{ "meetingId": "2026-10-06-cpsc-1", "title": "Portland City Council Community & Public Safety Committee 10/06/26", "displayTitle": "Community & Public Safety Committee", "date": "2026-10-06T16:44:00-07:00", "duration": 109, "videoUrl": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Zasf949lk", "videoId": "1-Zasf949lk", "agendaUrl": "https://www.portland.gov/council/agenda/community-and-public-safety-committee/2026/10/6", "agendaItems": [ { "number": 1, "title": "Discussion of global state budgeting for public safety concept", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-351" }, { "number": 2, "title": "Amend Secondhand Dealers Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees (amend Code Chapter 14B.90)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/amend-secondhand-dealers-program-requirements-and-fees" }, { "number": 3, "title": "Great ShakeOut earthquake drill preparedness presentation", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-350" }, { "number": 4, "title": "2026 fireworks season recap and enforcement", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/fireworks-enforcement" } ], "summary": "**The Community and Public Safety Committee referred an updated Secondhand Dealers Code to the full City Council 4-0, after adding a $25 background check fee and stripping a catch-all data-collection clause over privacy concerns.**\n\n## Secondhand dealers code heads to full Council\n\nThe committee voted 4-0, with Councilor Loretta Smith (District 1) absent, to send the amended ordinance to City Council with a recommendation to pass ([01:19:49](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:19:49)). The measure, introduced by Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) through the Revenue Division, eliminates a separate fee classification for occasional secondhand dealers and updates program fees. Tim Mercer, Tax Division Manager for Revenue, said the occasional-dealer category was dropped because \"it takes the same amount of time for us to administer an occasional dealer permit as it does the full permit\" ([00:23:49](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:23:49)).\n\nThe committee first adopted an amendment, Novick 2, 3-0 ([00:29:17](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:29:17)) clarifying that only owners, managers and people authorized to buy regulated property need a background check — a security guard would not. Novick said the change also added a **$25** background check fee for a process the city already performs without charge ([00:36:16](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:36:16)).\n\nCouncilor Sameer Kanal (District 2) pressed on data privacy and moved a second amendment, Kanal 1, striking a provision that let the city administrator require \"any other information the city administrator may reasonably feel is necessary.\" It passed 4-0 ([01:04:06](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:04:06)). Mercer said he had never used that clause and that it was \"okay to withdraw\" ([00:45:18](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:45:18)); the City Administrator said such language gives flexibility to address issues \"that need to be added to it\" later ([00:45:33](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:45:33)).\n\nKanal and Councilor Angelita Morillo (District 3) both tied their reservations to the city's Data Privacy Office, which is not yet staffed. Morillo asked whether personal history forms, including arrest records, are disclosable public records. Novick later relayed that city attorney Ken McGare believed the personal-privacy exemption would cover at least some of the form, though not necessarily all ([01:17:46](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:17:46)). Morillo noted she had voted against a recent police surveillance-technology grant for the same reason, saying it is \"much more difficult to claw things back once they have been approved\" ([01:16:00](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:16:00)). The City Administrator said the office's bureau lead should be hired by December and the independent review operational around January ([01:14:29](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:14:29)). Kanal said he would vote aye but \"reserve the right to change my opinion at the full council\" ([01:19:38](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:19:38)).\n\nA drafting dispute surfaced when Kanal found deleted language (a fee-assessment line, D2) that was not marked as removed. Spencer Knowles, Chief of Staff for Councilor Steve Novick, said drafting guidelines bar redlining amendment language. Kanal said \"Not trying to imply there was any bad intent there\" and asked that the guidelines be revisited ([00:43:05](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:43:05)). The clerk confirmed no one signed up to testify ([01:19:14](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:19:14)).\n\n## Fireworks ban drew no citations this year\n\nDan Douthit, public information officer with Portland's Public Safety Service Area, said about **30 fires** were attributed to fireworks this past July 4th, down slightly from 27 in 2025, and recalled a 2021 Northeast Portland apartment fire that killed three people. Portland banned all fireworks in 2022. An online reporting tool and expanded 311 hours helped cut the average 911 wait on July 4th from **26 seconds in 2024 to 8 seconds in 2025** ([01:34:00](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:34:00)).\n\nDeputy Chief Brian Hughes of the Portland Police Bureau, appearing online, said he was not aware of any citations issued this July 4th ([01:38:28](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:38:28)). Novick said that without enforcement, \"we might as well not have the law,\" and that if nothing changes he \"might suggest we just repeal the ban because it's pointless\" ([01:38:58](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:38:58)). Hughes called it a question of \"incremental change\" and cited equity concerns about choosing whom to cite when \"thousands of people\" are involved ([01:40:28](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:40:28)).\n\nCouncilor Eric Zimmerman (District 4) argued the ban raises the negligence standard in catastrophic fires and deters well-meaning residents, but warned against a statewide push given that Washington sells fireworks illegal in Oregon: \"it's going to happen, and it's like trying to stop water\" ([01:45:51](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:45:51)).\n\n## Public safety budgeting concept and earthquake drill\n\nNovick briefed the committee on a concept to have the state give each county a global public safety budget, charging prison costs against it to force spending trade-offs ([00:13:39](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@00:13:39)). He said it is not yet a bill and he hopes legislators have \"something to forward\" by the next session. Kanal asked for safeguards against counties shifting money toward incarceration. The Local Public Safety Coordinating Committee will discuss it October 26 at 1:30.\n\nMarisol Lozano-Peralta of the Portland Bureau of Emergency Management's Community Engagement and Operations team presented on the Great Oregon ShakeOut drill, held October 15 at 10:15 AM. She said Cascadia earthquakes average every 246 years, the last was about 327 years ago, and geologists put the chance of an 8.0 within 50 years at 30%. Novick said bolting a home to its foundation can cost as little as **$5,000 to $6,000** ([01:27:38](meeting:2026-10-06-cpsc-1@01:27:38)). Committee members ran a brief drop-cover-and-hold drill.\n\n## What's next\n\nThe amended Secondhand Dealers Code goes to the full City Council, where Kanal said he may reconsider his vote. The City Administrator said the Data Privacy Office's lead should be hired by December, with independent review beginning around January. The Local Public Safety Coordinating Committee takes up the global public safety budgeting concept October 26 at 1:30. The Public Safety Service Area said it will keep promoting the online fireworks-reporting tool before July 4th and New Year's Eve.", "summaryText": "The Community and Public Safety Committee referred an updated Secondhand Dealers Code to the full City Council 4-0, after adding a $25 background check fee and stripping a catch-all data-collection clause over privacy concerns.\n\nThe committee voted 4-0, with Councilor Loretta Smith (District 1) absent, to send the amended ordinance to City Council with a recommendation to pass (01:19:49). The measure, introduced by Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) through the Revenue Division, eliminates a separate fee classification for occasional secondhand dealers and updates program fees. Tim Mercer, Tax Division Manager for Revenue, said the occasional-dealer category was dropped because \"it takes the same amount of time for us to administer an occasional dealer permit as it does the full permit\" (00:23:49).\n\nThe committee first adopted an amendment, Novick 2, 3-0 (00:29:17) clarifying that only owners, managers and people authorized to buy regulated property need a background check — a security guard would not. Novick said the change also added a $25 background check fee for a process the city already performs without charge (00:36:16).\n\nCouncilor Sameer Kanal (District 2) pressed on data privacy and moved a second amendment, Kanal 1, striking a provision that let the city administrator require \"any other information the city administrator may reasonably feel is necessary.\" It passed 4-0 (01:04:06). Mercer said he had never used that clause and that it was \"okay to withdraw\" (00:45:18); the City Administrator said such language gives flexibility to address issues \"that need to be added to it\" later (00:45:33).\n\nKanal and Councilor Angelita Morillo (District 3) both tied their reservations to the city's Data Privacy Office, which is not yet staffed. Morillo asked whether personal history forms, including arrest records, are disclosable public records. Novick later relayed that city attorney Ken McGare believed the personal-privacy exemption would cover at least some of the form, though not necessarily all (01:17:46). Morillo noted she had voted against a recent police surveillance-technology grant for the same reason, saying it is \"much more difficult to claw things back once they have been approved\" (01:16:00). The City Administrator said the office's bureau lead should be hired by December and the independent review operational around January (01:14:29). Kanal said he would vote aye but \"reserve the right to change my opinion at the full council\" (01:19:38).\n\nA drafting dispute surfaced when Kanal found deleted language (a fee-assessment line, D2) that was not marked as removed. Spencer Knowles, Chief of Staff for Councilor Steve Novick, said drafting guidelines bar redlining amendment language. Kanal said \"Not trying to imply there was any bad intent there\" and asked that the guidelines be revisited (00:43:05). The clerk confirmed no one signed up to testify (01:19:14).\n\nDan Douthit, public information officer with Portland's Public Safety Service Area, said about 30 fires were attributed to fireworks this past July 4th, down slightly from 27 in 2025, and recalled a 2021 Northeast Portland apartment fire that killed three people. Portland banned all fireworks in 2022. An online reporting tool and expanded 311 hours helped cut the average 911 wait on July 4th from 26 seconds in 2024 to 8 seconds in 2025 (01:34:00).\n\nDeputy Chief Brian Hughes of the Portland Police Bureau, appearing online, said he was not aware of any citations issued this July 4th (01:38:28). Novick said that without enforcement, \"we might as well not have the law,\" and that if nothing changes he \"might suggest we just repeal the ban because it's pointless\" (01:38:58). Hughes called it a question of \"incremental change\" and cited equity concerns about choosing whom to cite when \"thousands of people\" are involved (01:40:28).\n\nCouncilor Eric Zimmerman (District 4) argued the ban raises the negligence standard in catastrophic fires and deters well-meaning residents, but warned against a statewide push given that Washington sells fireworks illegal in Oregon: \"it's going to happen, and it's like trying to stop water\" (01:45:51).\n\nNovick briefed the committee on a concept to have the state give each county a global public safety budget, charging prison costs against it to force spending trade-offs (00:13:39). He said it is not yet a bill and he hopes legislators have \"something to forward\" by the next session. Kanal asked for safeguards against counties shifting money toward incarceration. The Local Public Safety Coordinating Committee will discuss it October 26 at 1:30.\n\nMarisol Lozano-Peralta of the Portland Bureau of Emergency Management's Community Engagement and Operations team presented on the Great Oregon ShakeOut drill, held October 15 at 10:15 AM. She said Cascadia earthquakes average every 246 years, the last was about 327 years ago, and geologists put the chance of an 8.0 within 50 years at 30%. Novick said bolting a home to its foundation can cost as little as $5,000 to $6,000 (01:27:38). Committee members ran a brief drop-cover-and-hold drill.\n\nThe amended Secondhand Dealers Code goes to the full City Council, where Kanal said he may reconsider his vote. The City Administrator said the Data Privacy Office's lead should be hired by December, with independent review beginning around January. The Local Public Safety Coordinating Committee takes up the global public safety budgeting concept October 26 at 1:30. The Public Safety Service Area said it will keep promoting the online fireworks-reporting tool before July 4th and New Year's Eve.", "summaryLede": "The Community and Public Safety Committee referred an updated Secondhand Dealers Code to the full City Council 4-0, after adding a $25 background check fee and stripping a catch-all data-collection clause over privacy concerns.", "sections": [ { "title": "Regular Agenda", "startTime": "00:10:55.298", "endTime": "01:48:28.916", "items": [ { "title": "Discussion of global state budgeting for public safety concept", "startTime": "00:10:55.298", "endTime": "00:21:04.032", "agendaItemNumber": 1 }, { "title": "Amend Secondhand Dealers Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees", "startTime": "00:21:04.032", "endTime": "01:20:01.765", "agendaItemNumber": 2 }, { "title": "Great ShakeOut earthquake drill preparedness presentation", "startTime": "01:20:01.765", "endTime": "01:31:27.115", "agendaItemNumber": 3 }, { "title": "2026 fireworks season recap and enforcement", "startTime": "01:31:27.115", "endTime": "01:48:28.916", "agendaItemNumber": 4 } ] } ], "cues": [ { "id": "cue-1", "start": 655.298, "end": 655.764, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-2", "start": 656.503, "end": 661.854, "text": "It is Tuesday, October 6th, 2026, at 9:34 AM.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-3", "start": 662.609, "end": 666.159, "text": "Um, I call this meeting of the committee and Public Safety Committee to order.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-4", "start": 666.968, "end": 668.085, "text": "Uh, could the clerk please call the roll?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-5", "start": 669.96, "end": 670.285, "text": "Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-6", "start": 671.927, "end": 672.318, "text": "Smith.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-7", "start": 673.814, "end": 674.383, "text": "Kanal.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-8", "start": 674.464, "end": 674.708, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-9", "start": 677.201, "end": 677.913, "text": "Here virtually.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-10", "start": 680.434, "end": 680.628, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-11", "start": 683.521, "end": 686.827, "text": "Uh, could we hear the statement of conduct?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-12", "start": 688.193, "end": 690.94, "text": "Welcome to the meeting of the Community and Public Safety Committee.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-13", "start": 691.246, "end": 701.61, "text": "To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at www.portland.gov/council/agenda thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-14", "start": 707.107, "end": 711.325, "text": "Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-15", "start": 711.696, "end": 715.778, "text": "Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-16", "start": 716.311, "end": 719.393, "text": "In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-17", "start": 719.845, "end": 725.71, "text": "For public testimony during today's meeting, individuals may testify for 90 seconds unless the chair states otherwise.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-18", "start": 726.064, "end": 728.465, "text": "Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-19", "start": 728.966, "end": 730.201, "text": "The chair preserves order.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-20", "start": 730.362, "end": 738.573, "text": "Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-21", "start": 739.022, "end": 740.818, "text": "If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-22", "start": 741.331, "end": 744.025, "text": "Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-23", "start": 744.458, "end": 747.57, "text": "Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-24", "start": 747.987, "end": 751.611, "text": "Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-25", "start": 752.06, "end": 754.049, "text": "Your testimony should address the matter being considered.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-26", "start": 754.37, "end": 756.424, "text": "When testifying, state your name for the record.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-27", "start": 756.845, "end": 759.514, "text": "If you are a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-28", "start": 760.048, "end": 763.154, "text": "Virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-29", "start": 763.51, "end": 763.767, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-30", "start": 766.04, "end": 766.298, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-31", "start": 768.377, "end": 784.007, "text": "So we have a reordering in the agenda this morning because due to traffic jams, PSSA people who are going to be part of the presentations on fireworks and on the Great Shakeout have been delayed.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-32", "start": 784.665, "end": 795.139, "text": "So instead, we're going to start with, you know, the global state budgeting for public safety, then move on to the secondhand dealers amendments, then Great Shakeout, then fireworks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-33", "start": 795.91, "end": 808.874, "text": "And actually, I'm disappointed that the other 2 councilors aren't here because the first item is— oh, actually, could the clerk call the new first item?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-34", "start": 808.923, "end": 809.148, "text": "Sorry.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-35", "start": 810.8, "end": 818.967, "text": "Yes, item number 1, document number 2026-351, discussion of global state budgeting for public safety concept.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-36", "start": 819.91, "end": 820.263, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-37", "start": 821.147, "end": 832.349, "text": "So this item is here in that this is basically a heads up that I wanted to give members of the committee about something I'm working on that is public safety, but is far beyond the city.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-38", "start": 834.945, "end": 838.872, "text": "The criminal justice system, and I've I think I might have talked— I certainly talked to Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-39", "start": 838.936, "end": 840.811, "text": "I think I've talked to Councilor Morillo about this before.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-40", "start": 841.019, "end": 848.601, "text": "But the concept is the criminal justice system has a kind of a bizarre feature that doesn't exist in any other area of public policy.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-41", "start": 849.178, "end": 854.131, "text": "There's a group of people, namely prosecutors, that have an unlimited budget for one thing, namely prisons.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-42", "start": 854.644, "end": 859.341, "text": "When prosecutors and judges send people to prison, the state has to pay for it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-43", "start": 859.693, "end": 861.729, "text": "There's no discussion of budgetary trade-offs.