{ "meetingId": "2026-09-15-cpsc-1", "title": "Portland City Council Community & Public Safety Committee 09/15/26", "date": "2026-09-15T09:30:00-07:00", "duration": 183, "videoUrl": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRh5FCM9hb8", "videoId": "sRh5FCM9hb8", "agendaUrl": "https://www.portland.gov/council/agenda/community-and-public-safety-committee/2026/9/15", "agendaItems": [ { "number": 2, "title": "Portland Police expansion cost report", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-314" }, { "number": 3, "title": "Amend Code related to prohibitions on possession of firearms within certain City buildings to disallow affirmative defense for persons with concealed handgun licenses (amend Code Sections 3.18.020, 14A.60.010 and 20.12.050)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/protecting-public-buildings" }, { "number": 4, "title": "Amend Prohibited Conduct Code to update ejections and exclusions for drug possession, weapon possession, and abuse in parks (amend Code Chapter 20.12)", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/safe-parks" } ], "summary": "**The Community and Public Safety Committee laid a firearms ordinance on the table 3-2 after passing an amendment to it 5-0, deferring a proposal to strip the concealed-handgun defense for guns carried into three downtown city buildings.** ([01:51:24](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:51:24))\n\nSteve Novick (District 3) chaired the meeting. The committee approved its July–August minutes by unanimous consent ([00:07:29](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:07:29)) and took up three items.\n\n## Firearms in city buildings tabled after procedural clash\n\nThe ordinance, introduced by Council President Jamie Dunphy (District 1) on behalf of the administration, would remove the affirmative defense that lets concealed-handgun-license holders carry into City Hall, the Portland Building and the 1900 Building. The City Administrator said the idea grew from Multnomah County's move to bar firearms from its meetings and from an incident in which a person breached a secured area, and that he wanted a safe environment \"as tensions are rising\" on many dais conversations ([01:14:39](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:14:39)).\n\nDunphy said city HR policy has barred staff from carrying since 2002, and that the highest penalty for a violation would be a Class A misdemeanor, adding that a person \"would need to make a lot of compounding bad decisions\" before police became involved ([01:17:09](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:17:09)). The committee passed his amendment 5-0, directing the City Administrator to write administrative rules that start with education and an opportunity to store a weapon before any law-enforcement referral ([01:31:58](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:31:58)).\n\nEric Zimmerman (District 4) challenged that framing: \"that's actually not how laws are enforced,\" calling the measure \"a solution in search of a problem\" and a \"pet project\" brought back \"every couple weeks with no substantive difference\" ([01:24:23](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:24:23)). He said a September 1 public records request seeking the item's origin had gone unanswered 14 days later: \"I don't take kindly to what I felt was a reasonable request\" ([01:32:13](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:32:13)). Sameer Kanal (District 2), questioning limits on councilor briefings tied to quorum rules, said, \"If any state legislators are listening to this, this is absurd\" ([01:39:07](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:39:07)).\n\nZimmerman moved to table the ordinance with no date. A drawn-out exchange followed over whether the motion was a \"table\" or a \"postpone indefinitely,\" which the clerk warned would kill the item; Zimmerman kept his original motion, saying it \"more reflects my intent\" ([01:50:47](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:50:47)). The committee laid the item on the table 3-2, with Novick and Angelita Morillo (District 3) voting no ([01:51:24](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:51:24)). Loretta Smith (District 1) had said she was prepared to support the ordinance but that lawful owners \"must receive clear notice\" of the change ([01:29:07](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@01:29:07)).\n\n## Police expansion cost report placed on file\n\nA report requested by Smith's February resolution laid out what growing the Portland Police Bureau would cost. Performance analyst Nick McDonald said a mid-range 10-year model adds about **$700,000 the first year, rising to roughly $38 million a year above current levels by 2036**, net of overtime savings, plus about **$340 million in capital costs** for buildings and vehicle storage ([00:14:39](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:14:39)). He said overtime could be cut by two-thirds by 2036, saving about $13 million a year ([00:12:07](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:12:07)). Smith stressed the report \"is not a final staffing plan\" but a framework, and welcomed a projected 207% increase in community policing activity ([00:26:20](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:26:20)).\n\nMorillo said a public records request had surfaced \"12 pages of feedback from PPB\" she believed was missing from the report, and questioned a proposed fourth precinct the bureau itself had said it was unfamiliar with the research behind ([00:26:54](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:26:54)). She pressed on why response times rose while call volume fell, and noted the report's finding that about 14,000 welfare-check calls could shift to Portland Street Response over four to five years ([00:32:30](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:32:30)). Deputy Chief Brian Hughes said the bureau is \"a very lean organization\" and that reducing response times means \"the honest discussion about growing this police department\" ([00:20:04](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:20:04)).\n\nAaron Schmautz, president of the Portland Police Association, told the committee the bureau \"does not have an overtime budget\" and that officers in training status rose from about 9 in 2019 to above 100 today, with roughly 200 fewer officers than 20 years ago ([00:23:02](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:23:02)). Zimmerman asked for a \"readiness\" designator so trainees are not counted as available patrol. Kanal said he is \"categorically opposed to hiring freezes in public safety\" and blamed prior leadership for delaying Portland Street Response ([00:57:20](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@00:57:20)). Novick pressed staff to reconcile the report's statement of \"fewer available patrol officers\" with McDonald's testimony that patrol staffing held near 332. The report was placed on file.\n\n## Parks conduct-code changes get first airing\n\nZimmerman presented an ordinance to raise minimum park exclusions to **90 days** for elevated violations and for drug and weapons offenses, escalate repeat offenses to a 180-day zone exclusion on a second violation and a 365-day citywide exclusion on a third, remove the automatic stay of an exclusion when it is appealed, extend exclusions to adjacent sidewalks and right-of-way, and require officers to document why they decline to issue an exclusion ([02:07:50](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@02:07:50)). He said it makes no new conduct illegal, cited 16 exclusions last year across a list of parks — four in the elevated category — out of 257 citywide, and offered to drop the sidewalk provision: \"If that's not going to work, I think we pull it.\"\n\nSmith said \"communities of color will be targeted\" for longer bans and \"I won't be supporting this\" ([02:21:36](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@02:21:36)). Ryan Swift-Major, business manager of Laborers Local 483, testified that the plan ignores community centers, where staff have no recourse against someone carrying a machete except calling rangers, and that \"park rangers weren't reached out to\" ([02:31:52](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@02:31:52)). Zimmerman disputed that — \"All of those were in the room\" — and called reaching past management to frontline staff \"a strange standard.\" Vicente Harrison, Health Safety Emergency Manager for Portland Parks and Recreation, said the bureau has **29 permanent rangers** plus 11 seasonal for about 144 developed parks and 12 community centers, meaning six to eight rangers cover the city at any time ([02:41:28](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@02:41:28)). A police captain called the documentation requirement a possible \"unfunded mandate\" and burden on response times ([02:57:22](meeting:2026-09-15-cpsc-1@02:57:22)). The item was continued for further vetting.\n\n## What's next\n\nThe firearms ordinance sits tabled and can return only by a later motion from the chair or a committee member; the amendment directs the City Administrator to draft administrative rules on covered buildings and enforcement. The parks ordinance was continued, with Zimmerman open to pulling the sidewalk provision and reworking the documentation rule, and Morillo requesting data on exclusions issued, appealed and reversed plus a frontline-staff briefing. Novick said the committee will take up police response times again, with the bureau to return with data on call-length drivers and trainee readiness.", "summaryText": "The Community and Public Safety Committee laid a firearms ordinance on the table 3-2 after passing an amendment to it 5-0, deferring a proposal to strip the concealed-handgun defense for guns carried into three downtown city buildings. (01:51:24)\n\nSteve Novick (District 3) chaired the meeting. The committee approved its July–August minutes by unanimous consent (00:07:29) and took up three items.\n\nThe ordinance, introduced by Council President Jamie Dunphy (District 1) on behalf of the administration, would remove the affirmative defense that lets concealed-handgun-license holders carry into City Hall, the Portland Building and the 1900 Building. The City Administrator said the idea grew from Multnomah County's move to bar firearms from its meetings and from an incident in which a person breached a secured area, and that he wanted a safe environment \"as tensions are rising\" on many dais conversations (01:14:39).\n\nDunphy said city HR policy has barred staff from carrying since 2002, and that the highest penalty for a violation would be a Class A misdemeanor, adding that a person \"would need to make a lot of compounding bad decisions\" before police became involved (01:17:09). The committee passed his amendment 5-0, directing the City Administrator to write administrative rules that start with education and an opportunity to store a weapon before any law-enforcement referral (01:31:58).\n\nEric Zimmerman (District 4) challenged that framing: \"that's actually not how laws are enforced,\" calling the measure \"a solution in search of a problem\" and a \"pet project\" brought back \"every couple weeks with no substantive difference\" (01:24:23). He said a September 1 public records request seeking the item's origin had gone unanswered 14 days later: \"I don't take kindly to what I felt was a reasonable request\" (01:32:13). Sameer Kanal (District 2), questioning limits on councilor briefings tied to quorum rules, said, \"If any state legislators are listening to this, this is absurd\" (01:39:07).\n\nZimmerman moved to table the ordinance with no date. A drawn-out exchange followed over whether the motion was a \"table\" or a \"postpone indefinitely,\" which the clerk warned would kill the item; Zimmerman kept his original motion, saying it \"more reflects my intent\" (01:50:47). The committee laid the item on the table 3-2, with Novick and Angelita Morillo (District 3) voting no (01:51:24). Loretta Smith (District 1) had said she was prepared to support the ordinance but that lawful owners \"must receive clear notice\" of the change (01:29:07).\n\nA report requested by Smith's February resolution laid out what growing the Portland Police Bureau would cost. Performance analyst Nick McDonald said a mid-range 10-year model adds about $700,000 the first year, rising to roughly $38 million a year above current levels by 2036, net of overtime savings, plus about $340 million in capital costs for buildings and vehicle storage (00:14:39). He said overtime could be cut by two-thirds by 2036, saving about $13 million a year (00:12:07). Smith stressed the report \"is not a final staffing plan\" but a framework, and welcomed a projected 207% increase in community policing activity (00:26:20).\n\nMorillo said a public records request had surfaced \"12 pages of feedback from PPB\" she believed was missing from the report, and questioned a proposed fourth precinct the bureau itself had said it was unfamiliar with the research behind (00:26:54). She pressed on why response times rose while call volume fell, and noted the report's finding that about 14,000 welfare-check calls could shift to Portland Street Response over four to five years (00:32:30). Deputy Chief Brian Hughes said the bureau is \"a very lean organization\" and that reducing response times means \"the honest discussion about growing this police department\" (00:20:04).\n\nAaron Schmautz, president of the Portland Police Association, told the committee the bureau \"does not have an overtime budget\" and that officers in training status rose from about 9 in 2019 to above 100 today, with roughly 200 fewer officers than 20 years ago (00:23:02). Zimmerman asked for a \"readiness\" designator so trainees are not counted as available patrol. Kanal said he is \"categorically opposed to hiring freezes in public safety\" and blamed prior leadership for delaying Portland Street Response (00:57:20). Novick pressed staff to reconcile the report's statement of \"fewer available patrol officers\" with McDonald's testimony that patrol staffing held near 332. The report was placed on file.\n\nZimmerman presented an ordinance to raise minimum park exclusions to 90 days for elevated violations and for drug and weapons offenses, escalate repeat offenses to a 180-day zone exclusion on a second violation and a 365-day citywide exclusion on a third, remove the automatic stay of an exclusion when it is appealed, extend exclusions to adjacent sidewalks and right-of-way, and require officers to document why they decline to issue an exclusion (02:07:50). He said it makes no new conduct illegal, cited 16 exclusions last year across a list of parks — four in the elevated category — out of 257 citywide, and offered to drop the sidewalk provision: \"If that's not going to work, I think we pull it.\"\n\nSmith said \"communities of color will be targeted\" for longer bans and \"I won't be supporting this\" (02:21:36). Ryan Swift-Major, business manager of Laborers Local 483, testified that the plan ignores community centers, where staff have no recourse against someone carrying a machete except calling rangers, and that \"park rangers weren't reached out to\" (02:31:52). Zimmerman disputed that — \"All of those were in the room\" — and called reaching past management to frontline staff \"a strange standard.\" Vicente Harrison, Health Safety Emergency Manager for Portland Parks and Recreation, said the bureau has 29 permanent rangers plus 11 seasonal for about 144 developed parks and 12 community centers, meaning six to eight rangers cover the city at any time (02:41:28). A police captain called the documentation requirement a possible \"unfunded mandate\" and burden on response times (02:57:22). The item was continued for further vetting.\n\nThe firearms ordinance sits tabled and can return only by a later motion from the chair or a committee member; the amendment directs the City Administrator to draft administrative rules on covered buildings and enforcement. The parks ordinance was continued, with Zimmerman open to pulling the sidewalk provision and reworking the documentation rule, and Morillo requesting data on exclusions issued, appealed and reversed plus a frontline-staff briefing. Novick said the committee will take up police response times again, with the bureau to return with data on call-length drivers and trainee readiness.", "summaryLede": "The Community and Public Safety Committee laid a firearms ordinance on the table 3-2 after passing an amendment to it 5-0, deferring a proposal to strip the concealed-handgun defense for guns carried into three downtown city buildings.", "sections": [ { "title": "Minutes approval", "startTime": "00:06:03.528", "endTime": "00:08:43.639", "items": [ { "title": "July 7, 2026 - August 4, 2026, Meeting Minutes", "startTime": "00:06:03.528", "endTime": "00:08:43.639", "agendaItemNumber": 1 } ] }, { "title": "Regular agenda", "startTime": "00:08:43.639", "endTime": "03:02:59.719", "items": [ { "title": "Portland Police expansion cost report (Presentation)", "startTime": "00:08:43.639", "endTime": "01:11:59.113", "agendaItemNumber": 2 }, { "title": "Amend Code related to prohibitions on possession of firearms within certain City buildings to disallow affirmative defense for persons with concealed handgun licenses (amend Code Sections 3.18.020, 14A.60.010 and 20.12.050)", "startTime": "01:11:59.113", "endTime": "02:07:22.967", "agendaItemNumber": 3 }, { "title": "Amend Prohibited Conduct Code to update ejections and exclusions for drug possession, weapon possession, and abuse in parks (amend Code Chapter 20.12)", "startTime": "02:07:22.967", "endTime": "03:02:59.719", "agendaItemNumber": 4 } ] } ], "cues": [ { "id": "cue-1", "start": 363.528, "end": 363.978, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-2", "start": 364.235, "end": 367.43, "text": "I call this meeting of the Community and Public Safety Committee to order.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-3", "start": 368.57, "end": 374.11, "text": "It is Tuesday, um, uh, September 15th, 9:30 AM.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-4", "start": 374.206, "end": 375.442, "text": "Could the clerk please call the roll?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-5", "start": 376.615, "end": 377.064, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-6", "start": 377.273, "end": 377.722, "text": "Morillo.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-7", "start": 379.647, "end": 379.921, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-8", "start": 382.224, "end": 382.353, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-9", "start": 382.965, "end": 383.771, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-10", "start": 384.174, "end": 384.512, "text": "Novick.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-11", "start": 384.737, "end": 384.85, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-12", "start": 386.171, "end": 388.105, "text": "Uh, could we hear the statement of conduct?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-13", "start": 390.69, "end": 392.693, "text": "Welcome to the meeting of the Community and Public Safety Committee.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-14", "start": 392.741, "end": 404.305, "text": "To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance to the committee agenda at www.portland.gov/council/agenda/community-and-public-safety-committee or by calling 311.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-15", "start": 404.66, "end": 407.03, "text": "Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-16", "start": 407.24, "end": 409.88, "text": "Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-17", "start": 409.88, "end": 412.87, "text": "In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-18", "start": 413.1, "end": 418.23, "text": "If public testimony will be taken on an item, individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the Chair states otherwise.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-19", "start": 418.34, "end": 420.33, "text": "Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-20", "start": 420.68, "end": 421.76, "text": "The Chair preserves order.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-21", "start": 421.76, "end": 427.7, "text": "Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-22", "start": 427.7, "end": 429.72, "text": "If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-23", "start": 429.72, "end": 432.4, "text": "Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-24", "start": 432.4, "end": 434.66, "text": "Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-25", "start": 434.66, "end": 438.082, "text": "Additionally, the committee may take short recess and reconvene virtually.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-26", "start": 438.435, "end": 440.343, "text": "Your testimony should address the matter being considered.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-27", "start": 440.423, "end": 442.17, "text": "When testifying, state your name for the record.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-28", "start": 442.218, "end": 444.703, "text": "If you're a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-29", "start": 444.991, "end": 447.508, "text": "Virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-30", "start": 447.636, "end": 447.973, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-31", "start": 449.4, "end": 449.897, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-32", "start": 450.217, "end": 452.493, "text": "We have 3 items on our agenda today.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-33", "start": 452.702, "end": 462.929, "text": "First, there's a report back on a resolution Councilor Smith sponsored earlier this year to study police officer recruitment goals and the cost of achieving and sustaining increased staffing levels.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-34", "start": 463.025, "end": 466.087, "text": "My apologies to Councilor Smith for taking so long to get this on the agenda.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-35", "start": 466.472, "end": 480.757, "text": "Between the budget, other legislation, and staff events, second is continued discussion of the Protecting Portland Buildings Ordinance that would prohibit the carrying of firearms into certain city buildings by persons who have concealed weapons permits.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-36", "start": 481.566, "end": 484.524, "text": "The sponsor has an amendment I'll be motioning as a courtesy.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-37", "start": 484.944, "end": 486.949, "text": "We'll have the city administrator here to share his perspective.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-38", "start": 488.08, "end": 495.686, "text": "Third, we have a new ordinance from Councilor Zimmerman to amend the Conduct Code for Portland Parks with updates to ejection and exclusion criteria.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-39", "start": 497.89, "end": 508.401, "text": "But our first order of business is the approval of the Community and Public Safety Committee meeting minutes from July 7th, 2026 through August 4th, 2026.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-40", "start": 508.546, "end": 511.538, "text": "Are there any objections to approval of the minutes?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-41", "start": 512.266, "end": 516.313, "text": "All right, by unanimous consent, the minutes are approved.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-42", "start": 517.192, "end": 517.941, "text": "I could—.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-43", "start": 520.31, "end": 522.168, "text": "Um, the clerk, read the, the second item.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-44", "start": 523.639, "end": 531.116, "text": "Item number 2, document number 2026-314, Portland Police Expansion Cost Report.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-45", "start": 533.14, "end": 533.819, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-46", "start": 533.964, "end": 538.671, "text": "Um, we have a somewhat lengthy presentation today, but I think that the, um, content warrants it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-47", "start": 538.898, "end": 541.405, "text": "We're on for 30 minutes, but if you can get through before then, that would be great.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-48", "start": 541.892, "end": 542.605, "text": "So take it away.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-49", "start": 542.735, "end": 545.475, "text": "Good morning, my name is Nick McDonald.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-50", "start": 545.524, "end": 547.826, "text": "I'm a performance analyst with the Public Safety Service Area.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-51", "start": 551.698, "end": 552.07, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-52", "start": 552.345, "end": 554.028, "text": "Brian Hughes, Deputy Chief, Portland Police Bureau.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-53", "start": 554.869, "end": 564.686, "text": "So I'm going to present on the report presented to council pursuant to Resolution 42 directing the DCA to prepare a report on expanding— the cost of expanding the police bureau.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-54", "start": 567.375, "end": 568.483, "text": "Just some background.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-55", "start": 568.597, "end": 570.975, "text": "This kind of issue has been looked at in the past.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-56", "start": 571.187, "end": 573.777, "text": "In 2015, there was a staffing study.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-57", "start": 574.469, "end": 574.678, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-58", "start": 574.774, "end": 581.823, "text": "Which looked at increasing staff from 924 in 2015 to 951.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-59", "start": 582.821, "end": 591.322, "text": "In 2020, there was an updated study that looked just at patrol officers, recommending increasing patrol officers to 399.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-60", "start": 591.516, "end": 594.205, "text": "But those recommendations were never fully implemented at the time.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-61", "start": 598.464, "end": 600.823, "text": "So we took a workload analysis framework.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-62", "start": 600.904, "end": 614.044, "text": "We looked at what work the police bureau is expected to do, how much time it takes, and the level of performance that the We looked at 3 primary scenarios.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-63", "start": 615.102, "end": 624.143, "text": "One of them, the lowest here, took the period around 2020 as our kind of scenario for most challenging recruitment and retention.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-64", "start": 625.137, "end": 632.719, "text": "The high scenario there looked at a scenario where we have a dramatically improved recruiting and retention situation.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-65", "start": 633.218, "end": 642.989, "text": "And the medium scenario there, we think, is a plausible increase on a glide path that reflects our best recruiting performance over the last few years sustained over a decade.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-66", "start": 647.52, "end": 654.042, "text": "So the model here of that middle scenario charts out what that would look like over about 10 years.