{ "meetingId": "2026-10-27-pwc-1", "title": "Portland City Council Public Works Committee 10/27/26", "displayTitle": "Public Works Committee", "date": "2026-10-27T11:33:00-07:00", "duration": 116, "videoUrl": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SWkAfCNp58", "videoId": "8SWkAfCNp58", "agendaUrl": "https://www.portland.gov/council/agenda/public-works-committee/2026/10/27", "agendaItems": [ { "number": 2, "title": "Amend Vehicles and Traffic Code to clarify Bureau of Transportation authority and allow flexibility (replace Code Section 16.10.080 and amend Chapter 16.90)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/amend-vehicles-and-traffic-code" }, { "number": 3, "title": "Committee discussion on automated vehicles", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-382" } ], "summary": "**The Public Works Committee voted 4-0 to recommend that the full City Council pass an ordinance letting Portlanders paint their own driveway clearances for a $200 permit ([00:34:09](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:34:09)).**\n\nCommittee Chair Olivia Clark (District 4) presided over Tuesday's meeting, attended by Councilors Mitch Green (District 4), Sameer Kanal (District 2) and Tiffany Koyama Lane (District 3). Councilor Loretta Smith (District 1) was absent. The committee approved its September minutes without objection.\n\n## Driveway paint permits head to full council\n\nThe ordinance rewrites city traffic code so residents and businesses can paint the curb next to a driveway, the yellow markings that keep cars from parking too close. Erica Namio-Kniebel, who oversees parking and regulatory operations at the Portland Bureau of Transportation (PBOT), said the city received more than 600 requests from 2021 to 2024, suspended the service last year to clear a backlog, and that city-installed work had taken more than six months. The old fee was \"about $383\" ([00:14:16](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:14:16)).\n\nUnder the new process, an applicant applies online, PBOT verifies the property owner's permission, the applicant pays **$200** to cover staff time, paints the clearance, and the city inspects it and logs it in its geographic information system, which makes it enforceable. Program manager Peter Wojcicki said the clearance can extend no more than 3 feet, the paint required is \"traffic yellow\" from a paint store ([00:23:16](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:23:16)), and permit holders can repaint without reapplying.\n\nGreen, who said a neighbor repeatedly blocked his driveway, asked whether the old $382.50 charge even covered costs. Namio-Kniebel said, \"I have my doubts\" ([00:17:38](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:17:38)), and Wojcicki said it was an inflation adjustment from $360, a fee fixed for 10 years, and \"cost recovery based on many years ago\" ([00:17:54](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:17:54)). Staff also described the old repaint cost as \"$363 or whatever.\" Green closed: \"Good bill must pass.\" ([00:18:31](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:18:31))\n\nKanal, a renter, asked why owner approval is required. Wojcicki said he did not know whether state law requires it, that an email from the owner would suffice, and that PBOT could drop the step if it causes problems ([00:21:13](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:21:13)). Kanal requested a marked-up version of the code changes and suggested a bulk discount for a whole block. Clark, who said \"I know I'm a violator\" ([00:25:31](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:25:31)), asked about letting neighbors paint crosswalks. Interim PBOT Director Wendy Cully said volunteers already paint intersections and some neighborhood associations paint yellow curbs where no-parking signs exist, but the city draws the line at traffic control devices because of liability ([00:26:21](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:26:21)).\n\nOne person, Alejandro Stein, signed up to testify but did not appear. \"We'll assume he was for it,\" Clark said ([00:33:48](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@00:33:48)). Kanal moved the referral and Green seconded. No open public-comment period appears in the meeting record.\n\n## Two councilors propose an autonomous vehicle ban\n\nAfter a recess, the committee returned to automated vehicles with no vote scheduled. Clark said the previous meeting showed no support for a regulatory ordinance, but she wanted to give the city's Office of Government Relations priorities to bring to the Legislature, which she expects to try to preempt local rules as it has in 15 other cities. On fleet caps, she said, \"if the legislature preempts us, this won't be an issue at all. The company will be able to do whatever it wants.\" ([01:16:56](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:16:56))\n\nKoyama Lane and Kanal then introduced a one-page legislative concept to \"ban autonomous vehicle operations in Portland public rights of way.\" Koyama Lane asked, \"do we want AVs in Portland? And I think for many of us that answer is no.\" ([01:38:34](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:38:34)) Kanal cited worker displacement, surveillance and safety, said \"the best way to prevent the sharing of data with the federal government is not to have it in the first place,\" and called for a new policy \"that says that all vehicles in Portland need a human driver\" ([01:41:10](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:41:10)). Green said any impact fee large enough to offset lost driving jobs would raise the question \"why don't we just ban this thing?\" ([01:25:46](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:25:46)) and that constituents tell him, \"who asked for this? Let's not.\" ([01:49:44](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:49:44))\n\nClark answered that only former Governor Kitzhaber made it policy not to preempt local governments and that \"historically local governments have been on the losing side\" ([01:46:46](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:46:46)). Koyama Lane replied that the public \"want to see us fight\" — \"They want to see us fight.\" ([01:48:16](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:48:16))\n\n## What PBOT's draft rules contain\n\nPBOT staff walked through draft rules built from other cities' experience. Jacob Sherman of PBOT said a recent state bill allowed permit suspension only if someone was \"seriously maimed or killed,\" while PBOT proposes to \"hold an automated vehicle company to the same standard as human drivers\" ([01:15:35](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:15:35)), meaning two traffic violations. Hannah Morrison said companies would need a first-responder line answered within 30 seconds, 24/7 ([01:17:22](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:17:22)), and remote operators based in the U.S. with U.S. licenses, after a Senate investigation found some working from places like the Philippines. PBOT Chief of Staff Shoshana Cohen said a fleet cap of 5 or 10% written into code would protect jobs better than a fee because \"the fee is never going to be enough to make up for it\" ([01:36:31](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:36:31)).\n\nKoyama Lane objected to a draft fleet growing to 250 vehicles in one year and to letting the city administrator set future caps. Kanal said data-sharing approval \"should be a council ordinance before a single piece of Portlanders' data is shared outside of the city\" ([01:30:31](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:30:31)), warning administrative rules could let the mayor raise caps after media attention fades. \"Not like we've experienced that,\" Clark said ([01:32:08](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:32:08)). Earlier, Kanal had pressed staff on whether a ban counts as a form of \"regulation.\" Near the end, Clark asked audience members talking in the chamber to \"please take it outside\" ([01:53:07](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:53:07)).\n\n## What's next\n\nThe driveway ordinance goes to the full City Council with a recommendation to pass; staff promised Kanal a marked-up version of the code changes. Cohen asked whether the proposed ban would cover only for-hire autonomous vehicles or all of them ([01:52:57](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:52:57)); Clark said the topic would return in **December**. The November meeting will include a utility rate briefing, Koyama Lane's budget note, members of the Public Utility Board and technical code fixes, with Smith chairing as vice chair in Clark's absence ([01:54:47](meeting:2026-10-27-pwc-1@01:54:47)).", "summaryText": "The Public Works Committee voted 4-0 to recommend that the full City Council pass an ordinance letting Portlanders paint their own driveway clearances for a $200 permit (00:34:09).\n\nCommittee Chair Olivia Clark (District 4) presided over Tuesday's meeting, attended by Councilors Mitch Green (District 4), Sameer Kanal (District 2) and Tiffany Koyama Lane (District 3). Councilor Loretta Smith (District 1) was absent. The committee approved its September minutes without objection.\n\nThe ordinance rewrites city traffic code so residents and businesses can paint the curb next to a driveway, the yellow markings that keep cars from parking too close. Erica Namio-Kniebel, who oversees parking and regulatory operations at the Portland Bureau of Transportation (PBOT), said the city received more than 600 requests from 2021 to 2024, suspended the service last year to clear a backlog, and that city-installed work had taken more than six months. The old fee was \"about $383\" (00:14:16).\n\nUnder the new process, an applicant applies online, PBOT verifies the property owner's permission, the applicant pays $200 to cover staff time, paints the clearance, and the city inspects it and logs it in its geographic information system, which makes it enforceable. Program manager Peter Wojcicki said the clearance can extend no more than 3 feet, the paint required is \"traffic yellow\" from a paint store (00:23:16), and permit holders can repaint without reapplying.\n\nGreen, who said a neighbor repeatedly blocked his driveway, asked whether the old $382.50 charge even covered costs. Namio-Kniebel said, \"I have my doubts\" (00:17:38), and Wojcicki said it was an inflation adjustment from $360, a fee fixed for 10 years, and \"cost recovery based on many years ago\" (00:17:54). Staff also described the old repaint cost as \"$363 or whatever.\" Green closed: \"Good bill must pass.\" (00:18:31)\n\nKanal, a renter, asked why owner approval is required. Wojcicki said he did not know whether state law requires it, that an email from the owner would suffice, and that PBOT could drop the step if it causes problems (00:21:13). Kanal requested a marked-up version of the code changes and suggested a bulk discount for a whole block. Clark, who said \"I know I'm a violator\" (00:25:31), asked about letting neighbors paint crosswalks. Interim PBOT Director Wendy Cully said volunteers already paint intersections and some neighborhood associations paint yellow curbs where no-parking signs exist, but the city draws the line at traffic control devices because of liability (00:26:21).\n\nOne person, Alejandro Stein, signed up to testify but did not appear. \"We'll assume he was for it,\" Clark said (00:33:48). Kanal moved the referral and Green seconded. No open public-comment period appears in the meeting record.\n\nAfter a recess, the committee returned to automated vehicles with no vote scheduled. Clark said the previous meeting showed no support for a regulatory ordinance, but she wanted to give the city's Office of Government Relations priorities to bring to the Legislature, which she expects to try to preempt local rules as it has in 15 other cities. On fleet caps, she said, \"if the legislature preempts us, this won't be an issue at all. The company will be able to do whatever it wants.\" (01:16:56)\n\nKoyama Lane and Kanal then introduced a one-page legislative concept to \"ban autonomous vehicle operations in Portland public rights of way.\" Koyama Lane asked, \"do we want AVs in Portland? And I think for many of us that answer is no.\" (01:38:34) Kanal cited worker displacement, surveillance and safety, said \"the best way to prevent the sharing of data with the federal government is not to have it in the first place,\" and called for a new policy \"that says that all vehicles in Portland need a human driver\" (01:41:10). Green said any impact fee large enough to offset lost driving jobs would raise the question \"why don't we just ban this thing?\" (01:25:46) and that constituents tell him, \"who asked for this? Let's not.\" (01:49:44)\n\nClark answered that only former Governor Kitzhaber made it policy not to preempt local governments and that \"historically local governments have been on the losing side\" (01:46:46). Koyama Lane replied that the public \"want to see us fight\" — \"They want to see us fight.\" (01:48:16)\n\nPBOT staff walked through draft rules built from other cities' experience. Jacob Sherman of PBOT said a recent state bill allowed permit suspension only if someone was \"seriously maimed or killed,\" while PBOT proposes to \"hold an automated vehicle company to the same standard as human drivers\" (01:15:35), meaning two traffic violations. Hannah Morrison said companies would need a first-responder line answered within 30 seconds, 24/7 (01:17:22), and remote operators based in the U.S. with U.S. licenses, after a Senate investigation found some working from places like the Philippines. PBOT Chief of Staff Shoshana Cohen said a fleet cap of 5 or 10% written into code would protect jobs better than a fee because \"the fee is never going to be enough to make up for it\" (01:36:31).\n\nKoyama Lane objected to a draft fleet growing to 250 vehicles in one year and to letting the city administrator set future caps. Kanal said data-sharing approval \"should be a council ordinance before a single piece of Portlanders' data is shared outside of the city\" (01:30:31), warning administrative rules could let the mayor raise caps after media attention fades. \"Not like we've experienced that,\" Clark said (01:32:08). Earlier, Kanal had pressed staff on whether a ban counts as a form of \"regulation.\" Near the end, Clark asked audience members talking in the chamber to \"please take it outside\" (01:53:07).\n\nThe driveway ordinance goes to the full City Council with a recommendation to pass; staff promised Kanal a marked-up version of the code changes. Cohen asked whether the proposed ban would cover only for-hire autonomous vehicles or all of them (01:52:57); Clark said the topic would return in December. The November meeting will include a utility rate briefing, Koyama Lane's budget note, members of the Public Utility Board and technical code fixes, with Smith chairing as vice chair in Clark's absence (01:54:47).", "summaryLede": "The Public Works Committee voted 4-0 to recommend that the full City Council pass an ordinance letting Portlanders paint their own driveway clearances for a $200 permit.", "sections": [ { "title": "Minutes Approval", "startTime": "00:06:49.949", "endTime": "00:09:20.309", "agendaItemNumber": 1, "items": [ { "title": "Public Works Committee draft meeting minutes for September 8, 2026, and September 22, 2026", "startTime": "00:08:54.331", "endTime": "00:09:20.309", "agendaItemNumber": 1 } ] }, { "title": "Regular Agenda", "startTime": "00:09:20.309", "endTime": "01:55:12.738", "items": [ { "title": "Amend Vehicles and Traffic Code to clarify Bureau of Transportation authority and allow flexibility (Ordinance 2026-387)", "startTime": "00:09:20.309", "endTime": "01:01:34.632", "agendaItemNumber": 2 }, { "title": "Committee discussion on automated vehicles (Presentation)", "startTime": "01:01:34.632", "endTime": "01:55:12.738", "agendaItemNumber": 3 } ] } ], "cues": [ { "id": "cue-1", "start": 409.949, "end": 411.604, "text": "Morning, everybody.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-2", "start": 411.941, "end": 413.05, "text": "Um, welcome.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-3", "start": 413.548, "end": 416.857, "text": "Uh, I'm going to call the meeting of the Public Works Committee to order.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-4", "start": 416.953, "end": 420.729, "text": "It's Tuesday, October the 27th at 9:32.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-5", "start": 421.786, "end": 423.363, "text": "Deanna, could you please call the roll?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-6", "start": 424.99, "end": 425.391, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-7", "start": 425.745, "end": 426.034, "text": "Green?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-8", "start": 428.155, "end": 428.332, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-9", "start": 429.216, "end": 429.489, "text": "Smith?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-10", "start": 430.646, "end": 431.016, "text": "Kanal?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-11", "start": 431.37, "end": 431.53, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-12", "start": 432.077, "end": 432.623, "text": "Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-13", "start": 433.362, "end": 433.491, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-14", "start": 434.07, "end": 434.247, "text": "Clerk?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-15", "start": 434.812, "end": 434.973, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-16", "start": 436.199, "end": 438.361, "text": "And Claire, could you please read the statement of conduct?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-17", "start": 439.103, "end": 439.539, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-18", "start": 440.136, "end": 442.234, "text": "Good morning and welcome to the meeting of the Public Works Committee.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-19", "start": 442.718, "end": 453.605, "text": "To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at portland.gov/council/agenda/publicworkscommittee or by calling 311.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-20", "start": 454.28, "end": 457.142, "text": "Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-21", "start": 457.819, "end": 460.595, "text": "In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-22", "start": 461.354, "end": 466.663, "text": "If public testimony will be taken on an item, individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the chair states otherwise.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-23", "start": 467.325, "end": 469.263, "text": "Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-24", "start": 470.167, "end": 471.152, "text": "The chair preserves order.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-25", "start": 471.523, "end": 479.289, "text": "Disruptive conduct such as shouting, Refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-26", "start": 480.058, "end": 481.837, "text": "If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-27", "start": 482.365, "end": 485.025, "text": "Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-28", "start": 485.57, "end": 488.567, "text": "Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-29", "start": 489.24, "end": 492.06, "text": "Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-30", "start": 492.861, "end": 494.72, "text": "Your testimony should address the matter being considered.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-31", "start": 495.104, "end": 496.819, "text": "When testifying, state your name for the record.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-32", "start": 497.412, "end": 499.751, "text": "If you are a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-33", "start": 500.136, "end": 503.374, "text": "And finally, virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-34", "start": 503.743, "end": 503.983, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-35", "start": 505.121, "end": 505.795, "text": "Thank you, Claire.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-36", "start": 506.949, "end": 513.393, "text": "Uh, colleagues, we have a slightly lighter agenda today than we've had in recent weeks, which is kind of a break.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-37", "start": 514.259, "end": 514.755, "text": "Welcome.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-38", "start": 515.765, "end": 523.572, "text": "But first, we're going to have an ordinance from PBOT on allowing property owners to paint driveway clearances for safety and visibility.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-39", "start": 524.598, "end": 528.253, "text": "Then, um, we will resume our discussion on autonomous vehicles.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-40", "start": 528.349, "end": 532.946, "text": "But before we do that, I'd like to take a little bit of an extended break after we We finished the first item.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-41", "start": 534.332, "end": 537.898, "text": "But before we get to those items, we need to adopt the committee minutes.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-42", "start": 540.52, "end": 544.56, "text": "Are there any changes, objections, issues?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-43", "start": 546.613, "end": 546.92, "text": "Do I—.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-44", "start": 546.92, "end": 548.424, "text": "I don't need to move approval, do I?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-45", "start": 548.715, "end": 548.892, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-46", "start": 548.957, "end": 549.054, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-47", "start": 549.119, "end": 549.442, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-48", "start": 549.587, "end": 550.299, "text": "Thank you, everyone.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-49", "start": 551.5, "end": 551.726, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-50", "start": 552, "end": 557.91, "text": "So we've approved the minutes of September meeting without objection.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-51", "start": 560.31, "end": 563.645, "text": "So, Diana, would you please read the first item?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-52", "start": 565.175, "end": 586.341, "text": "Item number 2, document number 2026-387, amend vehicles and traffic code to clarify Bureau of Transportation authority and allow flexibility, replace code section 16.10.080 and amend chapter 16.90.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-53", "start": 588.557, "end": 588.975, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-54", "start": 590.067, "end": 597.923, "text": "So colleagues, this ordinance replaces and amends city code to allow property owners to paint driveway clearances.