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-44", "start": 862.162, "end": 863.588, "text": "There's no incentives to use prison less.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-45", "start": 863.636, "end": 867.661, "text": "I think I've talked to Councilor it's just, you know, it's as if prison is free.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-46", "start": 869.66, "end": 908.688, "text": "And since any free good tends to be overused, and since most people who study criminal justice carefully recognize that prison, by and large, is a rather ineffective way of preventing crime, the concept that I've been floating with the Multnomah County commissioners and with an assortment of legislators is— and this is something that would take a long time to achieve— is what if the state went to a system of giving each county an overall public safety budget and said— they give school districts an overall budget and said, you can spend this on whatever public safety things you want.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-47", "start": 909.282, "end": 913.293, "text": "When you send people to prison, the cost of that comes out of your budget.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-48", "start": 913.934, "end": 925.14, "text": "So what the, the hoped-for result is that county commissioners would then sit down with their DAs and with all their experts and say, okay, We have this big pot of money.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-49", "start": 925.64, "end": 927.625, "text": "How much of it do we think should go to supervision?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-50", "start": 928.061, "end": 929.094, "text": "How much to jails?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-51", "start": 929.352, "end": 932.16, "text": "How much to reentry programs?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-52", "start": 932.208, "end": 934.281, "text": "How much to alcohol and drug treatment programs?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-53", "start": 934.711, "end": 936.033, "text": "How much to restorative justice?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-54", "start": 937.37, "end": 963.331, "text": "Maybe you reallocate some of it to the sheriff's office, to the sheriff deputies or police, and come up with a rational allocation of resources, which— but where— Prison is recognized as a cost, and people have a decision, and decisions are made about, okay, if we have an opportunity to send, we could send somebody to prison for 4 years or send them for 2 years, and we could use that savings to do something else.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-55", "start": 964.165, "end": 969.137, "text": "So I've been discussing this topic with some of the key legislators in public safety.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-56", "start": 969.763, "end": 979.257, "text": "Vince Jones-Dixon of Multnomah County is really interested, and we're actually having a meeting of LPSIC, the Local Public Safety Coordinating Committee, where this is gonna be discussed on October 26th.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-57", "start": 979.707, "end": 980.365, "text": "At 1:30.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-58", "start": 980.911, "end": 984.092, "text": "So if anybody's interested in that discussion, I encourage you to come.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-59", "start": 984.846, "end": 995.752, "text": "And we're also going to have an academic from the— who's affiliated with the University of Chicago, who's one of the big national brains on public safety, who's intrigued with this idea, and he's going to present as well.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-60", "start": 996.347, "end": 999.254, "text": "So again, I just wanted to give you a heads up on that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-61", "start": 999.382, "end": 1015.12, "text": "It's conceivable that in some future legislative session, support of this idea might be suggested for for our legislative agenda, but mostly because this is something we're working on and there's a public discussion of it in a few weeks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-62", "start": 1015.184, "end": 1016.883, "text": "I wanted to make sure people here were aware of it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-63", "start": 1018.342, "end": 1021.82, "text": "So that's any questions?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-64", "start": 1022.093, "end": 1023.455, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-65", "start": 1024.658, "end": 1025.539, "text": "Thank you, Chair Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-66", "start": 1025.764, "end": 1026.998, "text": "I appreciate the update on this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-67", "start": 1027.142, "end": 1029.579, "text": "And I think, I guess I have 2 questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-68", "start": 1029.627, "end": 1031.999, "text": "One is just a pure overarching process question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-69", "start": 1032.432, "end": 1037.065, "text": "The city role in this conversation is effectively limited to, are we advocating for this?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-70", "start": 1039.163, "end": 1041.454, "text": "Right now, Steve Novick is.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-71", "start": 1042.687, "end": 1050.072, "text": "I think that ultimately the question would be, would we on a legislative agenda support it?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-72", "start": 1050.457, "end": 1057.362, "text": "At this point, I think that there will— I'm hoping there will be preliminary discussions of the issue among legislators.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-73", "start": 1057.49, "end": 1059.14, "text": "I don't think there's gonna be a bill this session.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-74", "start": 1059.909, "end": 1065.099, "text": "What I'm hoping is that by next session, people will actually have something to forward.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-75", "start": 1065.756, "end": 1066.013, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-76", "start": 1066.093, "end": 1074.569, "text": "So those of us who happen to be here, the next legislative session might be asked to, uh, weigh in on whether it should be part of our agenda.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-77", "start": 1075.387, "end": 1076.965, "text": "Yeah, I, I guess the, the question then—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-78", "start": 1077.174, "end": 1077.899, "text": "The— that's—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-79", "start": 1077.899, "end": 1078.108, "text": "That—.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-80", "start": 1078.205, "end": 1078.656, "text": "Thank you for that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-81", "start": 1078.704, "end": 1088.245, "text": "The, the other piece is you mentioned, um, so you said you can spend this on whatever public safety things you want, that when you send people to prison, that comes out of this budget.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-82", "start": 1088.84, "end": 1099.789, "text": "And then, um, my, my question is, I guess, how broadly are we defining Public safety in terms of the universe of what budgets are being combined?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-83", "start": 1100.271, "end": 1102.888, "text": "I'm not proposing a specific definition.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-84", "start": 1102.984, "end": 1113.034, "text": "I think that— but it would include whatever the state is currently giving money to the counties for, like community corrections and restorative justice grants.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-85", "start": 1113.195, "end": 1116.615, "text": "Okay, so that's the first part, the restorative justice you mentioned.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-86", "start": 1116.663, "end": 1119.505, "text": "You also mentioned drug treatment and reentry programs.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-87", "start": 1120.259, "end": 1127.007, "text": "Well, I mean, there is, I mean, there is money for those through Medicaid, through the health department, etc.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-88", "start": 1127.553, "end": 1143.557, "text": "Um, what I'm envisioning is that, um, the reason I bring that up is that to the extent that those programs are underfunded through the current healthcare system, maybe if you had a lump sum budget, you could use some of the money that you might be saving on prisons to top up those services.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-89", "start": 1144.12, "end": 1148.07, "text": "But that's just a— I mean, again, this is very general concept.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-90", "start": 1148.134, "end": 1150.123, "text": "That might not make sense, but that's why I put that in there.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-91", "start": 1150.219, "end": 1151.181, "text": "No, I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-92", "start": 1151.582, "end": 1151.662, "text": "The—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-93", "start": 1152.047, "end": 1160.69, "text": "I guess the thing that I would want to make sure is that we're being clear with the legislature that it doesn't allow for the rebalancing to go the other direction.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-94", "start": 1160.882, "end": 1171.113, "text": "Because I can imagine in the counties up here, uh, that the direction that the money might shift over time would probably be a direction that we agreed on.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-95", "start": 1171.69, "end": 1173.951, "text": "But I don't know if that's the case for all the other counties in the state.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-96", "start": 1174.89, "end": 1177.7, "text": "So I'd be curious about just whatever protections there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-97", "start": 1177.7, "end": 1182.02, "text": "I don't think you have to have that answer right now, and I don't mean to put— I'm not trying to put you on the spot with it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-98", "start": 1182.119, "end": 1194.39, "text": "And I mean, I should tell you that the sheriff's reaction to this idea was, I don't want the legislature being— I'm afraid the legislature would just cut the global public safety budget every year.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-99", "start": 1194.79, "end": 1201.19, "text": "So I don't think that she's particularly excited about prisons, but I think she kind of thinks, well, at least there's one budget they can't cut.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-100", "start": 1201.47, "end": 1203.17, "text": "So that's going to be part of the discussion.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-101", "start": 1203.54, "end": 1211.058, "text": "Well, as we all know, the legislature loves to put money towards transit and healthcare and education, so I guess that's a fear that we all share.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-102", "start": 1211.508, "end": 1211.845, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-103", "start": 1212.006, "end": 1225.598, "text": "Well, I mean, I will say that the reaction I got— and I'm not going to like name names— the reaction I got to some of the key public safety legislators was rather encouraging, that they did not dismiss this idea.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-104", "start": 1225.662, "end": 1235.887, "text": "Some of them said that— one particular one, I think he might probably quote him on this, but I won't— has said that his goal is to have us be the safest state with the least level of incarceration.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-105", "start": 1236.08, "end": 1237.531, "text": "So this sort of fits in with that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-106", "start": 1238.569, "end": 1240.964, "text": "So, um, again, good goal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-107", "start": 1241.094, "end": 1243.312, "text": "Yeah, thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-108", "start": 1243.684, "end": 1244.024, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-109", "start": 1247.183, "end": 1248.191, "text": "Uh, all right.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-110", "start": 1250.789, "end": 1251.049, "text": "Whoops.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-111", "start": 1252.589, "end": 1256.677, "text": "Okay, I thought that might be Councilor Zimmerman, but it's another random bald guy.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-112", "start": 1257.115, "end": 1263.367, "text": "So could the clerk please read the second item?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-113", "start": 1264.033, "end": 1278.97, "text": "It's the new item number 2, document number 2026-327, amend secondhand dealers code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees, amend code chapter 14B.90.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-114", "start": 1285.392, "end": 1285.878, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-115", "start": 1287.052, "end": 1295.505, "text": "This item was referred to committee to allow some additional workshopping time by my office and the revenue team following some questions from Councilor Kanal on background checks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-116", "start": 1296.034, "end": 1310.631, "text": "We took that time to put in language clarifying that the only, only people directly engaged in management or ownership of the business and those who are authorized by the business to actually buy and receive regulated property require background checks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-117", "start": 1311.433, "end": 1316.769, "text": "So as to one of Councilor Kanal's questions, a security guard would not be required to have a background check, for example.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-118", "start": 1317.705, "end": 1328.379, "text": "The changes are made in Novick 2, which was posted yesterday, and which I'd now like to move and ask for a second and then bring the revenue team up for further discussion.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-119", "start": 1329.75, "end": 1331.026, "text": "So I hereby move Novick 2.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-120", "start": 1331.855, "end": 1332.435, "text": "I'll second.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-121", "start": 1334.75, "end": 1337.18, "text": "Councilor Novick moves, Councilor Kanal seconds.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-122", "start": 1339.874, "end": 1358.224, "text": "And now I'd like to, I mean, ask the team up to sort of refresh us on what the original amendments were, which include eliminating distinction for fee purposes between occasional and non-occasional dealers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-123", "start": 1359.06, "end": 1361.855, "text": "But I'll let them take it away.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-124", "start": 1361.936, "end": 1372.702, "text": "Remind us what the original amendments were on secondhand dealers and add anything you think needs to be added to my discussion of what We're changing, proposing to change in Novick 2.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-125", "start": 1374.224, "end": 1374.531, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-126", "start": 1374.888, "end": 1379.527, "text": "Tim Mercer, Tax Division Manager for Revenue.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-127", "start": 1380.524, "end": 1381.632, "text": "Thanks for the time this morning.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-128", "start": 1382.323, "end": 1388.734, "text": "So reminder on this package, this was included in a package rather.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-129", "start": 1389.233, "end": 1396.739, "text": "So this is one piece of a package looking at kind of all of the regulatory programs that Revenue administers.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-130", "start": 1398.077, "end": 1407.086, "text": "4 Of those pieces of this package are— have been, you know, moved to council, and this one was held back.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-131", "start": 1408.096, "end": 1413.675, "text": "So we took a holistic look at all of the regulatory programs we administer.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-132", "start": 1414.284, "end": 1428.006, "text": "We wanted to get rid of one of those programs as well as update fee schedules for all of the programs, most of which hadn't been updated in quite a long time, if ever.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-133", "start": 1428.15, "end": 1428.358, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-134", "start": 1429.594, "end": 1448.473, "text": "So specifically here for secondhand dealers, the major changes, the point of these changes was around updating the fee schedule, eliminating the occasional dealer classification.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-135", "start": 1448.764, "end": 1458.496, "text": "And that's simply because it takes the same amount of time for us to administer an occasional dealer permit as it does the full permit.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-136", "start": 1458.544, "end": 1464.353, "text": "So it didn't make sense from a cost recovery standpoint to have 2 fee structures.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-137", "start": 1466.492, "end": 1477.342, "text": "And then just kind of tweaking some of the language in the program to hopefully improve the administration of the program.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-138", "start": 1478.508, "end": 1483.383, "text": "So that's kind of the high-level background on what's going on here.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-139", "start": 1486.241, "end": 1486.654, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-140", "start": 1487.97, "end": 1488.857, "text": "Any questions for the team?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-141", "start": 1490.954, "end": 1493.228, "text": "Are we on just the amendment or on the—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-142", "start": 1493.228, "end": 1494.405, "text": "Um, just—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-143", "start": 1497.899, "end": 1498.783, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-144", "start": 1499.49, "end": 1499.731, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-145", "start": 1500.053, "end": 1500.358, "text": "Uh, thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-146", "start": 1500.471, "end": 1525.329, "text": "I, I guess I just want to understand, because the, the amendment itself adds, and it's, it's a little, uh, confusing because the track changes is all showing, but my understanding is the amendment is just the 8 Uh, sorry, 20 point— I'm gonna make sure I get this right— 14B.90.40, Part B8, which is at the sort of bottom of page 10.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-147", "start": 1525.959, "end": 1534.628, "text": "Um, and I just wanted to, to unders— to, to clarify with you in terms of, um, what has changed here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-148", "start": 1535.161, "end": 1542.079, "text": "What this would do is, is basically currently it's for people who can buy and this would take it to also be the principals of the company.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-149", "start": 1543.732, "end": 1544.283, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-150", "start": 1544.769, "end": 1548.866, "text": "Actually, what the language referred to is people who acquire.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-151", "start": 1549.317, "end": 1556.015, "text": "And I actually thought that that was rather vague because that might suggest that somebody who actually takes an ownership interest in something.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-152", "start": 1556.144, "end": 1561.978, "text": "So we wanted to— I wanted to make it clear that it's people who are authorized to like spend the business money to buy things.