{ "meetingId": "2026-09-16-fgc-1", "title": "Portland City Council Finance & Governance Committee (Whole) 09/16/26", "date": "2026-09-16T14:00:00-07:00", "duration": 189, "videoUrl": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSdgiRJAuY4", "videoId": "BSdgiRJAuY4", "agendaUrl": "https://www.portland.gov/council/agenda/committee-whole/2026/9/16", "agendaItems": [ { "number": 1, "title": "Committee Chair updates", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-324" }, { "number": 2, "title": "Fire and Police Disability and Retirement financing discussion", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-330" }, { "number": 3, "title": "Fire and Police Disability and Retirement financing public input", "type": "Public hearing", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/public-hearing/placed-file/2026-331" }, { "number": 4, "title": "Amend Regulation of Payday Lending Code to update program fees (amend Code Section 7.26.030)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/amend-payday-lending-program-fees" }, { "number": 5, "title": "Amend Pay and Park and Non-Pay Private Parking Facilities Code to strengthen compliance and public notice requirements and update program fees (amend Code Chapter 7.25)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/amend-portland-city-code-chapter-725-pay-and-park-and-non-pay-private" }, { "number": 6, "title": "Amend Secondhand Dealers Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees (amend Code Chapter 14B.90)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/amend-secondhand-dealers-program-requirements-and-fees" }, { "number": 7, "title": "Amend Social Games Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees (amend Code Sections 14A.70.060 and 14A.70.070)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/amend-social-games-program-requirements-and-fees" }, { "number": 8, "title": "Repeal Amusement Devices, Games and Machines Code (repeal Code Chapter 14B.110)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/repeal-amusement-devices-program" } ], "summary": "**The Finance and Governance Committee took no vote on how Portland finances its police and fire pensions, placing a discussion of the $3.6 billion legacy plan on file after staff said the city's best option is to stay its current course.**\n\nCouncilor Sameer Kanal (District 2), who chaired the committee in place of Council President Jamie Dunphy (District 1), opened the pension discussion by confining it to financing. \"I'll call to order any councilor who veers outside the scope of the financing discussion today,\" he said ([00:18:36](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@00:18:36)), adding that benefits are protected by the voter-approved charter and legally cannot be changed.\n\n## How the police and fire pension is paid for\n\nFranco Lucin of the City Attorney's Office walked through Chapter 5 of the charter, which funds the Fire and Police Disability and Retirement plan through a dedicated property tax levy and created a new tier, FPDR 3, under a 2006 ballot measure that moved officers hired after January 1, 2007 into the state Public Employees Retirement System.\n\nChief Financial Officer Jonas Beery and FPDR Deputy Director Stacy Jones described the legacy plan as pay-as-you-go, meaning current property taxes pay current retirees. Jones said the plan closed at the end of 2006, that a little over four-fifths of legacy members are retired, and that full closeout will likely come in the 2070s. She put the **total plan liability at $3.6 billion as of June 30** ([00:44:56](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@00:44:56)), but said that in cash-flow terms \"there is no funding gap.\" Jones said current taxpayers bear a double burden — funding legacy retirees while prefunding current officers' PERS pensions — and compared it to \"paying for your kids' college tuition while you're paying off your student loans\" ([00:47:19](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@00:47:19)). She said the assessed-value rate taxpayers see in 2026-27 is about **$3.19 per $1,000** ([00:49:31](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@00:49:31)), and that the real-market-value levy is projected to peak around $1.75 in about five years.\n\nBeery laid out four options: a cash reserve (unviable), a one-time levy increase (highly disruptive), a gradual levy increase within the charter limit, and pension obligation bonds, which the Government Finance Officers Association advises against. Absent \"a low-risk windfall resource,\" he said, the viable strategy \"is to stay the current course\" ([00:53:00](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@00:53:00)).\n\nDavid Drain, Principal Officer for the State Fiscal Policy Project at the Pew Charitable Trusts, recommended forward-looking analysis and cited Indiana's teacher retirement system, which seeded a $425 million stabilization fund to begin prefunding. He noted the actuarial firm Milliman found the levy exceeds its cap in less than 2% of scenarios.\n\nCouncilor Mitch Green (District 4), who serves on the work group with Kanal, said any prefunding money \"would need to be a tax or a fee\" and would need to be referred to voters ([01:51:34](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@01:51:34)). He warned the FPDR share of a property tax bill could grow from about a third to 40% over a decade, reaching roughly $240 million a year at peak. Councilor Elana Pirtle-Guiney (District 2) separated two questions — whether to prefund at all, and who pays — and asked when a prefunding \"breakpoint\" passes. Kanal cited written testimony estimating $200 million upfront could save $2 billion. Beery asked the council for direction on where any prefunding money would come from.\n\nThree people testified. Kevin Matches, a CFA charterholder, said he would not support any of the four staff options as written and said \"the pension plan run by the City of Portland is at 0% right now\" ([01:29:52](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@01:29:52)). Justin Holt, a District 3 resident who worked on New York City pension policy, backed Matches's proposal. Dan Krollowitz asked whether there is a best time to prefund. When Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) raised a \"Logan's Run-style mandatory death date idea\" ([01:10:56](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@01:10:56)), Jones replied, \"Councilor Novick, you would enjoy the morbid humor that exists at a pension plan office\" ([01:11:12](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@01:11:12)).\n\n## Revenue Division fee updates continued to next week\n\nNovick brought five ordinances updating fees on payday lenders, private parking lots, secondhand dealers and social games, plus a repeal of the permit requirement for pool tables and pinball machines, which he called a \"silly\" holdover. Tim Mercer, the Revenue Division's Tax Division Manager, and Danny Dacelle, its Business Income Tax Section Manager, said the programs run on one full-time employee and that current fees do not cover costs. Green confirmed the package would roughly halve a **$40,500 annual revenue loss** ([01:31:42](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@02:31:42)).\n\nThe council approved one amendment to the secondhand dealers ordinance, changing \"all employees\" to employees operating in Portland, **10-0 with Councilors Angelita Morillo and Loretta Smith absent** ([03:08:05](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@03:08:05)). Matthew Forgue, Director of Regulatory Affairs at EcoATM, testified that even the amended language would still require background checks for all employees when a business opens a second location. Kanal objected to requiring workers to submit information to police and pay a background check fee \"for the privilege\" of a job ([03:00:01](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@03:00:01)).\n\nCaleb Schlesinger, one of 11 parking operators, said the parking program offers an alternative to towing and that new signage and photography requirements burden operators, while the $44 penalty fee has been unchanged since 2011. Dunphy asked about setting standards for surface lots — citing violence at a lot near Dante's at Burnside and Third — and about variable fees based on land value. Councilor Eric Zimmerman (District 4) questioned whether the increases were cost recovery or \"a revenue grab\" ([03:02:52](meeting:2026-09-16-fgc-1@03:02:52)). Councilor Dan Ryan (District 2) said the payday, social games and amusement items looked easy to move but the parking and secondhand items deserved more time. All five items were continued to the next committee meeting.\n\n## Public communications\n\nThe meeting's only open testimony came within agenda items and is reported above.\n\n## What's next\n\nThe five Revenue Division ordinances (2026-325 through 2026-329) were continued to the committee's next meeting on September 24, with the secondhand dealers item carrying the approved amendment. The FPDR financing discussion was placed on file with no action planned; Kanal said he hopes to have a Central City Task Force or Metro Chamber representative present next time. Kanal said the committee plans a Future of Downtown conversation in November and a tentative oversight hearing on Urban Alchemy on November 5. Clark said Public Works will develop a regulatory framework for autonomous vehicles and hear the asset management strategy plan in October.", "summaryText": "The Finance and Governance Committee took no vote on how Portland finances its police and fire pensions, placing a discussion of the $3.6 billion legacy plan on file after staff said the city's best option is to stay its current course.\n\nCouncilor Sameer Kanal (District 2), who chaired the committee in place of Council President Jamie Dunphy (District 1), opened the pension discussion by confining it to financing. \"I'll call to order any councilor who veers outside the scope of the financing discussion today,\" he said (00:18:36), adding that benefits are protected by the voter-approved charter and legally cannot be changed.\n\nFranco Lucin of the City Attorney's Office walked through Chapter 5 of the charter, which funds the Fire and Police Disability and Retirement plan through a dedicated property tax levy and created a new tier, FPDR 3, under a 2006 ballot measure that moved officers hired after January 1, 2007 into the state Public Employees Retirement System.\n\nChief Financial Officer Jonas Beery and FPDR Deputy Director Stacy Jones described the legacy plan as pay-as-you-go, meaning current property taxes pay current retirees. Jones said the plan closed at the end of 2006, that a little over four-fifths of legacy members are retired, and that full closeout will likely come in the 2070s. She put the total plan liability at $3.6 billion as of June 30 (00:44:56), but said that in cash-flow terms \"there is no funding gap.\" Jones said current taxpayers bear a double burden — funding legacy retirees while prefunding current officers' PERS pensions — and compared it to \"paying for your kids' college tuition while you're paying off your student loans\" (00:47:19). She said the assessed-value rate taxpayers see in 2026-27 is about $3.19 per $1,000 (00:49:31), and that the real-market-value levy is projected to peak around $1.75 in about five years.\n\nBeery laid out four options: a cash reserve (unviable), a one-time levy increase (highly disruptive), a gradual levy increase within the charter limit, and pension obligation bonds, which the Government Finance Officers Association advises against. Absent \"a low-risk windfall resource,\" he said, the viable strategy \"is to stay the current course\" (00:53:00).\n\nDavid Drain, Principal Officer for the State Fiscal Policy Project at the Pew Charitable Trusts, recommended forward-looking analysis and cited Indiana's teacher retirement system, which seeded a $425 million stabilization fund to begin prefunding. He noted the actuarial firm Milliman found the levy exceeds its cap in less than 2% of scenarios.\n\nCouncilor Mitch Green (District 4), who serves on the work group with Kanal, said any prefunding money \"would need to be a tax or a fee\" and would need to be referred to voters (01:51:34). He warned the FPDR share of a property tax bill could grow from about a third to 40% over a decade, reaching roughly $240 million a year at peak. Councilor Elana Pirtle-Guiney (District 2) separated two questions — whether to prefund at all, and who pays — and asked when a prefunding \"breakpoint\" passes. Kanal cited written testimony estimating $200 million upfront could save $2 billion. Beery asked the council for direction on where any prefunding money would come from.\n\nThree people testified. Kevin Matches, a CFA charterholder, said he would not support any of the four staff options as written and said \"the pension plan run by the City of Portland is at 0% right now\" (01:29:52). Justin Holt, a District 3 resident who worked on New York City pension policy, backed Matches's proposal. Dan Krollowitz asked whether there is a best time to prefund. When Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) raised a \"Logan's Run-style mandatory death date idea\" (01:10:56), Jones replied, \"Councilor Novick, you would enjoy the morbid humor that exists at a pension plan office\" (01:11:12).\n\nNovick brought five ordinances updating fees on payday lenders, private parking lots, secondhand dealers and social games, plus a repeal of the permit requirement for pool tables and pinball machines, which he called a \"silly\" holdover. Tim Mercer, the Revenue Division's Tax Division Manager, and Danny Dacelle, its Business Income Tax Section Manager, said the programs run on one full-time employee and that current fees do not cover costs. Green confirmed the package would roughly halve a $40,500 annual revenue loss (01:31:42).\n\nThe council approved one amendment to the secondhand dealers ordinance, changing \"all employees\" to employees operating in Portland, 10-0 with Councilors Angelita Morillo and Loretta Smith absent (03:08:05). Matthew Forgue, Director of Regulatory Affairs at EcoATM, testified that even the amended language would still require background checks for all employees when a business opens a second location. Kanal objected to requiring workers to submit information to police and pay a background check fee \"for the privilege\" of a job (03:00:01).\n\nCaleb Schlesinger, one of 11 parking operators, said the parking program offers an alternative to towing and that new signage and photography requirements burden operators, while the $44 penalty fee has been unchanged since 2011. Dunphy asked about setting standards for surface lots — citing violence at a lot near Dante's at Burnside and Third — and about variable fees based on land value. Councilor Eric Zimmerman (District 4) questioned whether the increases were cost recovery or \"a revenue grab\" (03:02:52). Councilor Dan Ryan (District 2) said the payday, social games and amusement items looked easy to move but the parking and secondhand items deserved more time. All five items were continued to the next committee meeting.\n\nThe meeting's only open testimony came within agenda items and is reported above.\n\nThe five Revenue Division ordinances (2026-325 through 2026-329) were continued to the committee's next meeting on September 24, with the secondhand dealers item carrying the approved amendment. The FPDR financing discussion was placed on file with no action planned; Kanal said he hopes to have a Central City Task Force or Metro Chamber representative present next time. Kanal said the committee plans a Future of Downtown conversation in November and a tentative oversight hearing on Urban Alchemy on November 5. Clark said Public Works will develop a regulatory framework for autonomous vehicles and hear the asset management strategy plan in October.", "summaryLede": "The Finance and Governance Committee took no vote on how Portland finances its police and fire pensions, placing a discussion of the $3.6 billion legacy plan on file after staff said the city's best option is to stay its current course.", "sections": [ { "title": "Committee Business", "startTime": "00:07:36.240", "endTime": "00:12:40.330", "items": [ { "title": "Opening Remarks", "startTime": "00:07:36.240", "endTime": "00:12:40.330" } ] }, { "title": "Regular Agenda", "startTime": "00:12:40.330", "endTime": "03:08:05.578", "items": [ { "title": "Committee Chair updates (Presentation)", "startTime": "00:12:40.330", "endTime": "00:17:16.287", "agendaItemNumber": 1 }, { "title": "Fire and Police Disability and Retirement financing discussion (Presentation)", "startTime": "00:17:16.287", "endTime": "02:11:19.699", "agendaItemNumber": 2 }, { "title": "Fire and Police Disability and Retirement financing public input (Public hearing)", "startTime": "00:17:16.287", "endTime": "02:11:19.699", "agendaItemNumber": 3 }, { "title": "Amend Regulation of Payday Lending Code to update program fees (amend Code Section 7.26.030) (Ordinance)", "startTime": "02:11:19.699", "endTime": "03:08:05.578", "agendaItemNumber": 4 }, { "title": "Amend Pay and Park and Non-Pay Private Parking Facilities Code to strengthen compliance and public notice requirements and update program fees (amend Code Chapter 7.25) (Ordinance)", "startTime": "02:11:19.699", "endTime": "03:08:05.578", "agendaItemNumber": 5 }, { "title": "Amend Secondhand Dealers Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees (amend Code Chapter 14B.90) (Ordinance)", "startTime": "02:11:19.699", "endTime": "03:08:05.578", "agendaItemNumber": 6 }, { "title": "Amend Social Games Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees (amend Code Sections 14A.70.060 and 14A.70.070) (Ordinance)", "startTime": "02:11:19.699", "endTime": "03:08:05.578", "agendaItemNumber": 7 }, { "title": "Repeal Amusement Devices, Games and Machines Code (repeal Code Chapter 14B.110) (Ordinance)", "startTime": "02:11:19.699", "endTime": "03:08:05.578", "agendaItemNumber": 8 } ] } ], "cues": [ { "id": "cue-1", "start": 456.24, "end": 457.661, "text": "Good afternoon, everyone.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-2", "start": 457.742, "end": 462.313, "text": "I'm going to call this meeting of the Committee of the Whole of the Portland City Council to order.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-3", "start": 462.797, "end": 465.656, "text": "It is Wednesday, September 16th, at 2:03 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-4", "start": 468.17, "end": 469.493, "text": "Um, Rebecca, will you please call the roll?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-5", "start": 471.99, "end": 472.314, "text": "Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-6", "start": 473.466, "end": 473.58, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-7", "start": 474.683, "end": 475.089, "text": "Morillo?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-8", "start": 475.998, "end": 476.111, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-9", "start": 476.89, "end": 477.442, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-10", "start": 477.685, "end": 477.815, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-11", "start": 479.323, "end": 479.727, "text": "Clark?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-12", "start": 480.535, "end": 480.649, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-13", "start": 481.65, "end": 481.958, "text": "Green?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-14", "start": 482.216, "end": 482.426, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-15", "start": 483.056, "end": 483.493, "text": "Zimmerman?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-16", "start": 483.816, "end": 484.026, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-17", "start": 484.721, "end": 485.109, "text": "Avalos?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-18", "start": 486.434, "end": 486.919, "text": "Dunphy?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-19", "start": 487.21, "end": 487.419, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-20", "start": 487.952, "end": 488.065, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-21", "start": 489.97, "end": 490.357, "text": "Smith?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-22", "start": 495.91, "end": 496.459, "text": "Pirtle-Guiney?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-23", "start": 496.459, "end": 498.22, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-24", "start": 498.22, "end": 499.02, "text": "Ryan?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-25", "start": 499.02, "end": 501.42, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-26", "start": 501.42, "end": 502.26, "text": "Uh, Councilor Avalos?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-27", "start": 502.26, "end": 502.5, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-28", "start": 502.5, "end": 504.36, "text": "President and Kanal?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-29", "start": 504.36, "end": 505.78, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-30", "start": 505.78, "end": 507.8, "text": "Christopher, will you please read the statement of conduct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-31", "start": 509.48, "end": 512.16, "text": "Welcome to the meeting of the Finance and Governance Committee of the Whole.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-32", "start": 512.16, "end": 522.38, "text": "To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at www.portland.gov/council/agenda/committee-whole or by calling 311.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-33", "start": 522.38, "end": 525.181, "text": "Information on engaging with the committee can can be found at this link.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-34", "start": 525.598, "end": 528.419, "text": "Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-35", "start": 528.499, "end": 531.289, "text": "In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-36", "start": 531.689, "end": 533.341, "text": "Public testimony will be taken on an item.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-37", "start": 534.014, "end": 536.883, "text": "Individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the Chair states otherwise.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-38", "start": 537.236, "end": 538.967, "text": "Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-39", "start": 539.656, "end": 540.538, "text": "The Chair preserves order.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-40", "start": 540.602, "end": 547.704, "text": "Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-41", "start": 548.072, "end": 549.723, "text": "If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-42", "start": 549.803, "end": 551.839, "text": "Further disruption results in ejection from the meeting.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-43", "start": 552.224, "end": 554.981, "text": "Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-44", "start": 555.43, "end": 560.146, "text": "Additionally, the committee may take action your testimony should address the matter being considered.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-45", "start": 560.194, "end": 561.917, "text": "When testifying, state your name for the record.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-46", "start": 562.239, "end": 564.412, "text": "If you're a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-47", "start": 564.557, "end": 567.166, "text": "Virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-48", "start": 567.376, "end": 567.683, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-49", "start": 571.014, "end": 572.001, "text": "Thank you, Christopher.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-50", "start": 572.55, "end": 575.865, "text": "All right, we're going to get into, uh, everything in just a moment.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-51", "start": 575.93, "end": 580.343, "text": "I just wanted to give a, a quick announcement, um, regarding the CEI Hub item.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-52", "start": 580.57, "end": 588.1, "text": "So on September 1st, 2026, the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability sent legislative notice via email announcing that the recommended draft yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-53", "start": 588.1, "end": 588.1, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-54", "start": 588.1, "end": 588.18, "text": "Motion passes.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-55", "start": 588.18, "end": 588.44, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-56", "start": 588.44, "end": 602.36, "text": "Consideration of the draft of the Critical Energy Infrastructure Hub policy project, including comprehensive plan policy and Title 33 regulatory amendments, was scheduled for the City Council Committee of the Whole meeting today, September 16th, 2026, at 2 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-57", "start": 602.36, "end": 617.278, "text": "Consideration of the ordinance for the recommended draft of the CEI Hub policy project has been referred to the full City Council by request of 4 city councilors without objection and has been continued to a City Council work session on Thursday, Thursday, September 17th, 2026.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-58", "start": 617.327, "end": 618.785, "text": "That's tomorrow at 2:00 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-59", "start": 619.571, "end": 625.502, "text": "The work session on September 17th will include a presentation by city staff and a council question and answer session with staff.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-60", "start": 625.903, "end": 635.088, "text": "Additionally, council has requested brief informational presentations from the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality and a balanced panel of representatives from engaged environmental and industry organizations.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-61", "start": 635.681, "end": 639.849, "text": "Council will not take other public testimony, vote, or take any action at the work session.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-62", "start": 640.65, "end": 648.507, "text": "A public hearing to take oral testimony for the ordinance— I think it's ordinances actually— is scheduled for Thursday, September 24th at 2 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-63", "start": 649.63, "end": 652.904, "text": "Consideration of the ordinance for the bulk— I think I'm going to say the same thing here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-64", "start": 653.08, "end": 668.244, "text": "Consideration of the ordinance for the bulk fuel terminal capacity reduction requirements, amendments to Title 17, has been referred to the full City Council by request of 4 councilors without objection and is being continued to a City Council work session on Thursday, September 17th, 2026 at 2 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-65", "start": 668.805, "end": 674.245, "text": "The work session on September 17th will include a presentation by city staff and a council question and answer session with staff.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-66", "start": 674.678, "end": 682.917, "text": "Additionally, council has requested brief informational presentations from the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality and a balanced panel of representatives from engaged environmental and industry organizations.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-67", "start": 683.237, "end": 687.052, "text": "Council will not take other public testimony, vote, or take any action at the work session.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-68", "start": 687.485, "end": 692.582, "text": "A public hearing to take oral testimony for that ordinance is scheduled for Thursday, September 24th at 2:00 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-69", "start": 693.255, "end": 701.157, "text": "The testimony period for both of these items is open, and testimony can be submitted in writing or orally at the public hearing, both in person and virtually.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-70", "start": 701.654, "end": 705.704, "text": "You can register Uh, to testify orally, either online or by calling 311.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-71", "start": 706.108, "end": 713.154, "text": "The agenda and a link to the oral testimony registration will be available Friday, September 18th at portland.gov/auditor/council-clerk/events.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-72", "start": 719.4, "end": 722.919, "text": "All right, uh, thank you to the city attorneys for that information.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-73", "start": 724.152, "end": 728.942, "text": "And with that, we're gonna— about to get into the, um, uh, the items today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-74", "start": 729.023, "end": 753.934, "text": "Just to, to be transparent, we're intending to get through the committee chair updates as well as our 2 items together on fire and police disability and retirement financing, then take a break and then come back and open items 4 through 8 together, which are items, uh, regulatory program update, uh, changes from Councilor Novick, um, after the break and get as far as we can into those today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-75", "start": 754.559, "end": 758.645, "text": "Um, and so with that, I'll ask if we can call agenda item 1, please.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-76", "start": 758.693, "end": 758.805, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-77", "start": 760.33, "end": 764.374, "text": "Item 1, Committee Chair Updates, document number 2026-324.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-78", "start": 765.305, "end": 770.954, "text": "All right, so I'm not going to read through everything on here, but, um, I passed out the item.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-79", "start": 771.018, "end": 774.019, "text": "It is also attached to the legislative item online.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-80", "start": 774.372, "end": 785.189, "text": "Um, I did want to flag that, uh, there have been a couple things that have moved around a little bit, but the one that I wanted to highlight is we are still planning to do the Future of Downtown, uh, conversation in November.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-81", "start": 786.105, "end": 794.717, "text": "And we've started, and I appreciate the administration helping us to chunk together the appointment items for our Wednesday meetings of this committee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-82", "start": 794.765, "end": 798.284, "text": "For those who don't know, we meet, you know, Wednesday right before the evening council meeting.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-83", "start": 798.879, "end": 802.59, "text": "That's once a month, and trying to do appointments at that meeting has been really helpful.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-84", "start": 802.976, "end": 811.395, "text": "The other item I wanted to flag, and I think I mentioned this last week, is we're currently planning— it's tentative yet— an oversight hearing on Urban Alchemy on November 5th.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-85", "start": 813.463, "end": 814.38, "text": "Everything else is in here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-86", "start": 814.975, "end": 816.052, "text": "Feel free to read that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-87", "start": 816.262, "end": 823.948, "text": "I've also updated part 2 and part 3 of the report, and I just wanted to be more transparent adding in the other work groups that have been there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-88", "start": 825.025, "end": 834.321, "text": "But I don't really have a whole lot today that's, that's different from last time, so I'm just going to stop talking and see if there are any questions before I pass it over to Councilor Clark to give an update on the Public Works Committee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-89", "start": 836.38, "end": 838.424, "text": "Seeing no one in the queue, Councilor Clark, please give us an update.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-90", "start": 838.491, "end": 838.973, "text": "Thank you, Council President.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-91", "start": 840.01, "end": 842.299, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Chairman and colleagues.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-92", "start": 842.363, "end": 843.765, "text": "I apologize I'm not there.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-93", "start": 844.926, "end": 848.407, "text": "I am treating a tooth with an antibiotic.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-94", "start": 848.504, "end": 854.071, "text": "I'll explain all the details later if you want to know them, but I'll be there for the council meeting hopefully tonight.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-95", "start": 855.294, "end": 870.321, "text": "The Public Works Committee at our last meeting had a great overview of the potential for encouraging more community-based partnerships for we're calling it Portland Public Spaces Partnerships.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-96", "start": 870.947, "end": 883.347, "text": "We had a great panel conversation with people from the Portland Arboretum, the Community Music Center, the Interstate Firehouse Cultural Center, and the Parks Foundation.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-97", "start": 883.636, "end": 884.792, "text": "And it was a great conversation.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-98", "start": 884.841, "end": 895.409, "text": "I think it hopefully will result in potentially a resolution coming to you, but it's definitely about the culture change that's going on within the Parks Bureau, which we all really appreciate.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-99", "start": 896.869, "end": 909.986, "text": "Next week, the Public Works Committee is going to be taking care of some housekeeping items from PBOT on property rights acquisitions and the Montgomery Park Streetcar Extension CMGC approval.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-100", "start": 910.516, "end": 919.047, "text": "But we're also going to hear an update on the implementation of the transportation utility fee and the street damage restoration fee.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-101", "start": 919.72, "end": 932.132, "text": "And that update is going to be focused on things that we're very concerned about, the non-residential methodology, And the financial assistance options that will be available for people under the TUF.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-102", "start": 933.83, "end": 953.405, "text": "Then in October, drum roll, we're going to hear the long-awaited asset management strategy plan, and hopefully, hopefully we're going to get to meet the city's new Chief Asset Management Officer who will be in CA Lee's office.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-103", "start": 954.196, "end": 955.382, "text": "We're looking forward to that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-104", "start": 956.279, "end": 969.64, "text": "But the big lift, the really big lift for Public Works in the upcoming months is going to be working to develop a regulatory framework for automated or autonomous vehicles.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-105", "start": 970.938, "end": 974.831, "text": "You know, the technology we all know is coming and we need to get in front of it.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-106", "start": 975.6, "end": 984.219, "text": "I'm very concerned, and I know many of you have heard from me about this, concerned about what's going to happen in the next state legislative session when it comes to autonomous vehicles.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-107", "start": 985.052, "end": 992.423, "text": "So we need to lead by example on this work and make a case against preemption on the part of the legislature.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-108", "start": 993.625, "end": 995.227, "text": "So stay tuned for that.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-109", "start": 995.372, "end": 1000.082, "text": "I know we're all very, very interested in the future of autonomous vehicles in Portland.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-110", "start": 1001.076, "end": 1011.187, "text": "We're also planning to have a briefing around utility rate setting, which addresses the budget note from Councilor Koyama Lane, hopefully in late October or at least this fall.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-111", "start": 1011.315, "end": 1011.491, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-112", "start": 1013.035, "end": 1016.036, "text": "So with that, uh, Chairman Kanal, that's my report.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-113", "start": 1017.863, "end": 1018.955, "text": "Thank you, Chair Clark.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-114", "start": 1019.167, "end": 1022.426, "text": "Um, any— anyone have any questions for Chair Clark?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-115", "start": 1025.515, "end": 1027.989, "text": "All right, uh, Councilor Novick's on deck for next week.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-116", "start": 1028.246, "end": 1031.62, "text": "I've been bad at giving people the reminder, so I want to start doing that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-117", "start": 1032.167, "end": 1034.127, "text": "And, um, thank you so much.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-118", "start": 1034.191, "end": 1035.718, "text": "And that concludes the chair's update.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-119", "start": 1036.287, "end": 1039.278, "text": "Um, Rebecca, will you please call agenda items 2 and 3 together?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-120", "start": 1041.73, "end": 1048.478, "text": "Item 2, Fire and Police Disability and Retirement Finance Discussion, document number 2026-330.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-121", "start": 1049.121, "end": 1055.917, "text": "Item 3, Fire and Police Disability and Retirement Financing Public Input, document number 2026-331.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-122", "start": 1057.25, "end": 1058.696, "text": "All right, thank you, colleagues.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-123", "start": 1058.76, "end": 1065.974, "text": "Today we'll be discussing how we finance and pay for police and fire disability and retirement and whether any alternative financing options might be viable.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-124", "start": 1066.697, "end": 1070.352, "text": "We'll first hear from the City Attorney's Office about the charter governing FPDR.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-125", "start": 1070.961, "end": 1076.988, "text": "Then we'll hear from our Chief Financial Officer and the FPDR Deputy Director to learn how the program is currently financed.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-126", "start": 1077.533, "end": 1086.783, "text": "Finally, we have a special guest from the Pew Charitable Trust State Fiscal Policy Project who'll be joining us online, sharing their research and recommendations around public pension funding practices.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-127", "start": 1086.831, "end": 1091.159, "text": "And I want to thank Principal Officer David Drain for being willing to join us today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-128", "start": 1092.265, "end": 1100.19, "text": "It's important for this council to understand how we pay for the public safety pensions and discuss the options available to us in line with the city's core value of fiscal responsibility.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-129", "start": 1100.785, "end": 1111.023, "text": "However, I also want to note that some of our public safety partners have expressed concerns to me that this conversation, which is strictly confined to how we finance FPDR, will veer off track.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-130", "start": 1111.072, "end": 1113.109, "text": "And so I want to take this opportunity to clarify.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-131", "start": 1115.026, "end": 1119.833, "text": "We're not here today to discuss any changes to FPDR benefits or the funding provided to FPDR.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-132", "start": 1120.836, "end": 1126.711, "text": "The city's City Attorney's Office is going to explain to us in part that we legally cannot change any of these things.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-133", "start": 1126.824, "end": 1130.946, "text": "And as committee chair, I want to be clear as to what's within the scope of this conversation and what's not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-134", "start": 1131.955, "end": 1136.363, "text": "So I'll call to order any councilor who veers outside the scope of the financing discussion today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-135", "start": 1137.726, "end": 1142.246, "text": "And I want to also say, as a councilor, obviously people can talk about those issues elsewhere if they so choose.