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-55", "start": 598.742, "end": 602.036, "text": "And what we're talking about here is just part of the driveway that meets the street.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-56", "start": 602.598, "end": 607.048, "text": "And this can be painted to prevent parking immediately adjacent to a driveway.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-57", "start": 608.076, "end": 613.86, "text": "But there's been quite a backlog, and obviously we're all familiar with the budget cuts that have taken place at PBOT.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-58", "start": 614.34, "end": 621.73, "text": "So PBOT needs to amend the code to make this process of driveway painting easier and less expensive for property owners.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-59", "start": 623.47, "end": 629.214, "text": "So, and I'm gonna have some interesting questions about this, and I know they have a presentation.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-60", "start": 629.262, "end": 630.917, "text": "Staff has a presentation for us.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-61", "start": 631.372, "end": 632.231, "text": "We, oh, I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-62", "start": 633.408, "end": 634.651, "text": "Are you Erica Niebel?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-63", "start": 634.909, "end": 635.667, "text": "Yes, I am.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-64", "start": 635.812, "end": 636.49, "text": "Hi, welcome.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-65", "start": 637.183, "end": 638.006, "text": "And you must be Peter.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-66", "start": 638.642, "end": 638.756, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-67", "start": 639.21, "end": 639.632, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-68", "start": 639.94, "end": 643.478, "text": "Why don't you introduce yourselves, and then you've got, you're going to show us a slideshow.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-69", "start": 644.388, "end": 649.15, "text": "All right, um, we are working on the presentation, so please hang tight with us.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-70", "start": 649.262, "end": 650.465, "text": "Okay, introductions first.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-71", "start": 650.769, "end": 651.298, "text": "Oh, okay.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-72", "start": 651.908, "end": 652.998, "text": "Good morning, councilors.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-73", "start": 653.19, "end": 656.477, "text": "Thank you for having us this morning, and I apologize for the technical issue.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-74", "start": 657.038, "end": 662.009, "text": "My name is Erica Namio-Kniebel, and I oversee the parking and regulatory operations at PBOT.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-75", "start": 662.634, "end": 666.755, "text": "And next to me is— I'm going to do his introduction while he's working on the presentation.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-76", "start": 667.22, "end": 668.31, "text": "His name is Peter Wachicki.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-77", "start": 668.566, "end": 678.809, "text": "He is the program manager for parking signs and markings within, uh, Parking operations.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-78", "start": 679.261, "end": 681.94, "text": "Oh, sorry, having a technical difficulty.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-79", "start": 682.65, "end": 683.022, "text": "How's that?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-80", "start": 684.668, "end": 685.475, "text": "Adam to the rescue.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-81", "start": 689.673, "end": 690.879, "text": "Muted.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-82", "start": 691.074, "end": 692.051, "text": "That's right.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-83", "start": 692.149, "end": 694.739, "text": "I'm glad it's a lighter agenda, or else I'll be a little bit more stressed.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-84", "start": 696.26, "end": 697.438, "text": "No, no, no, no stress today.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-85", "start": 697.929, "end": 699.174, "text": "No, it's a no stress day.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-86", "start": 699.223, "end": 699.501, "text": "Shirt.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-87", "start": 699.567, "end": 702.659, "text": "So although I may ask you some questions that may stress you out.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-88", "start": 708.173, "end": 715.919, "text": "Click on here, and now you can share there or share there.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-89", "start": 716.096, "end": 717.242, "text": "And thank you.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-90", "start": 717.371, "end": 719.903, "text": "All right, thank you so much for the assistance.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-91", "start": 721.87, "end": 722.47, "text": "All right, next slide.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-92", "start": 724.751, "end": 725.036, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-93", "start": 725.778, "end": 733.116, "text": "So we are here today to discuss minor changes to Portland City Code Chapter 16-10-080 and 16-90.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-94", "start": 733.71, "end": 743.119, "text": "This change would allow residents and businesses to paint their own driveway clearances, do it at a reduced cost, and reducing the long wait time from request to completion.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-95", "start": 743.825, "end": 749.814, "text": "And it also ensures their— that their invested time and money is actually enforceable by the city when there's a violation.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-96", "start": 750.665, "end": 750.97, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-97", "start": 752.7, "end": 754.75, "text": "So first, what is a driveway clearance?", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-98", "start": 755.283, "end": 759.739, "text": "Simply, it's paint that's added to the curb and street for easier driveway access.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-99", "start": 760.6, "end": 765.723, "text": "Driveway clearances are an easy way to visually make drivers aware that they're way too close to the driveway.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-100", "start": 770.408, "end": 777.838, "text": "As our urban neighborhoods grow denser, there's often more stress on the on-street parking system, and drivers sometimes park too close to driveways.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-101", "start": 778.442, "end": 783.059, "text": "When this happens, it reduces visibility getting out of driveways, which presents a safety problem.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-102", "start": 783.813, "end": 798.64, "text": "Driveway clearances help reduce livability frustrations, contribute to fewer confrontations, and make it unnecessary to put makeshift signs, cones, or what have you in the right-of-way to ensure you can simply just get out of your driveway.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-103", "start": 799.442, "end": 804.155, "text": "Between 2021 and 2024, we received over 600 of these requests.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-104", "start": 804.956, "end": 817.398, "text": "Unfortunately, we suspended this service last year because we needed to prioritize a backlog during that time, we were coming up with a— hopefully a simple process that would allow people to perform that work themselves.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-105", "start": 822.318, "end": 831.988, "text": "Currently, by code, people are allowed to paint the driveway throat— that's the driveway and the wings in that picture there— with hardly any involvement from the city.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-106", "start": 832.149, "end": 834.247, "text": "The only requirement is the color of paint.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-107", "start": 834.973, "end": 838.329, "text": "What's not allowed is painting the curb adjacent to the wings.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-108", "start": 838.682, "end": 841.821, "text": "And the streets in the— I'm sorry, the lines in the streets.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-109", "start": 844.729, "end": 847.163, "text": "You just say that you can't paint the lines in the street?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-110", "start": 847.308, "end": 848.71, "text": "Yes, we cannot.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-111", "start": 848.839, "end": 848.952, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-112", "start": 849.016, "end": 854.621, "text": "So currently, this adjustment to code would allow us to allow people to do that.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-113", "start": 856.832, "end": 858.265, "text": "So when— oh, yes.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-114", "start": 858.442, "end": 863.048, "text": "When the city was performing the service, property owners would request and pay the city to install them.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-115", "start": 863.257, "end": 867.476, "text": "The fee was about $383, which was cost recovery at that time.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-116", "start": 868.183, "end": 871.069, "text": "It took about 2 days to complete and is weather dependent.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-117", "start": 871.614, "end": 875.431, "text": "So you may ask, why is the city involved at all?", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-118", "start": 875.88, "end": 877.612, "text": "And that's a very valid question.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-119", "start": 877.708, "end": 879.857, "text": "And are we creating unnecessary bureaucracy?", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-120", "start": 880.594, "end": 884.715, "text": "There are 3 main reasons why this design or this process was designed.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-121", "start": 885.565, "end": 889.43, "text": "First, the city should be aware of any work in the right-of-way.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-122", "start": 889.59, "end": 890.841, "text": "Think of a parking sign.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-123", "start": 891.194, "end": 897.276, "text": "We don't want anyone and everyone putting their own parking signs up in the— in a public and shared space.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-124", "start": 898.035, "end": 899.956, "text": "The second and third points sort of go together.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-125", "start": 900.618, "end": 907.198, "text": "In order for the city to enforce driveway clearances, we have to know that they are official and installed properly.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-126", "start": 907.81, "end": 910.631, "text": "And in order to know it's official, we need to know where they are.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-127", "start": 913.916, "end": 915.555, "text": "And I'm sorry, go back one.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-128", "start": 918.06, "end": 921.019, "text": "Just a final point, going back to the example of parking signs.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-129", "start": 921.686, "end": 924.108, "text": "Parking enforcement only enforces official signs.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-130", "start": 925.859, "end": 935.361, "text": "So what we are proposing is an easier and faster process.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-131", "start": 936.005, "end": 940.336, "text": "Previously, it took 6+ months to complete because there was a backlog of work.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-132", "start": 940.9, "end": 946.294, "text": "Oftentimes, the work took longer because other work was prioritized for safety and ADA access reasons.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-133", "start": 947.055, "end": 949.742, "text": "Instead, we're proposing a self-serve and verify process.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-134", "start": 949.807, "end": 950.05, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-135", "start": 950.759, "end": 952.674, "text": "The resident or business would apply online.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-136", "start": 953.047, "end": 959.082, "text": "Staff would verify that they have permission from the property owner and that there weren't any other issues.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-137", "start": 959.743, "end": 961.193, "text": "The application gets approved.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-138", "start": 961.354, "end": 967.798, "text": "The requester pays the $200 for cost recovery for staff time, and they paint their driveway clearance at their leisure.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-139", "start": 968.605, "end": 974.92, "text": "After the work is complete, the city will inspect the work, make sure it's just done properly, and add it to GIS.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-140", "start": 975.404, "end": 977.138, "text": "And at that point, It's enforceable.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-141", "start": 978.538, "end": 982.414, "text": "So that concludes our presentation, and we're happy to take questions.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-142", "start": 984.249, "end": 985.169, "text": "Well, thank you, Erica.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-143", "start": 985.476, "end": 989.011, "text": "Um, I have questions, but I'll defer to Councilor Green to kick us off.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-144", "start": 989.835, "end": 993.518, "text": "Uh, thank you, Chair Clark, and thank you, Erica, and so much for presenting this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-145", "start": 993.712, "end": 998.358, "text": "Um, this is something that I've wanted for a long time.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-146", "start": 998.423, "end": 1013.387, "text": "I remember, uh, dealing with, uh, a neighbor that just refused to not park in front of my driveway, just constantly, and was like, uh, like somehow I'm the jerk because I'm like, I want to get my car out of my driveway.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-147", "start": 1013.531, "end": 1018.738, "text": "And, and when I was trying to deal with it, it's like, well, sorry, we can't enforce this because you don't have the paint.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-148", "start": 1018.818, "end": 1021.013, "text": "And I was like, this, this feels like a nightmare to me.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-149", "start": 1021.622, "end": 1023.977, "text": "Um, and I feel like a lot of Portlanders probably feel that way.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-150", "start": 1024.041, "end": 1027.486, "text": "So this is a really good example, I think, of, of extremely responsive government.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-151", "start": 1027.55, "end": 1028.559, "text": "So I, so I applaud it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-152", "start": 1028.928, "end": 1029.584, "text": "I do have a question.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-153", "start": 1029.649, "end": 1031.779, "text": "Can you go back to the slide where you show the 2 different costs?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-154", "start": 1031.811, "end": 1031.988, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-155", "start": 1034.219, "end": 1034.636, "text": "Perfect.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-156", "start": 1034.765, "end": 1038.056, "text": "Uh, it's like the second to last slide, I think.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-157", "start": 1039.1, "end": 1039.839, "text": "Yeah, that one right there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-158", "start": 1040.625, "end": 1049.168, "text": "Um, so you said, I think, just briefly that the $200 is cost recovery for staff time, or the review of the application and the verification at the end.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-159", "start": 1049.392, "end": 1049.521, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-160", "start": 1049.569, "end": 1050.035, "text": "Okay, great.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-161", "start": 1050.259, "end": 1055.381, "text": "So then in the status quo, is $382.50 even cost recovery?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-162", "start": 1058, "end": 1061.293, "text": "I have— my honest answer is that I, I have my doubts.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-163", "start": 1061.598, "end": 1066.691, "text": "So at the time we were doing cost recovery for labor, and maybe you'll, you know, this answer a little bit better.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-164", "start": 1067.205, "end": 1073.374, "text": "Um, I'm not sure if it was fully loaded, and it, you know, the every year costs rise.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-165", "start": 1073.807, "end": 1073.952, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-166", "start": 1074.514, "end": 1076.024, "text": "Um, Peter Wojcicki.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-167", "start": 1076.603, "end": 1086.063, "text": "Uh, the $382.50 was actually an inflationary rate change from $360, which was fixed for the last 10 years.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-168", "start": 1086.657, "end": 1089.546, "text": "So it was cost recovery based on many years ago.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-169", "start": 1090.59, "end": 1090.654, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-170", "start": 1090.83, "end": 1096.977, "text": "So I think that what, what we're seeing here is, you know, because I was going to ask, well, why is there a 6-month-plus queue?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-171", "start": 1097.315, "end": 1108.694, "text": "Well, probably because there's not enough resources to clear the queue, and there's not enough resources to clear the queue because you can't really charge enough to, to pay for the people to do the— so, so is that— am I on the right track there?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-172", "start": 1109.432, "end": 1110.09, "text": "Yes, for the most part.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-173", "start": 1111.768, "end": 1112.898, "text": "Okay, excuse me.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-174", "start": 1113.124, "end": 1113.835, "text": "I have no other questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-175", "start": 1113.931, "end": 1114.755, "text": "I think this is great.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-176", "start": 1114.997, "end": 1115.901, "text": "Good bill must pass.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-177", "start": 1117.645, "end": 1120.334, "text": "Uh, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-178", "start": 1120.961, "end": 1121.764, "text": "Thank you, Chair Clark.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-179", "start": 1121.989, "end": 1122.455, "text": "Thank you, Erica.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-180", "start": 1122.567, "end": 1124.656, "text": "Thank you, Peter, for being here and for the work on this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-181", "start": 1124.801, "end": 1129.986, "text": "I, broadly speaking, support this, and, and I'm in alignment with everything that Councilor Green just said.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-182", "start": 1130.762, "end": 1137.792, "text": "Um, I had a couple questions that are also on this slide 7, um, related to the sort of subpoint under number 1 in both cases.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-183", "start": 1138.716, "end": 1140.062, "text": "Um, I'm a renter.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-184", "start": 1141.2, "end": 1150.344, "text": "I have had different situations where it's clearer or not based on where I'm living, whether or not you can park, how close you can park.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-185", "start": 1150.761, "end": 1155.589, "text": "And so I wanted to kind of understand a couple things about the owner approval piece.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-186", "start": 1157.017, "end": 1166.385, "text": "One, can you just speak to, I guess, the necessity of this and if we're obligated under, I'm guessing, state law to require this?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-187", "start": 1168.152, "end": 1171.511, "text": "Um, actually, I don't know if we're required under state law to have this.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-188", "start": 1172.089, "end": 1176.251, "text": "Um, what we're really trying to do is just get maybe more of the authorization.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-189", "start": 1176.524, "end": 1182.501, "text": "Let's say you're the renter, you'll pay the $200, but you say, hey, I've got it covered, I just want to get it painted so I don't have a problem.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-190", "start": 1182.614, "end": 1187.82, "text": "Hopefully your property manager or owner will be amenable to something like that.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-191", "start": 1188.43, "end": 1192.222, "text": "If we do have challenges, we can certainly come back and look at it again.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-192", "start": 1192.656, "end": 1194.567, "text": "Uh, and kind of review a process.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-193", "start": 1195.001, "end": 1208.058, "text": "We're just trying to make sure that, you know, it's— people are in agreement to do this and someone's just not out painting driveway clearances all over the city, which actually wouldn't be all that bad, but there's some costs there involved.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-194", "start": 1208.171, "end": 1210.355, "text": "We want to make sure we're getting them from the right people.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-195", "start": 1210.804, "end": 1214.675, "text": "And typically no one's going to complain about having a driveway clearance.