WEBVTT 1 00:06:03.528 --> 00:06:03.978 Good morning. 2 00:06:04.235 --> 00:06:07.430 I call this meeting of the Community and Public Safety Committee to order. 3 00:06:08.569 --> 00:06:14.110 It is Tuesday, um, uh, September 15th, 9:30 AM. 4 00:06:14.206 --> 00:06:15.442 Could the clerk please call the roll? 5 00:06:16.615 --> 00:06:17.064 Good morning. 6 00:06:17.273 --> 00:06:17.721 Morillo. 7 00:06:19.646 --> 00:06:19.920 Here. 8 00:06:22.223 --> 00:06:22.353 Here. 9 00:06:22.964 --> 00:06:23.771 Here. 10 00:06:24.173 --> 00:06:24.512 Novick. 11 00:06:24.737 --> 00:06:24.850 Here. 12 00:06:26.170 --> 00:06:28.105 Uh, could we hear the statement of conduct? 13 00:06:30.689 --> 00:06:32.692 Welcome to the meeting of the Community and Public Safety Committee. 14 00:06:32.740 --> 00:06:44.305 To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance to the committee agenda at www.portland.gov/council/agenda/community-and-public-safety-committee or by calling 311. 15 00:06:44.660 --> 00:06:47.029 Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link. 16 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.879 Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting. 17 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.870 In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard. 18 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:58.230 If public testimony will be taken on an item, individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the Chair states otherwise. 19 00:06:58.339 --> 00:07:00.329 Your microphone will be muted when your time is over. 20 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:01.759 The Chair preserves order. 21 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:07.699 Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed. 22 00:07:07.699 --> 00:07:09.720 If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given. 23 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.399 Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting. 24 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.660 Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass. 25 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:18.081 Additionally, the committee may take short recess and reconvene virtually. 26 00:07:18.435 --> 00:07:20.343 Your testimony should address the matter being considered. 27 00:07:20.423 --> 00:07:22.170 When testifying, state your name for the record. 28 00:07:22.218 --> 00:07:24.702 If you're a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent. 29 00:07:24.990 --> 00:07:27.507 Virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name. 30 00:07:27.636 --> 00:07:27.973 Thank you. 31 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:29.896 Thank you. 32 00:07:30.216 --> 00:07:32.492 We have 3 items on our agenda today. 33 00:07:32.701 --> 00:07:42.928 First, there's a report back on a resolution Councilor Smith sponsored earlier this year to study police officer recruitment goals and the cost of achieving and sustaining increased staffing levels. 34 00:07:43.024 --> 00:07:46.086 My apologies to Councilor Smith for taking so long to get this on the agenda. 35 00:07:46.471 --> 00:08:00.757 Between the budget, other legislation, and staff events, second is continued discussion of the Protecting Portland Buildings Ordinance that would prohibit the carrying of firearms into certain city buildings by persons who have concealed weapons permits. 36 00:08:01.565 --> 00:08:04.524 The sponsor has an amendment I'll be motioning as a courtesy. 37 00:08:04.944 --> 00:08:06.949 We'll have the city administrator here to share his perspective. 38 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:15.685 Third, we have a new ordinance from Councilor Zimmerman to amend the Conduct Code for Portland Parks with updates to ejection and exclusion criteria. 39 00:08:17.889 --> 00:08:28.401 But our first order of business is the approval of the Community and Public Safety Committee meeting minutes from July 7th, 2026 through August 4th, 2026. 40 00:08:28.545 --> 00:08:31.538 Are there any objections to approval of the minutes? 41 00:08:32.265 --> 00:08:36.312 All right, by unanimous consent, the minutes are approved. 42 00:08:37.192 --> 00:08:37.941 I could—. 43 00:08:40.309 --> 00:08:42.168 Um, the clerk, read the, the second item. 44 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:51.115 Item number 2, document number 2026-314, Portland Police Expansion Cost Report. 45 00:08:53.139 --> 00:08:53.818 Thank you. 46 00:08:53.964 --> 00:08:58.671 Um, we have a somewhat lengthy presentation today, but I think that the, um, content warrants it. 47 00:08:58.898 --> 00:09:01.404 We're on for 30 minutes, but if you can get through before then, that would be great. 48 00:09:01.892 --> 00:09:02.605 So take it away. 49 00:09:02.735 --> 00:09:05.475 Good morning, my name is Nick McDonald. 50 00:09:05.524 --> 00:09:07.826 I'm a performance analyst with the Public Safety Service Area. 51 00:09:11.697 --> 00:09:12.070 Good morning. 52 00:09:12.345 --> 00:09:14.028 Brian Hughes, Deputy Chief, Portland Police Bureau. 53 00:09:14.869 --> 00:09:24.686 So I'm going to present on the report presented to council pursuant to Resolution 42 directing the DCA to prepare a report on expanding— the cost of expanding the police bureau. 54 00:09:27.375 --> 00:09:28.482 Just some background. 55 00:09:28.596 --> 00:09:30.975 This kind of issue has been looked at in the past. 56 00:09:31.187 --> 00:09:33.777 In 2015, there was a staffing study. 57 00:09:34.469 --> 00:09:34.677 Yes. 58 00:09:34.774 --> 00:09:41.822 Which looked at increasing staff from 924 in 2015 to 951. 59 00:09:42.821 --> 00:09:51.322 In 2020, there was an updated study that looked just at patrol officers, recommending increasing patrol officers to 399. 60 00:09:51.515 --> 00:09:54.205 But those recommendations were never fully implemented at the time. 61 00:09:58.464 --> 00:10:00.822 So we took a workload analysis framework. 62 00:10:00.903 --> 00:10:14.043 We looked at what work the police bureau is expected to do, how much time it takes, and the level of performance that the We looked at 3 primary scenarios. 63 00:10:15.101 --> 00:10:24.143 One of them, the lowest here, took the period around 2020 as our kind of scenario for most challenging recruitment and retention. 64 00:10:25.136 --> 00:10:32.719 The high scenario there looked at a scenario where we have a dramatically improved recruiting and retention situation. 65 00:10:33.217 --> 00:10:42.989 And the medium scenario there, we think, is a plausible increase on a glide path that reflects our best recruiting performance over the last few years sustained over a decade. 66 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:54.042 So the model here of that middle scenario charts out what that would look like over about 10 years. 