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-136", "start": 1142.31, "end": 1144.025, "text": "It's a, you know, free council, free country.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-137", "start": 1144.137, "end": 1150.998, "text": "But I want to be clear as a councilor that I'm fully supportive of maintaining robust disability and retirement benefits for our city's first responders.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-138", "start": 1151.591, "end": 1157.313, "text": "First and foremost, I support the will of the voters and will always defend the city charter, which includes voter-approved text around FPDR.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-139", "start": 1158.004, "end": 1163.752, "text": "And additionally, it's just a moral issue that the first responders who have served the city deserve their pensions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-140", "start": 1164.266, "end": 1186.261, "text": "I've been thinking about this in light of the fact that last Friday was the 25th anniversary of 9/11, and I was at the fire memorial ceremony that was held by Station 1, and we remembered the sacrifice made by first responders across the country, but in particular in New York and D.C. Those who served in this way have earned their disability and retirement benefits.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-141", "start": 1186.422, "end": 1196.532, "text": "And while I will continue to talk about transparency, accountability, and fiscal responsibility, speaking as a councilor, I want to be clear that I'll be fighting for the benefits our workers have been promised, that they have earned, and that they deserve.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-142", "start": 1197.88, "end": 1203.834, "text": "As part of helping frame this conversation, I'm going to hand it over to Councilor Green, and then we'll invite up our guests.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-143", "start": 1203.995, "end": 1204.316, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-144", "start": 1205.584, "end": 1207.156, "text": "Thank you so much, Chair Kanal.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-145", "start": 1207.766, "end": 1209.916, "text": "I don't have much to add beyond just I'll start.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-146", "start": 1210.012, "end": 1215.143, "text": "I'll start by just saying, really appreciate the level setting that this is not about benefits.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-147", "start": 1215.448, "end": 1217.596, "text": "This is not about breaking any promises.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-148", "start": 1217.804, "end": 1220.482, "text": "It's not about any of that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-149", "start": 1220.594, "end": 1231.705, "text": "This is about just kind of looking at the long-run actuarial forecast and having an honest conversation about the intergenerational equity on who bears the cost of this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-150", "start": 1232.603, "end": 1234.495, "text": "And we've gone down this road before.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-151", "start": 1235.329, "end": 1238.599, "text": "Some of you in the audience have been down this road before, and these are tough conversations.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-152", "start": 1240.317, "end": 1258.968, "text": "But I think we owe it to taxpayers, both present and future, to really make the best effort we can to really exhaust all of the options available to us and be honest about what the lifecycle cost of our current approach is.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-153", "start": 1259.032, "end": 1261.705, "text": "And if there's a way to save taxpayers money, we should try it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-154", "start": 1261.754, "end": 1262.655, "text": "We should always try to do that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-155", "start": 1262.816, "end": 1264.459, "text": "So really appreciate this conversation.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-156", "start": 1264.57, "end": 1268.011, "text": "It's not easy, um, and, uh, let's get into it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-157", "start": 1268.301, "end": 1268.495, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-158", "start": 1268.738, "end": 1270.159, "text": "All right, thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-159", "start": 1270.256, "end": 1273.778, "text": "To start us off, I'm going to invite up from the City Attorney's Office Franco Lucin.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-160", "start": 1275.294, "end": 1282.862, "text": "I think we're going to do this sequentially, but if you'd like to also, uh, at any point, if you want to have, um, the next presenter up too, let me know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-161", "start": 1282.959, "end": 1294.159, "text": "Okay, uh, good afternoon, Council, Committee of the Whole, uh, President Dunphy, and I— there's you seem to be the chair today, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-162", "start": 1294.223, "end": 1294.673, "text": "Good afternoon.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-163", "start": 1295.652, "end": 1298.671, "text": "Thank you for asking our office to present on this.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-164", "start": 1299.345, "end": 1303.36, "text": "I've been asked to present for 5 minutes, so I'm going to honor that.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-165", "start": 1303.52, "end": 1307.679, "text": "And I've got about a dozen slides focused on the charter.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-166", "start": 1308.498, "end": 1317.828, "text": "And at the very end, I have a slide about the ballot measure in 2006, which is one of the amendments to Chapter 5 of the charter.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-167", "start": 1317.972, "end": 1318.631, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-168", "start": 1319.18, "end": 1327.888, "text": "I'll refer to that throughout, but I've listed out some of the things that that ballot measure accomplished with respect to funding.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-169", "start": 1329.22, "end": 1332.211, "text": "And Leslie's been kind enough to help me with the slides.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-170", "start": 1332.308, "end": 1333.989, "text": "So next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-171", "start": 1336.62, "end": 1345.338, "text": "So just very high level here, Chapter 5 of the charter is the fire and police disability retirement and death benefit plan.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-172", "start": 1346.03, "end": 1350.86, "text": "It's known as the FPDR Plan, defines what the FPDR benefits are.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-173", "start": 1353.068, "end": 1360.176, "text": "It sets forth the requirements for FPDR to have a board of trustees and what the authority of that board is.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-174", "start": 1361.286, "end": 1369.136, "text": "It includes the fund administrator's authority and probably most germane to this discussion, how the FPDR levy operates.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-175", "start": 1370.465, "end": 1371.667, "text": "And the slides track this.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-176", "start": 1374.802, "end": 1376.699, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-177", "start": 1378.676, "end": 1386.663, "text": "So here, I won't, I won't get too far into the, uh, the details here, but, uh, just basically the, the plan has disability benefits.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-178", "start": 1387.32, "end": 1398.553, "text": "The 2 main categories are service-connected, uh, and that can be thought of as the workers' comp, workers' compensation benefit for sworn police and fire employees who are injured at work.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-179", "start": 1398.779, "end": 1400.249, "text": "And then the other category is the general disability benefits.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-180", "start": 1402.088, "end": 1412.1, "text": "And then there's the non-service-connected benefit, which is a little bit more limited in terms of the members who can access it because they have to have at least 10 or more years of service.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-181", "start": 1413.58, "end": 1417.217, "text": "So it's also paid, as the slide indicates, at a lower level.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-182", "start": 1418.976, "end": 1427.776, "text": "And just for the record, the capitalizations here are because these terms are defined in the charter.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-183", "start": 1427.987, "end": 1430.325, "text": "They're not just random capitalizations.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-184", "start": 1430.617, "end": 1431.299, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-185", "start": 1433.69, "end": 1445.969, "text": "And also in the plan, in addition to disability benefits or retirement benefits, there are 3 tiers, 1, 2, and those are both paid from the levy.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-186", "start": 1448.007, "end": 1451.167, "text": "The pension is paid from the levy and paid from this plan.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-187", "start": 1451.362, "end": 1457.799, "text": "And then there's FPDR Okay.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-188", "start": 1458.219, "end": 1462.947, "text": "And from the levy, the employer contribution is paid to PERS.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-189", "start": 1463.931, "end": 1476.193, "text": "And as indicated there, the FPDR 3 members are those who are hired on or after— or actually, I'm sorry, I think the charge says sworn on or after January 1st, 2007.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-190", "start": 1480.316, "end": 1492.55, "text": "There's also death benefit for surviving spouses, which is a term defined in the plan, and for surviving dependent minor children.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-191", "start": 1494.763, "end": 1503.007, "text": "The death after retirement benefit is only payable for FPDR 1 and 2.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-192", "start": 1504.787, "end": 1510.011, "text": "And then there's a funeral benefit available for all 3 tiers, all 3 programs.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-193", "start": 1510.221, "end": 1510.9, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-194", "start": 1514.17, "end": 1529.02, "text": "The composition of the Board of Trustees, and this is another product of the 2006 ballot measure, the board was changed from an 11-member board to a 5-member board comprised of the mayor and mayor's designee as the chair.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-195", "start": 1530.648, "end": 1537.006, "text": "An elected active member from the Fire Bureau, elected by the active members of the Bureau.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-196", "start": 1537.247, "end": 1543.073, "text": "And the same for the Police Bureau, a police trustee elected by active members of the Police Bureau.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-197", "start": 1544.38, "end": 1545.519, "text": "2 citizen trustees.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-198", "start": 1545.715, "end": 1561.941, "text": "And the enhancement here from the reform in 2006 was that the— the slide doesn't indicate it, but the charter says the citizen members are required to have relevant experience in pension or disability matters.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-199", "start": 1563.676, "end": 1577.948, "text": "And then, as indicated there, the mayor would nominate these citizen trustees, and they would come to the city council for a vote on whether to approve.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-200", "start": 1580.641, "end": 1596.489, "text": "And then the charter has a prohibition on the mayor, mayor's designee, citizen trustees, none of them may be active or past members or beneficiaries of the fund, or none of them can ever have been employed by the Portland Fire or Police Bureaus.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-201", "start": 1596.601, "end": 1608.622, "text": "Terms for the trustees, as indicated there, are 3 years, and the charter indicates some staggered terms that were necessary in order to implement these amendments at the beginning of 2007.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-202", "start": 1609.522, "end": 1610.148, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-203", "start": 1612.431, "end": 1620.042, "text": "The The Board of Trustees has the power to, under the charter, to adopt administrative rules for administration of the FPDR plan.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-204", "start": 1621.182, "end": 1627.506, "text": "The board may pay its administrative expenses from the fund and may borrow from the general fund.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-205", "start": 1627.923, "end": 1634.52, "text": "The charter says the board may, but has no obligation to pay other financial incentives that demonstrate a reduction in disability costs.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-206", "start": 1635.081, "end": 1636.092, "text": "They may purchase bonds.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-207", "start": 1636.285, "end": 1636.606, "text": "They may—.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-208", "start": 1636.606, "end": 1638.099, "text": "I have a question.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-209", "start": 1639.803, "end": 1656.091, "text": "Approve the appointment by the mayor of the fund administrator, subject again to confirmation by the city council, and they have the authority to determine the cost of living adjustment annually for FPDR plan retirees, and that's capped at 2%.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-210", "start": 1656.253, "end": 1658.388, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-211", "start": 1661.09, "end": 1664.897, "text": "The fund administrator's authority— I have to correct myself on this first yes.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-212", "start": 1664.945, "end": 1668.444, "text": "So the first bullet, it actually— that actually derives from the Portland City Code.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-213", "start": 1669.205, "end": 1673.562, "text": "But the code has the fund administrator serving as the director of the FPDR Bureau.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-214", "start": 1675.12, "end": 1694.368, "text": "But the charter sets forth the powers of the fund administrator to make disability and retirement benefit claim decisions, to decide approval of a settlement brought by an FPDR member against a third party for subrogation, like A car accident is kind of a classic example of that.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-215", "start": 1694.997, "end": 1701.914, "text": "And to settle any claim up to the maximum amount that the FPDR Board prescribes through its administrative rules.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-216", "start": 1702.125, "end": 1711.703, "text": "It's at $35,000 currently, and it's been that way for— I'd have to look back, but it's been several years, maybe more than 10.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-217", "start": 1712.221, "end": 1712.918, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-218", "start": 1715.316, "end": 1718.02, "text": "Okay, and here's how the FPDR levy operates.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-219", "start": 1719.25, "end": 1720.529, "text": "This is all just straight out of the charter.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-220", "start": 1721.684, "end": 1735.918, "text": "And so on an annual basis before the deadline that the City Council sets, FPDR's Board of Trustees is tasked with preparing and transmitting to the Council a statement that includes the following items.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-221", "start": 1736.769, "end": 1743.212, "text": "It's the amount of— number one is the amount of money required for the next fiscal year to pay and discharge all the requirements of the fund.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-222", "start": 1744.079, "end": 1747.003, "text": "The vast majority of those would be retirement benefits.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-223", "start": 1747.774, "end": 1758.613, "text": "And that's the estimated revenue to the fund during the next fiscal year from all sources except the levy, plus the balance estimated to be in the fund at the beginning of the next fiscal year.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-224", "start": 1759.31, "end": 1770.06, "text": "My understanding is the— that represents probably about— the non-levy revenue represents about 2% of the overall fund liabilities.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-225", "start": 1770.723, "end": 1772.658, "text": "A statement of all payments made.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-226", "start": 1773.084, "end": 1774.672, "text": "And here's a typo here.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-227", "start": 1775.065, "end": 1779.819, "text": "It should say thank you.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-228", "start": 1781.878, "end": 1795.819, "text": "The total amount paid into and estimated to be paid into the fund from all sources except loans from the general fund and advances from the reserve fund during the current fiscal year, plus the balance of the reserve fund at the beginning of the current fiscal year.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-229", "start": 1796.842, "end": 1800.885, "text": "The reserve fund is capped at $750,000.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-230", "start": 1800.966, "end": 1801.518, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-231", "start": 1802.143, "end": 1811.492, "text": "And then the last item required for the levy is a statement setting forth the total amount of money required by the fund to discharge its obligations.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-232", "start": 1811.605, "end": 1816.335, "text": "And there's a formula in the charter explaining how that works.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-233", "start": 1817.282, "end": 1824.771, "text": "And then the other source of funding for FPDR in the charter is referred to here.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-234", "start": 1824.851, "end": 1827.241, "text": "It's actually in Chapter 5.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-235", "start": 1827.305, "end": 1828.428, "text": "There's pardon me.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-236", "start": 1828.476, "end": 1841.842, "text": "This cross-reference to Chapter 7, which provides for another— in addition to the 2.5 mills, which a mill is like a thousandth of a dollar or a tenth of a cent.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-237", "start": 1842.07, "end": 1842.72, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-238", "start": 1842.964, "end": 1852.708, "text": "In addition to those, that maximum allowed under Chapter 5, Chapter 7, 110.5 allows an additional 3 tenths of a mill on each dollar.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-239", "start": 1853.553, "end": 1856.381, "text": "Of assessed valuation to be levied.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-240", "start": 1859.62, "end": 1860.208, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-241", "start": 1863.66, "end": 1875.304, "text": "Straight from the charter again, minimum levy has to be no less than $1 mil per dollar valuation unless that levy— unless levying the minimum would cause a reserve fund to exceed $750,000.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-242", "start": 1879.102, "end": 1887.986, "text": "The levy is not subject to the limitation of Section 11— or sorry, I should say Article 11, Section 11 of the Oregon Constitution.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-243", "start": 1888.966, "end": 1895.986, "text": "Um, and the proceeds of the tax levy, to the extent of the amount required by the fund, shall be paid into the fund.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-244", "start": 1896.918, "end": 1899.922, "text": "Uh, any balance, uh, should be paid to the reserve fund.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-245", "start": 1900.789, "end": 1908.795, "text": "And there's also, um, any, uh, assets of the fund, uh, Are to be deposited with the city treasurer.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-246", "start": 1910.58, "end": 1916.335, "text": "So there's some theoretical opportunity to invest those within the legal limitations.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-247", "start": 1921.535, "end": 1922.313, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-248", "start": 1927.6, "end": 1941.114, "text": "So the authority to change the plan when required by law, and this has happened over the years, council may extend to FPDR members additional benefits not described by Chapter 5 of the charter by ordinance.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-249", "start": 1943.09, "end": 1949.739, "text": "Charter also allows council to include reductions in corresponding benefits as another authority under the charter.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-250", "start": 1950.304, "end": 1956.807, "text": "Charter requires council to seek the advice of the FPDR board before taking action to change benefits, even when required by law.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-251", "start": 1959.161, "end": 1962.54, "text": "And then any other changes to the FPDR plan would require a ballot measure.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-252", "start": 1964.82, "end": 1966.421, "text": "Uh, next slide, please.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-253", "start": 1968.2, "end": 1970.77, "text": "I think this— I think I've got maybe 2 left.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-254", "start": 1971.429, "end": 1986.825, "text": "Um, so the 2006 ballot measure, um, was referred to voters by the City Council, and a lot of what I've described, um, were amendments that resulted from that ballot measure, which passed.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-255", "start": 1986.892, "end": 1995.324, "text": "Um, for funding, the significant changes were creation of the FPDR 3 program for sworn fire and police employees.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-256", "start": 1998.86, "end": 2006.63, "text": "And under the plan, FPDR 3 currently only gets the disability and death benefits.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-257", "start": 2006.678, "end": 2010.84, "text": "That's what that first, or one of the sub-bullets there is intended to mean.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-258", "start": 2010.888, "end": 2012.227, "text": "The way it's written is a little confusing.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-259", "start": 2012.324, "end": 2021.108, "text": "But now that they're in PERS, in other words, for FPDR 3, The FPDR plan applies to them with respect to disability and the death benefits.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-260", "start": 2024.176, "end": 2030.536, "text": "Including the FPDR levy, PERS contributions on behalf of sworn members involved— I'm sorry, enrolled in PERS.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-261", "start": 2031.117, "end": 2033.763, "text": "That was another change from the ballot measure.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-262", "start": 2034.344, "end": 2041.179, "text": "And it also— the ballot measure also allows the fund to pay PERS contributions on behalf of sworn employees enrolled in PERS.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-263", "start": 2046.08, "end": 2047.399, "text": "Um, man, I may have one.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-264", "start": 2047.592, "end": 2048.51, "text": "Is there one more slide?", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-265", "start": 2049.025, "end": 2049.845, "text": "That's the end.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-266", "start": 2050.087, "end": 2051.052, "text": "That's it.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-267", "start": 2051.133, "end": 2053.23, "text": "I, I hope I stayed within my 5 minutes.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-268", "start": 2054.107, "end": 2054.27, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-269", "start": 2054.351, "end": 2054.676, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-270", "start": 2056.462, "end": 2057.128, "text": "Thank you so much.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-271", "start": 2057.226, "end": 2065.752, "text": "I'm going to open this up for questions before we, um, we'll probably— we might end up asking you back up if there's no questions now as well, but, um, I'll just open it up, so feel free to get in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-272", "start": 2065.994, "end": 2066.961, "text": "Uh, Council President Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-273", "start": 2067.042, "end": 2068.277, "text": "Thank thanks, Franco.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-274", "start": 2068.325, "end": 2075.064, "text": "Maybe you can tell me a little bit of the history regarding the most recent ballot initiative to improve this.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-275", "start": 2075.144, "end": 2079.692, "text": "Do you know what ultimately the impetus for this update was?", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-276", "start": 2079.74, "end": 2083.533, "text": "Was it just that like an improvement to the model, improvement to oversight?", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-277", "start": 2083.581, "end": 2089.81, "text": "What was the reason why we did a ballot, a second ballot initiative on this in the 2000s or whatever it was you said?", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-278", "start": 2089.923, "end": 2094.66, "text": "See, I brought a copy.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-279", "start": 2095.261, "end": 2102.659, "text": "There was a, uh, an election in November of 2012.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-280", "start": 2105.559, "end": 2108.086, "text": "Pardon me, it's just hard to keep all these straight from memory.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-281", "start": 2109.93, "end": 2149.624, "text": "Um, So there have been, there have been a number of, uh, well, the ballot initiative in 2012, um, I can't tell which of these amendments is by ballot measure.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-282", "start": 2154.014, "end": 2162.648, "text": "Let's see, there was a special compliance amendment, but I don't know that that went to the voters.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-283", "start": 2164.33, "end": 2168, "text": "Um, I might have to get back to you on that, President Dunphy.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-284", "start": 2168.26, "end": 2168.585, "text": "No problem.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-285", "start": 2168.926, "end": 2171.005, "text": "Apologies, there's, there's a number, a number of amendments.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-286", "start": 2171.397, "end": 2174.866, "text": "You're not expected to be a historian and a lawyer, so thanks.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-287", "start": 2175.142, "end": 2175.547, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-288", "start": 2177.98, "end": 2179.017, "text": "Thanks, Council President.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-289", "start": 2179.098, "end": 2188.592, "text": "I, I might maybe— would, would the same answer apply to a slightly different question, which is, can you explain not the 2012 change but anything about why 2006 happened?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-290", "start": 2190.054, "end": 2191.34, "text": "Why 2006 happened?", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-291", "start": 2191.42, "end": 2215.362, "text": "I think, um, I mean, it preceded me, but I do think that there was an examination of the The structure of the plan and how it was funded and how could, um, how to minimize the risk to the, to the plan, the participants, and the taxpayers, um, by virtue of how the, how the plan was funded.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-292", "start": 2216.213, "end": 2230.564, "text": "And so the, uh, you know, the result obviously was the creation of FPDR 3 and less, less of the beneficiary population as being subject to the pay-as-you-go funding.", "speaker": "Franco Lucin" }, { "id": "cue-293", "start": 2231.504, "end": 2232.217, "text": "Okay, thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-294", "start": 2233.627, "end": 2236.182, "text": "Seeing no one else in the queue, I'm going to say thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-295", "start": 2236.23, "end": 2244.664, "text": "We might ask you back up at some point, but I'm going to welcome up the Deputy Director of FPDR, Stacy Jones, as well as our Chief Financial Officer, Jonas Beery.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-296", "start": 2245.149, "end": 2246.039, "text": "Thank you both for being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-297", "start": 2249.307, "end": 2253.661, "text": "Acknowledge that we have a director in the back there, and I want to acknowledge him for his service.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-298", "start": 2253.774, "end": 2258.35, "text": "I know that he's On his way to retirement, if I hear soon or not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-299", "start": 2258.35, "end": 2262.47, "text": "I don't know exactly your date, but I just wanted to say thank you for the service as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-300", "start": 2263.65, "end": 2264.23, "text": "But take it away.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-301", "start": 2264.23, "end": 2265.27, "text": "I don't know who's going first.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-302", "start": 2265.59, "end": 2265.99, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-303", "start": 2265.99, "end": 2267.87, "text": "Thank you, Chair and committee.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-304", "start": 2267.87, "end": 2279.79, "text": "And yeah, thank you for acknowledging current, for a few weeks anyway, current Director Sam Hutchinson, who's, I believe, leaving us as the longest-standing bureau director currently at the city.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-305", "start": 2279.79, "end": 2283.43, "text": "And so appreciate Sam for all your commitment to the city.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-306", "start": 2283.79, "end": 2284.55, "text": "So we'll start.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-307", "start": 2286.507, "end": 2288.545, "text": "Just the quick slide.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-308", "start": 2288.834, "end": 2290.021, "text": "Yeah, thank you, Leslie.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-309", "start": 2290.695, "end": 2297.996, "text": "So just quick run of show for the next few minutes with Stacy and I, and then get to other speakers and questions.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-310", "start": 2298.525, "end": 2304.542, "text": "We just want to share a little bit about the current FPDR plan and funding expectations under the current circumstances.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-311", "start": 2304.975, "end": 2310.078, "text": "We'll probably skip past a couple slides because Franco covered a couple of these in greater detail than we have.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-312", "start": 2310.591, "end": 2317.393, "text": "And then also want to end with a quick snapshot of why kind of potential funding alternatives May present some challenges that council should be aware of.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-313", "start": 2319.13, "end": 2331.63, "text": "So let's move forward, Leslie, and I think we'll skip through— we have just for reference a couple of slides that summarize the plan and the fund, but this is largely similar to the information City Attorney just presented.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-314", "start": 2332.115, "end": 2336.497, "text": "So we'll move on to a couple slides further in the interest of time.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-315", "start": 2336.933, "end": 2342.814, "text": "Yeah, so just wanted to talk a little bit about very generally kind of standard pension funding models.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-316", "start": 2342.879, "end": 2343.904, "text": "And we can go to the next slide, please.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-317", "start": 2343.953, "end": 2354.013, "text": "The standard The standard model for most pension funds, public pension funds, is to pre-fund or at least partially pre-fund for future costs and liabilities.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-318", "start": 2354.751, "end": 2359.068, "text": "That typically can be less expensive, aligns to the principle of intergenerational equity.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-319", "start": 2359.887, "end": 2363.401, "text": "And acknowledging this is, I think, where the question— line of questioning a moment ago was going.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-320", "start": 2364.252, "end": 2372.436, "text": "Since 2007, FPDR has been transitioning to a partially pre-funded model via that charter change in 2006.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-321", "start": 2372.485, "end": 2372.661, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-322", "start": 2373.864, "end": 2383.77, "text": "That moved sworn employees to be covered by PERS and the prefunded, partial prefunding model of PERS.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-323", "start": 2383.914, "end": 2386.864, "text": "So that is underway, and I think Stacy will talk a little more about that.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-324", "start": 2387.874, "end": 2388.499, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-325", "start": 2389.797, "end": 2394.414, "text": "The FP&R plan, at least the legacy model of the FP&R plan, is a pay-as-you-go plan.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-326", "start": 2395.488, "end": 2400.041, "text": "A few decades ago, this kind of a plan was very common for public pensions.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-327", "start": 2400.778, "end": 2404.433, "text": "I think today, other than Social Security, there are very few.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-328", "start": 2405.459, "end": 2409.34, "text": "Strictly pay-as-you-go plans, public pension plans remaining.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-329", "start": 2409.468, "end": 2419.714, "text": "And again, the FPDNR system does— was historically and partially remains pay-as-you-go while the long tail of transitioning to state PERS is completed.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-330", "start": 2420.596, "end": 2440.375, "text": "Also really important to note, as was previewed in the City Attorney presentation, FPDNR system is extremely unique among public pensions in that it, despite it being pay-as-you-go, Also has extremely unique one-of-a-kind payment source, which is the dedicated charter-approved property tax levy.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-331", "start": 2440.52, "end": 2448.802, "text": "So just acknowledging that that unique element makes it a little difficult to do apples-to-apples comparisons to other pension systems.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-332", "start": 2449.235, "end": 2455.767, "text": "Just a— uniquity is a word someone used recently, a uniquity that we have to consider as we think about that.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-333", "start": 2456.682, "end": 2464.613, "text": "And happy to dig into this more, but in the interest of time, we'll just go ahead and hand to Deputy Director Jones for the next few slides.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-334", "start": 2465.208, "end": 2465.593, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-335", "start": 2465.85, "end": 2466.605, "text": "Good afternoon.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-336", "start": 2466.734, "end": 2468.244, "text": "Thanks so much for having me today.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-337", "start": 2468.501, "end": 2475.488, "text": "For the record, I'm Stacy Jones, Deputy Director/Pension Manager/Finance Manager over at FPDR.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-338", "start": 2475.568, "end": 2477.511, "text": "Can we go to the next slide, please, Leslie?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-339", "start": 2478.314, "end": 2484.322, "text": "So as Jonas and Franco have both mentioned, the FPDR pension plan was closed at the end of 2006.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-340", "start": 2484.9, "end": 2487.518, "text": "So what does that look like in a chronological yeah.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-341", "start": 2488.417, "end": 2495.126, "text": "Well, the good thing about operating a closed plan is that you have very predictable and obviously finite time horizon.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-342", "start": 2495.785, "end": 2500.504, "text": "And we also have some really clear demographic and financial markers as we close out the plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-343", "start": 2501.323, "end": 2511.66, "text": "It is a long process, and that is because pension plans are very long-lived things, which is because human beings are long-lived things, which is probably a good thing, or at least I'm sure we all think it is.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-344", "start": 2512.254, "end": 2514.485, "text": "So I just want to point out a few things on this.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-345", "start": 2515.962, "end": 2517.341, "text": "Number one, where are we now?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-346", "start": 2517.951, "end": 2531.879, "text": "Here in 2026, a little over 4/5 of our legacy FPDR plan members are retired, and those remaining active employees are going to retire over the next few years.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-347", "start": 2532.97, "end": 2545.662, "text": "Second, just want to point out that the FPDR plan benefit costs and the FPDR tax levy— and I'll talk a bit more about why those are slightly different— are going to peak in the next 5 to 10 years and then start declining.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-348", "start": 2545.775, "end": 2545.951, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-349", "start": 2546.995, "end": 2554.638, "text": "And then last, just the total plan closeout will likely happen by the 2070s when the last FPDR beneficiaries pass away.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-350", "start": 2555.023, "end": 2563.292, "text": "And at that point, then the FPDR levy will only fund PERS contributions for active sworn employees and FPDR disability plan costs.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-351", "start": 2563.389, "end": 2566.391, "text": "If we could bump to the next slide.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-352", "start": 2567.162, "end": 2570.903, "text": "So let me talk a little bit about how the FPDR fund itself works.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-353", "start": 2571.192, "end": 2571.481, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-354", "start": 2572.16, "end": 2576.192, "text": "Costs, the tax levy, and projections for both of those over the next few decades.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-355", "start": 2576.804, "end": 2580.869, "text": "So I promise I won't read every word on this slide, but let me just point out a few things.