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-196", "start": 1215.462, "end": 1222.275, "text": "It's crossing our T's, dotting our I's, just making sure that we're I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-197", "start": 1222.938, "end": 1227.935, "text": "And as it relates to someone out there just painting driveway clearances, don't threaten me with a good time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-198", "start": 1229.432, "end": 1231.225, "text": "I think that would be amazing if that happened.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-199", "start": 1231.29, "end": 1238.477, "text": "But I also wanted to ask, how is— what is the method for demonstrating owner approval?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-200", "start": 1239.93, "end": 1243.739, "text": "We would typically just ask for an email, you know, from the property owner.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-201", "start": 1243.804, "end": 1248.827, "text": "We were able to look in GIS and pull up Multnomah County tax records to identify who the property owner name or number is.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-202", "start": 1248.876, "end": 1262.52, "text": "If it's a property management company and something simply, an email from, you know, Larry's property management company saying, yes, I approve of having this done.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-203", "start": 1263.596, "end": 1264.479, "text": "Nothing too onerous.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-204", "start": 1264.72, "end": 1268.798, "text": "That was the third question I was going to ask, was about how property managers fit into this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-205", "start": 1268.894, "end": 1272.956, "text": "So do you have that record, or how would you cross-check that?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-206", "start": 1273.952, "end": 1285.746, "text": "Within our GIS and the tax records, they typically identify who the property owner is, and a lot of times the property owner is a property management company or identifies a property management company.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-207", "start": 1286.531, "end": 1289.448, "text": "Um, and it takes a little bit of legwork.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-208", "start": 1289.512, "end": 1292.764, "text": "We haven't— unfortunately, we haven't had to deal with residential properties.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-209", "start": 1292.861, "end": 1296.85, "text": "Most of our requests from property owners has been of, of businesses.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-210", "start": 1297.523, "end": 1301.657, "text": "Um, so, you know, the fringes, and those are related to time zone changes and things along those lines.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-211", "start": 1302.154, "end": 1312.89, "text": "But, um, if we do run into some hiccups with the, the property owner verification, we can look at dropping it since, again, it's not Uh, a bad thing to have a driveway clearance.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-212", "start": 1313.451, "end": 1320.534, "text": "Yeah, and it's also not an area that— in the road itself and the curb, we're not talking about an area that is actually part of the property that is owned, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-213", "start": 1320.598, "end": 1321.223, "text": "That is correct.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-214", "start": 1321.335, "end": 1327.937, "text": "So that, that's my reason for asking, is if this was on the actual property, that obviously would require property owner approval.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-215", "start": 1328.514, "end": 1330.261, "text": "2 quick process questions on this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-216", "start": 1330.453, "end": 1333.498, "text": "One, um, do you have a redline version for Exhibit A?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-217", "start": 1333.722, "end": 1339.715, "text": "Because I see it's just a straight replacement and just for, I think, transparency.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-218", "start": 1341.26, "end": 1342.323, "text": "We can absolutely get that to you.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-219", "start": 1342.484, "end": 1343.852, "text": "Sorry, we don't have it right at the moment.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-220", "start": 1344.174, "end": 1344.544, "text": "No worries.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-221", "start": 1344.801, "end": 1352.216, "text": "And then for this slide that had the diagram, do you have one showing the key would come out?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-222", "start": 1352.619, "end": 1354.507, "text": "It's that dotted line extended, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-223", "start": 1357.319, "end": 1357.432, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-224", "start": 1358.934, "end": 1360.065, "text": "Okay, perfect.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-225", "start": 1360.534, "end": 1361.811, "text": "That is what I was hoping to get.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-226", "start": 1361.991, "end": 1362.171, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-227", "start": 1362.891, "end": 1363.889, "text": "Excuse me.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-228", "start": 1364.053, "end": 1369.832, "text": "Particularly like this example, We want to make sure that it's a 3-foot maximum extension.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-229", "start": 1370.41, "end": 1378.406, "text": "We don't want people— that's one of the reasons why we want it verified and permitted, because we don't want people putting a 5 or 6-foot-wide driveway apron.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-230", "start": 1378.76, "end": 1384.123, "text": "You know, then all of a sudden you've reduced parking on street because everybody's got a 6-foot-wide driveway clearance.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-231", "start": 1384.877, "end": 1386.515, "text": "Okay, yeah, that makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-232", "start": 1386.644, "end": 1395.852, "text": "Do you have, in terms of the paint, It's just the color that's regulated, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-233", "start": 1395.964, "end": 1396.894, "text": "Not that it's—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-234", "start": 1396.894, "end": 1397.07, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-235", "start": 1397.214, "end": 1397.326, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-236", "start": 1397.39, "end": 1403.864, "text": "You go to Home Depot or Miller Paint, or actually it's Rodda Miller now, and ask for traffic yellow.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-237", "start": 1404.105, "end": 1405.018, "text": "They'll have traffic yellow.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-238", "start": 1405.707, "end": 1405.9, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-239", "start": 1406.268, "end": 1406.813, "text": "Thank you so much.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-240", "start": 1408.111, "end": 1408.319, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-241", "start": 1408.368, "end": 1408.608, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-242", "start": 1408.656, "end": 1409.505, "text": "That was one of my questions.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-243", "start": 1409.569, "end": 1410.627, "text": "It's called traffic yellow.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-244", "start": 1410.691, "end": 1413.928, "text": "It's not like a regulation paint or something that you have to buy.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-245", "start": 1414.874, "end": 1416.044, "text": "It's just traffic yellow.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-246", "start": 1417.566, "end": 1420.581, "text": "I had some questions just about the past.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-247", "start": 1421.496, "end": 1424.527, "text": "Has this been a very subscribed program in the past?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-248", "start": 1424.575, "end": 1428.28, "text": "You said there was a waiting list of 600, but have you had lots before?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-249", "start": 1429.29, "end": 1429.948, "text": "What's the volume?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-250", "start": 1430.493, "end": 1434.279, "text": "We were doing a couple hundred a year on average.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-251", "start": 1434.968, "end": 1442.121, "text": "I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but it was quite popular, you know, a lot of people wanting it.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-252", "start": 1442.506, "end": 1453.867, "text": "And one of the other added benefits that we don't bring up on this is, is that after 5 or 7 or 10 years, we'd be like, it's— you're gonna have to pay again to maintain it.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-253", "start": 1454.301, "end": 1465.182, "text": "Whereas once you've gone through us and permitted it and you're clearly repainting, we'll make sure that's within the permit process that they identify that you're clearly repainting what was there before.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-254", "start": 1465.937, "end": 1467.108, "text": "You could repaint it every year.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-255", "start": 1467.558, "end": 1474.298, "text": "You know, it's nice and sunny out last day, you know, a week ago, you paint it for the for the fall and winter weather so it stands out.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-256", "start": 1475.485, "end": 1478.452, "text": "But you— what you're saying is you don't have to reapply to, to re—.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-257", "start": 1478.452, "end": 1478.821, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-258", "start": 1479.014, "end": 1479.431, "text": "Once—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-259", "start": 1479.655, "end": 1483.152, "text": "That's one of the bonuses of, uh, making sure we go through this permit program.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-260", "start": 1483.361, "end": 1488.847, "text": "It becomes an asset in, in our inventory, and as long as you're maintaining it to the conditions that it was before—.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-261", "start": 1489.6, "end": 1490.001, "text": "So if a—.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-262", "start": 1490.258, "end": 1500.717, "text": "You call somebody in for parking enforcement and they all of a sudden realize that that curb line is now 5 or 6, it's creeped its way out real far, they'll be like, uh, I don't think this one's legal anymore.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-263", "start": 1501.005, "end": 1508.361, "text": "And, and we would be able to go back and pull the permit from the Amanda system to identify that it was permitted at 3 feet, not 6 or 7.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-264", "start": 1508.409, "end": 1511.671, "text": "Or it's so faded that, uh, you can't really tell.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-265", "start": 1511.783, "end": 1512.121, "text": "It's there, right?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-266", "start": 1512.876, "end": 1522.34, "text": "Under this process, you pay the $200 and you're able to repaint it whenever you want, as opposed to paying the $363 or whatever every time you need to repaint.", "speaker": "Erica Namio-Kniebel" }, { "id": "cue-267", "start": 1522.838, "end": 1523.352, "text": "I think it's super.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-268", "start": 1523.416, "end": 1524.573, "text": "I don't think I've ever seen one.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-269", "start": 1524.622, "end": 1526.967, "text": "Have you ever— my colleagues, have you ever seen one of these?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-270", "start": 1527.032, "end": 1527.546, "text": "You've seen one?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-271", "start": 1527.98, "end": 1529.249, "text": "I don't think— I've never seen one.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-272", "start": 1530.068, "end": 1530.582, "text": "It's not often.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-273", "start": 1531.193, "end": 1532.301, "text": "I, I know I'm a violator.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-274", "start": 1532.799, "end": 1539.176, "text": "Um, I can tell you that I creep up, you know, into that past the 3-foot maximum.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-275", "start": 1539.465, "end": 1543.304, "text": "I'm, I'm, you know, I know I'm a violator, so this is, this is a good thing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-276", "start": 1543.657, "end": 1544.572, "text": "It's a really good thing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-277", "start": 1545.327, "end": 1559.985, "text": "Um, I did want to ask though, um, and some of my other, my colleagues may be interested in this, is I've had an interest for quite a while in having, um, Citizens have more ability to do more of these kinds of things in their neighborhood.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-278", "start": 1560.658, "end": 1565.502, "text": "And I'm wondering, um, and maybe— I don't know if Erica and Peter can answer this.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-279", "start": 1565.566, "end": 1578.604, "text": "I know there are other people from PBOT in the audience, but when you do a, um, a plaza or those kinds of things, when we close off a street, are we allowing the neighbors to do that painting?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-280", "start": 1578.797, "end": 1579.021, "text": "Is it—.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-281", "start": 1579.021, "end": 1580.096, "text": "How is that regulated?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-282", "start": 1580.144, "end": 1580.849, "text": "I'm just curious.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-283", "start": 1581.587, "end": 1583.655, "text": "Hi, Wendy Cully, interim PBOT director.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-284", "start": 1584.071, "end": 1588.672, "text": "Yeah, so we have different, um, things that happen in the right-of-way where we involve the public.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-285", "start": 1588.736, "end": 1594.475, "text": "One is street intersection painting that is, uh, almost exclusively by volunteers.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-286", "start": 1594.587, "end": 1600.502, "text": "People sign up, we help get the materials there, make sure that they have the right skid resistance and things like that.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-287", "start": 1600.582, "end": 1605.616, "text": "But those are largely, um, installed by the community and the neighbors.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-288", "start": 1605.728, "end": 1614.837, "text": "We are also working with some neighborhood associations right now, um, to allow them to paint yellow curb where there are already no parking signs.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-289", "start": 1615.03, "end": 1628.796, "text": "So like at intersections where we want to make it clear that you don't park all the way up to the corner, and it's already posted with a sign, we are— we do have some agreements, and we're trying to grow that to allow folks to paint the curb yellow there.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-290", "start": 1629.165, "end": 1633.679, "text": "And then we just have some one-offs where somebody says, can we do some painted curb extensions?", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-291", "start": 1633.743, "end": 1635.317, "text": "And we work with them to get that done.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-292", "start": 1635.43, "end": 1642.715, "text": "So yeah, we do have a process for that, and our traffic operations section is really trying to grow that movement.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-293", "start": 1642.956, "end": 1653.106, "text": "I will caveat that with saying that we do draw the line on like having them install traffic control devices like stop signs and things like that.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-294", "start": 1653.219, "end": 1662.343, "text": "We have had those requests before, but because there are liabilities associated with certain types of pavement markings and signage that we do have to regulate those.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-295", "start": 1662.455, "end": 1662.776, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-296", "start": 1663.177, "end": 1667.554, "text": "And we, the city does have to take ownership and maintenance responsibility for those.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-297", "start": 1668.211, "end": 1669.59, "text": "Okay, I appreciate that, Wendy.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-298", "start": 1669.67, "end": 1689.354, "text": "I think I'm really interested in how we can push the envelope on this some, and we can talk about this offline, but I'm really interested in what it would take for PBOT to allow neighbors to do other kinds of striping, whether it's crosswalk striping, those kind of other safety measures.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-299", "start": 1689.787, "end": 1695.078, "text": "I'm glad you're, you're doing the the curb painting, I think that's great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-300", "start": 1695.623, "end": 1701.684, "text": "Is there a, um, is there a fee for the other, the other activities you've described, the plazas and the—.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-301", "start": 1702.518, "end": 1704.346, "text": "Um, I think it, it depends.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-302", "start": 1704.458, "end": 1709.189, "text": "Typically the, um, community intersection painting, there, I think there's a small fee.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-303", "start": 1709.413, "end": 1718.97, "text": "And, um, but the plazas we do on, uh, PBOT does on their own or in partnership with, um, uh, a business or others that are going to help activate the plaza.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-304", "start": 1719.114, "end": 1728.473, "text": "So there's some some— we foot the bill for most of the initial installation in plazas, if they're defined plazas.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-305", "start": 1729.787, "end": 1737.51, "text": "But the curb painting for better visibility for no parking, we are not— the community's paying for that.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-306", "start": 1737.575, "end": 1740.01, "text": "So I think there's a mix of that as well.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-307", "start": 1740.683, "end": 1745.571, "text": "And so our neighbors would apply to the— you said the traffic— what was it again?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-308", "start": 1745.635, "end": 1764.662, "text": "The traffic yeah, right now we're— we have— we are making agreements with neighborhood associations, and I think, um, if folks want to, they would contact, um, 823-SAFE or 311, and they would get funneled into our traffic investigations, traffic operations section, uh, to talk about that.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-309", "start": 1764.726, "end": 1781.607, "text": "But again, we're, we're, um, kind of— I wouldn't say we're in the infancy because we have moved some of this forward, but we are still trying to figure out how broadly this can be applied, recognizing, you know, we've heard this from councilors before that, yeah, how can encourage community to be partners in this.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-310", "start": 1781.703, "end": 1787.747, "text": "So we're happy to keep working on that and flesh out what a bigger program might look like.", "speaker": "Wendy Cully" }, { "id": "cue-311", "start": 1787.811, "end": 1800.925, "text": "Well, I, I know I'm interested, and I think some of my colleagues might be interested in promoting this, maybe in our newsletters or other ways that neighborhood associations can, can be involved in making these kind of safety improvements in their neighborhood.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-312", "start": 1802.224, "end": 1815.751, "text": "And maybe there could be a pilot or something like that to do crosswalk painting I know that's probably more of a liability issue for you, but I'm certainly interested in pursuing these options.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-313", "start": 1815.847, "end": 1820.478, "text": "I think it's also community building as well as safety and prevention.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-314", "start": 1820.975, "end": 1825.221, "text": "So I appreciate, I appreciate what you are doing and what you're willing to pursue.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-315", "start": 1825.782, "end": 1834.515, "text": "I, I think this would be an opportune time to talk about the Adopt-a-Catchbasin program as well for the neighbors as it's fall, going out there and clearing your catch basins.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-316", "start": 1835.317, "end": 1837.466, "text": "Loading that up into your, your yard debris bin.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-317", "start": 1838.3, "end": 1841.636, "text": "I definitely know that people see me doing that in my neighborhood.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-318", "start": 1842.55, "end": 1847.97, "text": "Would you mind maybe sending us a follow-up email on that about the Adopt a Catch Basin?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-319", "start": 1848.163, "end": 1854.337, "text": "And some of us might want to promote these kinds of things and promote the, the curb painting as well.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-320", "start": 1855.123, "end": 1856.037, "text": "I, I know I would.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-321", "start": 1856.101, "end": 1861.602, "text": "I don't know about my colleagues, but I'm definitely interested in this, and I'm glad to hear that you're working with the neighborhood associations.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-322", "start": 1861.714, "end": 1863.109, "text": "I really, really appreciate that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-323", "start": 1863.718, "end": 1865.306, "text": "Any other questions or comments?