67 00:10:54.316 --> 00:10:58.833 We see a gradual increase in the number of available non-trainee officers. 68 00:10:59.577 --> 00:11:01.011 A full trainee docket. 69 00:11:01.527 --> 00:11:07.261 And by about 2030, we eliminate our vacant positions and would need reauthorization for increased. 70 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:15.111 And by June 36th, we reach the full level of our model. 71 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:28.313 So one of the main assumptions here is that a decent proportion of these officers would be assigned to patrol with the goal of reducing response times for priority service. 72 00:11:28.428 --> 00:11:42.030 You can see over the past few years, we've had a decline in both the number of dispatched calls for service and an increase in the response times for all categories of call. 73 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:50.688 The patrol staffing level over the past 10 years has been pretty stable at about 330 officers. 74 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:55.033 The decline in officers has not really affected patrol staffing levels. 75 00:11:55.082 --> 00:12:03.865 It's been one way that that's been dealt with is an increased reliance on overtime. 76 00:12:05.316 --> 00:12:12.936 One of our assumptions in this model is that a decent chunk of new hires would be assigned to reduce overtime. 77 00:12:14.231 --> 00:12:22.162 We think that by 2036, we could reduce overtime by approximately 2/3, saving about $13 million a year. 78 00:12:22.210 --> 00:12:22.355 Thank you. 79 00:12:22.768 --> 00:12:25.811 By reducing personnel backfill overtime and planned mission overtime. 80 00:12:26.309 --> 00:12:32.388 There would be about a third of the overtime that would not be able to be removed, which would be emergency situations, warrant service, those kinds of things. 81 00:12:35.966 --> 00:12:43.133 The Chief's Office put together a staff— a sample staffing plan of how we would use this number of officers. 82 00:12:44.149 --> 00:12:45.413 I'm not going to go through this in detail. 83 00:12:45.479 --> 00:12:46.484 It's in the report. 84 00:12:46.533 --> 00:12:50.148 But you can see a large chunk of this goes into patrol operations. 85 00:12:51.548 --> 00:12:58.130 We envisage a new precinct, but an increase across the board in most areas as well. 86 00:13:03.509 --> 00:13:07.466 So when we're looking at the assumptions, all of these numbers are in non-inflation-adjusted dollars. 87 00:13:08.047 --> 00:13:11.115 They use the average current compensation rates for each job classification. 88 00:13:11.596 --> 00:13:14.183 They don't include expected increases for future years. 89 00:13:16.071 --> 00:13:18.658 The model includes total taxpayer burden. 90 00:13:19.695 --> 00:13:22.639 Both the general fund and the FPDNR levy. 91 00:13:23.153 --> 00:13:28.332 Although those aren't city expenses, they are expenses to the taxpayer that are incurred because of city policy. 92 00:13:28.380 --> 00:13:29.562 So we did include them in the model. 93 00:13:31.616 --> 00:13:38.254 It includes core costs of salary and benefit staff and immediate costs like training. 94 00:13:38.674 --> 00:13:47.489 It does not include capital facilities, non-sworn support staff, recruitment spending, or equipment and vehicle procurement beyond initial officer outfitting. 95 00:13:48.785 --> 00:13:58.979 We think the recruitment and retention would cost approximately $3.5 million a year in training and onboarding costs in addition to other costs. 96 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:12.543 So you can see in the first year here, we add about $700,000 in costs, and that increases to a total of about $38 million above current levels by 2036. 97 00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:20.184 This is net of overtime savings, but not including the items that we didn't include. 98 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:37.284 In addition to these items, we think there's about $338 million in capital costs associated with new buildings and vehicle storage and, you know, places to put hundreds more offices. 99 00:14:39.979 --> 00:15:01.303 So in summary, this is what we estimate the costs to be, about $700,000 in the first year, going up to about $38 million annually by 10 years, factoring in about $340 million in capital costs over that period, plus the various other costs like vehicles that would be associated. 100 00:15:01.884 --> 00:15:02.839 Thank you for your patience. 101 00:15:02.918 --> 00:15:07.909 I understand there's a lot of dense information there, but I I'd like to pass it over to any questions you might have. 102 00:15:15.548 --> 00:15:26.035 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank the Public Safety Service Area and the, um, Portland Public, uh, the Portland Police Bureau for completing the report. 103 00:15:26.666 --> 00:15:28.249 Uh, is Aaron Smouts here? 104 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:38.346 Could you come up to the, to the table, please. 105 00:15:39.899 --> 00:16:06.024 In, in February, I introduced a resolution, uh, that would require Deputy City Administrator for, uh, Public Safety to provide a report on police officer recruitment goals and costs because council was being asked to make major decisions about police staffing without a complete picture of what would actually take— it would take to recruit, train, deploy, and sustain additional officers. 106 00:16:07.163 --> 00:16:31.596 Council adopted that resolution and directed the Deputy City Administrator for Public Safety to answer several fundamental questions: what the level and the organization structure of staffing would look like and support the public safety outcomes Portland expects, how long would it realistically take to recruit, hire, train, and deploy additional officers? 107 00:16:32.672 --> 00:16:37.884 What would that growth cost, not only at the point of hiring but over the long term? 108 00:16:38.431 --> 00:16:47.429 And what additional investments would be required in training, supervision, vehicles, equipment, facilities, uh, civilian staff, and professional development? 109 00:16:48.456 --> 00:16:56.432 And lastly, and how should Portland plan for these costs as our city and its public safety needs evolve over the next decade. 110 00:16:57.075 --> 00:17:03.528 So today's present— presentation is the result of that direction that was given in February. 111 00:17:04.186 --> 00:17:10.994 I appreciate staff providing council with a more, uh, transparent and fact-based foundation for this conversation. 112 00:17:11.669 --> 00:17:19.027 I want to emphasize that this report is not a final staffing plan, is it, um, Deputy, uh, Chief Hughes. 113 00:17:19.849 --> 00:17:23.674 And, and it does not recommend one specific number of officers. 