caps again in the next couple of months to see if we can get more thorough answers than we got before.
Sameer Kanal
Yeah, thanks.
And, and on that subject, I, I think, um, if it's something that checks the— that sort of the discussion item in caps meets the need, then it doesn't have to be here.
And I'm happy to let the Committee on Community and Public Safety take the lead on that.
All right, thanks.
With that, um, and this— and Diego, if you could please read item 2.
Unidentified speaker
Item 2, document number 2026-370, reappoint Kim Lower and Craig Freeman to the Revenue Division Appeals Board.
Sameer Kanal
Great, and we'll welcome up Selita Holt, uh, who will be leading our presentation.
Please take it away.
Thank you.
Selita Holt
Perfect.
Hello, good afternoon.
I'm Selita Holt, the Audit and Accounting Manager with the Revenue Division.
The Revenue Division is seeking to fill 2 positions on the Revenue Division Appeal Board.
We refer to it as RDAB for short.
The Revenue Division administers various tax and fee programs on behalf of the City of Portland, Multnomah County, and Metro.
These taxes include the business and personal income taxes, transient lodging tax, utility license fee, clean energy surcharge, arts education tax, and other programs.
RDAB is a 5-member volunteer board comprised of members of the public that rule on appeals from tax filers who disagree with a Revenue Division determination.
Per Portland City Code Section 7.02-295, these positions are appointed by the mayor subject to approval by City Council.
Additionally, the code requires that RDAB appointments be made to candidates with the appropriate level of expertise in accounting methods and tax laws, which typically means that they would have a CPA license or a strong tax experience background.
2 Board member positions will expire on December 31st, 2026.
And we are seeking reappointment of 2 current occupants.
These positions serve 2 or 3-year terms with staggered end dates and are structured this way to fill the existing terms with little to no interruption.
These positions must also be approved by Multnomah County and Metro per intergovernmental agreement.
I'd like to introduce Kim Lohr and Craig Freeman.
Kim is a licensed CPA, formerly a state and local principal at Deloitte, and she more currently took on a position at Clark Neuberger.
Hi.
Kim has 30 years of experience in state and local taxation.
This board position required approval from Multnomah County, and they approved.
Craig is a licensed CPA, senior manager at Geffen Mesher, with more than 20 years of tax professional experience.
This board position also required approval from Metro, and they approved.
These 2 potential appointees meet the qualifications required by code.
They have previously and will continue to serve the public, the City of Portland, and our partner agencies well in any matters coming before the board.
As both candidates expressed interest in reappointment and both were also approved by Metro and/or Multnomah County, we did not recruit for these positions.
So thank you for your time.
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
We also have Kim and Craig available online in case you have questions for them, but just a heads up, Kim may have to leave early.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, well, thank you, Selita, for being here.
Thank you to our current appointees for being willing to continue serving.
Colleagues, if you'd like to get in the queue to ask any questions, you may.
While that's happening, is there any public testimony on this item?
Unidentified speaker
No one has signed up.
Sameer Kanal
Okay.
In terms of our current practice, both here and previous years, or last year I should say, for reappointees, we don't ask them to come give their introductory statement.
We only do that for new appointees, but they are available for questions and I appreciate that.
So I'm just gonna pause for dramatic effect to see if there are folks in the queue.
Councilor Ryan.
Dan Ryan
Yeah, real quick question.
Are these 2-year terms?
Selita Holt
So one of them is 2 years.
So Craig's is a 2-year renewal and Kim is a 3-year.
Unidentified speaker
Okay.
Dan Ryan
I just noticed they were different dates.
Yeah.
And it's because they're filling in a—.
Selita Holt
So yeah, we tried to stagger it so that we always have people that are currently appointed.
So yeah, so some of them have 2 years, some of them 3.
Dan Ryan
The skill sets of these volunteers are perfect for this role.
Selita Holt
Oh, most definitely.
Dan Ryan
So great job in recruitment.
Yeah, thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Ryan.
I'm next in the queue, and I'll just ask, because I think you kind of mentioned that generally if there's someone who wants to continue on, you wouldn't do a recruitment.
Selita Holt
Correct.
Sameer Kanal
But the fact that this is being reproposed means somebody, I'm guessing in the mayor's office and/or your offices, has made the determination that it is in that you would like to recommend retaining them as well?
Selita Holt
Yes, yes.
So we first ask them if they want to renew.
If they agree, then yeah, we run it past the mayor's office, or I believe Jonas in this case, and then also our stakeholders.
So Multnomah County and Metro.
Sameer Kanal
And did Metro and Multnomah County give their support for this at the time of their initial appointment only, or again now?
Selita Holt
Again now.
So both times.
So anytime there's a reappointment or initial appointment, if it's for one of the Multnomah County or Metro-specific board positions, then yeah, they have to get their approval each time.
Candace Avalos
Okay.
Sameer Kanal
And this is probably not as relevant for this one, but it's helpful knowledge for me going into a later one today.
Is our process for the revenue for these 2 spots, which are through intergovernmental agreement, effectively that we are taking their Multnomah County and Metro's recommendation, or is it a joint appointment?
How would you describe the nature of that relationship?
Selita Holt
So I would say it's joint.
Unidentified speaker
If we first recommend them, but if Multnomah County or Metro, they have any concerns, then we would not go forward with it and proceed with the recruitment.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, great.
Thank you.
Colleagues, seeing nobody else in the queue and there being no public testimony, I'll ask if Diego could please call the roll.
Oh, I'm sorry.
We do need a— wait, this is a report.
So we do need a motion to refer the report on to the full council with a do pass recommendation moved by Councilor Councilor Ryan, is there a second?
Seconded by Councilor Koyama Lane.
Is there any further discussion?
Seeing none, Diego, will you please call the roll?
Unidentified speaker
Thank you.
Clark?
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Keelan McClymont
Green?
Mitch Green
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Avalos?
Candace Avalos
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Smith?
Loretta Smith
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Pirtle-Guiney?
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Ryan?
Dan Ryan
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Koyama Lane?
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Morillo?
Angelita Morillo
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Novick?
Steve Novick
Aye.
Sameer Kanal
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
With 10 ayes and 2 absent, the motion carries to refer the report, document number 2026-370, to City Council with the recommendation it be accepted.
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Kim and Craig, for your willingness to serve.
Thank you, Salida, for the presentation.
And Diego, will you please call items Item 3.
Unidentified speaker
Item 3, document number 2026-355, reappoint member to the Cully Tax Increment Financing District Community Leadership Committee and appoint new members to the 82nd Avenue Area and Sumner Parkrose Argay Columbia Corridor Tax Increment Financing District Community Leadership Committees.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you.
And we have with us Executive Director of Prosper Portland, Cornell Wesley.
And while he's coming up, I'll just say I think this might set the record for longest title of a document we have had so far.
Thank you for being here, Director Wesley.
Please take it away.
Cornell Wesley
Well, good afternoon, councilors.
For the record, my name is Cornell Wesley, and I have the pleasure of serving as Executive Director of Prosper Portland.
I'm excited to share the work that Prosper Portland and the Portland Housing Bureau are doing in East Portland.
And to present for consideration here individuals who will support the ongoing work in each TIF district.
Now, as a brief outline of this presentation, I will provide an overview of the East Portland TIF districts in terms of their timelines and where they are in the action planning process, as well as the roles these CLCs play in priority setting and investment strategy.
I will then share about the CLC selection process and close it by introducing the nominees as you can see on the screen, this presentation is titled Fall 2026 Reappointments.
I point that out because I want to make sure you all note that our intention going forward is to bring TIF CLC appointments to you in groups quarterly rather than bringing forward appointments individually and separately.
Eric Zimmerman
Thank you.
Next slide.
Cornell Wesley
On the screen is a map of the East Portland TIF district boundaries overlaid with the council district map.
The East Portland TIF districts span Council Districts 1, 2, and 3.
The actions for today are consideration of one Cully CLC reappointment and a new appointment to the 82nd Avenue CLC.
And one new appointment for the Space CLC.
Next slide.
I want to take a moment to reiterate how different the co-creation process is today compared to the process that led to the development of previous action plans.
The Cully co-creation model served as the blueprint for the other CLCs.
We have built on that model to create a more collaborative process to develop action plans that direct investment priorities.
With regards to the timeline on screen, you can see that each TIF district is on a different point in time.
Cully's district plan was adopted in late '22, and the inaugural CLC was appointed in '23.
The CLC then worked through the action planning process over the course of 2 years.
And in '26, Prosper Portland, the Portland Housing Bureau, and the Cully co-chairs presented the action plan for adoption to this council.
The Cully CLC has now moved into implementation and ongoing oversight.
The district plans for the 3 newer districts were adopted in '24, followed by the appointment of their inaugural CLCs in 2025.
All 3 CLCs are currently in the action planning process, and we anticipate bringing their action plans to council for consideration in '27.
Eric Zimmerman
Thank you.
Next slide.
Cornell Wesley
Now, as you may recall, the district plan sets the long-term vision, goals, and guiding principles for the district.
It also establishes the framework for implementation and determines which projects are legally eligible for TIF resources.
The action plan builds on that foundation but looks at a shorter It's a co-created document that aligns with the overall 30-year district plan while identifying the priorities, investments, and outcomes for that 5-year period.
And because action plans are updated every 5 years until the district closes, we have an opportunity to respond to what's changing on the ground.
That means incorporating evolving community priorities, Lessons learned from previous investments and changing market conditions as we move forward.
Next slide.
The CLCs are intentionally structured to bring together a broad range of experiences and perspectives to help guide the work of each TIF district.
These members work in co-creation with Prosper Portland and PHB staff to advise decision makers, help set priorities and investments, and provide oversight as the district plan is implemented.
Thank you.
And what makes this model particularly valuable is the range of perspectives members bring to the table.
To be eligible to become a CLC member, a person must self-attest to live, work, worship, have children enrolled in school, or have been displaced from within their respective TIF district boundary.
Members are nominated by Prosper Portland and PHB through the mayor we also work to ensure that the CLCs reflect the diversity of the communities they represent, particularly populations that are disproportionately vulnerable to displacement.
And ultimately, it's important that members understand and support the stabilization and inclusive growth goals of their respective TIF plans so that the work stays grounded in the needs of the communities they represent.
Thank you.
In the priorities and values the community has called for.
Next slide.
Prosper Portland and the Portland Housing Bureau co-convened CLC evaluation committees to evaluate and ultimately recommend the 2 candidates to fill the vacancies for 82nd Avenue and Space.
An evaluation committee was not convened for the Cully District as they are reappointing a current CLC member.
Dan Ryan
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Next slide.
Cornell Wesley
Now we turn to highlighting the incredible individuals who have stepped up to volunteer for this important task.
I recognize the full biography and statement of interest is included in the council item, but I do want to provide a few brief highlights for each candidate.
I would like to introduce Renata, who is being recommended for appointment to the 82nd Avenue CLC.
Unfortunately, Renata could not join us today due to a previously scheduled and well-deserved vacation overseas.
However, I'd like to highlight her professional experience in planning and land use and her excitement to learning more about ways to support the 82nd Avenue community.
Next slide.
I'd like to provide context of where these nominations fit within the existing leadership committee.
As you can see, Renata will be filling a single vacancy on the 82nd Avenue CLC roster.
Next slide.
Our next candidate is Victor Rome III.
He is an attorney and a board member of the Columbia Corridor Association, an important stakeholder for the industrial sector within the district.
In his capacity as attorney, Victor has advised a number of TIF districts, and we look forward to having his insight next slide.
As with Renata, Victor is filling a single vacancy on the Space CLC roster.
Next slide.
I'm now pleased to reintroduce Sky Waters, who's also unable to join us this afternoon.
Sky has served on the CLC since its inception and wants to maintain the continuity to ensure the goals, community priorities, and funding allocations identified in the action plan are reflected in the investments during the implementation phase.
We thank Sky for his dedication to this work and his interest in a reappointment.
Next slide.
As you can see, Sky is being reappointed as part of Prosper Portland's set of nominees in Cully.
I would also like to highlight that the Cully CLC has been working for 3+ years on its action plan.
The members of this committee have worked tirelessly to create the plan.
Several members will be leaving the CLC as their terms expire to focus on family, health, or new business ventures.
Of note, the Cully TIF CLC charter allows committee members to stay on a committee past their term expiration and until they have been replaced.
All outgoing members have volunteered to stay through their replacement in January, which is when we'll be bringing new appointments to this body.
Their generosity and commitment will allow the Cully-Tift CLC to continue meeting and conducting work over the next few months without a quorum issue.
Prosper Portland and PHB are running a recruitment process to bring in new members who will carry this work forward.
Thank you.
We will talk about this more in a future session, but I would like to be one of the first to say on behalf of the agency that I thank each and every one of these community members for their time and service in bringing the Cully TIF District's action plan to fruition.
The work is better because you are a part of it.
Next slide.
I will close out with this slide that provides a timeline for upcoming appointments for both the Cully CLC and East 205 vacancies.
Both CLCs are doing their recruitments now and will move into the selection process in the final months of this year.
Together with PHB, we anticipate returning to City Council in January of '27 with a request to approve the next group of nominees.
Next slide.
With this information, Councilors, Prosper Portland requests that the committee recommend Council approval of the proposed nominees.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Director Wesley.
So before we determine if this is just, uh, technical questions or anything else, is there testimony on this one?
Unidentified speaker
No one has signed up.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, so we'll just open it up for councilor, uh, discussion, questions, and, and also questions of the appointees.
I Director Wesley, did you say that the first and third are not present?
Cornell Wesley
That's correct.
Sameer Kanal
Is Victor present?
Okay, I see him.
So just so colleagues may know if they have a question, and I will at some point, so feel free to come up, Victor.
But yeah, we'll go into the queue.
Councilor Smith.
Loretta Smith
Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
Thank you, Director Wesley.
Question, I couldn't tell, particularly with the 82nd, group, I couldn't tell who's in District 1 or District 3 because we border on 82nd Avenue.
So are all those— can you send me something that tells me which one of these appointees or CLC members are in, uh, District 1?
Cornell Wesley
Yes, ma'am.
Make note of that.
Loretta Smith
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Great.
I have a few process questions.
So I guess first thing, you know, we normally, as I mentioned earlier, would have Sky just present if possible for questions.
Not a problem there.
We've done this with reappointments before.
So I have no concern there and I'm grateful that Victor's here and I'll ask you a question in a moment, sir.
The question I had for you, Director Wesley, with relation to the upcoming recruitments.
So it looks like to avoid a quorum issue, both the current folks Folks staying on in Cully and the reappointment help you while the recruitment is underway.