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-67", "start": 654.316, "end": 658.834, "text": "We see a gradual increase in the number of available non-trainee officers.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-68", "start": 659.578, "end": 661.012, "text": "A full trainee docket.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-69", "start": 661.527, "end": 667.262, "text": "And by about 2030, we eliminate our vacant positions and would need reauthorization for increased.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-70", "start": 667.81, "end": 675.112, "text": "And by June 36th, we reach the full level of our model.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-71", "start": 678.76, "end": 688.314, "text": "So one of the main assumptions here is that a decent proportion of these officers would be assigned to patrol with the goal of reducing response times for priority service.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-72", "start": 688.429, "end": 702.031, "text": "You can see over the past few years, we've had a decline in both the number of dispatched calls for service and an increase in the response times for all categories of call.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-73", "start": 703.76, "end": 710.689, "text": "The patrol staffing level over the past 10 years has been pretty stable at about 330 officers.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-74", "start": 711.2, "end": 715.033, "text": "The decline in officers has not really affected patrol staffing levels.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-75", "start": 715.083, "end": 723.866, "text": "It's been one way that that's been dealt with is an increased reliance on overtime.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-76", "start": 725.316, "end": 732.936, "text": "One of our assumptions in this model is that a decent chunk of new hires would be assigned to reduce overtime.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-77", "start": 734.232, "end": 742.162, "text": "We think that by 2036, we could reduce overtime by approximately 2/3, saving about $13 million a year.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-78", "start": 742.21, "end": 742.355, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-79", "start": 742.768, "end": 745.811, "text": "By reducing personnel backfill overtime and planned mission overtime.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-80", "start": 746.31, "end": 752.388, "text": "There would be about a third of the overtime that would not be able to be removed, which would be emergency situations, warrant service, those kinds of things.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-81", "start": 755.966, "end": 763.133, "text": "The Chief's Office put together a staff— a sample staffing plan of how we would use this number of officers.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-82", "start": 764.15, "end": 765.414, "text": "I'm not going to go through this in detail.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-83", "start": 765.479, "end": 766.484, "text": "It's in the report.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-84", "start": 766.533, "end": 770.148, "text": "But you can see a large chunk of this goes into patrol operations.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-85", "start": 771.549, "end": 778.131, "text": "We envisage a new precinct, but an increase across the board in most areas as well.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-86", "start": 783.51, "end": 787.466, "text": "So when we're looking at the assumptions, all of these numbers are in non-inflation-adjusted dollars.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-87", "start": 788.047, "end": 791.115, "text": "They use the average current compensation rates for each job classification.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-88", "start": 791.597, "end": 794.184, "text": "They don't include expected increases for future years.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-89", "start": 796.071, "end": 798.658, "text": "The model includes total taxpayer burden.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-90", "start": 799.695, "end": 802.639, "text": "Both the general fund and the FPDNR levy.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-91", "start": 803.153, "end": 808.333, "text": "Although those aren't city expenses, they are expenses to the taxpayer that are incurred because of city policy.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-92", "start": 808.381, "end": 809.562, "text": "So we did include them in the model.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-93", "start": 811.617, "end": 818.254, "text": "It includes core costs of salary and benefit staff and immediate costs like training.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-94", "start": 818.675, "end": 827.489, "text": "It does not include capital facilities, non-sworn support staff, recruitment spending, or equipment and vehicle procurement beyond initial officer outfitting.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-95", "start": 828.786, "end": 838.979, "text": "We think the recruitment and retention would cost approximately $3.5 million a year in training and onboarding costs in addition to other costs.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-96", "start": 842.08, "end": 852.543, "text": "So you can see in the first year here, we add about $700,000 in costs, and that increases to a total of about $38 million above current levels by 2036.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-97", "start": 853.53, "end": 860.185, "text": "This is net of overtime savings, but not including the items that we didn't include.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-98", "start": 863.07, "end": 877.285, "text": "In addition to these items, we think there's about $338 million in capital costs associated with new buildings and vehicle storage and, you know, places to put hundreds more offices.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-99", "start": 879.979, "end": 901.304, "text": "So in summary, this is what we estimate the costs to be, about $700,000 in the first year, going up to about $38 million annually by 10 years, factoring in about $340 million in capital costs over that period, plus the various other costs like vehicles that would be associated.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-100", "start": 901.885, "end": 902.839, "text": "Thank you for your patience.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-101", "start": 902.919, "end": 907.91, "text": "I understand there's a lot of dense information there, but I I'd like to pass it over to any questions you might have.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-102", "start": 915.549, "end": 926.036, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank the Public Safety Service Area and the, um, Portland Public, uh, the Portland Police Bureau for completing the report.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-103", "start": 926.666, "end": 928.249, "text": "Uh, is Aaron Smouts here?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-104", "start": 929.49, "end": 938.347, "text": "Could you come up to the, to the table, please.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-105", "start": 939.899, "end": 966.025, "text": "In, in February, I introduced a resolution, uh, that would require Deputy City Administrator for, uh, Public Safety to provide a report on police officer recruitment goals and costs because council was being asked to make major decisions about police staffing without a complete picture of what would actually take— it would take to recruit, train, deploy, and sustain additional officers.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-106", "start": 967.164, "end": 991.597, "text": "Council adopted that resolution and directed the Deputy City Administrator for Public Safety to answer several fundamental questions: what the level and the organization structure of staffing would look like and support the public safety outcomes Portland expects, how long would it realistically take to recruit, hire, train, and deploy additional officers?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-107", "start": 992.672, "end": 997.885, "text": "What would that growth cost, not only at the point of hiring but over the long term?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-108", "start": 998.431, "end": 1007.43, "text": "And what additional investments would be required in training, supervision, vehicles, equipment, facilities, uh, civilian staff, and professional development?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-109", "start": 1008.456, "end": 1016.432, "text": "And lastly, and how should Portland plan for these costs as our city and its public safety needs evolve over the next decade.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-110", "start": 1017.075, "end": 1023.529, "text": "So today's present— presentation is the result of that direction that was given in February.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-111", "start": 1024.187, "end": 1030.995, "text": "I appreciate staff providing council with a more, uh, transparent and fact-based foundation for this conversation.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-112", "start": 1031.669, "end": 1039.027, "text": "I want to emphasize that this report is not a final staffing plan, is it, um, Deputy, uh, Chief Hughes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-113", "start": 1039.85, "end": 1043.675, "text": "And, and it does not recommend one specific number of officers.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-114", "start": 1043.804, "end": 1057.766, "text": "It gives council a framework for which to decide what services and outcomes we expect from PPB, um, and what staffing time, infrastructure, and funding will be required to deliver all these different, uh, subsets.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-115", "start": 1058.346, "end": 1075.531, "text": "So for me, um, since this is not a, a specific staffing plan, uh, Deputy Chief what additional analysis and community engagement are needed to turn it into an actionable workload-based staffing plan?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-116", "start": 1077.52, "end": 1079.914, "text": "Thank you for the question, Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-117", "start": 1079.963, "end": 1082.083, "text": "Brian Hughes, Deputy Chief, Portland Police Bureau.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-118", "start": 1082.131, "end": 1083.539, "text": "I think you're spot on there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-119", "start": 1083.604, "end": 1103.875, "text": "I think it would involve more public comment and input to help us to be more informed about exactly what the public wants to see with regards to right now we're under-resourced and not able to properly handle property crimes in an appropriate way, and that might be something that Portlanders are interested in.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-120", "start": 1104.244, "end": 1114.732, "text": "So this, uh, the allocations that you saw earlier in the slides were, uh, you know, what we would like to see and based on feedback that we're hearing from public.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-121", "start": 1114.813, "end": 1122.719, "text": "But I think if, you know, we were to go forward and actually have an honest conversation about properly resourcing this police department, I think we would have a different conversation.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-122", "start": 1123.295, "end": 1126.7, "text": "Then we would have those kinds of conversations to help direct that work.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-123", "start": 1127.894, "end": 1128.217, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-124", "start": 1128.297, "end": 1129.443, "text": "I like that answer.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-125", "start": 1129.653, "end": 1136.228, "text": "And because we have to center what we do around what our community would like.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-126", "start": 1136.357, "end": 1144.992, "text": "And so having that kind of direction going forward, I think it's important and it's critical.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-127", "start": 1145.412, "end": 1162.875, "text": "And we would be intentional on making sure that we bring the public into a system that sometimes to them feels not as transparent as we should be, but centering all of our decisions around what, what the public says, I think it's very helpful.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-128", "start": 1165.581, "end": 1188.488, "text": "In terms of PPB to establish specific staffing requirements tied to the 7-minute high-priority response time goal, I know we've gotten a lot of pushback, and we've gotten a lot of criticism about how quickly we respond.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-129", "start": 1189.58, "end": 1200.629, "text": "If we could wave our magic wand today without any additional resources, are there ways that we can increase response time?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-130", "start": 1204.489, "end": 1217.128, "text": "I think we're at a point now where we're at a bare-bones organization and have trimmed a lot of the fat, especially in this year of budget cuts, to— we do the best we can and deploy the resources we have the best we can.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-131", "start": 1217.339, "end": 1229.469, "text": "So right now I say we're a very lean organization, and when we start talking about making a serious impact on response times, then we start having to have the honest discussion about growing this police department.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-132", "start": 1229.912, "end": 1240.037, "text": "So one of the things that I noted from the report that was the presentation that we just were given, it said that patrol officers didn't go down.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-133", "start": 1240.086, "end": 1242.364, "text": "It was at 332, if I'm not mistaken.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-134", "start": 1243.07, "end": 1243.471, "text": "That's correct.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-135", "start": 1244.049, "end": 1257.239, "text": "So if we have maintained 332 patrol, it seems to me that we should be able to respond quicker and that the majority of the decrease were in-office.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-136", "start": 1258.313, "end": 1263.892, "text": "Well, I'll defer to DC Hughes on this, but one thing that has changed is the nature of the calls.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-137", "start": 1264.004, "end": 1265.03, "text": "They are taking longer.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-138", "start": 1265.591, "end": 1272.612, "text": "We've also had policy changes like welfare hours that takes about 10% of patrol officers' time, and there are, there are various factors which have contributed to that.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-139", "start": 1272.821, "end": 1277.598, "text": "Okay, so what you're suggesting is that we still need additional patrol officers?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-140", "start": 1278.415, "end": 1289.107, "text": "Well, so the, the, the equation for patrol is you have the number of calls, the length of time a call takes, and the number of officers available to deal with them, and, you know, the time that they're spending.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-141", "start": 1289.268, "end": 1290.823, "text": "And you have to balance those 3 factors.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-142", "start": 1290.935, "end": 1302.573, "text": "You either drive down the number of calls by diverting them somewhere else or choosing not to respond to them at all, or you increase the number of officer time being spent on response, or you somehow manage to decrease the time it takes to respond to a call.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-143", "start": 1302.781, "end": 1306.26, "text": "But those are the 3 kind of primary elements that affect it.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-144", "start": 1306.885, "end": 1307.654, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-145", "start": 1308.007, "end": 1311.021, "text": "And my last question, Aaron, could you introduce yourself, please?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-146", "start": 1311.357, "end": 1311.517, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-147", "start": 1311.614, "end": 1313.345, "text": "Aaron Schmaltz, president of Portland Police Association.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-148", "start": 1314.323, "end": 1319.597, "text": "You came and gave a brief presentation at my Coffee with a Cop in community.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-149", "start": 1320.254, "end": 1328.249, "text": "There were a couple of things that you wanted to point out about the report that was critical, that you thought that the people needed to know about?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-150", "start": 1328.457, "end": 1338.445, "text": "And as Deputy Chief noted, that any further expansion of this report should also include the community and what they want.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-151", "start": 1339.119, "end": 1342.973, "text": "What were those items that you talked about that you thought were critical?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-152", "start": 1343.807, "end": 1344.723, "text": "I talked a lot at that meeting.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-153", "start": 1344.98, "end": 1353.24, "text": "You know, I think overall, historically, the police bureau has been structured improperly.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-154", "start": 1353.919, "end": 1362.937, "text": "The way that you look at our funding mechanism, I know there's a lot of conversation around our staffing and how people are hired and how we navigate, but the police bureau does not have an overtime budget.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-155", "start": 1362.985, "end": 1371.415, "text": "There was a budget note from 2020 that indicated that we needed to make sure that we were staffing properly and also ensuring that we had staffing trajectory.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-156", "start": 1372.559, "end": 1378.741, "text": "When you look at the police bureau, vacancy savings has been how we've paid for, uh, for overtime in the past.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-157", "start": 1378.949, "end": 1385.295, "text": "Um, and, um, but at the end of the day, you know, I look at, at the work we did, uh, with school police.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-158", "start": 1386.16, "end": 1390.438, "text": "Um, I ran that program before it was, uh, disbanded.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-159", "start": 1391.047, "end": 1399.363, "text": "Um, as the police bureau has lost staffing, we've never really done a true gap assessment of the work that is missing as a result of us just plugging holes.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-160", "start": 1399.86, "end": 1412.985, "text": "Um, when we took the school police out of, of the Portland public ecosystem, we actually did a gap assessment, and everyone was pretty surprised about the holes that police fill in the absence of other resources.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-161", "start": 1413.402, "end": 1424.909, "text": "But I can tell you that, for instance, when we would have like a football game, we worked directly with Office of Violence Prevention, with other partners, to create and manifest a good safety plan working together.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-162", "start": 1425.823, "end": 1433.371, "text": "And I would just argue that as we continue to build other systems in Portland, unless we build those systems and ensure that our systems are working together, Right.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-163", "start": 1433.613, "end": 1435.588, "text": "We might as well just throw the money in the trash.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-164", "start": 1435.717, "end": 1451.758, "text": "Because the bottom line is, is if we're not— you know, you create PSR, you create, uh, you know, increased OVP, all these things are good, um, but if they're not working directly with and training with law enforcement to ensure that we have agreed-upon outcomes, we're never going to see any actual benefit for that investment.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-165", "start": 1454.122, "end": 1463.47, "text": "Yes, and, and I said this is my last question, but I want to direct this to, um, CA Lee, who's our, uh, interim, um, Public Safety DCA.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-166", "start": 1464.194, "end": 1485.132, "text": "One of the things that I learned, and, you know, this is like on-the-job training, and it's a master course in how to understand what actually goes on, but I was surprised to learn that fire had an overtime budget that was put into the budget.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-167", "start": 1485.685, "end": 1491.609, "text": "And Will you, will you do the same for the police going forward?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-168", "start": 1491.754, "end": 1495.877, "text": "Is that on the table for discussion to have an overtime budget for police?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-169", "start": 1497.032, "end": 1503.689, "text": "I think it's something that we can have a conversation with, with the police as we look at developing the mayor's proposed budget.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-170", "start": 1504.171, "end": 1517.149, "text": "I think it's something truly tangible that we have to look at when we look at the limited resources that we have from a resource standpoint, human capital, from officers being out on the street and the demand for more officers.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-171", "start": 1517.486, "end": 1522.994, "text": "As it relates to the number of calls that we have coming in and their ability to respond to them in a timely fashion.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-172", "start": 1523.588, "end": 1529.352, "text": "I think it really comes down to as well the level of service that we're looking for out of our police department.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-173", "start": 1529.866, "end": 1542.679, "text": "If we're looking for certain response times to be certain things or we're looking for them to respond to certain type of calls, I think that's a conversation that we have to have as it relates to the resources that we have to be able to do that.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-174", "start": 1543.016, "end": 1545.391, "text": "Does overtime help in this conversation?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-175", "start": 1545.52, "end": 1545.584, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-176", "start": 1545.825, "end": 1547.975, "text": "Or do we need to add additional officers?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-177", "start": 1548.392, "end": 1552.115, "text": "I would just, you know, put this one little caveat out here as well too.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-178", "start": 1552.821, "end": 1568.676, "text": "We have to be cautious about the amount of overtime that we're asking officers to work because at that point in time, just like driving or anything else, once you work so many hours, your response time and your ability to respond to these things is reduced tremendously.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-179", "start": 1568.804, "end": 1579.611, "text": "So we wanna make sure that we're putting not only our officers but the public in the best safe, predictable predicament that we can put them in, considering the work that we're asking them to do.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-180", "start": 1580.142, "end": 1580.868, "text": "I agree.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-181", "start": 1580.965, "end": 1598.037, "text": "And I was pleasantly surprised that the report had that there was going to be a 2— if this was going to be implemented, that there was a 207% increase in community, you know, activity in community policing.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-182", "start": 1598.216, "end": 1601.366, "text": "And I was personally, just happy to see that.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-183", "start": 1602.01, "end": 1602.445, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-184", "start": 1605.086, "end": 1605.795, "text": "Councilor Murillo.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-185", "start": 1606.778, "end": 1612.297, "text": "And by the way, I think that I'm going to hope that we can hold ourselves to like 5 minutes apiece so that we have time for a second round.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-186", "start": 1614.4, "end": 1615.7, "text": "No, it's not going to be 5 minutes.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-187", "start": 1615.765, "end": 1616.627, "text": "I have a lot to say on this.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-188", "start": 1616.887, "end": 1621.114, "text": "And if we're going to set standards for people on the committee, it has to be universal.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-189", "start": 1622.922, "end": 1624.764, "text": "Thank you guys for coming today and for sharing this report.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-190", "start": 1625.727, "end": 1630.153, "text": "I do have some pretty big concerns about the process that went into creating this report.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-191", "start": 1631.115, "end": 1640.833, "text": "A community member sent my office the results of a public records request that included 12 pages of feedback from PPB to LEADS in the public safety service area.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-192", "start": 1641.442, "end": 1647.873, "text": "And my reading of the report compared to this feedback is that a lot of correcting information and feedback is missing in this report.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-193", "start": 1648.354, "end": 1669.892, "text": "And that includes definitions and the characterizations of the I was really struck by the fact that there is consideration for a new 4th precinct and that there was direct PBV feedback that they were unfamiliar with the research done to identify the 4th pre— 4-precinct model and are curious about what factors are included to inform the need for them.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-194", "start": 1669.973, "end": 1672.503, "text": "So I'm very curious about that assertion as well.