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-324", "start": 1865.562, "end": 1866.974, "text": "Councilor Kanal, did you have another?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-325", "start": 1867.31, "end": 1867.727, "text": "Yeah, thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-326", "start": 1867.791, "end": 1873.228, "text": "I, I really appreciate you bringing up everything with relation to sort of expanding this, and thanks for being here, Director Cully.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-327", "start": 1873.484, "end": 1886.505, "text": "Um, I think the, the 2 places I'm most interested in this are, uh, soft daylighting, meaning the, the red paint, um, but not a physical, you know, as distinguished from hard daylighting with a physical barrier to parking there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-328", "start": 1888.718, "end": 1889.52, "text": "As an interim step.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-329", "start": 1889.841, "end": 1892.294, "text": "And then crosswalks as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-330", "start": 1892.406, "end": 1893.112, "text": "I agree completely.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-331", "start": 1893.449, "end": 1911.521, "text": "The other thing I wanted to kind of float is the idea of if there is somebody who's interested in doing a lot of these, you know, I imagine the inspection and verification cost to PBOT is lower if there were 10 of these on the same street than, you know, 200 times 10.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-332", "start": 1911.97, "end": 1925.995, "text": "So some sort of way of either working proactively to sort of accredit a group or to do a bulk discount effectively if it's within the same area and could all be expected at once to try and allow folks to like to do a full block.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-333", "start": 1926.636, "end": 1934.505, "text": "I think that that would be really helpful to lowering the cost of this for PBOT as well as for the folks who are trying to do the right thing and paint.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-334", "start": 1934.986, "end": 1935.162, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-335", "start": 1935.562, "end": 1936.284, "text": "Appreciate that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-336", "start": 1936.332, "end": 1936.748, "text": "Great idea.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-337", "start": 1936.909, "end": 1937.854, "text": "That's a great idea.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-338", "start": 1938.271, "end": 1944.617, "text": "Is there— well, I don't know, Erica or Pete, are you the people that neighborhood associations contact for this or?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-339", "start": 1945.672, "end": 1946.947, "text": "Who's the point of contact?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-340", "start": 1949.041, "end": 1951.395, "text": "It's going to be my group, PBOT Parking Control.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-341", "start": 1952.606, "end": 1956.745, "text": "And that's our email as well, pbotparkingcontrol@portlandoregon.gov.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-342", "start": 1957.438, "end": 1963.942, "text": "We also have a phone number, 823-7275.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-343", "start": 1964.119, "end": 1966.359, "text": "But we take in all aspects of parking requests across the city.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-344", "start": 1966.488, "end": 1970.628, "text": "So businesses needing time zone changes and things along those lines or truck loading zones.", "speaker": "Peter Wojcicki" }, { "id": "cue-345", "start": 1970.992, "end": 1973.252, "text": "Well, I'll bet you they have driveways they'd like to paint too.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-346", "start": 1973.941, "end": 1975.592, "text": "Um, but thank you, thank you all so much.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-347", "start": 1975.944, "end": 1978.397, "text": "Um, and great ideas, colleagues.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-348", "start": 1978.445, "end": 1991.427, "text": "So, uh, if there aren't any other questions or comments, um, would someone like to make a motion to move ordinance document number 2026387 to the full council with the recommendation passed?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-349", "start": 1991.604, "end": 1993.046, "text": "So moved.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-350", "start": 1993.19, "end": 1993.479, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-351", "start": 1993.832, "end": 1994.168, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-352", "start": 1995.034, "end": 1998.415, "text": "Councilor Kanal has moved, Councilor Green has seconded.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-353", "start": 1998.48, "end": 2001.206, "text": "The motion's, um, Ready to go, no more discussion.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-354", "start": 2002.47, "end": 2003.482, "text": "Uh, Diane, will you please call the roll?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-355", "start": 2003.932, "end": 2006.295, "text": "Uh, before I take roll, we do have one testifier.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-356", "start": 2006.6, "end": 2006.922, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-357", "start": 2007.484, "end": 2008.24, "text": "Oh, sorry about that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-358", "start": 2008.433, "end": 2008.513, "text": "Whoops.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-359", "start": 2008.577, "end": 2009.06, "text": "That's okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-360", "start": 2009.526, "end": 2010.57, "text": "Just sped right over that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-361", "start": 2010.876, "end": 2013.208, "text": "I have Alejandro Stein signed up.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-362", "start": 2013.922, "end": 2014.262, "text": "Terrific.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-363", "start": 2015.073, "end": 2016.192, "text": "We needed a speed bump.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-364", "start": 2021.303, "end": 2026.068, "text": "I don't see Alejandro coming to the table, so final call for Alejandro.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-365", "start": 2027.527, "end": 2027.884, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-366", "start": 2028.599, "end": 2031.977, "text": "We'll assume he was for it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-367", "start": 2033.228, "end": 2034.576, "text": "Let me go back to the vote then.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-368", "start": 2036.016, "end": 2038.254, "text": "So moved by Kanal, seconded by Green.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-369", "start": 2039.172, "end": 2039.382, "text": "Green?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-370", "start": 2041.491, "end": 2041.588, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-371", "start": 2042.715, "end": 2043.778, "text": "Kanal?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-372", "start": 2044.164, "end": 2044.309, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-373", "start": 2045.34, "end": 2045.663, "text": "Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-374", "start": 2046.083, "end": 2046.131, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-375", "start": 2046.745, "end": 2047.133, "text": "Clark?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-376", "start": 2047.375, "end": 2047.505, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-377", "start": 2049.169, "end": 2061.529, "text": "With 4 ayes and 1 absent, the motion to refer the ordinance document number 2026 386-387 to council with the recommendation it be passed has, uh, been approved.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-378", "start": 2061.77, "end": 2062.027, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-379", "start": 2062.412, "end": 2062.99, "text": "Great, thank you.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-380", "start": 2063.07, "end": 2064.129, "text": "Thank you all for being here.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-381", "start": 2064.257, "end": 2066.857, "text": "Great program, and we want to see it expanded.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-382", "start": 2067.948, "end": 2069.023, "text": "We'll, we'll work on that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-383", "start": 2069.296, "end": 2070.676, "text": "Appreciate you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-384", "start": 2071.302, "end": 2076.453, "text": "Um, colleagues, I'm going to ask you if you would be willing to take, uh, maybe a 15-minute break.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-385", "start": 2076.774, "end": 2079.342, "text": "Is that possible before we head to the next item?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-386", "start": 2079.582, "end": 2080.401, "text": "I really appreciate that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-387", "start": 2080.577, "end": 2082.695, "text": "So why don't we come back at 10:15?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-388", "start": 2083.513, "end": 2083.818, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-389", "start": 3694.632, "end": 3696.72, "text": "My apologies to the people in the audience.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-390", "start": 3696.96, "end": 3702.211, "text": "We had asked the committee to reconvene at 10:15, but I know a couple of our members are off working on something.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-391", "start": 3702.982, "end": 3707.666, "text": "Some of you you may know that, but we'll convene as soon as we get a quorum.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-392", "start": 3707.989, "end": 3708.863, "text": "I apologize.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-393", "start": 3709.688, "end": 3711.5, "text": "Maybe I hear them coming.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-394", "start": 3711.79, "end": 3713.997, "text": "Let's see.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-395", "start": 3716.93, "end": 3718.221, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-396", "start": 3767.594, "end": 3770.472, "text": "Well, I just apologize to the audience.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-397", "start": 3771.035, "end": 3772.258, "text": "Okay, great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-398", "start": 3772.338, "end": 3775.494, "text": "We'll reconvene now that my colleagues are back.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-399", "start": 3776.853, "end": 3780.008, "text": "Diana, could you please read the next issue?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-400", "start": 3781.293, "end": 3789.253, "text": "Item number 3, document number 2026-385, committee discussion on automated vehicles.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-401", "start": 3789.688, "end": 3791.463, "text": "All right, thank you, Diana.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-402", "start": 3791.948, "end": 3801.553, "text": "So, um, colleagues, at our last discussion, our last meeting, we were talking about an ordinance, and I think it's clear that there wasn't support for putting anything like that together.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-403", "start": 3802.264, "end": 3812.416, "text": "Um, however, today what I was hoping— and I've left, um, everybody's, um, chair, uh, a list of all the policy issues that were involved in that draft that we could kind of go thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-404", "start": 3812.496, "end": 3849.226, "text": "Before we go through, um, and start a conversation, um, we, uh, I, I want to note that our government affairs folks are in the audience because this was partially on my part motivated by the fact that the legislature will try to, um, preempt our ability to regulate, um, our ability to have anything to do with, uh, automated vehicles, autonomous vehicles, just like they've done in, you know, the 15 other cities where, uh, there are autonomous vehicles operating.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-405", "start": 3849.338, "end": 3855.642, "text": "Those cities had absolutely no ability to influence that when their state legislatures preempted them.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-406", "start": 3855.754, "end": 3863.855, "text": "So that was my motivation, is what can we discuss, get on the books, whatever, to prepare for what will be coming from the legislature.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-407", "start": 3864.175, "end": 3869.136, "text": "I can guarantee you that the bill that was introduced In the short session, we'll be coming back.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-408", "start": 3870.036, "end": 3876.547, "text": "I don't know if it will include any changes or not, but I think that we need to be prepared for that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-409", "start": 3877.275, "end": 3882.776, "text": "Hence, I want to go through what those policy issues are with OGR listening in on that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-410", "start": 3886.326, "end": 3887.488, "text": "That was my motivation.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-411", "start": 3887.633, "end": 3900.956, "text": "So if there is a statewide policy discussion that would likely preempt our authority, I think we need to engage in trying to figure out what, what we absolutely will need when, when they're trying to preempt us.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-412", "start": 3901.553, "end": 3912.321, "text": "You know, I personally, I think I mentioned this at our last meeting, I have my, all my own reservations and my own concerns about the industry and the impacts that it's going to have on our labor market, um, safety.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-413", "start": 3913.623, "end": 3932.837, "text": "Um, there, I know that they will tout their safety record, um, their comparative but I want to be sure that we give our Office of Government Relations some ammunition coming from us about what may be inevitable.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-414", "start": 3934.12, "end": 3939.345, "text": "I think at the end, after we go through these policy concepts, I think we'll want to talk about a moratorium.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-415", "start": 3939.426, "end": 3945.998, "text": "And I know we mentioned that at our last meeting, and I think my colleagues may have the rudiments of a proposal for that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-416", "start": 3946.318, "end": 3947.825, "text": "We also have PBOT in the audience.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-417", "start": 3947.905, "end": 3947.969, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-418", "start": 3949.002, "end": 3956.576, "text": "To answer questions, particularly on crafting any piece of this or crafting a moratorium.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-419", "start": 3957.012, "end": 3960.133, "text": "I think they'll, they'll want to weigh in on that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-420", "start": 3962.506, "end": 3973.884, "text": "Just a little note too that in the Portland area, we do have different industries that are involved in this, aside from all of our friends, the drivers of Uber and Lyft.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-421", "start": 3973.97, "end": 3985.285, "text": "Uh, we do have, um, the North American Research and Development Engineering Office of JLR, which is working on testing vehicles, technology, and their components.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-422", "start": 3985.942, "end": 3990.046, "text": "We have Daimler in North America, which is in Portland.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-423", "start": 3990.19, "end": 3994.79, "text": "Their headquarters are located here, and they're working on self-driving trucks.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-424", "start": 3996.104, "end": 4002.387, "text": "Um, anyway, there— we have lots of angles to this issue that we need to be aware of.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-425", "start": 4003.675, "end": 4010.714, "text": "And it's important that I think that we allow our industry folks in the city to continue to do what they're doing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-426", "start": 4011.067, "end": 4012.753, "text": "It's important to our economy.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-427", "start": 4014.998, "end": 4018.396, "text": "But we also really need to encourage safe operations of this technology.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-428", "start": 4018.46, "end": 4019.797, "text": "I think that's kind of the bottom line.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-429", "start": 4020.006, "end": 4026.988, "text": "That's, I think, what the PBOT research, the PBOT outreach showed, that safety is the absolute number one issue.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-430", "start": 4027.037, "end": 4027.608, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-431", "start": 4029.202, "end": 4037.088, "text": "So, colleagues, we're hoping that our other colleague, Councilor Smith, may tune in or may show up at some point.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-432", "start": 4037.136, "end": 4045.375, "text": "I know she was speaking somewhere at 10:30, but why don't we go ahead, and if it's okay with you all, why don't we just start at the top of the list?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-433", "start": 4046.692, "end": 4051.221, "text": "We have the, I think, 8 policy concepts.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-434", "start": 4052.409, "end": 4054.401, "text": "Is it okay if we just kind of walk right down the list?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-435", "start": 4054.449, "end": 4054.513, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-436", "start": 4054.61, "end": 4056.744, "text": "We can go down the list or we can bounce around.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-437", "start": 4056.842, "end": 4065.522, "text": "Either way, we had a lot of good discussion at the last meeting, particularly on— which one was it?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-438", "start": 4068.33, "end": 4069.808, "text": "The privacy standards, number 6.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-439", "start": 4069.889, "end": 4071.042, "text": "We talked quite a bit about that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-440", "start": 4071.448, "end": 4074.193, "text": "Let's just start at the top, if that's okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-441", "start": 4076.35, "end": 4084.845, "text": "The first item was establish Uh, AVs in the private fire code with definitions.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-442", "start": 4085.054, "end": 4092.713, "text": "I don't know that we need to get into that, but, um, I know that that's something that PBOT has been working on.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-443", "start": 4093.612, "end": 4098.237, "text": "Um, but maybe the people from PBOT— do we want them to come to the table now?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-444", "start": 4099.168, "end": 4104.113, "text": "Or the PBOT folks, do you want to— you want to join us in this conversation?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-445", "start": 4104.306, "end": 4106.542, "text": "We can ask you questions, or maybe we can have some feedback.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-446", "start": 4106.865, "end": 4108.093, "text": "I know— what happened to them?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-447", "start": 4108.659, "end": 4109.063, "text": "Where are they?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-448", "start": 4109.208, "end": 4109.709, "text": "Oh, there they are.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-449", "start": 4109.855, "end": 4111.535, "text": "Okay, I can't, I can't see you guys.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-450", "start": 4112.52, "end": 4112.795, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-451", "start": 4113.038, "end": 4114.059, "text": "They need some daylighting.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-452", "start": 4114.415, "end": 4118.514, "text": "Yeah, thanks, thanks so much for being here, for joining us.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-453", "start": 4121.075, "end": 4126.684, "text": "Um, we appreciate the work that you put into this already, quite a bit of work.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-454", "start": 4128.083, "end": 4136.827, "text": "Did you want to say anything about the first part, that establishing AVs and their private-for-hire I know that you worked on definitions.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-455", "start": 4136.939, "end": 4138.606, "text": "Do we need to say anything about that?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-456", "start": 4139.183, "end": 4139.327, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-457", "start": 4140.065, "end": 4141.732, "text": "Shoshana Cohen, PBOT Chief of Staff.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-458", "start": 4141.988, "end": 4144.81, "text": "I think this one is sort of foundational to all the rest.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-459", "start": 4145.419, "end": 4150.212, "text": "If you're going to set up the regulatory code, this is the first step.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-460", "start": 4150.709, "end": 4155.999, "text": "But it is, you know, sort of dependent on if you are going to move forward with regulations or not.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-461", "start": 4156.095, "end": 4173.812, "text": "But it's, you know, we were just suggesting using industry standard definitions and establishing one of the key pieces of this is that the legislation that we saw last year at the state tried to say that automated private for hire were not private for hire.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-462", "start": 4173.956, "end": 4175.303, "text": "They tried to define them differently.