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-356", "start": 2581.77, "end": 2595.557, "text": "The levy is stress-tested every 2 years by an independent actuarial firm, and that testing shows near certainty that the levy will always be an adequate resource for FPDR costs within that charter cap.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-357", "start": 2597.186, "end": 2608.954, "text": "Essentially, you know, the odds of ever needing resources beyond what the FPDR levy can provide to cover FPDR costs is very, very low, like lower than the probability that I'll ever get through my email inbox.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-358", "start": 2609.131, "end": 2610.27, "text": "It's never going to happen.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-359", "start": 2610.992, "end": 2621.259, "text": "Another thing I just want to point out is that like all permanent levies, the FPDR levy is both a victim and a perpetrator of tax compression, and we can talk more about that later if you like.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-360", "start": 2622.222, "end": 2625.96, "text": "I do think this slide is also a good place to mention, although it's not on the slide, Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-361", "start": 2626.008, "end": 2632.138, "text": "So I just wanna remind that the total FPDR plan liability is $3.6 billion as of June 30th.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-362", "start": 2632.635, "end": 2636.197, "text": "And you will sometimes hear people talk about that as an unfunded liability.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-363", "start": 2637.305, "end": 2649.917, "text": "And it is an unfunded liability in an accounting sense because governmental accounting standards require us to book all those future benefit payments all the way out until the very end of the plan as a liability today.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-364", "start": 2651.024, "end": 2659.512, "text": "But we cannot— governmental accounting standards prohibit us from booking all those future tax revenues that will pay for those benefits We cannot book those as an asset today.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-365", "start": 2659.929, "end": 2662.624, "text": "So in an accounting sense, it is indeed unfunded.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-366", "start": 2663.137, "end": 2667.388, "text": "But in a sort of practical cash flow sense, there is no funding gap.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-367", "start": 2667.789, "end": 2675.2, "text": "The projected resources from the levy are sufficient at projections to fully offset those future benefit payments.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-368", "start": 2675.249, "end": 2677.526, "text": "So just wanted to mention that kind of important point.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-369", "start": 2678.938, "end": 2680.189, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-370", "start": 2680.301, "end": 2682.066, "text": "I'm going to make you look at charts.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-371", "start": 2682.275, "end": 2683.815, "text": "Well, they're kind of pretty anyway.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-372", "start": 2683.863, "end": 2684.087, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-373", "start": 2684.97, "end": 2689.015, "text": "This chart illustrates projected FPDR plan benefit costs.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-374", "start": 2689.16, "end": 2694.393, "text": "So this is plan benefit costs through 2063 in nominal dollars.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-375", "start": 2695.131, "end": 2698.149, "text": "And this was prepared by an independent actuarial firm.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-376", "start": 2698.759, "end": 2709.723, "text": "And so you can see that we're still in like the climbing phase of the plan closeout, although we're almost to the top because we expect those plan expenses to peak in about 10 years.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-377", "start": 2710.799, "end": 2714.443, "text": "Unfortunately, there's no quick like gondola ride down the other side of the mountain when we get to the top.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-378", "start": 2714.491, "end": 2714.539, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-379", "start": 2715.597, "end": 2728.856, "text": "But once all the legacy plan members have retired, then mortality will start to have its impacts, and then we'll have this long continuous decline in expenses throughout the 2040s, 2050s, and 2060s.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-380", "start": 2729.641, "end": 2739.405, "text": "So this is just, you know, kind of a good visual of the natural bell curve trajectory involved in closing a pay-as-you-go plan in a dollars and cents sense.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-381", "start": 2740.207, "end": 2744.439, "text": "If we weren't starting at 2024, it would really look more like a bell curve if you could see those earlier years.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-382", "start": 2744.487, "end": 2744.599, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-383", "start": 2745.019, "end": 2745.585, "text": "Ramping up.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-384", "start": 2746.087, "end": 2756.078, "text": "I mean, it actually looks a lot like the amortization of an unfunded liability in a prefunded plan, but this is happening over a longer period of time.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-385", "start": 2758.36, "end": 2759.573, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-386", "start": 2760.755, "end": 2770.053, "text": "So this chart shows a 20-year projection of total fund costs, not just plan costs, also prepared by an independent actuarial firm.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-387", "start": 2771.059, "end": 2789.387, "text": "So the costs on this slide now include the prefunded PERS contributions for sworn employees hired after 2006 who are in PERS, not in the FPDR plan, as well as the costs you saw on the previous slide for the pay-as-you-go FPDR plan benefits as the plan closes out.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-388", "start": 2790.188, "end": 2798.647, "text": "But it shows a similar pattern with total FPDR fund costs peaking in the 2030s and then starting to decline.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-389", "start": 2798.743, "end": 2805.649, "text": "The decline is a little more gradual because we've folded in those PERS contributions and those PERS contributions are never going away.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-390", "start": 2806.05, "end": 2807.813, "text": "So that's why the decline is a little more gradual.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-391", "start": 2808.277, "end": 2817.796, "text": "So I think this slide is a better depiction of the whole transition, and I think it shows best why this moment in the transition is so expensive.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-392", "start": 2818.773, "end": 2842.259, "text": "Current taxpayers are intentionally bearing the full or almost full double burden of both funding current pay-as-you-go pension benefits for an entire cohort of legacy retirees and prefunding the sworn pensions of almost an entire cohort of the current active sworn workforce.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-393", "start": 2842.709, "end": 2844.876, "text": "So you can kind of see that in this slide.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-394", "start": 2844.94, "end": 2852.966, "text": "I mean, of course they're doing that to secure long-term savings for future generations of taxpayers, but that double burden is there right now.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-395", "start": 2853.046, "end": 2858.359, "text": "I mean, it's kind of like paying for your kids' college tuition while you're paying off your student loans, if any of you have ever had that experience.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-396", "start": 2858.84, "end": 2862.737, "text": "So I think that's a good way to think of it.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-397", "start": 2862.833, "end": 2864.02, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-398", "start": 2864.292, "end": 2865.03, "text": "Sorry, can I just—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-399", "start": 2865.222, "end": 2865.286, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-400", "start": 2866.265, "end": 2874.17, "text": "When that thing that you just described with the double payment, what is the time-bound— like, what is the era in which people are paying double?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-401", "start": 2874.7, "end": 2879.671, "text": "I mean, I would say that it is roughly across 2 generations.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-402", "start": 2881.034, "end": 2882.204, "text": "Starting in 2007?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-403", "start": 2882.333, "end": 2888.196, "text": "Starting in 2007, and then and then fully winding down in the 2070s when those last beneficiaries die.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-404", "start": 2888.761, "end": 2897.778, "text": "So earlier I mentioned, hey, this kind of looks like what you would do with an unfunded liability in a prefunded plan, but normally you'd pay down a liability in 20 or 30 years in a prefunded plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-405", "start": 2898.36, "end": 2901.627, "text": "We're doing the same thing, but over a longer period of time.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-406", "start": 2901.869, "end": 2902.274, "text": "Exactly.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-407", "start": 2902.371, "end": 2902.92, "text": "Does that make sense?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-408", "start": 2903.049, "end": 2903.226, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-409", "start": 2905.419, "end": 2910.257, "text": "So this slide shows some historic actuals and projections for the FPDR tax levy.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-410", "start": 2910.708, "end": 2918.639, "text": "So I want to make sure everyone understands this is the RMV rate, the real market value rate levy, not the AV assessed value rate.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-411", "start": 2919.137, "end": 2924.097, "text": "We pay very close attention to the RMV rate because that's what the cap is on in city charter.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-412", "start": 2924.579, "end": 2929.588, "text": "But I can also talk to you about the AV rate, which is what property taxpayers actually see.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-413", "start": 2930.375, "end": 2936.652, "text": "So this slide shows the actual RMV levy rate for the last 5 years, the city projected rate for the next 5 years.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-414", "start": 2936.7, "end": 2936.989, "text": "And the last 5 years.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-415", "start": 2937.07, "end": 2944.482, "text": "Next 5 years, and then a rate projection for the following 15 years that has been prepared by an independent actuarial firm.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-416", "start": 2944.579, "end": 2948.782, "text": "I mean, so again, it's kind of a similar visual to the last 2 slides.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-417", "start": 2949.216, "end": 2954.928, "text": "We expect the RMV levy to peak in 5-ish years at $1.75.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-418", "start": 2955.537, "end": 2961.169, "text": "I think that peak may push out and up a little bit when this model is updated in a few months.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-419", "start": 2961.329, "end": 2965.357, "text": "This data is from the 2024 financial model, which is the latest one that we have.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-420", "start": 2965.405, "end": 2965.533, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-421", "start": 2966.769, "end": 2975.149, "text": "But the takeaway is that this trajectory, you know, aligns with what was described in the 2006 ballot measure and is the result of the 2006 ballot measure.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-422", "start": 2976.016, "end": 2989.164, "text": "But just for reference, the current assessed value rate— so this is what taxpayers are actually looking at in '26-'27 when they get their bills— it should be about $3.19 per $1,000 of assessed value.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-423", "start": 2989.581, "end": 2992.166, "text": "And I can talk about the history and projections for that as well if you would like.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-424", "start": 2992.262, "end": 2992.519, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-425", "start": 2994.636, "end": 2998.502, "text": "But for now, I'm going to hand it back over to Jonas for the last slide or 2.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-426", "start": 2999.673, "end": 3001.068, "text": "Great, thanks, Stacy.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-427", "start": 3001.132, "end": 3006.971, "text": "So the last slide— yeah, and you go ahead and bump one forward, please— is just a quick snapshot.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-428", "start": 3007.051, "end": 3019.914, "text": "I think we're probably going to hear more about this, but just a quick snapshot of some general different strategies that could be explored and sort of our quick view of key trade-offs.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-429", "start": 3020.235, "end": 3023.847, "text": "So the first option would be to create a cash reserve, to cash fund.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-430", "start": 3024.473, "end": 3025.902, "text": "That's likely unviable.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-431", "start": 3026.079, "end": 3030.19, "text": "It requires significant one-time resource that, to my knowledge, does not exist.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-432", "start": 3031.137, "end": 3043.036, "text": "A second option would be to adjust the rules and the levy so that we could have sort of a one-time increase in that levy rate, the levy resource, and create a one-time funding source.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-433", "start": 3043.454, "end": 3048.898, "text": "But of course, that would be pretty disruptive to current year or whatever year we implement that tax yes.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-434", "start": 3048.946, "end": 3056.595, "text": "Taxpayers in that year would have pretty severe tax compression impacts, including impacts to the city and overlapping jurisdictions.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-435", "start": 3057.477, "end": 3060.508, "text": "So we characterize that as highly disruptive.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-436", "start": 3061.086, "end": 3067.132, "text": "Third option would be to increase the levy rate, the FPDR levy rate within the charter limit over a period of time.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-437", "start": 3067.501, "end": 3074.637, "text": "So increasing the burden on near-term taxpayers to mitigate those costs in the long term.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-438", "start": 3075.247, "end": 3086.83, "text": "Again, would have similar impacts to the second option, just at a lower level, but still fairly disruptive to current circumstances and near-term taxpayers.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-439", "start": 3087.295, "end": 3100.386, "text": "And then the fourth option is one that sometimes is used for pension systems, public pension systems, has been used by the city in the distant past, and that's issuing pension obligation bonds to provide that prefunding resource.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-440", "start": 3100.466, "end": 3100.819, "text": "I think that's a good option.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-441", "start": 3100.9, "end": 3108.757, "text": "And I'll note, while technically that is feasible, it does increase risk to the city's financial system.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-442", "start": 3109.51, "end": 3115.283, "text": "It relies critically on achieving investment earnings that are higher than the cost of borrowing on those pension bonds.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-443", "start": 3115.924, "end": 3120.029, "text": "It impacts the city's debt limitations and the city's broader credit risk profile.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-444", "start": 3121.2, "end": 3128.736, "text": "The GFOA, Government Finance Officers Association, actually has a best practice that advises against issuance of pension bonds, largely yes.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-445", "start": 3129.073, "end": 3132.201, "text": "Because of that risk elevation rate.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-446", "start": 3132.907, "end": 3155.525, "text": "And just noting as well that similar to kind of maybe the third option, one of the trade-offs of pension bonds is likely that it would reduce the levy rate in the near term, but extend that tail, increase some of those levy rates in the longer years as we pay that off, or at least if we pay off whatever amount we're sort of pushing through the debt service.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-447", "start": 3159.552, "end": 3206.849, "text": "So short of— To quickly summarize from our perspective, short of some sort of fundamental shift in the financial reality or fundamental shift in the projections or someone offering the city a low-risk windfall resource, it does seem like from the seat I sit in that the viable strategy is to stay the current course, To recognize that we are on a pathway of moving towards long-term levy rate reductions to taxpayers, that that was implemented in '26, and accept that sort of reality so we can get to a place of long-term financial stabilization and get those levy rate decreases for the next many decades through 2070 and beyond.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-448", "start": 3207.53, "end": 3210.907, "text": "Last note I'll make is appreciate appreciate the space for the conversation.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-449", "start": 3211.021, "end": 3224.803, "text": "As, as I've acknowledged in this room and with folks here, I absolutely love anything that can help save the city money, that can help reduce costs, costs to the city, costs to our residents and taxpayers.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-450", "start": 3225.547, "end": 3231.627, "text": "So value the space for the conversation and look forward to hearing any other ideas or options about how we might achieve that.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-451", "start": 3233.682, "end": 3234.028, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-452", "start": 3235.028, "end": 3240.519, "text": "I'm going to open up the queue before we get to our 3rd, uh, presenter for any clarifying questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-453", "start": 3240.856, "end": 3243.441, "text": "Um, I'm going to go to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, then Council President Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-454", "start": 3243.922, "end": 3244.869, "text": "Thank you, Chair Kanal.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-455", "start": 3245.592, "end": 3257.263, "text": "Um, so just to clarify, the levy is set to continue paying for our PERS contributions for this group of workers in perpetuity, essentially, at this point.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-456", "start": 3257.488, "end": 3273.06, "text": "The levy doesn't go away or reduce dramatically to just cover the retirement Or the, I'm sorry, the disability pieces or death benefit pieces, we continue to assess that levy for our PERS payments.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-457", "start": 3273.124, "end": 3273.846, "text": "Is that accurate?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-458", "start": 3274.952, "end": 3276.892, "text": "Yes, that is correct.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-459", "start": 3277.389, "end": 3282.07, "text": "So that is the funding source for the city's sworn PERS contributions in perpetuity.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-460", "start": 3282.182, "end": 3291.993, "text": "I mean, the levy will still reduce dramatically once we've gotten rid of these legacy pay-as-you-go costs, but the levy will continue in perpetuity funding those sworn PERS contributions as the charter is written now.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-461", "start": 3292.523, "end": 3296.168, "text": "And also the very minor costs of the FPDR disability plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-462", "start": 3296.537, "end": 3296.762, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-463", "start": 3297.34, "end": 3315.74, "text": "And I want to ask a question about when this double payment period ends, because on the 2 charts you had on pages 12 and 13, the cost of the FPDR plans extends out to almost 2070, it looks like.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-464", "start": 3315.82, "end": 3317.587, "text": "And so you really see that full taper.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-465", "start": 3317.715, "end": 3320.971, "text": "We don't We don't get to see that on the other chart because it ends in 2044.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-466", "start": 3321.805, "end": 3331.766, "text": "If the second chart had extended, would we see a dramatic reduction when we stop prepaying, or would we not see that dramatic reduction?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-467", "start": 3332.392, "end": 3335.022, "text": "You would see a dramatic reduction.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-468", "start": 3335.135, "end": 3343.123, "text": "I mean, our actuary just didn't prepare that slide as far out as they do for the pension plan piece, but you would see a similar reduction.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-469", "start": 3343.171, "end": 3349.946, "text": "It's more gradual, as I mentioned before, because So we're not getting rid of those PERS benefits or the PERS contributions.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-470", "start": 3350.541, "end": 3353.545, "text": "And I should also mention that you would see it getting more and more volatile.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-471", "start": 3354.059, "end": 3359.264, "text": "You'll see the volatility in this kind of box and whiskers chart, and the volatility is increasing as we go on in time.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-472", "start": 3359.377, "end": 3366.815, "text": "And that's because of all the uncertainty around PERS investment returns the further out you get, which creates uncertainty about PERS contribution rates the further out you get.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-473", "start": 3366.863, "end": 3369.755, "text": "That's just normal uncertainty with actuaries predicting further out?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-474", "start": 3369.819, "end": 3373.369, "text": "Just normal uncertainty that any finance person would yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-475", "start": 3373.466, "end": 3381.171, "text": "So when we changed to Plan 3, do we call it Plan 3 or do we call it Tier 3 like PERS?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-476", "start": 3381.527, "end": 3382.721, "text": "We call it FPDR 3, but—.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-477", "start": 3382.753, "end": 3382.817, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-478", "start": 3382.978, "end": 3395.362, "text": "When we changed to FPDR 3, was there conversation about the fact that we would see a massive rate spike because we would be double paying both the pay-as-you-go and the prefunding at the same time?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-479", "start": 3396.59, "end": 3402.375, "text": "Well, that predates my time, but I can tell you, I mean, we do have the ballot measure language.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-480", "start": 3403.186, "end": 3405.012, "text": "The ballot measure itself did say that.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-481", "start": 3405.221, "end": 3419.127, "text": "So let me read, like, here's a sentence from the 2006 ballot measure: Changing the retirement system for new public safety officers is expected to increase the existing property tax levy rate in the short term and decrease the rate in the long term.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-482", "start": 3420.264, "end": 3420.585, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-483", "start": 3420.809, "end": 3421.722, "text": "So I can tell you that.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-484", "start": 3422.011, "end": 3425.888, "text": "Maybe we weren't clear on the extent of time, but it was transparent.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-485", "start": 3426.096, "end": 3439.212, "text": "Yeah, and Councilor, I would add too, I mean, I don't know exactly how long we've been working with Milliman, but we have continued to have we have for decades that forecast report that would've also been a resource to show that.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-486", "start": 3439.822, "end": 3449.693, "text": "We know, at least in the time Stacy and I have been around, there have been moments where that levy adequacy report did suggest there was risk of being higher than the charter limit.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-487", "start": 3449.741, "end": 3451.41, "text": "That was a concern a decade or so ago.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-488", "start": 3452.181, "end": 3459.917, "text": "And so, A, it has been known and opportunities to communicate out what was happening with the projection of the levy.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-489", "start": 3459.965, "end": 3471.749, "text": "We've certainly done that in the context of prior year budget conversations and acknowledging that the current profile, cost profile and risk profile is actually lower today than it would've been, say, a decade ago.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-490", "start": 3472.53, "end": 3472.723, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-491", "start": 3472.965, "end": 3475.369, "text": "I think that might be helpful information to be able to share.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-492", "start": 3475.547, "end": 3475.87, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-493", "start": 3477.967, "end": 3478.984, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-494", "start": 3479.097, "end": 3479.887, "text": "Councilor President Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-495", "start": 3480.452, "end": 3480.968, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-496", "start": 3481.436, "end": 3489.261, "text": "Jonas, at the beginning you mentioned that the pay-as-you-go model was a pretty common way that municipalities paid for these things a while ago.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-497", "start": 3489.953, "end": 3491.869, "text": "And, you know, obviously the State of Oregon has moved towards PURS.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-498", "start": 3492.01, "end": 3498.178, "text": "And we are now in this vaguely uncomfortable and very expensive double-paying situation.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-499", "start": 3498.595, "end": 3502.424, "text": "How are other cities in other places that used to do these things?", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-500", "start": 3502.52, "end": 3516.267, "text": "I mean, I assume there has to be an example somewhere that they have figured out a path forward on how to not double-pay this way, or is there any other good national— I'm just— I don't want to reinvent the wheel, and Portland loves to reinvent the wheel all the time.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-501", "start": 3517.597, "end": 3525.369, "text": "Do we know if there are cities that have figured out a way to not well, I guess my initial answer would be—.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-502", "start": 3525.369, "end": 3526.266, "text": "Would probably be no.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-503", "start": 3527.436, "end": 3533.941, "text": "And also, you know, I think that the cost relationship between a traditional— well, there's a couple factors at play.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-504", "start": 3534.326, "end": 3557.549, "text": "One, because that transition happened so long ago, I mean, 3 decades ago essentially, the scale of benefit payments, both because of smaller payrolls and lower expectations around long-term benefits, And frankly, probably not great math assumptions that were made in the '80s and '90s made it a less difficult lever to turn.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-505", "start": 3558.239, "end": 3561.049, "text": "So that's probably the biggest issue, biggest delta.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-506", "start": 3561.37, "end": 3566.122, "text": "I think the second really important thing is just the uniqueness of the levy funding model, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-507", "start": 3566.17, "end": 3574.407, "text": "That even those prior systems that made that kind of a transition didn't have the benefit of getting a dedicated property tax.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-508", "start": 3574.455, "end": 3591.653, "text": "And so they had a little different ability to sort of already be planning ahead for those long-term costs in a way that we just didn't as a city because we were, we were so reliant for, I don't know, 50 or 60 years on that existing property tax levy that is really one of a kind in the country.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-509", "start": 3591.909, "end": 3603.759, "text": "Okay, so it's like short of Phil Knight dropping a billion bucks and being like, here you go, we'll pay for it, based on the slide that has the different sort of options of potential models.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-510", "start": 3605.309, "end": 3609.231, "text": "Am I hearing you correctly that basically you think we are on the best path right now?", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-511", "start": 3610.363, "end": 3611.775, "text": "That is my assessment.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-512", "start": 3611.823, "end": 3617.68, "text": "I mean, certainly this has been something that's not a new conversation and something that we've been paying close attention to.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-513", "start": 3618.151, "end": 3640.312, "text": "And yeah, I mean, I think the viable alternative would be to accept the different risk profile around pension obligation bonds, which would, And I don't know that I have math handy at the moment, but the general assessment is we would probably be able to thin out some payments for the short term, kind of up until the peak.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-514", "start": 3640.874, "end": 3644.615, "text": "And the trade-off would be extending those payments down the road.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-515", "start": 3645.112, "end": 3646.525, "text": "And so that's viable.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-516", "start": 3646.975, "end": 3652.515, "text": "We just need to be eyes open that that's probably the trade-off is we're getting a little bit of short-term relief.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-517", "start": 3653.221, "end": 3660.3, "text": "And I would say a little bit, like, Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-518", "start": 3661.996, "end": 3664.662, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-519", "start": 3665.05, "end": 3667.374, "text": "I am last in the queue, so I got a few questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-520", "start": 3669.01, "end": 3673.941, "text": "The bell curve that's shown in slide 12, is it adjusted for inflation?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-521", "start": 3674.782, "end": 3676.48, "text": "That one is nominal.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-522", "start": 3676.884, "end": 3678.755, "text": "We decided not to throw too many charts at you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-523", "start": 3678.823, "end": 3679.953, "text": "I do have that chart in inflation-adjusted form.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-524", "start": 3680.11, "end": 3689.63, "text": "I mean, in terms— but it shows the— it has a similar curve to it.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-525", "start": 3689.63, "end": 3690.93, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-526", "start": 3690.93, "end": 3693.32, "text": "It's a more dramatic curve.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-527", "start": 3694.27, "end": 3700.35, "text": "It shows that in nominal terms that our costs don't level out back to today's level until 2055.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-528", "start": 3700.35, "end": 3703.63, "text": "So even though it peaks then, it's still above what we're currently at.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-529", "start": 3703.63, "end": 3704.23, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-530", "start": 3704.23, "end": 3705.65, "text": "Till 2055.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-531", "start": 3705.65, "end": 3707.05, "text": "I just think that's important to know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-532", "start": 3707.05, "end": 3716.149, "text": "In the 2006 ballot measure, in response to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney's question, you said that the ballot measure text said it would increase the tax in the short term but decrease it in the long term.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-533", "start": 3716.79, "end": 3718.923, "text": "In retrospect, was the short term till 2070?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-534", "start": 3719.757, "end": 3719.95, "text": "Is that—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-535", "start": 3719.95, "end": 3722.195, "text": "Because that's when you've said it, it seems to be.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-536", "start": 3723.43, "end": 3726.541, "text": "I have absolutely no idea what they meant by the short term.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-537", "start": 3726.717, "end": 3738.129, "text": "I wasn't here then, and I, I, and I don't know if there was additional explanation around what short term meant, or, or I don't even know If, if people had sort of done a projection of when that would happen.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-538", "start": 3738.34, "end": 3738.957, "text": "I'm sorry, that was—.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-539", "start": 3738.957, "end": 3750.665, "text": "With the knowledge we have now, would it be fair to say that, that, you know, if they could have seen into the future what, what increasing and decreasing tax time frames— you're talking about 2070, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-540", "start": 3751.633, "end": 3754.2, "text": "For 2070 for total closeout of the plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-541", "start": 3755.282, "end": 3755.459, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-542", "start": 3755.524, "end": 3755.863, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-543", "start": 3757.445, "end": 3767.169, "text": "Um, can you explain— we haven't really heard this for FPDR 1 and 2 versus 3, is there a difference in the benefits or is it just the finances?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-544", "start": 3767.281, "end": 3768.453, "text": "And if so, what are the differences?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-545", "start": 3769.046, "end": 3770.057, "text": "Yeah, that's a great question.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-546", "start": 3770.956, "end": 3771.855, "text": "There is a difference.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-547", "start": 3771.919, "end": 3773.556, "text": "There's a difference in the financing mechanism.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-548", "start": 3773.684, "end": 3775, "text": "You know, PERS is the prefunded.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-549", "start": 3775.048, "end": 3776.573, "text": "We've kind of beat on that horse.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-550", "start": 3777.391, "end": 3781.58, "text": "But there is a difference in the benefits, and I'd have to go and dig up for you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-551", "start": 3781.724, "end": 3798.131, "text": "But essentially, FPDR 2 members can get a maximum of $84,000 of their final pay if they work for 30 years or more as their pension, their final pay that doesn't include overtime.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-552", "start": 3798.822, "end": 3808.472, "text": "The formula in OPSERP, which is the 3rd tier of the PERS plan for public safety, which is what most of our folks are enrolled in, is I believe it is 2%.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-553", "start": 3808.536, "end": 3812.486, "text": "Boy, I'd have to— no, I don't wanna hold myself to that.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-554", "start": 3812.55, "end": 3812.775, "text": "It is less.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-555", "start": 3812.92, "end": 3813.128, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-556", "start": 3814.156, "end": 3814.333, "text": "It is.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-557", "start": 3814.542, "end": 3818.027, "text": "They get a little bit less out of— it's a lower percentage.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-558", "start": 3818.091, "end": 3820.387, "text": "I'd have to go look it up to be sure I'm not saying the wrong thing.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-559", "start": 3821.222, "end": 3826.603, "text": "But they are allowed to include overtime earnings to some degree in that final pay.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-560", "start": 3827.261, "end": 3837.154, "text": "So it's a very difficult— and then they have an IAP, an individual account program that the FPDR fund also contributes 9% of their pay into.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-561", "start": 3837.363, "end": 3839.659, "text": "And that is on top of what they're getting out of the ops fund.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-562", "start": 3839.74, "end": 3840.863, "text": "Or public safety plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-563", "start": 3841.457, "end": 3849.115, "text": "So we have never done, that I'm aware of at the city, a comparison of how those benefits line up.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-564", "start": 3849.388, "end": 3857.078, "text": "Milliman does a test to make sure that our plan is at least equal to or better than the PERS plan, and we pass that with flying colors every time we take it.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-565", "start": 3857.672, "end": 3863.612, "text": "But to tell you exactly, like, well, which plan is better, but they are definitely different benefits.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-566", "start": 3863.708, "end": 3866.004, "text": "I don't know if Jonas has anything to add.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-567", "start": 3866.084, "end": 3878.222, "text": "Is it possible to answer the question as to whether or not On net, it was a reduction when FPDR 3 was created in benefits, reduction in benefits?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-568", "start": 3878.463, "end": 3880.294, "text": "I mean, it's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-569", "start": 3881.048, "end": 3882.028, "text": "Is it possible?", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-570", "start": 3882.397, "end": 3883.248, "text": "Probably.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-571", "start": 3883.585, "end": 3885.657, "text": "It would be a challenge.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-572", "start": 3886.09, "end": 3889.928, "text": "We'd have to kind of— I'd have to kind of try to wrap my head around how we would do that lineup.