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-195", "start": 1674.31, "end": 1698.452, "text": "So before I get into my questions, I just wanted to name some of that I was really struck by 3 things in the report that could be done to improve staffing and retention that don't include hiring new officers right away, and I want to talk about those a little bit because I feel like these are important areas to understand and work on before we launch into any kind of new hiring or staffing or investment plan.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-196", "start": 1699.432, "end": 1711.279, "text": "For the call response times, on page 16 of the report, it It says that the call response times have gone up at the same time that the number of calls, or low, medium, and high priority calls, have gone down.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-197", "start": 1712.098, "end": 1719.414, "text": "In fact, response times to high priority calls have gone up the most at the same time that they have seen the greatest decrease in call volume.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-198", "start": 1720.297, "end": 1727.453, "text": "The report states this information, which is, I think, good to acknowledge, but it doesn't really explain why this would be.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-199", "start": 1728.304, "end": 1732.459, "text": "And something other than workload seems to be impacting call response times.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-200", "start": 1733.389, "end": 1743.917, "text": "So before we suggest adding any new officers, we should understand what the driver is for this and how we might correct for it in order to inform us for an actual staffing position.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-201", "start": 1744.83, "end": 1755.261, "text": "Because I, you know, sitting in this committee, we keep hearing the calls are just taking longer, but I have no clarity on why the calls are suddenly taking longer, what those factors are.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-202", "start": 1755.31, "end": 1766.488, "text": "And I think that's really critical because maybe our officers are initiating calls that are unnecessary, maybe, uh, you know, there's a lot of different things, but I would like to know why so we can make that decision.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-203", "start": 1768.14, "end": 1776.722, "text": "The report also, um, so does the Bureau have a plan to explore what might be the root cause of some of these calls taking longer than they did before?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-204", "start": 1778.501, "end": 1802.731, "text": "Councilor, yes, we initiated that discussion with you all 2 weeks ago in this committee and are continuing the work to look at a better way of explaining that through the president of the— I'm sorry, the chair of the committee, and plan to come back at future meetings to discuss it more in depth, to have a more robust discussion on why the calls are taking longer.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-205", "start": 1803.036, "end": 1813.055, "text": "Certainly de-escalation is part of that, and time is part of that, giving people the ability to make better choices, use time as a tactic.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-206", "start": 1813.633, "end": 1816.987, "text": "De-escalation as a tactic, number of officers as a tactic.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-207", "start": 1817.083, "end": 1822.668, "text": "There was an incident just this week up at the library, I think it was on Sunday, where a person had what we believed to be a gun.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-208", "start": 1823.422, "end": 1830.162, "text": "Turned out it was a BB gun and was waving it around, uh, real populated area.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-209", "start": 1830.563, "end": 1837.255, "text": "If you've seen any of the social media posts on that, there's been several, but you see a good 7, 8, 9 police officers standing there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-210", "start": 1837.544, "end": 1838.587, "text": "Those are just the ones you see.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-211", "start": 1838.668, "end": 1844.785, "text": "There's other ones you can't see that are in the street to ensure somebody doesn't drive down or walk down into the middle of what we're trying to do there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-212", "start": 1845.973, "end": 1851.978, "text": "We were able to use time and get additional resources there, including— you may have seen the police shield.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-213", "start": 1852.075, "end": 1860.697, "text": "They're holding a big shield so they can safely go up and deal with this person, put them in handcuffs, and take the— what turned out to be a BB gun away from them.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-214", "start": 1861.291, "end": 1866.879, "text": "But that's like a very visual reminder this week of what, you know, that looks like in practice.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-215", "start": 1867.233, "end": 1872.66, "text": "And And, you know, a decade ago, I was asked the question here 2 weeks ago what that might have looked like.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-216", "start": 1872.92, "end": 1877.06, "text": "And I don't know that we would've spent that much time on a call like that.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-217", "start": 1877.06, "end": 1885.46, "text": "But, you know, through the settlement agreement and looking at how we operate as a police bureau, that's one of the changes we've made for the better that had a better outcome.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-218", "start": 1885.46, "end": 1890.21, "text": "So we'll come back at future CAPS presentations and dive into those a little bit more for you.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-219", "start": 1891.16, "end": 1891.44, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-220", "start": 1891.44, "end": 1892.14, "text": "I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-221", "start": 1892.14, "end": 1893.94, "text": "I think it'll be helpful for us to get more clarity.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-222", "start": 1894.02, "end": 1897.6, "text": "And we appreciate that if there are efforts in de-escalation, I think that's great.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-223", "start": 1899.816, "end": 1909.701, "text": "The report also notes a number of concrete examples about how police could further reduce their call and workload by shifting work to other agencies or from sworn to non-sworn staff.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-224", "start": 1910.284, "end": 1920.43, "text": "I thought that was pretty interesting, and I think that we should prioritize recalibrating workload before we work on staffing so that we are making a proposal from the right starting point.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-225", "start": 1922.091, "end": 1936.325, "text": "One example that stood out to me in the report was that in April 2026, the Call Allocation Working Group recommended that approximately 14,000 welfare check calls could shift from PPB to Portland Street Response.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-226", "start": 1936.854, "end": 1942.192, "text": "And the report also suggests that it would take 4 to 5 years to fully realize that shift in call load.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-227", "start": 1943.186, "end": 1949.807, "text": "Can you tell me why it would take that 4 to 5 years to shift that call load or how we can make this a priority?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-228", "start": 1950.384, "end": 1956.555, "text": "Yeah, in addition to the expansion plan that Portland Street Response currently has, that represents about a doubling of their capacity.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-229", "start": 1957.13, "end": 1957.48, "text": "What would it look like in practice if we were trying to speed up that process?", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-230", "start": 1957.48, "end": 1967.6, "text": "Well, I think we have a lot of work to do in terms of capacity, and there's just a training pipeline and an expansion tempo that, you know, that is the estimate from Portland Street Response of what that would take.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-231", "start": 1967.6, "end": 1975.99, "text": "I mean, there are— I guess there are ways to speed that up if we wanted to invest dramatically in it, but, you know, doubling the size of an agency is a painful process.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-232", "start": 1983.772, "end": 1986.067, "text": "I would defer to Portland Street Response on that question.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-233", "start": 1986.116, "end": 1987.943, "text": "That's just sort of more of an operational area for them.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-234", "start": 1988.978, "end": 1989.123, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-235", "start": 1991.71, "end": 1992.082, "text": "That's fine.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-236", "start": 1992.195, "end": 1994.084, "text": "We can ask that in the next meeting we cover this.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-237", "start": 1994.213, "end": 1996.65, "text": "But I think that that's interesting, right?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-238", "start": 1996.715, "end": 2010.108, "text": "Because if there are 14,000 welfare calls where we have calls all the time in the city of actual violent incidents that we need police to respond to, and they— I don't think you should be spending your time on welfare calls.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-239", "start": 2010.373, "end": 2017.077, "text": "That's things that other people are trained for, and police are some of our most expensive employees.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-240", "start": 2017.62, "end": 2028.821, "text": "So anytime that they're responding to something where it's not an immediate violent crime, we are spending the maximum amount of tax dollars and staff resources to respond to that type of call.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-241", "start": 2030.561, "end": 2041.87, "text": "On page 19 of the report, we also noted that officer-initiated calls have been in the 21 to 23% range Or about 42,000 to 46,000 calls.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-242", "start": 2043.25, "end": 2049.251, "text": "The report says that these are calls where officers are spending a greater percentage of patrol time on self-initiated activities.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-243", "start": 2049.99, "end": 2065.459, "text": "And then on page 21, the report says that there is not enough capacity to investigate child abuse cases, domestic violence, property crimes, elder fraud, or white-collar crime, and that before we consider staffing up investigations, we need to staff up patrol.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-244", "start": 2065.507, "end": 2065.619, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-245", "start": 2066.356, "end": 2074.725, "text": "Has the Bureau considered limiting officer-initiated calls in favor of improving call response times and investigation capacity needs?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-246", "start": 2076.072, "end": 2077.13, "text": "Thank you for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-247", "start": 2077.178, "end": 2078.076, "text": "You know, that's a balance.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-248", "start": 2078.541, "end": 2083.383, "text": "That's a balance that we constantly face with regards to the work that we do.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-249", "start": 2083.608, "end": 2094.478, "text": "A lot of the self-initiated work is traffic stops, and as I said 2 weeks ago, high crash corridor, trying to reduce fatal crashes is an aspect of that, but then our stolen vehicle missions.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-250", "start": 2094.672, "end": 2096.567, "text": "They just did their last one on Saturday night.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-251", "start": 2096.615, "end": 2097.289, "text": "I'm so proud of them.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-252", "start": 2097.385, "end": 2102.604, "text": "I listened for about 15 minutes while I was attending an immigrant refugee welcoming week event at ERCO.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-253", "start": 2103.102, "end": 2106.361, "text": "And in that 15 minutes, I think they recovered 3 or 4 stolen cars.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-254", "start": 2107.035, "end": 2115.224, "text": "And I'm thinking, okay, that's 3 or 4 cars that we're going to get back to somebody that's probably just trying to make a living in this city and needs their car to do that.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-255", "start": 2116.011, "end": 2123.429, "text": "So, I mean, that's a giant bucket of self-initiated activity work that that we intentionally do, and I'm supportive of it.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-256", "start": 2123.494, "end": 2125.645, "text": "We'll continue doing it, but it's a balance.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-257", "start": 2125.725, "end": 2126.014, "text": "You're right.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-258", "start": 2126.368, "end": 2129.643, "text": "And we have to balance, you know, the call load and response times.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-259", "start": 2130.382, "end": 2133.224, "text": "But when we look at the call response times, we also break that down as well.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-260", "start": 2133.433, "end": 2143.323, "text": "You know, we have, you know, a car gets broken into and how long we respond to that versus how long we respond to the weapons calls that we discussed 2 weeks ago.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-261", "start": 2143.95, "end": 2145.86, "text": "And, you know, we are thank you.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-262", "start": 2146.036, "end": 2151.309, "text": "We are placing a priority on responding to the immediate high priority 1 calls.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-263", "start": 2151.982, "end": 2173.938, "text": "Unfortunately, the way priority calls are banked right now, as your report suggested 2 weeks ago, that includes the top 3 priorities, which is not only somebody could be injured right now or is being injured right now or there's a weapon involved, somebody could be injured to the third one, which is a crime is occurring now, any crime is occurring now.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-264", "start": 2174.034, "end": 2175.973, "text": "So it's constant balance.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-265", "start": 2176.326, "end": 2176.55, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-266", "start": 2177.063, "end": 2182.962, "text": "And then, you know, you have those life safety priorities, and then you also have kind of what is a customer service priority.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-267", "start": 2183.074, "end": 2184.693, "text": "You know, what are the expectations of Portlanders?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-268", "start": 2184.757, "end": 2191.937, "text": "If somebody's car gets broken into, do I get a police response within an hour or, you know, 5 hours or 6 hours?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-269", "start": 2192.61, "end": 2200.849, "text": "I'd say on a day like Sunday when all the officers downtown are dealing with the person we believe to be armed, that's going to look quite a bit different.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-270", "start": 2201.522, "end": 2212.965, "text": "So I know that's a long-winded answer to your question, but— You know, self-initiated work is an important part of what we do to keep the city safe.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-271", "start": 2213.318, "end": 2213.88, "text": "So for clarity—.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-272", "start": 2213.88, "end": 2222.727, "text": "So, Councilor Morillo, I'm gonna have to ask to move on to Councilor Zimmerman, 'cause I think that we do wanna get this done by 10:30, and you've had 10 minutes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-273", "start": 2222.776, "end": 2225.345, "text": "That leaves about 8 minutes for each of the rest of us.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-274", "start": 2225.682, "end": 2226.517, "text": "So Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-275", "start": 2230.747, "end": 2253.234, "text": "Okay, um, I'm interested in— I don't know that I have the right language to describe the, the function that I'm talking about, but what number of trainee slots does the Bureau need every year above what we consider the full staffing model?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-276", "start": 2253.686, "end": 2256.318, "text": "And I, and I say that from right.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-277", "start": 2256.639, "end": 2258.39, "text": "You all know I've spent a long time in the Army.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-278", "start": 2259.209, "end": 2269.744, "text": "We have a pipeline of recruits that we know this many hundred thousand need to go to basic training every year to keep up with whatever the Army says is the minimum standard for the country.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-279", "start": 2270.531, "end": 2279.075, "text": "Fire is kind of similar in terms of getting toward where they can start overstaffing so that they always have somebody in the pipeline.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-280", "start": 2279.123, "end": 2282.367, "text": "So I'm trying to get a sense of what that looks like eventually.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-281", "start": 2282.738, "end": 2294.153, "text": "And that would— that is somewhat unrelated to are we an 850-officer town, a 1,000-officer town.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-282", "start": 2294.282, "end": 2307.267, "text": "It's what is the percentage to, or how much do you address it to, keeping that pipeline always ready and always coming out of training to replace the next retiree?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-283", "start": 2307.348, "end": 2308.961, "text": "I guess I'm trying to get a sense of sense of that?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-284", "start": 2309.474, "end": 2324.543, "text": "Because the way we, we do a lot is we— because we're in this situation of so many vacancies, I think it hasn't allowed me to understand just what is that, that churn number if we weren't in the vacancy moment.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-285", "start": 2324.88, "end": 2328.663, "text": "If we were at full staffing moment still, how many overages do we need to have to be in that?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-286", "start": 2328.776, "end": 2330.347, "text": "And I'm kind of curious about that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-287", "start": 2330.86, "end": 2332.367, "text": "Yeah, I don't have the answer to that question.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-288", "start": 2332.415, "end": 2333.745, "text": "That's a fascinating question though.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-289", "start": 2333.939, "end": 2337.088, "text": "To think, 'cause we're gonna be pushing that 877 number here.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-290", "start": 2337.96, "end": 2346.546, "text": "Chief Day's very focused on hiring and we'll, at the beginning of October here, bring in another double-digit class of hire.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-291", "start": 2347.177, "end": 2347.355, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-292", "start": 2347.404, "end": 2348.279, "text": "You know, new officers.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-293", "start": 2352.105, "end": 2359.964, "text": "The problem with the city in our police bureau and hiring and attrition and everything else is we've hired in waves, right?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-294", "start": 2360.125, "end": 2360.205, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-295", "start": 2361.295, "end": 2362.836, "text": "Which then hurts us 25 years later.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-296", "start": 2362.901, "end": 2364.442, "text": "Sure does, yeah, when they all retire.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-297", "start": 2365.084, "end": 2367.252, "text": "So hard to average that.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-298", "start": 2367.702, "end": 2371.619, "text": "I don't know that we're seeing as many kind of retirement waves coming.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-299", "start": 2372.294, "end": 2375.12, "text": "There are still the favorable pay periods for people to retire.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-300", "start": 2375.184, "end": 2377.689, "text": "And so we expect to lose a certain amount.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-301", "start": 2377.753, "end": 2383.79, "text": "So I can bring that back to the team and see, but it'll be interesting to see 'cause there's 2 buckets to what you just talked about.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-302", "start": 2383.838, "end": 2389.597, "text": "It's that attrition with people leaving the Bureau and then it's also the day-to-day, you know, you have officers in training.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-303", "start": 2389.869, "end": 2398.253, "text": "We'll send officers for, you know, I think right now it's 2 days in person and we'll need to be able to cover the street while they're in that training.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-304", "start": 2398.35, "end": 2401.219, "text": "And we either do it on overtime or we do it with additional staffing.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-305", "start": 2401.347, "end": 2403.832, "text": "So yeah, I can break those 2 out and get back to you.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-306", "start": 2404.217, "end": 2404.89, "text": "Can I comment?", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-307", "start": 2404.938, "end": 2406.029, "text": "I had a sense you wanted to weigh in.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-308", "start": 2406.125, "end": 2406.718, "text": "Yeah, please.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-309", "start": 2406.766, "end": 2407.551, "text": "I was leaning in, I think.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-310", "start": 2407.728, "end": 2408.016, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-311", "start": 2409.171, "end": 2415.17, "text": "You know, I mean, to Chief's point, you know, the history of staffing in the police bureau, we knew things were coming.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-312", "start": 2415.282, "end": 2418.829, "text": "There were a couple hiring freezes in around '14 and around '17.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-313", "start": 2418.893, "end": 2426.692, "text": "But also, you know, you look at where our staffing is now, if I'm correct, and if I'm wrong in the data, I'm sure one of you will point it out.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-314", "start": 2426.757, "end": 2432.662, "text": "But in 2019, we had about 9 people in the training status because we were pretty fully staffed.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-315", "start": 2433.24, "end": 2435.038, "text": "And that number's above 100 today.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-316", "start": 2435.198, "end": 2440.734, "text": "So that 330 number that we have available on patrol over a third of them actually aren't.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-317", "start": 2441.263, "end": 2442.931, "text": "And so that piece matters.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-318", "start": 2443.605, "end": 2451.754, "text": "We're also seeing that our agency in the center of our staffing has a gap as a result of a bunch of people leaving in 2020.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-319", "start": 2451.85, "end": 2455.908, "text": "And so I think it's pushing half of the police bureau has less than 5 years on.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-320", "start": 2456.421, "end": 2461.33, "text": "And so our training officers are very junior, which I think is a structural deficit.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-321", "start": 2462.517, "end": 2468.967, "text": "And I mean, it used to be a big deal to become a coach, and now we're just really kind of please everyone be a coach, 'cause you have, if you're gonna staff quickly.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-322", "start": 2469.979, "end": 2486.255, "text": "And lastly, comparing us to fire is just completely not possible because fire has like both local and national standards around, you know, we must have 171 butts in the seat at all time to ensure for a lot of different structural things that matter in fire safety.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-323", "start": 2487.009, "end": 2493.959, "text": "The police bureau has never, we have mandatory minimums, but we don't meet 'em and we don't have mandatory overtime, which I'll tell you right now, Yeah.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-324", "start": 2494.05, "end": 2499.74, "text": "To the city administrator's point, I don't want— like, people say all the time that I just want my members making a bunch of overtime.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-325", "start": 2500.06, "end": 2502.72, "text": "When I was new, there was no overtime.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-326", "start": 2502.72, "end": 2507.85, "text": "We would all be sitting waiting on the radio for someone to ask to get a couple hours because we weren't getting paid very much then either.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-327", "start": 2508.02, "end": 2514.67, "text": "But I would love to have a fully staffed agency where no one got any overtime and everyone just worked 40 hours because it's better for everyone.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-328", "start": 2515.2, "end": 2523.14, "text": "And so I think what the one thing the city has never done is set like a 10-year longitudinal plan of this is where we want to be year over year.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-329", "start": 2523.14, "end": 2523.36, "text": "This is where we want this to be 10 years from now.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-330", "start": 2523.342, "end": 2525.349, "text": "Is how we wanna partner with all of our different groups.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-331", "start": 2525.654, "end": 2531.081, "text": "This is what a fully funded, fully woven public safety model looks, not just for police, but for everyone.