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-153", "start": 1562.804, "end": 1569.934, "text": "Okay, so the clarity, but in terms of the, The original intent was people who pay for it, it seems, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-154", "start": 1569.998, "end": 1570.19, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-155", "start": 1570.801, "end": 1573.578, "text": "So this makes it clearer, but then it also adds the principles.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-156", "start": 1574.012, "end": 1574.156, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-157", "start": 1574.558, "end": 1578.7, "text": "And, but it doesn't include everybody who sells.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-158", "start": 1578.749, "end": 1580.772, "text": "It doesn't include everybody who's a security guard, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-159", "start": 1580.836, "end": 1585.669, "text": "Like, so, okay, just making sure we get that on the record.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-160", "start": 1586.44, "end": 1591.855, "text": "And then I don't actually know if it defines, Verify this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-161", "start": 1593, "end": 1599.867, "text": "Um, yeah, so management and operation including any owners, uh, is the, the principle there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-162", "start": 1599.948, "end": 1602.402, "text": "And I'm sorry, I'm just like scrolling around here because the track changes a little.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-163", "start": 1603.177, "end": 1606.505, "text": "Can I get a clarification on what Part D means?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-164", "start": 1606.554, "end": 1608.783, "text": "This is the first section on the top of page 11.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-165", "start": 1609.333, "end": 1610.935, "text": "I'm, I'm broadly supportive.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-166", "start": 1611.081, "end": 1617.175, "text": "Obviously I seconded it for, um, 8, the, the header ABC.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-167", "start": 1617.791, "end": 1620.242, "text": "But I'm curious as to what would constitute a change.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-168", "start": 1620.31, "end": 1620.798, "text": "Like, is this if they move?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-169", "start": 1620.849, "end": 1625.92, "text": "Is what are the sorts of things that would happen to cause a change?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-170", "start": 1626.45, "end": 1644.943, "text": "Yeah, I think what we're intending there is if somebody had an arrest after their background check, for instance, they should— that would constitute a change of their personal history form, and they're supposed to notify us of that.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-171", "start": 1645.746, "end": 1658.372, "text": "And so would that be the, basically the content that's in B1 through 7, the sort of immediately above 7 sections?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-172", "start": 1664.579, "end": 1665.017, "text": "That's correct.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-173", "start": 1665.082, "end": 1669.702, "text": "Yeah, that's the, that's the, uh, section that refers to the personal history form.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-174", "start": 1670.739, "end": 1695.411, "text": "So if, if something that's laid out on that personal history form changes like an arrest or some other large piece of that, we would be expecting that they would file another personal history form with us, which would allow PPB to make the decision about whether to do another background check or change their status or something along those lines.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-175", "start": 1696.167, "end": 1696.327, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-176", "start": 1697.693, "end": 1711.957, "text": "Then my question for Chair Novick is, why did you choose to have the background check be performed by PPB as opposed to one of the other potential background checkers within the city or people we have contracts with?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-177", "start": 1713.89, "end": 1718.061, "text": "Well, actually, historically, background checks have already been performed by PPV.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-178", "start": 1718.206, "end": 1721.472, "text": "So that's sort of just a continuation of existing practice.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-179", "start": 1722.617, "end": 1722.847, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-180", "start": 1723.666, "end": 1723.813, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-181", "start": 1728.754, "end": 1731.61, "text": "Any further discussion of the amendment to the amendments?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-182", "start": 1733.719, "end": 1737.956, "text": "Uh, in that case, could the clerk please call the roll on Novick 2?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-183", "start": 1739.54, "end": 1740.363, "text": "Yes, thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-184", "start": 1742.274, "end": 1744.219, "text": "Uh, Zimmerman, absent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-185", "start": 1744.883, "end": 1746.699, "text": "Smith, absent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-186", "start": 1749.276, "end": 1750.443, "text": "Kanal, uh, to the amendment, aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-187", "start": 1752.031, "end": 1753.846, "text": "Morillo, aye.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-188", "start": 1755.029, "end": 1755.856, "text": "Novick, aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-189", "start": 1757.46, "end": 1760.302, "text": "The amendment is approved with 3 aye votes and 2 absent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-190", "start": 1763.536, "end": 1772.122, "text": "All right, now any discussion of the— and actually I would ask you guys to stay up just in case people have questions about the underlying, the underlying original amendment.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-191", "start": 1772.412, "end": 1781.623, "text": "Um, uh, any discussion of the original amendment including the elimination of the category of second— of occasional dealers, etc.?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-192", "start": 1782.267, "end": 1784.634, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-193", "start": 1785.133, "end": 1785.793, "text": "Uh, thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-194", "start": 1786.099, "end": 1791.299, "text": "Um, so I have no concern about the idea of eliminating the category.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-195", "start": 1791.364, "end": 1797.322, "text": "I think the presentation last time was really helpful in that regard.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-196", "start": 1797.872, "end": 1803.805, "text": "I'm not— my concerns have generally been around this same section of the B section.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-197", "start": 1803.935, "end": 1805.842, "text": "I will note, I guess, let me start with the question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-198", "start": 1807.46, "end": 1815.519, "text": "How has the— one of the things that came up when we referred it back to the CAPS Committee is engagement with the folks that would be affected by this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-199", "start": 1816.348, "end": 1826.528, "text": "And I just was curious if there had been more done on that since the time that, um, by either your office or by the staff, since the time that we talked about it last.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-200", "start": 1827.106, "end": 1829.081, "text": "No, no further engagement has been done.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-201", "start": 1830.414, "end": 1830.639, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-202", "start": 1830.799, "end": 1831.394, "text": "On your end at all?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-203", "start": 1831.683, "end": 1832.084, "text": "Uh, no.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-204", "start": 1832.646, "end": 1832.758, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-205", "start": 1832.919, "end": 1846.487, "text": "So I, I personally went into a, uh, uh, pawn shop that has, uh, several locations, uh, around the country, including here in Portland, and talked to the manager there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-206", "start": 1847.267, "end": 1855.639, "text": "It's not a representative sample because there are plenty of pawn shops that are not part of large national or regional chains.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-207", "start": 1857.952, "end": 1872.499, "text": "And, but I will say that there, there was immediately no concern because their comment was effectively like the company already requires all this anyway because it's part of a larger I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-208", "start": 1872.547, "end": 1872.885, "text": "Company.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-209", "start": 1873.03, "end": 1892.085, "text": "I haven't had a chance to get to a couple other places I've identified to look into, um, as a, uh, sort of, uh, representative sample, you know, combining it with this in terms of, um, a smaller location, in terms of a, a secondhand music shop specifically.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-210", "start": 1892.554, "end": 1899.272, "text": "My concern has largely been around anything we do that makes it harder to buy used musical instruments will make it harder for people to get into that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-211", "start": 1899.62, "end": 1906.537, "text": "And I think, um, That's a concern I still have, but I just wanted to kind of get that on the record.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-212", "start": 1908.339, "end": 1912.561, "text": "We have contracts with a few different companies to do background checks as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-213", "start": 1913.806, "end": 1942.38, "text": "I am concerned about the idea that this sort of— the original presentation implied that there was sort of a, not an assumption of there being something sketchy going on at all these sorts of establishments, but that there was a high enough risk that this, that the, The idea of imposing the burden of a higher level of data being forcibly shared with PPB in order to work there was justified.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-214", "start": 1942.476, "end": 1945.026, "text": "And that case has still not been made to me fully.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-215", "start": 1945.443, "end": 1953.043, "text": "I do think that the amendment improves it by making it clear who is subject to this and who's not, but I'm still not 100% certain about that piece.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-216", "start": 1953.701, "end": 1961.607, "text": "So I guess the other question, I know the answer because I know it's not fully staffed up yet, but, you know, the Data and Privacy Office has not been part of this conversation yet.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-217", "start": 1962.282, "end": 1967.434, "text": "Um, and I, I am interested in that sort of evaluation of legislation like this in the future.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-218", "start": 1968.14, "end": 1968.397, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-219", "start": 1968.878, "end": 1969.36, "text": "Understood.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-220", "start": 1970.162, "end": 1981.205, "text": "I mean, I think that, um, we did— I mean, the, the categories exist because there is a history of trafficking in stolen goods in these various— and musical instruments, apparently.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-221", "start": 1981.798, "end": 1982.89, "text": "There is such a history.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-222", "start": 1983.965, "end": 1985.907, "text": "You're— I should— yeah, that is correct.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-223", "start": 1986.892, "end": 1990.617, "text": "I think, but I'm not 100% certain.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-224", "start": 1991.119, "end": 2004.242, "text": "I'm gonna— I'm not 100% certain if it's the best place to go if one has stolen a musical instrument because of the sort of social media groups and things like that, that you can, you know, connect with people and sell something quicker on.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-225", "start": 2006.035, "end": 2013.21, "text": "Having said that, the thing that does make obvious sense, and which we've heard from some of the folks I've talked to as well, is that that's correct.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-226", "start": 2013.291, "end": 2020.671, "text": "That when it would make sense to go to a store, a regulated establishment, is if there was some sort of connection to an employee there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-227", "start": 2021.44, "end": 2023.276, "text": "That is the thing that would make it relevant.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-228", "start": 2023.341, "end": 2027.761, "text": "So I'm not disputing your underlying point there, but it is certainly a concern.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-229", "start": 2029.189, "end": 2037.598, "text": "I'm just trying to understand the ratio, the relative comparative level of concern about 2 different risks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-230", "start": 2039.377, "end": 2040.024, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-231", "start": 2042.145, "end": 2049.345, "text": "I should note that I've been reading Colson Whitehead's Harlem Trilogy, which focuses on a fence who is also the owner of a furniture store.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-232", "start": 2050.69, "end": 2056.434, "text": "So the idea of fences actually has a certain level of romance for me, although of course I'm opposed to it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-233", "start": 2059.53, "end": 2059.803, "text": "Any—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-234", "start": 2059.803, "end": 2061.092, "text": "Councilor Morillo?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-235", "start": 2062.204, "end": 2066.957, "text": "Yeah, I was just curious, does anyone have any responses to what Councilor Kanal said?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-236", "start": 2067.118, "end": 2072.544, "text": "I know he didn't phrase it as a question, but I think those are some the things that I've been thinking about as well.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-237", "start": 2072.898, "end": 2082.364, "text": "And I mean, to be frank with you, there's only 3 of us here today, so I want to make sure that we get things answered so we can— if it is, it does feel good, then we can move it through.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-238", "start": 2087.203, "end": 2090.683, "text": "Councilor Herbold, would you mind restating the specific question you're referring to?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-239", "start": 2093.29, "end": 2107.523, "text": "I mean, I think the things that I really have questions on internally until the Data Privacy Office gets really established is what you know, what things we keep approving as a council and moving through before that is established.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-240", "start": 2107.571, "end": 2109.691, "text": "And I think that's part of what Councilor Kanal touched on.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-241", "start": 2114.99, "end": 2127.567, "text": "Well, I think that, I mean, other than clarifying exactly who is subject to the background check, I mean, I think that we're just talking about continuing information gathering that we're already doing.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-242", "start": 2127.858, "end": 2128.69, "text": "Is that correct, team?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-243", "start": 2130.027, "end": 2130.843, "text": "Yeah, that's correct.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-244", "start": 2134.584, "end": 2137.7, "text": "So if the amendments were not approved, we would continue gathering information.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-245", "start": 2137.813, "end": 2143.204, "text": "We just have some, in my view, ambiguity in the language as to who is subject to the requirement.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-246", "start": 2146.053, "end": 2146.214, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-247", "start": 2146.279, "end": 2159.469, "text": "The changes are some clarification on who is subject to that requirement as, uh, As, as you just stated, um, the addition of the background check fee, which hasn't been there before.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-248", "start": 2160.256, "end": 2165.106, "text": "So in regards to background checks, those are, those are the substantive changes.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-249", "start": 2165.235, "end": 2169.422, "text": "We are already doing these, um, background checks without a fee.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-250", "start": 2171.08, "end": 2172.669, "text": "I apologize for not bringing up the fee before.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-251", "start": 2172.864, "end": 2175.215, "text": "And the, the amount of the fee is $20.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-252", "start": 2176.677, "end": 2180.811, "text": "Uh, the background check fee would be $25.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-253", "start": 2181.593, "end": 2182.165, "text": "Keep forgetting.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-254", "start": 2182.492, "end": 2183.374, "text": "That is another addition.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-255", "start": 2188.52, "end": 2190.023, "text": "Okay, Councilor Kanal, can I ask—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-256", "start": 2190.152, "end": 2194.097, "text": "So, okay, I have no problem with the idea of cost recovery.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-257", "start": 2194.453, "end": 2197.815, "text": "$25, Uh, makes sense if that's what it costs.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-258", "start": 2197.864, "end": 2202.536, "text": "I understand if you do a private background check, there's, there's costs as well, so this is, uh, comparable.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-259", "start": 2202.844, "end": 2204.606, "text": "Um, I guess I have 2 questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-260", "start": 2204.719, "end": 2212.674, "text": "One is, um, then this is, uh, D2, which is like 10 lines lower than the section we were just talking about on page 10.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-261", "start": 2213.333, "end": 2218.294, "text": "It says it'll be assessed to any principals and any employees.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-262", "start": 2218.872, "end": 2222.549, "text": "So the expectation is that the person themself is paying for it, not the company.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-263", "start": 2223.609, "end": 2227.767, "text": "Is that— can we speak to— can you speak to how that decision was arrived at?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-264", "start": 2229.068, "end": 2231.605, "text": "I don't actually think that's our expectation.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-265", "start": 2231.717, "end": 2239.761, "text": "So I think typically, and Leila can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think it's very typical for the employer to pay the fee.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-266", "start": 2241.623, "end": 2247.724, "text": "And that would be our general expectation, but we're not explicitly saying who needs to pay the fee.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-267", "start": 2248.752, "end": 2257.614, "text": "There's just a fee applied to background checks, which are done on the subset of individuals that you just mentioned.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-268", "start": 2257.662, "end": 2261.323, "text": "So folks acquiring property and principals.