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-573", "start": 3890.811, "end": 3905.606, "text": "I mean, I think one of the, The clear benefits of that was that, A, the long-term cost trajectory began to bend down, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-574", "start": 3905.654, "end": 3913.178, "text": "And so I think that was a clear— it's maybe hard to quantify, but that was a clear benefit.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-575", "start": 3913.675, "end": 3922.772, "text": "And then both the trajectory of cost and obviously moving to the prefunding model away from the current model was a benefit.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-576", "start": 3922.836, "end": 3928.822, "text": "But yeah, I think we'd have to do some thinking about the effort involved to do that kind of a comparative analysis.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-577", "start": 3929.015, "end": 3949.644, "text": "And as a pension, you know, policy person, I just want to point out the difficulty of comparing the PERS hybrid plan to the defined benefit FPDR plan, because the FPDR benefit is defined benefit, which means we have promised these people benefits and we will pay those benefits until the day they die, and then we'll pay their spouses until the day they die.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-578", "start": 3950.43, "end": 3952.149, "text": "And the PERS plan has a yeah.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-579", "start": 3952.294, "end": 3959.86, "text": "Has a defined contribution component in that IEP, which means that the member or the employee bears some risk.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-580", "start": 3960.343, "end": 3964.131, "text": "You know, the IEP, like maybe it goes up, maybe it goes down, it is what it is at the end of the day.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-581", "start": 3964.776, "end": 3968.986, "text": "That risk is on them instead of the employer for the IEP portion.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-582", "start": 3970.696, "end": 3977.699, "text": "So the hybrid plan, I mean, and actuaries can do that, they can price that in and they'll quantify basically that risk factor.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-583", "start": 3978.529, "end": 3979.523, "text": "So it can be done.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-584", "start": 3980.422, "end": 3985.699, "text": "But those are some of the complexities involved in saying definitively, is one of these better or worse than the others?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-585", "start": 3986.132, "end": 3993.558, "text": "And I did wanna say, I looked it up really quickly and the formula for OPSERP Public Safety is 1.8% times years of service.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-586", "start": 3993.991, "end": 4000.712, "text": "So at 25 years of service, you would get 45% of your final pay, plus you have whatever's in your IP.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-587", "start": 4000.808, "end": 4001.979, "text": "That's why it's a hybrid plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-588", "start": 4002.669, "end": 4005.636, "text": "At 25 years in our plan, you get 78% of your final pay.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-589", "start": 4005.765, "end": 4005.957, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-590", "start": 4007.383, "end": 4008.121, "text": "But there's no IEP.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-591", "start": 4008.97, "end": 4013.28, "text": "And again, our final pay doesn't include overtime, and PERS final pay does.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-592", "start": 4013.697, "end": 4018.761, "text": "So those are some of the, the wiggly differences that make straight comparison pretty hard.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-593", "start": 4019.226, "end": 4020.267, "text": "Yeah, that makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-594", "start": 4020.443, "end": 4026.549, "text": "I, I know that there's also how people observe and perceive, uh, changes as, as a positive or negative.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-595", "start": 4026.613, "end": 4033.792, "text": "That is hard to, um, for us to guess how each individual person last question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-596", "start": 4033.904, "end": 4042.125, "text": "In response to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, you said that the box and whiskers graph has uncertainty, and you mentioned due to general uncertainty around returns from PERS.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-597", "start": 4042.718, "end": 4048.807, "text": "I wanted to ask if there are two— about two other potential reasons, and if that adds to or changes uncertainty in any way.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-598", "start": 4049.368, "end": 4051.804, "text": "One is that we don't know how long people will live.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-599", "start": 4052.653, "end": 4057.973, "text": "Does the uncertainty around lifespan length create uncertainty as it goes further out?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-600", "start": 4058.021, "end": 4058.101, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-601", "start": 4059.626, "end": 4062.147, "text": "It does create uncertainty in a pay-as-you-go plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-602", "start": 4062.597, "end": 4065.198, "text": "So for the FPDR plan components, yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-603", "start": 4065.327, "end": 4072.183, "text": "I mean, it creates uncertainty in a prefunded plan too, because you have to put enough in to cover people's benefits until the day they die.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-604", "start": 4072.231, "end": 4072.937, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-605", "start": 4073.291, "end": 4075.314, "text": "So yes, there is uncertainty around that.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-606", "start": 4075.442, "end": 4079.585, "text": "It's much, much, much less uncertainty than around investment futures.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-607", "start": 4080.002, "end": 4083.647, "text": "Actuaries are— it kind of blows my mind, honestly, every single year.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-608", "start": 4083.872, "end": 4083.952, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-609", "start": 4084.177, "end": 4094.446, "text": "You know, we— this sounds very morbid, but we assign a probability of death to every single plan member every single year and a probability of retirement based on what our actuaries give us for the data.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-610", "start": 4095.088, "end": 4097.8, "text": "And of course, there's a lot of variability in individuals.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-611", "start": 4097.993, "end": 4099.838, "text": "I mean, that's the whole point of statistics.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-612", "start": 4100.159, "end": 4106.802, "text": "But on the overall level, pretty much the exact same number of people they tell us are going to die in a year die in a year.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-613", "start": 4107.043, "end": 4111.006, "text": "It's really— it's kind of the magic of— it's the magic of statistics.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-614", "start": 4111.359, "end": 4113.155, "text": "Now, can I promise you that that will continue?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-615", "start": 4113.236, "end": 4118.418, "text": "Like, if we have massive longevity, I mean, the actuaries do build in longevity increases.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-616", "start": 4118.931, "end": 4123.151, "text": "Like, they've seen that, wow, humans keep living longer and longer, so we're going to assume that continues.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-617", "start": 4123.263, "end": 4124.916, "text": "They actually build that into their models.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-618", "start": 4125.285, "end": 4131.59, "text": "So it does create uncertainty, but we've modeled out uncertainty fairly accurately in the past and have a lot of confidence.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-619", "start": 4131.654, "end": 4134.27, "text": "That is a great way to summarize what I just took a long time to say.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-620", "start": 4134.478, "end": 4134.671, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-621", "start": 4134.751, "end": 4134.992, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-622", "start": 4135.28, "end": 4137.767, "text": "I mean, actuaries are, y'all are a different breed.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-623", "start": 4137.864, "end": 4139.436, "text": "I just want to say the way that that was.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-624", "start": 4139.869, "end": 4140.126, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-625", "start": 4140.399, "end": 4150.273, "text": "But the, I guess the other thing is, does the size of the workforce make, create uncertainty?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-626", "start": 4150.417, "end": 4157.472, "text": "If the size of, like, let's say there's way more or way fewer firefighters or police officers in the future, would that not also create uncertainty?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-627", "start": 4157.584, "end": 4159.369, "text": "That is a really great question.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-628", "start": 4159.981, "end": 4165.229, "text": "All of this assumes the size of the sworn workforce doesn't change a bit, not an iota.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-629", "start": 4165.873, "end": 4173.8, "text": "If we get into, council decides to add 100 new police officer positions or take away 100 firefighter positions, All these numbers have to change.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-630", "start": 4173.8, "end": 4174.44, "text": "They're all—.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-631", "start": 4174.44, "end": 4175.78, "text": "They just hold that static.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-632", "start": 4175.78, "end": 4179.23, "text": "They don't even try to factor in that the size may change.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-633", "start": 4179.96, "end": 4180.16, "text": "Got it.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-634", "start": 4180.16, "end": 4183.34, "text": "And it's, it's, um, it's, it's a, it's a direct relation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-635", "start": 4183.34, "end": 4184.12, "text": "It's not inverse, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-636", "start": 4184.12, "end": 4185.19, "text": "If it goes up, it goes up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-637", "start": 4185.52, "end": 4188.08, "text": "Yeah, I mean, yeah, like how much and, you know, all of that.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-638", "start": 4188.08, "end": 4192.14, "text": "But yeah, you hire more people, it's going to cost us more, and you hire fewer people, it'll cost us less.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-639", "start": 4192.14, "end": 4193.6, "text": "Yes, I can confidently say that.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-640", "start": 4193.6, "end": 4198.98, "text": "And I would just also acknowledge that's true of all, of all systems, not just the, not just the sworn police system, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-641", "start": 4198.98, "end": 4203.292, "text": "But any system at the city any employee is a member of PERS.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-642", "start": 4203.389, "end": 4206.666, "text": "And so that's true of any circumstance where we're making those personnel changes up or down.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-643", "start": 4207.26, "end": 4207.565, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-644", "start": 4208.385, "end": 4208.578, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-645", "start": 4208.626, "end": 4211.514, "text": "I'll pass it to Councilor Green and then we're gonna welcome our last presenter up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-646", "start": 4213.66, "end": 4213.821, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-647", "start": 4213.918, "end": 4221.536, "text": "Just real quick on that, you've kind of piqued my interest on that question, Chair Kanal, just to make sure I fully understand this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-648", "start": 4221.617, "end": 4229.873, "text": "So the source of all 3 tranches of FPDR Payments 1, 2, and 3, that, that all comes from the FPDR levy?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-649", "start": 4230.37, "end": 4230.515, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-650", "start": 4231.045, "end": 4241.753, "text": "Okay, so even if we would be hiring more police officers, for, for example, and they'd be under FPDR 3, it still comes from the same bucket of money that pays for all 3 of them?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-651", "start": 4242.251, "end": 4242.491, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-652", "start": 4242.829, "end": 4242.957, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-653", "start": 4243.005, "end": 4247.854, "text": "So if we were to contemplate pre-funding and all that, that would— okay, I think I've got it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-654", "start": 4248.143, "end": 4248.303, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-655", "start": 4248.464, "end": 4249.09, "text": "All right, thanks.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-656", "start": 4249.636, "end": 4250.47, "text": "Great, thank you.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-657", "start": 4250.92, "end": 4251.097, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-658", "start": 4251.161, "end": 4255.207, "text": "I see Councilor Novick also got in the queue, so we'll, we'll wrap up after him and go to the next presenter.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-659", "start": 4255.287, "end": 4255.399, "text": "Sorry.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-660", "start": 4256.765, "end": 4267.416, "text": "So Councilor Kanal, for a minute there I was worried that you were going to propose a Logan's Run-style mandatory death date idea in order to eliminate the uncertainty of people's death.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-661", "start": 4267.693, "end": 4270.675, "text": "But I'm glad to hear that the actuaries have taken care of that for us.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-662", "start": 4272.58, "end": 4276.546, "text": "Councilor Novick, you would enjoy the morbid humor that exists at a pension plan office.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-663", "start": 4276.982, "end": 4278.675, "text": "I'm looking forward to hearing more of it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-664", "start": 4280.865, "end": 4281.222, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-665", "start": 4281.368, "end": 4290.387, "text": "All right, next up we're going to welcome, and he's online, David Drain, who is is the Principal Officer for State Fiscal Policy Project at the Pew Charitable Trusts.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-666", "start": 4290.451, "end": 4293.449, "text": "Thank you so much for being here, David, and please take it away.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-667", "start": 4294.796, "end": 4295.245, "text": "My pleasure.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-668", "start": 4295.485, "end": 4300.808, "text": "It's always an exciting opportunity to share our research and our work.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-669", "start": 4301.914, "end": 4302.684, "text": "My name is David Drain.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-670", "start": 4302.86, "end": 4306.115, "text": "I'm going to try to get the full slideshow presentation.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-671", "start": 4306.163, "end": 4306.388, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-672", "start": 4306.436, "end": 4320.642, "text": "So yeah, my name is David Drain with the Pew Charitable Trusts, a nonpartisan nonprofit that works on a wide range of public policy issues, but with a particular focus on topics that affect state and local governments on fiscal health, economic policy, and government performance.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-673", "start": 4322.306, "end": 4330.742, "text": "And we've been working for, you know, since 2007 in our first report on the funding and policies around managing liabilities for public pension plans.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-674", "start": 4331.418, "end": 4342.762, "text": "And the through line for our work has been the importance and value of actual prefunding and making sure that consistent and adequate funding is available to support the pension promises made to workers and retirees.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-675", "start": 4343.673, "end": 4359.726, "text": "In addition to us, you know, groups like the Government Finance Officers Association and the National Association of State Retirement Administrators, you know, likewise have identified the importance of actual prefunding to the sustainability and affordability and long-term success of public retirement benefits.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-676", "start": 4361.478, "end": 4367.853, "text": "And just to talk about what our data shows on the state level, we've seen significant improvement over time at states achieving this.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-677", "start": 4368.704, "end": 4374.405, "text": "When you go back to 2003, We saw the majority of states were falling short of actual contribution benchmarks.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-678", "start": 4375.27, "end": 4393.509, "text": "Now in 2023, the majority of states are achieving this, and the contributions coming into public pension plans, both from the states as well as the local governments participating in public pension plans like Portland with OPERS, are more than sufficient to pay down a portion of the pension debt that these plans have accumulated.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-679", "start": 4394.807, "end": 4399.422, "text": "So then this gets to the question of how does this apply to Portland and FPDR?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-680", "start": 4400.08, "end": 4402.36, "text": "You've heard a bunch about it.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-681", "start": 4403.003, "end": 4404.496, "text": "Paygo since inception.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-682", "start": 4405.251, "end": 4407.5, "text": "Current property tax receipts are paying for benefits today.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-683", "start": 4408.464, "end": 4416.093, "text": "But as of 2006, newly hired police officers and firefighters in the prefunded OPSRP plan for their pension benefits.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-684", "start": 4417.121, "end": 4439.16, "text": "And so then the question I think is, at least we see it, is how can Portland most effectively sustainably manage the cost of their legacy liabilities, given that they've got an actuarial prefunding approach for On the topic of why prefund and why, you know, we and others recommend this as kind of a general best practice: costs less over the long term.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-685", "start": 4439.16, "end": 4444.54, "text": "You can set money aside today and have it generate investment returns for when those benefit checks come due.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-686", "start": 4444.66, "end": 4446.88, "text": "Supports intergenerational equity.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-687", "start": 4446.88, "end": 4456.22, "text": "Right now, Portland taxpayers are paying for service delivered years ago, and the prefunding approach lets you pay for both the salary and the benefits of the people doing public service today.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-688", "start": 4456.22, "end": 4456.26, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-689", "start": 4456.26, "end": 4456.3, "text": "Councilmember Herbold.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-690", "start": 4458.08, "end": 4468.94, "text": "And it provides a cushion for both employer and employee, helping reduce cash flow risk, because right now retirees are dependent on Portland's property tax receipts being sufficient to pay their benefit checks in the year they come due.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-691", "start": 4469.71, "end": 4478.51, "text": "But also, prefunding has costs, and it costs more to save money today because you're going to, in those initial years, pay above that pay-go rate.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-692", "start": 4478.51, "end": 4482.77, "text": "And then it exposes the sponsor, in this case Portland, to volatility from investment markets.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-693", "start": 4482.77, "end": 4483.01, "text": "So we're going to be looking at a couple of different options.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-694", "start": 4483.689, "end": 4485.472, "text": "You're investing, you're hoping that money will grow.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-695", "start": 4485.713, "end": 4491.768, "text": "Exactly how much it grows and, you know, what's the trajectory will— is uncertain and will depend on what markets do.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-696", "start": 4493.036, "end": 4497.855, "text": "So I think from our research, from our recommendations, Portland would be better off today if they'd prefunded from the start.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-697", "start": 4497.919, "end": 4501.902, "text": "I think that's, you know, something that has been said a bunch.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-698", "start": 4502.721, "end": 4503.331, "text": "It's not clear.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-699", "start": 4503.605, "end": 4508.937, "text": "And then the question is, what information would help the council and stakeholders make a decision about this?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-700", "start": 4509.001, "end": 4509.419, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-701", "start": 4509.699, "end": 4510.825, "text": "But what, what should be done now?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-702", "start": 4512.446, "end": 4527.855, "text": "And so I think we would talk, you know, we recommend for questions like this where there's uncertain trade-offs and, you know, a decision about what's best over the short term, the long term, and for Portland's needs, using forward-looking analysis.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-703", "start": 4528.709, "end": 4530.095, "text": "What are the costs?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-704", "start": 4530.159, "end": 4532.39, "text": "What are the benefit payments for pre-funded plan?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-705", "start": 4532.439, "end": 4535.472, "text": "What are the funding levels over time across a range of investment scenarios?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-706", "start": 4535.521, "end": 4535.652, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-707", "start": 4536.771, "end": 4541.053, "text": "And the reason we emphasize forward-looking estimates is that your point-in-time estimate doesn't tell you you're on the right track.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-708", "start": 4541.215, "end": 4549.807, "text": "And so having a forward-looking assessment helps you understand both whether current policies lead to acceptable or unacceptable outcomes, and then would an alternative be better.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-709", "start": 4552.487, "end": 4565.172, "text": "One thing that we really wanted to cite as we're, you know, kind of sharing, sharing some comments is that the levity adequacy analysis that Milliman does for FPDR is is an example of what we think is a best practice.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-710", "start": 4565.766, "end": 4572.223, "text": "Having these projections, having them incorporate investment and other risks, and giving a forward-looking analysis.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-711", "start": 4572.769, "end": 4575.933, "text": "So wanted to commend that practice as something we recommend generally.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-712", "start": 4576.431, "end": 4584.526, "text": "We've seen greater usage in state and local governments, and Portland's example is an example of what we think should be done.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-713", "start": 4585.827, "end": 4590.709, "text": "I think what would be helpful to these conversations is having similar analysis of different prefunding approaches.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-714", "start": 4591.241, "end": 4604.193, "text": "So if instead of the current pay-go approach, you had either full prefunding or partial prefunding as an alternative model, what would that look like in terms of costs for the next 10 years, next 20 years, and next 70 years?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-715", "start": 4607.507, "end": 4608.535, "text": "You saw this chart already.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-716", "start": 4609.306, "end": 4615.959, "text": "So I'll just quickly note that the benefit payments on a nominal basis peak in 2038.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-717", "start": 4616.507, "end": 4625.503, "text": "At that point, the cost of those benefit payments from you know, Portland's property tax receipts is going to go down in nominal terms, let alone in real terms.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-718", "start": 4626.132, "end": 4639.127, "text": "But also that in 2063, you know, property taxes will be required to pay, you know, $100 million plus to pay for benefit payments once again for service done, you know, years and decades prior.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-719", "start": 4641.882, "end": 4643.707, "text": "And then will the current levy be adequate?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-720", "start": 4643.756, "end": 4649.114, "text": "It's an important question, and I think one that the Milliman's approach offers a useful lens on.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-721", "start": 4649.371, "end": 4652.145, "text": "I think we'd echo what, you know, was said in a prior presentation.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-722", "start": 4653.316, "end": 4656.571, "text": "You know, they did, you know, a number of economic scenarios.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-723", "start": 4656.844, "end": 4660.869, "text": "They asked the question of, in what share of these scenarios do we have the bad outcome?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-724", "start": 4660.933, "end": 4665.728, "text": "Do we exceed our $2.8 mils on real market value?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-725", "start": 4666.29, "end": 4670.283, "text": "And found that it exceeded that cap in less than 2% of scenarios.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-726", "start": 4670.796, "end": 4679.213, "text": "And even in those scenarios, it's not, you know, if those So obviously that's good news.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-727", "start": 4681.17, "end": 4689.792, "text": "And then the question is, is there something that Portland could consider that would be better than this approach for, you know, long-term fiscal needs?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-728", "start": 4691.587, "end": 4699.365, "text": "And just, I'll finish out with an example of a state that went through a similar process, Indiana, for their teacher retirement system, their TRS plan.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-729", "start": 4700.721, "end": 4710.754, "text": "So as mentioned, you know, past presentation, you know, the— by the '80s, the bulk of public plans had transitioned to prefunding.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-730", "start": 4712.082, "end": 4718.976, "text": "But Indiana for TRS was one of the late adopters and was still pay-as-you-go in 1995.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-731", "start": 4719.105, "end": 4725.933, "text": "And when they were looking at the challenge ahead of them, they did not feel that they could immediately switch to making the full actuarial contribution.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-732", "start": 4726.974, "end": 4735.445, "text": "That, that was going to be a cost burden higher than they could manage, but they still felt the need and the benefit of moving towards actuarial prefunding.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-733", "start": 4736.263, "end": 4738.718, "text": "And so they split the TRS into 2 accounts.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-734", "start": 4739.584, "end": 4742.632, "text": "The 1996 account was for new hires after that point.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-735", "start": 4742.713, "end": 4746.916, "text": "It was going to be prefunded and would follow a traditional actuarial funding path.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-736", "start": 4747.59, "end": 4755.387, "text": "And the pre-'96 account would be largely pay-go initially, but with a goal of getting towards actuarial funding and prefunding for that as well.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-737", "start": 4755.451, "end": 4755.515, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-738", "start": 4756.318, "end": 4771.154, "text": "And in particular, they set aside a $425 million stabilization fund at that initial point to both smooth out, you know, the cash flow challenges of making benefit payments, to kind of cap the amount that was required from the general fund, and then to provide a base for eventual prefunding.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-739", "start": 4771.427, "end": 4785.412, "text": "And as you can see, their plan trajectory was to switch to, you know, full prefunding and relying on the assets in their In their trust in 2030, 2038.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-740", "start": 4786.504, "end": 4804.051, "text": "And then in terms of how they've done, looking at actual data, we see that they're able to get their 1996 plan to a high-funded ratio, you know, about 2006, and kept it fluctuating based on investment market returns and other actual factors since.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-741", "start": 4804.725, "end": 4822.485, "text": "And it took a while before they were able to see similar progress with the pre-1996 plan, but were likewise, you know, in recent years able to set aside extra volatile revenues when they had it, put aside a portion of lottery funds, and then use the available base that they had created to get it to close to 80% funded.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-742", "start": 4824.521, "end": 4828.362, "text": "So just to quickly wrap up, and then excited to have the opportunity to answer any questions.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-743", "start": 4829.026, "end": 4832.818, "text": "Actuarial funding is an agreed-upon best practice for paying for promised pension benefits.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-744", "start": 4834.743, "end": 4836.007, "text": "Portland is doing that for new hires.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-745", "start": 4836.348, "end": 4840.546, "text": "And so then the question is, is there a better approach to manage the existing legacy liabilities?", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-746", "start": 4841.654, "end": 4842.521, "text": "Than the current PAYGO.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-747", "start": 4844.064, "end": 4849.559, "text": "There's trade-offs, there's costs of doing one way or the other, and ultimately good decisions require good data.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-748", "start": 4849.607, "end": 4858.495, "text": "And so I think the next step, if the council and the committee are interested in exploring this, would be to get actual analysis that compares the short-term.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-749", "start": 4858.56, "end": 4870.259, "text": "And, you know, I think kind of reiterating from the previous conversation, I think a number of people in the pension field, including myself, when we say short-term, we're talking over, you know, many years.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-750", "start": 4871.598, "end": 4879.94, "text": "And long-term funding costs for both the existing approach, potentially a full prefunding approach and switching to an actual contribution rate.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-751", "start": 4880.662, "end": 4890.817, "text": "We know that there's kind of preliminary estimates from the Milliman valuation, and then maybe some blended approaches that try to mimic what Indiana did in terms of having something in between.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-752", "start": 4892.053, "end": 4896.769, "text": "And then ultimately, state and local governments have a range of models to consider when they're making decisions about pensions.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-753", "start": 4897.55, "end": 4911.826, "text": "And the goals, you know, there's not a one-size-fits-all policy, certainly not from our research, but finding something that matches Portland's policy needs, policy objectives, and fiscal situation is what we would recommend that City Council look to.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-754", "start": 4913.05, "end": 4916.957, "text": "So once again, appreciate the opportunity to share our research and happy to answer any questions.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-755", "start": 4918.889, "end": 4919.926, "text": "Thank you so much, David.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-756", "start": 4920.914, "end": 4924.867, "text": "I'll open the queue back up, see if anyone has questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-757", "start": 4925.05, "end": 4932.922, "text": "I'll also note that, um, while we're going to start with questions for David, we can also start to ask questions of other, uh, folks, uh, in a minute.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-758", "start": 4933.84, "end": 4937.025, "text": "Um, but I'll, I'll just start with David and then we'll do public testimony in between.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-759", "start": 4937.124, "end": 4938.538, "text": "There's a couple folks signed up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-760", "start": 4941.089, "end": 4943.168, "text": "Seeing no one in the queue just yet.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-761", "start": 4944.054, "end": 4947.857, "text": "And David, we might have questions for you after testimony, so, uh, I'll hang out there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-762", "start": 4947.921, "end": 4949.211, "text": "But let's go to Councilor Green first.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-763", "start": 4950.41, "end": 4951.017, "text": "Thank you, David.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-764", "start": 4951.066, "end": 4951.985, "text": "I appreciate it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-765", "start": 4952.116, "end": 4965.7, "text": "Um, obviously it's a huge challenge and and obviously every jurisdiction has its own peculiarities that then would influence the myriad cost and benefit tests that would need to be applied.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-766", "start": 4966.439, "end": 4990.085, "text": "I'm kind of curious, and I don't know how familiar you are with Portland or the Multnomah County tax structure, but one of the things I think through is when you're thinking about this intergenerational trade-off problem, and you're thinking about how to pay for a prefunding, one question— well, it's like, okay, if you have a gift of manna from heaven or something like that, great, that's awesome.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-767", "start": 4990.36, "end": 4991.444, "text": "Like, if there's a windfall, great.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-768", "start": 4992.14, "end": 4993.014, "text": "But what if you don't?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-769", "start": 4993.63, "end": 4997.375, "text": "Would you seek to think about another financing strategy or tax strategy?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-770", "start": 4998.141, "end": 5003.053, "text": "And then you would ask the question, how does that interact with the current tax strategies?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-771", "start": 5003.101, "end": 5011.742, "text": "Because where I'm going with this is the entire obligation for this falls on the property tax structure.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-772", "start": 5011.951, "end": 5020.895, "text": "And we can have a debate about whether or not homeowners should pay for that entirely or not, but that's, that's only 53% of households in the city of Portland.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-773", "start": 5021.264, "end": 5034.754, "text": "And also, our property tax obligation is largely arbitrary and wildly inequitable, and it's just based upon where your house was and when it was built, at what point in time and which zip code in the city of Portland.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-774", "start": 5036.325, "end": 5041.202, "text": "So with all that in mind and thinking about— I guess where I'm— let me get to my point.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-775", "start": 5041.718, "end": 5070.11, "text": "Have you ever encountered anything like that where a jurisdiction has this really weird qualitative problem with its tax structure and it's had to think about not only whether you should prefund or not through time, through generational equity, but also thinking about opportunities to change the I mean, when we've been part of conversations, you know, we've worked with a couple local—.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-776", "start": 5070.11, "end": 5075.42, "text": "A lot of our work focuses on states, but we work with a number of local jurisdictions thinking about their pension issues.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-777", "start": 5075.59, "end": 5090.956, "text": "And who pays and what's the most fair way of allocating costs, you know, is not something that, you know, we can answer with pure numbers, but it's certainly something that people within you know, these stakeholder and community groups have 100% thought hard about.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-778", "start": 5091.662, "end": 5113.021, "text": "I'd also add that I think we've, in some of the places that we've watched, you know, undergo, you know, trying to reform the funding and managing their pension liabilities, you know, we've certainly seen examples of them going to the State House to, you know, ask for changes in how they can raise revenues and the funds they can bring to bear to the challenge.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-779", "start": 5113.728, "end": 5120.718, "text": "On the financing side of things, you know, pension obligation bonds, you know, were mentioned in the previous presentation.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-780", "start": 5121.394, "end": 5123.101, "text": "But then kind of there's a dual challenge.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-781", "start": 5123.326, "end": 5125.58, "text": "One is simply, you know, they add risk.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-782", "start": 5125.822, "end": 5129.557, "text": "They add your— the goal is to borrow low and invest high.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-783", "start": 5129.992, "end": 5137.031, "text": "If the borrowing costs are higher than you want and investment returns are lower than you want, you can end up falling short of where you want to be.