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-332", "start": 2531.595, "end": 2534.485, "text": "And we set those goals and we meet them and we don't change it.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-333", "start": 2534.582, "end": 2538.901, "text": "And it's hard because politics change, but policing isn't political.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-334", "start": 2538.997, "end": 2541.454, "text": "Policing as far as staffing shouldn't be political.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-335", "start": 2542.77, "end": 2546.592, "text": "I agree in that 10-year trajectory and I appreciate both these answers.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-336", "start": 2549.674, "end": 2556.512, "text": "I think that we are lacking a designator for our patrol officers, actually all officers.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-337", "start": 2556.576, "end": 2559.336, "text": "We're lacking a designator for their readiness level.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-338", "start": 2560.187, "end": 2563.606, "text": "And right, I'm putting my kind of Army hat on here 'cause that's the language I have.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-339", "start": 2563.718, "end": 2566.318, "text": "But readiness meaning they're ready for the mission.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-340", "start": 2567.073, "end": 2572.514, "text": "That doesn't mean trainee, that doesn't mean DPSS-T, that doesn't mean in, you know, a ride-along kind of thing.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-341", "start": 2572.706, "end": 2575.82, "text": "It means how many are out of training and ready to go.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-342", "start": 2575.916, "end": 2577.489, "text": "Otherwise, we call them trainees until—.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-343", "start": 2577.489, "end": 2577.569, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-344", "start": 2577.65, "end": 2577.746, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-345", "start": 2577.827, "end": 2583.398, "text": "And so I think that that would be a helpful designator in the way that data is presented.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-346", "start": 2583.543, "end": 2600.107, "text": "If in case we do have such a large number who are really not actually available for a patrol shift alone in the traditional sense, then I don't want them included in a staffing presentation without an asterisk, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-347", "start": 2600.156, "end": 2601.631, "text": "So that we can understand that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-348", "start": 2605.536, "end": 2613.711, "text": "I have mentioned in this committee before, and I do want to get to the place where every time the police bureau doesn't hit minimum staffing in one of our precincts, that it's a red star cluster up.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-349", "start": 2613.951, "end": 2625.508, "text": "And I think we need to start letting the, the public and the city administrator and the mayor and those— this council know how many days, how many shifts a year are going below minimum staffing, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-350", "start": 2625.572, "end": 2627.111, "text": "Other agencies can do that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-351", "start": 2627.175, "end": 2647.094, "text": "I think that we should incorporate that into our culture because I actually think I think that Portlanders have not been made as aware of how many times that they are going about their business and the city's police bureau is below minimum staffing while the city's fire bureau has a mandatory overtime so that they don't hit below minimum staffing.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-352", "start": 2647.142, "end": 2655.635, "text": "I just think that— because I don't disagree on— you heard me last time, I think, talk about this, and I'm not getting to a place where I want to have a bunch of folks on overtime.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-353", "start": 2655.924, "end": 2656.935, "text": "I actually disagree with you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-354", "start": 2657.192, "end": 2659.441, "text": "I agree with you, President Schmaltz.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-355", "start": 2659.505, "end": 2669.753, "text": "I think that overtime is the worst-case scenario, and getting to a place where you are ready with your 40 hours, you're awake and spry, okay.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-356", "start": 2670.605, "end": 2674.026, "text": "You get into 50, 60, 80 hours, and I think we're in dangerous territory.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-357", "start": 2674.62, "end": 2689.604, "text": "But I don't know that we are letting the public and the City Council know just how often that if we were a minimum staffing agency, We would have— we would have somebody more on overtime, or that we would— how far we are below.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-358", "start": 2690.535, "end": 2702.498, "text": "So I'm just thinking through some of those things, but I do think that getting a sense for, of the 300 and some odd patrol officers, how many are trainees, is a critical need to better understand our current pipeline.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-359", "start": 2702.706, "end": 2724.013, "text": "And in the 10-year trajectory and looking at trend models, having an understanding for what is the authorization above what is considered the full staffing model for the Portland Police Bureau in order to incorporate the trainee number each year and what that flow looks like, I think is how in the longer term we get ahead of this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-360", "start": 2725.231, "end": 2740.669, "text": "To the debate about size of the bureau and et cetera, like, I think I'm pretty clear in terms of where I think to go, but I don't think that this aspect of the conversation— Mr. Mayor, I think— I don't think this aspect of the conversation actually changes based on the size of the bureau because it's a modeling aspect.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-361", "start": 2740.718, "end": 2741.792, "text": "So I'd be looking for that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-362", "start": 2742.402, "end": 2744.76, "text": "And I appreciate Councilor Smith bringing this forward.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-363", "start": 2744.808, "end": 2746.397, "text": "I want to hear more of the conversation, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-364", "start": 2746.734, "end": 2746.974, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-365", "start": 2747.6, "end": 2748.177, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-366", "start": 2748.242, "end": 2748.771, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-367", "start": 2749.685, "end": 2751.258, "text": "Just a clarifying question, Chair.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-368", "start": 2752.044, "end": 2754.37, "text": "Is this the only time we're going to get a chance to talk about this?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-369", "start": 2754.434, "end": 2761.108, "text": "Because I think this is a higher priority than at least the second item on the agenda, and I'd be open to tabling that one or pushing it back a meeting.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-370", "start": 2762.176, "end": 2766.444, "text": "Well, the second item on the agenda has been before us numerous times.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-371", "start": 2766.492, "end": 2767.737, "text": "I want to make sure that we get through it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-372", "start": 2768.011, "end": 2779.644, "text": "This is not the only time we're going to be talking certainly about— I mean, I've already said I want to have another session on response times, and I'm going to indicate some of the things that I think that need to be addressed.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-373", "start": 2781.971, "end": 2787.067, "text": "But I really want to make sure that we get through the second item and the third item.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-374", "start": 2787.244, "end": 2787.583, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-375", "start": 2788.319, "end": 2794.675, "text": "Yeah, I guess I could maybe give it a little latitude and stretch us until 10:37, but I don't want to go beyond that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-376", "start": 2795.141, "end": 2805.734, "text": "Okay, I really want the fact that some of our questions are not going to get asked to not be taken as we agree with the things we didn't get to cover and just wanted to get that on the record first.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-377", "start": 2806.344, "end": 2808.093, "text": "I want to start— thanks everybody for being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-378", "start": 2808.141, "end": 2812.105, "text": "I want to start with commending Chief Day and the Personnel Division for the hiring that's been going on.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-379", "start": 2812.218, "end": 2813.309, "text": "And Chief Hughes, you mentioned that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-380", "start": 2813.78, "end": 2818.139, "text": "I've been supportive of filling vacancies, have been since started working at the city in 2021.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-381", "start": 2818.576, "end": 2821.055, "text": "I think we need to talk about what the target we're hiring to is.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-382", "start": 2821.169, "end": 2824.659, "text": "That's separate, as I think was noted, but we can talk about that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-383", "start": 2824.724, "end": 2846.11, "text": "I think one of the things that has been coming up as we look at these trainee counts is that many of the— much of the staffing time— sorry, the staffing numbers that we're seeing include people that absent any changes to hiring or the number of officers will be fully ready in the months ahead, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-384", "start": 2846.174, "end": 2847.732, "text": "There's a bunch of people in the pipeline right now.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-385", "start": 2848.406, "end": 2852.71, "text": "And so I think that's, that's something that we should take into account as we're looking at where we want to get to.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-386", "start": 2853.465, "end": 2866.344, "text": "I also think, just by way of framing, I remain categorically opposed to hiring freezes in public safety, and also that we've historically said that public safety just means police and fire, but also BOEC, Portland Street Response, the whole public safety system.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-387", "start": 2866.408, "end": 2871.274, "text": "And I was really concerned when last year the hiring freeze was partially applied to public safety.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-388", "start": 2872.012, "end": 2875.851, "text": "I also wanted to pick up Councilor Zimmerman's thread about overhiring for training.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-389", "start": 2876.686, "end": 2887.959, "text": "Maybe fire's not the best comparison, but BOEC also has a similar thing, and I know labor's more familiar with that, at least that one, because PPA also represents some of the employees at BOEC as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-390", "start": 2888.57, "end": 2892.279, "text": "With relation to minimums, I think that I agree that we should show when we make them or not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-391", "start": 2892.344, "end": 2898.433, "text": "I think the challenge that we have is we don't have A consensus view of what minimums are in terms of numbers.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-392", "start": 2898.789, "end": 2912.446, "text": "When I've dug into that deeply last time, or 2 times ago now, I was told that the primary, not only factor, was historic staffing patterns from a time with different crime patterns, different 911 call volumes, and a different first responder ecosystem that excludes PSR and more.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-393", "start": 2912.511, "end": 2913.681, "text": "So I'd like to figure that all out.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-394", "start": 2916.065, "end": 2919.591, "text": "On slide 6, Nikki said that the patrol staffing level has been pretty stable.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-395", "start": 2919.963, "end": 2923.716, "text": "The decline in officers has not affected— has not really affected patrol staffing levels.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-396", "start": 2923.764, "end": 2926.105, "text": "It's been taken from other areas of the Bureau.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-397", "start": 2926.492, "end": 2933.546, "text": "And then we've seen, as Councilor Murillo pointed out, calls going down, response times going up, in particular for high priority calls, and staffing remaining stable.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-398", "start": 2933.691, "end": 2936.319, "text": "I think we've talked about the complexity of calls.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-399", "start": 2936.368, "end": 2937.254, "text": "I think that's important.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-400", "start": 2937.319, "end": 2940.012, "text": "We've talked about welfare hours, which are just a good thing to do.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-401", "start": 2941.454, "end": 2944.332, "text": "I also want to talk about prioritization, relatively speaking.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-402", "start": 2945.901, "end": 2947.001, "text": "There's sort of two things.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-403", "start": 2947.421, "end": 2955.865, "text": "You know, I was actually standing across the street from the library Uh, situation on Sunday, um, for at least the, the later portion of that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-404", "start": 2955.961, "end": 2963.156, "text": "And so having the context— you don't always have the context of what initiated the call when you show up and the, the situation's already partially in resolution.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-405", "start": 2963.654, "end": 2969.822, "text": "Um, I can say that, that we do see a lot of officers there at the time, and then, um, when it's done, it's done.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-406", "start": 2969.934, "end": 2971.958, "text": "So I, I did want to just point that out.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-407", "start": 2972.006, "end": 2986.5, "text": "I'm not— I don't know that that necessarily advances any idea, but, um, just watching how that I do want to talk about prioritization though, because we saw last year that $800,000 was spent in a month on protest response at a single building.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-408", "start": 2986.77, "end": 2989.69, "text": "And we did change that over the course of last year.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-409", "start": 2989.69, "end": 2990.77, "text": "I want to point that out.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-410", "start": 2991.37, "end": 2994.78, "text": "On the whole, we do know that protesters were not protected there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-411", "start": 2995.13, "end": 3001.67, "text": "We know that transphobic protesters got a police escort at the sports bra last week.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-412", "start": 3001.67, "end": 3004.25, "text": "And I think that there's a, there's a having a consistent approach to how we respond to protests.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-413", "start": 3004.25, "end": 3011.015, "text": "Councilor Sameer Kanal, approach to that and understanding what police's role is going to be in that, and also the relative level of priority is something I'm very interested in.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-414", "start": 3011.48, "end": 3014.08, "text": "I also wanted to flag the self-initiated calls.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-415", "start": 3014.177, "end": 3017.338, "text": "I'm— there are 2 things in this conversation that have kind of baffled me.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-416", "start": 3017.948, "end": 3022.105, "text": "One is the idea that we're conflating self-initiated calls with missions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-417", "start": 3022.683, "end": 3025.828, "text": "I was really confused by that, so I want to dig in a little bit on that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-418", "start": 3026.23, "end": 3029.054, "text": "And the other was about the table of what would be added.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-419", "start": 3029.584, "end": 3033.833, "text": "Um, With relation to the— yeah, thank you, Bree.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-420", "start": 3034.57, "end": 3042.073, "text": "So with relation to the missions piece, reducing that is something that seems like it should be an important priority.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-421", "start": 3042.586, "end": 3045.519, "text": "And I keep hearing that increasing self-initiated calls is a priority.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-422", "start": 3045.968, "end": 3070.16, "text": "I'm baffled by the idea that a police officer seeing like a homeless person just existing and pulling over, which I've seen at the OnPoint on the south side of Lombard in Portsmouth several times, I perfectly get the example of missions and investigations and have constantly been bringing this up as something we should be increasing priority for.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-423", "start": 3070.16, "end": 3075.68, "text": "So I was very confused by that, and I just wanted to get that on the record.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-424", "start": 3076.58, "end": 3078.32, "text": "Chief, could you speak a little bit more to that?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-425", "start": 3078.32, "end": 3082.38, "text": "Because you mentioned a stolen vehicle situation, and I think that's important to bring up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-426", "start": 3082.38, "end": 3082.54, "text": "Yeah, so I think that's a great point.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-427", "start": 3082.913, "end": 3090.043, "text": "But I also know that a lot of the self-initiated calls we've been seeing, this is why I asked about priorities 2 weeks ago, priority levels have been not in that space.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-428", "start": 3090.139, "end": 3092.291, "text": "So can you give a little more on that?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-429", "start": 3092.532, "end": 3103.001, "text": "Yeah, so to bring it back to what you were just talking about, the OnPoint call that you've talked about a couple of times now, I'll bring it right back to what you said about the library call.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-430", "start": 3103.049, "end": 3104.125, "text": "You don't know how that call started.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-431", "start": 3105.137, "end": 3111.431, "text": "And if you just look at social media and see a bunch of cops pointing guns and long guns at a homeless person on their back, It doesn't look good.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-432", "start": 3112.378, "end": 3120.904, "text": "But when you understand the full context, as I presented to you today, then you understand about why they took the time they did and did everything they could.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-433", "start": 3121.033, "end": 3135.243, "text": "And for me as a police executive, seeing that and seeing all the people that were standing around, including you, potentially in the line of fire if that person was not well or high on drugs and mentally suffering, maybe suffering from mental illness, I don't know, and actually had a gun and decided to shoot.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-434", "start": 3135.323, "end": 3135.869, "text": "I think that's a good point.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-435", "start": 3136.463, "end": 3138.871, "text": "The, the level of problem that we would have had there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-436", "start": 3139.753, "end": 3142.016, "text": "You know, for me, you know, it's a resource issue.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-437", "start": 3142.626, "end": 3147.698, "text": "I'd rather have enough police officers there that can block every street off and get those people out of the danger, including you.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-438", "start": 3148.661, "end": 3153.653, "text": "So that's part of this, that we, you know, you have to understand the full picture of what's going on here.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-439", "start": 3153.797, "end": 3155.771, "text": "I don't know the nature of what was going on at On Point.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-440", "start": 3155.964, "end": 3158.965, "text": "I don't know how the police were called there or why they were called there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-441", "start": 3159.639, "end": 3163.443, "text": "Generally speaking, police officers, there's there's people that are drug affected.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-442", "start": 3163.491, "end": 3167.92, "text": "You can go within 10 blocks of this place and probably find 10 right now, people that are drug affected.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-443", "start": 3168.707, "end": 3171.948, "text": "And I don't have the police officers to go and interact with all of those people.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-444", "start": 3172.012, "end": 3178.432, "text": "And as Councilor Murillo says, maybe that's not the best response for a most expensive resource to be interacting with those people.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-445", "start": 3178.993, "end": 3188.253, "text": "Generally speaking, the welfare checks that my officers go on are more extreme cases, cases where somebody's passed out maybe halfway in the street and it presents a safety issue.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-446", "start": 3188.301, "end": 3188.429, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-447", "start": 3188.766, "end": 3192.247, "text": "Those are self— those would be self-initiated calls that would fall into that bucket.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-448", "start": 3193.45, "end": 3208.848, "text": "As far as self-initiated activity, as officers have time between calls for service, and I don't know how many calls they're holding right now, I could look, I'm sure there's probably double digits, they try their best to make a difference and impact what's going on in this city.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-449", "start": 3209.297, "end": 3213.243, "text": "And they do it through traffic stops and engaging with people, checking if people have warrants.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-450", "start": 3214.045, "end": 3216.371, "text": "If they see somebody dealing drugs, they'll go and interact with them.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-451", "start": 3216.837, "end": 3220.835, "text": "And a lot of this is community-driven, to Loretta Smith's point, or Councilor Smith's point, apologies.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-452", "start": 3221.332, "end": 3233.824, "text": "When you're at your Coffee with a Cop and you're hearing from the public about all these problems that are going on, including the bottle drop at 122nd and Gleason, we have officers that are working on data-driven approaches right now to go out there and fix that.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-453", "start": 3234.498, "end": 3236.441, "text": "And they do it through self-initiated activity.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-454", "start": 3236.602, "end": 3245.827, "text": "Every single time they interact with somebody and go out with somebody, my data people are constantly on them to create calls and ensure that we can track that and be data-informed about what we do.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-455", "start": 3246.564, "end": 3249.401, "text": "So all of that generates self-initiated activity.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-456", "start": 3249.673, "end": 3260.281, "text": "And so for me, it's a balance, right, between ensuring that our most high-priority calls for service, the threats to our citizens and our public, are taken seriously and we respond to those in a timely fashion.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-457", "start": 3260.97, "end": 3264.095, "text": "So does that answer some of your questions?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-458", "start": 3264.4, "end": 3272.068, "text": "Yeah, I do have a little bit more on the on-point because I did see the beginning of one of those Uh, situations, but I, I think it— that might be better, uh, offline.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-459", "start": 3272.133, "end": 3273.183, "text": "But I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-460", "start": 3273.489, "end": 3283.271, "text": "Um, I think the, the situation— we, we could go down, uh, a lot of different, um, pathways with this, and I think it's really important to do.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-461", "start": 3283.416, "end": 3285.95, "text": "I, I want to talk about the two— I have two questions I want to get to.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-462", "start": 3286.401, "end": 3288.207, "text": "One is about the workload analysis framework.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-463", "start": 3288.288, "end": 3291.736, "text": "So I really appreciate that, and I'm glad that that happened.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-464", "start": 3292.784, "end": 3310.797, "text": "Is there a plan to update the police staffing numbers page on the police website to mirror a workload analysis framework, because it still has the already debunked officers per 1,000 capita thing on there as the primary metric of comparison at the bottom of that page.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-465", "start": 3311.454, "end": 3315.574, "text": "And so is this— does this show a shift in PPB's thinking?