And applications closed 2 days ago, it looks like, from the slides, October 19th.
Cornell Wesley
Yes, sir.
Sameer Kanal
Would you consider that recruitment to have been, to have yielded sufficient applicants?
And by that I mean, like, to give yourself some margin.
You have a good pool?
Yeah, like usually it's 2 to 1 in my experience as a minimum.
Cornell Wesley
I would like to follow up with that 'cause I have not had an opportunity to see the current pool given that it just closed.
So I will reserve my answer to that if you allow me the latitude to follow up.
Sameer Kanal
Yeah, just to put a— that's perfectly fine.
Just to put a finer point on it, if it's not sufficiently large, I would encourage you to consider reopening.
Cornell Wesley
Yes, sir.
Sameer Kanal
Councilor Pirtle-Guiney and I were at an event in Cully recently.
We got a gate opened on the west side of Sacagawea Park, and I'm grateful to the Parks Bureau for getting that done.
And there were a lot of community members there and they weren't talking about just the gate.
They were talking about anything related to Cully.
And some questions came up about this particular group and its ability to reach.
I think that, I think one of the reasons for the questions were the size of it right now, its ability to reach beyond just the current members who are obviously able to give their own opinion as representatives of the area, but also to kind of be a conduit for other folks to get in.
So I have an interest in ensuring that there's, you know, as broad a group as possible of members to try and ensure that all of Cully's able to give their voice to that.
Unidentified speaker
You have our commitment to make sure what comes before you is the best that that community has presented itself to be in terms of the applicant pool.
We'll make sure it's a robust pool.
Sameer Kanal
Thanks.
And then Victor, I saw in your bio that you had worked on downtown Vancouver redevelopment.
Unidentified speaker
That's correct.
I represent the Port of Vancouver in connection with their tax increment financing.
Sameer Kanal
And I'm curious, because that's been a topic that several of us have raised, is the success of the downtown revitalization and the waterfront development in Vancouver.
And I'm curious for you if there's anything that you find or that you could let us know 'Cause obviously that's waterfront, it's a slightly different vibe of a location than Cully, which obviously has, but is not exclusively waterfront.
So just wanted to get an idea from you what you find relevant of that experience to this TIF.
Unidentified speaker
I think the primary thing that's relevant is taking advice from the community and really putting that to work.
There was a lot of work over about a decade before the Port of Vancouver put its tax increment financing financing in place, and that was in part because tax increment financing didn't exist in Washington State at that point.
So there was some lobbying as well at the state level to try and get that tool in the toolbox.
But there was a lot of work in that, in all of those years preceding even having the tool, of reaching out to the community and understanding what the community wanted to prioritize if TIF became a possibility.
And that led to— The TIF was approved in 2010.
The work that's being done on Terminal 1 in particular.
Again, it's ultimately supposed to be a marketplace for the community, and then there's also trails and those sorts of things.
But that all came from community involvement and listening to the community, and that's where the CLC process here in Portland is very important in listening to community members and trying to incorporate their desires into the use of the TIF proceeds.
Sameer Kanal
And in that role, or in that, I guess, project, liaising with consistent leadership at, you know, here we have Prospera and the city.
There it was just the mayor, right?
And the city government.
Unidentified speaker
Well, again, just to clarify, it was actually the port, right?
So it was the Port Commission.
So you have 3 commissioners that were on the port that were the leaders at private.
And there was a turnover in over this 10 years.
Of who the people were on that committee.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, you're going exactly what I was asking for because I know on the city side over there that their former mayor Pollard was a very big proponent of this work.
And so may he rest in peace.
And I appreciate that you have that experience to bring to this.
I see Vice Chair Ryan is in the queue.
Dan Ryan
Thank you, Chair.
Victor, thanks for being here.
I actually wanted to call out, it's great that you've represent the Columbia Corridor Association, is that right?
Unidentified speaker
Yes, that's correct.
Dan Ryan
Yeah, that's important for especially that area.
So, and I do think it's great that you have the experience of the success over in Vancouver.
I know the railroad movement took a long time over there.
So that's really been the story in Vancouver was how long it took to get the railroads to budge, if you will.
Unidentified speaker
Yeah, I was involved in some of the financing related to that as well.
So it was, yeah, it was a huge task.
It's great that you have that life experience.
Dan Ryan
I tend to ask just a quick question to anyone that's coming on to serve, and what are a couple action items that you think would help spur, ignite business growth in that area of Parkrose, Sumner?
Unidentified speaker
Uh, I mean, it's difficult.
I think some of it is going to come down to— because I also kind of live in the area further down Sandy— is how redevelopment of Sandy can be spurred and trying to encourage people to maybe that are property owners on some of these properties that aren't as well cared for to come to the table and be able to revitalize and find alternative uses for some of those properties.
I think that's going to be important in the long run.
Dan Ryan
Okay, I like that.
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you.
I forgot one question, which was our last appointee would it be possible for you to work with the council president's office when scheduling to ensure they can— Renata can be present if there's questions at the full council?
Unidentified speaker
Absolutely.
Dan Ryan
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Colleagues, Councilor Smith, I think that's a legacy hand.
Loretta Smith
Yes, sir.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, thank you.
Are there any other people in the queue?
Seeing none, we will need a motion.
It is one full report, so this for all 3 appointees.
Can we have a motion to refer this to the full council with the do pass recommendation?
Dan Ryan
So moved.
Sameer Kanal
Moved by Councilor Ryan, seconded by Councilor Green.
Is there any other discussion before we move to a vote?
Seeing none, Diego, will you please call the roll?
Unidentified speaker
Thank you.
Clark?
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Green?
Mitch Green
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Avalos?
Candace Avalos
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Dunphy?
Oh, sorry, absent.
Smith?
Loretta Smith
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Pirtle-Guiney?
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Aye.
Dan Ryan
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Aye.
Nancy Thorington
Aye.
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Steve Novick
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
With 10 ayes and 2 absent, the motion carries.
And the report, document number 2026-3G, Sorry, 2026-355 moves to City Council with the recommendation it be accepted.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Director Wesley.
Thank you, Renata, Victor, and Sky, for your willingness to serve, or I guess continue serving in Sky's case.
And we'll look forward to getting that on a full council agenda.
With that, Diego, can you please call items 4 and 5 together?
Unidentified speaker
Item 4, document number 2026-341, Appoint Thomas Kemper and Brian Harvey to the Home Forward Board of Commissioners for terms to expire October 27th, 2030.
Item 5, document number 2026-342, appoint Yuria Edwards to the Home Forward Board of Commissioners for a term to expire August 7th, 2028.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you.
And we have Deputy City Administrator Donny Oliveira, and there may be other presenters on some of this, and I'll let you introduce them.
But take it away, DC Oliveira.
Donnie Oliveira
Great, thank you, Chair.
Uh, good afternoon, Council.
Donnie Oliveira, for the record.
I'm going to be pinch-hitting here and stepping up to, um, present the, the full package in 2 separate presentations.
I'm joined, uh, by, uh, Gresham Council President, uh, Kathy Keithley and, uh, Chair of Home Forward Board, Jenny Kim.
But let's go ahead and start the slide, and we're starting with the Gresham representative first, just for council's, um, process recognition.
All right, next slide please.
Okay, so, uh, first, um, agenda item is the recommendation of the gresham appointee to the Home Forward board.
We're going to cover briefly about Home Forward, uh, talk about the commissioner appointment, um, and then discuss the, the appointee themselves.
And, uh, is the council president on?
Yes, she is.
Hi, nice to see you.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you.
So we'll run through this real quick.
Next slide, please.
Okay, so real quick, I just wanted to— just for the public's perspective, just ensuring that people understand that Home Forward is the public housing authority for the entire county of Multnomah and is the largest provider of affordable housing for the city, county, and in the state.
Their mission is to create a better community by providing housing stability through affordable housing development, Housing choice expansion, services that support quality of life, and of course they advocate for— to improve local and national housing systems.
And we have some numbers up there for your background.
Next slide, please.
Going, please.
So for the Gresham appointments, before we get into that, just as a reminder, there are 9 members of the Home Forward Board of Commissioners.
5 are recommended by the City of Portland.
5.
2 by Multnomah County, and 2 by the City of Gresham.
All the appointees are required to go through Portland City Council for approval, and that's by resolution and intergovernmental agreement.
And that's a situation that's established between the 2 cities and the county.
Next slide, please.
And just for a process perspective, the mayor of Gresham and their city council coordinate with the city manager to make a recommendation on appointments.
Which is then approved by this body right here.
And, uh, Council President Keithley, does— do you want to share, um, a little bit about your process here, please?
Unidentified speaker
Sure.
Um, the— obviously the appointment to the board is a particularly important role for the City of Gresham because Home Forward success is Gresham success.
So we're very deeply committed to making sure that we have somebody that represents So we did our due diligence.
We really found a person who has both experience with housing currently on our— one of our housing committees.
He serves as chair on that committee, but he also has lived experience in this community.
So we just feel like he's a great appointee for this board, and we look forward to working with him.
Councilmember Herbold.
Donnie Oliveira
Great, thank you so much.
And with that, next slide please, and the next.
We are pleased to recommend Uriah Edmonds, who's in chambers with us today, for the appointment as recommended by the City of Gresham.
And as you can see here, he's a community leader in Gresham and a business owner.
He served on the City of Gresham's Community Development and Housing Subcommittee, which is material to this topic.
Of course, he's been described as analytical and collaborative, and has lived experience growing up in subsidized housing, and intends to use that and with public service experience to support Home Forward as a board member.
Just for context, he'll be serving a seat that would end that term would end in August of 2028.
And so, as I said, your eyes in the room if you have questions for him.
And councilors, with that, that is the first recommendation for the Home Forward board, the City of Gresham seat.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you.
I, I wanted to just first make a housekeeping note.
When it was read out loud earlier and when it was originally filed, the document had Mr. Edmonds' name in error as Edwards instead of Edmonds.
I believe Edmonds is the correct last name.
That has been updated.
We did get that corrected, and I just apologize for the error and just wanted to make sure that was on the record, um, that, that the person that is being considered for appointment today is named Uriah Edmonds.
Um, yeah, um, is this a good place to, to open up the conversation before we—.
Donnie Oliveira
Please.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, colleagues, would you like to— we do have testimony on this one, so we're going to do, um, any, uh, questions of the appointees and, um, and other just kind of process questions before we go to To testimony?
Yeah, technical questions.
And then we will do this again on the other report and then open up testimony together, just as a process note.
Dan Ryan
Vice Chair Ryan.
Yes, quick question.
How many properties do we have in Gresham?
Donnie Oliveira
Oh, that is a great question, Councilor.
I'm gonna have to get some staff to help me back that up.
So one second.
I'll have to get back to council.
We're working on it.
Unidentified speaker
Okay.
Dan Ryan
We've been focusing so much on the ones closer to Portland, especially in District 2, but it's helpful to know.
Unidentified speaker
Thanks.
Candace Avalos
Can I come up?
Olivia Clark
Yeah.
Unidentified speaker
Oh yeah, please.
Mitch Green
Yeah, please.
Dan Ryan
Yeah.
I love it when the appointees might know the answer.
Yeah.
Uriah Edmonds
Uh, I do know that we have one in completion or working on completion right now.
It's a $60 million, 60-unit And I also know a couple of others.
I think Kathy, who's on, might be able to maybe speak on that too.
But I do know the big one right in our backyard is, you know, right there in the heart of our city is being completed right now.
Dan Ryan
And then there's vouchers and some other—.
Uriah Edmonds
The vouchers, yes.
There's quite a few of the voucher systems within—.
Dan Ryan
That's more of the history, but now there's a new one, a new building.
Sameer Kanal
Yes.
Eric Zimmerman
Okay.
Donnie Oliveira
Yep.
Councilor, there are 12—.
Sameer Kanal
Introduce yourself for the record.
Unidentified speaker
Sorry.
Uriah Edmonds
Oh, I'm sorry.
Uriah Edmonds.
Thank you.
Yeah, the appointee for Gresham.
Unidentified speaker
Thank you.
Dan Ryan
Sorry, go for it, DCA Oliver.
Donnie Oliveira
Sorry, there's 12 active properties in Gresham.
Unidentified speaker
Is that—.
Dan Ryan
Do you count like if there's vouchers in a building as one of the properties?
Donnie Oliveira
Those are just the ones listed under Home Forward's purview.
Sameer Kanal
Okay.
Dan Ryan
That's a yes.
Unidentified speaker
Okay.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, Councilor Murillo followed by Councilor Novick.
Yeah, Chair, is this the right time to just ask the questions that we had prepared for these folks, or should we hold off on that after testimony?
You can ask questions of Mr. Edmonds.
We're going to get to the other 2 in a moment.
So if you have— if you want to wait and ask all 3 together after those 2 have been introduced, if they're the same questions, feel free as well.
Angelita Morillo
Oh, gotcha.
Okay, I'm sorry.
Sameer Kanal
I will take myself out of the queue for now.
Angelita Morillo
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, and I see everyone else in the queue has done the same, uh, so I, uh, I will ask you to stay around just in case there are questions for you and then, um, pass it back to DCA Oliveira for our other 2 proposed nominees.
Donnie Oliveira
Great, thank you.
So now we're going to pivot to the, um, the 2 representatives that would, um, join on behalf of the City of Portland.
All right, next slide, please.
And next slide.
And again, please.
Thank you.
Um, so, uh, same slide as the Gresham deck, but I really wanted to take a moment to emphasize on this slide, uh, there are 5 seats for the City of Portland, one of which must be a Home Forward resident, and that's one of the seats that we're filling, uh, today.
And all the information is consistent.
The last slide, please.
So this is, I think, an important detail to share for, for this group related to the appointment process for Portland.
So in the past, Home Forward staff have led the recruitment and made recommendations or suggested potential appointees to the commissioner in charge.
And that was in the past, of course, former government or the mayor for consideration, then ultimately going to council for approval.
For the 2 appointees before you today, Those— thanks.
Those 2, in concert with Home Forward but largely led by the mayor, were selected and made as recommendations to you all.
But going forward, the Home Forward board will be partnering with the city on developing a nomination process for Portland's 5 seats that will be overseen by a nomination committee made up of key stakeholders.
So we've been working with the Home Forward board chair, Jenny Kim, on outlining that process.
Thank you.
We want to be a partner at the table to ensure that we have a transparent process that is vetted with a variety of stakeholders that would ultimately make a recommendation of potential nominees to the mayor for his ultimate selection to you all.
But that's going to be the process after these 2 appointees.
And we'll also acknowledge the council president from Gresham alluded to this, but it's important to fill these seats as soon as possible because we are running up against quorum issues at Home Forward.