114 00:17:23.804 --> 00:17:37.766 It gives council a framework for which to decide what services and outcomes we expect from PPB, um, and what staffing time, infrastructure, and funding will be required to deliver all these different, uh, subsets. 115 00:17:38.346 --> 00:17:55.530 So for me, um, since this is not a, a specific staffing plan, uh, Deputy Chief what additional analysis and community engagement are needed to turn it into an actionable workload-based staffing plan? 116 00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.913 Thank you for the question, Councilor Smith. 117 00:17:59.962 --> 00:18:02.083 Brian Hughes, Deputy Chief, Portland Police Bureau. 118 00:18:02.131 --> 00:18:03.538 I think you're spot on there. 119 00:18:03.604 --> 00:18:23.875 I think it would involve more public comment and input to help us to be more informed about exactly what the public wants to see with regards to right now we're under-resourced and not able to properly handle property crimes in an appropriate way, and that might be something that Portlanders are interested in. 120 00:18:24.243 --> 00:18:34.731 So this, uh, the allocations that you saw earlier in the slides were, uh, you know, what we would like to see and based on feedback that we're hearing from public. 121 00:18:34.813 --> 00:18:42.719 But I think if, you know, we were to go forward and actually have an honest conversation about properly resourcing this police department, I think we would have a different conversation. 122 00:18:43.295 --> 00:18:46.700 Then we would have those kinds of conversations to help direct that work. 123 00:18:47.894 --> 00:18:48.217 Thank you. 124 00:18:48.297 --> 00:18:49.442 I like that answer. 125 00:18:49.653 --> 00:18:56.228 And because we have to center what we do around what our community would like. 126 00:18:56.356 --> 00:19:04.991 And so having that kind of direction going forward, I think it's important and it's critical. 127 00:19:05.412 --> 00:19:22.875 And we would be intentional on making sure that we bring the public into a system that sometimes to them feels not as transparent as we should be, but centering all of our decisions around what, what the public says, I think it's very helpful. 128 00:19:25.580 --> 00:19:48.488 In terms of PPB to establish specific staffing requirements tied to the 7-minute high-priority response time goal, I know we've gotten a lot of pushback, and we've gotten a lot of criticism about how quickly we respond. 129 00:19:49.579 --> 00:20:00.628 If we could wave our magic wand today without any additional resources, are there ways that we can increase response time? 130 00:20:04.489 --> 00:20:17.127 I think we're at a point now where we're at a bare-bones organization and have trimmed a lot of the fat, especially in this year of budget cuts, to— we do the best we can and deploy the resources we have the best we can. 131 00:20:17.338 --> 00:20:29.469 So right now I say we're a very lean organization, and when we start talking about making a serious impact on response times, then we start having to have the honest discussion about growing this police department. 132 00:20:29.912 --> 00:20:40.037 So one of the things that I noted from the report that was the presentation that we just were given, it said that patrol officers didn't go down. 133 00:20:40.086 --> 00:20:42.364 It was at 332, if I'm not mistaken. 134 00:20:43.069 --> 00:20:43.471 That's correct. 135 00:20:44.048 --> 00:20:57.239 So if we have maintained 332 patrol, it seems to me that we should be able to respond quicker and that the majority of the decrease were in-office. 136 00:20:58.313 --> 00:21:03.892 Well, I'll defer to DC Hughes on this, but one thing that has changed is the nature of the calls. 137 00:21:04.003 --> 00:21:05.029 They are taking longer. 138 00:21:05.590 --> 00:21:12.612 We've also had policy changes like welfare hours that takes about 10% of patrol officers' time, and there are, there are various factors which have contributed to that. 139 00:21:12.820 --> 00:21:17.597 Okay, so what you're suggesting is that we still need additional patrol officers? 140 00:21:18.414 --> 00:21:29.106 Well, so the, the, the equation for patrol is you have the number of calls, the length of time a call takes, and the number of officers available to deal with them, and, you know, the time that they're spending. 141 00:21:29.268 --> 00:21:30.823 And you have to balance those 3 factors. 142 00:21:30.934 --> 00:21:42.573 You either drive down the number of calls by diverting them somewhere else or choosing not to respond to them at all, or you increase the number of officer time being spent on response, or you somehow manage to decrease the time it takes to respond to a call. 143 00:21:42.780 --> 00:21:46.259 But those are the 3 kind of primary elements that affect it. 144 00:21:46.884 --> 00:21:47.653 Okay, thank you. 145 00:21:48.007 --> 00:21:51.020 And my last question, Aaron, could you introduce yourself, please? 146 00:21:51.356 --> 00:21:51.517 Sure. 147 00:21:51.614 --> 00:21:53.345 Aaron Schmaltz, president of Portland Police Association. 148 00:21:54.323 --> 00:21:59.596 You came and gave a brief presentation at my Coffee with a Cop in community. 149 00:22:00.253 --> 00:22:08.249 There were a couple of things that you wanted to point out about the report that was critical, that you thought that the people needed to know about? 150 00:22:08.457 --> 00:22:18.444 And as Deputy Chief noted, that any further expansion of this report should also include the community and what they want. 151 00:22:19.118 --> 00:22:22.972 What were those items that you talked about that you thought were critical? 152 00:22:23.807 --> 00:22:24.722 I talked a lot at that meeting. 153 00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:33.240 You know, I think overall, historically, the police bureau has been structured improperly. 154 00:22:33.919 --> 00:22:42.936 The way that you look at our funding mechanism, I know there's a lot of conversation around our staffing and how people are hired and how we navigate, but the police bureau does not have an overtime budget. 155 00:22:42.984 --> 00:22:51.414 There was a budget note from 2020 that indicated that we needed to make sure that we were staffing properly and also ensuring that we had staffing trajectory. 156 00:22:52.558 --> 00:22:58.740 When you look at the police bureau, vacancy savings has been how we've paid for, uh, for overtime in the past. 157 00:22:58.949 --> 00:23:05.295 Um, and, um, but at the end of the day, you know, I look at, at the work we did, uh, with school police. 158 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.438 Um, I ran that program before it was, uh, disbanded. 159 00:23:11.047 --> 00:23:19.363 Um, as the police bureau has lost staffing, we've never really done a true gap assessment of the work that is missing as a result of us just plugging holes. 