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-466", "start": 3315.622, "end": 3319.485, "text": "If so, I would be very happy to shout the praise from the rooftops on that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-467", "start": 3320.11, "end": 3322.082, "text": "I'd have to get back with the team and find out, Councilor.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-468", "start": 3322.13, "end": 3322.947, "text": "I don't have an answer for you there.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-469", "start": 3323.317, "end": 3326.982, "text": "Okay, I would— yeah, well, then I will just take the opportunity to advocate there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-470", "start": 3327.288, "end": 3327.593, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-471", "start": 3327.738, "end": 3337.847, "text": "Um, the, the, the thing that relates to that, um, is— well, actually, let me follow up on a different thread.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-472", "start": 3338.8, "end": 3342.655, "text": "Self-initiated calls report puts it under patrol time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-473", "start": 3343.33, "end": 3348.519, "text": "In the response you gave to Councilor Murillo, it sounded like you were saying it more closely relates to investigative time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-474", "start": 3349.76, "end": 3356.412, "text": "Can you, can you kind of give us a little bit more on what category that fits into in your mind?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-475", "start": 3356.926, "end": 3363.193, "text": "I mean, it's usually done by patrol officers, but as we know, patrol officers are often doing investigative tasks or pre-investigative tasks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-476", "start": 3363.996, "end": 3371.403, "text": "Yeah, the bulk of it is in the patrol world, and but, you know, investigative is— that's a, a huge bucket.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-477", "start": 3371.548, "end": 3379.537, "text": "If they, like I talked about 2 weeks ago, if somebody breaks into a car and they miraculously have some time to follow up on that call, which I can't see how they would.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-478", "start": 3380.033, "end": 3388.43, "text": "But if they did and were to go out and follow up, investigate, maybe get video from a Plaid Pantry if their credit card was used, that would be an investigative type thing.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-479", "start": 3388.943, "end": 3393.51, "text": "I think the bulk of the self-initiated activity that you're going to see are subject stops and traffic stops.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-480", "start": 3394.071, "end": 3395.834, "text": "So in the patrol world.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-481", "start": 3397.099, "end": 3397.308, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-482", "start": 3397.756, "end": 3401.025, "text": "I see Councilor Novick's putting it up, so I'll make my question into a comment.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-483", "start": 3401.523, "end": 3401.715, "text": "I did.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-484", "start": 3401.86, "end": 3422.591, "text": "This is less about anybody up here, but because it affects the ecosystem and the response that you gave, Nick, to Councilor Morillo's question about PSR and the speed of it, I want to just note for the record that the reason why it's so hard to expand it has been intentional delay and frankly sabotage of that program by the people on this side over the last few years that predate us.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-485", "start": 3423.265, "end": 3426.282, "text": "PSR, it predates Seattle's program.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-486", "start": 3426.699, "end": 3428.865, "text": "We're still in an extended pilot that's not 24/7.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-487", "start": 3429.588, "end": 3431.691, "text": "And Seattle's now a full department.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-488", "start": 3432.093, "end": 3439.96, "text": "And so I'm glad that we have a permanent hired program manager there, but it's still under a structure that isn't necessarily the best for it as a division, not its own bureau.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-489", "start": 3440.362, "end": 3446.158, "text": "And so in terms of raising that expansion tempo, it is leadership that is not anybody on that side.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-490", "start": 3446.206, "end": 3457.157, "text": "And I don't want to imply that it is, but that's a part of the ecosystem we have to fix because we should have had what people thought we were getting when we piloted it 5 years ago, what they thought they'd have by now, and we haven't gotten it yet.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-491", "start": 3457.221, "end": 3457.333, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-492", "start": 3457.798, "end": 3471.862, "text": "So I'm looking forward to, to getting the same response, Nick, to that about, um, that, that Councilor Morillo is going to get from, from PSR about how we can accelerate that, because it's unacceptable to say now we're just delaying and we're starting over this expansion every time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-493", "start": 3472.215, "end": 3479.64, "text": "We have to expand for what we should have had 5 years ago now and not keep pushing back the starting point of the expansion program to get it to 24/7.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-494", "start": 3479.752, "end": 3480.089, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-495", "start": 3481.356, "end": 3482.045, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-496", "start": 3482.863, "end": 3486.187, "text": "Um, so I want to go back to page 18.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-497", "start": 3486.316, "end": 3494.064, "text": "And by the way, I don't want to overlook the fact that what you were asked for is like how long it would take and how much money it would take to do a certain kind of expansion.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-498", "start": 3494.518, "end": 3498.973, "text": "And we haven't really been touching on that, but I appreciate all the detail that you offered on that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-499", "start": 3501.469, "end": 3516.7, "text": "Going to page 18 of the report, it talks about response times going up, and it says there's many factors that contribute to this, including increased travel times, more complex or higher acuity calls requiring more officers, And fewer available patrol officers, meaning longer wait times.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-500", "start": 3517.38, "end": 3521.14, "text": "And then Mr. McDonald's presentation says we have the same number of patrol officers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-501", "start": 3521.6, "end": 3525.95, "text": "And then President Schmout says, well, it's not really true because a lot of those are trainees.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-502", "start": 3526.52, "end": 3537.52, "text": "And I would just encourage you, when you talk about a topic, talk— say the same things each time and talk about the nuances, because otherwise it looks like you're contradicting yourselves.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-503", "start": 3537.52, "end": 3540.22, "text": "Well, we have fewer available patrol officers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-504", "start": 3540.22, "end": 3541.02, "text": "No, we have the same number.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-505", "start": 3541.02, "end": 3541.14, "text": "I think Control that's a good point.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-506", "start": 3541.392, "end": 3541.841, "text": "Officers?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-507", "start": 3542.338, "end": 3547.019, "text": "And if the answer is we have the same number but they're not really as available, then please say that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-508", "start": 3548.35, "end": 3566.561, "text": "I would also say that the factors that were listed on page 18 don't include something that Chief Hughes mentioned, which I've heard before is important, which is that the police are— on some calls, the police are spending more time than they used to because they're more attention to de-escalation, etc.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-509", "start": 3568.221, "end": 3573.296, "text": "And that strikes me as something different from more complex or higher acuity calls requiring more officers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-510", "start": 3573.393, "end": 3577.98, "text": "That means you're spending more time on the same higher acuity calls.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-511", "start": 3579.529, "end": 3585.611, "text": "And what I'd like to see, we take up the issue response times again, is breaking these out.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-512", "start": 3586.37, "end": 3587.913, "text": "Do we have more complex calls?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-513", "start": 3588.108, "end": 3589.066, "text": "What's the data on that?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-514", "start": 3589.245, "end": 3590.366, "text": "What kind of calls are there?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-515", "start": 3590.854, "end": 3592.706, "text": "Do we have higher acuity calls, whatever that means?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-516", "start": 3592.803, "end": 3592.868, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-517", "start": 3593.389, "end": 3597.615, "text": "Are we spending more time on individual calls because we are doing a better job?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-518", "start": 3598.147, "end": 3600.324, "text": "And I'd like to have that kind of broken out.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-519", "start": 3602.482, "end": 3615.854, "text": "Another thing that I wanted to note is that somewhere in this report it says that when it comes to clearance rates, crimes that are never assigned to an investigator are not counted in the clearance rates.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-520", "start": 3616.533, "end": 3619.104, "text": "And I find that extremely alarming.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-521", "start": 3619.234, "end": 3632.685, "text": "I mean, I think that we should at least have a statistic for clearance rates, including crimes that were actual crimes, not just reports, that were not assigned, and then maybe a separate clearance rate for crimes that were assigned.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-522", "start": 3633.102, "end": 3638.909, "text": "But only having it for crimes that were assigned is not acceptable, frankly.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-523", "start": 3639.599, "end": 3652.259, "text": "And another thing I wanted to say is that I think that there's— you talk about It would be good to have more officers for domestic violence cases, for child abuse cases, for property crime investigations.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-524", "start": 3653.719, "end": 3656.56, "text": "And that's something I'm not complaining about.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-525", "start": 3656.624, "end": 3677.641, "text": "You're not providing detail on how much we need for each now, but I think that in future discussions about potentially increasing the size of the police force, we should have sort of a discussion of, okay, here's how many more people we think we would need in order to properly respond to the here's how many people we think we would need to properly respond to the child abuse crimes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-526", "start": 3677.915, "end": 3682.843, "text": "Here's how many people we think we would need to have more burglary investigations.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-527", "start": 3683.294, "end": 3691.621, "text": "Because I think that what the public would like to see, if we're talking about increasing the size of the police force, is increasing the size for what particular purposes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-528", "start": 3693.88, "end": 3694.726, "text": "So those are just—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-529", "start": 3694.726, "end": 3715.6, "text": "I mean, if anybody has any off-the-cuff responses, I'd be happy to hear them, but I just wanted to get those if I may, both you and Councilor Morillo have brought up, you know, work that's very important and that has historically been done by officers in non-patrol responses.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-530", "start": 3715.6, "end": 3717.88, "text": "And to the point of the study, those things have been removed.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-531", "start": 3717.88, "end": 3723.34, "text": "You know, ICAC, the Internet Crimes Against Children, is some of the most insidious things we see in our culture and society.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-532", "start": 3724.18, "end": 3725.76, "text": "You know, that team is much smaller.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-533", "start": 3725.76, "end": 3729.674, "text": "And also, and to the point of traffic, you know, we have a lot of officers that are doing a lot of you know, having traffic officers.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-534", "start": 3729.77, "end": 3739.292, "text": "I know that you guys just passed a no right on red ordinance, and, you know, there is the question of, you know, who's going to enforce it and how we're going to navigate that.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-535", "start": 3739.469, "end": 3742.723, "text": "And again, you know, just deciding what our priorities are.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-536", "start": 3743.476, "end": 3749.712, "text": "All of the things that you mentioned, Chair Novick, are things that are priorities that we have seen dwindle.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-537", "start": 3749.888, "end": 3757.661, "text": "The police bureau's structure historically was patrol would respond provide a package to some kind of non-patrol response to investigate.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-538", "start": 3758.078, "end": 3766.362, "text": "And we've seen nearly all of those catch basins be removed as a result of attrition because we have 200 less police officers today than we did 20 years ago.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-539", "start": 3767.291, "end": 3781.919, "text": "And so again, it's an issue of priority, it's an issue of structure, it's an— and I mean, as a street sergeant, you know, an issue of we do see our sergeants responding and taking more time to respond to some of our more difficult societal issues.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-540", "start": 3782.016, "end": 3785.581, "text": "Acuity is always kind of a hard measure because it depends on those being acted upon, I think.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-541", "start": 3786.549, "end": 3795.118, "text": "But we do need to, you know, allow our bureau to set those priorities for one, and for two, set a clear political statement about how we want to navigate all those things.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-542", "start": 3797.298, "end": 3797.622, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-543", "start": 3799.16, "end": 3799.209, "text": "I—.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-544", "start": 3800.487, "end": 3806.567, "text": "Okay, if any— maybe now set aside 7 minutes to have a lightning round.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-545", "start": 3806.984, "end": 3812.087, "text": "Do any councilors want to get in in a couple of minutes get further questions on the table, even if we don't have time to answer them.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-546", "start": 3816.246, "end": 3816.86, "text": "Legacy hand.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-547", "start": 3817.086, "end": 3818.831, "text": "Legacy.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-548", "start": 3819.785, "end": 3820.237, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-549", "start": 3821.563, "end": 3822.646, "text": "Thank you, Chair Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-550", "start": 3823.273, "end": 3843.749, "text": "Um, I, I, I think the, the thing that I wanted to, to talk about here, the table the other thing that baffled me, I mentioned there were 2, is the increase in a line that has 3 things together on it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-551", "start": 3844.233, "end": 3850.833, "text": "This is slide 6, I believe, which has, it's the second line.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-552", "start": 3851.108, "end": 3852.564, "text": "It says community engagement/BHU/SRO.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-553", "start": 3855.54, "end": 3859.125, "text": "First off, SRO here, Behavioral Health Unit and school resource officers, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-554", "start": 3859.593, "end": 3859.723, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-555", "start": 3860.122, "end": 3874.5, "text": "Okay, so, um, we've talked about community engagement and how there's a difference between the work of like, uh, former Chief Lovell in that area and Natasha Hansberger, all that, which I, I am very supportive of, and the idea of just broadly being at things.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-556", "start": 3874.548, "end": 3875.798, "text": "We talked about the holiday markets.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-557", "start": 3875.991, "end": 3876.135, "text": "I don't—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-558", "start": 3876.151, "end": 3877.048, "text": "I won't reiterate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-559", "start": 3877.898, "end": 3882.162, "text": "Generally supportive of the idea of BHU having, uh, having the resources it needs.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-560", "start": 3882.787, "end": 3892.9, "text": "Um, I don't like the idea of without any policy conversation on whether or not we want to return this program, talking about expanding the school resource officer model.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-561", "start": 3893.06, "end": 3900.38, "text": "I, um, I think that, that Sergeant Schmaltz is correct that there were gaps that were created for Portland Public Schools.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-562", "start": 3900.42, "end": 3902.06, "text": "Um, I think that, that Sergeant Schmaltz is correct that there were gaps that were created for Portland Public Schools.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-563", "start": 3902.06, "end": 3903.42, "text": "Um, I think that's their responsibility to handle.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-564", "start": 3903.42, "end": 3914.08, "text": "And I think one thing that we've done, and, and my colleague Councilor Smith has brought this up in other contexts many times, um, we take on jobs that other jurisdictions should be doing, um, quite a bit.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-565", "start": 3914.08, "end": 3915.34, "text": "And I, I, I want to have that conversation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-566", "start": 3916.116, "end": 3923.035, "text": "I also think that the, the model of school resource officers is not one that we should just be bringing back without a conversation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-567", "start": 3923.741, "end": 3927.209, "text": "And I, I really want to, uh, that, that was pretty problematic to me.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-568", "start": 3927.449, "end": 3934.689, "text": "I think we should disaggregate that stat, have it separate, and ideally keep it at zero for that particular line while looking at BHU getting what it needs.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-569", "start": 3935.38, "end": 3939.007, "text": "Um, North Precinct needs, needs the capital work.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-570", "start": 3939.248, "end": 3941.174, "text": "There's no question about that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-571", "start": 3941.319, "end": 3945.457, "text": "The physical building, I don't think anyone has who's been in that building thinks otherwise.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-572", "start": 3945.505, "end": 3950.584, "text": "I think it's pretty clear that the Central Precinct needs replacement or, or work as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-573", "start": 3951.69, "end": 3959.494, "text": "Similarly though, we haven't had the conversation outside of the Bureau referencing it and other things for the, the Fourth Precinct.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-574", "start": 3959.766, "end": 3961.225, "text": "So that's all context.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-575", "start": 3961.289, "end": 3969.621, "text": "My lightning question is, where's the authorization or where's the prior conversation about the where the stuff would go?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-576", "start": 3970.204, "end": 3972.554, "text": "Because some of this stuff makes a lot of sense in here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-577", "start": 3974.052, "end": 3976.821, "text": "Op support, traffic transit makes sense to me, for example.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-578", "start": 3978.415, "end": 3983.447, "text": "But even if it is a— it's a 1,500%, but it's 6 people, so anything's going to have a huge percentage change.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-579", "start": 3984.144, "end": 3985.828, "text": "Where were these things identified?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-580", "start": 3987.998, "end": 3993.718, "text": "So I think that warrants additional discussion, like you said, and like Councilor Smith said, from public input.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-581", "start": 3993.88, "end": 3999.278, "text": "This was just kind of take a look at where the bureau is, where we'd like to aspirationally see it go.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-582", "start": 4000.008, "end": 4013.681, "text": "Councilors have at numerous times told me that they would appreciate a precinct per district, that they could be connected to their commander, their command staff, and we could have each precinct aligned with council districts.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-583", "start": 4014.1, "end": 4015.226, "text": "So that's where that came from.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-584", "start": 4017.02, "end": 4029.361, "text": "Some of the other conversations are just like President Schmaltz was saying, when you scale up the organization and make it bigger, there's a number of other areas that need to expand as well, like include traffic, or not traffic, but training.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-585", "start": 4029.41, "end": 4029.475, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-586", "start": 4030.396, "end": 4037.843, "text": "You know, that is a, I think, a miss on this slide where we didn't really proportionately increase the training as much as I think we probably should have.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-587", "start": 4039.159, "end": 4042.946, "text": "That's kind of a finite pipeline though, 'cause of the state academy.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-588", "start": 4043.091, "end": 4045.225, "text": "We can only get so many people through the state academy, right?", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-589", "start": 4046.06, "end": 4048.018, "text": "So this is aspirational.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-590", "start": 4048.227, "end": 4054.646, "text": "It needs more vetting out, I think, for, like I said, with discussion with public about what they would like to see from their police department.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-591", "start": 4055.272, "end": 4055.497, "text": "So.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-592", "start": 4055.77, "end": 4056.267, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-593", "start": 4056.813, "end": 4060.148, "text": "Yeah, right now I don't have all the details on exactly how that was.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-594", "start": 4060.261, "end": 4064.96, "text": "I was part of some of these conversations, and I think frankly it's mostly just scale increase.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-595", "start": 4065.248, "end": 4065.569, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-596", "start": 4065.697, "end": 4074.406, "text": "And then just on the precinct, we modeled an additional precinct because we don't have currently somewhere to put 350 new sworn officers and the ancillary non-sworn staff.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-597", "start": 4074.919, "end": 4076.362, "text": "You could model this with 3 precincts.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-598", "start": 4076.442, "end": 4080.644, "text": "You would need to substantially increase each precinct, and it would be kind of a wash financially.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-599", "start": 4080.692, "end": 4082.039, "text": "That's just a decision that would have to be made.", "speaker": "Nick McDonald" }, { "id": "cue-600", "start": 4082.74, "end": 4083.98, "text": "I get that for operations.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-601", "start": 4084.06, "end": 4085.52, "text": "I think capital would—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-602", "start": 4085.52, "end": 4090.28, "text": "Can I respond to the, just the SRO portion, just 'cause it's important to me, 'cause I ran it?", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-603", "start": 4090.98, "end": 4091.52, "text": "2 minutes.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-604", "start": 4091.52, "end": 4094.56, "text": "Quickly, I wanna give the opportunity to the rest of the members.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-605", "start": 4094.56, "end": 4096.9, "text": "So just to the point, SRO is, it should say YSD.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-606", "start": 4096.9, "end": 4099.46, "text": "The Youth Services Division was not just cops in schools.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-607", "start": 4099.46, "end": 4101.76, "text": "It was a very robust program.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-608", "start": 4101.86, "end": 4108.32, "text": "And at the Coffee with a Cop, very prominent leaders in our Black community have said to me they wanna see our cops playing basketball with kids again.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-609", "start": 4108.32, "end": 4118.301, "text": "But I would tell you that it's a moral imperative for all of us and not just a responsibility of Portland Public ensure the diversion of our young people from the criminal justice system, and that starts with partnership.