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-784", "start": 5137.742, "end": 5155.466, "text": "And you know, at a minimum, kind of having, having an actual stress test of what is the likelihood of ending up positive, and if you end up negative, is that going to lead to an unacceptable outcome for your community, is, is a necessary first step.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-785", "start": 5156.188, "end": 5181.488, "text": "It's also, you know, if you have an existing pension trust that you are investing and kind of a robust setup for that, it is easier to then take the money from a pension obligation bond proceed and have It's, I think, adds a technical challenge beyond the risk challenge if you're trying to, you know, build that out while issuing a bond.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-786", "start": 5187.199, "end": 5187.457, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-787", "start": 5187.538, "end": 5190.346, "text": "That's helpful for us to think through.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-788", "start": 5190.604, "end": 5191.491, "text": "Appreciate that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-789", "start": 5193.024, "end": 5193.799, "text": "Thanks, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-790", "start": 5194.362, "end": 5197.098, "text": "Um, Rebecca, can we please call up our testifiers?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-791", "start": 5198.802, "end": 5206.368, "text": "Uh, we have Kevin Matches who's coming to the table and Justin Holt who's online.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-792", "start": 5214.04, "end": 5216.072, "text": "And Kevin, you can go ahead when you're ready.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-793", "start": 5219.857, "end": 5220.163, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-794", "start": 5220.42, "end": 5221.609, "text": "My name is Kevin Matches.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-795", "start": 5221.866, "end": 5223.087, "text": "I'm a CFA charterholder.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-796", "start": 5223.231, "end": 5227.232, "text": "I've submitted some written testimony that I just don't have time to get into everything.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-797", "start": 5227.489, "end": 5232.285, "text": "I'm just trying to address the presentation from staff that was just given here.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-798", "start": 5232.655, "end": 5235.039, "text": "You know, they laid out these 4, you know, what they called options.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-799", "start": 5236.776, "end": 5240.2, "text": "You know, just taking them at face value, I don't really know where they come from.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-800", "start": 5240.553, "end": 5247.222, "text": "I don't think they're consistent with what the actuary's analysis has been or analysis that I've I've done and submitted as written testimony.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-801", "start": 5247.96, "end": 5251.149, "text": "Uh, I, as written, I wouldn't support any of those 4 options.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-802", "start": 5252.046, "end": 5265.731, "text": "Um, but to get into the, um, you know, some questions that came up here, you know, your, your staff describes each dollar of levy revenue that you get as a benefit to you as stewards of the city.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-803", "start": 5266.805, "end": 5272.022, "text": "You know, the problem here is that each dollar of levy revenue is a dollar of cost It's a lot of costs for taxpayers.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-804", "start": 5273.556, "end": 5274.585, "text": "It doesn't come from nowhere.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-805", "start": 5276.7, "end": 5279.266, "text": "You asked why was the plan changed in 2006.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-806", "start": 5279.944, "end": 5280.735, "text": "There are 2 main areas.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-807", "start": 5281.09, "end": 5283.237, "text": "First was governance around disability.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-808", "start": 5284.128, "end": 5286.528, "text": "Second was a projected financial crisis.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-809", "start": 5288.041, "end": 5292.937, "text": "I worked with the city archivist to find that analysis from the actuary.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-810", "start": 5293.44, "end": 5297.15, "text": "Yeah, we were projected to breach that cap.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-811", "start": 5298.227, "end": 5305.553, "text": "The only alternative revenue source anyone has identified thus far is the general fund.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-812", "start": 5306.356, "end": 5308.637, "text": "That's where you'd have to go if you were to breach that cap.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-813", "start": 5311.05, "end": 5313.956, "text": "Why did it— first of all, did it cut benefits?", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-814", "start": 5314.005, "end": 5315.28, "text": "Yes, it did cut benefits.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-815", "start": 5316.798, "end": 5316.927, "text": "Why?", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-816", "start": 5317.541, "end": 5319.479, "text": "Because only new hires were impacted.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-817", "start": 5320.37, "end": 5322.759, "text": "Unions only represent current members.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-818", "start": 5322.874, "end": 5323.747, "text": "That's who they're elected by.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-819", "start": 5323.84, "end": 5324.003, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-820", "start": 5324.361, "end": 5325.877, "text": "Not hypothetical future members.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-821", "start": 5326.562, "end": 5328.045, "text": "They were the ones that took the benefit cut.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-822", "start": 5330.14, "end": 5332.992, "text": "Current members took no cuts as a result of that '06 reform.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-823", "start": 5333.958, "end": 5339.313, "text": "The actuary in '06 recommended that members contribute to their own retirement, but that never happened.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-824", "start": 5342.06, "end": 5345.585, "text": "What's the difference between what Portland does and what other plans in the United States do?", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-825", "start": 5346.636, "end": 5347.882, "text": "Negative amortization.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-826", "start": 5348.965, "end": 5356.145, "text": "Negative amortization occurs because you have pension normal costs, the cost of an active member completing a year of service, a firefighter putting out fires.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-827", "start": 5358.705, "end": 5364.086, "text": "It's like taking a vacation in Italy one year and putting it on your credit card, then the next year to Spain, and on and on.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-828", "start": 5366.112, "end": 5369.789, "text": "Then you have pension interest costs, just like interest on your credit card.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-829", "start": 5371.28, "end": 5372.922, "text": "Contributions are how you pay for all of that.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-830", "start": 5373.55, "end": 5376.528, "text": "The contributions today are not sufficient to cover those costs.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-831", "start": 5376.689, "end": 5384.012, "text": "You engage in negative amortization each year that goes by, uh, as the actuary's assumptions play out the unfunded liability grows.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-832", "start": 5385.332, "end": 5387.667, "text": "It doesn't stabilize, it doesn't shrink, it grows each year.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-833", "start": 5388.859, "end": 5392.819, "text": "You just saw in the Pew presentation a metric called the funded ratio.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-834", "start": 5393.141, "end": 5398.113, "text": "In case anyone is still unaware, the pension plan run by the City of Portland is at 0% right now.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-835", "start": 5400.918, "end": 5401.381, "text": "I'm out of time.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-836", "start": 5401.45, "end": 5402.102, "text": "Thank you very much.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-837", "start": 5404.505, "end": 5405.109, "text": "Thank you, Kevin.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-838", "start": 5405.256, "end": 5411.404, "text": "I note the written testimony is available We have our other person online from not just you, but a couple other folks as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-839", "start": 5416.46, "end": 5417.753, "text": "We have our other person online.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-840", "start": 5418.659, "end": 5419.403, "text": "Justin Holt.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-841", "start": 5421.328, "end": 5423.124, "text": "Yes, can you hear me?", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-842", "start": 5423.366, "end": 5423.948, "text": "We can.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-843", "start": 5424.013, "end": 5424.563, "text": "You can go ahead.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-844", "start": 5426.36, "end": 5427.213, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-845", "start": 5427.937, "end": 5433.265, "text": "So just to start with, I am a private citizen of Portland.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-846", "start": 5433.378, "end": 5434.36, "text": "I live in District 3.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-847", "start": 5434.601, "end": 5457.373, "text": "I was raised here in Portland, and I'm contributing to this because 15 15 years ago, I joined the New York City Mayor's Office on a special task group to, as a policy contributor, to help shore up their then underfunded pension systems and try to better safeguard them for the future.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-848", "start": 5457.438, "end": 5467.008, "text": "In that capacity, I sat as an ex officio investment trustee, voting trustee on those systems.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-849", "start": 5468.116, "end": 5500.455, "text": "One thing I learned in the course of that is that that cities and pension systems, you know, the vital services that cities provide to the taxpayers and pension beneficiaries, it can become an uncomfortable, I guess, trade-off between the two across the economic cycle when things become a little bit more challenging in the economy.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-850", "start": 5500.791, "end": 5512.509, "text": "And, you know, a big burden that those pension systems were having to go through was reducing the benefits of new beneficiaries into the system.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-851", "start": 5513.087, "end": 5517.928, "text": "So this topic of generational equity has come up multiple times.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-852", "start": 5518.04, "end": 5529.469, "text": "And, you know, this outcome of lower pension beneficiary classes was, you know, could have been avoided with a bit more upfront planning and foresight.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-853", "start": 5530.77, "end": 5536.344, "text": "And I think that this proposal that Kevin is providing is a good step in that direction.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-854", "start": 5536.408, "end": 5554.912, "text": "It will help, you know, the best way to safeguard a pension for all generations is to have it funded, ideally well-funded, but, you know, just to get the ball rolling and funding it in the first place will really safeguard these pension benefits for future generations.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-855", "start": 5554.96, "end": 5555.329, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-856", "start": 5556.04, "end": 5557.996, "text": "Younger generations in this.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-857", "start": 5558.319, "end": 5576.607, "text": "And this is, you know, as well as help safeguard the vital services that, you know, taxpayers in the city rely on, such as parks and, you know, public sanitation and first responders.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-858", "start": 5577.54, "end": 5588.357, "text": "So yeah, I just contributed to this because are giving testimony because I think that the proposed, uh, the proposal by Kevin is a good step in the right direction.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-859", "start": 5588.615, "end": 5590.756, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-860", "start": 5593.381, "end": 5593.751, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-861", "start": 5597.551, "end": 5599.474, "text": "Uh, that was to conclude testimony.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-862", "start": 5600.786, "end": 5602.892, "text": "Yes, we had one other person to register.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-863", "start": 5605.572, "end": 5607.83, "text": "He's coming up and, uh, say your name for the for the record.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-864", "start": 5612.261, "end": 5612.497, "text": "Hey, y'all.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-865", "start": 5612.615, "end": 5613.442, "text": "My name is Dan Krollowitz.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-866", "start": 5614.6, "end": 5618.954, "text": "I've been doing some work on this and trying to report on kind of both sides of this issue.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-867", "start": 5619.596, "end": 5632.515, "text": "The main question I actually have on behalf of the folks who are here who are actually experts on this, it seems to me that the prefunding decision can be made at any time, but there are risks with prefunding.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-868", "start": 5632.949, "end": 5633.81, "text": "We want to make sure thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-869", "start": 5633.858, "end": 5634.644, "text": "I have a question for the city attorney.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-870", "start": 5634.708, "end": 5641.507, "text": "You mentioned earlier that the interest that we get, if we do prefund, we make certain interest rate or certain return rate on what we prefund.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-871", "start": 5642.005, "end": 5645.084, "text": "My question is, is there a best time to do that?", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-872", "start": 5645.164, "end": 5654.305, "text": "If now is not the best time to do that, is there a best time to do that so that we can be sure that when we are making that decision, we can get those returns?", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-873", "start": 5654.754, "end": 5667.25, "text": "And also, if, you know, if we just take the historical return rate on yes.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-874", "start": 5667.702, "end": 5676.234, "text": "If we miss that on any given year, would that then put extra strain on the general fund or, you know, make it so that we can't actually do that?", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-875", "start": 5676.282, "end": 5686.807, "text": "So basically, I want to ask the question to the experts here of if now is not the right time to prefund, when would be the right time and how do we kind of make that decision?", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-876", "start": 5687.299, "end": 5691.546, "text": "I would love to understand a little bit more from the people who have studied this more than I have.", "speaker": "Dan Krollowitz" }, { "id": "cue-877", "start": 5697.216, "end": 5698.318, "text": "That concludes testimony.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-878", "start": 5699.145, "end": 5699.696, "text": "Thank you, everyone.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-879", "start": 5700.198, "end": 5702.548, "text": "I'm now just going to open up the queue in general.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-880", "start": 5702.646, "end": 5705.547, "text": "I did want to flag— so the written testimony has been referenced.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-881", "start": 5705.627, "end": 5706.787, "text": "You can all find that online.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-882", "start": 5707.318, "end": 5714.782, "text": "One other note that I wanted to put into this is that last year in August, there was a report yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-883", "start": 5714.863, "end": 5723.584, "text": "There was a report which came out from the Portland Central City Task Force called Strengthening Portland's Future: Options to Address Economic, Fiscal, and Service-Related Challenges in Portland, Oregon.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-884", "start": 5723.681, "end": 5732.644, "text": "It had 20 recommendations in it, and number 14 of those recommendations was prefund the city's legacy police and fire pension program.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-885", "start": 5732.772, "end": 5734.314, "text": "And I think that's worth looking at.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-886", "start": 5734.523, "end": 5735.567, "text": "It's available online as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-887", "start": 5735.663, "end": 5738.876, "text": "I'll try to make sure it gets connected to this agenda item so you can read it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-888", "start": 5739.342, "end": 5742.795, "text": "Obviously Metro Chamber involved in that pretty significantly.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-889", "start": 5743.55, "end": 5756.861, "text": "So there's a lot of folks from a lot of different backgrounds who are interested in this, and I hope the next time— there was an availability concern this time, but I hope next time we're able to talk about this, we have someone who's affiliated with that who can come and present as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-890", "start": 5757.904, "end": 5759.317, "text": "With that, I'm going to open up the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-891", "start": 5759.414, "end": 5763.685, "text": "Please feel free to ask questions as well as just give opinions, and I'll start with Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-892", "start": 5764.471, "end": 5765.965, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "David Drain" }, { "id": "cue-893", "start": 5766.077, "end": 5770.634, "text": "I don't mean to monopolize conversation, but if folks want me to yield, I can.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-894", "start": 5770.746, "end": 5774.898, "text": "Um, I was going to make that kind of point.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-895", "start": 5774.978, "end": 5784.902, "text": "I want to piggyback on what you were just saying, Chair, about the, the broad conversation about affordability and about, um, whether or not people stay in Multnomah County.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-896", "start": 5785.559, "end": 5796.652, "text": "That's been the topic, that central topic conversation of the Central City Task Force, the Prosperity Council, um, basically any I think we need to do a better analysis on economic competitiveness in the city of Portland.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-897", "start": 5796.717, "end": 5824.255, "text": "And so if we're going to think about people leaving because they might pay a marginal tax on, you know, incomes above $125,000 or more, a couple hundred dollars a year, then we should also be very concerned about a situation where property taxpayers are going to see their property tax burden for FPDR grow from like a third to to 40% of their property tax bill over a decade.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-898", "start": 5826.505, "end": 5832.713, "text": "And if it is true that those folks are leaving and we might have fewer payers, the obligation doesn't go away.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-899", "start": 5832.794, "end": 5840.037, "text": "And so that means the need to spread the levy across— I think what I'm saying is you get higher to that $280 million limit.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-900", "start": 5840.617, "end": 5844.547, "text": "And so you start to spread the fixed cost of this pension obligation over fewer payers.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-901", "start": 5845.459, "end": 5856.952, "text": "And that will then enhance a doom loop cycle that I think is very worth our— well, we need to be very serious about thinking that as a risk is all I'm trying to say.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-902", "start": 5857.033, "end": 5861.884, "text": "So I'm glad that I heard that in the recommendations from that body, right?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-903", "start": 5862.014, "end": 5879.458, "text": "Because if we're thinking about regional resources or even statewide resources to increase Portland's competitiveness, helping us out with this could be one of the The lowest-hanging fruit opportunities I think the state of Oregon could have, or multi-jurisdictional parties could have.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-904", "start": 5879.523, "end": 5881.97, "text": "So I don't think we've talked about that in this way yet.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-905", "start": 5883.45, "end": 5889.79, "text": "But at the end of the day, it's all about what is the net cost to taxpayers and workers in the city of Portland.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-906", "start": 5890.032, "end": 5896.621, "text": "And if we can— there's a lot of things that we have some— we have limited tools on how we can turn those dials.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-907", "start": 5897.121, "end": 5903.693, "text": "But do the math on the— I mean, I'm looking at 2030, 2037 maybe is where it peaks.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-908", "start": 5904.244, "end": 5912.084, "text": "That's almost $240 million a year in today's dollars that we need to bring in at the peak of this cost.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-909", "start": 5913.264, "end": 5916.556, "text": "So it's going to be a very expensive property tax bill is what I'm saying in a decade.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-910", "start": 5916.685, "end": 5918.573, "text": "It's already a really expensive property tax bill.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-911", "start": 5919.45, "end": 5929.59, "text": "So I'm glad we're talking about this, and I wanted to make sure we really firmly connected that migration competitiveness and affordability conversation to this as well.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-912", "start": 5929.8, "end": 5930.155, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-913", "start": 5931.268, "end": 5932.042, "text": "Thank you, Dr. Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-914", "start": 5932.155, "end": 5933.737, "text": "We'll go over to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-915", "start": 5935.76, "end": 5936.554, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-916", "start": 5938.618, "end": 5951.831, "text": "Councilor Green's comments were interesting to me because I think there's 2 through lines that I am hearing, not just, Councilor, from your comments, but they, they reinforced these 2 through lines to me.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-917", "start": 5952.53, "end": 5959.514, "text": "One one is, should we be prefunding the portion of our system that is currently a pay-as-you-go system?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-918", "start": 5959.595, "end": 5968.94, "text": "And the question there is, is prefunding cheaper or more expensive than what we do now, and when and for how long?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-919", "start": 5969.053, "end": 5983.102, "text": "And that's something that, you know, to the question from the person who spoke last, prefunding is often often a better choice earlier and a worse choice later, right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-920", "start": 5983.246, "end": 5984.418, "text": "Not always, but often.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-921", "start": 5985.237, "end": 5987.083, "text": "Interest rates are very high right now.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-922", "start": 5987.485, "end": 5998.483, "text": "I wouldn't want to guess, but I suspect that we would hear that this is a very bad time to think about pension bonds, and we don't have a lump sum payment.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-923", "start": 5998.916, "end": 6004.359, "text": "So the conversation about should we prefund or not, I don't know where the breakpoint is.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-924", "start": 6004.407, "end": 6004.985, "text": "I think the point is that we have to make a decision.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-925", "start": 6005.05, "end": 6006.109, "text": "When it's too late.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-926", "start": 6006.51, "end": 6016.766, "text": "But the question that I would ask if we're going to continue down the path of this discussion is when is that breakpoint where it doesn't pay off any longer, and have we passed that point or not?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-927", "start": 6016.894, "end": 6026.315, "text": "I think the other conversation, the other through line that I've heard is how do we pay and who pays, which is a little bit different from do we pre-fund or not.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-928", "start": 6027.069, "end": 6045.369, "text": "And I want to name that because nobody has explicitly called that out and if the conversation that folks are trying to set up, and I don't know the why on why this is coming forward at this point in time, if somebody has legislation coming or something like that, or if this is just we needed to tackle this topic at some point.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-929", "start": 6046.476, "end": 6050.152, "text": "But if the conversation we really want to have is who pays, let's name that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-930", "start": 6050.907, "end": 6058.066, "text": "And let's talk about the payment type and source and if folks are suggesting we change that or not, because that to me is a very different conversation.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-931", "start": 6058.147, "end": 6058.355, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-932", "start": 6059.453, "end": 6065.104, "text": "Line of conversation than have we passed the point at which prefunding is worth it or not.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-933", "start": 6065.716, "end": 6065.974, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-934", "start": 6067.825, "end": 6068.453, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-935", "start": 6068.534, "end": 6069.405, "text": "I'm next in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-936", "start": 6069.744, "end": 6079.32, "text": "I, I did want to say I, I, uh, I'm not aware of any legislation, so I think it is the latter of your 2 options of we just said we needed to talk about this at some point and it was ready, um, at this point.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-937", "start": 6079.369, "end": 6087.185, "text": "And I appreciate the staff who've been, uh, supportive of, of getting it to this agenda, um, as well as Councilor Councilor Green, uh, and I who are on the work group for this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-938", "start": 6087.46, "end": 6094.449, "text": "Um, the— I, I think you're right that there is a separate conversation around those 2 things and they're related.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-939", "start": 6094.578, "end": 6097.756, "text": "And so I'm, I'm, I'm very glad that you, you raised that question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-940", "start": 6098.434, "end": 6108.823, "text": "Um, I had a question, uh, sort of rhetorical one, and then one for, um, the deputy director and, and CFO, if, if you're, uh— I don't know if Jonas is still here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-941", "start": 6109.13, "end": 6109.377, "text": "There you are.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-942", "start": 6109.861, "end": 6111.949, "text": "Um, it's actually more for Jonas I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-943", "start": 6112.111, "end": 6115.916, "text": "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, Ms. Willis, but it may be helpful in a follow-up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-944", "start": 6116.483, "end": 6131.176, "text": "So the rhetorical question is more for David, which is, you know, as you look at— and for those who've been looking at the written testimony, there is this $425 million example from Indiana, that investment that was made up front.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-945", "start": 6131.514, "end": 6142.194, "text": "There's also in Kevin Matches' written testimony an analysis that shows $200 million upfront would save $2 billion, and it's basically higher cost for 7 years.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-946", "start": 6142.29, "end": 6145.566, "text": "That's slide 14 of the attachment to the written testimony.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-947", "start": 6145.983, "end": 6155.762, "text": "And so I think it's, it's, uh, the rhetorical question is, can we over the next couple months kind of come up with what is the thing that we're asking our staff to evaluate at the city?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-948", "start": 6156.34, "end": 6159.824, "text": "Um, or what are a couple things that we can specifically go back to?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-949", "start": 6160.209, "end": 6177.41, "text": "I know that many have said that it's already been suggested, but obviously that was before Councilor Beery, how are the pension obligations into PERS paid for by employees outside of these 2 bureaus?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-950", "start": 6178.884, "end": 6180.536, "text": "Uh, yeah, Councilor, that's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-951", "start": 6181.51, "end": 6187.702, "text": "Um, so those, um, are factored into this when we talk about sort of fully loaded personnel costs.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-952", "start": 6187.929, "end": 6194.119, "text": "Uh, those, um, obligations for the sort of employee-specific PERS component is folded to that.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-953", "start": 6194.248, "end": 6203.742, "text": "So we make sure that we have the ability to cover that as part of our budget related to the personnel cost center.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-954", "start": 6204.81, "end": 6210.875, "text": "Okay, so if— let's imagine a bureau that's 100% general fund funded that is not police or fire.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-955", "start": 6212.493, "end": 6218.24, "text": "Its budget includes the PERS contributions for its current employees, is that correct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-956", "start": 6218.79, "end": 6219.227, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-957", "start": 6219.275, "end": 6223.536, "text": "Yeah, there's some nuances there are some nuances around individual circumstances, but generally that's correct.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-958", "start": 6223.956, "end": 6224.263, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-959", "start": 6224.764, "end": 6232.736, "text": "But if I look at the dollar amount for the Fire Bureau, let's say, what of that is included?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-960", "start": 6232.849, "end": 6241.56, "text": "Because I know that the FPDR— and this is the follow-up part— the FPDR budget has internal transfers and also not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-961", "start": 6241.962, "end": 6246.509, "text": "And so if you could speak to what actually goes into the budget and what doesn't, that would be very helpful.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-962", "start": 6246.946, "end": 6251.391, "text": "Yes, very good question and super confusing from the outside.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-963", "start": 6251.953, "end": 6260.553, "text": "So those PERS contributions for the employees who were hired 2006 and later, they are in the police and fire budgets.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-964", "start": 6260.762, "end": 6261.644, "text": "You will see them there.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-965", "start": 6261.709, "end": 6266.266, "text": "Those expenses are there because they do pay those expenses directly themselves.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-966", "start": 6266.859, "end": 6271.561, "text": "Then we turn around and reimburse them every month for those contributions.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-967", "start": 6271.753, "end": 6283.157, "text": "So you would also see, if you knew where to look, revenue coming in, interagency revenue coming into police and fire from FPDR to perfectly exactly offset those expenses.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-968", "start": 6283.622, "end": 6288.591, "text": "So it kind of winds up being a pass-through expense for police and fire, but it is in their budget.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-969", "start": 6288.992, "end": 6296.334, "text": "What you don't see, obviously, because it's a pay-as-you-go plan, are the costs of the legacy retirees.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-970", "start": 6296.863, "end": 6304.557, "text": "So that little bit of the active workforce that's still in the FPDR plan, I mean, there's no pension costs for them in the police and fire budget.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-971", "start": 6304.637, "end": 6304.685, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-972", "start": 6305.807, "end": 6306.545, "text": "Does that make sense?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-973", "start": 6306.785, "end": 6310.712, "text": "Yeah, so let me repeat it back and you tell me if I'm right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-974", "start": 6311.418, "end": 6323.279, "text": "If you are looking at just the portion of personnel costs for people who started after January 1st, 2007, everything is in the police budget, everything is in the fire budget.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-975", "start": 6323.375, "end": 6324.257, "text": "Is that part correct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-976", "start": 6324.802, "end": 6325.074, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-977", "start": 6325.619, "end": 6341.264, "text": "If you're looking at the part that relates to people who started before January 1st, 2007, And the legacy for people who've already retired that we're doing pay-as-you-go for, that would not show up in police and fire, but it would show up in the FPDR budget?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-978", "start": 6341.729, "end": 6342.115, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-979", "start": 6342.532, "end": 6354.511, "text": "Although I do want to point out the nuance that like in a normal plan, like let's just imagine that, you know, we just were normal and in PERS, you wouldn't see any costs for already retired people in either plan.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-980", "start": 6355.619, "end": 6355.716, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-981", "start": 6355.812, "end": 6355.973, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-982", "start": 6356.181, "end": 6356.47, "text": "Then yes.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-983", "start": 6356.519, "end": 6358.205, "text": "But those are in the FPDR budget.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-984", "start": 6358.333, "end": 6359.714, "text": "But they are in the FPDR budget.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-985", "start": 6360.212, "end": 6362.337, "text": "And all of it is paid for by the FPDR levy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-986", "start": 6362.386, "end": 6364.543, "text": "And all of it is paid for by the FPDR levy.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-987", "start": 6364.72, "end": 6387.296, "text": "Okay, thank you for clarifying that, because that's something that comes up to me a lot when I talk to folks out who are interested in this, which is a small but dedicated group of community members, that there is a— there's not been as much understanding as there could be about what is covered in the fire budget for firefighters or police budget for police officers.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-988", "start": 6387.344, "end": 6387.73, "text": "So thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-989", "start": 6388.373, "end": 6400.545, "text": "The other piece I think is worth pulling on here, but I'm gonna follow up in writing on it with a couple questions on how we measure certain things for this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-990", "start": 6400.852, "end": 6424.782, "text": "But can you estimate, not the part for people who've already retired, how much is not going into the police and fire budgets, but is held on for, um, in the FPDR budget for the people that started— that are active but started before January 1st, 2007, how many, how many dollars are we talking about?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-991", "start": 6425.071, "end": 6433.107, "text": "We would have to come— we would have to go back and look at that because that is actually a completely hypothetical thing because the FPDR plan is, is pay as you go.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-992", "start": 6434.152, "end": 6446.023, "text": "So, so we're, we're living in this sort of pretend world where we say, oh, for that little you know, whatever it is, 10%, 15% of the sworn workforce, we're pretending they don't cost us anything right now.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-993", "start": 6446.473, "end": 6448.014, "text": "We're just like, nope, they don't cost us anything right now.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-994", "start": 6448.336, "end": 6451.916, "text": "They don't cost the Fire Bureau and the Police Bureau anything, and they don't cost FPDR anything.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-995", "start": 6452.51, "end": 6456.011, "text": "Then the minute they retire, now they start costing us money.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-996", "start": 6456.364, "end": 6460.378, "text": "Of course, could we estimate that using some, you know, actuarial technique?", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-997", "start": 6460.458, "end": 6463.397, "text": "Yes, we could do an estimate of it, but I don't have it off the top of my head.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-998", "start": 6463.83, "end": 6463.991, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-999", "start": 6464.874, "end": 6465.838, "text": "All right, thank you so much.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1000", "start": 6465.934, "end": 6468.087, "text": "I'll go to Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1001", "start": 6468.809, "end": 6471.09, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kanal, and thank you all so much for being here.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1002", "start": 6471.283, "end": 6476.648, "text": "And to the community folks that always show up for this issue, it means a lot to have your perspective here as well.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1003", "start": 6477.307, "end": 6488.037, "text": "I'm guessing this is a question that you— we won't have the information for, so I'm just sort of posing it as a general thing that I've been thinking about since reviewing the materials and looking at this.