160 00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:32.984 Um, when we took the school police out of, of the Portland public ecosystem, we actually did a gap assessment, and everyone was pretty surprised about the holes that police fill in the absence of other resources. 161 00:23:33.402 --> 00:23:44.909 But I can tell you that, for instance, when we would have like a football game, we worked directly with Office of Violence Prevention, with other partners, to create and manifest a good safety plan working together. 162 00:23:45.823 --> 00:23:53.371 And I would just argue that as we continue to build other systems in Portland, unless we build those systems and ensure that our systems are working together, Right. 163 00:23:53.613 --> 00:23:55.587 We might as well just throw the money in the trash. 164 00:23:55.717 --> 00:24:11.758 Because the bottom line is, is if we're not— you know, you create PSR, you create, uh, you know, increased OVP, all these things are good, um, but if they're not working directly with and training with law enforcement to ensure that we have agreed-upon outcomes, we're never going to see any actual benefit for that investment. 165 00:24:14.122 --> 00:24:23.470 Yes, and, and I said this is my last question, but I want to direct this to, um, CA Lee, who's our, uh, interim, um, Public Safety DCA. 166 00:24:24.193 --> 00:24:45.132 One of the things that I learned, and, you know, this is like on-the-job training, and it's a master course in how to understand what actually goes on, but I was surprised to learn that fire had an overtime budget that was put into the budget. 167 00:24:45.684 --> 00:24:51.608 And Will you, will you do the same for the police going forward? 168 00:24:51.753 --> 00:24:55.876 Is that on the table for discussion to have an overtime budget for police? 169 00:24:57.031 --> 00:25:03.689 I think it's something that we can have a conversation with, with the police as we look at developing the mayor's proposed budget. 170 00:25:04.171 --> 00:25:17.148 I think it's something truly tangible that we have to look at when we look at the limited resources that we have from a resource standpoint, human capital, from officers being out on the street and the demand for more officers. 171 00:25:17.486 --> 00:25:22.993 As it relates to the number of calls that we have coming in and their ability to respond to them in a timely fashion. 172 00:25:23.587 --> 00:25:29.352 I think it really comes down to as well the level of service that we're looking for out of our police department. 173 00:25:29.865 --> 00:25:42.679 If we're looking for certain response times to be certain things or we're looking for them to respond to certain type of calls, I think that's a conversation that we have to have as it relates to the resources that we have to be able to do that. 174 00:25:43.016 --> 00:25:45.391 Does overtime help in this conversation? 175 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:45.584 Yes. 176 00:25:45.825 --> 00:25:47.974 Or do we need to add additional officers? 177 00:25:48.392 --> 00:25:52.115 I would just, you know, put this one little caveat out here as well too. 178 00:25:52.820 --> 00:26:08.675 We have to be cautious about the amount of overtime that we're asking officers to work because at that point in time, just like driving or anything else, once you work so many hours, your response time and your ability to respond to these things is reduced tremendously. 179 00:26:08.804 --> 00:26:19.611 So we wanna make sure that we're putting not only our officers but the public in the best safe, predictable predicament that we can put them in, considering the work that we're asking them to do. 180 00:26:20.142 --> 00:26:20.867 I agree. 181 00:26:20.964 --> 00:26:38.037 And I was pleasantly surprised that the report had that there was going to be a 2— if this was going to be implemented, that there was a 207% increase in community, you know, activity in community policing. 182 00:26:38.215 --> 00:26:41.365 And I was personally, just happy to see that. 183 00:26:42.009 --> 00:26:42.444 Thank you. 184 00:26:45.086 --> 00:26:45.795 Councilor Murillo. 185 00:26:46.778 --> 00:26:52.297 And by the way, I think that I'm going to hope that we can hold ourselves to like 5 minutes apiece so that we have time for a second round. 186 00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:55.700 No, it's not going to be 5 minutes. 187 00:26:55.765 --> 00:26:56.626 I have a lot to say on this. 188 00:26:56.886 --> 00:27:01.114 And if we're going to set standards for people on the committee, it has to be universal. 189 00:27:02.922 --> 00:27:04.763 Thank you guys for coming today and for sharing this report. 190 00:27:05.727 --> 00:27:10.153 I do have some pretty big concerns about the process that went into creating this report. 191 00:27:11.115 --> 00:27:20.833 A community member sent my office the results of a public records request that included 12 pages of feedback from PPB to LEADS in the public safety service area. 192 00:27:21.442 --> 00:27:27.873 And my reading of the report compared to this feedback is that a lot of correcting information and feedback is missing in this report. 193 00:27:28.354 --> 00:27:49.892 And that includes definitions and the characterizations of the I was really struck by the fact that there is consideration for a new 4th precinct and that there was direct PBV feedback that they were unfamiliar with the research done to identify the 4th pre— 4-precinct model and are curious about what factors are included to inform the need for them. 194 00:27:49.972 --> 00:27:52.502 So I'm very curious about that assertion as well. 195 00:27:54.309 --> 00:28:18.451 So before I get into my questions, I just wanted to name some of that I was really struck by 3 things in the report that could be done to improve staffing and retention that don't include hiring new officers right away, and I want to talk about those a little bit because I feel like these are important areas to understand and work on before we launch into any kind of new hiring or staffing or investment plan. 196 00:28:19.432 --> 00:28:31.278 For the call response times, on page 16 of the report, it It says that the call response times have gone up at the same time that the number of calls, or low, medium, and high priority calls, have gone down. 197 00:28:32.097 --> 00:28:39.413 In fact, response times to high priority calls have gone up the most at the same time that they have seen the greatest decrease in call volume. 198 00:28:40.297 --> 00:28:47.452 The report states this information, which is, I think, good to acknowledge, but it doesn't really explain why this would be. 199 00:28:48.304 --> 00:28:52.459 And something other than workload seems to be impacting call response times. 200 00:28:53.388 --> 00:29:03.916 So before we suggest adding any new officers, we should understand what the driver is for this and how we might correct for it in order to inform us for an actual staffing position. 