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-463", "start": 4175.913, "end": 4188.63, "text": "So in order— if we wanted to regulate them at the local level, we'd want to sort of clearly— we believe that they are part of the private for hire industry, sort of the next iteration, but we would want to get that in the code to make sure we could regulate them.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-464", "start": 4188.71, "end": 4192.861, "text": "What I hear you saying is that— and folks, we can just have our a free-flowing conversation here.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-465", "start": 4192.974, "end": 4195.948, "text": "I don't want to have to, you know, regulate this very much.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-466", "start": 4196.061, "end": 4196.999, "text": "I think we should just be free-flowing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-467", "start": 4198.538, "end": 4201.706, "text": "Um, but the legis— we want the legislature to do this, right?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-468", "start": 4201.77, "end": 4206.178, "text": "If they're going to preempt us, we want them to address this issue in a way that we want them to address it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-469", "start": 4207.881, "end": 4211.726, "text": "Um, I mean, I think we don't want them to preempt us first.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-470", "start": 4213.096, "end": 4218.266, "text": "And, uh, we— if— yeah, that's a complicated way to answer.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-471", "start": 4219.073, "end": 4238.066, "text": "If there was going to be state legislation and it didn't preempt us, then I think we would also want to be clear that automated, you know, Waymos, other companies like that are part of the private-for-hire industry so that they could be regulated even at the state level.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-472", "start": 4238.147, "end": 4241.326, "text": "We don't— when they were trying to say they're a whole different type of—.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-473", "start": 4241.423, "end": 4245.215, "text": "That's what I'm trying to get across is what, um, what's important.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-474", "start": 4245.901, "end": 4247.223, "text": "Can, can I ask a clarifying question?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-475", "start": 4247.319, "end": 4247.722, "text": "Yeah, sure.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-476", "start": 4248.287, "end": 4251.898, "text": "Can you define what you mean by the word regulate before we even get into this?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-477", "start": 4252.6, "end": 4261.724, "text": "Because I think there's a, um, there's a connotation associated with that that means allow but create limits on.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-478", "start": 4262.481, "end": 4275.343, "text": "And I want to make sure that that is a shared understanding of what that term means, because if so, then I'd like to go to the very top of the page above the number 1 to the word regulatory in in the, in the header, uh, as a starting point.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-479", "start": 4275.68, "end": 4278.616, "text": "So I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page about how you're using that word.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-480", "start": 4279.996, "end": 4288.771, "text": "Uh, I believe we're using the similar way that, you know, just like the other private for hire, just like, you know, I mean, there's a whole bunch of things within private for hire.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-481", "start": 4288.916, "end": 4292.702, "text": "We've— we have regulated that industry for 100 years, I believe.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-482", "start": 4293.231, "end": 4316.08, "text": "Um, and that means, you know, having permit, making, making sure that we are able to put some policy framework around how they come in, that they, you know, they can't come— we require permits, we require, you know, there are vehicle regulations, there are rules around how many traffic violations drivers can have, things like that.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-483", "start": 4316.128, "end": 4322.273, "text": "Sort of all of the regulations, yes, that they can come in and we can put some rules around them, I guess, is sort of the basic question.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-484", "start": 4322.322, "end": 4325.917, "text": "So just to be clear, Um, we— I didn't get this from PBOT.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-485", "start": 4326.061, "end": 4327.73, "text": "This is generated by my office.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-486", "start": 4327.923, "end": 4330.555, "text": "We just, we just pulled it from PBOT.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-487", "start": 4330.876, "end": 4333.204, "text": "Yeah, yeah, this is our doing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-488", "start": 4333.284, "end": 4338.163, "text": "And this is helpful because it is summarizing what we talked about last time, so I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-489", "start": 4338.34, "end": 4338.596, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-490", "start": 4338.901, "end": 4345.225, "text": "Um, I, I, I guess my underlying question to that is, is the idea of a ban is not a subset of regulation, then?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-491", "start": 4345.482, "end": 4346.589, "text": "That's a separate concept.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-492", "start": 4346.637, "end": 4353.636, "text": "And so I would like— I think it makes more sense to, to go to first principles on this, but, um, I, I'll defer to your—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-493", "start": 4353.989, "end": 4357.65, "text": "When you mean you, you want to talk about a ban versus regulation?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-494", "start": 4357.778, "end": 4366.736, "text": "Because I— my concern is that we are going to get preempted, and that's where I started, is that's why I want to talk about what are the things that are important to us.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-495", "start": 4367.796, "end": 4369.706, "text": "Um, and I'm happy to do that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-496", "start": 4369.963, "end": 4371.938, "text": "Yeah, that's what I really— that's why I want to go through this list.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-497", "start": 4371.986, "end": 4374.635, "text": "This is the initial list of policy concepts.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-498", "start": 4374.956, "end": 4375.823, "text": "Can we bring our policy?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-499", "start": 4375.903, "end": 4376.497, "text": "Absolutely.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-500", "start": 4376.642, "end": 4377.541, "text": "That's what I said.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-501", "start": 4377.589, "end": 4383.933, "text": "I want to deal with— well, I, I actually said a moratorium, but you've got concepts, you have a different set of concepts.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-502", "start": 4384.03, "end": 4390.683, "text": "So I think there's some parallels here, but, um, yep, can we just go down this list really quickly then?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-503", "start": 4390.829, "end": 4390.877, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-504", "start": 4390.926, "end": 4392.932, "text": "And we'll get to your, um, your handout.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-505", "start": 4392.996, "end": 4397.22, "text": "And I don't know if anybody in the audience has any of these, but I don't think we posted this.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-506", "start": 4397.853, "end": 4401.716, "text": "So the second part is— so I, I heard you, Shoshana, really appreciate that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-507", "start": 4401.992, "end": 4412.823, "text": "Um, uh, The, the last form of the state legislation did not address number one in a way that we would prefer.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-508", "start": 4414.13, "end": 4420.326, "text": "Number 2 is the, the caps on the number and the phasing in the number.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-509", "start": 4421.165, "end": 4429.292, "text": "Just for context, um, I know that some cities have well over 1,000 cars driving around.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-510", "start": 4429.875, "end": 4432.408, "text": "I, I Right.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-511", "start": 4433.326, "end": 4439.678, "text": "I think that the PBOT draft, which is reflected here, talked about a phasing in.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-512", "start": 4441.452, "end": 4457.955, "text": "But I don't know that that is anything that we— if the legislature proceeds, if that's anything that they could put in something, or maybe notification of phasing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-513", "start": 4458.036, "end": 4458.246, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-514", "start": 4458.887, "end": 4464.973, "text": "Because I assume that's what the companies that want to have autonomous vehicles are going to do.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-515", "start": 4465.069, "end": 4467.06, "text": "They're going to, they're going to phase them in on their own.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-516", "start": 4467.718, "end": 4472.038, "text": "But I don't know if there was any, anything in the last bill that addressed phasing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-517", "start": 4472.15, "end": 4472.632, "text": "Probably not.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-518", "start": 4472.792, "end": 4473.033, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-519", "start": 4473.595, "end": 4473.932, "text": "I don't think so.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-520", "start": 4473.98, "end": 4482.683, "text": "I think this is one of the examples of why it would be hard at a state, you know, if this were to happen at the state, we would, I think, lose this level of control.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-521", "start": 4482.747, "end": 4485.817, "text": "I don't know how we could do I think that's right.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-522", "start": 4486.693, "end": 4496.476, "text": "Uh, testing permit metrics, that's, um, that's not something that they discussed at the state level.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-523", "start": 4498.037, "end": 4498.522, "text": "Uh, no.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-524", "start": 4498.861, "end": 4500.526, "text": "Uh, hi, for the record, my name is Hannah Morrison.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-525", "start": 4500.704, "end": 4506.412, "text": "Um, so in the state legislation that was proposed last year, there was no framework around testing or commercial operations.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-526", "start": 4506.46, "end": 4507.365, "text": "There was no distinction.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-527", "start": 4507.43, "end": 4509.717, "text": "It would just have allowed kind of any operation.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-528", "start": 4512.736, "end": 4514.291, "text": "All right, skipping ahead then.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-529", "start": 4514.724, "end": 4517.273, "text": "Um, permit suspension.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-530", "start": 4518.491, "end": 4522.675, "text": "We sort of talked about 2 strikes, you're out, is sort of the way I phrase it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-531", "start": 4523.637, "end": 4530.145, "text": "Um, do we want to— you have any comments about that, how we would regulate that, how they might regulate that?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-532", "start": 4530.209, "end": 4532.325, "text": "Do they even address that in the state legislation?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-533", "start": 4533.015, "end": 4534.938, "text": "Uh, the state— yeah, go ahead.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-534", "start": 4535.964, "end": 4538.433, "text": "Uh, for the record, Jacob Sherman, Portland Bureau of Transportation.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-535", "start": 4538.866, "end": 4549.894, "text": "I think our perspective on the proposed legislation in the 2027 short session was that it was inadequate what was being proposed in terms of suspension or revocation.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-536", "start": 4550.712, "end": 4563.937, "text": "The triggers that were included in that piece of legislation really only allowed revocation or suspension if somebody was seriously maimed or killed from an automated vehicle.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-537", "start": 4564.498, "end": 4571.455, "text": "I think as we've discussed, you know, we have a very high standard for human drivers.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-538", "start": 4572.128, "end": 4573.811, "text": "The automated vehicle companies are often—.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-539", "start": 4573.811, "end": 4573.859, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-540", "start": 4573.94, "end": 4578.596, "text": "Often touting their safety standards as being higher than human drivers.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-541", "start": 4579.094, "end": 4585.099, "text": "So what we've proposed here is let's hold an automated vehicle company to the same standard as human drivers.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-542", "start": 4585.356, "end": 4587.717, "text": "That's the 2 traffic violations, right?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-543", "start": 4588.006, "end": 4588.343, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-544", "start": 4588.423, "end": 4590.206, "text": "Councilor Koyama Lane, did you have a comment on this?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-545", "start": 4590.35, "end": 4590.784, "text": "On number 2?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-546", "start": 4590.928, "end": 4591.956, "text": "Oh, on number 2.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-547", "start": 4592.277, "end": 4592.775, "text": "Where are we right now?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-548", "start": 4592.823, "end": 4594.926, "text": "We're on number 4, but that's okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-549", "start": 4595.087, "end": 4596.612, "text": "Okay, we can back up.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-550", "start": 4597.174, "end": 4615.084, "text": "For going back to number 2, some of my reservations there are about the number of vehicles growing to 250 in one year, and then also reservations about removing councilors' ability to address fleet caps by allowing the city administrator that authority on future fleet caps.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-551", "start": 4616.174, "end": 4617.391, "text": "Gotcha, gotcha.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-552", "start": 4618.321, "end": 4622.439, "text": "Well, if, if the legislature preempts us, this won't be an issue at all.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-553", "start": 4622.728, "end": 4624.827, "text": "The company will be able to do whatever it wants.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-554", "start": 4625.147, "end": 4629.948, "text": "And then for number— policy concept 4, I'm sorry, now I'm catching up to you all.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-555", "start": 4630.399, "end": 4637.474, "text": "I am wondering if staff can speak to how the city would address real-time issues like AVs blocking emergency vehicles.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-556", "start": 4637.771, "end": 4640.607, "text": "If you can talk a little bit more about that, if there's someone in distress.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-557", "start": 4642.72, "end": 4643.595, "text": "Yeah, thank you for the question.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-558", "start": 4644.131, "end": 4648.396, "text": "So this is something that we would have to do a lot of coordination with our first responders on.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-559", "start": 4648.51, "end": 4659.007, "text": "In other cities, and part of our draft regulations right now are based on best practices from other states, and that includes a first responder interaction plan and training.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-560", "start": 4659.536, "end": 4672.053, "text": "So before being allowed to deploy, any AV company would need to do kind of really dedicated outreach, demonstrate to first responders exactly how they would, you know, interact with the vehicle if it was involved in an accident or move it out of the way.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-561", "start": 4673.207, "end": 4681.204, "text": "Also, we would require the AV companies to have a dedicated first responder phone call line that would be answerable within 30 seconds, 24/7.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-562", "start": 4681.957, "end": 4684.617, "text": "This is another kind of California best practice that we've pulled from.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-563", "start": 4685.468, "end": 4693.834, "text": "And then, you know, so I think the emphasis really is on response time and making it easy for first responders and making sure they know, like, they're trained and prepared for that incident.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-564", "start": 4694.252, "end": 4696.419, "text": "I'm glad there's conversations with other jurisdictions.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-565", "start": 4696.484, "end": 4696.789, "text": "Did you wanna—.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-566", "start": 4696.789, "end": 4699.085, "text": "Yeah, yeah, thanks, Councilor Koyama Lane.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-567", "start": 4699.133, "end": 4706.696, "text": "I think in addition to that, we have regulatory enforcement staff who I think our Uber and Lyft friends are familiar with.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-568", "start": 4706.76, "end": 4715.415, "text": "These are staff that go out to the Port of Portland or Hail rides to make sure that people have permits in place, that their vehicles are certified with us.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-569", "start": 4715.48, "end": 4723.895, "text": "We'd also be utilizing some of that same staff to make sure that they were on the street, making sure that the companies were following the rules.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-570", "start": 4724.072, "end": 4730.468, "text": "And if and when they were not, they would be documenting those incidents and then working to take the appropriate measures.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-571", "start": 4731.301, "end": 4739.236, "text": "And then in addition to talking to these jurisdictions about what's being applied and what their plans are, are you hearing about like lessons learned?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-572", "start": 4739.461, "end": 4744.093, "text": "Like, here's what we are planning, in reality this is what we're actually learning and what we're seeing.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-573", "start": 4744.206, "end": 4747.299, "text": "That's how they came up with this whole thing, is by interviewing the 15 other jurisdictions.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-574", "start": 4748.375, "end": 4749.836, "text": "Yeah, constantly talking to them.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-575", "start": 4749.981, "end": 4760.193, "text": "And, you know, I think it's a really unique position where all of the cities where AV companies for hire are operating right now, they've been preempted, so they don't have the chance to create or update any regulations.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-576", "start": 4760.321, "end": 4762.794, "text": "It's really all like responding in real time.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-577", "start": 4762.97, "end": 4771.946, "text": "So we're learning from like what they're trying to scrap together with first responders or other people, like just responding without that regulatory power to change things.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-578", "start": 4772.059, "end": 4782.362, "text": "So it's a lot of like here's this working group that we've cobbled together, and here's how we're trying to coordinate with the companies and ask for changes, rather than the ability to require them to make changes.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-579", "start": 4783.515, "end": 4793.977, "text": "California is a bit of a unique place where they do have the statewide regulations, but as a whole, they're more kind of responsive than any other statewide regulations and more forward-looking regulatorily-wise.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-580", "start": 4794.714, "end": 4796.829, "text": "So we've pulled a lot of those best practices from there.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-581", "start": 4797.069, "end": 4798.063, "text": "So there's a bit of a distinction.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-582", "start": 4798.479, "end": 4808.767, "text": "And which— can you share any approaches that were tried but clearly weren't working, That's a great question.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-583", "start": 4811.249, "end": 4812.394, "text": "I think—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-584", "start": 4812.394, "end": 4819.832, "text": "I think, if I may, I think the general kind of lack of accountability at a city level has been one of those kind of lessons learned.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-585", "start": 4819.913, "end": 4827.309, "text": "So, you know, there's examples out of Texas, for example, where automated vehicles kind of continue to break the rules of the road.