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1004", "start": 6489.514, "end": 6489.916, "text": "But we have yes.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1005", "start": 6489.996, "end": 6503.769, "text": "So we have, you know, some folks up here have stated that they want to hire hundreds of more officers, and the current actuarial analysis says that we can stay within the levy amount if we do not hire any new police or firefighters.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1006", "start": 6504.828, "end": 6510.407, "text": "And so the question I have is, what is the squish room within that?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1007", "start": 6511.161, "end": 6521.756, "text": "And maybe it's a lot, maybe it's nothing, because if we were to actually hire 350 I think the question I have is, does that put the levy and the city at risk?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1008", "start": 6523.2, "end": 6528.751, "text": "And like I said, I don't expect you to have those numbers, but it's something that people have posed up here as a goal.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1009", "start": 6529.041, "end": 6533.332, "text": "And so I'd like to know what the impacts of that would be if it were actually to materialize.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1010", "start": 6535.54, "end": 6537.134, "text": "Yeah, yeah, I'll just say it's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1011", "start": 6537.746, "end": 6546.055, "text": "And I think as Stacy said earlier, you know, that's part of the— that would be implemented in the next actuarial evaluation, but it's a good flag and question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1012", "start": 6546.817, "end": 6565.247, "text": "I mean, there is, based upon the current circumstance and the slide that was shown earlier with the levy rate approaching the $2.80 level, and given that new employees would be under the PERS system, there frankly is probably a lot of headroom under the $2.80 charter limitation.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1013", "start": 6565.744, "end": 6567.204, "text": "That's not to say there isn't an increase.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1014", "start": 6567.444, "end": 6569.61, "text": "There would certainly be an increase in a change in the dynamic.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1015", "start": 6570.251, "end": 6573.716, "text": "But I don't know that we've done the math, but we could probably come up with some rough estimate.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1016", "start": 6573.764, "end": 6574.694, "text": "But my guess is— I think it's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1017", "start": 6575.165, "end": 6580.922, "text": "Given the transition in motion, it's probably, there's a lot of squished room.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1018", "start": 6581.132, "end": 6585.27, "text": "I forget the term you used, but a lot of capacity if that choice was made.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1019", "start": 6586.338, "end": 6586.618, "text": "Gotcha.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1020", "start": 6586.913, "end": 6587.801, "text": "Okay, thank you so much.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1021", "start": 6591.482, "end": 6591.935, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1022", "start": 6593.441, "end": 6597.393, "text": "Seeing no one else in the queue, pausing for dramatic effect.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1023", "start": 6598.122, "end": 6602.603, "text": "Chair, sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just was thinking about the path forward.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1024", "start": 6602.766, "end": 6603.437, "text": "I actually have a question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1025", "start": 6603.486, "end": 6603.552, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1026", "start": 6603.601, "end": 6606.51, "text": "It would be really helpful to get some direction I think that's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1027", "start": 6606.51, "end": 6606.51, "text": "I think that's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1028", "start": 6606.51, "end": 6608.33, "text": "I think that's a good question to get direction on as we think about the path forward.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1029", "start": 6609.21, "end": 6614.91, "text": "Because I understand and have been doing this work for a long time, so I understand the math around prefunding.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1030", "start": 6615.29, "end": 6624.67, "text": "What I'm not understanding and would love, not today, but just as this discussion comes back, is a better understanding of where that prefunding resource comes from.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1031", "start": 6624.67, "end": 6633.43, "text": "Because I heard an example in Indiana, I think it was Indiana, there was a $425 million seed that provided that prefunding.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1032", "start": 6634.208, "end": 6642.12, "text": "I heard an example in the public testimony of a $200 million seed, and I don't see where that resource comes from.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1033", "start": 6642.265, "end": 6647.465, "text": "And so that's just a critical component as we think about the prefunding pathway.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1034", "start": 6648.829, "end": 6650.097, "text": "We've heard a lot about investment.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1035", "start": 6650.338, "end": 6650.755, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1036", "start": 6651.06, "end": 6652.007, "text": "What are we investing?", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1037", "start": 6652.12, "end": 6663.87, "text": "And so I just wanted to flag that for consideration by this council as the conversation goes forward, because I'm not clear on As we do that analysis, what our expectations should be about what that resource is.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1038", "start": 6664.714, "end": 6670.184, "text": "So I wanted to just make sure that was daylighted and dialogued as this moves forward.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1039", "start": 6670.813, "end": 6676.083, "text": "Yeah, I think maybe there may be a challenge in terms of what comes first.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1040", "start": 6676.389, "end": 6682.574, "text": "Like setting up the structure that could allow for potential future investment seems in my head like a first step.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1041", "start": 6684.2, "end": 6690.014, "text": "And then looking around and figuring out, I can also see like what's the point of doing that whole structural change if there's no potential to get money.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1042", "start": 6690.432, "end": 6691.685, "text": "So I appreciate the question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1043", "start": 6691.733, "end": 6693.58, "text": "Councilor Green, did you want to add anything on that?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1044", "start": 6694.126, "end": 6696.825, "text": "Yeah, I'm glad that you asked because it's important to be really clear.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1045", "start": 6697.58, "end": 6710.976, "text": "Um, we don't have an extra pot of money sitting around, and so if we're going to go down this road, even to explore it, we have to be honest that it, it would need to be a tax or a fee or something.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1046", "start": 6711.313, "end": 6713.529, "text": "We would have to— we'd have to levy something like that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1047", "start": 6714.59, "end": 6720.781, "text": "And we'd have to communicate that to the public that we would obviously need to refer it to them.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1048", "start": 6721.169, "end": 6728.995, "text": "But the idea would be if we were to contemplate another fee or tax or something, who would we tax?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1049", "start": 6729.494, "end": 6730.332, "text": "What would it be on?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1050", "start": 6730.525, "end": 6731.299, "text": "What would be the structure?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1051", "start": 6731.782, "end": 6734.023, "text": "And then is that better or worse than the alternative?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1052", "start": 6734.281, "end": 6741.093, "text": "I think to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney's points, we absolutely must have a break-even concept in our mind.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1053", "start": 6741.142, "end": 6747.39, "text": "And that's the cost-benefit I just want to make sure everyone reads the written comments from Mr. Matches.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1054", "start": 6747.806, "end": 6748.4, "text": "He's done it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1055", "start": 6748.448, "end": 6749.442, "text": "He's done some analysis.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1056", "start": 6749.89, "end": 6765.184, "text": "We should check his homework, but he's got a chart on page 14 of his written comments where he shows us that math, and he says that if you can come up with a source to pre-fund this, it's going to cost you, what, 2027?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1057", "start": 6765.296, "end": 6768.053, "text": "Let's say that's the first year that you start doing it, an extra $100 million.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1058", "start": 6768.101, "end": 6768.165, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1059", "start": 6768.887, "end": 6771.917, "text": "On top of what you're currently doing-ish, based upon my squinting.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1060", "start": 6772.83, "end": 6788.413, "text": "But that then crosses up— you reach a threshold where you no longer are— you're paying less than you would have in the status quo, and then you break even, and you— on the net life cycle cost, it's a $2 billion savings.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1061", "start": 6788.461, "end": 6793.286, "text": "And so the idea is, for a few years, if you can levy a tax on a term basis, you can do that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1062", "start": 6793.334, "end": 6793.783, "text": "I think that's a great idea.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1063", "start": 6793.98, "end": 6799.02, "text": "And so, but we shouldn't pretend like there's not a tax that would need to be levied.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1064", "start": 6799.4, "end": 6799.9, "text": "That's the thing.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1065", "start": 6800.86, "end": 6807.19, "text": "If we don't, if we're not going to be honest about that, then we're just hoping to get a big windfall in our laps, which is not going to happen.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1066", "start": 6807.24, "end": 6817.7, "text": "I don't think we should go out and try to bond against this in this market without something there, because I don't think— I mean, we're also, you know, we're not going to get returns from the market that are going to outweigh the cost of the debt service.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1067", "start": 6817.7, "end": 6819.54, "text": "And so it would need to be a tax.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1068", "start": 6819.54, "end": 6819.58, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1069", "start": 6820.313, "end": 6821.554, "text": "That's, that's how I'm thinking about it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1070", "start": 6821.683, "end": 6829.898, "text": "I'm just one of 12 councilors, but, um, I really think people should read the written comments in the record today because that's, that's what I'm reading and thinking through.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1071", "start": 6830.043, "end": 6835.549, "text": "Um, and, uh, yeah, that's, that's all I have there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1072", "start": 6835.775, "end": 6836.016, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1073", "start": 6836.402, "end": 6839.267, "text": "All right, thank you to everyone for this conversation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1074", "start": 6839.396, "end": 6847.079, "text": "Thank you to Franco from the City Attorney's Office, to, uh, CFO Beery, Stacy Deputy Director Johnson, APDR, and to David Drexel.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1075", "start": 6847.25, "end": 6852.372, "text": "Um, I'll keep everyone posted as this comes forward, and we'll circle back on, on any future steps.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1076", "start": 6852.42, "end": 6854.668, "text": "There's nothing planned at the moment, but we'll, we'll get to it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1077", "start": 6855.069, "end": 6859.228, "text": "We're going to take a short break, come back at 3:59, and we'll get going with everything else.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1078", "start": 6859.404, "end": 6859.934, "text": "Thanks so much.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1079", "start": 6860.368, "end": 6860.544, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1080", "start": 7879.7, "end": 7883.475, "text": "Councilor Clark, if you're online in Zoom, please turn your camera on.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1081", "start": 7888.076, "end": 7892.778, "text": "And we're back, as predicted by the council president, 4:06.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1082", "start": 7892.939, "end": 7894.991, "text": "Uh, so that's, uh, you win the pool.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1083", "start": 7895.9, "end": 7901.395, "text": "Um, not going to, not going to malign the folks who are here on the other Slackers, we'll get back to.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1084", "start": 7901.46, "end": 7907.804, "text": "But, uh, with that, I will ask if Rebecca, if you could please call items 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 together, please.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1085", "start": 7913.482, "end": 7924.991, "text": "Item 4, amend Regulation of Payday Lending Code to update program fees, amend Code Section 7.26.030, document number 2026-325.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1086", "start": 7925.654, "end": 7933.675, "text": "Item 5, amend Pay and Park and Non-Pay Private Parking Facilities Code to strengthen compliance and public notice requirements and update program fees.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1087", "start": 7933.787, "end": 7935.809, "text": "Amend Code Chapter 7.25.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1088", "start": 7936.211, "end": 7939.019, "text": "Document number 2026-326.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1089", "start": 7939.629, "end": 7944.958, "text": "Item 6, amend Secondhand Dealers Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1090", "start": 7945.423, "end": 7947.75, "text": "Amend Code Chapter 14B.90.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1091", "start": 7948.408, "end": 7951.153, "text": "Document number 2026-327.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1092", "start": 7951.827, "end": 7957.027, "text": "Item 7, amend Social Games Code to strengthen compliance requirements and update program fees.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1093", "start": 7957.46, "end": 7967.517, "text": "Amend Code Sections 14A.70, 0.060, and 14A.70.070, document number 2026-328.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1094", "start": 7967.92, "end": 7978.199, "text": "And item 8, repeal Amusement Devices, Games, and Machines Code, repeal Code Chapter 14B.110, document number 2026-329.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1095", "start": 7980.087, "end": 7983.879, "text": "All right, thank you so much, and I'll pass it over to, uh, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1096", "start": 7984.928, "end": 7985.703, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Chairman.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1097", "start": 7986.85, "end": 7994.063, "text": "So to use another of my outdated cultural references, my office is on a— like the Blues Brothers, on a mission from God.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1098", "start": 7994.368, "end": 8000.871, "text": "In our case, the mission is to find and root out silly requirements that unduly burden small business in the city.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1099", "start": 8002.3, "end": 8009.493, "text": "All of you joined me in eliminating one such silly requirement, the requirement for a permit to put up a simple sandwich board outside your business.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1100", "start": 8010.425, "end": 8020.994, "text": "It turns out that the city also has silly requirements that establishments that have pool tables and pinball machines have to have special permits to have pool tables and pinball machines.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1101", "start": 8021.572, "end": 8030.891, "text": "I believe that stems from an era when pool and pinball were considered unsavory activities, and politicians might have thought, well, if you're going to conduct this unsavory activity, at least you should have a permit.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1102", "start": 8031.389, "end": 8037.109, "text": "But that was always silly, and it's not as if we do active regulation of pool tables and pinball machines.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1103", "start": 8037.157, "end": 8038.86, "text": "We're not going out to inspect them.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1104", "start": 8039.519, "end": 8041.382, "text": "So we were talking with the revenue office about that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1105", "start": 8041.431, "end": 8041.527, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1106", "start": 8042.297, "end": 8059.284, "text": "And they said, well, they agreed that that was silly, and they also— but they also said that there's a number of other activities for which we do undertake active regulation, and those— and the permit fees for those activities haven't been updated in forever and don't actually pay the cost of regulation.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1107", "start": 8060.021, "end": 8067.624, "text": "And conveniently, everything we're talking about today starts with P: payday lenders, pay-to-park operations, and pawnbrokers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1108", "start": 8067.737, "end": 8069.823, "text": "Although there I'm taking a bit of poetic license because yes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1109", "start": 8070.146, "end": 8073.746, "text": "The language that we really use is secondhand dealers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1110", "start": 8075.78, "end": 8088.896, "text": "Before I ask the revenue folks to come up and explain further, I want to note that I passed out an amendment to the secondhand dealers portion of our proposal, which is based on feedback we got in the past couple of days.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1111", "start": 8089.478, "end": 8099.569, "text": "There's various provisions that apply to every employee of a secondhand dealer, and the feedback we got was, well, wait a minute, What if you operate in multiple jurisdictions?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1112", "start": 8099.922, "end": 8108.671, "text": "Does the City of Portland really need information about every employee in all jurisdictions, or do we really only need information about the employees operating in the City of Portland?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1113", "start": 8109.298, "end": 8110.518, "text": "And that made sense.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1114", "start": 8110.614, "end": 8118.046, "text": "So the amendment which we're proposing would in 3 places refer to employees in the City of Portland as opposed to just employees in general.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1115", "start": 8118.769, "end": 8120.84, "text": "And we're going to hear some public testimony about that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1116", "start": 8121.418, "end": 8137.921, "text": "So with that introduction, I'd like to ask the thanks for being here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1117", "start": 8138.05, "end": 8140.899, "text": "Please introduce yourself for the record, either altogether or when you start.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1118", "start": 8150.772, "end": 8151.373, "text": "Good afternoon.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1119", "start": 8153.322, "end": 8154.112, "text": "My name's Tim Mercer.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1120", "start": 8154.16, "end": 8158.064, "text": "I'm the Tax Division Manager within Revenue.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1121", "start": 8159.79, "end": 8166.826, "text": "We're here to talk to you today, as Councilor Novick alluded to, to talk to you about our regulatory stuff.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1122", "start": 8167.67, "end": 8171.085, "text": "So Revenue Division's known for, you know, collecting taxes.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1123", "start": 8171.344, "end": 8190.487, "text": "That's the bulk of what we do, as I'm sure you well know, but We also have a small number of regulatory programs that we administer within Revenue, and that's essentially a 1 FTE portion of our shop, and that's what we're going to talk about today.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1124", "start": 8193.752, "end": 8197.271, "text": "Here's a brief summary of the changes that we're proposing.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1125", "start": 8198.337, "end": 8204.632, "text": "The headliner is the discontinuation of the amusement device program that Councilor Novick referred to.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1126", "start": 8206.993, "end": 8226.446, "text": "Coupled with that, we have some, some kind of small updates to a few of the other programs like Pay and Park and Secondhand Dealer, and then kind of across the board updating the fee structures that haven't been updated in quite a while, and then tying them to future updates to the CPI.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1127", "start": 8229.416, "end": 8236.803, "text": "So with that, I'm going to turn it over and you'll hear the bulk of the presentation today.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1128", "start": 8238.088, "end": 8239.036, "text": "My name is Danny Dacelle.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1129", "start": 8239.117, "end": 8241.719, "text": "I'm the Business Income Tax Section Manager.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1130", "start": 8242.185, "end": 8249.399, "text": "This FTE, the Regulatory Program Coordinator, Leila Taylor, sitting next to my right, she reports to me.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1131", "start": 8250.122, "end": 8254.878, "text": "I'm going to try and present these ordinances to you folks in the order that I believe those were just read out.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1132", "start": 8255.264, "end": 8263.584, "text": "I'll do my best, but if you have questions and we need to jump I'm going to start with payday lenders, as it was mentioned.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1133", "start": 8263.809, "end": 8279.111, "text": "The ordinance establishing the payday lender program was first passed back in February of 2006 to provide local consumer protection— oops, sorry about that— local consumer protection framework to partner with the established state guidance.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1134", "start": 8279.271, "end": 8283.109, "text": "That's important to emphasize that this is primarily a state-guided program.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1135", "start": 8284.103, "end": 8297.738, "text": "Payday lenders must first and foremost be licensed by the state, and regulation of these entities focuses on personal consumer lenders that lend amounts under $50,000.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1136", "start": 8297.866, "end": 8302.785, "text": "Making sure that these folks are kept to strict interest caps is really the focus there.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1137", "start": 8303.65, "end": 8317.284, "text": "The focus of our effort on the city side is as a local protection for borrowers, establishing the ability for them to do things like cancel agreements, create payment plans, and file complaints locally for bad practices for these lenders.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1138", "start": 8319.185, "end": 8331.44, "text": "The broader enforcement of these still occurs at the state level, and at the time of the original passage of this ordinance for this program, there were— the landscape for these lenders was a lot bigger.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1139", "start": 8331.488, "end": 8347.584, "text": "There was upwards of 50 to 60 lenders at the time in Portland, but most of these, the vast majority of these, were not able to renew their permit with revenue within the first year because of the interest rate caps that were established and the other regulatory guidance at the time.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1140", "start": 8347.859, "end": 8352.824, "text": "So we're now at the place where our current landscape has about 5 of these folks left over.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1141", "start": 8354.551, "end": 8362.552, "text": "And I think this slide touches on the fact that since that point in time, we have not updated their registration fee since 2006.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1142", "start": 8362.6, "end": 8364.014, "text": "So it's a little bit out of date at this point in time.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1143", "start": 8365.908, "end": 8367, "text": "We can jump to the next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1144", "start": 8368.381, "end": 8370.678, "text": "This just highlights a summary of the proposed changes.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1145", "start": 8370.726, "end": 8383.333, "text": "It's pretty simple for this program, is just to increase that application fee to an amount that keeps up with this, the inflation index since that point in time, and then it ties future updates to the CPI indicator going forward.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1146", "start": 8384.12, "end": 8394.029, "text": "I'll note that we did receive just a little bit of feedback in our public comment period, which was focused on just resistance to that fee change.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1147", "start": 8394.209, "end": 8395.074, "text": "It's pretty straightforward.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1148", "start": 8397.557, "end": 8398.493, "text": "We can jump to the next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1149", "start": 8399.81, "end": 8402.14, "text": "The pay-and-park program is the next one on our list.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1150", "start": 8402.959, "end": 8415.797, "text": "This program was implemented and exists to protect the fairness and the convenience for the parking public, to avoid predatory ticketing practices for these private lots, and to put caps on penalty maximums that can be assessed.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1151", "start": 8417.268, "end": 8422.471, "text": "Only the lots that are registered and in compliance with our program are able to issue penalties for these violations.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1152", "start": 8423.049, "end": 8432.556, "text": "And the main differentiator that makes a parking lot fall under our purview is that they enforce permit through issuing citation notices, as I mentioned.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1153", "start": 8433.503, "end": 8443.637, "text": "Only the lots within the city— sorry, other lots within the city that you may see pay-on-exit lots or other lots that use towing as an enforcement mechanism, that would not be under our program.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1154", "start": 8443.701, "end": 8443.845, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1155", "start": 8444.423, "end": 8453.49, "text": "I'll also emphasize that this, this code section does not apply to public parking that's enforceable strictly through PBOT.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1156", "start": 8454.678, "end": 8461.53, "text": "And as noted by the amount of lots on this slide, there's about 164 permitted lots that are under our purview.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1157", "start": 8462.558, "end": 8476.103, "text": "That takes up a substantial amount of time and effort and energy per week from LILA, but we have not increased or updated the rates that are assessed on an annual basis for these folks for quite some time, about 2009.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1158", "start": 8482.002, "end": 8491.028, "text": "And just a high level, I know we had sent a summary of these proposed changes or have already been sent over to council, but just wanted to give a high-level table here.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1159", "start": 8492.39, "end": 8495.527, "text": "I don't know if— I don't want to stop too long here because I know we're time-limited.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1160", "start": 8496.296, "end": 8497.563, "text": "But we can go to our next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1161", "start": 8497.692, "end": 8505.106, "text": "Our public process involved sending letters out to the impacted businesses to notify of prospective changes.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1162", "start": 8505.298, "end": 8515.456, "text": "We opened a public comment period starting in August, and then we held an in-person listening session at City Hall with Commissioner Novick's office on the 24th.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1163", "start": 8516.531, "end": 8523.367, "text": "A summary, just a high-level summary of some of the comments that we heard from folks centered around concern on the definition of what made a large lot.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1164", "start": 8523.415, "end": 8523.479, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1165", "start": 8523.56, "end": 8523.752, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1166", "start": 8524.137, "end": 8530.086, "text": "And the potential impacts to the ability to assess penalties related to the grace period that we proposed.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1167", "start": 8530.247, "end": 8533.855, "text": "We wanted to establish that for the ticketed public.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1168", "start": 8534.881, "end": 8545.209, "text": "There was also concerns around the caps that are set on penalty maximums that can be issued because those have not changed in quite some time either when you're factoring in CPI increases.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1169", "start": 8546.364, "end": 8554.864, "text": "There's also a concern around the lack of definition on the ability for certain and operators to issue penalty notices to vehicles that occupy multiple parking spaces.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1170", "start": 8555.074, "end": 8559.699, "text": "So think of a tour bus that takes up 10 spaces in one of these private lots.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1171", "start": 8560.141, "end": 8563.084, "text": "There's a little bit of lack of clarity in the code on what they can do there.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1172", "start": 8564.64, "end": 8568.871, "text": "The changes that implemented here, if passed, would not take place until next year.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1173", "start": 8568.935, "end": 8571.526, "text": "So we're talking about changes that would occur next calendar year.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1174", "start": 8573.3, "end": 8574.433, "text": "We can jump to the next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1175", "start": 8575.582, "end": 8578.839, "text": "We'll move to the secondhand dealer program.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1176", "start": 8578.887, "end": 8579.144, "text": "So this—.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1177", "start": 8579.593, "end": 8588.24, "text": "The original establishment of this program dates back to the 1980s, and for the purpose of controlling the flow of stolen property within the City of Portland.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1178", "start": 8588.336, "end": 8595.394, "text": "The current program focuses and regulates business activities that are considered at high risk for passing off stolen property.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1179", "start": 8596.116, "end": 8601.779, "text": "So most often you can think of these as pawn shops, jewelry shops, sporting goods stores, and some others.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1180", "start": 8602.918, "end": 8613.532, "text": "The compliance effort for this program, same with the Pay and Park program, involves a significant amount of time and resources each week for, again, the one FTE.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1181", "start": 8614.878, "end": 8617.54, "text": "This involves consistent coordination as well with PPB.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1182", "start": 8618.085, "end": 8620.426, "text": "We have a liaison that works with Leela pretty closely.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1183", "start": 8621.356, "end": 8630.879, "text": "But it's similar in time and resource use to the Pay and Park program, and the permit fee increases, as mentioned with Pay and Park, has not really kept up with CPI.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1184", "start": 8631.714, "end": 8634.267, "text": "Adjustments or inflation over the past decade or so.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1185", "start": 8635.568, "end": 8642.809, "text": "And I'll note, just a quick note, because this slide differentiates between— I'm trying to head off a potential question just in case that comes.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1186", "start": 8642.874, "end": 8654.531, "text": "But the distinction between what you see as an occasional dealer and a regular dealer is that incorporates folks who acquire 50 items or less of regulated property per year.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1187", "start": 8654.659, "end": 8655.928, "text": "That makes them an occasional dealer.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1188", "start": 8655.992, "end": 8656.024, "text": "So.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1189", "start": 8656.281, "end": 8656.377, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1190", "start": 8656.624, "end": 8660.645, "text": "In case that question comes up, go to the next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1191", "start": 8664.59, "end": 8668.189, "text": "And this is just a another summary of the high-level changes here.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1192", "start": 8668.864, "end": 8669.925, "text": "I'll call out.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1193", "start": 8670.166, "end": 8682.205, "text": "I don't need to linger too long here, but I'll note that revenue had initially proposed increasing the the fee for all businesses here to about $600, and about after our public comment period.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1194", "start": 8683.048, "end": 8695.605, "text": "And our listening session with owners and operators on this, from this aspect, we adjusted that down to $450 across the board as just the standard one-time fee per year.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1195", "start": 8695.831, "end": 8706.539, "text": "So it's also worth noting here that this is the call-out that Councilor Novick made about the language change that you all have in front of you with this program.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1196", "start": 8707.87, "end": 8722.96, "text": "Can I ask, um, what— I just want to underline that what we're proposing here would eliminate the distinction between the fee for occasional dealers and non-occasional dealers, and that's because it doesn't take any more effort to regulate the non-occasional dealers than the occasional ones.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1197", "start": 8722.96, "end": 8730, "text": "I was just wondering, Leila, if you could sort of explain what you have to do with relation to each and why there's not a real difference in effort between the two.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1198", "start": 8730.26, "end": 8731.2, "text": "Yeah, absolutely.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1199", "start": 8731.2, "end": 8733.89, "text": "I'm Leila Taylor, the Regulatory Program Coordinator.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1200", "start": 8734.32, "end": 8738.764, "text": "When a secondhand dealer application comes in, It's accompanied by a fee.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1201", "start": 8739.302, "end": 8742.468, "text": "I have to review the documents to make sure that they're all complete.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1202", "start": 8743.655, "end": 8744.943, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1203", "start": 8745.088, "end": 8753.845, "text": "Any background check forms or personal history forms that— for each employee that are submitted with the application have to be reviewed for completion.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1204", "start": 8754.825, "end": 8761.779, "text": "And then once I've reviewed those, I create the account within our system and submit that to Portland Police Bureau for review.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1205", "start": 8762.841, "end": 8767.488, "text": "So the administrative process is, is identical regardless of how many items they acquire.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1206", "start": 8768.424, "end": 8768.699, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1207", "start": 8769.005, "end": 8769.296, "text": "Yeah, of course.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1208", "start": 8771.698, "end": 8778.634, "text": "Okay, um, our public process here was very similar to what, uh, what you saw with Payne Park.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1209", "start": 8778.779, "end": 8785.831, "text": "Letters went out to the impacted folks, uh, in July, and public comment, um, portal opened in early August.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1210", "start": 8786.689, "end": 8792.347, "text": "Online listening session was held with, with some of these folks, again we had a meeting with Commissioner Novick's office on the 24th.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1211", "start": 8792.862, "end": 8813.325, "text": "That's where a lot of the general feedback that we heard here, a summary of those comments centered on concerns on, again, that elimination of that occasional dealer permit, the overall fee increases given the market factors that are present currently, as well as just an overall opposition to tying things to the CPI index moving forward.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1212", "start": 8815.57, "end": 8816.286, "text": "We can go to the next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1213", "start": 8816.438, "end": 8819.603, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1214", "start": 8819.716, "end": 8820.969, "text": "So we'll talk about social games.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1215", "start": 8821.66, "end": 8830.112, "text": "So our local social games program stems originally from ORS statutes that were focused on gambling that were enacted in 1974.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1216", "start": 8830.401, "end": 8833.663, "text": "This is meant to regulate activities between players.