201 00:29:04.829 --> 00:29:15.260 Because I, you know, sitting in this committee, we keep hearing the calls are just taking longer, but I have no clarity on why the calls are suddenly taking longer, what those factors are. 202 00:29:15.309 --> 00:29:26.488 And I think that's really critical because maybe our officers are initiating calls that are unnecessary, maybe, uh, you know, there's a lot of different things, but I would like to know why so we can make that decision. 203 00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:36.721 The report also, um, so does the Bureau have a plan to explore what might be the root cause of some of these calls taking longer than they did before? 204 00:29:38.500 --> 00:30:02.730 Councilor, yes, we initiated that discussion with you all 2 weeks ago in this committee and are continuing the work to look at a better way of explaining that through the president of the— I'm sorry, the chair of the committee, and plan to come back at future meetings to discuss it more in depth, to have a more robust discussion on why the calls are taking longer. 205 00:30:03.036 --> 00:30:13.055 Certainly de-escalation is part of that, and time is part of that, giving people the ability to make better choices, use time as a tactic. 206 00:30:13.633 --> 00:30:16.987 De-escalation as a tactic, number of officers as a tactic. 207 00:30:17.083 --> 00:30:22.667 There was an incident just this week up at the library, I think it was on Sunday, where a person had what we believed to be a gun. 208 00:30:23.422 --> 00:30:30.162 Turned out it was a BB gun and was waving it around, uh, real populated area. 209 00:30:30.563 --> 00:30:37.255 If you've seen any of the social media posts on that, there's been several, but you see a good 7, 8, 9 police officers standing there. 210 00:30:37.544 --> 00:30:38.586 Those are just the ones you see. 211 00:30:38.667 --> 00:30:44.785 There's other ones you can't see that are in the street to ensure somebody doesn't drive down or walk down into the middle of what we're trying to do there. 212 00:30:45.972 --> 00:30:51.978 We were able to use time and get additional resources there, including— you may have seen the police shield. 213 00:30:52.075 --> 00:31:00.696 They're holding a big shield so they can safely go up and deal with this person, put them in handcuffs, and take the— what turned out to be a BB gun away from them. 214 00:31:01.290 --> 00:31:06.878 But that's like a very visual reminder this week of what, you know, that looks like in practice. 215 00:31:07.232 --> 00:31:12.660 And And, you know, a decade ago, I was asked the question here 2 weeks ago what that might have looked like. 216 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:17.059 And I don't know that we would've spent that much time on a call like that. 217 00:31:17.059 --> 00:31:25.460 But, you know, through the settlement agreement and looking at how we operate as a police bureau, that's one of the changes we've made for the better that had a better outcome. 218 00:31:25.460 --> 00:31:30.210 So we'll come back at future CAPS presentations and dive into those a little bit more for you. 219 00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:31.440 Thank you. 220 00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:32.140 I appreciate that. 221 00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:33.940 I think it'll be helpful for us to get more clarity. 222 00:31:34.019 --> 00:31:37.599 And we appreciate that if there are efforts in de-escalation, I think that's great. 223 00:31:39.816 --> 00:31:49.701 The report also notes a number of concrete examples about how police could further reduce their call and workload by shifting work to other agencies or from sworn to non-sworn staff. 224 00:31:50.284 --> 00:32:00.430 I thought that was pretty interesting, and I think that we should prioritize recalibrating workload before we work on staffing so that we are making a proposal from the right starting point. 225 00:32:02.090 --> 00:32:16.325 One example that stood out to me in the report was that in April 2026, the Call Allocation Working Group recommended that approximately 14,000 welfare check calls could shift from PPB to Portland Street Response. 226 00:32:16.854 --> 00:32:22.192 And the report also suggests that it would take 4 to 5 years to fully realize that shift in call load. 227 00:32:23.185 --> 00:32:29.807 Can you tell me why it would take that 4 to 5 years to shift that call load or how we can make this a priority? 228 00:32:30.384 --> 00:32:36.555 Yeah, in addition to the expansion plan that Portland Street Response currently has, that represents about a doubling of their capacity. 229 00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:37.480 What would it look like in practice if we were trying to speed up that process? 230 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:47.599 Well, I think we have a lot of work to do in terms of capacity, and there's just a training pipeline and an expansion tempo that, you know, that is the estimate from Portland Street Response of what that would take. 231 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:55.990 I mean, there are— I guess there are ways to speed that up if we wanted to invest dramatically in it, but, you know, doubling the size of an agency is a painful process. 232 00:33:03.771 --> 00:33:06.067 I would defer to Portland Street Response on that question. 233 00:33:06.115 --> 00:33:07.942 That's just sort of more of an operational area for them. 234 00:33:08.978 --> 00:33:09.123 Okay. 235 00:33:11.710 --> 00:33:12.082 That's fine. 236 00:33:12.194 --> 00:33:14.084 We can ask that in the next meeting we cover this. 237 00:33:14.212 --> 00:33:16.650 But I think that that's interesting, right? 238 00:33:16.714 --> 00:33:30.107 Because if there are 14,000 welfare calls where we have calls all the time in the city of actual violent incidents that we need police to respond to, and they— I don't think you should be spending your time on welfare calls. 239 00:33:30.373 --> 00:33:37.076 That's things that other people are trained for, and police are some of our most expensive employees. 240 00:33:37.619 --> 00:33:48.820 So anytime that they're responding to something where it's not an immediate violent crime, we are spending the maximum amount of tax dollars and staff resources to respond to that type of call. 241 00:33:50.560 --> 00:34:01.869 On page 19 of the report, we also noted that officer-initiated calls have been in the 21 to 23% range Or about 42,000 to 46,000 calls. 242 00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:09.251 The report says that these are calls where officers are spending a greater percentage of patrol time on self-initiated activities. 243 00:34:09.989 --> 00:34:25.458 And then on page 21, the report says that there is not enough capacity to investigate child abuse cases, domestic violence, property crimes, elder fraud, or white-collar crime, and that before we consider staffing up investigations, we need to staff up patrol. 