And so getting these seats filled is timely.
And with that, we'll start to discuss the appointees, I believe.
Next slide, please.
The first person I'm pleased to welcome is Brian Harvey.
He has been a Homestead resident since 2013.
He has been active as a tenant in his place of residence.
He's been a part of the tenants union in and join there in the spring of 2025.
He's co-chaired the Pearl District Neighborhood Association Affordable Housing Committee, and he's very keen to serve on the board to represent his fellow tenants.
And his term would be a 4-year term that would expire in 2030.
Next slide, please.
Also for your consideration is Thomas Kemper.
Thomas has had a very active role in Oregon's housing ecosystem He's eager to provide his expertise related to affordable housing and addressing the housing crisis in Portland.
He too would be serving a 4-year term.
And we have Brian joining us online, and Thomas is in chambers if you all have questions for them.
And that wraps our presentation of these 2 individuals.
Sameer Kanal
Great.
Thank you everybody for being here as well.
Can I just get a quick clarification?
It's slide 8.
Donnie Oliveira
Oh, sure.
Sameer Kanal
You were saying That there's gonna be a process for all 5 of the Portland appointees?
Donnie Oliveira
Going forward, in the event there's another Portland seat that becomes available.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, there's not a planned vacancy coming up?
Donnie Oliveira
Not currently.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, thank you for that.
And I should— I'm remiss for not previously thanking Council President Keithley for being here as well.
I really appreciate it.
Always nice to have our neighbors joining us.
Colleagues, are there any other questions?
Now would be the time to ask questions of the appointees.
And I'll go to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney first.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
There we go.
Thank you, Chair, and I am sorry to not be in the room with you all today.
I do have a couple of questions for the nominees.
I'll start with Mr. Harvey.
Um, first of all, thank you for all the work that you have already done to in my district on the east side of the river in Northeast Portland, there are a number of larger towers that are really struggling, and I am wondering how you would, as a tenant representative on the board, plan to reach out to tenants in other buildings, some of which don't have their own organizations, don't have tenant unions, and have really struggled to organize themselves.
Thank you.
Unidentified speaker
Well, what I'd say, Councilor, is that if you have the contact information for anybody in those buildings and somebody can actually get me inside the building, that's the first step.
So the first step is to get into the building or to make contact with an initial person, and then that person can make sure that I'm able to get into the building.
Okay.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
And you're willing to put in that work to, to make some of those connections?
Unidentified speaker
I am.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Great.
Do you see the role that you would be stepping into, the tenant representative role, as different from the role of other board members on Home Forward?
And if so, how?
Or do you see it really as the same job as the, the other board members have in overseeing the operations of the organization?
I think it's a little bit different.
Unidentified speaker
So I think that it is different.
It requires that I continue to advocate for tenants, at least as a class.
And, you know, the other, the other board members are professionals, and it's my job to kind of bring the tenant perspective into the boardroom.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Do you foresee any challenges doing and getting the attention of Home Forward or other board members as the sole person in that role?
Unidentified speaker
Say that again, sorry.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
I apologize.
Do you foresee any challenges being able to do that as the sole person in this role and being able to get the attention of the other board members or of the Home Forward leadership at the board meetings?
Unidentified speaker
So I think that, I think that, you know, I, I'm sorry, I have the organizing experience where I'll be able to represent the tenant voice in the room.
Sameer Kanal
And, you know, I'm sorry, Looks like we got a disconnection here.
Unidentified speaker
Um, challenges.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Hi, Councilor.
Why don't I ask my question of Mr. Kemper, if that's all right with you?
And I, uh, we'll see if Mr.
Heavy makes it back.
Sameer Kanal
Yeah, while we get him reconnected, I think he might have had a battery die or something on his computer.
So yeah, please go ahead, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.
Tom Kemper
Thank you.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Mr. Kemper, thank you for being there today.
I'm sorry I'm not in the room with you.
I noticed in your resume that you have served as an executive director for a housing organization, so you've presumably had a board that you were working with before, and I am wondering if you can speak to how hands-on or how hands-off I think it depends much—.
Tom Kemper
Well, first of all, my name is Tom Kemper, for the record.
Um, I think it depends in much part upon, um, how well management is actually performing.
I think it's a good question.
I think it's worth discussing as to how involved the board gets.
Certainly my intent is to get very involved in the operations of Home Forward.
One of the first things that I want to do is that I know that there are a number of troubled properties.
I would like to personally go spend time at those institutions and really try to, you know, talk to onsite management, talk to tenants, And to get a better understanding about what the issues are and sort of how to create solutions to the problems that those properties are experiencing.
So my plan is to be very involved.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Thank you very much for that answer.
And I actually think you alluded to your answer to my second question, which is what do you think the most pressing challenges are for Home Forward right now, and what do you see as the role of the board in ensuring that those challenges are addressed?
Tom Kemper
Well, I think the, the organization is experiencing, um, some significant financial challenges, uh, in part due to, you know, operational issues that they're experiencing.
Um, you know, there's security issues, there's crime issues, there's there's issues with their voucher management, their voucher program, and I think you just have to get into those specific issues, get into the nuts and bolts and details, and really identify specifically what the problems are and then figure out solutions to those problems.
Does that answer that question?
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
It does.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for those answers.
I look forward to supporting you in your nomination to the board today, and I just hope that you feel empowered to do that hands-on work that you are referring to and to being a hands-on board member.
And if there's anything that we as councilors can do to help you navigate some of the buildings you might want to take a look at in our district, Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you.
Councilor Morillo, followed by Councilor Novick.
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you everyone for being here today.
Sorry, I am homesick, but I figure you would rather not me get everybody in chambers sick.
And my question is for Mr. Kemper.
The state has estimated that we need— that Portland needs around 15,000 units that are between 0 and 60% AMI.
How do you think Home Forward and the broader system of affordable housing could get to that goal?
Tom Kemper
Well, in my experience, and, you know, I've been involved in the industry for almost 40 years.
Unfortunately, every time you develop a project, it fundamentally comes back to finding the funds to build projects.
And so I think, you know, first and foremost, it's a commitment to appropriately funding the expansion of the parks.
Thank you.
Of the inventory of housing.
And part of that, I think, relates to really efficiently operating housing because, you know, part of the problem is that if you have properties that are not performing well and are creating negative cash flow against the organization's operational cash flows, You know, it really impedes an organization's ability to further expand their portfolio.
And I think, as a matter of fact, I think Home Forward has done a pretty good job of expanding housing.
I think they've, you know, most of the funding comes from Oregon Housing and Community Services, and I think they've done a good job of creating a relationship with that organization.
And continually, you know, generating a stream of funding that supports the expansion of their housing portfolio.
But I think ultimately it's money, unfortunately.
And so it's gonna be the city's commitment and the state's commitment and Metro's commitment to continue funding the, you know, the gap funding that's necessary.
Thank you.
Angelita Morillo
Gotcha.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you for that answer.
Um, I think I had a follow-up, but I think you've answered that as, uh, as you were speaking about it.
So thank you for that.
Um, appreciate your time.
Thank you, Councilor Morillo.
Councilor Novick, followed by Green.
Steve Novick
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This question is for all the nominees.
It's kind of the obvious one.
I assume that everybody read the story in the Oregonian a few weeks ago by Jonathan Bach.
Mysterious deaths, violence, drugs haunt largest apartment complex managed by Portland Housing Authority.
I'm just curious, um, how, if at all, will the stories in that article— do they affect how you look at Home Forward itself and how they might affect how you go about your, uh, business in this role?
Tom Kemper
Can I go first?
Uriah Edmonds
Absolutely.
Tom Kemper
I was stunned by that article, and I think what it made me believe is that it would've been the first property that I'd want to go visit and really talk to, you know, tenants, onsite management, management staff, and really try to understand, you know, sort of what the facts really are.
It was a little concerning to me that they weren't able to immediately evict that person.
And that would've been the first question that I had is just that, you know, why were we slow in acting on that?
And I know that, you know, we've got, you know, you have to have, there are obvious protections against tenant evictions, but I think that in situations like that, when—.
Yeah.
You know, you, you, that has such an impact on, on the community that, that, um, um, that, that those tenants exist in.
I've been in this business for a long time.
I've, I've, I've participated in the development of like over 10,000 apartment units.
Most of that was affordable housing.
And the first thing that I learned was when something goes down in a project, It's really important to address the issues because the events like that really impact the community.
And those kind of things can multiply quickly and create more and more problems.
And so it's very important to act quickly and carefully and deal with them really effectively.
And so I have to say that upon my appointment, one of that's— that is one of the first things I want to do is go visit that property.
Thank you.
And talk to, to Home Forward people about how they reacted and how we can do better in those kinds of instances.
Uriah Edmonds
Well, I, I mean, he's, he's very right.
I think the one thing I've really looked at through all this is It's become evident that there are 2 avenues of affordable housing now, and that is the actual providing of the housing, and then it's the services.
It's the ability to come to the people where they're at and what they need in addition from housing, right?
And I think the challenge you have is HomeForward needs to be a really good landlord and needs to be a good landlord first.
The properties need to be able to be developed correctly, and they need to be managed correctly.
And I think when I'm reading through that, I go, okay, how— what are the— what are the tools in place to make this a safe community for the tenants and a safe place for these people?
Um, and I would want to come at it from a, how are we doing this as a landlord-based service first, and then address those wraparound services that are becoming a necessity within some of these affordable housing units and how are we providing those or do better with that.
So I think that's kind of what I took from that article.
Steve Novick
This is a totally unfair question, but I mean, in the balance between keeping people housed or evicting them because they're causing problems for other tenants, how would you go about— I mean, how would you suggest that the organization think about that balance, which should Should the tie go to keeping the tenant in, or should the tie go to protecting the other tenants?
Uriah Edmonds
It's a really hard one, right?
I think accountability means something though, and I think that when you look at accountability, you have to be compassionate, but you have to also say, what is the greater good of all these other tenants that are in this building?
I think that But when you have things like non-eviction over 6 months or 9 months for either unpaid rents or infractions that are caused, that's not, that's not showing compassion or accountability to those people.
So in my opinion, I think you start with accountability to the folks who are causing those problems in those properties and letting the other tenants feel like they have a safe home.
Tom Kemper
I would second that response.
One of the first lessons that I learned in operating a project was, is that if you let somebody slide on the rules, on rent or rules, then other people feel like they can do that too.
And so it, you know, so if you let infractions occur without, Without sanctions, all you do is increase that kind of behavior.
So I would totally agree that the community really does have to come first.
And that doesn't mean that you can't be compassionate about dealing with people.
And I think your comment about services is very well taken.
I think that particularly when the housing authority has, by virtue of its financing commitments, agreed to take on tenants who have real problems, you have to supply the appropriate services to help deal with those problems.
And so it's a real— It's a real challenge.
Conundrum, but I think in balance, you've got to weigh the committee's or the community's importance before the individual.
Uriah Edmonds
I would just add that I think one of the complexes sat at 50% capacity, right, for a long time.
And I think that's also people that aren't feeling like they want to move into a property knowing that there's there's problems there, and that then defeats the purpose of building more units to just sit at 50% capacity.
Steve Novick
Thank you both very much.
Sameer Kanal
All right, I see Councilor Green, and then Councilor Ryan is next in the queue.
Mitch Green
Thank you so much for making time today to talk to us and to serve in this way.
It's notable.
I have one question for every candidate, and I've got one specific question for Mr. Harvey.
But just broadly speaking, can you describe the problems that face the affordable housing sector as a whole?
Do you think it's one single causal source, or do you think it's a basket of issues?
And if it's a basket of issues, can you describe what those basket of issues are?
Tom Kemper
Do you want me to go first?
Yes.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Good point.
Yes.
Uh, well, I think— I don't think there's one issue.
I think there is— it's a, it's a basket.
I think, um, uh, first of all, I think, um, the financial commitments that Home Forward takes on by agreeing to build and operate affordable housing today, they agree to take on tenants that have significant problems— mental health problems, drug problems.
And with that, you know, it takes a lot of services to sort of work with that kind of population.
So I think that's one issue.
Is sort of the, the, the tenants who come with, with, with baggage, if you will, um, that have, that have issues that need help.
Um, second, I think there's, there's real, there's real concerns about crime, uh, drug dealing, uh, physical— I mean, I've, I've read stories about site managers getting beat up by tenants.
I mean, so that's, that's a real concern.
Uh, so I mean, I don't It raises the whole issue of security and how do you deal with that.
And so I think, so that's part of it.
So I think those, and then there's the basic affordability issue.
People don't make enough money to sort of afford housing in Portland.
And so I think without the appropriate Be it voucher or other rent kind of subsidy, it's difficult for people to afford to live even in affordable housing these days.
You know, today affordable housing rents are getting close to like 60% AMI rents are close to market.
So, you know, and if a developer or the housing authority has proformed their property based on getting Section 42 rents and they're not getting them, you know, it creates real financial problems for the organization to generate enough cash flow.
So I think there's— that's just a couple, you know, 3 of the problems that I see that exist in trying to, you know, provide affordable housing in Portland, Oregon.
Loretta Smith
Thank you.
Mitch Green
I appreciate that response very much.
Uriah Edmonds
I would just go back to the wraparound services aspect, right?
I mean, if you look at historically, housing authorities were just housing, right?
That they were built to build houses, manage properties, develop properties.
They were not built to be a social services aspect, right?
They were not built to be that way.
So there's a transformative process that has to happen, right?
We now have to start identifying those wraparound services, whether that be mental health, addiction, job placement, career development, whatever that might be.
Home Forward has to start pushing into those directions using other community partners to help create those avenues for those tenants.
And so I think that's something that's going to continue to be a pushing process for these Housing First programs.
Thank you.
And I think that's going to be important.
So I think when you say what are the multitude of problems, it really comes down to that, that they have to be able to partner with the community partners and finding ways to have their tenants being supported.
Mitch Green
Thank you.
Tom Kemper
And there's got to be enough money to support the organizations that do provide the services.
Unidentified speaker
That's fair.
Mitch Green
Yeah, thank you.
And Mr. Harvey, did you have some thoughts on If the problems facing, you know, HomeForward and any other of the sort of affordable housing providers are a single source, single story problem, or are they sort of a basket of problems?
Unidentified speaker
Could you expand on that?
Sorry.
Mitch Green
Yeah, I think where I'm going with this is there's been a lot of reporting lately, or headlines even, that sort of try to reduce it to one single cause.
That cause being that there's a lot of crime, and no question some of these units have a rampant crime issue.