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1217", "start": 8834.097, "end": 8837.311, "text": "This excludes lottery that takes place in a private residence.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1218", "start": 8838.291, "end": 8845.353, "text": "In the absence of our program and the enforcement of the regulations, Without authorization, social games of any kind would be considered illegal within the city.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1219", "start": 8847.12, "end": 8852.751, "text": "But our local authorization stems from the ORS guidance, again, enacted around 1974.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1220", "start": 8853.525, "end": 8857.836, "text": "You'll hear a theme, which is that the fees have not been updated since the origination.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1221", "start": 8857.966, "end": 8859.874, "text": "That dates back to 1974 for this one.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1222", "start": 8861.217, "end": 8867.517, "text": "Social games, in case anybody is wondering, includes poker, blackjack, cribbage, dominoes, any other games of that nature.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1223", "start": 8869.017, "end": 8873.795, "text": "And the current time commitment of this program for our program coordinator is fairly minimal.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1224", "start": 8873.843, "end": 8881.693, "text": "It's mostly a complaint-driven program, and the revenue generated stems from permit renewals from the existing business that are already registered with us.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1225", "start": 8883.656, "end": 8884.508, "text": "Go to the next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1226", "start": 8888.489, "end": 8895.425, "text": "And just again, a summary of the high-level changes here, just increasing the fee, tying that to the CPI indicator for any future adjustments.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1227", "start": 8896.953, "end": 8903.549, "text": "As well as trying to mandate business tax compliance for these folks as well, which was a— that was a theme of most of our changes also.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1228", "start": 8904.133, "end": 8906.278, "text": "And we did not receive any public commentary for this one.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1229", "start": 8911.719, "end": 8912.365, "text": "Amusement devices.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1230", "start": 8912.865, "end": 8915.288, "text": "We put this picture in just for Commissioner Novick.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1231", "start": 8915.643, "end": 8916.645, "text": "I'm just joking.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1232", "start": 8917.549, "end": 8924.458, "text": "This program focuses on and has been in existence— I'll date the history back.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1233", "start": 8924.506, "end": 8925.398, "text": "It dates back as far back as the 1930s.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1234", "start": 8927.424, "end": 8943.372, "text": "In its original form, because a distinction was decided was needed between amusement devices or innocent amusement devices like pinball, pool tables, other things of that nature versus gambling devices, and there was not any sort of enforcement or compliance of that activity at the time.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1235", "start": 8944.593, "end": 8955.835, "text": "Throughout the course of this program, Revenue and PPB have maintained a partnership agreement around inspection authority in order to manage the social and neighborhood effects associated with coin-operated amusement.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1236", "start": 8955.98, "end": 8956.18, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1237", "start": 8956.18, "end": 8956.18, "text": "Thank you, Mayor.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1238", "start": 8956.18, "end": 8956.18, "text": "This is Councilor Mitch Green.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1239", "start": 8956.18, "end": 8960.62, "text": "I'm here to talk about the Entertainment and Gaming Devices, and particularly their effects on minors while generating revenue.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1240", "start": 8960.62, "end": 8969.4, "text": "I just, I just want to throw in that distinction because that's— that language is— this program should not be confused with state lottery gaming at all, as it's completely separate.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1241", "start": 8969.76, "end": 8976.14, "text": "But it does regulate and permit devices within the city like pool table, shuffleboard, pinball, other things of that nature.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1242", "start": 8976.16, "end": 8979.62, "text": "And again, minimal time commitment for LEILA on this one.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1243", "start": 8979.62, "end": 8984.88, "text": "It's a complaint-driven program, and revenue comes from, again, the annual permit requirement for these folks.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1244", "start": 8987.742, "end": 8990.04, "text": "Next slide.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1245", "start": 8990.299, "end": 8995.268, "text": "And just briefly, I'll touch on— I know this is not— this is under our suite, so I'll talk about it.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1246", "start": 8995.316, "end": 8997.758, "text": "But this is the newest program under our regulatory umbrella.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1247", "start": 8997.823, "end": 9003.961, "text": "This was established in 2023, and that's the third-party food platform program.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1248", "start": 9004.01, "end": 9016.55, "text": "And it exists strictly to provide an outlet for local restaurants and delivery drivers to file complaints if violations of existing caps that were established for delivery and other fees that get charged to these folks.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1249", "start": 9017.946, "end": 9029.196, "text": "It tries to restrict the ability for predatory practices there by those third-party food platforms, DoorDash and other things like that.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1250", "start": 9029.341, "end": 9033.126, "text": "Again, pretty minimal time commitment for our coordinator per week.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1251", "start": 9033.271, "end": 9035.026, "text": "This is minimal complaint-driven.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1252", "start": 9035.22, "end": 9036.543, "text": "This is also non-revenue generating.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1253", "start": 9036.714, "end": 9037.827, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1254", "start": 9040.311, "end": 9052.35, "text": "And then our last 2 slides, just a high-level summary of the yearly changes that we'd be talking about for each of these programs, the summary of current and then proposed for each one we talked about today.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1255", "start": 9052.431, "end": 9067.831, "text": "And then our very last slide was just a summary of the annualized revenue collection for the current status of this program as of, I guess, as of FY24-25, and then what we project with these changes going into next fiscal year.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1256", "start": 9071.56, "end": 9073.189, "text": "I think that's, that's the end of what we—.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1257", "start": 9074.48, "end": 9078.337, "text": "Yeah, that concludes the presentation.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1258", "start": 9079.886, "end": 9080.08, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1259", "start": 9080.144, "end": 9080.903, "text": "Anything else you want to add?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1260", "start": 9081, "end": 9081.369, "text": "Okay, thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1261", "start": 9081.98, "end": 9098.248, "text": "Um, so colleagues, before, uh, opening it up for, for, uh, clarifying questions, um, just— we do have public testimony, so we will do the distinction between clarifying questions so are there any clarifying questions for either Councilor Novick or for the presenters?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1262", "start": 9101.46, "end": 9102.344, "text": "Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1263", "start": 9102.617, "end": 9103.115, "text": "Yeah, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1264", "start": 9103.179, "end": 9104.304, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1265", "start": 9104.529, "end": 9105.912, "text": "Uh, tidy presentation, by the way.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1266", "start": 9106.378, "end": 9108.644, "text": "Um, thanks for the good presentation, easy to follow.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1267", "start": 9108.724, "end": 9110.235, "text": "I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1268", "start": 9110.78, "end": 9120.108, "text": "So on slide 18, overall in the aggregate, you're saying that we currently lose $40,500 a year in revenue from the with our current status quo.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1269", "start": 9121.055, "end": 9128.627, "text": "Um, and in your proposal, your package of proposals, we would basically cut in half that loss, correct?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1270", "start": 9129.333, "end": 9133.44, "text": "Okay, so we'll hear some testimony that sort of contextualizes that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1271", "start": 9133.489, "end": 9135.606, "text": "It's not all just dollars and cents, but I just wanted to make sure.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1272", "start": 9136.729, "end": 9140.965, "text": "Sometimes the signs on the, on the tables can be a little misleading, but I got it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1273", "start": 9141.189, "end": 9141.446, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1274", "start": 9142.409, "end": 9144.125, "text": "Thanks, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1275", "start": 9144.174, "end": 9145.746, "text": "I'll, I'll just, uh, add my question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1276", "start": 9145.842, "end": 9165.527, "text": "It's about the secondhand dealer one, I just want to make sure I understand correctly that, um, because the, the, the paper version has— doesn't have the, the earlier part, but my understanding is right now the proposal would make it so that there's every employee who operates in the City of Portland would need to do a background check and all that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1277", "start": 9165.977, "end": 9168.881, "text": "Who is currently required to get a background check?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1278", "start": 9169.586, "end": 9176.737, "text": "Currently, each employee that acquires regulated property, so buys things that are defined by LIC 10.01.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1279", "start": 9177.657, "end": 9185.684, "text": "They have to have a background check that's been approved by Portland Police Bureau, and we're suggesting that there's also a background check fee accompanying that.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1280", "start": 9187.576, "end": 9192.153, "text": "Okay, so, so no new human beings would be covered by this rule?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1281", "start": 9193.483, "end": 9204.217, "text": "I mean, if, if you are a business owner and you hire a new employee that you intend to have them buy jewelry or whatever, then that new employee would have to have the background check, and that's current practice.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1282", "start": 9204.747, "end": 9208.729, "text": "Okay, so if you work at a pawn shop but you're not the buyer, correct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1283", "start": 9209.708, "end": 9209.965, "text": "Are you—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1284", "start": 9210.189, "end": 9212.132, "text": "This says, and each employee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1285", "start": 9212.838, "end": 9218.891, "text": "So if you're at a pawn shop but you are not the buyer right now, you don't need to get it, correct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1286", "start": 9218.939, "end": 9220.271, "text": "And going forward you would?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1287", "start": 9220.849, "end": 9221.363, "text": "Exactly.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1288", "start": 9221.588, "end": 9222.471, "text": "That's the change here.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1289", "start": 9222.615, "end": 9222.872, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1290", "start": 9223.514, "end": 9223.9, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1291", "start": 9224.156, "end": 9242.347, "text": "In addition to the fee, the changes that, uh, currently business owners could sort of, uh, dictate who is buying and who's going to go through the process to be on the list, um, whereas now we're saying all staff at that location would be on the list and go through the process.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1292", "start": 9243.039, "end": 9243.36, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1293", "start": 9243.763, "end": 9244.298, "text": "Councilor Ryan.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1294", "start": 9246.584, "end": 9258.118, "text": "Chair, um, first, just at the very beginning of your presentation when you mentioned the taxes that we and I appreciate that you put all the ones that aren't directly just for the city but for the metro area and for the county.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1295", "start": 9259.211, "end": 9261.476, "text": "This isn't a complete list, and you know that, correct?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1296", "start": 9261.766, "end": 9262.167, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1297", "start": 9262.232, "end": 9266.249, "text": "Okay, just wanted to note that the children's levy is not on here, the cannabis tax is not on here.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1298", "start": 9266.651, "end": 9270.362, "text": "So you really focused on the ones that were beyond the city for the most part.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1299", "start": 9271.648, "end": 9274.862, "text": "Just, just trying to point out kind of who we are in general.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1300", "start": 9275.022, "end": 9277.095, "text": "Yeah, and you have taken on a lot.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1301", "start": 9277.192, "end": 9284.768, "text": "A lot of new responsibility, and I've always questioned how that has been difficult on our capacity for the ones that we already have.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1302", "start": 9285.821, "end": 9291.958, "text": "My way of saying I have empathy when anytime there's a cut to your bureau because of taking on all these responsibilities.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1303", "start": 9293.219, "end": 9294.076, "text": "Okay, back to topic.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1304", "start": 9294.464, "end": 9296.663, "text": "Councilor Novick, I'm so sorry I didn't call you this morning.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1305", "start": 9296.986, "end": 9299.687, "text": "It's a— I think it's a softball, and you're very good at these.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1306", "start": 9301.823, "end": 9305.378, "text": "I can't imagine that— I'm trying to imagine where the why came from.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1307", "start": 9305.592, "end": 9309.175, "text": "And where this list came from and how much more digging can be done.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1308", "start": 9309.223, "end": 9324.309, "text": "So I'm trying to get at, were these items or funds or whatever we want to call them, 'cause they really go all over the place, is it something the revenue division was chomping at the bit to bring cleanup to us anyway?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1309", "start": 9324.389, "end": 9328.294, "text": "Like, I'm kind of confused on how we got to this moment.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1310", "start": 9328.39, "end": 9332.085, "text": "And I respect that Councilor Novick creatively dug in there with you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1311", "start": 9332.663, "end": 9339.534, "text": "Clearly there's ones like the amusement, which is kind of a no-brainer and actually was entertaining.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1312", "start": 9340, "end": 9343.612, "text": "Makes me think of the musical Music Man and some of the lyrics in that.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1313", "start": 9344.125, "end": 9349.536, "text": "But then there's others that I think have some consequences that probably need a little bit more discussion.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1314", "start": 9349.985, "end": 9355.427, "text": "But I respect you and I wanna just hear a little bit more about how this all came to fruition.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1315", "start": 9356.342, "end": 9356.792, "text": "May I respond?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1316", "start": 9356.904, "end": 9358.75, "text": "Yeah, it's directly to him.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1317", "start": 9359.12, "end": 9364.245, "text": "So the revenue folks could maybe, you know, give us some more context to our discussions.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1318", "start": 9364.294, "end": 9376.57, "text": "But really, we were having— we were talking about following up on eliminating the permit requirement for putting sandwich boards out in front of your business.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1319", "start": 9376.892, "end": 9377.068, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1320", "start": 9377.309, "end": 9382.178, "text": "We were talking about the fact that there are these permit requirements for having pool tables and pinball machines.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1321", "start": 9382.757, "end": 9387.956, "text": "And the Revenue Bureau folks agreed that that that's kind of, you know, outdated and unnecessary.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1322", "start": 9388.308, "end": 9403.234, "text": "But they also brought to our attention that there are several other activities which are regulated and require permits which actually take the time of the bureau to do the active regulation, and that the fees for those had not been updated in a long time.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1323", "start": 9403.282, "end": 9406.28, "text": "We're not covering the cost of— really, it's just Leela's time.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1324", "start": 9407.146, "end": 9415.065, "text": "So we decided to bring those together, saying that we're going to update these fees that haven't been updated forever and don't pay the cost of regulation.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1325", "start": 9415.735, "end": 9422.467, "text": "At the same time as we are eliminating the permit requirement for activities that don't actually really require active regulation.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1326", "start": 9424.35, "end": 9425.417, "text": "Okay, I understand.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1327", "start": 9426.016, "end": 9432.616, "text": "I appreciate that you did the sandwich board item and that that led to more dialogue.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1328", "start": 9433.037, "end": 9440.397, "text": "I guess I'm just kind of perplexed why this was always under the mayor's bureaus, if you will, and why some of these hadn't come up.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1329", "start": 9441.012, "end": 9444.075, "text": "In the last 10 years or 20 years with some of them, 30 years even.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1330", "start": 9444.139, "end": 9451.083, "text": "So anyway, I was just entertained by this legislation and had to hear a little bit more about the motivation.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1331", "start": 9451.275, "end": 9451.676, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1332", "start": 9452.702, "end": 9454.033, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Ryan.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1333", "start": 9454.145, "end": 9455.653, "text": "I realized I forgot one more question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1334", "start": 9456.23, "end": 9457.352, "text": "It's on slide 8.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1335", "start": 9457.994, "end": 9465.13, "text": "You had the comments, and maybe this is just generally, how should we view your— as you're saying there, these are the comments we received.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1336", "start": 9465.723, "end": 9467.743, "text": "Are these feedback on the proposal we're seeing now?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1337", "start": 9468.514, "end": 9469.172, "text": "Or were—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1338", "start": 9469.541, "end": 9473.986, "text": "Was the proposal we're seeing now shaped based on these comments?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1339", "start": 9475.029, "end": 9475.768, "text": "That's a great question.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1340", "start": 9475.816, "end": 9476.73, "text": "Thank you for asking that.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1341", "start": 9477.404, "end": 9479.876, "text": "Um, it's a little bit of both.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1342", "start": 9480.213, "end": 9483.31, "text": "So, uh, we had a comment period open.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1343", "start": 9483.68, "end": 9506.866, "text": "We were able to make some modifications to what you're seeing right now based on that comment period, and then we've continued to receive feedback all the way up to as, as Councilor Novick alluded to, I think, um, one of the, the comments that, um, precipitated the amendment you have in front of you, uh, came into us yesterday or something like that.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1344", "start": 9506.962, "end": 9519.749, "text": "So there's— it's probably fair to say that there's some stuff that we've heard, heard feedback on that we haven't gotten into the package, and there's some other things where we made, um, some tweaks here and there to what's in front of you.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1345", "start": 9521.61, "end": 9527.642, "text": "Did anything change with relation to the people who park in more than one parking spot?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1346", "start": 9527.979, "end": 9528.268, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1347", "start": 9529.343, "end": 9529.632, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1348", "start": 9530.675, "end": 9535.792, "text": "Um, I, I will be following up on that afterwards because that's an area of interest of mine.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1349", "start": 9536.29, "end": 9545.835, "text": "Um, seeing no one else in the queue, uh, we're gonna call all the testifiers together on, on all of these, and I don't think there's any duplicate signups anyway, but I will call the first testifier.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1350", "start": 9546.405, "end": 9549.947, "text": "Rebecca, if you could please call our panel of testifiers, and thank you to the presenters.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1351", "start": 9552.983, "end": 9557.997, "text": "Kevin O'Connell, Caleb Schlesinger, and Matthew Forgue.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1352", "start": 9569.083, "end": 9570.183, "text": "You can go ahead at the table.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1353", "start": 9571.66, "end": 9572.96, "text": "Uh, my name is Caleb Schlesinger.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1354", "start": 9573.24, "end": 9578.338, "text": "I guess I represent one of the 11, uh, parking operators that currently work with the city.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1355", "start": 9579.317, "end": 9585.431, "text": "I do have some additional concerns that I think weren't fully addressed, but I did submit in writing as well.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1356", "start": 9585.928, "end": 9600.354, "text": "I think what also is missing is the fact that this code, from my understanding, having worked with it for over 15 years, is also geared towards providing people with an alternative solution to towing, which is hard to undo.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1357", "start": 9601.076, "end": 9613.161, "text": "We issue parking penalty notices that we are gracious the city allows us to do, and working with the revenue department, which I think we've had 3 complaints get escalated that far this year, we resolve these things.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1358", "start": 9613.905, "end": 9638.019, "text": "So I'm not sure how much time this portion requires, but I think that there's a lot of burden being put on the operators, including costs that I haven't personally had time to even quantify with the signage changes as well As well as the required photography that's being, you know, put my— I have to train my staff on how to do it, when to do it, de-escalation, because that can be a contentious moment.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1359", "start": 9638.629, "end": 9642.82, "text": "I now have to do like almost a video around a car based on this.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1360", "start": 9643.527, "end": 9646.449, "text": "And there's just so many challenges that I don't think have been fully vetted.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1361", "start": 9646.593, "end": 9662.954, "text": "And if there's only 11 of us doing it, I think there could be some dedicated time with those 11 people to work through what the problems and challenges that need to be addressed I've worked and served on the city's parking planning commission before, and that was a great opportunity.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1362", "start": 9663.034, "end": 9670.053, "text": "We had, you know, multiple sessions to work through these things, and a lot of the changes were data-driven, which I don't think this so much is.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1363", "start": 9670.79, "end": 9678.386, "text": "And I am gracious and grateful that they did bring up the fact that the penalty fee, which is $44, hasn't gone up since 2011.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1364", "start": 9678.802, "end": 9680.517, "text": "So 15 years on that, and I would love to see that go up.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1365", "start": 9680.581, "end": 9680.741, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1366", "start": 9680.87, "end": 9690.14, "text": "Get escalated as well to at least create some balance so that these additional fees and charges being passed on to me and my other operators can at least be somewhat recovered.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1367", "start": 9690.205, "end": 9704.248, "text": "Because our job isn't to go out there and find people violating, it's to protect private property, make sure that it's used by the intended user, which could be a clinic visiting, you know, patient visiting a clinic, and make sure that someone at the coffee shop isn't taking that parking spot.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1368", "start": 9704.906, "end": 9709.785, "text": "And that might be for a 20-stall facility which is being treated the same as a 200-stall facility.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1369", "start": 9710.458, "end": 9718.891, "text": "So I just think that the intent of this might be well driven, but there's just some work that could be done to, to really make this a better proposition to you all.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1370", "start": 9719.355, "end": 9728.189, "text": "And I think they've also written some stuff too, but I think that sufficiently covers my gist of my concern.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1371", "start": 9728.253, "end": 9728.525, "text": "On time.", "speaker": "Caleb Schlesinger" }, { "id": "cue-1372", "start": 9729.279, "end": 9729.535, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1373", "start": 9733.93, "end": 9735.439, "text": "Matthew, you can go ahead online.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1374", "start": 9736.418, "end": 9739.1, "text": "Thank you, Chair Kanal and members of the committee.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1375", "start": 9739.164, "end": 9749.954, "text": "First, my great appreciation to Councilor Novick and to your staff for responding quickly to my last-minute concerns about the secondhand dealer amendment language that I sent just yesterday.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1376", "start": 9750.901, "end": 9753.807, "text": "Second, I understand that there was a public comment period for this amendment.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1377", "start": 9753.855, "end": 9755.734, "text": "I apologize for not participating in that.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1378", "start": 9755.846, "end": 9758.415, "text": "We only became aware of the proposed amendment yesterday.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1379", "start": 9759.699, "end": 9760.821, "text": "My name is Matthew Forgue.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1380", "start": 9760.982, "end": 9763.645, "text": "I am the Director of Regulatory Affairs at EcoATM.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1381", "start": 9764.511, "end": 9767.173, "text": "EcoATM is a nationwide electronic recommerce company.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1382", "start": 9767.815, "end": 9775.932, "text": "We operate over 7,000 automated kiosks located inside retail storefronts around the country, including several here in the City of Portland.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1383", "start": 9776.621, "end": 9781.337, "text": "Our kiosks make it simple and convenient for consumers to sell unwanted electronic devices.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1384", "start": 9781.77, "end": 9795.066, "text": "This keeps devices out of the waste stream, provides cash to local communities, And gives consumers around the world access to used devices that they might not otherwise be able to afford if they were trying to buy those devices new.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1385", "start": 9796.51, "end": 9799.845, "text": "My appreciation again for the recent edits to the language of the amendment.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1386", "start": 9799.893, "end": 9805.555, "text": "Those edits would relieve the burden for our company of an overbroad definition of employees.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1387", "start": 9806.469, "end": 9821.721, "text": "However, I just want to point out that the updated version, which ties the personal background questionnaire to employees located within the City of Portland, done would still affect employees of businesses opening multiple locations within the city.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1388", "start": 9821.801, "end": 9841.799, "text": "So if you had a location with 20 employees and then you opened another location and you wanted to have 20 different employees in that location, a strict reading of the amendment language might require all 40 employees to be background checked under, uh, or for the application for the second location.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1389", "start": 9843.411, "end": 9849.057, "text": "So my suggestion would be to tie the language more closely to employees who work actually at the location being licensed.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1390", "start": 9849.999, "end": 9854.016, "text": "And with that, that's my only comment, and I thank you all very much for your time.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1391", "start": 9857.853, "end": 9858.628, "text": "Kevin O'Connell.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1392", "start": 9861.064, "end": 9862.016, "text": "That concludes testimony.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1393", "start": 9864.221, "end": 9864.501, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1394", "start": 9864.65, "end": 9865.936, "text": "Thank you everyone for testifying.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1395", "start": 9866.381, "end": 9867.288, "text": "With that, we will open up public comment.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1396", "start": 9867.536, "end": 9867.888, "text": "The queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1397", "start": 9868.177, "end": 9871.527, "text": "Um, feel free to do questions or comments on it before we get to it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1398", "start": 9871.624, "end": 9873.211, "text": "And I'm going to start with Council President Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1399", "start": 9873.724, "end": 9889.242, "text": "I did want to note that, um, we can do 2 things at the end of this, um, to this end of this conversation, which may not occur today, but, um, we can move to refer them as a package, or if there's not consensus around all of them, uh, move on each one individually.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1400", "start": 9889.819, "end": 9900.104, "text": "Um, and it may be helpful if people have, as you're taking your time If you're not commenting on something because you don't have a concern about it, it might be worth raising, just noting that so we know where there's consensus and where there's not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1401", "start": 9900.826, "end": 9902.656, "text": "Council President Dunphy, followed by Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1402", "start": 9902.752, "end": 9903.121, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1403", "start": 9903.169, "end": 9903.891, "text": "I'll be very brief.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1404", "start": 9904.1, "end": 9906.411, "text": "I'm generally supportive of all of these efforts.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1405", "start": 9906.748, "end": 9916.411, "text": "I think all of this makes a lot of sense, and the effort to broadly try and update things that have been sort of lingering in revenue, you know, I helped lead the effort to overhaul the arts tax.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1406", "start": 9916.539, "end": 9917.31, "text": "I'm glad for this.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1407", "start": 9917.679, "end": 9918.369, "text": "This looks great.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1408", "start": 9919.187, "end": 9921.611, "text": "My one thought that came to mind was around the park and pay component.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1409", "start": 9924.437, "end": 9935.846, "text": "During the comprehensive 2030 or Comp Plan 2035 conversations, there were conversations by the then City Council about the hope to eventually get rid of surface parking lots in the downtown core.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1410", "start": 9937.64, "end": 9945.592, "text": "And so I'm wondering, like, and additionally, I am dealing with some constituent services issues around the area of Burnside and Third.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1411", "start": 9946.363, "end": 9957.773, "text": "Specifically, the owners of Dante's have reached out to me a couple of times, and there is a parking lot, a surface parking lot near Dante's that is too expensive for most people to— who go to Dante's to use.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1412", "start": 9958.175, "end": 9960.925, "text": "There's no public nuisance containment options.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1413", "start": 9961.214, "end": 9966.568, "text": "And so it has become a place where actual violence has been happening, not only to vehicles but to individuals.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1414", "start": 9967.594, "end": 9983.229, "text": "And so I was wondering if there is an opportunity under this program to either have obligations for these property owners To have certain standards if they are going to be licensed to operate open parking lots in downtown core.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1415", "start": 9983.78, "end": 9988.962, "text": "And the other question was around the fee structure that we are specifically charging to these folks.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1416", "start": 9990.962, "end": 9998.178, "text": "I would like to see personally moving towards a variable fee structure based on the underlying FAR.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1417", "start": 9998.79, "end": 10007.008, "text": "If a building— if a piece of land has a lot of value as a building, To the city, to the, you know, to us as a society.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1418", "start": 10007.587, "end": 10010.318, "text": "We want to disincentivize that just being a parking lot.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1419", "start": 10010.415, "end": 10011.877, "text": "There's some of those in Old Town.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1420", "start": 10011.941, "end": 10017.052, "text": "There's some along the waterfront that I think are interesting.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1421", "start": 10017.116, "end": 10023.711, "text": "But so, Councilor Novick, I guess to you, was there any conversation about variable fee structures on any of these?", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1422", "start": 10025.6, "end": 10026.698, "text": "I don't think that there was.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1423", "start": 10027.037, "end": 10042.517, "text": "I think that a lot of I'll ask the revenue folks if this is true, but my assumption has been that the purpose of the fee structure is to cover the cost of regulatory activity, and to have fees based on FAR would sort of depart from that, that model.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1424", "start": 10042.854, "end": 10046.811, "text": "I understand the incentive desires, but I mean, revenue folks, is that true?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1425", "start": 10047.645, "end": 10052.9, "text": "Basically, I think that's a fair statement, generally speaking.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1426", "start": 10052.964, "end": 10059.945, "text": "Again, this is a one FTE program, You know, we're kind of in the game of trying to cover costs as best as possible.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1427", "start": 10061.84, "end": 10073.525, "text": "So there's potential here to, I think, for council to, you know, under their purview, to kind of do some additional things with any of these programs.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1428", "start": 10074.122, "end": 10077.637, "text": "However, just recognize that it is a 1 FTE program.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1429", "start": 10078.373, "end": 10083.571, "text": "Any of those things that might come with additional work would be additional expense.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1430", "start": 10083.635, "end": 10084.866, "text": "Yeah, it sounds like I'm asking for an upgrade and y'all are asking for a car.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1431", "start": 10086.86, "end": 10093.86, "text": "Like, let's, let's get the car washed first, get our, you know, basic before we start eyeing those expensive upgrades.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1432", "start": 10093.86, "end": 10098.08, "text": "Yeah, we're, we're, we're trying to empty the ashtray because it's, it's been filling up.