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-269", "start": 2262.222, "end": 2267.39, "text": "So I would understand that makes sense what you're, you're your explanation makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-270", "start": 2267.519, "end": 2280.251, "text": "The text says effective January 1st, 2027, a background check fee of $25 will be assessed to any principals and any employees operating in the City of Portland that would acquire regulated property.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-271", "start": 2280.989, "end": 2292.759, "text": "Wouldn't it— I mean, assessed for each background check would make that intention clear that you want it for each one and not, you know, one per company, but not necessarily say who's paying it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-272", "start": 2293.126, "end": 2298.947, "text": "I, I think it's a— am I wrong in, in reading that as saying it's on the, the, the person themselves?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-273", "start": 2299.617, "end": 2304.194, "text": "Uh, I— that's not the intent of that language, but I see, I see how you could get there.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-274", "start": 2304.712, "end": 2304.97, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-275", "start": 2305.682, "end": 2307.752, "text": "Councilor, for some reason I'm not looking at the right page.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-276", "start": 2309.217, "end": 2310.811, "text": "Uh, one more page.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-277", "start": 2312.275, "end": 2314.803, "text": "Um, this is—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-278", "start": 2314.851, "end": 2321.228, "text": "It's, it's here, so I don't know why I have it on my version.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-279", "start": 2321.613, "end": 2326.097, "text": "Um, I believe that text was removed from the most recent amendment.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-280", "start": 2326.611, "end": 2326.82, "text": "What?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-281", "start": 2327.334, "end": 2329.377, "text": "I believe that text was removed from the most recent amendment.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-282", "start": 2330.949, "end": 2331.127, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-283", "start": 2331.354, "end": 2332.764, "text": "Oh, okay.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-284", "start": 2332.845, "end": 2336.475, "text": "So then I'm— you're, you're— no, you're right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-285", "start": 2337.998, "end": 2340.21, "text": "Um, I had the, the old and the new version open.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-286", "start": 2340.759, "end": 2341.341, "text": "Can we get a—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-287", "start": 2341.954, "end": 2342.891, "text": "Okay, now I'm confused.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-288", "start": 2343.02, "end": 2352.042, "text": "Can we get a track changes version because if that's in the version that was referred to us and then it's in the amendment, it's removed, but it's not marked as removed.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-289", "start": 2352.252, "end": 2353.19, "text": "Does that make sense?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-290", "start": 2353.675, "end": 2355.346, "text": "Like— Yeah, I hear your concern.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-291", "start": 2358.154, "end": 2361.415, "text": "That's a, let's see, that's a reasonable request.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-292", "start": 2362.964, "end": 2363.419, "text": "We—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-293", "start": 2363.695, "end": 2366.536, "text": "And I have a different question while that's going on if you want to answer.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-294", "start": 2366.617, "end": 2367.071, "text": "I'm happy to wait.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-295", "start": 2367.136, "end": 2376.948, "text": "Let's see, well, the quick question is, can we, Can we put together a track changes version, which we should have had already, um, over the next like few minutes?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-296", "start": 2380.68, "end": 2382.972, "text": "Um, we ponder that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-297", "start": 2383.198, "end": 2385.393, "text": "Um, Councilor, go ahead and ask your further question.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-298", "start": 2386.022, "end": 2404.847, "text": "Yeah, um, it's regarding— and I'm gonna make sure it's in here now— yeah, the, the— it's part 7 of okay, I'm gonna get 14B.90.040, and this is a question for the city administrator.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-299", "start": 2406.452, "end": 2422.059, "text": "Um, I understand that the idea here of any other information that the city administrator may reasonably feel is necessary to accomplish the goals of this chapter is sort of in line with how we're writing code now, of not specifying necessarily specific bureaus, but instead putting this into the sort of hands of the administrative rules.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-300", "start": 2422.619, "end": 2426.412, "text": "To determine, um, and that's within the city administrator's, uh, role.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-301", "start": 2427.167, "end": 2433.306, "text": "Um, what sort of things— what will be the process should this, this, uh, ordinance pass?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-302", "start": 2433.63, "end": 2438.153, "text": "What will be the process for figuring out what would go into those requirements?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-303", "start": 2440.058, "end": 2453.187, "text": "I would sit down with various, uh, bureau leadership, uh, and really outline that and really have them provide me some recommendations with options as it relates to how this thing could truly function and flow from there.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-304", "start": 2453.886, "end": 2458.985, "text": "And from there, from a process standpoint, I would more than likely make a decision on that, Councilor.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-305", "start": 2460.295, "end": 2460.538, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-306", "start": 2462.317, "end": 2469.907, "text": "Would it— would engagement be a part of that role with the people that are being regulated?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-307", "start": 2469.956, "end": 2470.818, "text": "And I don't just mean the companies.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-308", "start": 2471.9, "end": 2475.797, "text": "I think engagement and equity would have to be a component of that.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-309", "start": 2475.877, "end": 2477.938, "text": "And that's some of the conversation piece that we would have.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-310", "start": 2478.819, "end": 2487.201, "text": "Okay, I, I will say I, I appreciate that clarity, and I, I, I like that answer in terms of answering the question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-311", "start": 2487.297, "end": 2499.557, "text": "It gives me pause in the sense of any other information seems to me to be sort of a figure it out administration, and I, I'm, I haven't— I'm generally not supportive of those in, in any context.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-312", "start": 2499.605, "end": 2510.181, "text": "So I'm trying to just understand here in terms of the level of data that'd be asked for, especially if you're If the starting point of the process, which makes sense, would be going and talking to the bureau that's receiving the data.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-313", "start": 2510.682, "end": 2513.074, "text": "So I just wanted to get that on the record too.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-314", "start": 2513.187, "end": 2515.94, "text": "And I might ask about whether or not we can remove Part 7 there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-315", "start": 2519.749, "end": 2527.078, "text": "Councilor Knoll, can I address the drafting concern with the red line of that specific D2 language?", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-316", "start": 2527.61, "end": 2527.739, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-317", "start": 2527.917, "end": 2530.345, "text": "So sorry, Chair, can I do that?", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-318", "start": 2530.539, "end": 2530.895, "text": "Yes, you may.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-319", "start": 2531.105, "end": 2531.445, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-320", "start": 2532.19, "end": 2534.585, "text": "Spencer Knowles, Chief of Staff for Councilor Steve Novick.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-321", "start": 2535.486, "end": 2548.786, "text": "Uh, I believe the guidance in drafting from the clerk is to not redline amendment language and instead reflect it as it's— as it would result when amended.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-322", "start": 2549.22, "end": 2560.803, "text": "And so that D2 was something that had been added in the initial amendment, and so you wouldn't redline that piece, you would just now reflect that it's no longer there.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-323", "start": 2562.513, "end": 2566.149, "text": "In the subsequent Novick 2 amendment.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-324", "start": 2566.586, "end": 2571.905, "text": "So it's kind of confusing in that it's getting lost in the new amendment, the superseding amendment.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-325", "start": 2573.524, "end": 2574.933, "text": "But that's the reason.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-326", "start": 2574.998, "end": 2579.963, "text": "It's following the drafting guidelines, which can kind of get confusing sometimes.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-327", "start": 2580.059, "end": 2585.007, "text": "So not intentionally trying to hide taking that out or anything.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-328", "start": 2585.522, "end": 2586.952, "text": "Yeah, no, I appreciate the clarity.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-329", "start": 2587.064, "end": 2589.408, "text": "Not trying to imply there was any bad intent there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-330", "start": 2591.278, "end": 2611.051, "text": "I think this is something I— if that's the drafting guidelines, we should probably ask the clerk to update those in some way because it is— that seems as though it cannot but create this problem in the future if something is being proposed to be added or removed and then an amendment to it would either restore deleted text or remove added text.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-331", "start": 2613.007, "end": 2618.368, "text": "But it doesn't help me right this second with what else Um, can— so do you have a version?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-332", "start": 2619.604, "end": 2623.86, "text": "These are all PDFs online, so maybe if I get the, the versions to do a compare versions on it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-333", "start": 2624.342, "end": 2626.526, "text": "But what else has changed in Novick 2?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-334", "start": 2626.591, "end": 2640.691, "text": "Because if you look at the explanation up at the top, it talks about just, um, adding, uh, B8, and it does talk about removing D2, but I just want to make sure that there's any— anything else that I'm missing.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-335", "start": 2641.044, "end": 2643.972, "text": "As far as my recollection, that is all we're changing.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-336", "start": 2644.166, "end": 2649.829, "text": "It was really just to provide that clarity around who the background check applies to.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-337", "start": 2649.926, "end": 2651.992, "text": "So very small change.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-338", "start": 2654.04, "end": 2656.624, "text": "But yeah, that's all I recall us changing.", "speaker": "Spencer Knowles" }, { "id": "cue-339", "start": 2658.094, "end": 2658.498, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-340", "start": 2659.144, "end": 2660.549, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-341", "start": 2660.614, "end": 2665.131, "text": "So that addresses the question that I'd asked earlier about imposed upon, and I appreciate the clarity there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-342", "start": 2666.218, "end": 2673.488, "text": "Still have the other concern regarding the thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-343", "start": 2673.681, "end": 2678.891, "text": "So, Council, are you satisfied with that and we can— we don't need to create a track changes version?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-344", "start": 2679.213, "end": 2687.523, "text": "No, I, I do think it, you know, this— I'll probably follow up with the clerk about it'd be helpful to have like access to the Word versions also if one wants to make an amendment to it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-345", "start": 2687.571, "end": 2692.703, "text": "It's also helpful, like if I wanted to remove Part 7 right now, it's kind of like where would that, you know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-346", "start": 2692.913, "end": 2693.001, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-347", "start": 2693.159, "end": 2710.288, "text": "So On item 7, any other information the city administrator may reasonably feel is necessary, I want to ask the team, do you think that— do you think that that's essential?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-348", "start": 2710.76, "end": 2712.729, "text": "I mean, Councilor Kanal suggested he might want to remove it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-349", "start": 2712.89, "end": 2715.037, "text": "I mean, would— how much heartburn would that cause us?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-350", "start": 2718.786, "end": 2720.554, "text": "I don't— I don't think that it's necessary.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-351", "start": 2720.749, "end": 2726.187, "text": "I've not yet had to utilize that portion of the text or anything close to it.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-352", "start": 2726.268, "end": 2729.163, "text": "So I think that that is okay to withdraw.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-353", "start": 2730.497, "end": 2732.027, "text": "City Administrator, any further thoughts?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-354", "start": 2733.666, "end": 2745.807, "text": "The only thing I would say in situations like this, having text like that does give some flexibility in the standpoint of looking at intent and how we are able to move forward intent of any policy.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-355", "start": 2745.936, "end": 2757.071, "text": "So having that flexibility within any ordinance gives the ability for us to work through anything that we may later find out that need to be added to it.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-356", "start": 2759.11, "end": 2760.359, "text": "And I, I recognize that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-357", "start": 2760.522, "end": 2783.279, "text": "I think we have— I just want to point out, you know, in parallel to this whole thing, um, and I'm going to get you the exact— there, there is a, uh, there is a context piece that I wanted to add here, which is that there's a directive review process going on at PPB right now that would take more of the privacy question outside of public view on procurement.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-358", "start": 2784.506, "end": 2798.79, "text": "And so I have a concern about the idea that the entity that's receiving the information in this could demand more of a population that is generally, you know, these are not well-paid jobs, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-359", "start": 2799.08, "end": 2802.48, "text": "On the whole, I imagine there are a few folks who are doing okay, but— Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-360", "start": 2802.768, "end": 2803.188, "text": "So I—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-361", "start": 2803.882, "end": 2806.287, "text": "People that are not necessarily in a position to push back.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-362", "start": 2806.885, "end": 2820.489, "text": "So that's my broader concern there is that I think that it's valuable to have it come back as a process and as a transparency piece and give folks the opportunity to say, actually, why do we need that information?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-363", "start": 2822.032, "end": 2830.175, "text": "I understand an arrest, that's obviously relevant, but if you go through the other 7 parts, there's other things in there I'll flag.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-364", "start": 2830.726, "end": 2834.187, "text": "And I apologize, I'm going back and forth between several different tabs now.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-365", "start": 2836.926, "end": 2839.438, "text": "So that's sort of my concern there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-366", "start": 2840.05, "end": 2853.045, "text": "I don't have this concern, by the way, with Part 7 of 14B-90040A, which also happens to be Part 7 of that one that talks about any other information the city administrator may reasonably feel.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-367", "start": 2853.191, "end": 2855.434, "text": "It's the same text, but it's as applied to the—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-368", "start": 2855.434, "end": 2855.821, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-369", "start": 2856.595, "end": 2857.468, "text": "The dealer itself.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-370", "start": 2857.727, "end": 2865.697, "text": "So I just want to clarify that for, for purposes of, um, uh, not, not making it seem like we're trying to take something else out.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-371", "start": 2870.9, "end": 2875.387, "text": "So, Councilor, um, were you intending to move to eliminate that item 7?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-372", "start": 2875.452, "end": 2879.762, "text": "Yeah, I'm trying to make a written version of it as rapidly as I can here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-373", "start": 2883.751, "end": 2890.049, "text": "Um, but it is— and while we're at it, we should talk about line numbers because it makes it a lot easier to, to do this quickly.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-374", "start": 2890.802, "end": 2902.245, "text": "Um, but yeah, it would be on the top if you look at the, the version in Novick 2, just to, um, since that's the version we're currently operating off of.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-375", "start": 2902.906, "end": 2909.315, "text": "It's in the middle of page 10, near the bottom actually, uh, part 7 there of, uh, 14B.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-376", "start": 2912.99, "end": 2915.643, "text": "14.90.040, And I'll get this over to the clerk as quickly as I can.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-377", "start": 2915.772, "end": 2918.103, "text": "It would just strike Part 7 in its entirety.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-378", "start": 2927.693, "end": 2930.701, "text": "Sorry, can you say the subsection again?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-379", "start": 2934.478, "end": 2935.697, "text": "14.90.040 As in boy, 7.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-380", "start": 3117.149, "end": 3117.471, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-381", "start": 3117.68, "end": 3120.643, "text": "I just realized I don't want to do the Spider-Man thing.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-382", "start": 3121.062, "end": 3123.913, "text": "Has the clerk received the language from Councilor Kanal?