But then that also ignores the market dynamic, which is the fact that at the 60% AMI level, the market sector is just as affordable, or in some cases more affordable, than the regulated unit.
And so there's a difficulty in attracting tenants for a multitude of reasons.
And I guess what I'm trying to hear is a recognition as a commissioner that the problems facing Home Forward are complex, are coming from different social sort of breakdowns in the system, as it were, and require complicated and sort of evidence-based solutions.
So that's the sort of nature of my question.
Unidentified speaker
No, I do think it's a huge series of interconnected, complex It is, it is not a single problem.
And I apologize, by the way, for leaving earlier.
This is terrifying to me.
This might be the most terrifying experience I've ever had, and I'm just freezing up.
So I am good in person, on the ground, getting into buildings, helping them unionize, helping them reclaim tenant power, and that's what I'm good at.
Thank you.
I'm good at a barbecue at a low-income property.
This terrifies me.
I have no idea how you folks do this.
I would never want to do this.
If I could erase like every video of me from the world, I probably would.
But this is something that you folks are good at.
I'm not good at it.
I can tell you this, I resurrected our tenants union.
Dan Ryan
Yeah.
Unidentified speaker
A year and a half ago, and we have had incredible success that I have not seen from another tenants union in Portland anywhere.
We've had a half dozen instances of getting in the news, sometimes multiple outlets covering us.
And then I was able to spearhead the unionization of 2 nearby Home Forward properties who are now working in a coalition together.
That's completely unprecedented, and I led that effort.
Thank you.
Candace Avalos
That.
Unidentified speaker
And we are now meeting bimonthly with senior officials from Home Forward and from Pinehurst, uh, management, which manages all 3 buildings.
And we have people like the senior portfolio manager from Pinehurst and the director of policy and planning from Home Forward, uh, other staff in the room.
And in real time We are informing them about tenants' priorities, and they are changing their mind, changing their policies, changing what they were about to do based on that feedback.
And I don't feel like I've observed anybody else doing that.
So I would appreciate if, uh, if you gave me a little latitude for— I, I've actually told friends I would pay good money to never be on the local news.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I might not be able to do that after today, but again, this is something that other people are good at.
I could list off my qualifications.
I have notes right here.
I don't know if you read the bio and state of— statement of interest which were circulated to council.
I worked really hard on that.
I really think if you read that, you'd see that I'm incredibly well qualified to be the resident commissioner.
I really am.
Thank you.
And my heart's in the right place and I want this to work.
So if there are any more questions, I'd love to take 'em.
Again, I apologize for this being kind of a nightmare for me, even though it's every day for you.
Sameer Kanal
Brian, thank you so much.
I'm just gonna give you right back.
Sorry, Councilor Green.
You're doing great.
You may not believe that in the moment, but you are.
And I appreciate you being here.
It's not easy for all of us all the time either.
I'll just say that for myself and appreciate you being a part of this.
I know that also what we ask for out of a resident commissioner is often not the same thing that we're asking from everybody else.
I don't personally care if you know a lot about some of the stuff outside of your experience.
That's why we're considering appointing you.
So, and that's what I think people are gonna be thinking about.
I'm gonna pass it back to Jean.
Mitch Green
Could I say something really quickly or Jean?
I just want to say thank you so much, Brian.
And for folks who don't know, Brian has reached out to my office many times over the last 2 years to make me aware of issues in the yards.
This is in my district.
It's a Home Forward property.
He's well trusted among the tenants, and I think he'd be a great addition to the commissioner.
So I want to say thank you for that, and we'll stay engaged.
Unidentified speaker
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
We'll go to Councilor Ryan and then Councilor Smith.
Unidentified speaker
Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
Dan Ryan
Thank you, Chair.
First of all, thank you, Council President Keithley, for being here.
You did a great job of presenting us your selection, Mr. Edmonds.
So now I'm going to kind of ignore you and focus on the other 2.
I really appreciate, Councilor Novick, the questions that you asked.
They were many of the questions that I had.
But just to elaborate a bit, Here's the situation in Portland.
We have high vacancy rate.
We have people in my district that it hasn't just been recent headlines, it's been for the last 5 years I've been hearing people inside the buildings and neighbors next to the buildings equally upset.
So the management of a lot of the properties has been questioned and and I've quite frankly listened to people say they don't feel safe to walk in the hallways of the building they live in.
And I've heard people that are near the buildings say that it's— they were celebrating the fact that a building was opened, and then they soon after have been really disappointed with the way that it's been managed.
So this is a big deal, and I know that you know that.
And it also is a host of complex issues.
Thank you.
And we can't— that's why we're taking these appointments more seriously.
I think I've witnessed us passing them through quicker than we are now doing because I think everyone's aware of the challenges that we're having with vacancy rates.
So I've had people say, how can you make the case to build more housing and ask the taxpayers for more money for more housing when you're not taking care of what you have.
And, um, so you're not going into this with any— you're, you're aware of all of this saying yes to this appointment, correct?
Tom Kemper
Oh yes, that's why I'm here.
Dan Ryan
And I've noticed that in your answers, and I really appreciate that.
I think that you're an excellent candidate because of your life experience, the way you answered Councilor Novick Novick's questions was pleasing to me.
I think it's— the transparency has been challenging for me when I've asked questions, simple questions.
What's the current vacancy rate?
How many people have been behind on rent for how many months?
And again, this isn't to have data to shame.
This is to have information so we know where we are and where we're going.
And we know we need to improve almost in every category.
In your pursuit of this, have you noticed that the organizations providing that kind of readily available data so that you as a commissioner will be able to have a quick assessment of how conditions are going at the time and if you're in fact seeing any improvement?
And if you are seeing improvement, why is that?
Tom Kemper
I'm not sure I understand the question.
Dan Ryan
I'm asking that in pursuit of this, have you I don't know.
I'm just wondering if you've been able to notice if the staff has provided you any updates, fresh, current information that says, here's the vacancy rate as of now, here's the information on how many of our participants are not making rent, here's how long they haven't been making rent.
Just that kind of information that if I was on that commission, I would want to have access to that readily.
Tom Kemper
Those will be the questions that I ask immediately once my appointment is effective.
I, I can't say that I have had access to that information to be able to answer that question.
Dan Ryan
I believe, based on the dialogue you had earlier, that you will ask those questions, and I'm really counting on you to do that because we need more accountability from the people that are appointed to these positions.
Tom Kemper
That's why I stepped up to do this.
Dan Ryan
That was perfect.
Thank you for that statement that you just made.
I always like to remind myself it's a violation of federal fair housing laws to not enforce the lease to one resident, but enforce it with other residents differently.
And so earlier when you said consistency is very important, there's a federal law that says that's very important.
Tom Kemper
It's important to maintain the community.
Dan Ryan
Exactly.
And then there's that element of So I just wanted to make sure we underscored that.
I'm really impressed with what I read, Brian Harvey.
Your statement of interest was incredibly helpful.
Thank you for taking the time to do that.
I think we're at a place where I wish we had more than one tenant representative in the composite.
It's a lot to put on one person to represent all of the units, and you've really drilled down and to lead the effort at your building to form the union, to form those rights.
What will it be like for you to explore the other Home Forward units and get to know other residents?
I assume that's your audience that you really want to be in touch with.
And in this responsibility, it'll go beyond the unit you live in.
So I just want to hear some of your thinking about exploring all the other units.
Yeah.
And checking out their conditions and how you will be able to connect with other tenants and other buildings?
Unidentified speaker
Well, I think the connection will come quite naturally when I'm actually at those properties.
But to remind council, I have helped to unionize about a handful of buildings to this point, and I would love the opportunity.
I mean, one of the things in my notes here is that when I talk about my priorities, Find new ways to collect feedback from residents on an ongoing basis.
I don't think that's something that Home Forward is doing or has made an effort to do.
Every few years there's a reason, whether political or otherwise, where they'll put together a new outreach program.
And, you know, I don't know how they select the buildings.
I don't know, I don't know why they don't do it on an ongoing basis, but I do think that it's important.
Thank you.
I think we need some way to measure resident sentiment and to do it, to do it over time and see how it's shifting so that we can anticipate what is going wrong, what is going right.
And I would welcome— I mean, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney asked me would I actually volunteer my time.
I have dedicated my life to this.
Thank you.
And I continue— I intend to continue to do so.
So yes, I mean, anyone who comes to me and says, can you help me get a tenants union off the ground?
I can do it.
And it's not one linear playbook.
There are a lot of different zigs and zags you might have to take.
But I'm going to tell you, if you want to call someone to come and ensure that a tenants union And have it actually come to fruition and actually be effective and actually engage with management and gain concessions, I am that guy.
Dan Ryan
Thank you.
Um, DC Alavera, maybe you or someone from Home Forward knows the answer to this.
What kind of information does Home Forward ask of their tenants?
How do they get a sense of how they're feeling?
Like, how do they survey the tenants?
'Cause my experience up here is that I would have to listen to anecdotes out in the community, but I couldn't really find it from Home Forward.
Donnie Oliveira
Councilor, if somebody could answer, it would be the Home Forward board chair, Jenny Kim, who's online as well.
Dan Ryan
Oh, hi, Jenny.
Jenny Kim
Hello, good afternoon.
Um, I would say, so I've actually been a chair for Home Forward starting from July of this year, and my understanding from being on board and asking for feedback is that we ask our senior leadership, especially the ED, since Michael Bonaccord has come back as an interim ED, he has been doing a lot of town hall meetings, both in person and virtual.
And Brian, I don't know if you were familiar with the fact that we have been doing that, and we're being a little bit more intentional about doing an outreach so that we have an understanding of properties that are managed by Home Forward as well as properties like The Yard that's managed by outside property management, because the experiences are very different.
Another thing is, I'll just mention that Even though it's not necessarily talking about what has happened in the past, we are currently doing an organizational assessment with a consultant group that is giving us better ideas and suggestions about how we can do better community engagement and do operational performance and making sure that we are being more consistent about outreach and engagement with our jurisdictional partners and our community.
Dan Ryan
Okay, just as we were discussing earlier, Mr. Kemper was answering the questions about wanting to make sure that he had readily available information, a dashboard that he'll be asking for.
I hope that there's as much commitment to provide getting that type of baseline information consistently on how the residents are experiencing their, their livability at the sites.
And, and getting more consistency and transparency about that would be great.
Jenny Kim
Yes, definitely.
That's something that we're all very interested in, and we look forward to having Brian.
We definitely needed that resident commissioner, uh, you know, voice and perspective on the, the leadership team so that we can make sure that we're including that perspective in everything yeah, I will definitely, uh, make sure as a councilor that I'll be seeking that information consistently, um, especially in the properties in District 2.
Dan Ryan
So thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Ryan.
I'm going to go to Councilor Smith, then myself, and then we'll go to public testimony.
We will have an opportunity after testimony to keep discussing.
Councilor Smith.
Candace Avalos
Thank you, Mr.
Jenny Kim
Chair.
Loretta Smith
Thank you so much for bringing this forward, uh, DCA Oliveira.
I know that I know that in these times it's very stressful.
Housing is very stressful across the board, affordability and the whole 9 yards.
And I just want to ask the, um, the folks who are, are trying to be in this position, what do you think is the single most important, um, attribute that you should have when you're in these kind of, uh, stressful situations?
How do you respond?
Tom Kemper
Ask that again.
I want to make sure I got that right.
Loretta Smith
What, what, what kind of qualities do you think that someone in your position should, should have to deal in these kind of very stressful housing situations?
And you're going to be responsible for sitting on this board, and, uh, everybody's going to want to know when are we going to fill these vacancies, what can we do, how do you, how do you deal in those kind of high-pressure situations?
Tom Kemper
I think probably the greatest attribute would be openness, because, you know, it's always boiling down to tenant versus community in a lot of those situations.
And so it's really— it's getting an understanding of what the real deal is.
And I think you just— it's openness to what the facts are.
Loretta Smith
Getting to the point.
Excellent.
I like that.
Uriah Edmonds
For me, I, I've— I get it told a lot, I ask a lot of questions.
Uh, it's my nature.
I just ask a lot of questions.
So in these stressful opportunities, environments, I, I want to ask, uh, you know, uh, seek to understand kind of mentality, right?
Uh, it kind of goes along the openness line, but asking a lot of questions, because if we don't ask the hard questions, we don't ask the easy questions sometimes I can come off a little interrogating, and I try to be careful with that, but asking a lot of questions because I think that if we're in a room with very passionate leaders like Mr. Kemper or Mr. Harvey, you're going to have a lot of differing opinions and a lot of differing ways to look at things.
So I think asking a lot of questions is important.
Loretta Smith
That's very good.
Uriah Edmonds
That's very good to hear because you won't have a problem I think that that's the very first thing I'd love to ask more questions about, uh, you know.
And you talk about the other thing is it's the board has to make sure the leadership is correct and, uh, and making sure that, you know, the board can, as you know, set kind of the foundation, but they have to have the leadership in place to be able to make those changes.
Loretta Smith
Exactly.
Uriah Edmonds
Absolutely.
Loretta Smith
Thank you so much for your answers.
Unidentified speaker
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Uh, we have one person signed up for public testimony, so I'm actually just gonna wait for myself until after that.
Uh, Diego, could you please call our testifier?
And feel free to stay seated.
I think they're online.
Unidentified speaker
Addie Smith.
Addie is online.
Just need a few seconds to get them in the room.
And Addie, if you can hear us, you may begin your testimony when you're ready.
Addie Smith
Hello, can you hear me?
Unidentified speaker
We can hear you.
Jenny Kim
Thank you.
Addie Smith
Hello, my name is Addie Smith.
Today is Wednesday, October 21st, 2026.
I'm speaking before the Portland City Council Finance and Governance Committee of the Whole meeting.
Today the council will be voting to appoint or Where are the Black people?
Thomas Kemper was a slumlord who worked in affordable housing.
Uriah Edmonds owns Bocelli's Ristorante.
I would like to know if these business owners donated any money to any of the current conservatives on the city council, either currently running for reelection or will be seeking reelection.
Have any Gresham city council members received donations from these business owners?
Councilmember Loretta Smith.
We all know who the conservatives are on the city council, and by now should have read the report on the donor households that donated to a Republican campaign and to city council conservative candidates.
Right now, as it stands, there appears to be only one Black commissioner on Home Forward's board.
That's Damian Hall, and he must be removed along with Jenny Kim, Kathy Keithley, Matthew Gebhardt, Jesse Ledezma, and Brianne Preston.
Thank you.
While the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Office of Inspector General is investigating former HomeForward CEO Ivory Matthews, they should be investing— investigating HomeForward and its Board of Commissioners.