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-610", "start": 4118.461, "end": 4122.298, "text": "And so I do think that us having that partnership matters.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-611", "start": 4122.716, "end": 4127.597, "text": "How we do that is, is definitely worthy of, to your point, desegregation and real conversation.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-612", "start": 4128.592, "end": 4137.037, "text": "But it was through our Youth Services Division that we saved a lot of kids from a pathway they were on, and that partnership begins with non-conflict interaction with young people.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-613", "start": 4137.118, "end": 4138.627, "text": "I'll look forward to that conversation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-614", "start": 4139.109, "end": 4139.799, "text": "Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-615", "start": 4141.836, "end": 4142.237, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-616", "start": 4142.702, "end": 4143.504, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Chairman.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-617", "start": 4143.68, "end": 4164.016, "text": "I want to thank everybody for coming, and, um, I don't have a lightning question, but I think, um, perception is reality, and the perception that the public has is that we don't have enough folks to, to man the, the bottle drop on 122nd and Gleason.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-618", "start": 4164.529, "end": 4172.576, "text": "We don't have enough folks to stop the drug dealing that happens, you know, a block, 2 blocks, 3 blocks away.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-619", "start": 4173.249, "end": 4181.777, "text": "And that perception, while it may not be true, but it is what drives folks.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-620", "start": 4181.905, "end": 4192.902, "text": "And I think it's going to be so important for us to have those conversations that you were talking about, Chief, in regards to the community, have those conversations yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-621", "start": 4193.046, "end": 4197.759, "text": "All over those, you know, coffees with community all across the city.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-622", "start": 4198.496, "end": 4206.494, "text": "Um, I've invited many of our, uh, our city council people to come and, and participate.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-623", "start": 4207.232, "end": 4214.076, "text": "And I, I'm happy to say that the chair, he came by, and, and so he saw the importance of, of having community.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-624", "start": 4214.124, "end": 4217.955, "text": "And we have community from not just District 1 but from the entire city.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-625", "start": 4218.308, "end": 4225.459, "text": "But I do think that we need to have some conversations across all districts with law enforcement, PSR.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-626", "start": 4225.989, "end": 4235.082, "text": "We brought them out last month to make sure that people understand that there are different levels of public safety and the different levels of public safety that we, that we have.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-627", "start": 4235.611, "end": 4237.086, "text": "So I just want to say thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-628", "start": 4237.375, "end": 4258.007, "text": "I know that you have been on a tour in regards to this report, and it's— thank you for putting it together because for us, it just gives me a baseline of, of understanding where we could be, what the possible is, whether or not we're going to go in that direction that this report says.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-629", "start": 4258.12, "end": 4272.038, "text": "But at some point, we're going to be able to, to do some of these items in a way that's meaningful and that it cuts down the, uh, the, the overtime, because the overtime is, is egregious.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-630", "start": 4272.957, "end": 4276.707, "text": "But I understand it, and I understand why we can't get the overtime down.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-631", "start": 4276.819, "end": 4293.388, "text": "But I am concerned, just like the CA Lee is, about having people do overtime and, um, and they're not fully rested and healthy to be able to, um, to address some of the concerns that they have to as, you know, a patrol officer.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-632", "start": 4293.805, "end": 4295.52, "text": "So thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chairman.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-633", "start": 4295.632, "end": 4297.138, "text": "I don't have any more questions.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-634", "start": 4297.555, "end": 4302.431, "text": "Um, And I am— I will lend my time to someone else who has another question.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-635", "start": 4303.012, "end": 4304.624, "text": "Um, thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-636", "start": 4304.801, "end": 4309.155, "text": "And we actually have hit 10:37, which is my chosen extension time.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-637", "start": 4309.59, "end": 4314.149, "text": "Thank you very much, Councilor, for being responsible for this report being generated and for this discussion.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-638", "start": 4314.779, "end": 4317.288, "text": "Um, and thank you, thank you all, really appreciate it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-639", "start": 4319.113, "end": 4320.45, "text": "Uh, could the clerk read the next item?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-640", "start": 4322.48, "end": 4324.559, "text": "Item number 3, document 2026-01.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-641", "start": 4326.32, "end": 4339.477, "text": "6-123, Amend code related to prohibitions on possession of firearms within certain city buildings to disallow affirmative defense for persons with concealed handgun licenses.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-642", "start": 4340.078, "end": 4357.914, "text": "Amend code sections 3.18.020, 14A.60.010, and 20 thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-643", "start": 4358.285, "end": 4368.703, "text": "Um, this item was brought to us by President Dunphy, but originally the idea came from the administration, and the administration is here at its highest form in CA Lee.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-644", "start": 4369.349, "end": 4374.807, "text": "I wanted to ask CA Lee to lead off by just explaining why the administration thinks this is an important thing to get done.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-645", "start": 4376.44, "end": 4377.997, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-646", "start": 4378.965, "end": 4405.638, "text": "Just for some historical purposes as it relates to this subject matter and how it came to be, this conversation really started in kind of 2 separate areas of the administration, one from a public safety service area conversation as it relates to them being made aware that the county was moving in this direction of prohibiting firearms within their public meetings.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-647", "start": 4406.23, "end": 4416.297, "text": "The second one was from my end, and this goes back to some of the conversations in council meetings that we had as it relates to the ICE facility.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-648", "start": 4416.636, "end": 4426.494, "text": "And when we had a citizen actually kind of break the barrier and come into the DICE area, I started asking questions of our staff.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-649", "start": 4426.816, "end": 4433.532, "text": "What are our protocols as it relates to safety, security, as it relates to our council meetings?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-650", "start": 4433.581, "end": 4433.629, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-651", "start": 4434.217, "end": 4442.066, "text": "And within that conversation, it came up that we do allow firearms concealed carry into our chambers.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-652", "start": 4442.339, "end": 4454.811, "text": "And that was a new phenomenon for me because majority of the cities I've worked in are aware of, and just best management practices, it was not allowed in the council chambers or council setting.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-653", "start": 4456.16, "end": 4461.746, "text": "So we started having this conversation along with the Public Safety Service Area, which Yes.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-654", "start": 4461.858, "end": 4467.592, "text": "It was stated to me at that point in time that they were evaluating, evaluating this situation.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-655", "start": 4467.945, "end": 4485.676, "text": "But also, uh, in the council president's check-in, I kind of asked his thoughts on the matter as well as it relates to, you know, what he has seen through the history of this body and being a council aide previously and also serving as a council president.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-656", "start": 4485.772, "end": 4492.883, "text": "What was his appetite for consideration of taken a look at this policy from a best practices standpoint.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-657", "start": 4493.156, "end": 4515.509, "text": "One of my responsibilities, uh, as in this role is just to ensure the safety not only of staff but even the community that are entering these chambers to voice their concerns, feedbacks, or just provide comments to the City Council as it relates to certain policies or discussion points that are happening in front of this body.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-658", "start": 4516.103, "end": 4540.453, "text": "I do, and I did feel it was a concern, especially as tensions are rising on a lot of these conversations that we're having at the dais to ensure that we're creating a safe environment for not only the council, but also for citizens and community members who are joining us on a meeting basis to ensure that they are safe during these proceedings.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-659", "start": 4540.966, "end": 4542.747, "text": "That was really the essence.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-660", "start": 4542.795, "end": 4542.939, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-661", "start": 4543.676, "end": 4548.547, "text": "Of why, uh, as administration, we thought it was good to have this conversation.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-662", "start": 4548.964, "end": 4560.645, "text": "Anytime, you know, we're looking at best management practices that may impact the way that people engage with us, we want to make sure we're doing it in a constructive and intentional fashion.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-663", "start": 4561.703, "end": 4565.853, "text": "And that was part of the reason why we wanted to bring it in front of this body for consideration.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-664", "start": 4565.949, "end": 4570.227, "text": "We know ultimately the council will make the final decision as it relates to it.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-665", "start": 4570.275, "end": 4570.515, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-666", "start": 4570.919, "end": 4587.073, "text": "But we just wanted to make sure that council was aware of what was happening around us in the surrounding areas, but also bringing subject matter expertise to the conversation as well around best management practices as it relates to these type of settings and meetings to ensure that people are safe.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-667", "start": 4588.541, "end": 4589.025, "text": "Thank you, Mr.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-668", "start": 4589.074, "end": 4589.525, "text": "Administrator.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-669", "start": 4589.59, "end": 4611.203, "text": "I want to note that, um, at some point here I'm going to introduce Councilor Dunphy's Amendment 2, which would require the city administrator to adopt administrative rule to clarify various things including a standard operating procedure for enforcement of such prohibitions that uses— that includes notice and opportunity to cure, ejection or exclusion prior to referral to law enforcement.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-670", "start": 4611.817, "end": 4620.411, "text": "And I just want to give you the opportunity to say that it's your intention to set up a process which will make it clear that referral to law enforcement is a last resort.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-671", "start": 4622.6, "end": 4623.597, "text": "100%.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-672", "start": 4624.462, "end": 4624.811, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-673", "start": 4625.832, "end": 4627.453, "text": "President Dunphy, I saw your hand up earlier.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-674", "start": 4627.517, "end": 4628.255, "text": "Do you want to add anything?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-675", "start": 4629.668, "end": 4637.757, "text": "You know, I just was hoping to clarify some of the specifics of what this new amendment does and some of the work that has gone on since my last time being here.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-676", "start": 4637.805, "end": 4641.336, "text": "I think this is my 4th, maybe 5th time for this committee on this item.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-677", "start": 4642.026, "end": 4650.757, "text": "But I, you know, this is an item that, as has been discussed, I am introducing on behalf of the administration, but this is something I have my full weight behind.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-678", "start": 4651.889, "end": 4657.593, "text": "I'd like to just sort of note a couple of things that have changed and some of the things that you specifically mentioned here.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-679", "start": 4659.848, "end": 4666.226, "text": "First, city's HR policies prevent city staff from carrying firearms on the job.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-680", "start": 4666.42, "end": 4672.863, "text": "The administration— administrative rule is workplace called Workplace Violence Prohibited, HRAR 4.12.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-681", "start": 4673.602, "end": 4676.601, "text": "Council passed this back in 2002 by ordinance.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-682", "start": 4676.732, "end": 4680.618, "text": "And so no employees or elected officials should have been carrying at work.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-683", "start": 4681.142, "end": 4682.393, "text": "For the last 25 years.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-684", "start": 4683.804, "end": 4698.713, "text": "Second, as was mentioned, if this ordinance were to pass, the highest level of criminal risk for somebody who brought a concealed carry licensed gun into one of the— either the Portland Building, City Hall, or the 1900 Building would be a Class A misdemeanor.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-685", "start": 4699.097, "end": 4706.584, "text": "That is a real penalty, but as you may hear from staff later, that person would need to make a lot of compounding bad decisions to get the police thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-686", "start": 4706.632, "end": 4708.96, "text": "And then we would have to have a felony conviction if the police called on them for having a concealed handgun in here.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-687", "start": 4709.425, "end": 4714.063, "text": "And at the end of all the possible decision trees, there would not be a felony conviction.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-688", "start": 4715.203, "end": 4721.318, "text": "And finally, state law has really strong preemptions on local gun laws.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-689", "start": 4721.719, "end": 4726.839, "text": "So essentially, if we're going to exclude concealed handguns from these buildings, we only have this one tool.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-690", "start": 4727.882, "end": 4738.46, "text": "We can soften some of the edges, and the Dunphy II Amendment does some of that, but we so the amendment does 2 things.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-691", "start": 4738.46, "end": 4752, "text": "First, uh, when Mike Porter took over on this ordinance when Linda Law retired, he noticed that the code as written could potentially be read as creating a new local-level firearm violation that would be preempted under state law.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-692", "start": 4752, "end": 4754.6, "text": "So Dunphy 2 clarifies that that is not the case.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-693", "start": 4755.36, "end": 4758.38, "text": "Then the amendment directs the city administrator to create thank a draft ordinance that would be able to be adopted by the council.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-694", "start": 4758.38, "end": 4758.42, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-695", "start": 4758.63, "end": 4758.63, "text": "You, Mayor.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-696", "start": 4758.63, "end": 4765.03, "text": "Councilmember Zimmerman, I would like to make a motion to create administrative rules through standard rulemaking process to clarify a few concerns that have come up in the hearings.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-697", "start": 4765.21, "end": 4778.1, "text": "First, to Councilor Zimmerman's concerns, we would require security to have standard operating procedures for dealing with an unauthorized CHL, ensuring that we start with education on the rules and an opportunity to do the right thing and go store the one.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-698", "start": 4778.27, "end": 4793.074, "text": "Second, to Councilor Kanal's concerns, the city administrator would need to define the exact terms around which buildings are considered CHL-free zones and layout process for other buildings to be temporarily or permanently included or disincluded.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-699", "start": 4793.138, "end": 4805.53, "text": "That would mean that if we have additional rules around firearms at a community board meeting that's not in one of these 3 buildings, the way we decide to do or not do that should be consistent and uniform across the city.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-700", "start": 4806.268, "end": 4810.227, "text": "Um, so, colleagues, I hope that this is my last opportunity to be before you.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-701", "start": 4810.757, "end": 4815.333, "text": "Um, I urge you to adopt the Dunphy 2 amendment, and thank you for everybody for the feedback.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-702", "start": 4815.429, "end": 4821.032, "text": "It has meaningfully improved this ordinance, and I of course urge you to vote yes and refer this to full council.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-703", "start": 4821.353, "end": 4826.908, "text": "And I'm available for questions, though there are far better subject matter experts here who can answer better questions than me.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-704", "start": 4827.551, "end": 4827.775, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-705", "start": 4828.273, "end": 4829.076, "text": "Thank you, Mr. President.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-706", "start": 4829.14, "end": 4831.259, "text": "Councilor Kanal, is that a legacy hand or is that a real hand?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-707", "start": 4831.564, "end": 4832.544, "text": "It's a real hand.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-708", "start": 4832.608, "end": 4832.977, "text": "Go ahead.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-709", "start": 4834.149, "end": 4835.466, "text": "So, 2 questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-710", "start": 4835.883, "end": 4848.188, "text": "One is Uh, you know, in the description of the amendment, it says that it, it attempts to clarify something, uh, with relation to what, um, what buildings we're talking about.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-711", "start": 4848.589, "end": 4858.196, "text": "But then in the, the code itself, the— this is Amendment Dunphy 2— it says that the city administrator will adopt a policy identifying.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-712", "start": 4858.774, "end": 4866.805, "text": "So my— just to be clear, our, our intention, if this amendment should pass, is that the city administrator will decide whether or not a building is included in this or not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-713", "start": 4866.901, "end": 4872.553, "text": "I think it's fairly clear that the 3 downtown buildings are going to be in this, uh, 1900 building, Portland building, and here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-714", "start": 4872.922, "end": 4884.692, "text": "But in terms of other things, our, our intention, if this should pass, is that the city administrator will be making that decision through a process that is consistent, consistent, but ultimately not council.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-715", "start": 4886.105, "end": 4886.972, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-716", "start": 4892.389, "end": 4903.758, "text": "In as much as that standard rulemaking generally is the purview of the administration and the public process involved in that, but there is often an opportunity for council to weigh in as well.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-717", "start": 4904.032, "end": 4905.677, "text": "I'll turn to the city administrator for that, though.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-718", "start": 4908.916, "end": 4911.624, "text": "I'll have to lean on legal for that one.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-719", "start": 4912.156, "end": 4913.833, "text": "And the other question I have is legal, too.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-720", "start": 4913.929, "end": 4918.728, "text": "So I'll just get it out of the way, although I'm not sure if it's for Mike or a different attorney, and I'll let him say it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-721", "start": 4919.338, "end": 4928.972, "text": "Um, there are bodies that constitute governing bodies under the charter that may want their meetings, regardless of location, to be included or not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-722", "start": 4929.678, "end": 4948.904, "text": "And I'm— I want to make sure that there would be nothing preventing, for example, the CBPA from saying our meeting, even if it's not here, constitutes a governing body, an official meeting, and should be subject to this protection, and that there's no legal We're not curtailing that or affecting it in any way is the question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-723", "start": 4949.642, "end": 4950.316, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kern.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-724", "start": 4950.364, "end": 4951.697, "text": "Michael Poore with the City Attorney's Office.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-725", "start": 4951.921, "end": 4957.603, "text": "I'll take them in reverse order since that's top of mind, and I'm just coming back from a couple weeks off, so I'm a little slow.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-726", "start": 4958.405, "end": 4972.751, "text": "But so to your first question, I believe Robert Taylor spoke to this several weeks ago and said that this can be as expansive or as narrow for subcommittees and groups as council and city administrator's office through the administrative rulemaking process wanted to make it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-727", "start": 4973.409, "end": 4974.691, "text": "So I think there's room for that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-728", "start": 4975.477, "end": 4981.491, "text": "Uh, sorry, room for that meaning that this amendment, Dunphy 2, would not curtail that in any way?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-729", "start": 4981.571, "end": 4981.972, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-730", "start": 4982.084, "end": 4982.598, "text": "Okay, thanks.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-731", "start": 4982.934, "end": 4983.095, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-732", "start": 4983.576, "end": 4991.931, "text": "Um, and then to your first question, starting from the beginning, we talk about clarifying, and then I, I can't remember the I word we use, but identifying perhaps.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-733", "start": 4992.637, "end": 4994.593, "text": "Clarifying meaning that the statutes—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-734", "start": 4994.657, "end": 4999.115, "text": "There are 3 ordinances that are affected by this amendment.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-735", "start": 4999.611, "end": 5008.701, "text": "And that's the clarifying that the cross Titles 14 and a few others, 14, 20, and 3, we are clarifying language.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-736", "start": 5008.845, "end": 5027.222, "text": "And then to the identification portion that others could speak to, but I worked on as well, what we're attempting to do is take the terms of the state law that was passed and then give them meaning through, uh, administrative rules.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-737", "start": 5027.319, "end": 5030.56, "text": "So governing body, things like that, is the identification piece.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-738", "start": 5034.627, "end": 5035.648, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-739", "start": 5036.15, "end": 5038.645, "text": "Um, goodness, I see no councilors in the queue.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-740", "start": 5039.38, "end": 5041.828, "text": "Does anybody have anything to say?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-741", "start": 5044.711, "end": 5045.694, "text": "Are we just on the amendment?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-742", "start": 5046.161, "end": 5048.013, "text": "Um, actually, good point.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-743", "start": 5048.11, "end": 5050.264, "text": "I should I should introduce the amendment.