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-383", "start": 3128.961, "end": 3129.934, "text": "Not at this moment.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-384", "start": 3130.843, "end": 3132.417, "text": "Would the committee like to take a recess?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-385", "start": 3133.812, "end": 3134.006, "text": "What?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-386", "start": 3134.7, "end": 3136.04, "text": "A recess is an option.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-387", "start": 3136.54, "end": 3138.687, "text": "Um, sure.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-388", "start": 3139.301, "end": 3143.908, "text": "Let's recess for 10 minutes and reconvene at 10:25.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-389", "start": 3755.668, "end": 3760.244, "text": "All right, we are reconvening.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-390", "start": 3760.663, "end": 3763.819, "text": "And does the clerk have the text of Councilor Kanal's amendment?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-391", "start": 3764.366, "end": 3766.876, "text": "Yes, it's been in code review now.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-392", "start": 3767.343, "end": 3767.745, "text": "Into what?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-393", "start": 3768.485, "end": 3769.386, "text": "Yes, we have it.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-394", "start": 3770.817, "end": 3773.453, "text": "Okay, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-395", "start": 3774.336, "end": 3784.117, "text": "Yeah, I guess I'll formally move Amendment Kanal 1 to strike 14B.90 do we hear a second?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-396", "start": 3786.69, "end": 3786.868, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-397", "start": 3786.965, "end": 3787.337, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-398", "start": 3788.809, "end": 3789.764, "text": "Councilor Kanal moves.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-399", "start": 3789.861, "end": 3792.612, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman narrowly beat out Councilor Rio to second.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-400", "start": 3795.592, "end": 3807.348, "text": "Councilor Novick, while it's going through code review, I do have a few more questions if that's helpful to buy the clerk some time.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-401", "start": 3809.769, "end": 3812.767, "text": "I think that, um, the time has been brought.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-402", "start": 3813.815, "end": 3819.135, "text": "Okay, I do actually just have more questions then, but we can do this amendment first and then I'll go into that.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-403", "start": 3819.603, "end": 3824.46, "text": "Okay, um, don't see any discussion on the amendment.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-404", "start": 3824.605, "end": 3825.767, "text": "Could we call the roll on the amendment?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-405", "start": 3828.703, "end": 3831.345, "text": "Kanal 1, moved by Kanal, seconded by Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-406", "start": 3832.091, "end": 3833.047, "text": "Uh, Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-407", "start": 3835.088, "end": 3836.521, "text": "Smith, absent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-408", "start": 3837.632, "end": 3838.099, "text": "Kanal?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-409", "start": 3838.292, "end": 3838.469, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-410", "start": 3839.886, "end": 3840.208, "text": "Morillo?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-411", "start": 3842.704, "end": 3842.752, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-412", "start": 3843.911, "end": 3844.33, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-413", "start": 3845.959, "end": 3845.975, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-414", "start": 3846.428, "end": 3849.082, "text": "The amendment is approved with 4 ayes and 1 absent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-415", "start": 3853.14, "end": 3855.124, "text": "All right, returning to Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-416", "start": 3859.245, "end": 3859.91, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-417", "start": 3860.931, "end": 3864.124, "text": "I cannot see who's up front, but whoever wants to answer this.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-418", "start": 3864.95, "end": 3868.472, "text": "I was just curious a little bit more on the process part of this.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-419", "start": 3868.537, "end": 3875.782, "text": "So are employee personnel history forms, including arrest records, are those disclosable public records?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-420", "start": 3876.008, "end": 3878.467, "text": "And how long are they kept?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-421", "start": 3881.027, "end": 3881.91, "text": "I don't know the answer.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-422", "start": 3881.992, "end": 3882.352, "text": "Do you know?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-423", "start": 3886.283, "end": 3894.91, "text": "Yeah, so as far as we understand, they're kept by both Revenue and PPB once they're submitted.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-424", "start": 3894.975, "end": 3902.381, "text": "So that the list of stuff that's, that's in code that is submitted as part of the personal history would be kept by both departments.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-425", "start": 3902.446, "end": 3908.165, "text": "I can't speak for PPB about how long they keep them, but we're keeping those records.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-426", "start": 3908.952, "end": 3911.105, "text": "We've been keeping them since the start of the program.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-427", "start": 3911.362, "end": 3913.417, "text": "Have we done any purging?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-428", "start": 3914.317, "end": 3915.505, "text": "I have not done any purging.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-429", "start": 3916.581, "end": 3927.804, "text": "In terms of whether or not they're disclosable as a public record, I would assume not, but I would have to ask an attorney on that question.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-430", "start": 3928.125, "end": 3928.864, "text": "I don't know for sure.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-431", "start": 3929.265, "end": 3936.539, "text": "And we've never, as far as I know, had a public records request that included that information.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-432", "start": 3941.439, "end": 3941.842, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-433", "start": 3941.923, "end": 3944.228, "text": "Is there anyone here who can help answer that?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-434", "start": 3944.276, "end": 3954.104, "text": "Because I think that might sort of sway— because I think I just have a lot of questions about some of the data collection stuff.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-435", "start": 3954.33, "end": 3966.874, "text": "And we have the Data Privacy Office that's currently being established, but we keep moving forward with different policies and tech without going through that because it's not you know, they're still in the hiring process and all of that right now.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-436", "start": 3966.923, "end": 3968.697, "text": "So it's just something that's on my mind.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-437", "start": 3970.196, "end": 3977.734, "text": "And while I appreciate that no public record has ever been done, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be done in the future, right?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-438", "start": 3977.991, "end": 3981.975, "text": "And I think we live in a different time politically now with how things are going.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-439", "start": 3982.039, "end": 3984.914, "text": "So I'm just curious about that and like the long-term impacts on someone.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-440", "start": 3988.229, "end": 3998.604, "text": "How many— does someone know how many employees PPB has rejected under the current review in recent years and how much that check actually costs the city?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-441", "start": 4002.26, "end": 4003.231, "text": "Can you speak to how many?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-442", "start": 4003.896, "end": 4010.943, "text": "I don't have exact data on how many personal history forms have been rejected by the Portland Police Bureau.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-443", "start": 4012.257, "end": 4015.161, "text": "There are not a lot, but there are— there have been a few.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-444", "start": 4017.313, "end": 4024.545, "text": "In terms of the cost, PPB was the one that sort of told us what they would want to charge for this work.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-445", "start": 4025.85, "end": 4038.237, "text": "And our understanding is that, you know, the background check process can be dramatically different in terms of the length of time that it takes depending on the person being checked.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-446", "start": 4038.35, "end": 4062.056, "text": "So for instance, someone who has lived in Portland their entire life is probably a lot easier to background check than someone who has So there's kind of a wide range, and I, I think it's fair to say that they sort of picked a number that covered a large majority of the background checks.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-447", "start": 4063.888, "end": 4064.868, "text": "Okay, that makes sense.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-448", "start": 4066.362, "end": 4071.704, "text": "And how long do the reviews— it sounds like there's a lot of variance, but how long do the reviews usually take?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-449", "start": 4072.257, "end": 4080.673, "text": "And, um, Can employees still buy provisionally while they're waiting for this check to be done if it does end up taking an extended amount of time?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-450", "start": 4081.396, "end": 4086.887, "text": "So employees can't acquire or buy regulated property until they've been approved by PPB.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-451", "start": 4087.385, "end": 4090.179, "text": "I say that the standard processing time is 2 to 4 weeks typically.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-452", "start": 4090.388, "end": 4097.324, "text": "Sometimes they come back faster, sometimes it takes longer, particularly if there's a criminal history in states that don't have digital records.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-453", "start": 4100.47, "end": 4100.566, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-454", "start": 4101.13, "end": 4127.285, "text": "And, and I, um, we do, uh, I, I did a dive into our code really quick, um, and it's, uh, 14B.90.040, uh, currently, um, subsection D, uh, all of the personal information is subject to the requirements of the Oregon Public Records Law, ORS 192.311 through 192.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-455", "start": 4129.754, "end": 4134.216, "text": "So we would follow those expectations if we received a public records request.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-456", "start": 4136.469, "end": 4143.002, "text": "Um, okay, so I'm assuming that means— I, I don't have that code in front of me, so I don't know exactly what that outlines.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-457", "start": 4143.115, "end": 4144.938, "text": "I'm assuming that just means it's all a public record.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-458", "start": 4146.928, "end": 4152.375, "text": "I would assume it means it's a public record with redaction, but I don't have that code in front of me either.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-459", "start": 4154.055, "end": 4159.932, "text": "Councilor Morillo, Spencer is trying to get information from Ken McGare at the City Attorney's Office on this.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-460", "start": 4160.638, "end": 4162.79, "text": "So I don't know how long it'll take.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-461", "start": 4162.95, "end": 4164.62, "text": "I think it's a very good question.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-462", "start": 4164.717, "end": 4169.18, "text": "I don't know how long it'll take for us to get an answer as to whether it's the public record disclosure is disclosable.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-463", "start": 4170.272, "end": 4171.284, "text": "Okay, thanks, Spencer.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-464", "start": 4183.847, "end": 4195.982, "text": "I mean, given that the issues about, you know, how long we maintain the information, whether it's disclosable, sort of don't relate particularly to the amendments, but to, you know, sort of the underlying law.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-465", "start": 4196.113, "end": 4202.305, "text": "And I agree that there's questions that need to be answered, but I don't know that they're essential to answer them before we take a vote here today.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-466", "start": 4203.107, "end": 4203.81, "text": "Oh, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-467", "start": 4204.9, "end": 4207.15, "text": "Yeah, 3 things.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-468", "start": 4207.34, "end": 4213.18, "text": "First, just to clarify, I referenced a PPB process before, and you can learn more about that at portland.gov/police/directives.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-469", "start": 4214.5, "end": 4219.72, "text": "And I was referring to the replacement of 1205.00 with 1050.00.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-470", "start": 4219.72, "end": 4220.85, "text": "Just want to get that on the record.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-471", "start": 4221.48, "end": 4232.66, "text": "Secondly, to Councilor Novick's point, I think this is kind of similar to a previous ordinance you had as well, where there's code that's not really being utilized, but one of the net effects of the change is to have it be utilized more.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-472", "start": 4234.469, "end": 4238.46, "text": "Or to have it be utilized more clearly, maybe is a better way of framing it in this case.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-473", "start": 4238.973, "end": 4240.368, "text": "And so I think that's fair.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-474", "start": 4240.801, "end": 4242.548, "text": "I think your point's fair that you were just making.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-475", "start": 4243.926, "end": 4251.525, "text": "I just, I also know that it's helpful to understand and what the— I'll frame it as a question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-476", "start": 4252.984, "end": 4254.234, "text": "We've set up this office.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-477", "start": 4255.003, "end": 4256.414, "text": "It's not fully staffed yet.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-478", "start": 4256.686, "end": 4264.381, "text": "There have been, there's an ordinance, there's 15 other things that are happening that relate to data and privacy around the city right now.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-479", "start": 4264.445, "end": 4264.589, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-480", "start": 4264.686, "end": 4271.169, "text": "Ranging from autonomous vehicles, data centers, Amazon drones all over the city.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-481", "start": 4271.587, "end": 4286.576, "text": "What is the plan, big picture, as a city for when we're going to have this thing that you and Councilor Murillo proposed and council agreed to set up to actually be the filter between ideas, you know, evaluating these ideas?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-482", "start": 4287.796, "end": 4289.032, "text": "What is the timeline?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-483", "start": 4289.096, "end": 4290.284, "text": "What's the expectation here?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-484", "start": 4290.364, "end": 4298.681, "text": "Because this has come up in a few different places now that we don't, um, we have this system in theory but not in practice yet.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-485", "start": 4299.274, "end": 4303.12, "text": "And so I don't know what the, what the, what's a realistic expectation anymore.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-486", "start": 4304.225, "end": 4321.976, "text": "Um, well, I'm going to ask the city administrator to answer that, but I think that there is a distinction between this case and my product nuisance proposal because that was indeed a situation where something wasn't being used and we were thinking it might be used more, whereas we already are doing these background checks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-487", "start": 4322.04, "end": 4325.704, "text": "We're just trying to clarify who exactly is subject to them.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-488", "start": 4326.138, "end": 4334.719, "text": "But I'll ask the city administrator to respond to the question about what the prognosis is for setting up the office and having it operational.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-489", "start": 4336.4, "end": 4337.322, "text": "Are you talking about the—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-490", "start": 4337.37, "end": 4338.422, "text": "Data Privacy Office.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-491", "start": 4339.392, "end": 4343.871, "text": "Once we have the position, the office is already in the process being set up from a staffing.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-492", "start": 4344.243, "end": 4353.498, "text": "The question is regarding— we're out right now doing an executive search for the actual bureau lead for that office.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-493", "start": 4354.99, "end": 4367.487, "text": "Once we have that, and I'm thinking we want to have all these things in place this winter, so I want to have majority of all our executive roles finished by the close of December, about all necessary.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-494", "start": 4367.583, "end": 4378.187, "text": "So if we are currently working through, I think the advertisement should be closed this month and we're interviewing in the month of November, we should have someone on in December.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-495", "start": 4378.235, "end": 4378.395, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-496", "start": 4378.573, "end": 4379.269, "text": "For this office.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-497", "start": 4380.192, "end": 4380.515, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-498", "start": 4380.677, "end": 4384.449, "text": "And I appreciate the deliberate nature of that search.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-499", "start": 4384.562, "end": 4387.17, "text": "I'm not trying to ask you to cut corners here or anything like that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-500", "start": 4387.221, "end": 4388.198, "text": "So I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-501", "start": 4390.596, "end": 4399.422, "text": "At what point do we expect that— I think part of the idea, and correct me if I'm wrong, in particular, Councilors Murillo and Novick, because you wrote the legislation that set this all up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-502", "start": 4399.81, "end": 4418.58, "text": "But I think part of the idea is that if there's a proposed, you know, administrative rule, PPB directive, or council piece of legislation, Mayor's executive order, whatever, something that is a new proposal that this would get before a final approval would get evaluated by the Data Privacy Office.