244 00:34:25.507 --> 00:34:25.619 Thank you. 245 00:34:26.356 --> 00:34:34.724 Has the Bureau considered limiting officer-initiated calls in favor of improving call response times and investigation capacity needs? 246 00:34:36.072 --> 00:34:37.130 Thank you for the question, Councilor. 247 00:34:37.177 --> 00:34:38.076 You know, that's a balance. 248 00:34:38.541 --> 00:34:43.382 That's a balance that we constantly face with regards to the work that we do. 249 00:34:43.608 --> 00:34:54.478 A lot of the self-initiated work is traffic stops, and as I said 2 weeks ago, high crash corridor, trying to reduce fatal crashes is an aspect of that, but then our stolen vehicle missions. 250 00:34:54.672 --> 00:34:56.567 They just did their last one on Saturday night. 251 00:34:56.614 --> 00:34:57.289 I'm so proud of them. 252 00:34:57.385 --> 00:35:02.603 I listened for about 15 minutes while I was attending an immigrant refugee welcoming week event at ERCO. 253 00:35:03.101 --> 00:35:06.360 And in that 15 minutes, I think they recovered 3 or 4 stolen cars. 254 00:35:07.034 --> 00:35:15.224 And I'm thinking, okay, that's 3 or 4 cars that we're going to get back to somebody that's probably just trying to make a living in this city and needs their car to do that. 255 00:35:16.010 --> 00:35:23.429 So, I mean, that's a giant bucket of self-initiated activity work that that we intentionally do, and I'm supportive of it. 256 00:35:23.494 --> 00:35:25.644 We'll continue doing it, but it's a balance. 257 00:35:25.724 --> 00:35:26.014 You're right. 258 00:35:26.367 --> 00:35:29.643 And we have to balance, you know, the call load and response times. 259 00:35:30.382 --> 00:35:33.224 But when we look at the call response times, we also break that down as well. 260 00:35:33.432 --> 00:35:43.322 You know, we have, you know, a car gets broken into and how long we respond to that versus how long we respond to the weapons calls that we discussed 2 weeks ago. 261 00:35:43.949 --> 00:35:45.860 And, you know, we are thank you. 262 00:35:46.036 --> 00:35:51.309 We are placing a priority on responding to the immediate high priority 1 calls. 263 00:35:51.981 --> 00:36:13.938 Unfortunately, the way priority calls are banked right now, as your report suggested 2 weeks ago, that includes the top 3 priorities, which is not only somebody could be injured right now or is being injured right now or there's a weapon involved, somebody could be injured to the third one, which is a crime is occurring now, any crime is occurring now. 264 00:36:14.034 --> 00:36:15.972 So it's constant balance. 265 00:36:16.326 --> 00:36:16.550 Right. 266 00:36:17.063 --> 00:36:22.961 And then, you know, you have those life safety priorities, and then you also have kind of what is a customer service priority. 267 00:36:23.074 --> 00:36:24.693 You know, what are the expectations of Portlanders? 268 00:36:24.757 --> 00:36:31.936 If somebody's car gets broken into, do I get a police response within an hour or, you know, 5 hours or 6 hours? 269 00:36:32.610 --> 00:36:40.849 I'd say on a day like Sunday when all the officers downtown are dealing with the person we believe to be armed, that's going to look quite a bit different. 270 00:36:41.521 --> 00:36:52.965 So I know that's a long-winded answer to your question, but— You know, self-initiated work is an important part of what we do to keep the city safe. 271 00:36:53.318 --> 00:36:53.880 So for clarity—. 272 00:36:53.880 --> 00:37:02.726 So, Councilor Morillo, I'm gonna have to ask to move on to Councilor Zimmerman, 'cause I think that we do wanna get this done by 10:30, and you've had 10 minutes. 273 00:37:02.775 --> 00:37:05.344 That leaves about 8 minutes for each of the rest of us. 274 00:37:05.681 --> 00:37:06.516 So Councilor Zimmerman. 275 00:37:10.746 --> 00:37:33.233 Okay, um, I'm interested in— I don't know that I have the right language to describe the, the function that I'm talking about, but what number of trainee slots does the Bureau need every year above what we consider the full staffing model? 276 00:37:33.686 --> 00:37:36.318 And I, and I say that from right. 277 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.389 You all know I've spent a long time in the Army. 278 00:37:39.208 --> 00:37:49.744 We have a pipeline of recruits that we know this many hundred thousand need to go to basic training every year to keep up with whatever the Army says is the minimum standard for the country. 279 00:37:50.530 --> 00:37:59.074 Fire is kind of similar in terms of getting toward where they can start overstaffing so that they always have somebody in the pipeline. 280 00:37:59.123 --> 00:38:02.367 So I'm trying to get a sense of what that looks like eventually. 281 00:38:02.737 --> 00:38:14.152 And that would— that is somewhat unrelated to are we an 850-officer town, a 1,000-officer town. 282 00:38:14.282 --> 00:38:27.266 It's what is the percentage to, or how much do you address it to, keeping that pipeline always ready and always coming out of training to replace the next retiree? 283 00:38:27.347 --> 00:38:28.960 I guess I'm trying to get a sense of sense of that? 284 00:38:29.474 --> 00:38:44.543 Because the way we, we do a lot is we— because we're in this situation of so many vacancies, I think it hasn't allowed me to understand just what is that, that churn number if we weren't in the vacancy moment. 285 00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:48.663 If we were at full staffing moment still, how many overages do we need to have to be in that? 286 00:38:48.775 --> 00:38:50.347 And I'm kind of curious about that. 287 00:38:50.860 --> 00:38:52.367 Yeah, I don't have the answer to that question. 288 00:38:52.414 --> 00:38:53.744 That's a fascinating question though. 289 00:38:53.938 --> 00:38:57.088 To think, 'cause we're gonna be pushing that 877 number here. 290 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:06.545 Chief Day's very focused on hiring and we'll, at the beginning of October here, bring in another double-digit class of hire. 291 00:39:07.177 --> 00:39:07.355 Yeah. 292 00:39:07.403 --> 00:39:08.278 You know, new officers. 293 00:39:12.105 --> 00:39:19.963 The problem with the city in our police bureau and hiring and attrition and everything else is we've hired in waves, right? 294 00:39:20.125 --> 00:39:20.204 Right. 295 00:39:21.295 --> 00:39:22.835 Which then hurts us 25 years later. 296 00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:24.442 Sure does, yeah, when they all retire. 297 00:39:25.083 --> 00:39:27.251 So hard to average that. 298 00:39:27.702 --> 00:39:31.619 I don't know that we're seeing as many kind of retirement waves coming. 299 00:39:32.293 --> 00:39:35.119 There are still the favorable pay periods for people to retire. 