They approved all of the travel and expenses for Ms. Matthews.
It is a mistake to approve these appointments.
I am against it.
I vehemently reject the appointment of Thomas Kemper and Uriah Edmonds.
Second.
I want to read the email that I received from Chair Emeritus Matthew Gebhardt.
Hello, Ms. Smith.
There are no other resignations to report.
The Board of Commissioners has appointed Michael as the interim executive director, and he will be making any other hiring decisions that may be needed.
The board appreciates your offer and will not be appointing you to a position.
Allow me to inform all of you that I have never been asked to be appointed to the board.
Everyone here has allowed Matthew Gebhardt to discriminate against me with that email.
However, I would like to know why I wouldn't be considered or shouldn't be considered.
Is it because I would actually act with competence and actual knowledge?
Is it because I'm actually qualified and have actual experience to be on the board or to be hired to work there?
Is it because you don't like me?
Let's unpack that.
Is it because I wouldn't try to steal or hide money or play the game?
Please allow me to just finish.
I'm gonna go over the 3 minutes.
Please.
Sameer Kanal
You have 30 seconds.
Addie Smith
Or is it because I will not— is it because I will not know where the bodies are buried and keep it a secret?
What's my disqualifier?
Is it because I'm a Black woman?
Is it because I'm outspoken?
Someone email me and tell me what it is.
Is it because I know matter of fact that Ian Davey should be terminated and Michael Bonocore never should have been hired to come back?
He lacks the knowledge, experience, qualify— and qualifications.
Matthew Gebhardt stepped down from the board chair after I emailed the board and the administrators about his email to me.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you for testifying.
Thank you.
Unidentified speaker
That concludes testimony.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you.
We're going to reopen the queue.
I know Councilor Koyama Lane has waited, so I'll go you and then myself.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you everyone for being here today.
Um, it's been great to hear from you and to learn more about your work.
I'm wondering if any of you want to share how you envision working with us on council.
What would that look like?
What's the best form of communication with the board?
And if you have any thoughts around that, and if there are ways that you think council can be engaging more or better.
Uriah Edmonds
Do you mind if I go first this time?
You okay?
All right, thank you.
Um, I think that, you know, there's, there's kind of processes in place for a reason to try to make sure communication stays valid between groups.
And I think a, a strong chair of a board should be able to help those communications, uh, just that way you're not getting a lot of cross-dialogue, right?
And I think that's really important that your, your chair kind of be that focal point.
But I'm always open to sit down for lunches and coffees and just really talk because I think openness is what's going to help us get through a lot of these other challenges that exist from everything.
But I would say that it needs to start with a chair, a strong chair position that gives you those communications.
Tom Kemper
I'm not sure how to respond to that.
I hadn't really thought about it.
I'd be open to any sort of dialogue or mechanism.
I know that there's— that the mayor's creating a task force to attack the housing issue, and maybe that's the right vehicle for dialogue.
But I mean, I'd be totally open to ongoing interaction with any councilor who wants to know what I'm thinking or experiencing as a board member.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
And I didn't have like a right answer in my mind or anything.
I'm really just wondering.
People do bring questions to us about Home Forward, and sometimes I feel like I wish I knew more and had more context chair Kim, do you want to share anything?
You don't have to.
Jenny Kim
I would say we are kind of rebuilding those relationships.
You know, it's been really wonderful to work with DCA Oliveira and with Mayor Wilson, and we're hoping that if we can have more of a full board worth that we have an opportunity to set up a future meeting with the council so we can have more discussions, and we're happy to share any information, talk about what we're doing, and also opportunity to explore potential partnerships and support that we can get from the city as well too, because our success definitely depends a lot on partnerships with the city and the county.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
And currently, are there recurring meetings that are scheduled with Council President or Mayor, or are those set up kind of one at a time?
Jenny Kim
For now, um, we have— it hasn't been like regular cadence.
We do have a regular meeting set up with, like, for example, our labor union folks, and that has been established.
But we're trying to currently figure out what I think that makes sense, especially since we're so under— I guess we, you know, we don't have a full quorum or the full body of the commissioners right now, so we're a little stretched thin.
You know, the fact that we are volunteer commissioners and most of us have day jobs, we're trying to do what we can.
But we have had meetings with mayor, have done some property tours together, and have We've had, I would say, at least 1 or 2 meetings a month so far with the city and representative.
Olivia Clark
Okay.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Thank you for sharing that.
And it sounds like once this board kind of gets its footing, that there's a chance to think about what makes the most sense and think about how council can be engaging and supportive.
And is, is Brian still on here?
Unidentified speaker
Yeah.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
I just wanted to say to Brian, I feel like it's very brave for you to share how you were And when I won 2 years ago, I was literally teaching in a 3rd grade classroom.
And being on this dais made me feel sick to my stomach and I hated talking.
I still don't love it.
But just want you to know that, like, that's part of why we need you here.
We need people that maybe aren't always in these spaces or don't, like, feel super comfortable or necessarily even, like, want the spotlight or want to be talking into the microphone all the time.
So please know that you are—.
Councilor Smith.
Your background and what you're bringing is really valuable.
And also know at the end of the day, like, no one's watching this really.
It's my mom, like, on YouTube.
Like, it's— don't worry about it.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Doing great.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Koyama Lane.
I'm next in the queue.
So I'm gonna just get this out of the way because I think it may help frame other questions.
I have no intention of of having any concern around the 3 particular nominees.
For several, first with Mr. Edmonds, your qualifications, but also the fact that I think our IGA talks about, you know, we're effectively making sure there's no issue with Gresham's nomination.
I wanna honor that IGA as well.
But even otherwise, I agree.
With our 2 Portland representatives, I think it's important for us to exercise a little bit more assessment discretion and things like that.
And I'll just note, we, you know, when there was a leadership change over at Home Forward, there were colleagues of ours, including colleagues who are here and colleagues that are not, who talked about making larger-scale changes to the Home Forward board.
Not looking, not waiting for attrition, but actually actively going in and making changes.
You've heard that referenced earlier today as well.
And I spoke to, I spoke to Interim Director Bonaccor about it, and it helped me get an understanding of what the situation was and how leadership change is best able to happen.
I'm disappointed that he's not here.
Can you speak to why we're hearing from the city side and not from Home Forward's leadership?
Donnie Oliveira
Thanks for the question, Chair.
Well, first, the board, the Home Forward board chair is here, And given that these appointments— well, one, Council President Keithley's here from Bridgeton to represent that appointment.
And then essentially on behalf of the mayor, I'm here representing the 2 Portland appointments.
As a reminder, the mayor makes these recommendations to you all, not the ED of Home Forward.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, that makes sense.
We have kind of used these appointments at council in the last yeah.
Over the last, you know, year and 9 months as sort of a soft oversight opportunity for the things that are being appointed to.
That opportunity is not really present today.
And so you will notice in my chair's update that Home Forward has been added back to the list that it had been removed from of potential oversight topics.
So I just want to flag that for everybody, that that's something that I think needs to happen at this point.
I, again, am disappointed, have a lot of respect for interim Director Bonaccor and want to make sure that that conversation can happen.
I agree.
I can't remember which colleague brought up the idea of having more than one resident commissioner.
I think that's a great idea.
While—.
Thank you, Vice Chair Ryan.
There was another person who was being considered earlier who's come and testified that would be great.
While there's one, I can't think of a better set of qualifications than what I saw from Brian Harvey.
And I wanted to follow I just wanted to follow up on a question that, um, uh, the response that I got that, that he gave to, um, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney's question earlier.
Um, and it's really a question for, for you, DCA Oliveira.
Um, Brian responded that he would need, in order to help with other unit, other buildings, contact info and the ability to enter the building in order to help tenants fight for themselves in towers that, that he wouldn't otherwise have access to.
Um, can you confirm that Home Forward board members I'd actually like to defer that to the chair.
Donnie Oliveira
Chair Kim, can you answer that question?
Jenny Kim
Yeah, none of us have automatic access to any of the buildings.
We do not have that.
The only access that we have regularly is to our main office building in downtown where we hold our committee meetings and our work sessions.
When we do have an opportunity to visit, it's normally because we have a community event or a local property manager who allows us to access.
So it's not an automatic access.
And I do think that from safety, it's probably better that way, but that's something that we can talk about later.
Tom Kemper
Can we change that?
Sameer Kanal
That sounds like a question for you, Board Chair Kemp.
Jenny Kim
Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure if that's something that we can decide right now.
I would like to have a conversation with our senior leadership team and Michael.
There may be consequences or challenges with logistics.
I'm not a tech person when it comes to FOBs and access, but I can definitely take that back into consideration and discuss it with the board and the leadership Mr.
Sameer Kanal
Kemper, when you were at Central Oregon Housing Authority, did board members have the ability to enter and take a look and do inspections?
Tom Kemper
No.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, that's really concerning to me.
I've been to Louisa Flowers, I've been to Dawson Park Apartments, Hollywood Park, the tower that's mentioned in the article that Councilor Novick mentioned.
These are all in my district that I share with Councilor Ryan and Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.
And the— I want board members to be able to go in and see and talk to the residents.
I'm—.
I don't even know.
It's answers like this that give me pause about making granular changes to board members that I want to support each of your appointments, but it makes me think that maybe we should be having the broader conversation about cleaning house.
That really concerns me when I hear that, that That has nothing to do with your appointments.
It's not going to affect my vote, but I want to at least daylight that issue here.
Donnie Oliveira
Oh, sorry.
I just want to point out Council President Keithley has her hand raised.
Candace Avalos
Oh, great.
Sameer Kanal
Yeah, please.
Unidentified speaker
I just wanted to share that it certainly— I was appointed vice chair along with the new chair, and we have had a lot had of conversations about the role of the vice chair.
Meetings at different, um, uh, units when we do meet.
Um, I don't know that right now it would be for me.
It's been brought up.
We absolutely should consider it as a board.
What would be important is to identify what is exactly the purpose of us.
What are we trying to accomplish by giving access to board members?
As soon as we identify what those I think that as we tried to balance tenants and safety of community members, we also have to balance safety in properties at large.
And every time we add somebody that can just wander in— I'm not saying at all that I'm against looking into that, but I think that that would be the board's purview to really ask questions as, um, Uriah talked about and have clear, definitive objectives and then go about finding out the best way to meet those objectives.
That would be my recommendation.
Sameer Kanal
I appreciate that answer, and I do think it— I'm not looking for a commitment.
I honestly thought the answer was going to be yes when I asked that question and that we'd be moving on in 5 seconds.
I was not prepared to have a long conversation on it from that perspective.
But not looking for a commitment to change a policy here live, but to have the conversation about it makes sense.
And I appreciate the approach there.
I do think that the people that we are entrusting, elected officials are voting to appoint, having access to the common areas makes sense to be able to do site visits and to meet and get to know some of the residents.
Because having met with several residents in several of these buildings, there's some discontent.
Not necessarily with Home Forward directly, but with the The property managers.
And I, because I kind of spent more time on that particular point than I wanted to, I won't dig too deep into this except to say that that's a conversation that should be had on its own about property managers and the selections.
We've mentioned a couple.
I won't, you know, try to embarrass any one company, but there are companies that were mentioned today that have been in this conversation.
That, that have been under, uh, a lot of scrutiny in some buildings and also praised in others because it's, it's actually very much about the company but also the specific staff, obviously, as, as I'm sure you all know.
Um, who— um, Brian, uh, thanks so much again for being here, and I am excited to have you be on this.
I think having someone who, um, can organize Um, will be very helpful for the people, uh, in, in the buildings that I mentioned earlier.
And I guess I'd invite all 3 of you, but in particular our 2 Portland appointees.
Um, I will set up the tours if, if needed because I have managed to get into— and Home Forward management has been very helpful when I've asked, um, to have the ability to go see a, um, a building so I'm happy to do that if you ever need it, and please feel free to reach out to council about it.
But what I'd ask for you both to do is to not accept the idea that speaking to the city means speaking to the elected leaders, because it only means what— like, the explanation in response to Councilor Koyama Lane's question was all about meeting with the mayor.
You should meet with the mayor.
That's good.
Please do.
That's not meeting with the council.
Thank you.
And so I would love it if there was a strategy to speak to, and I don't think it's necessarily your obligation, Mr. Edmonds, to speak to the Portland City Council, but to our Portland representatives to please feel free to reach out.
Please feel a need to reach out because we are hearing a lot from our constituents in a lot of different directions.
The last question I wanted to ask is, Is kind of to Councilor Novick's point about the balances that you strike.
There have been some conversations around the screening criteria, and there was a change made in 2022, I believe, to the screening criteria used by Home Forward that deals kind of in a very narrow way to Councilor Novick's question.
Yeah.
And my question for you is, how would you— what would be your process for evaluating?
I don't care what the outcome is right now, but what would be your process for evaluating if changes should be made to screening criteria?
How would you— what would be your steps for getting to an answer?
Tom Kemper
I think I would be talking to the existing staff about what their recommendations are.
And then I'd go talk to a bunch of property management companies and what they're doing, what they're seeing, what they're recommending, and try to get, you know, kind of a consensus of, of what the, the right answer would be.
But I think you really got to talk to a bunch of people about, you know, what they're experiencing and what they're recommending.
That's how I would approach it.
Sameer Kanal
Thanks.
And I guess same question for you, Brian.
Unidentified speaker
And sorry, I was listening, but what was the question?
Sameer Kanal
You know, the screening criteria that Home Forward uses to determine should somebody be allowed to rent here, should someone be allowed to stay renting here, there's been a lot of talk about whether that change that was made a couple years ago is good, whether there should be further changes.
I'm just curious If someone brought a proposed change to you, how would you evaluate?
What's your— what would you be doing to get to an answer?
Unidentified speaker
Sure.
So there has been some reporting.
I think Willamette Week had a breakdown of the statistics that they thought were relevant for that policy decision.
I would hope that Home Forward could come up with their own.
I would like some type of in-house numbers that show what we were expecting and what thanks.
Sameer Kanal
That's it for me.
Councilor Smith or Ryan, are either those legacy hands or are those both real?
Okay.
Councilor Ryan?
Dan Ryan
Yeah.
Sameer Kanal
And then we'll move on after that.
Dan Ryan
Thank you, Chair.
I want to elaborate on 2 points.
The survey of residents, and I think the data was more looking at big picture on Home Forward.
We've been talking a lot about the management firms, the management, the property management companies.
And I've experienced that as a systemic challenge.
I think that, I think they've all been saying the same thing to me over the last 5 to 6 years.
And I think that there needs to be them as a key audience.
Because here's what I really think.
I think that this editorial comment that we did a good job building A lot of new facilities.