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1433", "start": 10098.08, "end": 10098.62, "text": "Fair enough.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1434", "start": 10098.62, "end": 10099.34, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1435", "start": 10099.34, "end": 10100.16, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1436", "start": 10102.18, "end": 10103.6, "text": "Thanks, Council President.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1437", "start": 10103.6, "end": 10105.9, "text": "Councilor Novick, and then Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1438", "start": 10106.16, "end": 10106.82, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1439", "start": 10106.82, "end": 10119.839, "text": "I just, uh, wanted to give the revenue folks an opportunity to address the regulatory changes in the parking program that Mr. Schlesinger referenced and explain the rationale for the changes and signage requirements, et cetera, since we didn't really get into the details of that before?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1440", "start": 10120.855, "end": 10123.968, "text": "The majority of the signage requirement changes are complaint-driven.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1441", "start": 10125.135, "end": 10129.345, "text": "People indicating that they didn't see signs or that signs were not visible.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1442", "start": 10130.952, "end": 10136.87, "text": "And so that's really largely driving the signage requirements.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1443", "start": 10139.399, "end": 10141.294, "text": "Can we go over what some of the changes are?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1444", "start": 10141.628, "end": 10142.423, "text": "This quickly.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1445", "start": 10144.369, "end": 10144.888, "text": "Yes, absolutely.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1446", "start": 10144.936, "end": 10145.585, "text": "Can you pull that?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1447", "start": 10145.828, "end": 10147.012, "text": "You have that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1448", "start": 10147.304, "end": 10148.958, "text": "I don't know if I have the signed returns.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1449", "start": 10151.79, "end": 10152.844, "text": "I would need to just catch on.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1450", "start": 10152.892, "end": 10154.627, "text": "I can go through the slides here.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1451", "start": 10156.49, "end": 10157.22, "text": "I think I don't have pulled up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1452", "start": 10160.223, "end": 10160.77, "text": "I have them.", "speaker": "Jonas Beery" }, { "id": "cue-1453", "start": 10161.414, "end": 10162.186, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Stacy Jones" }, { "id": "cue-1454", "start": 10163.587, "end": 10166.628, "text": "Just minimum standards, but.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1455", "start": 10167.487, "end": 10168.711, "text": "I'm pulling it up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1456", "start": 10168.972, "end": 10169.217, "text": "There we go.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1457", "start": 10171.452, "end": 10172.111, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1458", "start": 10172.963, "end": 10195.443, "text": "Um, so looking at the signage requirements, um, specifically the ADA payment stickers, um, on ADA signs, that, uh, there is within the code— excuse me, uh, within the code there's a requirement that ADA signs have a sticker that says something to the effect of permit holders are responsible for payment but there's no size requirement.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1459", "start": 10195.54, "end": 10205.441, "text": "And so often that sign or that sticker is— the letters are less than 1 inch high and they're very hard to see unless you're standing directly in front of it and, you know, leaning forward.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1460", "start": 10205.571, "end": 10208.965, "text": "Or some of the signs are up high on a wall, and so they're very difficult to see.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1461", "start": 10210.372, "end": 10227.437, "text": "Um, uh, uh, the no park— no pay, no park signage again is this is just complaint-driven, people not recognizing that if the payment machine doesn't accept payment, they think they can park there for free.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1462", "start": 10227.759, "end": 10238.472, "text": "And there's no— so I am suggesting adding a note, if you are not able to make a payment, then you should not park sign.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1463", "start": 10239.604, "end": 10240.704, "text": "Again, complaint-driven.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1464", "start": 10242.838, "end": 10246.689, "text": "And then for the miscellaneous signage that's not specified in the code, just adding a minimum.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1465", "start": 10246.901, "end": 10251.084, "text": "There are some signs that are required to be 7 inches tall or 3 inches tall.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1466", "start": 10251.909, "end": 10257.217, "text": "And for the things that aren't specified, just adding that size requirement again for visibility and complaint-driven.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1467", "start": 10258.75, "end": 10259.234, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1468", "start": 10261.366, "end": 10261.544, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1469", "start": 10261.754, "end": 10263.192, "text": "Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, then Councilor Ryan.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1470", "start": 10263.547, "end": 10264.71, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1471", "start": 10266.23, "end": 10278.585, "text": "Um, you all spoke a little bit to the, the why of rolling in the occasional secondhand dealers with the, the other folks and the fact that the cost of doing the work is the same.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1472", "start": 10279.578, "end": 10281.837, "text": "Can you speak to the feedback you received on that though?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1473", "start": 10281.902, "end": 10290.346, "text": "Because I'm guessing that there was some pushback since the revenue they received from operations for doing that work is presumably much lower.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1474", "start": 10290.714, "end": 10300.857, "text": "What did we hear from that community and were we able to figure out something in what we have before us that works for both the occasional and the more full-time dealers?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1475", "start": 10301.209, "end": 10302.731, "text": "Or did we end up with something where— I think we did.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1476", "start": 10303.5, "end": 10306.437, "text": "It's likely going to be a controversial solution.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1477", "start": 10307.938, "end": 10309.406, "text": "So we didn't hear a lot of feedback.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1478", "start": 10309.486, "end": 10313.568, "text": "We heard from, I think, maybe 3-ish business owners.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1479", "start": 10313.987, "end": 10315.552, "text": "Out of how many that we have registered?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1480", "start": 10315.633, "end": 10316.294, "text": "I'm sorry, what?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1481", "start": 10316.488, "end": 10317.988, "text": "3 out of how many that we have registered?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1482", "start": 10318.037, "end": 10320.733, "text": "130-Ish.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1483", "start": 10320.862, "end": 10322.396, "text": "130 occasionals or—.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1484", "start": 10322.396, "end": 10323.817, "text": "Oh, I'm sorry, 34 occasionals.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1485", "start": 10324.027, "end": 10325.109, "text": "3 out of 34 occasionals.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1486", "start": 10325.96, "end": 10332.17, "text": "Well, uh, 3 total out of the $134 or whatever, $100 and what?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1487", "start": 10333.09, "end": 10333.623, "text": "$30, $40.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1488", "start": 10334.123, "end": 10335.124, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1489", "start": 10336.416, "end": 10344.134, "text": "So the general feedback about the pricing was just really about the price increase more than anything.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1490", "start": 10344.455, "end": 10348.169, "text": "So, you know, the cost of doing business is going up all the time.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1491", "start": 10349.684, "end": 10353.424, "text": "This feels like too big of a jump is what we heard from them.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1492", "start": 10353.537, "end": 10372.237, "text": "So we tried to meet in the middle with, um, uh, that $450 price point, whereas we had planned a $600, um, price point, which the $600 is just the, the CPI increase since the fee was last, um, updated.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1493", "start": 10372.894, "end": 10377.592, "text": "So we're— we were trying to, you know, feather that and, and thread the needle there a little bit.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1494", "start": 10377.913, "end": 10388.192, "text": "Um, but we didn't hear, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think we heard from any occasional dealers that I want to keep paying the occasional dealer fee.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1495", "start": 10388.432, "end": 10388.849, "text": "Is that true?", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1496", "start": 10390.132, "end": 10394.253, "text": "I think we just heard general feedback about— or did we hear from—.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1497", "start": 10394.366, "end": 10399.064, "text": "We heard from— okay, an occasional dealer who did not agree with the fee increase.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1498", "start": 10399.481, "end": 10408.702, "text": "Yeah, so we're essentially raising the occasionals to be at the level that the, um, the other dealers were previously.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1499", "start": 10408.782, "end": 10410.209, "text": "We're not raising it for the other dealers.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1500", "start": 10411.125, "end": 10413.983, "text": "We heard pushback about the extent of that fee increase.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1501", "start": 10414.416, "end": 10420.117, "text": "Did we hear pushback though about regulating them together generally or just the extent of the fee increase?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1502", "start": 10420.278, "end": 10421.595, "text": "Just the fee increase.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1503", "start": 10422.269, "end": 10431.84, "text": "And that you didn't end up raising the total fee, just the fee for the occasionals in order to address that feedback that you had heard?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1504", "start": 10432.065, "end": 10432.321, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1505", "start": 10432.707, "end": 10433.028, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1506", "start": 10433.108, "end": 10433.719, "text": "I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1507", "start": 10433.911, "end": 10434.329, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-1508", "start": 10435.276, "end": 10436.304, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1509", "start": 10436.416, "end": 10437.749, "text": "Councilor Ryan's next in queue and then I'll follow.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1510", "start": 10437.83, "end": 10439.564, "text": "Finish the, the D2, I guess.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1511", "start": 10439.628, "end": 10442.052, "text": "Okay, um, thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1512", "start": 10442.936, "end": 10451.911, "text": "I'm going to try to do your advice, which is, um, the tolerance of these changes, and if there's any that we think deserve more airtime than moving this along quickly.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1513", "start": 10452.537, "end": 10458.141, "text": "Um, payday lenders, social games, amusement devices, uh, Councilor, those seem pretty easy to move along.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1514", "start": 10459.056, "end": 10459.072, "text": "I—.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1515", "start": 10459.458, "end": 10463.279, "text": "We were not suggesting any changes to third-party food platforms.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1516", "start": 10464.259, "end": 10464.371, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Kevin Matches" }, { "id": "cue-1517", "start": 10464.516, "end": 10464.596, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1518", "start": 10465.56, "end": 10465.881, "text": "That's great.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1519", "start": 10465.946, "end": 10466.701, "text": "Just looked into.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1520", "start": 10467.809, "end": 10468.066, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1521", "start": 10468.13, "end": 10472.05, "text": "It's part of the suite of programs I oversee, and so we included it just as a—.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1522", "start": 10472.226, "end": 10472.419, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1523", "start": 10472.467, "end": 10472.965, "text": "As a review.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1524", "start": 10473.013, "end": 10477.045, "text": "People go pick up your food so you can help them out, the local restaurants.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1525", "start": 10478.089, "end": 10481.8, "text": "The one where I'm taking pause is the one that I mentioned earlier.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1526", "start": 10481.864, "end": 10487.373, "text": "It's the pay and park, and there was some public process, and I appreciate the testimony.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1527", "start": 10488.273, "end": 10489.622, "text": "And there's a couple things on this one.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1528", "start": 10489.735, "end": 10498.933, "text": "One is when you listen to the storefront restaurants, especially in Pearl and Slabtown and such, they have a lot of issues with workforce.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1529", "start": 10498.981, "end": 10506.717, "text": "It's difficult for their employees to find places to park, and many of them do need to rely on their car to get to those jobs.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1530", "start": 10507.327, "end": 10518.96, "text": "So we have the— PBOT has a program with our parking lots in the hours, the swing shift hours, if you will, That's very accessible rates.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1531", "start": 10519.672, "end": 10530.821, "text": "And so when we've— when I've had this socialized, this conversation, they said you'll have to talk to the private parking lot owners when you get into Pearl and Slabtown.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1532", "start": 10530.87, "end": 10533.842, "text": "So I was hoping to have some dialogue about that.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1533", "start": 10534.195, "end": 10536.256, "text": "So I just wanted to put that out there as another issue.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1534", "start": 10538.304, "end": 10549.588, "text": "But I also recall when the mayor suggested meter rate increases in downtown and in these areas, there was a pretty big pushback.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1535", "start": 10550.069, "end": 10553.788, "text": "So this would, of course, increase rates of parking.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1536", "start": 10554.381, "end": 10560.938, "text": "And I'm not— I don't have my mind made up on what this is or what we do with it.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1537", "start": 10561.275, "end": 10567.928, "text": "But of the ones presented today, it has more complexities, I think, is what I'm trying to get to, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1538", "start": 10569.05, "end": 10569.915, "text": "Mr. Chairman, may I respond?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1539", "start": 10571.021, "end": 10571.101, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1540", "start": 10571.198, "end": 10578.668, "text": "Um, I just want to say that the amounts that we're talking about here are quite small, and they just can't imagine they will significantly impact the cost of parking.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1541", "start": 10578.781, "end": 10585.447, "text": "You're talking about implementing a new operator application fee of $400, increasing the annual lot fee from $200 to $400.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1542", "start": 10586.413, "end": 10591.753, "text": "Um, I just don't see how that those small amounts could possibly affect the cost of parking overall.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1543", "start": 10594.681, "end": 10606.063, "text": "And then also the other one that I don't have as much of an opinion that we should take more time with secondhand dealers, but I was just taken with the testimony and trying to get more information on that.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1544", "start": 10606.817, "end": 10617.119, "text": "But I'm just— we're letting you know, with not having much time to be briefed on this, um, I wanted to offer the ones that I thought were really easy to move on and those that I thought deserved some more dialogue.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1545", "start": 10617.569, "end": 10617.89, "text": "That's all.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1546", "start": 10618.227, "end": 10618.435, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1547", "start": 10619.093, "end": 10620.361, "text": "Thanks, Councilor Ryan.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1548", "start": 10620.457, "end": 10631.726, "text": "Uh, I'm next in the queue, um, and I agree completely with, uh, Councilor Ryan's assessment I have a request for a roll call vote on the 3 that I think are probably the ones I haven't heard anything about so far.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1549", "start": 10631.79, "end": 10633.733, "text": "Those are agenda items 4, 7, and 8.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1550", "start": 10634.054, "end": 10643.88, "text": "I'm noting that there was no testimony on any of the 3 of those, and that there was today, and that there was no public comment on 7 or 8 at all.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1551", "start": 10644.458, "end": 10648.344, "text": "So that's not the only reason, but that's a reason.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1552", "start": 10648.424, "end": 10649.564, "text": "So I'll raise that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1553", "start": 10649.693, "end": 10651.925, "text": "I have a couple questions with relation to the parking one.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1554", "start": 10651.989, "end": 10652.069, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1555", "start": 10652.928, "end": 10657.139, "text": "That have similar— that relate to the testimony.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1556", "start": 10657.203, "end": 10670.562, "text": "I also am interested in making it easier to deal with people who park over the line in both privately held garages and lots as well as smart parks eventually.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1557", "start": 10671.953, "end": 10684.007, "text": "As an interim step towards firing giant pickups into the sun, I think we should do something to try and regulate yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1558", "start": 10684.929, "end": 10692.99, "text": "That's being, you know, that's incorrect because someone's taking up more than one spot in a garage during an event or something like that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1559", "start": 10693.457, "end": 10695.489, "text": "So that's of interest to me.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1560", "start": 10696.352, "end": 10703.526, "text": "Also, I have— I think those are things that may be easily navigable with conversation on that one.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1561", "start": 10704.35, "end": 10711.498, "text": "I have more concern about secondhand dealers with relation to the background check requirement and a few other things as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1562", "start": 10711.903, "end": 10715.509, "text": "I don't want to make it harder to operate a music instrument store in the city.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1563", "start": 10715.849, "end": 10725.965, "text": "I have a lot of time spent talking to folks who work there and have a lot of experience buying things at musical instrument stores in this town as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1564", "start": 10726.691, "end": 10730.529, "text": "So I definitely don't want to complicate that, and that's my entry point to it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1565", "start": 10730.662, "end": 10744.385, "text": "But I'm also curious, have— has there been conversation or engagement with anyone who is in that category of people that would, um, would, uh, are currently not required to get a check but would be?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1566", "start": 10744.866, "end": 10755.042, "text": "That's— and then the other question I have is a process question, which is either way you answer this, Councilor Novick, it's still going to be first on the agenda next week, um, at our next meeting, I should say.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1567", "start": 10755.54, "end": 10766.027, "text": "But, um, is— would you like us to refer the things that are consensus Do you mind if those are separated, or would you prefer to have the conversation continue to next week?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1568", "start": 10766.668, "end": 10768.351, "text": "I would prefer to do everything all at once.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1569", "start": 10768.607, "end": 10775.579, "text": "I would note that it's the secondhand dealers and the parking facilities that take up the bulk of LILA's time.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1570", "start": 10776.396, "end": 10784.522, "text": "So if we're going to have a program that comes as close as possible to paying its expenses, then we should address those.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1571", "start": 10785.211, "end": 10788.929, "text": "Okay, so effectively separating them runs the risk of creating higher deficits in the future.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1572", "start": 10789.042, "end": 10791.257, "text": "In the program or changing it?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1573", "start": 10792.075, "end": 10794.081, "text": "And yeah, okay, fair enough.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1574", "start": 10794.563, "end": 10800.228, "text": "Um, but then I, I'd still ask my question about, um, have we talked to the folks that currently don't need a background check but would?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1575", "start": 10801.015, "end": 10805.589, "text": "I'll, I'll ask the team, but we've talked to the businesses that hire people.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1576", "start": 10805.637, "end": 10813.293, "text": "I don't know if we've like gone to people who are currently not listed as buyers but, um, but might have to have background checks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1577", "start": 10813.502, "end": 10816.726, "text": "Um, that's can the team respond to that?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1578", "start": 10817.688, "end": 10826.396, "text": "Yeah, we did outreach to business owners who are in the program, not specifically to employees of those businesses, if that's the question.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1579", "start": 10826.974, "end": 10844.996, "text": "Yeah, so my ultimate concern here is the idea of just for the privilege of having the job in any of these types of businesses, the idea that you'd have to give, not only give over all this information, To the police, but also have to pay for the privilege of doing that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1580", "start": 10845.417, "end": 10852.21, "text": "That to me just seems like treating it like being a security guard or one of those other types of roles, which it's not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1581", "start": 10853.162, "end": 10866.576, "text": "So having worked in a different type of retail, I can't imagine that it— but I sold watches, so it wasn't secondhand, but I sold watches, and I guarantee that that would have been a factor for me in taking on a role like that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1582", "start": 10866.624, "end": 10866.769, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1583", "start": 10867.657, "end": 10870.879, "text": "Um, so that's, that's sort of what's on my mind right now.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1584", "start": 10871.056, "end": 10871.717, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1585", "start": 10871.781, "end": 10873.118, "text": "I'll pass it over to Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1586", "start": 10874.116, "end": 10874.6, "text": "All right, thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1587", "start": 10875.325, "end": 10887.74, "text": "Uh, just a quick question in terms of, since these are fee increases, um, they're directly related to the cost of administering of the program?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1588", "start": 10888.436, "end": 10889.506, "text": "Is that how I should understand them?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1589", "start": 10890.436, "end": 10890.795, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1590", "start": 10891.904, "end": 10899.307, "text": "Uh, I mean maybe directly is a little bit too strong of a word.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1591", "start": 10900.046, "end": 10910.876, "text": "I don't know that we know exactly the way the initial fee was come up with at the origin of these programs, which vary over many decades.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1592", "start": 10912.113, "end": 10923.97, "text": "But what we did, what we're proposing in this package, is to basically take what the fee is and and multiply it by the CPI increase that's happened since the last time the fee was adjusted.", "speaker": "Tim Mercer" }, { "id": "cue-1593", "start": 10925.111, "end": 10927.167, "text": "Sure, I see that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1594", "start": 10927.296, "end": 10935.136, "text": "I guess that's where I'm actually struggling a little bit because I saw that and I understand fees to really be related to program cost recovery.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1595", "start": 10935.329, "end": 10936.501, "text": "Otherwise, they're taxes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1596", "start": 10936.839, "end": 10943.619, "text": "And so for some of these things, I have to always ask myself, what was the purpose of that fee, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1597", "start": 10943.683, "end": 10950.167, "text": "It sounds like in the history of Portland, they've wanted to know about certain types of games that occur, know about certain types of lots that occur.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1598", "start": 10950.344, "end": 10951.707, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1599", "start": 10952.83, "end": 10958.782, "text": "I think I'm holding a different mindset of I'm not sure if that our knowledge is the thing that's important.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1600", "start": 10958.846, "end": 10965.761, "text": "And and so if if knowledge of a place is the thing that's important, I'm not sure about the fee programmatic costs.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1601", "start": 10965.841, "end": 10971.744, "text": "So I saw that inflationary stuff in some of the the documents.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1602", "start": 10971.841, "end": 10971.937, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1603", "start": 10972.547, "end": 10978.236, "text": "And I felt like, gosh, I don't know that that's directly related to cost recovery for implementing of whatever the program is.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1604", "start": 10979.65, "end": 10991.155, "text": "So I'm struggling a little bit in that sense and certainly do believe that things have a way of trickling to the cost of parking.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1605", "start": 10991.203, "end": 10996.522, "text": "And I go back to Councilor Ryan's comments a little bit.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1606", "start": 10998.016, "end": 11000.842, "text": "$1.60 change is a small number.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1607", "start": 11000.987, "end": 11007.955, "text": "$1.60 change per hour for an employee who is there having to do that multiple hours on a shift, these are real changes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1608", "start": 11008.003, "end": 11010.54, "text": "So I do think they have a way of trickling down.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1609", "start": 11010.62, "end": 11017.284, "text": "But going, for instance, like from 500 to 1,000, it kind of seems like a revenue grab more than a programmatic need.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1610", "start": 11017.46, "end": 11021.731, "text": "And that's where I'm struggling because I'm not sure if I'm in— if it's appropriate for a revenue grab.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1611", "start": 11021.796, "end": 11023.803, "text": "But I'm digesting all this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1612", "start": 11024.027, "end": 11030.462, "text": "I know I had to step out for part of it, but I was also monitoring but I'm digesting this and we'll— I'm not quite sure where I'll go yet.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1613", "start": 11030.542, "end": 11030.943, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1614", "start": 11031.328, "end": 11032.595, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1615", "start": 11032.964, "end": 11037.92, "text": "So just programming note, we're going to hear from Councilor Novick and then we're going to continue the items to next week.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1616", "start": 11038.562, "end": 11042.508, "text": "Councilor Novick— or next meeting, I should say, of the committee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1617", "start": 11042.636, "end": 11044.096, "text": "Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1618", "start": 11045.203, "end": 11064.364, "text": "Yes, just to respond to Councilor Zimmerman, what we're— although there might not be like a precise, like, minute-by-minute calculation, it is a fact that Leela's time, the vast majority of her time, or the biggest chunk of it, goes to administering the parking and secondhand dealer programs.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1619", "start": 11064.942, "end": 11077.899, "text": "And the combination of these fee increases together and the elimination of the fee for the amusement devices would be to come somewhat closer to covering her, her, the personnel cost of her.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1620", "start": 11078.525, "end": 11088.85, "text": "So we're talking about a program that's administered by by one person, and we're going to have, you know, fees that add up to almost the cost of, you know, her annual costs.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1621", "start": 11089.363, "end": 11097.151, "text": "And again, I think that the difference that we didn't— I don't think that we had any of the parking permit people actually complain about the fees, did we?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1622", "start": 11097.472, "end": 11100.94, "text": "That none of them said this is going to raise the cost of parking, is that correct?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1623", "start": 11101.406, "end": 11102.851, "text": "No, that is correct.", "speaker": "Leila Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1624", "start": 11103.076, "end": 11104.537, "text": "We didn't hear that.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1625", "start": 11107.569, "end": 11108.306, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1626", "start": 11109.107, "end": 11110.422, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1627", "start": 11110.694, "end": 11112.57, "text": "I'm seeing Councilor Pirtle-Guiney has a question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1628", "start": 11112.794, "end": 11116.849, "text": "We're at 5, so if you could please be brief, um, or a comment, I'm not sure which.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1629", "start": 11117.587, "end": 11117.763, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Holt" }, { "id": "cue-1630", "start": 11118.148, "end": 11118.853, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1631", "start": 11118.949, "end": 11154.663, "text": "I'm understanding that there's concerns about the policy changes for the pay and park by some folks within the community and possibly some of our colleagues up here, but I am wondering why you're holding this over when I think I've only heard 2 people express a desire to wait, and I haven't heard any concerns about the budgetary side, instead of perhaps amending out the policy pieces of Pay and Park to come back to that later and moving forward the other 4 items in full and the budgetary piece of Pay and Park.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1632", "start": 11155.065, "end": 11159.785, "text": "I think I'm going to let Councilor Novick speak to that because I— it was based on my question to him.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1633", "start": 11160.508, "end": 11168.848, "text": "Or I should say perhaps just moving all of it forward, because I certainly haven't heard concerns from the bulk of our colleagues with moving anything forward.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1634", "start": 11171.33, "end": 11180.809, "text": "I'd be happy to move all of it forward with the caveat that we first— I'd have to get a vote on the amendment to the second-end dealer provision.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1635", "start": 11182.37, "end": 11192.451, "text": "But let's say not all of us are here, so I wonder if that yeah, I want to be respectful of the council—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1636", "start": 11193.133, "end": 11194.871, "text": "The evening council meeting tonight.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1637", "start": 11194.936, "end": 11197.274, "text": "I would try to get done as quickly as possible.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1638", "start": 11198.244, "end": 11208.642, "text": "So recognizing that there are a lot of colleagues who haven't even gotten in the queue yet, and I don't want to assume that silence means support or opposition, there is no motion at this moment.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1639", "start": 11209.224, "end": 11211.831, "text": "So I'm going to pause and allow there to be a motion if someone would like to make one.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1640", "start": 11211.911, "end": 11212.025, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1641", "start": 11213.981, "end": 11219.881, "text": "And then if— but if not, you know, I don't want to run over because we're asking our staff to stay pretty late tonight.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1642", "start": 11220.54, "end": 11228.026, "text": "I would like, if I could, to quickly move the amendment that changes the reference to all employees to employees operating in the City of Portland.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1643", "start": 11228.495, "end": 11229.109, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-1644", "start": 11229.627, "end": 11233.667, "text": "There's a motion to amend the third— I think it's number 6.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1645", "start": 11234.62, "end": 11240.191, "text": "Yeah, 2026-327 with the amendment that we have here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1646", "start": 11240.757, "end": 11243.56, "text": "Clerk, do you— Clerk's Office have what they need for this one?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1647", "start": 11244.301, "end": 11245.702, "text": "There's a second from Councilor Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1648", "start": 11246.089, "end": 11247.845, "text": "Is there any further discussion on the amendment?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1649", "start": 11250.807, "end": 11252.843, "text": "Seeing none, Rebecca, could you please call the roll on the amendment?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1650", "start": 11253.328, "end": 11258.717, "text": "Motion to amend Exhibit A in 2026-327 as shown in Novick 1.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1651", "start": 11259.297, "end": 11259.845, "text": "Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1652", "start": 11260.344, "end": 11260.392, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1653", "start": 11262.696, "end": 11263.083, "text": "Morillo?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1654", "start": 11263.325, "end": 11263.712, "text": "Absent.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1655", "start": 11263.969, "end": 11264.324, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1656", "start": 11264.936, "end": 11264.984, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1657", "start": 11266.064, "end": 11266.225, "text": "Clark?", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1658", "start": 11268.365, "end": 11268.494, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Olivia Clark" }, { "id": "cue-1659", "start": 11269.236, "end": 11269.333, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Danny Dacelle" }, { "id": "cue-1660", "start": 11269.543, "end": 11269.64, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1661", "start": 11270.527, "end": 11270.543, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1662", "start": 11271.64, "end": 11271.801, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1663", "start": 11272.447, "end": 11274.399, "text": "Absent.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1664", "start": 11277.749, "end": 11277.878, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1665", "start": 11279.682, "end": 11279.844, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1666", "start": 11281.374, "end": 11281.422, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Matthew Forgue" }, { "id": "cue-1667", "start": 11282.34, "end": 11284.467, "text": "And the amendment is approved with 10 aye and 2 absent.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-1668", "start": 11285.579, "end": 11294.299, "text": "Okay, seeing no one else in the queue, I'm going to continue this item onto the— these 5 items onto the next meeting.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1669", "start": 11294.526, "end": 11301.89, "text": "And with that, we'll adjourn the meeting of the Committee of the Whole at 5:03 PM and look forward to seeing you at 6, uh, for the council meeting tonight.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1670", "start": 11302.66, "end": 11302.925, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1671", "start": 11303.048, "end": 11303.349, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" } ] }