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-503", "start": 4419.334, "end": 4424.191, "text": "And at what point do you expect that that will be a regular occurrence or a possible occurrence?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-504", "start": 4425.425, "end": 4425.874, "text": "Hopefully.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-505", "start": 4426.628, "end": 4434.37, "text": "We currently now have practices where we go through data privacy through our BTS Bureau in reviewing that type of information.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-506", "start": 4434.947, "end": 4452.347, "text": "Having that independent office, I think you would really be looking at that, I'm thinking potentially kind of the start of the new year of having something like that where you— it's not a part of the BTS criteria and the work that they do, but it's something totally set aside from that independent office.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-507", "start": 4452.78, "end": 4459.107, "text": "But that is still contingent on making sure that we get the right person on board to help lead that work.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-508", "start": 4460.087, "end": 4469.192, "text": "We'd have to figure out some kind of a stopgap if we weren't able to be able to do that, to kind of figure out what could we do in that interim piece to be able to have that person on board.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-509", "start": 4469.24, "end": 4469.417, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-510", "start": 4470.043, "end": 4475.308, "text": "But I don't want any assumption that we're not doing this type of work currently.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-511", "start": 4475.758, "end": 4485.791, "text": "It's just not that independent review as council approved through their ordinance to have that kind of independent review of the work and ensuring that it happens at a certain standard.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-512", "start": 4485.952, "end": 4492.276, "text": "So we'll still be working through that piece of it, but I'm thinking January timeframe for a short answer.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-513", "start": 4492.357, "end": 4496.482, "text": "But we still have some components of that being conducted throughout the city.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-514", "start": 4496.531, "end": 4496.627, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-515", "start": 4497.34, "end": 4498.003, "text": "Appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-516", "start": 4498.116, "end": 4506.783, "text": "I guess then the question would be— the last question would be, what did BTS think of this, of this proposal that we're discussing?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-517", "start": 4508.739, "end": 4513.217, "text": "We'd have to get somebody from BTS in to kind of answer that question if we don't have it.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-518", "start": 4513.508, "end": 4519.714, "text": "I don't know if they would have been consulted on sort of a clarification of an existing process.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-519", "start": 4520.375, "end": 4521.084, "text": "Probably not.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-520", "start": 4521.325, "end": 4522.614, "text": "Yeah, I don't believe so.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-521", "start": 4524.39, "end": 4549.126, "text": "Councilor Morillo, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that our assumption in creating David's Privacy Office was that it wouldn't just look at new proposals, would also look at our existing processes under preexisting laws and rules to see if there's ways in which we could improve on our protection of privacy, our store— you know, our decisions on storage, collection, et cetera.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-522", "start": 4549.174, "end": 4549.479, "text": "I think that's right.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-523", "start": 4553.584, "end": 4554.1, "text": "That's fine.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-524", "start": 4554.148, "end": 4555.518, "text": "Yeah, I think that is very correct.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-525", "start": 4555.744, "end": 4566.547, "text": "I think, so I get your point, you know, we can approve the amendment and then maybe the Data Privacy Office can review it later.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-526", "start": 4567.093, "end": 4576.612, "text": "I think the thing that I'm concerned about is that like a few weeks ago, we voted for an approval of a grant for PPB to purchase new surveillance tech.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-527", "start": 4580.343, "end": 4584.515, "text": "I voted against that because again, the Data Privacy Office hasn't had a chance to look at it.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-528", "start": 4584.691, "end": 4600.496, "text": "And the thing about data collection and data governance is that it's much more difficult to claw things back once they have been approved and implemented than it is to just start off saying we're not collecting this data and then keep moving forward that way.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-529", "start": 4600.994, "end": 4603.24, "text": "So that's all that I'm kind of concerned about.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-530", "start": 4603.304, "end": 4605.294, "text": "But yeah, I hear your point.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-531", "start": 4606.751, "end": 4612.499, "text": "And I know that the administration is working diligently to hire someone and set up the Data Privacy Office.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-532", "start": 4612.644, "end": 4615.26, "text": "I know CA Lee has been, you know, talking with our office a lot about that.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-533", "start": 4615.324, "end": 4627.503, "text": "So, I guess I'm also just kind of wondering, like, the number of things coming through this committee, can they wait till the Data Privacy Office is established so we can get that lens?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-534", "start": 4628.246, "end": 4634.77, "text": "Or is there a specific reason why there's urgency to move it through now before it gets that data privacy assessment?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-535", "start": 4634.834, "end": 4638.947, "text": "Because it's pretty clear BTS First of all, BTS is fantastic.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-536", "start": 4638.995, "end": 4639.621, "text": "They do amazing work.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-537", "start": 4640.069, "end": 4645.167, "text": "They don't have data governance analysis in the same way that the Data Privacy Office will.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-538", "start": 4645.263, "end": 4647.251, "text": "And that's just, that's part of why we did it, right?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-539", "start": 4647.299, "end": 4653.054, "text": "If the city was already doing something sufficient in this area, then we wouldn't have had to make a whole separate office for it.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-540", "start": 4653.519, "end": 4655.298, "text": "And Portland has been very behind.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-541", "start": 4656.645, "end": 4661.806, "text": "Other cities have already had a data privacy office, and this is standard in their work.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-542", "start": 4661.87, "end": 4662.031, "text": "So.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-543", "start": 4662.127, "end": 4662.239, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-544", "start": 4663.571, "end": 4665.288, "text": "So that's the heartburn I have about it, I suppose.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-545", "start": 4666.428, "end": 4666.749, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-546", "start": 4666.829, "end": 4671.21, "text": "And what I would say is that, I mean, we're already doing the background checks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-547", "start": 4672.206, "end": 4674.164, "text": "So this is not approving anything new.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-548", "start": 4674.79, "end": 4692.954, "text": "It's the intent of the background checks is to add this $25 fee, but primarily to clarify exactly who is subject to it and to clarify that it's only people who are authorized to actually purchase and, you know, take possession for the business of yes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-549", "start": 4694.442, "end": 4700.005, "text": "So I don't think that we're opening— we're not opening the door to something that we weren't doing previously.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-550", "start": 4701.119, "end": 4717.047, "text": "I also want to say that we have heard back from Ken McGare, and he believes that the personal privacy exemption to the public records rule would cover at least some of the information on the form.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-551", "start": 4717.433, "end": 4720.596, "text": "He says that there may be some parts of the form that aren't exempt.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-552", "start": 4720.681, "end": 4721.505, "text": "He'd have to look at it more closely.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-553", "start": 4723.472, "end": 4728.382, "text": "He thinks that some of the information would likely be protected by the personal privacy exemption.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-554", "start": 4735.234, "end": 4736.379, "text": "Any further discussion?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-555", "start": 4742.897, "end": 4743.236, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-556", "start": 4743.639, "end": 4747.082, "text": "In that case, could the clerk call for a vote on the underlying amendment?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-557", "start": 4749.446, "end": 4749.767, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-558", "start": 4749.832, "end": 4754.199, "text": "Yes, and I also just want to clarify that no one signed up to testify on this item.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-559", "start": 4754.809, "end": 4755.869, "text": "Thank you, I forgot to ask.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-560", "start": 4756.832, "end": 4762.291, "text": "And so, um, this is the motion to refer the ordinance as amended, moved by Novick.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-561", "start": 4762.452, "end": 4764.266, "text": "Was there a second?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-562", "start": 4765.021, "end": 4767.012, "text": "I'll second it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-563", "start": 4767.654, "end": 4769.774, "text": "Um, yeah, I'll second it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-564", "start": 4770.641, "end": 4771.01, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-565", "start": 4771.588, "end": 4772.295, "text": "Uh, Zimmerman?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-566", "start": 4772.873, "end": 4772.921, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-567", "start": 4775.082, "end": 4775.586, "text": "Smith, absent.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-568", "start": 4776.14, "end": 4776.595, "text": "Kanal?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-569", "start": 4778.011, "end": 4781.92, "text": "I reserve the right to change my opinion at the full council, but I'll vote aye today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-570", "start": 4782.792, "end": 4783.115, "text": "Morillo?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-571", "start": 4785.116, "end": 4785.165, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-572", "start": 4786.504, "end": 4786.891, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-573", "start": 4788.57, "end": 4788.586, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-574", "start": 4789.076, "end": 4790.415, "text": "The motion to refer is approved.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-575", "start": 4794.016, "end": 4794.5, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-576", "start": 4794.904, "end": 4798.63, "text": "Um, could the clerk please call the next item?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-577", "start": 4801.766, "end": 4809.552, "text": "Item number 3, document number 2026-350, Great ShakeOut Earthquake Drill Preparedness Presentation.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-578", "start": 4812.669, "end": 4814.7, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-579", "start": 4815.426, "end": 4816.393, "text": "Take it away, team.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-580", "start": 4833.545, "end": 4835.006, "text": "All right, well, good morning all.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-581", "start": 4836.29, "end": 4837.976, "text": "My name is Marisol Lozano-Peralta.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-582", "start": 4838.442, "end": 4844.943, "text": "I work with the Community Engagement and Operations team at the Portland Bureau of Emergency Management.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-583", "start": 4845.907, "end": 4853.354, "text": "I have been with the Bureau since January of 2024, and I also have my colleague here with me Jeremy Van Keuren.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-584", "start": 4853.403, "end": 4857.534, "text": "I'm the community preparedness manager for the Portland Bureau of Emergency Management.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-585", "start": 4859.67, "end": 4859.847, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-586", "start": 4860.749, "end": 4861.957, "text": "Can we please get the next slide?", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-587", "start": 4862.037, "end": 4862.408, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-588", "start": 4865.081, "end": 4876.929, "text": "One of the responsibilities that I have here at the bureau is to coordinate the neighborhood emergency teams, Net Unidos, which is also part of the Neighborhood Emergency Teams of Portland, or NET.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-589", "start": 4877.217, "end": 4877.782, "text": "For short.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-590", "start": 4878.509, "end": 4887.024, "text": "If you're wondering what the NED program is, it's a group of Portlanders that are trained and ready to respond during a disaster.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-591", "start": 4887.888, "end": 4892.564, "text": "And we often talk about earthquakes with the NED Unidos, so that's why we are here today.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-592", "start": 4893.833, "end": 4894.307, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-593", "start": 4899.295, "end": 4910.606, "text": "In this picture here is just a reminder to let us know that it doesn't matter how large an earthquake can be, Uh, it will still be, uh, somewhat impactful for us.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-594", "start": 4911.039, "end": 4922.049, "text": "Uh, just last week we had an earthquake of, uh, 4.2 magnitude in Tacoma area, and again, there were no significant impacts to that.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-595", "start": 4922.193, "end": 4936.766, "text": "But again, it's just a constant reminder to allow us to, to remember that we are in an area that is prone to earthquakes, and that's why it's important that we keep our community prepared for next, please.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-596", "start": 4936.912, "end": 4937.107, "text": "Skip it.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-597", "start": 4937.156, "end": 4937.984, "text": "Uh, we're going to skip that one.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-598", "start": 4938.065, "end": 4938.536, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-599", "start": 4940.241, "end": 4952.875, "text": "And right here, as you can see, this is the Cascadia subduction zone, which actually goes along the Oregon coast, and it's exactly where 2 parts of the Earth, uh, the Earth meet.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-600", "start": 4953.522, "end": 4957.388, "text": "And that is actually, uh, not a good thing.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-601", "start": 4957.728, "end": 4961.52, "text": "It might just, um, cause a very large earthquake eventually.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-602", "start": 4961.619, "end": 4969.157, "text": "And that, again, that's why there's another reason why we emphasize the importance of being prepared for earthquakes.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-603", "start": 4970.315, "end": 4971.103, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-604", "start": 4974.39, "end": 4979.715, "text": "Okay, and then Cascadia earthquakes have an average of every 246 years.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-605", "start": 4980.619, "end": 5005.017, "text": "We had— we have documentation from our last one being back in January of the 1700s, which was approximately— puts us like 327 years So we're a little bit behind on that, and the geologists predict there's a chance of 30% that we might have an 8.0 earthquake within the next 50 years.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-606", "start": 5008.361, "end": 5028.325, "text": "Fortunately for us, we have a great team of public engagement professionals from the City of Portland and around the region that work together to put this platform that It's, uh, resources and how to better prepare for an earthquake, and it also comes in different languages.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-607", "start": 5030.142, "end": 5031.154, "text": "And yes, thank you.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-608", "start": 5031.491, "end": 5031.877, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-609", "start": 5035.026, "end": 5045.462, "text": "At Public Alerts, you will not only, uh, learn how to put a kit together, but you will also learn how to create a plan that works best for your family and your neighbors.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-610", "start": 5046.283, "end": 5046.605, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-611", "start": 5046.735, "end": 5046.964, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-612", "start": 5049.974, "end": 5063.877, "text": "While it is important that we have the right plan and also the right supplies to survive during an earthquake, it is also important that we put these steps into practice, which is why it's important that we remember these 3 steps, which is drop, cover, and hold on.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-613", "start": 5066.264, "end": 5073.18, "text": "During— and if you happen to be in a wheelchair or in a mobility device, you will lock, cover, and hold on.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-614", "start": 5074.16, "end": 5082.012, "text": "Thankfully, here in Oregon, we have the opportunity to practice this together during the Great Oregon ShakeOut.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-615", "start": 5085.862, "end": 5088.308, "text": "Now, you may be wondering what is the Great Oregon ShakeOut.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-616", "start": 5088.859, "end": 5096.743, "text": "Well, that's actually a drill that was designed, again, for us to practice the drop, hold on, cover and hold on.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-617", "start": 5097.486, "end": 5099.878, "text": "And it actually happens every year.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-618", "start": 5100.25, "end": 5102.561, "text": "It takes place on October 15th.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-619", "start": 5102.674, "end": 5103.369, "text": "October 15th.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-620", "start": 5105.814, "end": 5112.931, "text": "So we would like to invite you all to participate for this upcoming Thursday, October 15th, at 10:15 AM.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-621", "start": 5113.946, "end": 5115.895, "text": "So please join us for this drill.