I don't think we were prepared for the management challenges of this era that we're in.
And the elephant in the room is fentanyl.
There's been a lot of reports of drug use and sales on the floors in my district and how uncomfortable people are to dance around that issue, literally even feeling safe to report it, if you will.
Well, so, um, and I think that what I'd hear from the management folks is that they don't have the staffing to manage some of these challenges and that they're not set up to be successful.
And so I just, I just hope that you realize how deep this, um, commitment is right now.
You're all entering, um, at a time where stuff that's been talked about for 6 years is finally really out in the open.
Thank you.
And you're the board at this moment that has to guide a culture differently than it was guided prior to that.
But I think the blaming isn't really the solution as much as what are the standards?
What seems like we're not providing enough support, big we, government included, on how to manage the projects and I've gone to way too many ribbon cuttings, and then within a year later, I hear about vacancy rates that are uncomfortable, and I hear about conditions that are really, really sad.
And I think that there just needs to be some honest dialogue with all of these groups.
In your time in the city, Councilor Green, Central Oregon, can you think of some incidents that came up that allowed you to really look at some big systemic changes that needed to take place?
Because maybe what was working in the past, the staffing model, what kind of staff you need.
I just kept hearing labor force challenges from those who were doing the property management.
One, challenge to keep the employees, and two, not thinking they had enough.
Yeah.
Enough of them, and then 3, not having maybe the skill sets that were required to meet the needs and the challenge of the residents.
Tom Kemper
Property management is a very difficult business.
You know, I, I've been— I've used so many property— different, different property managers over the years.
It's very frustrating.
In Central Oregon, we actually got to a place where we ended up forming our own property management company.
We had developed more than— we had a portfolio of like 700 units, which, you know, you could scale to actually create the infrastructure to have our own property management company.
And so we did that.
Dan Ryan
Conditions improve?
Tom Kemper
Pardon?
Dan Ryan
Did conditions improve after that?
Oh yeah.
Tom Kemper
It all boils down to people and money, really.
I mean, that's really what you're talking about.
Because when somebody says they don't have enough staffing, it's a money issue and it's hiring the right people.
And so it worked, it did improve.
But after, unfortunately, I retired in 2018, and after pandemic, their management made some bad decisions and they ended up replacing Epic with another third-party property management company.
But I think it was, it was a management issue.
They had the wrong people involved.
And so I think it really does boil down to the who and financially how you support those organizations.
Because it is, it is a very difficult business.
I mean, I've been, uh, I've been, you know, on the ownership side for a long, long time, and I— it's— that's the hardest part, is the property management.
It's very difficult, and it's even more difficult today given all the, the impacts in this, you know, the issues that we talked about earlier.
It's just hard.
Thank you.
Dan Ryan
Yeah, I think it was around 2022 where I had the responsibility as Housing Commissioner to make calls to say, you were awarded this new contract.
And I started getting pushback like, I don't know if I want it.
Like, you know, like this is getting really hard.
And I don't know if Home Forward, the city's providing enough money to manage the property in the way that we need to.
So—.
Tom Kemper
I think Mr. Edmonds pointed out the service side is so critical.
And, you know, again, I think that's a money issue.
And it's— well, it's also, you know, hiring the right people.
But I mean, I— it— again, I think it boils down to the who.
And, you know, do you support it effectively with enough money?
Dan Ryan
I really appreciate this.
I think what you're experiencing is how important it is for the council to really have this type of authentic dialogue concerning what we have been listening to for some time.
And so I think we're on the right track.
We just have to keep unearthing all of what people are seeing or hearing about and make sure that we get a handle on it.
Tom Kemper
And have high expectations.
Dan Ryan
Extremely so.
Yeah, yeah.
There's so much more to talk about.
I look forward to having a dialogue with you and the board in the future.
And thank you again.
Supporting all 3 of you for this appointment.
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Thanks, Councilor Ryan.
Seeing no one else in the queue, this is a resolution.
It does not need a, uh, separate motion.
So there is a, uh, I think we have a vote on whether or not to refer each of these separately on.
So the first one is our 2 Portland appointees, and the second one is our Gresham appointee to the full council.
Is that correct, Diego?
Unidentified speaker
I believe we need a motion and a second.
Sameer Kanal
We do need a motion.
Okay, is there a motion to refer on the Portland appointees?
Let's start with the first one.
Steve Novick
So moved.
Dan Ryan
Second.
Sameer Kanal
Moved by Councilor Novick, seconded by Ryan.
Um, let's do this one and then I'll ask for the motion on the other one.
Diego, will you please call the roll?
Unidentified speaker
Motion by Novick, seconded by Ryan.
Clark?
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Green?
Mitch Green
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Avalos?
Candace Avalos
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Smith?
Loretta Smith
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Novick?
Steve Novick
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
With 10 ayes and 2 absent, the motion carries.
Eric Zimmerman
This is Councilor Zimmerman, aye.
Unidentified speaker
Oh, one moment.
Sameer Kanal
I, I'll just— just to be sure that that was okay, is there unanimous consent for allowing that?
I don't know where in the process of announcing the vote you were, but I'm not seeing any objection to counting that vote.
Loretta Smith
Let him vote.
Sameer Kanal
Okay, go for it, Diego.
Unidentified speaker
If it's all right, I'll rerun the vote.
Keelan McClymont
Clerk?
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Mitch Green
Aye.
Eric Zimmerman
Aye.
Candace Avalos
Aye.
Loretta Smith
Aye.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Aye.
Candace Avalos
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Ryan.
Dan Ryan
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Koyama Lane.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Murillo.
Angelita Morillo
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Novick.
Steve Novick
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
With 11 ayes and 1 absent, the motion carries and the resolution Document number 2026-341 moves to the full council with the recommendation it be adopted.
Sameer Kanal
I was an aye too, for the record, but it's good.
Is there a motion for— to refer the other resolution, that's Resolution 2026-342 from Mr. Edmonds, to the council with a do pass recommendation?
Dan Ryan
So moved.
Sameer Kanal
Moved by Councilor Ryan.
Steve Novick
Second.
Sameer Kanal
Seconded by Councilor Novick.
Seeing no one else in the queue, Diego, will you please call the roll on this one?
Unidentified speaker
Clark.
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Green.
Mitch Green
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Zimmerman.
Avalos.
Steve Novick
Avalos.
Unidentified speaker
Smith.
Olivia Clark
Smith.
Unidentified speaker
Pirtle-Guiney.
Olivia Clark
Pirtle-Guiney.
Unidentified speaker
Ryan.
Sameer Kanal
Ryan.
Unidentified speaker
Koyama Lane.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Aye.
Angelita Morillo
Aye.
Steve Novick
Aye.
Sameer Kanal
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
With 11 ayes and 1 absent, the motion carries and the resolution, document number 2026-342, moves to the full council with a recommendation it be adopted.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you for stepping up.
We have 2 items left on our agenda, but we're gonna take a short break.
Please be back in 11 minutes at 4:10.
Thank you.
We're recessed.
Thank you.
We are at 6 unless somebody online can turn on their camera, uh, beyond the 2 who already have.
Thank you to you.
Okay, we are back in session.
It may not look like we have quorum, but we do with the folks online, uh, so thank you.
Unidentified speaker
Um, Diego, can you please call item Item 6, document number 2026-375, appoint alternate members to the Community Board for Police Accountability.
Sameer Kanal
Great.
Uh, senior— no, Chief Deputy City Attorney Heidi Brown, please take it away.
Unidentified speaker
Thank you.
Nancy Thorington
Good afternoon, Chair, councilors.
Good to see you all this afternoon.
Um, this resolution is part of a non-monetary settlement agreement That resolves a lawsuit brought by Mr. Weinstein.
The settlement agreement is not before you because, because it's non-monetary.
However, the reappointment of Mr. Weinstein as an alternate to the Community Board for Police Accountability is before you because it is a condition of the settlement.
Therefore, if council were to decide not to reappoint Mr. Weinstein as an alternate thank you.
So just briefly, Mr. Weinstein was removed from service as an alternate on the Community Board for Police Accountability after declining to sign a confidentiality and nondisclosure agreement.
We were unable to resolve that matter prior to his removal, but I'm very happy to say that since then we've been able to work together.
And find some middle ground that works both for the city and for Mr. Weinstein on the nondisclosure agreement, which we will have all the other board members sign as well.
And so basically the settlement agreement revised the nondisclosure and confidentiality agreement, as I stated.
We will publish non-privileged Community Board for Police Accountability trainings on the— on their website.
And then the litigation will be dismissed.
That is dependent upon if Mr. Weinstein is reappointed.
So at this point, I am recommending to you for this council to reappoint Mr. Weinstein in interest of this settlement and furtherance of that matter.
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Heidi.
We're gonna do very brief technical questions because we may have testimony, and then we'll get into deliberation.
Loretta Smith
Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
So just so that I have this correct, um, Mr. Weinstein was asked by our office, by the city, to sign a confidentiality agreement, and he, um, declined.
And so you're saying that now he is going to sign one?
Nancy Thorington
Yes, we have— Mr., Mr. Weinstein was concerned with some aspects of it.
We have clarified the nondisclosure agreement so it's, it's so that there's, uh, it's, it's clear what they are agreeing to keep confidential, um, for the city.
We're clear that certain things will come through our office to get advice by board members if they need it on what they can disclose.
And with that, we felt comfortable resolving it.
Loretta Smith
And so the things that he wanted clarify or not to sign off on was these were training materials that he wanted, and he was basically to sign an NDA not to make those public?
I can't remember what it was, but I'm trying to get this straight technically.
Nancy Thorington
Yeah, at that time, the nondisclosure agreement said any and all confidential information, and it wasn't clear about what that covered.
And then we had a discussion about whether something was attorney-client privileged and who would make the decision about whether to release that.
What we did is go through and make sure that the nondisclosure agreement provides clarity on what board members have to keep confidential, and it ties it really to the public records laws.
Things, matters that are exempt from public records disclosure will also be considered confidential, and also makes clear which, which includes attorney-client privilege.
Loretta Smith
So the training materials are now not confidential anymore?
Nancy Thorington
Um, most of them are not.
There is one training that was provided by me, and that would continue to be attorney-client privileged, so that would not be posted on the website.
Loretta Smith
Okay, so I'm just trying to keep clear because this was a long time ago that this happened, and I wanted to make sure that I had it technically correct.
But he is still going to sign some sort of an NDA?
Nancy Thorington
Yes, yes, we've revised it, and it'll— the revised NDA will apply to all board members.
And Mr. Weinstein is willing to sign it with the revisions we've made.
Loretta Smith
So didn't all the other members sign an NDA and he refused to?
Nancy Thorington
That is correct, Councilor.
Loretta Smith
And so that I'm correct, so in his refusal, that's what got him removed from the alternate spot?
Nancy Thorington
That's right.
And I think he and I had tried to work through the concerns he had, and we just unfortunately didn't have enough time to be able to achieve that.
Before this matter was before council and his removal occurred.
And then thereafter, he filed a lawsuit, and we worked with his attorney and him and my office to come up with— make those revisions so that we all felt comfortable with it.
Loretta Smith
And so now we can no longer remove people from those positions for not signing the NDAs?
Nancy Thorington
Well, they'll have to re-sign the revised nondisclosure agreement.
Loretta Smith
The revised one.
Nancy Thorington
Yes.
And then any new board members who get appointed either as an alternate or as a board member would need to sign this same nondisclosure agreement.
Loretta Smith
This new one.
Okay, so I got it.
Thank you for walking me through that.
Sameer Kanal
Happy to do it.
Loretta Smith
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thanks.
And just to clarify, there, there is no testimony.
I just got the update.
Um, so we're just going to do everything together.
Um, feel free to get back in the queue as needed.
Um, Councilor Green followed by Avalos.
Mitch Green
Thank you, Chair Kanal.
Just, I think, first of all, I think it's pronounced Weinstein.
Is that a not— yeah, I've got the positive.
Yeah, just like to do that.
I spent a lot of time with Mr. Weinstein on the campaign trail, so I got to hear him pronounce his name a lot in 2024.
Thank you.
I appreciate the work that has happened to get to a resolution here.
I understand that it's a non-monetary resolution.
My objection to having Mr. Weinstein on it originally was because what felt like a refusal to work with or to sort of land that plane with the City Attorney's Office.
That has happened.
So now I no longer have a reason to object Mr. Weinstein.
So I'm going to support the resolution appointing him today.
Loretta Smith
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Green.
Councilor Avalos, followed by myself.
Unidentified speaker
Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
Candace Avalos
Thank you.
Thank you, Heidi, for all of your work to get to some kind of resolution.
Unfortunately, the very serious concerns that I had raised the last time we talked about Mr. Weinstein's appointment remain.
And so to keep it short, I do not plan on supporting this.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Avalos.
I'm next in the queue.
Colleagues, I added myself as a co-sponsor to this one as well.
I felt that it was appropriate at the time that this conversation was coming up, exactly what you said, Heidi, that a little more time to figure out the question.
I think that there were some— whenever you're standing up a new system and looking at the changes in what is going to be required or not, there's likely to be some questions over the level of disclosure that's appropriate.
I think that's been seen throughout the various steps of this process of migrating from the old system to the new.
Thank you.
And so that's why I voted no on the removal in the first place.
And that's why I'm glad to see that this has been resolved to both— assuming this passes— to mutual satisfaction.
So that's why I will be supportive of this.
Yeah.
Just going to pause and there's no one else in the queue.
Just give everyone a moment.
Okay.
Colleagues, we would need a motion to refer this resolution onto the full council with a due date Do I have a motion to pass recommendation in order to proceed?
Unidentified speaker
So moved.
Dan Ryan
Second.
Sameer Kanal
Moved by Councilor Smith, seconded by Councilor Ryan.
Is there any further discussion on this item?
Councilor Smith.
Loretta Smith
I would just like to say that I will be supporting this motion, and I'm glad we got it straightened out.
And I do agree that when you're starting something new, you really need to work through the kinks.
And I'm glad that, um, uh, Bob Weinstein or Stein.
I'm sorry, you have to excuse my Michigan vernacular.
But Bob is very thorough and he is smart and he is a public servant.
And the idea that someone with his background and track record, that we don't use his information that he's willing to give in his retirement, I think would have been a shame.
And so I am happy to say that I will be full-throatedly supporting Kim in his effort to, to serve.
So thank you so much, Bob.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, colleagues.
Seeing no one else in the queue, Diego, will you please call the roll?
Unidentified speaker
Aye.
Olivia Clark
Aye.
Sameer Kanal
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Avalos.
Candace Avalos
No.