300 00:39:35.184 --> 00:39:37.688 And so we expect to lose a certain amount. 301 00:39:37.753 --> 00:39:43.789 So I can bring that back to the team and see, but it'll be interesting to see 'cause there's 2 buckets to what you just talked about. 302 00:39:43.838 --> 00:39:49.597 It's that attrition with people leaving the Bureau and then it's also the day-to-day, you know, you have officers in training. 303 00:39:49.869 --> 00:39:58.253 We'll send officers for, you know, I think right now it's 2 days in person and we'll need to be able to cover the street while they're in that training. 304 00:39:58.349 --> 00:40:01.219 And we either do it on overtime or we do it with additional staffing. 305 00:40:01.347 --> 00:40:03.831 So yeah, I can break those 2 out and get back to you. 306 00:40:04.217 --> 00:40:04.889 Can I comment? 307 00:40:04.938 --> 00:40:06.028 I had a sense you wanted to weigh in. 308 00:40:06.125 --> 00:40:06.717 Yeah, please. 309 00:40:06.766 --> 00:40:07.550 I was leaning in, I think. 310 00:40:07.728 --> 00:40:08.016 Yeah. 311 00:40:09.170 --> 00:40:15.170 You know, I mean, to Chief's point, you know, the history of staffing in the police bureau, we knew things were coming. 312 00:40:15.282 --> 00:40:18.829 There were a couple hiring freezes in around '14 and around '17. 313 00:40:18.893 --> 00:40:26.692 But also, you know, you look at where our staffing is now, if I'm correct, and if I'm wrong in the data, I'm sure one of you will point it out. 314 00:40:26.757 --> 00:40:32.661 But in 2019, we had about 9 people in the training status because we were pretty fully staffed. 315 00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:35.038 And that number's above 100 today. 316 00:40:35.197 --> 00:40:40.733 So that 330 number that we have available on patrol over a third of them actually aren't. 317 00:40:41.262 --> 00:40:42.931 And so that piece matters. 318 00:40:43.605 --> 00:40:51.753 We're also seeing that our agency in the center of our staffing has a gap as a result of a bunch of people leaving in 2020. 319 00:40:51.849 --> 00:40:55.907 And so I think it's pushing half of the police bureau has less than 5 years on. 320 00:40:56.420 --> 00:41:01.329 And so our training officers are very junior, which I think is a structural deficit. 321 00:41:02.516 --> 00:41:08.967 And I mean, it used to be a big deal to become a coach, and now we're just really kind of please everyone be a coach, 'cause you have, if you're gonna staff quickly. 322 00:41:09.978 --> 00:41:26.255 And lastly, comparing us to fire is just completely not possible because fire has like both local and national standards around, you know, we must have 171 butts in the seat at all time to ensure for a lot of different structural things that matter in fire safety. 323 00:41:27.009 --> 00:41:33.958 The police bureau has never, we have mandatory minimums, but we don't meet 'em and we don't have mandatory overtime, which I'll tell you right now, Yeah. 324 00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:39.739 To the city administrator's point, I don't want— like, people say all the time that I just want my members making a bunch of overtime. 325 00:41:40.059 --> 00:41:42.719 When I was new, there was no overtime. 326 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:47.849 We would all be sitting waiting on the radio for someone to ask to get a couple hours because we weren't getting paid very much then either. 327 00:41:48.019 --> 00:41:54.670 But I would love to have a fully staffed agency where no one got any overtime and everyone just worked 40 hours because it's better for everyone. 328 00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:03.139 And so I think what the one thing the city has never done is set like a 10-year longitudinal plan of this is where we want to be year over year. 329 00:42:03.139 --> 00:42:03.360 This is where we want this to be 10 years from now. 330 00:42:03.342 --> 00:42:05.349 Is how we wanna partner with all of our different groups. 331 00:42:05.653 --> 00:42:11.081 This is what a fully funded, fully woven public safety model looks, not just for police, but for everyone. 332 00:42:11.594 --> 00:42:14.485 And we set those goals and we meet them and we don't change it. 333 00:42:14.581 --> 00:42:18.900 And it's hard because politics change, but policing isn't political. 334 00:42:18.996 --> 00:42:21.454 Policing as far as staffing shouldn't be political. 335 00:42:22.769 --> 00:42:26.592 I agree in that 10-year trajectory and I appreciate both these answers. 336 00:42:29.673 --> 00:42:36.512 I think that we are lacking a designator for our patrol officers, actually all officers. 337 00:42:36.576 --> 00:42:39.335 We're lacking a designator for their readiness level. 338 00:42:40.186 --> 00:42:43.606 And right, I'm putting my kind of Army hat on here 'cause that's the language I have. 339 00:42:43.717 --> 00:42:46.318 But readiness meaning they're ready for the mission. 340 00:42:47.072 --> 00:42:52.514 That doesn't mean trainee, that doesn't mean DPSS-T, that doesn't mean in, you know, a ride-along kind of thing. 341 00:42:52.706 --> 00:42:55.820 It means how many are out of training and ready to go. 342 00:42:55.916 --> 00:42:57.489 Otherwise, we call them trainees until—. 343 00:42:57.489 --> 00:42:57.568 Right. 344 00:42:57.650 --> 00:42:57.746 Okay. 345 00:42:57.827 --> 00:43:03.398 And so I think that that would be a helpful designator in the way that data is presented. 346 00:43:03.543 --> 00:43:20.106 If in case we do have such a large number who are really not actually available for a patrol shift alone in the traditional sense, then I don't want them included in a staffing presentation without an asterisk, right? 347 00:43:20.155 --> 00:43:21.630 So that we can understand that. 348 00:43:25.536 --> 00:43:33.710 I have mentioned in this committee before, and I do want to get to the place where every time the police bureau doesn't hit minimum staffing in one of our precincts, that it's a red star cluster up. 349 00:43:33.951 --> 00:43:45.507 And I think we need to start letting the, the public and the city administrator and the mayor and those— this council know how many days, how many shifts a year are going below minimum staffing, right? 350 00:43:45.572 --> 00:43:47.110 Other agencies can do that. 351 00:43:47.175 --> 00:44:07.094 I think that we should incorporate that into our culture because I actually think I think that Portlanders have not been made as aware of how many times that they are going about their business and the city's police bureau is below minimum staffing while the city's fire bureau has a mandatory overtime so that they don't hit below minimum staffing. 352 00:44:07.141 --> 00:44:15.635 I just think that— because I don't disagree on— you heard me last time, I think, talk about this, and I'm not getting to a place where I want to have a bunch of folks on overtime. 