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-586", "start": 4827.696, "end": 4845.621, "text": "And so the city having no regulatory authority, no ability to intervene, to enforce the rules of the road, issue fines, no ability to suspend permits, no ability to revoke permits, you know, will pick up the phone and call an automated vehicle company and say, hey, can you please stop doing this?", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-587", "start": 4846.935, "end": 4855.219, "text": "And there's no accountability in that relationship because at the end of the day, the accountability is at the state level or it's at the federal level.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-588", "start": 4855.844, "end": 4865.669, "text": "And so I think what we've heard from those jurisdictions is the frustration of having chaos sometimes happening on their streets and those cities not being able to do anything.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-589", "start": 4866.021, "end": 4877.29, "text": "And that's very different from the relationship that we have with our taxi companies, with our Uber and Lyft companies, with limousine companies, with horse-drawn carriages.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-590", "start": 4877.627, "end": 4889.586, "text": "You know, we have a relationship that's one of accountability where we can pick up the phone and say, hey, we saw this today, we'd like you to fix this, and if you don't fix this, Here's what comes next.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-591", "start": 4890.468, "end": 4896.61, "text": "So I think that's probably one of the biggest things that we've learned from our peer conversations, our conversations with peers around the United States.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-592", "start": 4896.883, "end": 4900.266, "text": "Yeah, I mean, this proposal essentially is the lessons learned proposal.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-593", "start": 4900.331, "end": 4913.769, "text": "And not that it is, you know, there are more things we could add, but it was sort of a first draft of taking all those lessons learned and saying we need this whole framework to try to account for those things.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-594", "start": 4914.521, "end": 4930.981, "text": "It sounds like the lack of accountability is at the top of the list, is that the local— the 15 cities that have this now that have been preempted, they have no ability to regulate, but California has found some kind of way through this.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-595", "start": 4932.242, "end": 4937.438, "text": "Yeah, they have a state framework that regulates at some level, but the cities don't have a lot of that control.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-596", "start": 4937.583, "end": 4945.638, "text": "It's really— they have to kind of work with their state partners, and it's not always as responsive to immediate situations on the ground or each jurisdiction's kind of unique issues.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-597", "start": 4945.863, "end": 4947.482, "text": "Well, who would their state partner be?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-598", "start": 4948.444, "end": 4952.837, "text": "So it's jointly regulated by the California Public Utility Commission and the California DMV.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-599", "start": 4953.334, "end": 4957.936, "text": "So it's also a somewhat kind of complex process where both of those agencies hold some regulations.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-600", "start": 4958.674, "end": 4969.015, "text": "So you could imagine this being a scenario, and I think in the 2026 short session legislation, it would've been creating a framework through the Oregon Department of Motor Vehicles.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-601", "start": 4969.738, "end": 4975.968, "text": "So you could imagine a situation where some automated vehicles are blocking the bus mall, for example.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-602", "start": 4977.06, "end": 4988.347, "text": "And in that kind of framework, we would be the ones picking up the phone, calling the Oregon Department of Motor Vehicles, saying, here's what we're seeing on the streets of Portland, we're concerned about this.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-603", "start": 4988.781, "end": 4992.972, "text": "And then it would be up to the Oregon Department of Motor Vehicles to decide, is that an issue?", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-604", "start": 4993.18, "end": 4999.802, "text": "But that would have to be written into whatever the state is going to do.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-605", "start": 5000.188, "end": 5006.319, "text": "They would have to write that partnership in or that ability to have a backstop.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-606", "start": 5006.724, "end": 5007.371, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-607", "start": 5007.533, "end": 5011.579, "text": "And I think our concern would be, would they be taking our concerns seriously?", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-608", "start": 5013.25, "end": 5020.628, "text": "You know, how many instances in the City of Portland before someone at that agency decides enough is enough?", "speaker": "Jacob Sherman" }, { "id": "cue-609", "start": 5021.157, "end": 5022.603, "text": "Or are they even set up to?", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-610", "start": 5022.844, "end": 5029.784, "text": "I think, I mean, that's the sort of the enforcement on our streets isn't really— again, there isn't a different framework.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-611", "start": 5029.832, "end": 5034.137, "text": "They don't regulate other private-for-hire at the state level because of those local impacts.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-612", "start": 5034.186, "end": 5043.744, "text": "And that's something we have over the last 5 or 6 or 7 legislative sessions, we have pushed back on that idea.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-613", "start": 5044.065, "end": 5047.246, "text": "Uber and Lyft have also wanted to set up a statewide framework.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-614", "start": 5047.294, "end": 5047.68, "text": "I think that's a good point.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-615", "start": 5048.884, "end": 5054.087, "text": "With the similar consistency arguments and things like that and said, hey, we would like to do lighter regulations at the state.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-616", "start": 5054.504, "end": 5057.073, "text": "And we've said the impacts are on our streets, that doesn't make sense.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-617", "start": 5057.474, "end": 5067.847, "text": "So it's the same, you know, there's questions of if they would take our concerns seriously, but even questions of like, do they even have the ability?", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-618", "start": 5067.992, "end": 5073.579, "text": "It would be— we're not sure how they would set it up so they could be responsive in the same way that we could be at the local level.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-619", "start": 5074.734, "end": 5076.194, "text": "Did you have another question?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-620", "start": 5076.274, "end": 5087.054, "text": "Oh, I was just wondering, um, are there any other cities that you all are talking to that are in a similar space as us where we're like, if we get to decide this is what we want before we might get preempted?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-621", "start": 5088.209, "end": 5089.669, "text": "Yeah, there are a couple of cities right now.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-622", "start": 5090.278, "end": 5095.203, "text": "Minneapolis and DC are actively working on draft regulations, and I'm part of a working group.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-623", "start": 5095.267, "end": 5096.759, "text": "I talk to them very frequently.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-624", "start": 5096.871, "end": 5108.99, "text": "And then there are a few other cities and some of those other states that I think are a little City of Seattle is another one that we often speak with as well.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-625", "start": 5110.034, "end": 5113.566, "text": "They're in the process of creating something, or they've already been preempted?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-626", "start": 5114.192, "end": 5116.055, "text": "They have not been preempted yet.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-627", "start": 5116.151, "end": 5125.143, "text": "So they are also— they have regulations on the books that require a permit for testing, very similar to our draft regulations, and nothing for commercial operations yet.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-628", "start": 5125.207, "end": 5125.946, "text": "And they've not been preempted.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-629", "start": 5126.01, "end": 5126.106, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-630", "start": 5126.17, "end": 5126.299, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-631", "start": 5127.44, "end": 5131.168, "text": "And DC and Minneapolis, you said they're sort of in the same situation we are.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-632", "start": 5131.377, "end": 5134.333, "text": "They're working through, should we do something before we get preempted?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-633", "start": 5134.606, "end": 5135.249, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-634", "start": 5136.679, "end": 5138.463, "text": "Okay, great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-635", "start": 5138.704, "end": 5140.439, "text": "A lot of uncharted territory.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-636", "start": 5141.098, "end": 5141.982, "text": "Boy, I'll tell you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-637", "start": 5142.625, "end": 5146.304, "text": "Uh, Councilor Green, you, you want to ask a question or make a comment?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-638", "start": 5146.562, "end": 5152.073, "text": "Yeah, I just wanted to sort of respond to the, um, the handout you've given us and just kind of run through a couple things.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-639", "start": 5152.121, "end": 5157.825, "text": "So So, you know, I'm interested to see the legislative concept that's been handed out that we'll get into later.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-640", "start": 5157.969, "end": 5159.415, "text": "That's kind of the direction I'd like to go.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-641", "start": 5159.511, "end": 5162.599, "text": "But I think I wanted to respond to what we have here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-642", "start": 5163.035, "end": 5171.56, "text": "Um, in a world where we don't try to just ban Waymo, we do need to put it in code.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-643", "start": 5171.641, "end": 5184.211, "text": "And I think, I think, like, I, I think the first sort of step, moving it out of administrative rulemaking that's really quite dated I think getting this documented and into code is crucial, and we should be doing that for, frankly, a lot of work across the city.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-644", "start": 5184.871, "end": 5195.935, "text": "I think for me, the most important pieces of this that kind of address my immediate concerns are sort of the safety piece.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-645", "start": 5196.305, "end": 5199.768, "text": "The limiting of loading and unloading in bicycle lanes is very huge for me.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-646", "start": 5201.47, "end": 5203.01, "text": "And the data privacy piece.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-647", "start": 5203.24, "end": 5203.666, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-648", "start": 5204.23, "end": 5217.428, "text": "I just want to note that, you know, we started this discussion by saying that, you know, the AV companies are going to tout their safety measurements, but their safety measurements are in isolation, right?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-649", "start": 5217.556, "end": 5225.066, "text": "And so pedestrian safety is a holistic— it's the outcome of a holistic system as a whole.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-650", "start": 5225.998, "end": 5232.771, "text": "And what we do see is the presence of these autonomous vehicles vehicles increase deadheading and traffic.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-651", "start": 5233.829, "end": 5239.777, "text": "And so then, and I think traffic, I think, you know, safety is a function of traffic, right?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-652", "start": 5239.825, "end": 5244.778, "text": "The more traffic you have, the more likely it is that people are going to get in accidents and they're going to be frustrated.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-653", "start": 5244.826, "end": 5245.804, "text": "They're going to be moving fast.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-654", "start": 5245.852, "end": 5253.066, "text": "They're going to make that right-hand turn, that California stop, and they don't look right because they're looking left.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-655", "start": 5253.451, "end": 5255.935, "text": "That happens to me almost like anytime I walk my dog.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-656", "start": 5256, "end": 5256.449, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-657", "start": 5256.577, "end": 5259.933, "text": "Like, I almost get hit if I, if I go out on a particular route.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-658", "start": 5259.981, "end": 5262.614, "text": "So those are the things I worry a lot about.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-659", "start": 5262.758, "end": 5271.267, "text": "Um, you know, the last piece that sort of— I, you know, I think it's well-intentioned to establish the impact fee for sort of like the driver support piece.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-660", "start": 5271.588, "end": 5291.072, "text": "Um, but I think for me, if, if we're going to acknowledge that this could, could be labor displacing and, and frankly result in this displacement of a, of a, of a whole job, um, the fee would need to be so large that I don't— that I think it would just be like, well, why don't we just ban this thing?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-661", "start": 5291.509, "end": 5292.61, "text": "So that's how I think about this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-662", "start": 5292.788, "end": 5300.505, "text": "And, um, but I wanted to sort of, uh, walk through these pieces so we can have that conversation.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-663", "start": 5300.795, "end": 5303.796, "text": "I, I, I, I don't want to accept that we'll be preempted.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-664", "start": 5303.844, "end": 5305.727, "text": "I don't think anyone up here wants to accept that either.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-665", "start": 5305.808, "end": 5318.564, "text": "But, um, if this is the world we have to go absence, uh, absent a sort of ban approach, then, then I think these elements are good, and I would want to tighten up some of, some of the things I talked about.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-666", "start": 5318.612, "end": 5320.233, "text": "So, um, perfect.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-667", "start": 5320.457, "end": 5321.597, "text": "Yeah, I think I'll leave it there for now.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-668", "start": 5321.822, "end": 5322.8, "text": "Okay, thanks.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-669", "start": 5323.587, "end": 5324.373, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-670", "start": 5324.71, "end": 5348.552, "text": "I think that was really my intent, was to identify what we think are the most crucial aspects of this, whether we go forward with an ordinance or whether the state legislature forces something upon us, how are we going to lobby that, um, what our interests are and what, what I'm learning from the other cities that have no authority anymore.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-671", "start": 5348.632, "end": 5350.188, "text": "We don't want to be in that position.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-672", "start": 5351.023, "end": 5357.856, "text": "Um, so I think identifying what our priorities are here to inform our, our OGR is, is really important.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-673", "start": 5358.562, "end": 5360.76, "text": "Um, thank you for listing your priorities.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-674", "start": 5361.129, "end": 5367.342, "text": "Did, uh, my colleagues on the over here Do you want to say anything about number 5, the bike lane, or anything like that?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-675", "start": 5367.733, "end": 5368.824, "text": "Do you want to make a comment?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-676", "start": 5370.668, "end": 5373.943, "text": "Or— Number 5.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-677", "start": 5374.427, "end": 5383.048, "text": "I mean, I, I am really worried about how we're going to ensure that cyclists and pedestrians are not being put in dangerous circumstances.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-678", "start": 5384.277, "end": 5394.243, "text": "And that is going to lead into a bonus policy concept about what does it actually look like to just say no to this in general, to AVs.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-679", "start": 5394.811, "end": 5397.473, "text": "Um, but we can keep going.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-680", "start": 5399.663, "end": 5400.659, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-681", "start": 5401.044, "end": 5401.446, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-682", "start": 5401.591, "end": 5405.093, "text": "Uh, well, we talked quite a bit about privacy last time.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-683", "start": 5405.206, "end": 5411.716, "text": "I think Councilor Kanal had made some really excellent points about the lack of privacy.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-684", "start": 5412.232, "end": 5429.565, "text": "Did you want to say anything more about that, Councilor Kanal, number 6, about yeah, I mean, there is one way to ensure that data is not shared with ICE, and that's not to create it in the first place.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-685", "start": 5431.41, "end": 5443.537, "text": "One of the— not the company that's currently seeking a permit, but the second largest company in this space also owns a networked camera company which shares information with ICE that has been used in court cases.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-686", "start": 5443.585, "end": 5444.006, "text": "I'm referring to Ring cameras.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-687", "start": 5444.054, "end": 5444.589, "text": "I'm not familiar with Ring cameras.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-688", "start": 5446.996, "end": 5449.069, "text": "It's probably not the only one out there that's doing it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-689", "start": 5449.117, "end": 5451.318, "text": "It's the one that there's a lot of documentation around.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-690", "start": 5451.897, "end": 5455.416, "text": "So that's a large-scale surveillance concern.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-691", "start": 5456.091, "end": 5467.978, "text": "I think once again with relation to the content of this concept number 6, the warrant signed by a judge is great.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-692", "start": 5468.429, "end": 5469.38, "text": "That's great.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-693", "start": 5470.04, "end": 5471.829, "text": "AV companies are prohibited from selling any data.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-694", "start": 5472.007, "end": 5477.279, "text": "I think I think seems like, um, it seems like it would provide a false sense of security.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-695", "start": 5477.376, "end": 5481.367, "text": "I don't know how we would enforce that, how we'd even know that that was happening if it was.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-696", "start": 5482.185, "end": 5490.906, "text": "And then in terms of written approval from the city administrator required, that should be a council ordinance before a single piece of Portlanders' data is shared outside of the city.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-697", "start": 5491.739, "end": 5513.206, "text": "I don't— I think broadly speaking, I don't believe that most of the things that are in administrative rule are because I feel like the moment we have the media attention move on from this issue area, that allows for the mayor to increase the, the caps, for example, to a number that's, that's so large as to be, um, meaningless.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-698", "start": 5513.961, "end": 5528.388, "text": "So I, I'm concerned about that sort of as an approach to things, putting things that are of high public interest into administrative rules so that the public is not engaged when potential changes occur and doesn't even necessarily know about it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-699", "start": 5528.779, "end": 5530.098, "text": "Not like we've experienced that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-700", "start": 5530.64, "end": 5530.72, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-701", "start": 5530.769, "end": 5544.758, "text": "And so with a, you know, with sort of the attempt, I think, at the highest level to create a sort of unitary executive here at the City of Portland, that to me creates a big concern around administrative rules that I think is not ideal but is what's happening.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-702", "start": 5546.16, "end": 5553.54, "text": "So yeah, as it relates, I could get deeper into surveillance part, but I want to I want to keep a focus on what's on here to the degree I can.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-703", "start": 5553.62, "end": 5554.437, "text": "I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-704", "start": 5554.982, "end": 5560.174, "text": "Uh, Councilor Cully, do you have any comments about number 6, um, data privacy?