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-744", "start": 5051.29, "end": 5053.196, "text": "I introduce Dunphy Amendment 2.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-745", "start": 5053.469, "end": 5055.119, "text": "I would appreciate a second.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-746", "start": 5055.311, "end": 5056.08, "text": "I'll second.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-747", "start": 5056.288, "end": 5057.41, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-748", "start": 5057.875, "end": 5058.355, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-749", "start": 5058.516, "end": 5059.573, "text": "Councilors both seconds.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-750", "start": 5060.054, "end": 5060.839, "text": "So now it's introduced.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-751", "start": 5061.464, "end": 5062.825, "text": "Yes, to the amendment, Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-752", "start": 5063.082, "end": 5063.627, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-753", "start": 5063.963, "end": 5069.379, "text": "Well, I appreciate some of the work that has gone, and I think some of the spirit that's behind this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-754", "start": 5070.772, "end": 5079.364, "text": "The council president, when he was describing this amendment, said that a person would have to make a lot of compounding bad decisions for a Class A misdemeanor to be used.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-755", "start": 5079.508, "end": 5081.675, "text": "That's actually not how laws are enforced.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-756", "start": 5082.237, "end": 5083.28, "text": "It's not how laws are written.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-757", "start": 5084.179, "end": 5101.544, "text": "So an SOP is, I think, a good procedure, but a different or new security guard can quickly just get a hold of police and say, I have a violation occurring here, and then that police officer could show up and decide to enforce.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-758", "start": 5101.8, "end": 5104.952, "text": "What I'm trying to paint a picture here is that yes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-759", "start": 5105.858, "end": 5117.854, "text": "We shouldn't pass a law that has such a broad discretion in terms of— or let me say it this way.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-760", "start": 5118.194, "end": 5124.305, "text": "We shouldn't pass a law and expect that it will never get enforced because of this idea of discretion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-761", "start": 5124.742, "end": 5128.741, "text": "And I think that when you do, you see that things can get used in different ways.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-762", "start": 5128.79, "end": 5129.745, "text": "And so I'm cautious there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-763", "start": 5130.604, "end": 5134.248, "text": "And I say that with respect for the amendment and what it's trying to achieve.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-764", "start": 5134.329, "end": 5148.745, "text": "But again, I'll go back to this continues to actually not address those people today who are following the law, and it's not addressing those people today who are breaking the law.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-765", "start": 5149.117, "end": 5163.523, "text": "It is creating a new class of law to be broken by those who have already put their name on a On a registry and gotten fingerprinted and gone through the training program, et cetera, et cetera, to meet the letter of the law.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-766", "start": 5163.619, "end": 5174.838, "text": "So I just, to the amendment only, Chair, I just wanted, I will likely support this amendment because I think it makes this underlying better.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-767", "start": 5175.754, "end": 5188.716, "text": "But this underlying idea that nobody's going to ever violate this law and so don't worry about it is, is It's not a way in which I believe we should be tackling this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-768", "start": 5189.216, "end": 5191.992, "text": "A gun law violation is a serious violation.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-769", "start": 5194.053, "end": 5198.345, "text": "And, well, and I'll hold there until we get to the underline.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-770", "start": 5198.719, "end": 5199.532, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-771", "start": 5200.405, "end": 5200.604, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-772", "start": 5200.654, "end": 5201.282, "text": "Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-773", "start": 5201.812, "end": 5202.226, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-774", "start": 5202.309, "end": 5202.838, "text": "Thank you, Mr.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-775", "start": 5202.888, "end": 5203.086, "text": "Chair.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-776", "start": 5204.61, "end": 5206.04, "text": "Who am I talking to?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-777", "start": 5206.105, "end": 5215.628, "text": "Am I talking to Council President as the maker of the, of the ordinance or to the DCA?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-778", "start": 5217.096, "end": 5218.238, "text": "I kind of think you can take your pick.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-779", "start": 5219.299, "end": 5226.177, "text": "Okay, um, I'll ask the DCA.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-780", "start": 5226.452, "end": 5243.775, "text": "If a licensed concealed carrier holder unknowingly enters a covered building with a firearm, will that individual first be informed of the restriction and given an opportunity to leave and secure the firearm before the police are contacted?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-781", "start": 5244.801, "end": 5245.908, "text": "I would believe so, yes.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-782", "start": 5246.342, "end": 5246.582, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-783", "start": 5247.93, "end": 5259.674, "text": "And to, to back that up, under what circumstances would staff immediately refer someone to law enforcement rather than first offering an opportunity to comply?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-784", "start": 5261.97, "end": 5269.044, "text": "And I'm, I'm gonna be speaking a little off the cuff because this would all be a part of the SOP that would be developed for this.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-785", "start": 5269.463, "end": 5288.402, "text": "I think when any person that was entering our facility and not complying with the rules of this facility, we will first try to communicate with that individual and escort that individual out of the facility just through our normal norms of our security protocols here at the city.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-786", "start": 5288.467, "end": 5288.693, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-787", "start": 5289.757, "end": 5306.901, "text": "If that person is refusing to leave, just like if we had someone refusing to leave the chambers or the building after they have been asked to leave, then we would engage with police to come on scene to have that person comply with leaving the facility.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-788", "start": 5307.398, "end": 5307.574, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-789", "start": 5308.44, "end": 5314.919, "text": "And when we're making this transition, will signs be posted at the building entrances and will they be visible?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-790", "start": 5315, "end": 5318.801, "text": "Visible before a person enters the security screening area?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-791", "start": 5319.347, "end": 5322.667, "text": "Uh, yes, and we'd have to meet ADA compliance as well too.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-792", "start": 5322.732, "end": 5332.645, "text": "So even the signage or whatever we do would have to be compliant so that people would know that they're entering a gun-safe zone as they enter our facilities.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-793", "start": 5333.704, "end": 5346.149, "text": "And the last question is, who will train security personnel and city employees on the progressive enforcement procedure, and how will the city ensure it it is applied consistently?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-794", "start": 5347.149, "end": 5349.131, "text": "Yeah, very good question.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-795", "start": 5349.309, "end": 5359.299, "text": "As it relates to city employees, that's part of our normal training as we onboard people into the organization, is letting them know they're not supposed to carry guns into the facility.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-796", "start": 5360.746, "end": 5383.639, "text": "As it relates to our security, we will leave that up to our head of security, Manny, to work with our contractor, because this is a contract service that we have as it relates to our facility security now to make sure that they are aware of our policies and procedures as it relates to carrying concealed or carrying guns, period, right, on our premises.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-797", "start": 5384.297, "end": 5384.891, "text": "I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-798", "start": 5384.956, "end": 5385.293, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-799", "start": 5385.421, "end": 5400.983, "text": "And Council President, um, I just want you to know that I am prepared to support this ordinance because I believe that government meetings should be safe and they be welcoming spaces, but, uh, lawful gun owners must receive clear notice when, when the rules change.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-800", "start": 5401.802, "end": 5415.803, "text": "And someone who enters without threatening anyone and genuinely does not know that a building is covered should be informed and given a, a meaningful opportunity to comply before the situation becomes a, uh, criminal matter.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-801", "start": 5415.884, "end": 5419.496, "text": "So I appreciate your, your comments, um, CA Lee.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-802", "start": 5420.427, "end": 5421.904, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-803", "start": 5421.952, "end": 5422.626, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-804", "start": 5423.011, "end": 5438.017, "text": "Just to clarify on the— would you expect, CA Lee, that the signage would be somewhat similar, different content, but similar in terms of where it is and how it's used to the Sanctuary and Protect Portland Initiative signage that's gone up?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-805", "start": 5438.9, "end": 5439.606, "text": "Probably so.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-806", "start": 5440.729, "end": 5445.929, "text": "I would want to look at it more in detail to kind of see directly where that signage is placed throughout.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-807", "start": 5447.438, "end": 5450.285, "text": "Entering our facilities, but also inside our facilities.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-808", "start": 5450.413, "end": 5453.019, "text": "But I could see it lining up pretty well with that.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-809", "start": 5453.341, "end": 5453.63, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-810", "start": 5454.129, "end": 5457.683, "text": "Yeah, I think I'm generally inclined to support the amendment.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-811", "start": 5458.091, "end": 5459.69, "text": "That doesn't— I still have questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-812", "start": 5459.869, "end": 5462.464, "text": "Most of my questions are about the underlying ordinance, though.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-813", "start": 5465.603, "end": 5472.839, "text": "I think I don't love the idea of us continually saying we're going to do things through administrative rule.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-814", "start": 5473.718, "end": 5484.444, "text": "Um, this is narrower than I had originally thought it was going to be, so I, I'm okay with that, um, because it, it is, uh, not actually substituting on some of the questions that my colleagues raised.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-815", "start": 5484.637, "end": 5491.284, "text": "The code itself has some guardrails for that, and I think if we have an issue, we should be changing those guardrails as opposed to this part.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-816", "start": 5491.332, "end": 5497.498, "text": "So I'm, I'm going to support the amendment, but I do think we should really get into the details on the, the ordinance itself, proposed ordinance itself.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-817", "start": 5499.092, "end": 5499.885, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-818", "start": 5500.176, "end": 5503.929, "text": "Seeing no else in the queue for the amendment, could the clerk please call the roll on the amendment?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-819", "start": 5505.91, "end": 5509.38, "text": "Yes, for the amendment labeled Denphy 2, Kanal.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-820", "start": 5510.784, "end": 5510.929, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-821", "start": 5511.833, "end": 5512.156, "text": "Morillo.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-822", "start": 5512.624, "end": 5512.672, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-823", "start": 5513.705, "end": 5514.109, "text": "Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-824", "start": 5514.415, "end": 5514.577, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-825", "start": 5515.11, "end": 5515.271, "text": "Smith.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-826", "start": 5515.85, "end": 5515.899, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-827", "start": 5516.591, "end": 5516.978, "text": "Novick.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-828", "start": 5517.3, "end": 5517.348, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-829", "start": 5518.186, "end": 5528.881, "text": "Uh, with 5 ayes, the motion to amend the ordinance as shown in Denphy 2 has all right, any comments, questions to the underlying?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-830", "start": 5531.317, "end": 5531.705, "text": "Mr. Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-831", "start": 5533.355, "end": 5536.639, "text": "Okay, um, we've had this topic up a few times.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-832", "start": 5537.707, "end": 5546.138, "text": "I've been in a briefing with some city staff from the attorney's office and from the Public Safety Service Area.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-833", "start": 5546.848, "end": 5559.934, "text": "On September 1st, I sent an email to the city administrator and one of our senior deputies or Chief Deputy Attorneys asking for the records related to all the work that's— that was important to the origin of this work.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-834", "start": 5561.055, "end": 5563.357, "text": "That records request has gone unanswered.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-835", "start": 5564.903, "end": 5566.094, "text": "I have received no records.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-836", "start": 5566.593, "end": 5573.689, "text": "So if I'm wrong about that, I would encourage those who that request went to to tell me I'm wrong and that you did send them all over.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-837", "start": 5574.172, "end": 5582.036, "text": "But I have no emails, no documents, no Teams chats, none of the things that I asked for 2 weeks ago related to this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-838", "start": 5582.791, "end": 5592.207, "text": "The reason I did that was that the meeting that we had left me deeply unsatisfied with the answers that came from where did this come from, why is it being pursued.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-839", "start": 5592.255, "end": 5594.055, "text": "And you addressed a little bit of that today, Mr.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-840", "start": 5594.103, "end": 5604.209, "text": "Administrator, but I don't take kindly to what I felt was a reasonable request and was told by the city attorney that that request would be fulfilled.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-841", "start": 5604.642, "end": 5607.126, "text": "And that it has not been 14 days later.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-842", "start": 5608.264, "end": 5616.87, "text": "So this is a topic now that I think has been unnecessarily brought to this committee multiple times without a lot of work happening in between.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-843", "start": 5617.463, "end": 5625.845, "text": "And so it hasn't been well managed, that there is a sense of not wanting to work on through some things.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-844", "start": 5626.037, "end": 5631.999, "text": "And the meeting that I was brought into was just frankly a, here's our final solution thing that we want to present.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-845", "start": 5632.063, "end": 5633.104, "text": "There's nothing else we can do.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-846", "start": 5633.313, "end": 5634.387, "text": "There was no discussion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-847", "start": 5634.435, "end": 5637.227, "text": "There was no let's get some ideas.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-848", "start": 5637.404, "end": 5639.796, "text": "It was just, this is the thing, we'll see you in committee.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-849", "start": 5640.069, "end": 5651.261, "text": "And that's why— that's what spurred my request for this, because as I understand it, some members of the council president's team and others perhaps in the city administration's public safety area have been working on their pet project.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-850", "start": 5651.309, "end": 5659.113, "text": "But this is certainly not what I was expecting when the chair referred it some months ago back for some additional work.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-851", "start": 5659.193, "end": 5659.466, "text": "So—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-852", "start": 5659.578, "end": 5659.899, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-853", "start": 5661.514, "end": 5675.345, "text": "That doesn't necessarily mean that this is, for me, an ordinance dead on arrival, but it's certainly an ordinance where I'm struggling to, to make a decision.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-854", "start": 5675.555, "end": 5677.171, "text": "It has not ingrained itself to me.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-855", "start": 5679.922, "end": 5688.189, "text": "I've asked that we look at this in a way so that we are not doing what I think this ordinance will do, will result in more guns being left in cars.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-856", "start": 5688.522, "end": 5689.711, "text": "That's what I think is going to happen.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-857", "start": 5690.369, "end": 5709.823, "text": "So I'm just trying to be very clear about that, because for those folks who are today following the law by getting a concealed carry permit, and the nature of a concealed carry permit is that no one knows you're carrying, which is the privacy aspect, the public safety aspect, not, not being threatening aspect, that's really just fine for those people.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-858", "start": 5709.871, "end": 5711.654, "text": "And the sheriff has a record of all those folks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-859", "start": 5712.762, "end": 5725.877, "text": "This, to me, given the number of enforcements that our security agents in this building have noted have occurred in the last 5 years, and I think it was 5 was the number, is a solution in search of a problem.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-860", "start": 5727.451, "end": 5733.138, "text": "And I wanted to work through a way in which we could make this a solution in search of making a better something.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-861", "start": 5733.395, "end": 5735.409, "text": "And yet we haven't been there, and I haven't seen the work come.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-862", "start": 5735.667, "end": 5741.114, "text": "I haven't seen the, the public service safety service area step up in a responsible manner on this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-863", "start": 5741.162, "end": 5741.855, "text": "So I'm pretty disappointed.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-864", "start": 5743.479, "end": 5763.37, "text": "I think that the, the cascading bad decisions comment is one of those where you say, does a guy who looks like me get enforced against more often or less often than a person who doesn't look like me?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-865", "start": 5763.693, "end": 5769.302, "text": "And I think that this ordinance is wading deeply into that and not in a great manner.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-866", "start": 5769.613, "end": 5772.432, "text": "And so I'm thinking about that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-867", "start": 5772.545, "end": 5774.203, "text": "And SOPs are not laws.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-868", "start": 5774.558, "end": 5778.824, "text": "SOPs are internal functions that do not have to be followed by the letter of the law.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-869", "start": 5779.226, "end": 5790.766, "text": "And so I don't want to lean on the health of this ordinance is on the following of an SOP, because the SOP is a standard operating procedure.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-870", "start": 5791.008, "end": 5803.29, "text": "And so for me, that, to my colleagues, is where my concern relates, is that we've been given some buffering areas where we think this will help make it better or do this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-871", "start": 5803.514, "end": 5804.508, "text": "And I see that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-872", "start": 5804.572, "end": 5805.709, "text": "I see the spirit there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-873", "start": 5806.495, "end": 5823.465, "text": "But to create a new class of activity that is today legal and safe and not something that the city is dealing with in a meaningful way of like, we have this problem we must address, I am confounded.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-874", "start": 5823.513, "end": 5823.945, "text": "I'm confused.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-875", "start": 5825.179, "end": 5825.904, "text": "I don't even have the right word.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-876", "start": 5825.985, "end": 5829.014, "text": "I'm confused about why this has been such a huge effort.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-877", "start": 5829.175, "end": 5832.386, "text": "And I, and again, I put this in somewhat of a pet project category.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-878", "start": 5835.31, "end": 5837.555, "text": "And that's too bad.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-879", "start": 5838.056, "end": 5844.596, "text": "And so I, I would love to, to frankly see some of this conversation.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-880", "start": 5844.708, "end": 5849.554, "text": "I do think that a tabling of this for a much later date and stop bringing it back, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-881", "start": 5849.619, "end": 5850.754, "text": "This has been too much.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-882", "start": 5851.307, "end": 5853.387, "text": "Bringing it back every couple weeks with no substantive difference.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-883", "start": 5853.436, "end": 5853.744, "text": "Councilor Sameer Kanal.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-884", "start": 5855.368, "end": 5859.662, "text": "That we take a look at a different time on this if people are really gung-ho about it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-885", "start": 5860.432, "end": 5868.075, "text": "But passing something that I believe will be enforced differently against different people based on the circumstances, something I have a lot of caution here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-886", "start": 5868.284, "end": 5870.094, "text": "And but I do want to hear the rest of the conversation.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-887", "start": 5870.143, "end": 5873.219, "text": "I know that, you know, Councilor Kanal and others and I, we've had these conversations.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-888", "start": 5873.315, "end": 5874.453, "text": "I want to see where this goes today.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-889", "start": 5875.415, "end": 5879.789, "text": "But I'm pretty irritated with a 2-week-old public records request on this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-890", "start": 5879.886, "end": 5883.844, "text": "To try and get a sense of where this all came from and what it's about was unfulfilled.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-891", "start": 5883.926, "end": 5884.661, "text": "So I'll stop there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-892", "start": 5886.851, "end": 5887.558, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-893", "start": 5889.263, "end": 5889.971, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-894", "start": 5890.486, "end": 5892.947, "text": "Yeah, I guess I have some process questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-895", "start": 5894.398, "end": 5899.653, "text": "So, and I'm not trying to like say anybody did anything wrong backwards looking here necessarily.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-896", "start": 5899.701, "end": 5922.253, "text": "I'm trying to understand, you know, I think the intention was that a conversation would occur between a member of council who's not part of this, Council President, um, and up to 2 of us because we have a committee quorum issue if it was more than that, and that that would yield some sort of substantive difference.