Unidentified speaker
Smith.
Loretta Smith
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Pirtle-Guiney.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Ryan.
Dan Ryan
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Koyama Lane.
Tiffany Koyama Lane
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Murillo.
Angelita Morillo
No.
Unidentified speaker
Novick.
Steve Novick
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
Knoll.
Sameer Kanal
Aye.
Unidentified speaker
With— oh, sorry, one second.
With 9 ayes, 2 nays, and 1 absent, the motion carries, and the resolution, document number 2026-375, moves to the full council with a recommendation it be adopted.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Heidi.
Thank you, Mr. Weinstein, as well.
Colleagues, we have one item.
Well, Diego, will you please read item 6?
Unidentified speaker
I believe we're on item 7.
Is that right?
Oh yeah, you're right.
Sameer Kanal
Item 7.
Unidentified speaker
Item 7, document number 2026-378, Council Leadership Election Process.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, colleagues.
This is the last item on our agenda today.
It is a report back this is a presentation item.
There's no legislation that is being proposed right now.
Colleagues online, the attachment is up on the item for this.
This is a workgroup that was established a few months ago to look at the council leadership election process.
The purpose of today's conversation is to report back on what the workgroup identified and found, not to necessarily express any sort of recommendation.
Okay.
Opinions of the workgroup itself, but to start a conversation that may eventually lead to changes to our processes.
The workgroup on the council leadership election process was Councilors Avalos, Dunphy, myself, Pirtle-Guiney, and Smith.
We did consult, the 3, 4 of us met 3 times and talked about this, and the idea was to capture everything that had been suggested as ways to To update the council election process in a way that would help avoid some of the problems that we've seen.
If you look at page 2 of the document, you'll see what those problems were that were identified.
And I'm going to pull up a slide real quick.
I just forgot that I had those.
Um, and Councilor Avalos, is that a legacy hand or did you want to jump in for when we—.
Loretta Smith
Okay.
Unidentified speaker
Yes.
Okay, cool.
Sameer Kanal
Um, just making sure that I can share my screen here.
Okay, so, um, this is a very, very brief slide deck here.
Um, little disclaimer, which you're going to see on there too, um, which is see if there's a possibility to change, uh, 3.02 around the council leadership election.
Absent any changes, we continue as is with the election on Wednesday, January 6th, 2027.
The goal of the report was to describe each option and the relevant variables as neutrally as possible, to provide the positives as a supporter of the option might, and to provide the negatives as a critic of the option might, without regard to our own opinions.
The workgroup itself is not making recommendations, though certainly the 4 of us all have thoughts.
And we are not— we didn't go through a whole legal analysis process.
That'll happen if and when there there's an ordinance.
We basically split the options into 2 categories, the first being the options that are generally mutually exclusive, the pick one options.
6 Of those were in there, and then a bunch of others— I think there's 11, uh, 10— that can be layered on top of it.
You can pick any, pick all, or pick none.
The pick one options are listed here.
Status quo, no changes to the process.
And by the way, one this is in the event of a deadlock where no candidate receives 7 votes.
That's the— this is the process that would be taken in that scenario.
Option 2, mayor breaks the tie.
Option 3, incumbent remains in for a period of time.
Option 4, and then the election continues.
Option 4, the incumbent must abstain.
Option 5, using random chance, including flipping the Portland penny, although I'll note that Councilor Novick also said rock-paper-scissors was an option here.
Yeah.
And Councilor— Option 6 is automatic vice presidential succession.
And then there are 10 other options that were floated that could be added to this or in any combination thereof.
And you can see them on the screen.
They're also in the report.
I'm just gonna show it here.
I'm not gonna go through 'em all.
Yeah, that is the whole presentation.
There's not a lot here, but I did want to briefly allow each of the other people on the workgroup to add anything that they wanted to, to sort of explain our work and then just open it up and let folks react.
Colleagues, as you are doing it, including Councilors Avalos, Pirtle-Guiney, and Dunphy, please feel free to give your own opinions and just as you do so, if you would like.
I'll go to Councilor Avalos since she's already in the queue.
Candace Avalos
Thanks.
Yeah, thank you.
I put myself in the queue to give some opening remarks and I'll get back in to join the discussion once colleagues have weighed in.
Thank you to my colleagues who participated in this workgroup.
I really appreciated the opportunity to have a thoughtful conversation about what we've experienced over the last 2 years and what we might want to do differently.
I think one of the main and most important things that we identified is that we're not just dealing with a voting problem, we're dealing with a governance and council culture problem.
We've had 2 consecutive years of lengthy leadership elections, and I understand the desire to create a mechanism that gets us to a decision more quickly.
But I also think we should be careful not to confuse efficiency with effectiveness.
A faster election doesn't necessarily mean a better election, and a mechanism that produces a winner doesn't necessarily produce consensus or effective leadership.
So for me, there are a few principles that matter.
First, I believe that the decision about who leads this legislative body should remain with the legislative second, I believe the process should be public and transparent.
Portlanders deserve to understand how we're selecting our leadership and what those decisions mean for how their government operates.
And third, I think we need to spend some more time discussing what we want from our leadership before we start discussing who we want in those positions.
The council president has significant responsibilities, and those responsibilities affect all 12 of us.
Council President, I have a question.
Us, our, our committees, and ultimately the communities that we represent.
And so I'm glad that this report, uh, presents a range of options without prescribing a single solution.
And my hope is that during this conversation, we can not just, um, talk about improving the mechanics of our elections, but discuss how we strengthen how we govern together.
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Avalos.
I'll go to Pirtle-Guiney, then Smith.
Loretta Smith
Councilor Pirtle-Guiney is after you.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
Thank you, Chair and colleagues.
I don't have, um, anything formal prepared, but I just want to note a few things before we move into discussion.
The first is I think it's really important as you, um, view this document to know that, as Councilor Kanal stated, these aren't the opinions of the folks who are on the group.
They are our attempt to capture in good faith what everyone around this body has brought And we bring this to you not with, um, with our sign-off on all of these options.
In fact, there are many things we're putting forward that I don't think would be best for our body, but I do think that they're important to discuss because I don't want us to have these possibilities hanging over us as we move into the next council election.
I want us to have discussed them and a majority of this body to have ruled on what the, the I also think it is important to note that this body has not settled on how much power we think the council president should have.
And many of the assumptions that go into what people think the best path forward is have a lot to do with what the role of the council president is as well.
And so I suspect that that may pepper itself into our conversations, and I think that's a good thing.
Thank you.
The third thing that I'd like to note before we move into discussion is that we are viewing this, I think, reflexively through the lens of what has already happened.
And I would caution us from doing that.
We have had 2 rounds of council president elections that have been divided in a 6-6 split, but that may not always be the case for this board.
We may have a year where there are 3 people running and this body is divided 5 and 3, and now I have to do math on the spot, 4, and none of those get to a majority.
But the solutions for that may look different from what would work to help us solve a 6-6 divide.
So I hope that as we move through these, we are thinking about not just how they might help or harm in a council that is divided 6-6 in a presidential election, but how they would affect our ability to move forward in electing council leadership in any number of situations.
Because I don't think we should limit ourselves to assuming that the current or the last 2 years of I'm looking forward to hearing the discussion, and I'll jump in with some of my thoughts on what our priorities should be after I hear from some of our colleagues.
Thank you, Chair.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.
Councilor Smith.
Loretta Smith
Thank you so much.
I appreciate everybody putting in, in a lot of work.
And, you know, some of these conversations were very brutal over the last 2 years.
I nominated, uh, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney because I thought she did a good job with what she was working with.
And I appreciate the leadership of our new council president, and he's done a good job as well.
But I, um, I am going to go back to what I always said because I'm always very clear.
We are trying to create a process that's already created for us.
Yes.
And I will wait because I do not like suing myself, but I've been given permission by the legal counsel to, um, file and use our, our dollars to file for declaratory judgment.
The charter is very clear that the mayor breaks all ties, and we're going— we're, we're putting so much energy behind not trying to follow the charter yes.
About this particular thing, but we're so exact when we have to follow the charter on other issues that we like and want, and we'll use the charter as the holy grail to say we had to do this, it's in the charter.
But we're not doing that.
And we even created a code to supersede charter.
And I asked Robert Taylor, does code supersede the charter?
And he said no.
And folks around the table that I really respect, and the, and the, and the person that I nominated for, for, uh, for president, she is the one who led that effort to do this.
And I disagree with her, even though I still wanted her to be president.
I disagree with her, and I still disagree with her, and I disagree with the rest of the committee that we need to figure out definitively, not by code, not by all these meetings about something.
We already have this settled.
We have people here who was the chair of this, of the charter committee, and they know what it was.
And so for me, until we get a declaratory judgment, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, I, um, I am still in the same corner that I was before, and I don't care what I don't care what document you create.
I believe we are not following the charter willingly.
We are in a constitutional crisis.
And until we get something that says this is what it is and that the mayor breaks all ties, amendments, and everything, I don't want any more parts of it.
I really don't.
So, but I do appreciate your work because you're trying to do a workaround when we really need to do what we need to do.
Unidentified speaker
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Smith.
Councilor Green, followed by Councilor Ryan.
Mitch Green
Yeah, um, just some opening remarks before we kind of get into the, um, specificity of these proposals.
I just want to say that it's a pretty high priority of mine to adopt some kind of rule before the end of the year and before we get into January, whoever whoever's whoever's in these seats in January, so that way we have some certainty on how we will approach resolution of this question.
There's been a lot of discourse around sort of like council not being able to resolve questions before council, focusing on six six splits.
A lot of that reporting has.
I think the council is frankly not engaged with the data, which says that 96% of the votes before this body are resolved.
It's—.
But it's the council president election and it's the amendments, the budget process where we— where you do find that tension.
I don't personally have an issue with the budget amendments failing 6-6.
That's what they're supposed to do.
If you can't find your 7th vote, well, that's on you.
I do believe strongly that it's the obligation of this body to choose its leadership.
And our inability to resolve that question swiftly and with a sort of like level of rigor, I think, has created a loss of confidence in the public.
And I think it's really important to earn that back.
And so there's a couple proposals that I've reviewed here that are in play that I like some more than others.
Kind of interested in the coin toss, to be honest with you.
But, um, but I definitely think that, uh, yeah, I'll save my broader comments as we get into debates on the merits.
But I just think, um, you know, we, we have an obligation to choose our own leadership on this body.
Unidentified speaker
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Green.
Councilor Ryan.
Dan Ryan
Thank you, Chair Kanal.
And I want to thank all of you who've served on this subcommittee, if you will.
And I'll just say ditto to what Councilor Smith said.
I'm really clear that that's the solution.
And I think having— I would like to talk about the variables when we get there.
I'm seeing the variables, how many rounds?
That's a great question, 'cause it would be great if we could resolve it.
But I know when I voted on the charter, it was really crystal clear that the mayor would break ties.
So I feel like we're pretty in line.
Thank you.
This, um, somehow, um, and it was unnecessary.
So I look forward to hearing what everyone else has to say, but I just want to let you know I'm crystal clear.
Thanks.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Ryan.
Uh, I'm next in the queue.
First off, I, I wanted to identify the problem statement.
I, I think that this, um, I agree with everything Councilor Green said about our general votes and on the fairness of 6-6-6.
Councilor Smith.
I think that the process is failing as it relates to amendments, budget and otherwise.
With relation to the council president and theoretically vice president, although that hasn't happened yet, votes, I do think that that's a little different.
I think there are people who are cautiously optimistic about the charter for whom this has posed a pretty big challenge to their faith in the new system.
And I think there are also people who were maybe never in favor of the charter who are using this as an opportunity to I think kind of cynically, for why the rest of the system is on trial to them.
I'm not referring to any colleagues when I say that.
I'm more talking about the outside conversation.
I think with relation to the unsettled question of the council president's power is an important one.
I'm glad Councilor Pirtle-Guiney raised that as well, because I think sometimes it feels a lot higher stakes than it may otherwise.
And then the release valve to that is the lack of the same feeling as it relates to the Vice President.
So, you know, alongside this, I hope that there's a conversation that starts about enumerated powers for the Vice President that might help with this situation.
Colleagues, the pick one option that I suggested is number 4, incumbent must abstain.
And this would, in a 1-year council president term, but 2 years of the same council membership effectively guarantee or near guarantee the rotation of power in a council that cannot independently come to a 7-vote majority for any one candidate.
I think that that is maybe the fairest way, and I know that there are systems around the country and around the world that have this in situations where there is an even split.
That doesn't necessarily resolve the, the 4-4-4 type splits, but I think it can be accommodated.
The other thing that I'd like to suggest that we look at is straw polling of some variety to get clear indications of, of councilor preferences prior to it, a work session, so that people are able to discuss what they're looking for before who they're looking for, exactly as Councilor Avalos stated it.
And then ensuring that's right.
That any candidate for election cannot preside over that election.
Those are things that I'm very interested in.
That doesn't mean I'm not interested in any of the others.
I think, you know, the one thing that is definitive in all situations is the coin flip, or, you know, because there may be 3, I guess, councilors, and we actually put as a variable what happens if there's more than 2 who are split.
So, but some sort of random chance is the only 100% definitive thing.
But I think there's a lot of other options we could do that are maybe 99.9% definitive.
I'm interested in this conversation continuing.
I know that we won't have time to get too deep into it today, and that's okay, um, because there's no ordinance proposed at this moment.
Um, but I did want to just kind of give a, a starting point for where I am looking.
Um, thanks.
Councilor Novick, you are next in the queue.
Steve Novick
Thank you.
Um, one thing I wanted to thank the group for is the— actually, the seriousness with which you took the coin flip option.
And after reading the description, I'm sort of more inclined towards it than I would have been before.
I actually like a couple of ideas that don't really resolve the issue, but like the idea of having a work session where we discuss the expectations for the president and vice president.
I think that would be a good thing.
I also think that having an executive session where we discuss this would be a good thing.
I don't think that all decisions should be made I agree with Councilor Smith on the interpretation of the charter.
One thing, however, that— I mean, I don't think it's a good idea for the mayor to be deciding council leadership, even if that is the law.
And one thing I regret not having proposed just over a year ago was simply sending out a charter amendment to create a 13th at-large council Uh, which would break the deadlock without involving the mayor.
Uh, so those are, you know, those are my initial, my initial thoughts.
And I, you know, Councilor Ryan's laughing.
I mean, there's, there are plenty of, uh, you know, jurisdictions that have mostly district but some at-large councilors.
That would be one way of resolving it.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Novick.
Um, just as I approach this queue going forward, I am going to prioritize those who have thank you.