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-622", "start": 5118.612, "end": 5119.321, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-623", "start": 5121.032, "end": 5128.744, "text": "And most important, please take a picture of it, post it online, use our hashtag that we have, #2026ORShakeOut.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-624", "start": 5129.162, "end": 5133.112, "text": "This will help us bring awareness to our community and how to better prepare for these types of disasters.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-625", "start": 5133.162, "end": 5133.325, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-626", "start": 5135.579, "end": 5136.174, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-627", "start": 5139.278, "end": 5143.927, "text": "And we also like to recommend that you, uh, download this app to your phone.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-628", "start": 5144.04, "end": 5157.657, "text": "This is an earthquake, uh, ShakeAlert that basically what this does is that it senses, um, the waves of, of an earthquake, and if it fits the right profile, it will, uh, quickly send a message out to the community.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-629", "start": 5158.24, "end": 5167.516, "text": "And this app actually reaches about 50 million residents and also visitors in the area of Oregon, Washington, and California.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-630", "start": 5168.567, "end": 5173.877, "text": "And again, this is, this is something to, to, to protect life safety and our vital systems.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-631", "start": 5175.63, "end": 5176.466, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-632", "start": 5178.707, "end": 5199.797, "text": "And if you are a gamer, um, we also have Lewis and Clark College and a few of our neighborhood emergency team volunteers that had the great idea of come up with this, uh, game called Cascadia 9 Game that is actually a place where you can practice as well your, um, earthquake skills, uh, you know, and what to do after an earthquake.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-633", "start": 5199.926, "end": 5202.499, "text": "And again, you can find that for free at cascadia9game.org.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-634", "start": 5208.126, "end": 5213.701, "text": "And if you like a little bit more challenge and a little bit more hands-on when it comes to practicing the skills.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-635", "start": 5214.199, "end": 5220.124, "text": "We also have the Shaky Grounds Cafe that was also created for, uh, from one of our NET volunteers.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-636", "start": 5220.943, "end": 5223.657, "text": "Um, again, this, this is very challenging.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-637", "start": 5223.93, "end": 5227.334, "text": "I know Jeremy already tried it and didn't do too well.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-638", "start": 5227.607, "end": 5238.589, "text": "Only about 72% of people are able to, uh, come up with the puzzles that they have in there, that any— every time that you, um, solve these puzzles, you earn a supply to survive after an earthquake.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-639", "start": 5239.256, "end": 5243.23, "text": "So again, this is located in Oaks Park, uh, close to the Sellwood Bridge.", "speaker": "Marisol Lozano-Peralta" }, { "id": "cue-640", "start": 5244.167, "end": 5246.219, "text": "And this is all from us.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-641", "start": 5246.283, "end": 5250.492, "text": "Well, thank you so much for allowing us to be here and talk about, uh, earthquake preparedness.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-642", "start": 5250.672, "end": 5253.661, "text": "If there are any questions, Jeremy is here to answer those.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-643", "start": 5258.573, "end": 5258.961, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-644", "start": 5259.219, "end": 5266.055, "text": "I actually do have a question, but I don't know if, um, there's no reason for me to think that any of you I don't know that you would particularly know the answer.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-645", "start": 5266.136, "end": 5271.349, "text": "Do we know how many homes in Portland are bolted to their foundations?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-646", "start": 5273.188, "end": 5273.285, "text": "We—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-647", "start": 5273.285, "end": 5276.722, "text": "Excuse me— we don't have that information.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-648", "start": 5277.4, "end": 5283.486, "text": "That is information, though, that we are going to be soon asking our neighborhood emergency team volunteers to assess.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-649", "start": 5284.988, "end": 5290.625, "text": "We do also know when houses were built, and we can kind of infer from that.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-650", "start": 5292.368, "end": 5297.847, "text": "What seismic codes they were subject to when they were built, so that can give us a shadow of an idea.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-651", "start": 5298.377, "end": 5303.567, "text": "Yeah, for anybody— I can't believe people actually watch city council committee meetings.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-652", "start": 5303.615, "end": 5313.014, "text": "For anybody who does, I mean, that's something that for a lot of houses it can cost as little as $5,000 or $6,000 to bolt the home to its foundation so it'll actually survive the earthquake.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-653", "start": 5313.641, "end": 5319.214, "text": "I think that in some places there's a requirement that when a house is is sold, it needs to be bolted down.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-654", "start": 5319.743, "end": 5323.996, "text": "And that might be actually an idea that we might consider at a certain point.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-655", "start": 5324.093, "end": 5325.473, "text": "But I just wanted to sort of put that out.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-656", "start": 5325.521, "end": 5327.479, "text": "I mean, there are some homes where it's really hard.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-657", "start": 5327.768, "end": 5334.653, "text": "Um, I think actually one of our previous PBIM directors, it took— cost her $30,000 to bolt her home to its foundation.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-658", "start": 5334.846, "end": 5343.448, "text": "But, um, it's— I mean, my— I did it in my home in Multnomah Village, and it really was like $4,000 or $5,000.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-659", "start": 5343.669, "end": 5347.967, "text": "So that's just something in addition to remembering to drop, cover, and hold.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-660", "start": 5348.096, "end": 5351.171, "text": "That's something that just wanted to put on the table as a good idea.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-661", "start": 5352.02, "end": 5352.408, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-662", "start": 5354.412, "end": 5356.094, "text": "First, thanks everybody for being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-663", "start": 5356.158, "end": 5357.629, "text": "Anytime we get PBIM here is a good day.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-664", "start": 5357.71, "end": 5361.332, "text": "And I see, I think that's Jamie in the back and Dan as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-665", "start": 5361.428, "end": 5365.162, "text": "And I appreciate everybody back there for everything that you do as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-666", "start": 5366.883, "end": 5375.29, "text": "And I guess the 2 questions I had first, The ShakeOut is during a committee this year.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-667", "start": 5375.37, "end": 5377.007, "text": "It is during Committee of the Whole that I'll be chairing.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-668", "start": 5377.504, "end": 5387.405, "text": "So wanted to follow up with you about how you'd like us to draw attention to that in that context, because I don't know about, maybe your committee's not as popular, but people do watch ours.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-669", "start": 5387.694, "end": 5389.01, "text": "I think people watch them both.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-670", "start": 5389.074, "end": 5392.027, "text": "But so just wanted to flag that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-671", "start": 5392.284, "end": 5397.034, "text": "And then did you say 50 million people have that app, get the notifications?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-672", "start": 5397.339, "end": 5398.045, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-673", "start": 5399.698, "end": 5403.031, "text": "That's, uh, that's more than I expected, so I just wanted to make sure I heard that right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-674", "start": 5403.436, "end": 5403.921, "text": "So thanks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-675", "start": 5404.391, "end": 5404.714, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-676", "start": 5408.754, "end": 5411.959, "text": "Um, any further thoughts, suggestions?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-677", "start": 5413.022, "end": 5426.163, "text": "Well, Councilor Kanal, um, since you hypothesized that maybe some people watch this committee, I suggest that we all, you know, take the opportunity to train for October 15th by dropping and covering ourselves for just, just a minute.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-678", "start": 5429.013, "end": 5435.566, "text": "Yeah, yeah.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-679", "start": 5452.768, "end": 5454.043, "text": "All right, thanks everybody.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-680", "start": 5454.317, "end": 5463.653, "text": "Just FYI, I want to let you know we do have rooms for this as well in these chambers, so if you just can't make it underneath your desks, you can go into one of the rooms.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-681", "start": 5467.48, "end": 5469.889, "text": "All right, thank you very much.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-682", "start": 5470.548, "end": 5479.258, "text": "Um, and, uh, I'm glad to know that we'll be, you know, doing the drop, cover, hold in the Committee of the Whole, um, on the exact time.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-683", "start": 5479.325, "end": 5482.654, "text": "Um, And could the clerk please call the next item?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-684", "start": 5483.572, "end": 5484.184, "text": "Thank you, guys.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-685", "start": 5486.536, "end": 5487.019, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-686", "start": 5487.116, "end": 5495.215, "text": "Item number 4, document number 2026-352, 2026 fireworks season recap and enforcement presentation.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-687", "start": 5497.24, "end": 5498.123, "text": "Uh, good morning.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-688", "start": 5498.38, "end": 5504.197, "text": "I'm Dan Douthit, and I'm the public information officer with Portland's Public Safety Service Area.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-689", "start": 5505.145, "end": 5507.754, "text": "Thank you for talking about fireworks this morning.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-690", "start": 5508.637, "end": 5519.998, "text": "I'm joined online, I believe, by Deputy Chief Brian Hughes with Portland Police Bureau, and also Fire Marshal Kerry Schimmel is available to answer questions.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-691", "start": 5520.767, "end": 5532.93, "text": "I'll give you a brief overview of what the city has done over the past few years to reduce the impact of fireworks on the community, and then give time for Chief Hughes to discuss enforcement.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-692", "start": 5533.507, "end": 5533.955, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-693", "start": 5535.237, "end": 5541.823, "text": "Fireworks are a seasonal problem around July 4th and somewhat around New Year's Eve.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-694", "start": 5542.544, "end": 5551.598, "text": "What is typically considered fireworks season begins several weeks before the 4th of July and then continues into the days beyond the holiday.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-695", "start": 5552.464, "end": 5555.492, "text": "We know fireworks cause fires and injuries.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-696", "start": 5555.925, "end": 5560.075, "text": "This past July 4th, about 30 fires were attributed to fireworks.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-697", "start": 5560.123, "end": 5560.235, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-698", "start": 5561.294, "end": 5565.913, "text": "In 2025, 27 fires were tied to fireworks.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-699", "start": 5566.522, "end": 5577.219, "text": "There weren't any injuries that were known in Portland this past year, but they, they happened around the region, and we know in many years they do cause injuries locally.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-700", "start": 5578.293, "end": 5580.106, "text": "They are sometimes responsible for deaths.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-701", "start": 5580.699, "end": 5585.975, "text": "In 2021, an apartment fire in Northeast Portland killed 3 people.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-702", "start": 5587.356, "end": 5590.614, "text": "Fireworks cause an increase in 911 calls.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-703", "start": 5590.968, "end": 5597.373, "text": "July 4th tends to be one of the busiest, if not the busiest, days of the year at the 911 call center.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-704", "start": 5598.448, "end": 5607.068, "text": "This is a problem because it increases 911 wait times for people that are in urgent need of help and can potentially delay responders.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-705", "start": 5608.304, "end": 5613.297, "text": "Portland officially banned all fireworks in the city in 2022.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-706", "start": 5613.923, "end": 5617.277, "text": "Including those that are considered legal in other parts of the state.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-707", "start": 5617.614, "end": 5618.336, "text": "And next slide.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-708", "start": 5619.62, "end": 5622.477, "text": "So if fireworks are illegal, why are they still a problem?", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-709", "start": 5622.669, "end": 5630.934, "text": "Well, despite the ban, fireworks remain popular throughout the region, including the ones that are illegal throughout the state.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-710", "start": 5631.978, "end": 5634.192, "text": "Policies differ in the region.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-711", "start": 5634.69, "end": 5638.574, "text": "Only a few places have similar bans to what we have in Portland.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-712", "start": 5639.199, "end": 5639.987, "text": "The last I Yes.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-713", "start": 5640.085, "end": 5645.902, "text": "In fact, Vancouver and Milwaukee have similar bans, but in neighboring jurisdictions it varies.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-714", "start": 5647.21, "end": 5652.317, "text": "The city has limited resources available both for public education and enforcement.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-715", "start": 5654.727, "end": 5678.43, "text": "About more than 10 years ago, Portland Fire and Rescue spent resources on education, and leading up to the 4th of July— and this is between 2012 and 2014— spent between $60,000 and $80,000 on advertising, and it had very little effect on the action— on changing the culture of fireworks in the community.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-716", "start": 5679.041, "end": 5679.635, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-717", "start": 5681.096, "end": 5693.656, "text": "Aware of these challenges, in 2025, a team of representatives from the Public Safety Service Area and 311 considered ways to reduce the impact of fireworks on the community.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-718", "start": 5693.704, "end": 5693.897, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-719", "start": 5694.844, "end": 5711.729, "text": "We took a narrow focus at looking at how do we reduce calls to 911, and by working with 311, we developed an online reporting tool and also temporarily expanded 311's hours on the 4th of July to help the public access the tool.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-720", "start": 5712.724, "end": 5725.983, "text": "The online reporting was intended as an option other than 911 to track fireworks with a long-term goal of identifying hotspots in the community that could help with possible education and enforcement.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-721", "start": 5726.947, "end": 5731.699, "text": "The information could also be available to investigators if fireworks caused a fire.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-722", "start": 5732.631, "end": 5742.056, "text": "I can tell you this past 4th of July, there were 3 fires investigated, but no fines as a result of a connection to fireworks.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-723", "start": 5742.458, "end": 5743.052, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-724", "start": 5744.272, "end": 5746.664, "text": "The online tool has been in place for 2 years.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-725", "start": 5747.018, "end": 5751.14, "text": "Starting in 2025, we noticed improvements in both thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-726", "start": 5751.14, "end": 5756.3, "text": "This year, we saw improvements in both the 911 wait times and in a reduction in 911 calls.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-727", "start": 5757.42, "end": 5766.72, "text": "Between 2024 and 2025, the average 911 wait time went from 26 seconds to 8 seconds on July 4th.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-728", "start": 5766.72, "end": 5773.4, "text": "This past year, it went up slightly but was still significantly lower than in previous years.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-729", "start": 5773.4, "end": 5790.348, "text": "The online tool wasn't the only factor, but it certainly helped in addition to having more trained 911 staff the support from 311, public education, and then a greater awareness of the total fireworks ban now that has been in place for 4 years.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-730", "start": 5791.023, "end": 5791.585, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-731", "start": 5792.693, "end": 5793.368, "text": "What's next?", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-732", "start": 5793.898, "end": 5800.371, "text": "Well, we intend to continue promoting the online tool leading up to July 4th and around New Year's Eve.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-733", "start": 5801.544, "end": 5805.351, "text": "We now have 2 years of hotspot information from these reports.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-734", "start": 5805.399, "end": 5805.495, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-735", "start": 5806.444, "end": 5813.096, "text": "This data can be provided to police and fire if resources are available that could help with enforcement efforts.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-736", "start": 5814.481, "end": 5822.036, "text": "If Chief Hughes is available online, I'd like to give him a moment to comment on enforcement from PPB's perspective.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-737", "start": 5828.21, "end": 5828.714, "text": "Thank you, everybody.