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-705", "start": 5561.312, "end": 5563.86, "text": "And Councilor Green?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-706", "start": 5564.132, "end": 5564.228, "text": "No?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-707", "start": 5564.453, "end": 5564.757, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-708", "start": 5565.879, "end": 5573.763, "text": "Um, I would like to ask, uh, our friends from PBOT just to explain again what the remote operators in code was about.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-709", "start": 5573.891, "end": 5576.263, "text": "I'm, I'm— I don't want to trust myself to explain it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-710", "start": 5576.391, "end": 5578.508, "text": "Can you explain that, Hannah, maybe?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-711", "start": 5578.621, "end": 5579.696, "text": "Yeah, yeah, I'd be happy to.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-712", "start": 5579.985, "end": 5587.028, "text": "Um, so with defining the remote operator there, this is actually based again off of something that California recently updated in their regulations.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-713", "start": 5587.686, "end": 5598.934, "text": "Um, this would require the remote operators, kind of this definition, to have a US-based driver's license commensurate with the vehicle that they're driving and be based in the US, uh, within code.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-714", "start": 5599.078, "end": 5603.875, "text": "And so, you know, we— the remote operators is something that I think we still don't know a ton about.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-715", "start": 5603.924, "end": 5607.213, "text": "This is something the companies have really kept kept under wraps from the public.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-716", "start": 5607.277, "end": 5621.767, "text": "There was a Senate investigation into this earlier this year, and it, you know, uncovered that some remote operators were based out of the country in places like the Philippines, actually, you know, operating the vehicles remotely if they got into a situation where they were uncertain about what they were doing.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-717", "start": 5621.896, "end": 5635.687, "text": "So this is something for us, we just want to make sure that they— anyone that would be potentially helping a vehicle navigate in a situation where they were uncertain had the appropriate driver's license and was It seems like a no-brainer.", "speaker": "Hannah Morrison" }, { "id": "cue-718", "start": 5638.92, "end": 5641.918, "text": "And Councilor Green addressed briefly the impact fees.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-719", "start": 5642.339, "end": 5644.965, "text": "Um, does anybody else want to say anything about impact fees?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-720", "start": 5648.501, "end": 5648.696, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-721", "start": 5649.069, "end": 5649.313, "text": "I think—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-722", "start": 5649.313, "end": 5649.653, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-723", "start": 5649.832, "end": 5657.288, "text": "I think broadly I agree with Councilor Green, um, in terms of if you'd have to make them so high, you might as well just ban them.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-724", "start": 5657.519, "end": 5660.561, "text": "Um, and I think one of the things with I think that's a good point.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-725", "start": 5660.625, "end": 5670.708, "text": "In relation to Minneapolis, which is— DC may not be quite as comparable just because of the governmental structure, although they may be at a similar space along the way of making decisions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-726", "start": 5671.206, "end": 5684.726, "text": "With Minneapolis, who does have a mayoral veto, they— the conversation there was if you're going to require a human driver or human operator in an otherwise automated vehicle, you're effectively banning it without just banning it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-727", "start": 5684.87, "end": 5686.749, "text": "And that was one of the conversations that happen there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-728", "start": 5687.503, "end": 5695.243, "text": "And I think it, you know, we'll do that if we need to, I guess, but I think we don't necessarily need to, to kind of, um, do the workaround.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-729", "start": 5695.789, "end": 5703.512, "text": "Instead, it makes sense to just say if you're going to require a human person in the driver's seat, you know, they should be the one driving the vehicle.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-730", "start": 5703.576, "end": 5706.097, "text": "So that, that's sort of where I'm at on, on that piece.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-731", "start": 5706.45, "end": 5709.854, "text": "Um, and so that, that kind of mitigates, I think, the, the impact fees.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-732", "start": 5709.999, "end": 5721.383, "text": "I don't know I don't know if there's been estimates done on what this would do, how much money this would raise, but my guess is it's not enough to replace the worker displacement.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-733", "start": 5721.897, "end": 5731.177, "text": "I'll also note that, you know, we're not necessarily able to tax, 'cause this is not just putting workers out of business, it's actually also outsourcing some of that labor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-734", "start": 5731.675, "end": 5746.453, "text": "Because when some of the time when a vehicle is, Um, failing to move and someone is then taking over, a human is taking over remote operation of that vehicle, that person's not in Portland.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-735", "start": 5747.16, "end": 5756.14, "text": "So it's not simply that some of the folks, um, who drive for a living would lose their jobs, it's that some of those jobs would be moved overseas or other parts of the country.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-736", "start": 5756.493, "end": 5758.582, "text": "And I don't know how we address that with an impact fee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-737", "start": 5758.678, "end": 5765.587, "text": "So I guess this is, again, it's like I don't want to have the impact that would have a fee So I don't know that I want an impact fee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-738", "start": 5766.053, "end": 5768.431, "text": "I think that's— wasn't that kind of what we were talking about?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-739", "start": 5768.479, "end": 5769.973, "text": "Number 7, was they—.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-740", "start": 5770.472, "end": 5770.648, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-741", "start": 5771.018, "end": 5772.898, "text": "Yeah, they're both— they're related.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-742", "start": 5773.026, "end": 5774.007, "text": "Yeah, and I agree.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-743", "start": 5774.087, "end": 5777.574, "text": "So even if that happened, right, then maybe they're in another state.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-744", "start": 5778.088, "end": 5787.006, "text": "So that's still— it's not outsourcing in the traditionally, you know, understood sense of outside of the country, but it is still not a job that was here that's not in Portland anymore.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-745", "start": 5787.585, "end": 5788.79, "text": "Yeah, yeah, great.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-746", "start": 5789.449, "end": 5790.236, "text": "May I?", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-747", "start": 5790.622, "end": 5790.815, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-748", "start": 5791.023, "end": 5798.046, "text": "This is sort of a— to be clear, this is uncharted territory and the city attorney's— there's, you know, just sharing thoughts.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-749", "start": 5798.592, "end": 5806.016, "text": "But as we were thinking about this, you could potentially try to also say it actually has to— the remote operators have to be an organ.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-750", "start": 5806.225, "end": 5814.098, "text": "I mean, again, we're in uncharted territory and I don't know what is possible, but that if you were to want to go that way, you could potentially think about that.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-751", "start": 5815.206, "end": 5823.084, "text": "And also just wanting to acknowledge, you know, again, the strongest job protection probably is the cap.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-752", "start": 5823.309, "end": 5829.871, "text": "And you could also put the cap in— you could put in code never more than 10% or something.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-753", "start": 5830.063, "end": 5833.224, "text": "You know, it could be 10% of the private-for-hire fleet.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-754", "start": 5833.754, "end": 5833.946, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-755", "start": 5834.155, "end": 5839.513, "text": "So there could be a way to do this that was a, you know, a harder stop with a cap.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-756", "start": 5839.77, "end": 5843.797, "text": "Does seem stronger than the fee, because you're right, the fee is never going to be enough to make up for it.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-757", "start": 5844.17, "end": 5850.511, "text": "But a cap at 5 or 10% of the total fleet in code might be a way to at least put some bounds around it.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-758", "start": 5851.27, "end": 5852.028, "text": "Well, thanks, Shoshana.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-759", "start": 5852.092, "end": 5855.303, "text": "I think just emphasizing that this is all uncharted territory.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-760", "start": 5856.045, "end": 5858.529, "text": "We have no idea what's going to happen.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-761", "start": 5859.691, "end": 5864.093, "text": "But I think it's important for us to have this conversation about what is important to us.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-762", "start": 5866.571, "end": 5875.593, "text": "And while some of us would prefer a ban, I'm just really anticipating that we may get, quote unquote, run over by the state.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-763", "start": 5875.722, "end": 5881.593, "text": "So it's important that we kind of talk through what are our priorities or what do we think are the most important pieces.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-764", "start": 5881.641, "end": 5890.608, "text": "And I think we've talked about safety and accountability and being able to hold the company responsible are important concepts.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-765", "start": 5890.705, "end": 5900.75, "text": "But as of just a little few minutes ago, some of my colleagues now have what they're calling an autonomous vehicle legislative concept.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-766", "start": 5901.071, "end": 5905.711, "text": "So which is something that you're thinking that we wanted to offer to the legislature.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-767", "start": 5906.129, "end": 5907.59, "text": "Is that the way I'm reading this?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-768", "start": 5907.654, "end": 5910.657, "text": "Or maybe I should just let you guys explain what, what your thinking is.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-769", "start": 5911.01, "end": 5914.35, "text": "Do you want to take it away, Councilor Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-770", "start": 5914.703, "end": 5923.671, "text": "Yeah, I first want to thank and acknowledge our friends who are here today from Drivers Union Oregon, thanks for being here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-771", "start": 5923.719, "end": 5924.773, "text": "I tried to get here early.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-772", "start": 5924.903, "end": 5926.15, "text": "There was a lot of traffic.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-773", "start": 5926.215, "end": 5930.186, "text": "Would've maybe been even worse with Waymos all over the place too.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-774", "start": 5931.84, "end": 5945.666, "text": "Also, I want to give genuine appreciation for our staff who are navigating a lot and doing a lot of research and are being very responsive and clearly understand the importance of considering the long-range impact of AVs.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-775", "start": 5946.983, "end": 5966.159, "text": "Chair Clark, I appreciate I appreciate you continuing to give us time to discuss this, and I also appreciate your expertise and your understanding about state legislation and potential preemption and making sure that we're navigating this in a really strategic way.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-776", "start": 5968.221, "end": 5983.794, "text": "As we kind of previewed a little bit, nodded to in our last meeting, Councilor Kanal and I I feel really strongly that we haven't addressed one of the biggest questions, which is just, do we want AVs in Portland?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-777", "start": 5984.324, "end": 5987.936, "text": "And I think for many of us that answer is no.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-778", "start": 5988.482, "end": 5994.391, "text": "And seeing driverless vehicles on the road is something where there's a lot of concern around that.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-779", "start": 5994.857, "end": 6014.831, "text": "So Councilor Kanal and I want to introduce a sort of one-pager with a concept that would move Portland away from this idea of AVs and really prioritizes making sure that we're protecting privacy, supporting workers, keeping safe streets at the top.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-780", "start": 6015.217, "end": 6025.685, "text": "And if I can, so we did send an email of this to the clerk, so I know while folks can't see this right now, we'll make sure that that's available to you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-781", "start": 6025.91, "end": 6039.519, "text": "And we We talked about the way it's outlined is we have the goal, which is clarify and use multiple municipal authority to ban autonomous vehicle operations in Portland public rights of way.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-782", "start": 6040.176, "end": 6047.502, "text": "And then it's there, we go through the problems, the proposed policies, alignment with agenda and city goals, and next steps for council action.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-783", "start": 6047.854, "end": 6056.464, "text": "And I'd be remiss if I wouldn't also just point out that Councilor Kanal has been really focused on this and worried about this especially their surveillance piece.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-784", "start": 6056.737, "end": 6061.278, "text": "And so really grateful to get to partner with him and his team on this.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-785", "start": 6061.471, "end": 6068.83, "text": "And if he wants to go in more about the background and go more in depth on the problem statement, that would be great.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-786", "start": 6070.19, "end": 6070.848, "text": "Thank you, Chair Clark.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-787", "start": 6070.928, "end": 6072.085, "text": "Thanks, Councilor Koyama Lane.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-788", "start": 6072.149, "end": 6088.906, "text": "So yeah, I think the goal kind of says it all— clarify and then use local municipal authority I think we've touched on several of the problem statements.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-789", "start": 6088.954, "end": 6090.398, "text": "We talked about worker displacement.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-790", "start": 6090.944, "end": 6095.034, "text": "We've talked about surveillance and data collection and potential transfer.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-791", "start": 6095.451, "end": 6096.702, "text": "We've talked about safety.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-792", "start": 6097.44, "end": 6112.722, "text": "Safety includes the safety of not only the people in the vehicle, but those who may be affected in bike lanes, those who may be waiting in their homes for an emergency vehicle vehicle to come to them that is delayed along the way to them by a deadheaded vehicle.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-793", "start": 6114.25, "end": 6116.331, "text": "It includes a lot of different elements of this as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-794", "start": 6117.267, "end": 6123.496, "text": "It also includes the impacts in terms of obstruction of transit vehicles, other vulnerable road users besides just cyclists, pedestrians as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-795", "start": 6124.678, "end": 6129.262, "text": "We've talked about the need for regulatory gap remedies.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-796", "start": 6130.866, "end": 6138.347, "text": "I think that has to do with what Shoshana, you brought up in terms of the definitions, I think that's a really solid piece of, of the work that's been done.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-797", "start": 6138.86, "end": 6146.808, "text": "And, um, as a side note, I, I, I do want to acknowledge again that, that, um, everything that PBOT's been bringing forward is what PBOT was asked to do.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-798", "start": 6147.113, "end": 6149.997, "text": "And so I really appreciate the work that's been done and the detail on that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-799", "start": 6150.542, "end": 6159.099, "text": "Um, we've talked a little bit about accountability and liability and the question over who is responsible if and, and obviously when something goes wrong.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-800", "start": 6159.853, "end": 6166.72, "text": "And that's a very difficult thing that has not yet necessarily been hammered out in usually state law around the country.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-801", "start": 6167.217, "end": 6170.49, "text": "And then finally, there's a broader conversation about local autonomy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-802", "start": 6170.955, "end": 6176.056, "text": "I understand that there's a desire to have a single market concept effectively.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-803", "start": 6176.137, "end": 6181.768, "text": "The state has an interest in having sort of commerce operate by the same rules in different parts of the state.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-804", "start": 6181.832, "end": 6183.564, "text": "And there's— I'm not disputing that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-805", "start": 6183.998, "end": 6189.777, "text": "I do think it makes sense to talk about about the fact that we have a role as a city in regulating our right-of-way.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-806", "start": 6189.937, "end": 6192.394, "text": "That's not designed to be statewide.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-807", "start": 6192.506, "end": 6193.855, "text": "That's why the cities have that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-808", "start": 6194.417, "end": 6197.291, "text": "Um, we also have, um, privacy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-809", "start": 6197.404, "end": 6200.808, "text": "We have safety and emergency vehicle management, right, and freedom of movement for them.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-810", "start": 6201.257, "end": 6203.762, "text": "And workforce support are all things that we do at the city.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-811", "start": 6204.452, "end": 6207.937, "text": "Um, so this is not necessarily something where we're trying to take authority from them.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-812", "start": 6208.017, "end": 6210.891, "text": "It's trying to hold the line and prevent the authority from being taken from us.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-813", "start": 6213.039, "end": 6218.776, "text": "As we get into sort of proposing the policies, amending the definitions and all that exactly as written here, I think makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-814", "start": 6219.208, "end": 6228.743, "text": "Clarifying the city's authority and our operational standards, you know, there's a question, open question about whether permitting for testing should still be a part of this or not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-815", "start": 6229.08, "end": 6235.922, "text": "But I think in terms of actual usage, that prohibition is clear, clearly a goal that Councilor Koyama Lane and I share.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-816", "start": 6236.82, "end": 6245.426, "text": "And ensuring that there's penalties if there is some sort of crossing into our jurisdiction from someone who's otherwise allowed to operate outside as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-817", "start": 6246.63, "end": 6257.066, "text": "What I think is really important to note is that this is the choice that makes sense because of its alignment with previous decisions of the City Council, previous decisions of this government.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-818", "start": 6257.628, "end": 6262.718, "text": "We've chosen to make, you know, our core values thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-819", "start": 6262.782, "end": 6268.321, "text": "We have values around anti-racism and equity, collaboration, cooperation, transparency, fiscal responsibility.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-820", "start": 6269.606, "end": 6271.853, "text": "There's an element of 3 or 4 of those in this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-821", "start": 6272.335, "end": 6275.578, "text": "We've chosen to create a data privacy and governance system.