Loretta Smith
And thank you, um, our lawyer friend up here on the council for telling me I can break the law.
Um, I will not, not knowingly.
And I know that this is breaking the law.
It's—.
You guys, we— it's, it's, it's almost like what I tell my grandchildren not to do something, they come and give me all these other ways and loopholes to get around what I'm trying to tell them.
And they know what I tell them is the law in my house.
So, um, that's what I feel like.
I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm kind of in that same kind of situation where, I mean, I, I really respect the work and the time that you all spent, but it's— I mean, we got so many other things.
But the reason why I put my hand up is because you're right, Councilor Green.
I've heard similar things.
Oh, you guys aren't doing anything.
You can't do anything.
I said, but we've done a lot of work.
There's just been some really high-profile things that we just didn't agree on.
But if you look at all the work that has gone through the committees and voted through, we've done a lot of work and we have been effective.
So I, I won't allow folks to, to take me down that rabbit hole.
But because I know we're working, we're in this building, we're in this seat for 6, 7 hours a day, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
And like we have never been before, even last year, our first year, this has just been a very rigorous schedule as far as I'm concerned.
I'd like to have more conversation about that.
But that being said, we've been doing work.
Folks may not agree.
We've talked about issues that, you know, many folks talk about the FAR GWAI.
I didn't think we should have been spending 6 months on it, but we did.
At any rate, and so we kind of get off track on that, but we have done work.
We have changed some things that needed to be changed.
We have deliberated on the things that the bureaus have put forward to the mayor that have gotten to us.
So I think we have done that job, but we have failed to really We have failed the community in really coming to grips that we have a charter.
If y'all want to change— y'all basically are changing the charter with this, and y'all can't change the charter.
You got to wait for the charter change, y'all.
It's like, you know, my grandkids, they want to open their presents the day before Christmas.
No, you want to change stuff, you can't.
In order to get this change, you have to go through charter, or you have to go get a declaratory judgment.
Thank you.
So, I mean, you know, these are, these are things that I know you're trying to solve a problem before we get there, but let's wait till after the election and we'll see.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Smith.
Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, then Novick.
Elana Pirtle-Guiney
I was hoping to have some other folks talk first, but the queue was getting short, so I jumped in.
Um, colleagues A lot of the proposals that we considered in this group continue to strike me as reactions to the past 2 elections, and that makes me a little bit uncomfortable because, um, we get a lot of good done all together, and we don't know what the future will hold for this body.
And I, I don't mean that looking I mean that looking to 4 or 8 or 10 years from now and the fact that any number of things could come up that this body faces in that time.
And writing rules specific to 2 discrete challenges has a real opportunity to leave us with even more challenges down the road.
Thank you.
I want to state clearly that I trust our current council president to preside over a council president election, whether or not he is running.
I trust any of you to preside over a vote that you have a vested interest in.
We do that every day.
We do that every time somebody is chairing a body and has a proposal, chairing a committee and has a proposal before it.
We do that when we let chairs set agendas.
I think that's a good point.
There are plenty of places where we all have vested interests in the work and preside over it nonetheless.
I also don't think anybody should be disenfranchised for having stepped up.
So proposals like asking the council president not to preside or not to vote are non-starters for me.
In fact, I don't want us to disenfranchise any of our colleagues ever, and I think I'm also not interested in options which depend upon members who may no longer be in office.
So an automatic vice president succession, succession, or the council president abstaining assumes that somebody is still in office who may have chosen not to run the next term.
I think that's a good point.
And that leads us to a long path of figuring out what-ifs, if we get stuck in a council president election and the method for resolving it that we have before us isn't actually possible.
There's also a whole category of things here that bring some of our deliberations behind closed doors.
And this is a very important category.
Yeah.
This council has repeatedly tried to move more and more of our deliberations into the open and to the public.
Now, I do think that the work of running our body is at times different from the work of running our city, and it may be that it helps to ease tension if we move some of those conversations behind closed doors.
But if we do that, I want us to be careful about how we do that and how much we move behind closed doors.
Because I want Portlanders to still trust this body.
I do think that what helped us last year was a cooling-off period.
And while it wasn't mandatory, and while there were some folks who were frustrated that we took 6 days before we reconvened, that time allowed folks to bring the temperature down, have some additional non-quorum discussions, and come back and move us forward.
I don't think that needs to be mandatory.
We did it without it being mandated last time around.
But I do think things like a cooling-off period, like moving other names forward, Maybe even considering, um, the incumbent remaining in office for a period of time, though I have concerns about somebody not being able to move us forward and get the work done if that's the case.
Um, those may help ease tension, and I think that's what I'm looking for here.
I actually don't think the status quo is as broken as I think some of you all do.
But if we're going to look for changes, I'm looking for things that allow us opportunities to So that we can move forward with good decision-making that gets us out of, um, impasses that may actually be about a specific person or a specific concern and not about the issue at hand.
Thank you.
I'll leave it there for now.
I look forward to hearing from others.
Thanks, Chair.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.
Go to Councilor Novick, then Green.
And just as a flag, after Councilor Green, I will be closing the queue, so feel free to get in before that.
Steve Novick
Uh, just real quickly, I agree with everything that Councilor Pirtle-Guiney just said, except that I do think that there's some discussions should be had in private.
And I think that the public would be perfectly fine with us resolving some things in private rather than everything happened to be in public.
Um, I also just want to say, Councilor Smith, I don't think it was clear before, you're absolutely right.
The charter says the mayor breaks ties, and that means all ties.
So I think I support your idea for declaratory judgment.
I was just saying that I understand people's uneasiness with the idea of a mayor deciding the leadership of the council, but there's a solution to that.
If we want to make sure that that doesn't happen, then set out a charter change to establish a 13th councilor.
Thank you.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Novick.
We'll go to Councilor Green, then Clark.
Mitch Green
Yeah, to the, um, kind of substantive options here, I think generally speaking I favor simplicity.
Um, you know, uh, it'd be nice if we could walk into this chambers and resolve the question in one or two rounds.
But that will depend upon the electorate and who they choose to represent them, right?
So we can't necessarily predict that.
But I do think we have some tools here.
I kind of—.
I generally agree with Councilor Pirtle-Guiney's sort of misgivings on approaches that would depend upon people who are serving and assume that they are going to serve like, what if you don't want to be the council president and you're currently the vice president?
Like, that feels like a sentence more than it feels like an opportunity.
So I think, like, what's standing— what's coming up to the surface for me is a combination of a few things.
One, I like the idea of this sort of deliberate work session approach where we can start to sort of make the case and, like, who we— what kind of leader we want, what kind of leadership style we want, what kind of Who can bring that skill set to bear?
What are our priorities?
And that really gets us to a point where we're starting the year doing a priority-based, um, sort of session, if you will.
Um, I'm open to some level of executive session.
Uh, and 2, I think— or 3, I guess— I like STAR voting because, and especially if we've got multiple candidates, because I think in some sense it removes I think there's always the incentive to pregame this, to sort of say, all right, I know that this person maybe won't have all the votes, so we'll put up this other person first, and then that person gets knocked out, and then we're coming in on the back end with someone who we're presenting as a compromise candidate, but maybe they were always the person we wanted in the first place.
I think any given faction will always be given over to that strategy.
Councilor Smith.
Type of a strategy, and I don't think it's particularly helpful.
And so if you have a STAR voting system, you simply just say, look, based upon the work session, we heard from these 3 different council president candidates, here are the different ways they'd approach it.
You assign your points based upon what you like about them, and the vote resolves.
And there's a very rare case where you might have a tie, and in that case, flip a coin.
I think that's how I want to do it.
Um, I think if we're going to do a charter amendment process, I'm not opposed to a 13th council but I mean, we're not gonna be able to do that anytime soon.
So we gotta figure out how to— actually, you know what, I'm gonna take you one more, Councilor Ryan, 'cause I see your reaction.
We're gonna have 21 councilors.
We're gonna go as high as we can.
Just kidding.
Dan Ryan
Put that in the budget.
Mitch Green
Yeah, we'll take it outta your budget.
But yeah, no, I think that's the way to do it.
I'll leave it there.
We're just having fun.
Sameer Kanal
We do.
We have people online.
Um, we'll go to Councilor— I'm going to close the queue.
It's going to go Councilor Clark, Zimmerman, Ryan, and then myself, and then we will wrap.
I do know we have about 5 minutes left, so please keep it brief if you can.
But I know 2 of you have not spoken yet, so Councilor Clark, take it away.
Olivia Clark
Uh, thank you, Chair Kanal.
Um, I actually— I think it's been a good discussion.
I agree with some things, disagree with others.
Don't need to get into it, but I was wondering if there's I was wondering if there's an attorney in the room that can tell us exactly what it will take for us to get that declaratory judgment, because I really think we need to do that and get that out of the way.
Is there somebody who can address that?
Sameer Kanal
So we spoke— the attorneys are not available that fast, but I know that we kind of— the idea behind this is council vibe and initial positioning.
So, and then if there's a proposal to do that, I wasn't—.
Yeah.
So there's nobody in the room right now.
I know your angle might not show it.
Olivia Clark
Okay, no, I can't, I can't see the room, but I am interested in finding out exactly what that would take because I'm very supportive of that.
I thought that number 4, the incumbent must abstain, is kind of interesting, and I appreciate what Councilor Green said, that you don't want the vice president to be forced to do that.
It really is a sentiment.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Clark.
Councilor Zimmerman, followed by Ryan.
Unidentified speaker
Right.
Eric Zimmerman
Um, thank you.
This is an interesting document.
Um, I'm glad that the conversation has gone more serious than I think the document at least first fell in my lap, because penny flipping and asking people to not vote is not something you'll ever see me support.
I, I find that just incredibly strange and probably a charter violation, to be truthful, to say, hey, one councilor cannot vote because of some of the reasons that Councilor Pirtle-Guiney put out.
So I'm glad that this conversation is going more serious than I thought the document sounded on initial perusing.
I did not know that so much work had gone into this or that it was even occurring.
I do want to just say we've had 2 council presidents over 2 years who have had every opportunity available to them to fix this grand question of charter.
And I want to remind folks that just because a city attorney says one thing, the council president, the presiding officer, is the person who rules.
And there's really only one time when this would not have applied, and that was the very first time we elected a council president when we had no presiding officer in a true sense.
But ever since then, we have had a presiding officer.
Thank you.
Okay.
Officer over every time.
And the presiding officer is the one who does or doesn't determine whether or not to call the attorney in.
Now, some folks may have disagreed with that, and they may agree with our attorney's— our city attorney's interpretation of the charter.
But it would take, I think, a majority, if not a supermajority, to overrule that council president's ruling in that situation.
So I just want to I just wanted to lift up that aspect of what we're talking about is that I don't know that we even need to go— I mean, we may need to go down this injunction standpoint, and I think Councilor Smith is very right in this, and I will support her all the way to that so that we are following charter.
A couple of things that are in the meat or the spirit here, Chair, that I guess I just want to address a little bit is I don't adopt and adhere to this idea that the council president I'll be honest, I'm kind of looking for a council president to be somebody who's in the seat for a while if they're doing well.
I am so looking forward to some sort of stability on this council.
And this idea that we must automatically switch or that it switches between districts or automatically becomes a vice, those kind of things I don't think actually add stability to a governing body.
I think it's a good idea.
I think that that's why we see in many places presidents and speakers of bodies, they stay for a while as long as they've got the support.
And I want to continue to enable that type of leadership.
And lastly, I think that what we saw this year was the politicking, and I know politics is a word that we usually use as a curse, but the politicking that it took to get our current council president Council President, uh, it started, but it could have very well started a lot earlier, right?
There were obviously deals struck to get certain people roles that then got people votes, and that shouldn't be seen as a bad idea.
It takes building a coalition.
It takes talking to the folks who maybe are on the fence about your leadership, but being able to get something out of maybe a committee leadership, a vice presidency, etc., to lend support.
Those are the types of things that I think actually people, they kind of know exists and should happen.
That as this body matures, I think we'll see discussion more of.
There was a little bit of an allusion to like the leadership of council and what it would look like.
And I'll just show my cards, right?
I'm looking for somebody who will talk about how they plan to set up our committees so that we're not in back-to-back 3-hour meetings I'm looking to see somebody who's going to talk about how they are going to utilize the council so that when the council shows up, they are showing up the best they can.
And as wonderful as I think we all might think we are, none of us are our best on hour 6, and yet we structurally have hour 6 happen every single week.
So those types of things, I, I, I am, I am not inclined actually to change anything about this process.
I am I am inclined to allow the cream to rise and the best politician who can put forward a good path, a good plan, and build a coalition to rise.
I just think we are still in the diaper phase, frankly, with figuring this out, and it's been a little rocky.
But, uh, that's where I'm at.
I, I, again, I want to say the document didn't land great on me, but your guys' discussion in there and listening has been helpful, and I do appreciate that.
Um, And it tells me kind of where some of the motivations are.
I just think we come from very different motivations, and so I do respect those positions.
And thank you for the chat.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Zimmerman.
I know we're just over time, so Councilor Ryan briefly, and then I'll close this out.
Dan Ryan
Yeah, thank you, Councilor Knoll.
This is kind of like a throat-clearing work session on this topic.
I would say I'm still at number 1, adding number 2.
I'm fine with a work session, no to a yes to cooling off.
And I think working that out in a work session might be one reason to have one.
If we remain deadlocked, I think the incumbent should remain so we can do city's business.
And just since I had audible rejections to adding a 13th member, I need to say that I could see it if we were going to trim from 3 to 2 from each district, and then I think the public might be for it.
Thank you.
I'm listening to the public out there.
I haven't heard anyone that wants us to add more seats, so I'll rest there.
Sameer Kanal
Thank you, Councilor Ryan.
I'll just say one comment before we close it out.
For me, the underlying goal is to build public trust in the system and earn it.
And I think that involves at a minimum ending it on the same day, the same calendar day, not day as defined by recessing yes.
The, you know, before we leave the chamber permanently to go home, it is resolved.
Uh, and so that to me is a core underlying feature of it and my reason for, um, opposing the, the recesses cooling off, remaining the, you know, keeping the council present in place for some period of time.
And so I think it's our job to do that.
I think we were elected to do it, and I want to make sure that that is something that we're required to do as well.
Um, we're going to revisit this It is currently tentatively scheduled to come back as a discussion item on November 5th.
There's a lot of items in the November 5th and 12th place, so we may not get to all of those.
I welcome any feedback on that as we get closer to that date.
The time is now 5:03.
We do have a council meeting this evening at 6:00.
And so with that, this meeting of the Committee of the Whole is adjourned.
Thank you.
Thank you.