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-738", "start": 5828.795, "end": 5832.001, "text": "Hi, I'm Deputy Chief Brian Hughes, for the record, Portland Police Bureau.", "speaker": "Portland Police Bureau" }, { "id": "cue-739", "start": 5832.05, "end": 5834.12, "text": "I apologize I can't be there with you today.", "speaker": "Portland Police Bureau" }, { "id": "cue-740", "start": 5834.168, "end": 5842.808, "text": "I'm off-site doing some training, but I wanted just to weigh in on some comments here regarding the fireworks and enforcement of the fireworks ban.", "speaker": "Portland Police Bureau" }, { "id": "cue-741", "start": 5843.016, "end": 5854.462, "text": "Of course, the 4th of July tends to be one of the more busy days of the year for the Police Bureau, but I want to recognize the harm done to the community with regards to fireworks.", "speaker": "Portland Police Bureau" }, { "id": "cue-742", "start": 5854.606, "end": 5861.567, "text": "As been stated, numerous fires, the fire risk, as well as just overall quality of life.", "speaker": "Portland Police Bureau" }, { "id": "cue-743", "start": 5863.401, "end": 5888.278, "text": "We we see so many illegal fireworks being lit off on that day, and what we are looking at doing is is redirecting resources, potentially canceling time off requests, or not allowing too many people to have the day off there in order to really staff up our numbers to be able to have the opportunity.", "speaker": "Portland Police Bureau" }, { "id": "cue-744", "start": 5889.49, "end": 5898.96, "text": "Chief Hughes, um, thanks, thanks for being here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-745", "start": 5898.96, "end": 5902.99, "text": "Um, this last 4th of July, was there any enforcement?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-746", "start": 5903.18, "end": 5905.53, "text": "Was anybody cited for illegal use of fireworks?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-747", "start": 5908.28, "end": 5909.52, "text": "No, not that I'm aware of.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-748", "start": 5909.52, "end": 5912.76, "text": "I am not aware of any, any happening this last 4th of July.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-749", "start": 5912.76, "end": 5916.22, "text": "I realize that people are really busy, but has there been any enforcement of the ordinance?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-750", "start": 5916.22, "end": 5916.32, "text": "Not that I'm aware of.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-751", "start": 5925.15, "end": 5930.6, "text": "No, not at this point.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-752", "start": 5930.6, "end": 5938.64, "text": "They always have the discretion, of course, to enforce any laws in the state of Oregon or the city of Portland, but no, no specific direction.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-753", "start": 5938.64, "end": 5950.569, "text": "And that would be something we would look to incorporate in I think I actually mentioned that idea to Chief Day, like, before the last 4th of July in 2025.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-754", "start": 5950.617, "end": 5957.473, "text": "I mean, I think at this point, when there's no enforcement at all and people know that, we might as well not have the law.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-755", "start": 5958.244, "end": 5972.148, "text": "So I understand that the resources are limited, but I would hope that every year we could at least point to, like, 3 or 4 instances where people were cited so that the public would know there is some chance that you'll get cited.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-756", "start": 5972.694, "end": 5980.38, "text": "And if we don't start doing that, and if I happen to be still here in a couple of years, I think I might suggest we just repeal the ban because it's pointless.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-757", "start": 5981.68, "end": 5991.774, "text": "And I have to say that I do have some personal experience with this in that my dog, like many dogs, completely freaks out when there are fireworks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-758", "start": 5991.886, "end": 5996.379, "text": "And in my neighborhood, the fireworks tend to go from 7 PM to 2 AM.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-759", "start": 5996.636, "end": 6005.321, "text": "So in order to avoid 7 hours of terror, I've been spending the 4th of July and New Year's Eve out of town.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-760", "start": 6005.658, "end": 6024.917, "text": "I realize that there's a lot more serious impacts of fireworks than a scared dog, but you multiply my experience by tens of thousands of other Portlanders, and it is— I think it— I mean, it's not as big a deal as, you know, violent crime, but I would hope that it's a big enough deal that we could at least make an effort to cite a few people a year.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-761", "start": 6028.819, "end": 6031.789, "text": "No, I think you're spot on there, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-762", "start": 6031.869, "end": 6033.106, "text": "I think it's incremental change.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-763", "start": 6033.25, "end": 6041.664, "text": "There's, of course, those that may be hearing me speak today that would say, well, there's like 1,000 people that are doing illegal fireworks all over the city.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-764", "start": 6041.76, "end": 6045.662, "text": "How are you going to, you know, select and decide who to enforce that on?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-765", "start": 6045.854, "end": 6069.039, "text": "And that's something as a police bureau we have to be very careful about because, you know, if we're talking about you know, an officer comes across somebody, you know, if they're driving in a specific neighborhood or they happen to be out there, like for example, we'll put more officers kind of in the downtown core just for, you know, density of population than we would necessarily in Sellwood.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-766", "start": 6069.622, "end": 6076.856, "text": "So you'll have more officers patrolling down that, those, some of those areas in the middle of downtown than you would in Sellwood.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-767", "start": 6076.904, "end": 6077.376, "text": "So the yeah.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-768", "start": 6078.018, "end": 6081.053, "text": "You know, they're depending on where that officer is in Sellwood.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-769", "start": 6081.31, "end": 6082.964, "text": "It's, it's, it's a challenge.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-770", "start": 6083.012, "end": 6087.765, "text": "It'll be a challenge to, to provide that kind of equitably around the city.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-771", "start": 6087.829, "end": 6093.947, "text": "And I think that might be something we would have to look at is, is, okay, who's getting a ticket, who's not getting a ticket?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-772", "start": 6094.557, "end": 6100.289, "text": "And when thousands of people are doing it, like I said, it just, we have to be careful of that.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-773", "start": 6100.353, "end": 6101.814, "text": "I think that's something I wanna flag.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-774", "start": 6103.069, "end": 6103.844, "text": "But what does that mean?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-775", "start": 6103.892, "end": 6111.289, "text": "I mean, obviously we can't— that doesn't mean that we can't do anything unless we are able to cite everybody who's using illegal fireworks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-776", "start": 6113.345, "end": 6114.505, "text": "Well, it's incremental, right?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-777", "start": 6114.714, "end": 6120.013, "text": "You know, you can't just throw your hands up in the air, I think, and just say, well, everyone's doing it, so we're going to do nothing about it.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-778", "start": 6121.026, "end": 6129.246, "text": "When you start making some changes incrementally and, you know, like you said, people understand there's some consequences for for that.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-779", "start": 6129.535, "end": 6132.555, "text": "And, you know, we would, we would have no control over the consequences, of course.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-780", "start": 6132.652, "end": 6138.226, "text": "That's, you know, we would just issue a citation and then it would be the courts to decide what the consequences would be.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-781", "start": 6138.515, "end": 6154.772, "text": "But it's that immediacy, you know, that Chief Day talks about, that when you go out to the airport, for example, and see that the airport police have a police car sitting on Airport Way near Cascade Parkway, that you slow down, right?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-782", "start": 6154.836, "end": 6159.62, "text": "Because there's potential that you could you could be issued a citation if you go over the speed limit out there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-783", "start": 6159.992, "end": 6161.514, "text": "And so I think the same applies here.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-784", "start": 6161.611, "end": 6168.56, "text": "You know, start issuing some citations where it gets around, and then we start to slowly maybe change things incrementally.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-785", "start": 6168.932, "end": 6172.287, "text": "It's, uh, it's— I think, I think it's worth trying.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-786", "start": 6174.339, "end": 6174.75, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-787", "start": 6175.982, "end": 6177.576, "text": "Any further questions or discussion?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-788", "start": 6180.683, "end": 6181.363, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-789", "start": 6181.777, "end": 6203.849, "text": "I guess I would just imagine that I think that in those catastrophic stories where we, you know, hear about a single-family residence fire, for instance, that the level of negligence goes up when in fact the firework was illegal to start with versus in the before era when it was a legal use and it still happened.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-790", "start": 6203.913, "end": 6207.812, "text": "And you can classify that as an accident, a reasonable accident, before we had a ban.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-791", "start": 6208.31, "end": 6210.38, "text": "And I think that that is a yes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-792", "start": 6210.477, "end": 6222.833, "text": "Is a deterrent for most well-meaning people as well as like the consequences when something is illegal on top of the other catastrophic stuff.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-793", "start": 6222.881, "end": 6228.103, "text": "It's not actually the ticket, it's the responsibility thereafter, which for me I think carries some weight.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-794", "start": 6228.393, "end": 6231.735, "text": "I've always thought that the ban was not very enforceable.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-795", "start": 6232.008, "end": 6236.298, "text": "If you just— any drone footage over the city of Portland on the 4th of July, Right.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-796", "start": 6236.586, "end": 6237.964, "text": "I mean, it's a wonderful show.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-797", "start": 6238.525, "end": 6240.143, "text": "It's all illegal, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-798", "start": 6240.207, "end": 6257.03, "text": "But the risk for those who do want to do the right thing, I think it has— I think you have seen a decrease over the years in neighborhoods, in particular our dense— you know, I think about it wasn't that long ago we had a fire right on Alberta, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-799", "start": 6257.094, "end": 6259.241, "text": "The north, those dense neighborhoods.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-800", "start": 6260.074, "end": 6262.125, "text": "And I think that that has improved over the years.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-801", "start": 6262.221, "end": 6304.469, "text": "But certainly valid points in terms of how do we enforce and should we I can mention just 2 other potential options that we haven't explored, one being to work regionally to see if we could align fireworks policies throughout the region, and also explore legislative options at Salem, or I'm not sure what's available out there, but there does seem to be quite a supply of illegal fireworks throughout the state that are illegal everywhere, and I don't know if there's been any effort to look at what could be done to stop that.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-802", "start": 6305.211, "end": 6307.129, "text": "But those are not things that we have explored.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-803", "start": 6309.256, "end": 6311.248, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Dan Douthit" }, { "id": "cue-804", "start": 6313.45, "end": 6325.032, "text": "Yeah, my instinct generally, as with drugs, my instinct is that reducing the demand is generally more effective than trying to constrain the supply.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-805", "start": 6325.481, "end": 6331.85, "text": "But if we're doing nothing, if the state's doing nothing to constrain the supply, that would be, that would be nice for them to at least give it a shot.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-806", "start": 6332.459, "end": 6339.261, "text": "And by the way, I don't want to gloss over the fact that it is important to not overload the system with 911 calls.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-807", "start": 6340.48, "end": 6344.282, "text": "And the fact that we've made progress in that is, you know, commendable.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-808", "start": 6344.363, "end": 6345.871, "text": "So I appreciate that update.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-809", "start": 6345.919, "end": 6346.031, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-810", "start": 6351.563, "end": 6356.646, "text": "I would just be cautious of going too far down a legislative path here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-811", "start": 6357.416, "end": 6365.449, "text": "When your, when your neighbor jurisdiction has a whole different classification of fireworks, the term fruitless effort kind of comes to mind.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-812", "start": 6366.171, "end": 6377.264, "text": "So as long as Washington State is selling a whole brand of fireworks that are wholesale illegal in Oregon, it's a matter of it's going to happen, and it's like trying to stop water.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-813", "start": 6377.681, "end": 6387.791, "text": "Um, so, you know, with respect to, you know, what is legal in Oregon, because most of the stuff we talk about that has caused problems in Portland, frankly, is not even what's legal in Portland in the before era.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-814", "start": 6388.047, "end": 6391.06, "text": "It's stuff that's coming across the, the state border.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-815", "start": 6391.46, "end": 6397.052, "text": "Um, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to push too hard in some sort of grand plan to achieve nothing.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-816", "start": 6397.244, "end": 6399.872, "text": "That's kind of how I would think that legislative intent would be.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-817", "start": 6400.353, "end": 6410.64, "text": "I also, you know, this is one of those where I want to be really respectful of the rest of the state and that the way our community is built up is different.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-818", "start": 6411.507, "end": 6422.008, "text": "And I don't want this presentation to be taken as any sort of advocacy, at least from my chair anyway, for a larger statewide ban, because I actually think it will have no impact on Portland.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-819", "start": 6422.826, "end": 6436.025, "text": "But it also would be another kind of Portland reach into other parts of the state and those communities who are still, they're very much, you know, they still have shows and they still put on, they still have fireworks and it's part of the community and it's not something to be afraid of.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-820", "start": 6436.105, "end": 6437.341, "text": "It's not something to walk away from.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-821", "start": 6437.438, "end": 6439.22, "text": "It's, they're good events.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-822", "start": 6439.782, "end": 6444.583, "text": "It just, our city is differently built and dense and we've made a choice years ago.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-823", "start": 6445.948, "end": 6453.318, "text": "So I just think about that in terms of what our neighbors are and the likelihood of stopping stuff coming through is, that's probably not worth the squeeze.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-824", "start": 6453.494, "end": 6453.735, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-825", "start": 6454.67, "end": 6456.499, "text": "I instinctively tend to agree with that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-826", "start": 6456.693, "end": 6463.603, "text": "I think the focus should be on seeing if we can enforce our own laws rather than trying to figure out if there's anything we can do regionally.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-827", "start": 6464.102, "end": 6469.159, "text": "But that might be not an entirely informed opinion.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-828", "start": 6470.625, "end": 6472.622, "text": "Can we end it with, again, a reminder?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-829", "start": 6472.96, "end": 6473.685, "text": "Tap, tap, tap.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-830", "start": 6474.023, "end": 6478.708, "text": "Please limit who you call if you see illegal fireworks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-831", "start": 6478.837, "end": 6481.735, "text": "It's not a moment for a 911 call.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-832", "start": 6482.252, "end": 6482.573, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-833", "start": 6482.637, "end": 6494.367, "text": "Yes, it's not a moment for a 911 call, but, um, it's still something that— I mean, uh, sometimes you can just ask your neighbors to stop and point out that it's illegal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-834", "start": 6494.415, "end": 6498.437, "text": "I've actually done that with teenage kids in my neighborhood, and they were polite about it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-835", "start": 6498.838, "end": 6501.803, "text": "Do you tell them to get off your lawn too?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-836", "start": 6502.027, "end": 6502.251, "text": "What?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-837", "start": 6502.748, "end": 6506.129, "text": "Hey, I just told them my dog's really scared, and they're like, oh, okay, we'll stop.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-838", "start": 6506.354, "end": 6507.379, "text": "So sometimes that works.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-839", "start": 6508.916, "end": 6509.773, "text": "Thank you very much.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-840", "start": 6510.274, "end": 6519.561, "text": "And seeing no one else in the queue, um, we can give people back, uh, 1 hour and 19 minutes, and this meeting of the Community and Public Safety Committee is adjourned.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-841", "start": 6521.14, "end": 6521.3, "text": "Adjourned.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" } ] }