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-822", "start": 6275.787, "end": 6289, "text": "This aligns with that because the best way to prevent the sharing of data with the federal government is not to have it in the first place, especially knowing that one of the primary partners we would be working thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-823", "start": 6289.064, "end": 6296.563, "text": "So the only thing that we would be dealing with if we would pass this would be someone who is actively sharing on a regularized basis data with the federal government.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-824", "start": 6297.205, "end": 6306.165, "text": "And it also aligns with our previous decisions in that space on Sanctuary City and Protect Portland Initiative just over a year ago in October of last year.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-825", "start": 6306.694, "end": 6309.729, "text": "So those are sort of the big picture pieces of this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-826", "start": 6310.291, "end": 6323.602, "text": "I did also want to acknowledge, as I will do so, we We are not— we're not obligated to behave as though we know the future.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-827", "start": 6324.517, "end": 6325.978, "text": "We do not know what the state's going to do.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-828", "start": 6326.027, "end": 6327.648, "text": "They tried to do this last year.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-829", "start": 6328.146, "end": 6331.309, "text": "Fortunately for us, they did not do so in terms of preemption.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-830", "start": 6332.048, "end": 6334.44, "text": "I hope that we are able to stave that off again.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-831", "start": 6334.954, "end": 6338.326, "text": "But even if we're not, I think it's important that we don't comply in advance.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-832", "start": 6339.45, "end": 6348.235, "text": "Because because this is the— this particular industry is damaging to society the way that it is operating.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-833", "start": 6348.588, "end": 6355.769, "text": "Not in every single thing it does, not all new technology is bad, but in terms of this particular proposal and all that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-834", "start": 6356.025, "end": 6360.658, "text": "Um, so I think we need to not assume that we're going to lose.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-835", "start": 6360.914, "end": 6361.652, "text": "I would like to fight.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-836", "start": 6362.117, "end": 6364.024, "text": "I would like to try and win at the state level.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-837", "start": 6364.601, "end": 6381.01, "text": "And the good news for us is we have an amazing and I think that part of this is also giving them the power and the direction to go out, to go forth and defend, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-838", "start": 6381.01, "end": 6382.98, "text": "It's not even conquer, it's go forth and defend us.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-839", "start": 6383.29, "end": 6393.57, "text": "And so I think that's the basic framework here, along with clarifying the direction we give our staff, because as I said, they've done a great job taking the direction that a previous councilor, Councilor previous Mitch Green, gave them.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-840", "start": 6393.57, "end": 6393.61, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-841", "start": 6393.672, "end": 6404.061, "text": "Council gave them, and I think we need to update that direction, um, and supersede our old policy with a new one that, that says that all vehicles in Portland need a human driver.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-842", "start": 6404.575, "end": 6404.912, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-843", "start": 6406.261, "end": 6407.336, "text": "Great, thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-844", "start": 6408.027, "end": 6411.286, "text": "Um, so just a couple thoughts about that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-845", "start": 6411.72, "end": 6426.444, "text": "Um, having worked for local government in the past and worked, uh, at the legislature and for a governor, there's only one governor that has made it a policy not to preempt local government, and that's Governor Kitzhaber.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-846", "start": 6427.375, "end": 6431.132, "text": "No mandates without money, and don't take away local authority.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-847", "start": 6431.646, "end": 6436.977, "text": "Since that time, there's been no hesitation to preempt local government.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-848", "start": 6437.33, "end": 6440.365, "text": "I think that's just an ongoing tension between state and local government.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-849", "start": 6440.959, "end": 6447.029, "text": "And while I didn't mean to comply in advance, I thought that, that we should be very prepared for what's coming.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-850", "start": 6447.527, "end": 6464.616, "text": "And I think we've had an excellent conversation, um, and really huge thanks to the PBOT staff that have been working on this forever, reaching out to all the other 15 cities that are suffering from the lack of ability to regulate.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-851", "start": 6465.355, "end": 6470.479, "text": "So I just wanted to position us so that we are smart about what may or may not be coming.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-852", "start": 6471.056, "end": 6481.268, "text": "And, um, I don't know that if something does happen, uh, that we can actually, uh, look forward to a veto on something like this at all.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-853", "start": 6481.477, "end": 6487.665, "text": "But, uh, it kind of comes down to simple politics, and historically local governments have been on the losing side.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-854", "start": 6488.691, "end": 6488.915, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-855", "start": 6489.043, "end": 6491.881, "text": "So anyway, I think this has been a great conversation.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-856", "start": 6492.298, "end": 6495.151, "text": "Um, do we want to talk a little more about it?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-857", "start": 6495.6, "end": 6495.696, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-858", "start": 6495.744, "end": 6496.033, "text": "Go for it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-859", "start": 6496.081, "end": 6503.033, "text": "Go for I just wanted to say, I hear that, Chair, and I appreciate you bringing that expertise.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-860", "start": 6503.451, "end": 6513.55, "text": "And I think there definitely are times where you figure out how to do harm reduction or you find a good compromise.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-861", "start": 6514.626, "end": 6521.611, "text": "And I actually think that it's important that we have all of this information and we know that there are different routes to take.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-862", "start": 6522.157, "end": 6523.088, "text": "I do.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-863", "start": 6523.538, "end": 6530.362, "text": "I mean, the more that I'm in community too, I am feeling like there is an appetite for the public.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-864", "start": 6530.908, "end": 6531.903, "text": "They want to see us fight.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-865", "start": 6531.967, "end": 6541.328, "text": "And I even think about data centers and how much the governor has moved on that, how many legislators at the state have moved.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-866", "start": 6541.682, "end": 6544.909, "text": "I think this is an area that I could see some similarities.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-867", "start": 6545.118, "end": 6548.473, "text": "And so I don't think all this work that's been done is for nothing.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-868", "start": 6548.601, "end": 6557.364, "text": "I think it's important that we have like scenario A, B, C, but I, I would like us to very seriously consider this conversation.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-869", "start": 6557.476, "end": 6565.982, "text": "And, you know, maybe part of it is moving that Overton window, or, um, you know, maybe being able to think about changing some of the, the conversations statewide.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-870", "start": 6566.464, "end": 6572.466, "text": "Um, but I do think it's worth it for us to at least have this legislative concept of what would it look like if there was a ban.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-871", "start": 6573.044, "end": 6573.429, "text": "Absolutely.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-872", "start": 6573.943, "end": 6575.212, "text": "Yeah, so thank you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-873", "start": 6575.95, "end": 6576.287, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-874", "start": 6576.416, "end": 6576.881, "text": "Absolutely.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-875", "start": 6577.219, "end": 6581.169, "text": "I think we have the rudiments of, of that, of what could be a legislative concept.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-876", "start": 6581.795, "end": 6583.336, "text": "Uh, Councilor Green, did you have your hand up?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-877", "start": 6584.043, "end": 6584.412, "text": "I did, yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-878", "start": 6584.524, "end": 6590.947, "text": "I just wanted to weigh in on this, uh, and, you know, thank you for your leadership on this, Councilors Koyama Lane and Councilors Kanal.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-879", "start": 6591.589, "end": 6595.475, "text": "And Councilor Clark, thanks for sort of entertaining this free-flowing discussion.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-880", "start": 6595.523, "end": 6603.508, "text": "This is, I think, how policy is supposed to be made in committees, as we have We can't talk 3 of us together about any of these things without violating quorum.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-881", "start": 6603.556, "end": 6604.398, "text": "So this is where we do it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-882", "start": 6604.479, "end": 6608.346, "text": "So this sort of concept is exactly, I think, how policies start.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-883", "start": 6608.443, "end": 6609.604, "text": "And I really appreciate that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-884", "start": 6611.172, "end": 6621.611, "text": "I tend to agree with everything that's been said, that I think that part of our work— and there will be differences of opinion on like theories of change and how politics works and all that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-885", "start": 6621.692, "end": 6627.417, "text": "But I do think we have a moment to press a little bit and be part of moving the Overton window on some of these things.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-886", "start": 6627.498, "end": 6627.562, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-887", "start": 6627.743, "end": 6628.229, "text": "Of these things.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-888", "start": 6630.847, "end": 6639.096, "text": "I can affirm that I think most of my constituent interactions reflect yours, which is to sort of say, you know, who asked for this?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-889", "start": 6639.468, "end": 6640.098, "text": "Let's not.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-890", "start": 6640.438, "end": 6642.055, "text": "Can we just— can we just not?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-891", "start": 6642.62, "end": 6642.976, "text": "And—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-892", "start": 6642.976, "end": 6644.771, "text": "Can we just not?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-893", "start": 6645.191, "end": 6649.669, "text": "But I also want to say that I've heard some people say, well, hold on a second.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-894", "start": 6649.734, "end": 6654.42, "text": "Like, I do feel uncomfortable in a vehicle with someone I don't know.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-895", "start": 6655.076, "end": 6662.114, "text": "So we just need to be prepared for those conversations from folks who might want the AVs because they don't feel safe otherwise.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-896", "start": 6662.306, "end": 6668.959, "text": "And I just think we should confront that head-on and have an honest conversation about the balance of risks and trade-offs there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-897", "start": 6669.745, "end": 6670.162, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-898", "start": 6670.258, "end": 6671.781, "text": "And I think that there's ways to mitigate all that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-899", "start": 6671.829, "end": 6679.059, "text": "And I think if we resource the driver center, continue to invest in our drivers, we can meet that moment as well.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-900", "start": 6681.844, "end": 6692.036, "text": "I think these are the right problem statements and areas to amend our code, and I appreciate the kind of next steps for council action.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-901", "start": 6692.214, "end": 6703.457, "text": "I think it's important to sort of say, here's how we're going to amend code, but then we're going to pair this with a deliberate strategy with OGR to say, like, let's go on the offensive here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-902", "start": 6704.295, "end": 6705.536, "text": "I kind of think it's on the offensive.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-903", "start": 6705.584, "end": 6705.729, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-904", "start": 6706.337, "end": 6708.28, "text": "Personally.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-905", "start": 6709.147, "end": 6721.928, "text": "And I do think that there's opportunity to show support to those legislators who might be under pressure from these companies and say, look, you can stand up to them and we're here with you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-906", "start": 6722.314, "end": 6723.181, "text": "We've got your back.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-907", "start": 6723.229, "end": 6731.08, "text": "And so I guess I'm kind of bullish on it, but I do— I respect your concern and risk and acknowledging the risk.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-908", "start": 6731.161, "end": 6731.257, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-909", "start": 6732.137, "end": 6738.478, "text": "I think you've been in the Oregon State Legislature world longer than I have, and so I just want to honor that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-910", "start": 6739.627, "end": 6743.702, "text": "And so this is a good discussion, and thanks for bringing this other concept.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-911", "start": 6743.832, "end": 6755.236, "text": "And I don't know how exactly it moves forward in terms of timeline, but I will help to the— we'll be able to support to the extent that I'm allowed to legally.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-912", "start": 6756.914, "end": 6757.399, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-913", "start": 6757.62, "end": 6759.24, "text": "Yeah, yeah, great, great comments.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-914", "start": 6759.401, "end": 6761.615, "text": "I, um, I hope, you know, I hope you're right.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-915", "start": 6762.049, "end": 6767.89, "text": "I hope that you're right, colleagues, um, about the changing winds, um, politically.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-916", "start": 6768.789, "end": 6770.907, "text": "Um, but I think we just need to be prepared.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-917", "start": 6771.469, "end": 6774.389, "text": "So I really appreciate the conversation.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-918", "start": 6774.823, "end": 6777.31, "text": "I, I get— oh, Trishana, you want to make a remark?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-919", "start": 6777.551, "end": 6778.642, "text": "Can I just ask a question?", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-920", "start": 6779.412, "end": 6786.065, "text": "I'm just— is the intent to, um, ban private-for-hire AVs or all A/Bs.", "speaker": "Shoshana Cohen" }, { "id": "cue-921", "start": 6787.884, "end": 6797.013, "text": "I think, why don't you give us a chance to talk about that amongst ourselves, and not in threes, but we can bring this issue back.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-922", "start": 6797.078, "end": 6801.845, "text": "I was going to say that we could bring it back in December if that works.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-923", "start": 6801.974, "end": 6810.015, "text": "I think the November agenda I was going to mention is pretty packed, but December we have time.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-924", "start": 6810.81, "end": 6816.141, "text": "So we can bring that back, and we can let you know well in advance what the intent is.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-925", "start": 6817.554, "end": 6832.438, "text": "So hold on to your hat, and thank you again for all the work that you've put into this, all the incredible research that you've done, time spent with the 15 other cities and those that are sort of in the queue in the same situation that we may be in.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-926", "start": 6832.631, "end": 6835.569, "text": "So I just really, really appreciate all of the work that you've done.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-927", "start": 6836.628, "end": 6841.714, "text": "Um, with that, I'd like to conclude this conversation if that's okay with my colleagues.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-928", "start": 6842.083, "end": 6842.981, "text": "No, no further comment.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-929", "start": 6843.526, "end": 6844.216, "text": "Thank you again.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-930", "start": 6844.489, "end": 6846.992, "text": "Thanks for all the audience members for coming today.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-931", "start": 6847.072, "end": 6850.698, "text": "I hope you enjoyed the conversation, um, got something out of it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-932", "start": 6850.746, "end": 6855.318, "text": "We really appreciate you and appreciate your being here today, all of you, so much.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-933", "start": 6856.714, "end": 6857.243, "text": "So thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-934", "start": 6858.045, "end": 6867.113, "text": "Colleagues, our next meeting is November and we are going to have a utility rate briefing.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-935", "start": 6867.709, "end": 6875.824, "text": "We'll have Councilor Koyama Lane's budget note under discussion and a chance to hear from members of the Public Utility Board.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-936", "start": 6877.656, "end": 6880.456, "text": "I have— could you guys take it outside?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-937", "start": 6880.748, "end": 6882.593, "text": "Could you, could you take it out, your conversation?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-938", "start": 6882.69, "end": 6884.017, "text": "Yeah, please take it outside.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-939", "start": 6884.147, "end": 6884.438, "text": "I'm so sorry.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-940", "start": 6884.697, "end": 6885.215, "text": "No, no problem.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-941", "start": 6887.164, "end": 6887.736, "text": "It's the acoustics.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-942", "start": 6890.512, "end": 6892.516, "text": "I have read the pub report.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-943", "start": 6892.613, "end": 6897.424, "text": "I don't know if anybody else up here has, but I would encourage you to read their little report.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-944", "start": 6897.504, "end": 6901.962, "text": "And we'll— and you're inviting them, I believe, to, to, to be here on the 10th.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-945", "start": 6902.796, "end": 6908.265, "text": "We're also going to have, um, begin to look at a list of the technical fixes to the TUF.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-946", "start": 6909.115, "end": 6912.627, "text": "Uh, there isn't any other— I don't think there are any policy issues.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-947", "start": 6912.739, "end": 6919.62, "text": "There are some technical weeks that need to take place that we'll want to talk about that we'll have to bring as ordinances to take back to council.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-948", "start": 6921.072, "end": 6922.769, "text": "And I will not be here for that meeting.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-949", "start": 6923.03, "end": 6925.755, "text": "That will be chaired by Councilor Smith, our vice chair.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-950", "start": 6927.582, "end": 6929.237, "text": "So any other comments?", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-951", "start": 6930.405, "end": 6934.736, "text": "So, okay, without further ado, I will adjourn the meeting of the Public Works Committee.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-952", "start": 6937.014, "end": 6939.059, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" } ] }