353 00:44:15.923 --> 00:44:16.934 I actually disagree with you. 354 00:44:17.192 --> 00:44:19.440 I agree with you, President Schmaltz. 355 00:44:19.505 --> 00:44:29.753 I think that overtime is the worst-case scenario, and getting to a place where you are ready with your 40 hours, you're awake and spry, okay. 356 00:44:30.605 --> 00:44:34.025 You get into 50, 60, 80 hours, and I think we're in dangerous territory. 357 00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:49.603 But I don't know that we are letting the public and the City Council know just how often that if we were a minimum staffing agency, We would have— we would have somebody more on overtime, or that we would— how far we are below. 358 00:44:50.534 --> 00:45:02.498 So I'm just thinking through some of those things, but I do think that getting a sense for, of the 300 and some odd patrol officers, how many are trainees, is a critical need to better understand our current pipeline. 359 00:45:02.706 --> 00:45:24.012 And in the 10-year trajectory and looking at trend models, having an understanding for what is the authorization above what is considered the full staffing model for the Portland Police Bureau in order to incorporate the trainee number each year and what that flow looks like, I think is how in the longer term we get ahead of this. 360 00:45:25.231 --> 00:45:40.668 To the debate about size of the bureau and et cetera, like, I think I'm pretty clear in terms of where I think to go, but I don't think that this aspect of the conversation— Mr. Mayor, I think— I don't think this aspect of the conversation actually changes based on the size of the bureau because it's a modeling aspect. 361 00:45:40.717 --> 00:45:41.791 So I'd be looking for that. 362 00:45:42.402 --> 00:45:44.760 And I appreciate Councilor Smith bringing this forward. 363 00:45:44.807 --> 00:45:46.396 I want to hear more of the conversation, Chair. 364 00:45:46.733 --> 00:45:46.974 Thanks. 365 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:48.177 Thank you, Councilor. 366 00:45:48.242 --> 00:45:48.771 Councilor Kanal. 367 00:45:49.684 --> 00:45:51.257 Just a clarifying question, Chair. 368 00:45:52.043 --> 00:45:54.369 Is this the only time we're going to get a chance to talk about this? 369 00:45:54.434 --> 00:46:01.108 Because I think this is a higher priority than at least the second item on the agenda, and I'd be open to tabling that one or pushing it back a meeting. 370 00:46:02.175 --> 00:46:06.443 Well, the second item on the agenda has been before us numerous times. 371 00:46:06.492 --> 00:46:07.737 I want to make sure that we get through it. 372 00:46:08.010 --> 00:46:19.643 This is not the only time we're going to be talking certainly about— I mean, I've already said I want to have another session on response times, and I'm going to indicate some of the things that I think that need to be addressed. 373 00:46:21.971 --> 00:46:27.067 But I really want to make sure that we get through the second item and the third item. 374 00:46:27.244 --> 00:46:27.583 Thank you. 375 00:46:28.318 --> 00:46:34.675 Yeah, I guess I could maybe give it a little latitude and stretch us until 10:37, but I don't want to go beyond that. 376 00:46:35.141 --> 00:46:45.733 Okay, I really want the fact that some of our questions are not going to get asked to not be taken as we agree with the things we didn't get to cover and just wanted to get that on the record first. 377 00:46:46.344 --> 00:46:48.092 I want to start— thanks everybody for being here. 378 00:46:48.141 --> 00:46:52.105 I want to start with commending Chief Day and the Personnel Division for the hiring that's been going on. 379 00:46:52.217 --> 00:46:53.309 And Chief Hughes, you mentioned that. 380 00:46:53.780 --> 00:46:58.139 I've been supportive of filling vacancies, have been since started working at the city in 2021. 381 00:46:58.576 --> 00:47:01.054 I think we need to talk about what the target we're hiring to is. 382 00:47:01.168 --> 00:47:04.659 That's separate, as I think was noted, but we can talk about that. 383 00:47:04.724 --> 00:47:26.110 I think one of the things that has been coming up as we look at these trainee counts is that many of the— much of the staffing time— sorry, the staffing numbers that we're seeing include people that absent any changes to hiring or the number of officers will be fully ready in the months ahead, right? 384 00:47:26.173 --> 00:47:27.731 There's a bunch of people in the pipeline right now. 385 00:47:28.405 --> 00:47:32.710 And so I think that's, that's something that we should take into account as we're looking at where we want to get to. 386 00:47:33.465 --> 00:47:46.344 I also think, just by way of framing, I remain categorically opposed to hiring freezes in public safety, and also that we've historically said that public safety just means police and fire, but also BOEC, Portland Street Response, the whole public safety system. 387 00:47:46.407 --> 00:47:51.273 And I was really concerned when last year the hiring freeze was partially applied to public safety. 388 00:47:52.012 --> 00:47:55.851 I also wanted to pick up Councilor Zimmerman's thread about overhiring for training. 389 00:47:56.686 --> 00:48:07.958 Maybe fire's not the best comparison, but BOEC also has a similar thing, and I know labor's more familiar with that, at least that one, because PPA also represents some of the employees at BOEC as well. 390 00:48:08.570 --> 00:48:12.278 With relation to minimums, I think that I agree that we should show when we make them or not. 391 00:48:12.344 --> 00:48:18.432 I think the challenge that we have is we don't have A consensus view of what minimums are in terms of numbers. 392 00:48:18.789 --> 00:48:32.445 When I've dug into that deeply last time, or 2 times ago now, I was told that the primary, not only factor, was historic staffing patterns from a time with different crime patterns, different 911 call volumes, and a different first responder ecosystem that excludes PSR and more. 393 00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:33.681 So I'd like to figure that all out. 394 00:48:36.065 --> 00:48:39.590 On slide 6, Nikki said that the patrol staffing level has been pretty stable. 395 00:48:39.963 --> 00:48:43.715 The decline in officers has not affected— has not really affected patrol staffing levels. 396 00:48:43.764 --> 00:48:46.105 It's been taken from other areas of the Bureau. 397 00:48:46.492 --> 00:48:53.545 And then we've seen, as Councilor Murillo pointed out, calls going down, response times going up, in particular for high priority calls, and staffing remaining stable. 398 00:48:53.690 --> 00:48:56.318 I think we've talked about the complexity of calls. 399 00:48:56.367 --> 00:48:57.253 I think that's important. 400 00:48:57.318 --> 00:49:00.012 We've talked about welfare hours, which are just a good thing to do. 401 00:49:01.454 --> 00:49:04.331