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-897", "start": 5922.625, "end": 5924.773, "text": "Can someone explain what exactly happened there?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-898", "start": 5925.048, "end": 5929.07, "text": "Because I, I think, uh, like, I don't know the, the specific conversation that happened.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-899", "start": 5929.167, "end": 5930.12, "text": "I was not one of the 2.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-900", "start": 5930.863, "end": 5935.242, "text": "Um, if any state legislators are listening to this, this, this is absurd.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-901", "start": 5935.847, "end": 5942.637, "text": "So, you know, track that for the public meetings law piece, but can we, can we get a better understanding of, of what exactly happened?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-902", "start": 5942.685, "end": 5944.424, "text": "I don't know who was involved in, in this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-903", "start": 5947.976, "end": 5955.672, "text": "Um, actually, I mean, I thought that originally I'd asked for the administration to, if possible, meet with individual councilors.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-904", "start": 5956.009, "end": 5958.929, "text": "Um, and I don't know how it actually played out.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-905", "start": 5958.993, "end": 5960.354, "text": "I wasn't part of one of those meetings.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-906", "start": 5960.613, "end": 5964.994, "text": "Uh, City Administrator, can you explain to me Who met with who at what times?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-907", "start": 5967.67, "end": 5968.98, "text": "I don't have the actual dates.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-908", "start": 5969.142, "end": 5970.307, "text": "I have to rely on staff.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-909", "start": 5970.372, "end": 5979.113, "text": "They actually met with the councilors to kind of walk through how those individual meetings went, uh, with councilors, uh, as it relates to the actual time.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-910", "start": 5979.177, "end": 5981.093, "text": "But I know those meetings did take place.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-911", "start": 5981.431, "end": 5987.776, "text": "I know Councilor Zimmerman kind of referenced kind of how that meeting took place, but I'd have to rely on staff.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-912", "start": 5988.918, "end": 5990.459, "text": "Is staff here to elaborate?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-913", "start": 5991.326, "end": 5997.891, "text": "Trying to find the date point.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-914", "start": 5998.164, "end": 5998.356, "text": "I'm—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-915", "start": 5998.356, "end": 6003.797, "text": "I don't necessarily need the exact dates, but just to understand that if everybody got— like, what was the—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-916", "start": 6003.926, "end": 6004.054, "text": "How—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-917", "start": 6004.247, "end": 6004.68, "text": "Who got one?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-918", "start": 6004.728, "end": 6005.804, "text": "What was the idea behind it?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-919", "start": 6005.852, "end": 6006.494, "text": "What was the intent?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-920", "start": 6006.671, "end": 6007.602, "text": "Kind of was the question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-921", "start": 6007.874, "end": 6012.016, "text": "Yeah, so Elizabeth Perez, for the record, um, Enterprise Services Director for Public Safety.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-922", "start": 6012.674, "end": 6024.578, "text": "Um, we met a few weeks ago with, um, Councilor Zimmerman, Councilor Murillo, uh, uh, Councilor Smith's staff, um, as well as Council President staff.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-923", "start": 6024.659, "end": 6030.498, "text": "I think Eben was there as well, uh, to walk through the, uh, documents, the ordinance.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-924", "start": 6030.722, "end": 6040.186, "text": "Uh, PPB was there, um, DC Hughes, uh, as well as Manny Guerra from security and the PSSA staff.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-925", "start": 6040.315, "end": 6043.635, "text": "So me and, uh, Bree, as well as the city attorney.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-926", "start": 6045.066, "end": 6050.122, "text": "So that was the conversation where we had where I believe Councilor Zimmerman was still unsatisfied with the answers.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-927", "start": 6052.481, "end": 6052.723, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-928", "start": 6053.305, "end": 6057.114, "text": "Okay, so Councilor Novick and I, no briefings, but 3.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-929", "start": 6057.179, "end": 6063.361, "text": "Okay, so I guess first, thanks for being here, Director Perez, and thanks everyone for the, the work that you've been doing on this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-930", "start": 6063.702, "end": 6078.545, "text": "Um, I think I'm a little confused, and this is maybe less a question for, um, for staff, but maybe, um, but But was the intention here that we could have an iterative process of figuring out a method of solving some of the underlying concerns?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-931", "start": 6078.901, "end": 6080.565, "text": "Was that the sort of purpose behind these?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-932", "start": 6082.623, "end": 6085.861, "text": "I don't— yes, that was the purpose.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-933", "start": 6086.409, "end": 6088.116, "text": "I don't know that we reached that.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-934", "start": 6088.181, "end": 6089.502, "text": "I mean, clearly we did not reach that.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-935", "start": 6090.43, "end": 6098.292, "text": "And correctly, Councilor, I think that I, at least as one of the people suggesting this, because I wanted to spend less time, didn't want to keep on bringing this back to committees.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-936", "start": 6098.356, "end": 6102.584, "text": "I was hoping that people would have Okay.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-937", "start": 6103.363, "end": 6109.12, "text": "Councilor Kanal, I think that was the spirit of the chair's direction some months ago.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-938", "start": 6109.55, "end": 6109.76, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-939", "start": 6109.905, "end": 6113.284, "text": "What occurred the 31st was a, here's our final product.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-940", "start": 6113.786, "end": 6116.874, "text": "That is the first meeting that has occurred that I was invited to.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-941", "start": 6117.97, "end": 6121.213, "text": "So the months ago guidance, I think, was in good spirit, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-942", "start": 6122.504, "end": 6124.909, "text": "Everything since then, I would disagree with that it was good spirit.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-943", "start": 6125.512, "end": 6145.098, "text": "Okay, and so I think, um, would it be fair, Council President, then to ask that was this amendment that we just approved designed to address what was raised there, or was it sort of something that we were— something unrelated and we're still trying to address what was raised by, uh, councilors on this committee in the, in the briefing?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-944", "start": 6145.547, "end": 6176.922, "text": "And I'm not trying to like, you know, expose the sausage-making process too much here, um, but trying to, to understand if there's still more work to do I can say that it was written specifically to address concerns both, uh, that were brought up in the meeting and also additional ones that, uh, when Mike Porter took over from, uh, City Attorney Linda Law, who retired, uh, identified a couple of additional, um, ways to strengthen this.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-945", "start": 6176.971, "end": 6187.13, "text": "So in the briefing, it was discussed the extent to which Okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-946", "start": 6187.13, "end": 6199.89, "text": "I think there's, there's still underlying things to understand, and I understand this is, for a lot of folks who may be listening, this is a simple, are guns bad or not kind of vote, and I don't think that's actually what this policy is.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-947", "start": 6200.47, "end": 6208.15, "text": "It's a— there, there's a lot of nuance to this in a specific sense in terms of differential enforcement, as, as Councilor Zimmerman brought up, but also what the city is doing to address gun violence.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-948", "start": 6208.186, "end": 6210.225, "text": "What are the guardrails?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-949", "start": 6210.916, "end": 6217.402, "text": "City of Lee, what are the— you mentioned in other cities you've worked in that this is something we've already resolved.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-950", "start": 6217.82, "end": 6218.318, "text": "Are the rules—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-951", "start": 6218.398, "end": 6219.811, "text": "Sorry, I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-952", "start": 6219.988, "end": 6229.075, "text": "I just had a very brief thing to say to that specifically was like the point I missed to say was that the state law is incredibly inflexible and is incredibly narrow.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-953", "start": 6229.557, "end": 6243.379, "text": "And so to address some of the underlying concerns that were brought up by this body was simply not possible because it is fundamentally We have very few, very little flexibility in terms of what the underlying solutions may be.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-954", "start": 6243.683, "end": 6249.269, "text": "And so that is an important component of what the amendment that you all just adopted was.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-955", "start": 6250.328, "end": 6251.323, "text": "Then that's fair.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-956", "start": 6251.387, "end": 6254.115, "text": "And like I said, I think that the amendment itself helped.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-957", "start": 6254.26, "end": 6260.455, "text": "I just don't know that it addressed the underlying issues that have been raised, some of which I share and some of which I don't.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-958", "start": 6260.535, "end": 6266.52, "text": "But yeah, Cully, do you Can you speak to what the rule is in the other cities you've worked in?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-959", "start": 6266.873, "end": 6270.965, "text": "Like, what is the— in terms of what do we want to see, not necessarily, you know, you know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-960", "start": 6271.992, "end": 6279.501, "text": "I'll use Dallas because it's a very good comparison to size and scope and kind of the meeting frequency that we see here in Portland.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-961", "start": 6279.55, "end": 6292.57, "text": "In general, you cannot bring any firearms into any Dallas City Hall or chambers during a government proceeding or court proceeding in a city building because Dallas also has Municipal courts as well.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-962", "start": 6293.021, "end": 6300.571, "text": "And that's typical, just the general rule of law as it relates to bringing firearms into City Hall.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-963", "start": 6301.928, "end": 6303.368, "text": "Now, how is that functioning?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-964", "start": 6305.751, "end": 6317.359, "text": "The City of Dallas has its own equipment and building services and security that is in-house, city employees, not contracted out, that administer that code.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-965", "start": 6317.408, "end": 6321.47, "text": "So there's metal detectors As you enter City Hall.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-966", "start": 6321.598, "end": 6328.504, "text": "So if it goes off, you have a concealed, they tell you you cannot bring that gun inside the city facility.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-967", "start": 6328.632, "end": 6332.39, "text": "Now, what they do with the gun after that, we don't know.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-968", "start": 6332.663, "end": 6345.639, "text": "And that is not something that is policed from that standpoint, but it is managed through having metal detectors, 2 sets of metal detectors, one as you enter into building and one as you enter the council chambers.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-969", "start": 6347.635, "end": 6349.024, "text": "Okay, I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-970", "start": 6349.089, "end": 6350.058, "text": "Then that's Texas.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-971", "start": 6350.3, "end": 6351.011, "text": "It's Texas.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-972", "start": 6351.431, "end": 6353.563, "text": "I mean, you get guns in like Happy Meals there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-973", "start": 6353.709, "end": 6356.147, "text": "Like, it's, it's, uh, I wouldn't say all that now.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-974", "start": 6357.419, "end": 6360.093, "text": "So, uh, that, that's interesting.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-975", "start": 6360.367, "end": 6363.314, "text": "Um, I appreciate that clarification.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-976", "start": 6363.83, "end": 6366.857, "text": "I, I'll let the conversation proceed, but I, I appreciate this.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-977", "start": 6366.922, "end": 6367.165, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-978", "start": 6371.469, "end": 6382.362, "text": "Yeah, I put myself in the queue just to say that I am not sure if there's any version of this that could address everybody's concerns.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-979", "start": 6383.134, "end": 6400.059, "text": "So, I mean, from my perspective, I thought that it was important to make it clear, I mean, to have it brought out clearly that nobody's going to be subject to a felony charge and that there is going to be a process and referral to law enforcement would be the last resort.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-980", "start": 6400.693, "end": 6405.606, "text": "And as to the discretion issue, there's always going to be concerns about discretion in enforcing any law.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-981", "start": 6406.136, "end": 6413.602, "text": "And I'm not sure that we can, you know, ever erase those concerns other than, you know, we just need— we should be keeping an eye on it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-982", "start": 6414.887, "end": 6420.282, "text": "So that's in part response to Councilor Zimmerman's suggestion that we table this for a future date.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-983", "start": 6420.603, "end": 6425.725, "text": "I just don't know that there's any further discussion that's going to bring any more clarity.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-984", "start": 6431.057, "end": 6434.092, "text": "I'd like to move to table this discussion with no date specified.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-985", "start": 6439.75, "end": 6440.496, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman moves.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-986", "start": 6440.944, "end": 6441.657, "text": "Do I hear a second?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-987", "start": 6444.074, "end": 6444.332, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-988", "start": 6446.896, "end": 6448.895, "text": "Can't remember, is there discussion of a motion to table?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-989", "start": 6452.74, "end": 6453.308, "text": "Uh, no.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-990", "start": 6453.959, "end": 6456.998, "text": "Okay, in that case, can I ask a question?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-991", "start": 6457.778, "end": 6458.786, "text": "Councilor Kanal has a question.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-992", "start": 6459.34, "end": 6466.223, "text": "Yeah, so would that be a motion to postpone indefinitely without, without a date?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-993", "start": 6466.303, "end": 6470.379, "text": "Yes, like if it's ready to come back at a future time, sure, but I don't want to set a date today.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-994", "start": 6470.443, "end": 6471.98, "text": "I think that's gotten us in a bad rhythm.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-995", "start": 6472.481, "end": 6472.999, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-996", "start": 6477.352, "end": 6482.793, "text": "In that case, could the clerk call the roll on the, on that motion to table or whatever we're calling it?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-997", "start": 6484.865, "end": 6485.787, "text": "Yes, just one moment.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-998", "start": 6486.402, "end": 6493.292, "text": "Uh, okay, so, uh, on the motion to table—.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-999", "start": 6493.615, "end": 6496.396, "text": "Is it a motion to table or to postpone indefinitely?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1000", "start": 6496.493, "end": 6497.738, "text": "They're just very, very different.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1001", "start": 6497.803, "end": 6502.799, "text": "Yeah, I'm really trying to understand how would this item come, come back if it were to come back?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1002", "start": 6502.961, "end": 6505.301, "text": "Would it be That we have to vote to do it?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1003", "start": 6505.366, "end": 6510.241, "text": "Would it be that the chair can put it on an agenda if and when it's ready but is not obligated to do so?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1004", "start": 6510.337, "end": 6513.961, "text": "What's the— and partially, what's the specific vote we're taking?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1005", "start": 6514.025, "end": 6514.907, "text": "Partially, what's the intent?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1006", "start": 6515.373, "end": 6515.645, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1007", "start": 6515.725, "end": 6518.067, "text": "I have to ask the clerk to elaborate on that.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1008", "start": 6518.58, "end": 6518.788, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1009", "start": 6518.997, "end": 6530.516, "text": "If the item is tabled as the motion was originally made, then the committee has to bring it back at the following meeting or it is basically indefinitely Done.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1010", "start": 6530.775, "end": 6531.067, "text": "It's gone.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1011", "start": 6531.909, "end": 6543.407, "text": "Um, if the motion is to postpone indefinitely, then it can be brought back either by the chair or by, um, members of the committee making a motion.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1012", "start": 6545.552, "end": 6550.192, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman, was your intention to have it be the second, postpone indefinitely, or to table?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1013", "start": 6553.647, "end": 6559.741, "text": "I think the postpone indefinitely allows us more flexibility for when I'll say If it becomes ready at a future date.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1014", "start": 6560.686, "end": 6565.141, "text": "But it doesn't mean that, again, we're back here doing it all over again by, you know, your discretion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1015", "start": 6565.669, "end": 6569.227, "text": "It sounds like the tabling means either it's next week or it's dead.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1016", "start": 6569.9, "end": 6571.454, "text": "And I think that wasn't my intention.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1017", "start": 6572.063, "end": 6574.915, "text": "My intention is bring full products that are ready.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1018", "start": 6576.005, "end": 6578.376, "text": "Okay, in that case, I'll ask the clerk.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1019", "start": 6579.113, "end": 6584.481, "text": "The councilor having stated his intention, can we treat the motion as a motion to postpone indefinitely?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1020", "start": 6584.883, "end": 6586.783, "text": "And go ahead and vote on it, or do we have to remake the motion?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1021", "start": 6587.443, "end": 6595.32, "text": "Uh, it would be easiest if Councilor Zimmerman would, uh, withdraw, withdraw his motion and make a new motion.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1022", "start": 6595.513, "end": 6597.045, "text": "That would make life easier for me.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1023", "start": 6597.271, "end": 6597.674, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1024", "start": 6597.916, "end": 6600.641, "text": "Definitely kills it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1025", "start": 6602.71, "end": 6606.345, "text": "Okay, yep, sorry, we're getting conflicting information here.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1026", "start": 6608.457, "end": 6613.213, "text": "Um, motion to postpone Indefinitely kills the item?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1027", "start": 6613.471, "end": 6613.697, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1028", "start": 6614.519, "end": 6616.324, "text": "Okay, so Sumner's tabling.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1029", "start": 6617.372, "end": 6620.064, "text": "So tabling, if it's—.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1030", "start": 6620.342, "end": 6621.405, "text": "Oh yeah, I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1031", "start": 6624.86, "end": 6626.93, "text": "Good morning, Beth Woodard, City Attorney's Office.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1032", "start": 6628.192, "end": 6631.492, "text": "A motion to postpone indefinitely will kill the item.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1033", "start": 6632.414, "end": 6636.918, "text": "If you would like to lay it on the table, then you will just need a motion later to pick it up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1034", "start": 6638.342, "end": 6647.751, "text": "So you can do— if there's no time certain, you can do a motion to lay it on the table, and then when you're ready, you'll just need another motion to take it off the table.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1035", "start": 6647.8, "end": 6651.444, "text": "I'm going to keep my original motion because that more reflects my intent here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1036", "start": 6651.637, "end": 6651.894, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1037", "start": 6652.279, "end": 6653.644, "text": "Thank you for the clarification.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1038", "start": 6653.724, "end": 6654.158, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1039", "start": 6655.491, "end": 6661.207, "text": "Um, okay, can we proceed to, uh, can the clerk call the roll on the motion to table or lay on the table?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1040", "start": 6665.733, "end": 6670.18, "text": "Okay, motion to lay it on the table.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1041", "start": 6671.62, "end": 6671.942, "text": "Kanal?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1042", "start": 6674.461, "end": 6674.623, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1043", "start": 6675.688, "end": 6676.189, "text": "Morillo?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1044", "start": 6676.883, "end": 6677.045, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1045", "start": 6678.191, "end": 6678.563, "text": "Zimmerman?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1046", "start": 6678.982, "end": 6678.999, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1047", "start": 6680.452, "end": 6680.614, "text": "Smith?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1048", "start": 6680.921, "end": 6680.969, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1049", "start": 6681.746, "end": 6682.15, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1050", "start": 6682.862, "end": 6683.104, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1051", "start": 6684.738, "end": 6689.655, "text": "With 3 ayes and 2 nays, the motion to lay the item on the table has been approved.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1052", "start": 6691.806, "end": 6692.465, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1053", "start": 6692.674, "end": 6700.089, "text": "Um, and now, uh, let's have a, a 13-minute break before moving on to the next item.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1054", "start": 6701.378, "end": 6703.238, "text": "We reconvene at 11:30.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1055", "start": 7618.129, "end": 7624.17, "text": "I'm reluctant to start a brand new substantive discussion without everybody here, so I'm going to give Councilor Carl another minute, but then we'll start.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1056", "start": 7636.143, "end": 7642.598, "text": "All right, committee is back in session.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1057", "start": 7642.968, "end": 7644.175, "text": "Uh, could the clerk read the next item?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1058", "start": 7646.106, "end": 7662.119, "text": "Item number 4, document number 2026-332, amend prohibited conduct code To update ejections and exclusions for drug possession, weapons possession, and abuse in parks.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1059", "start": 7662.392, "end": 7665.378, "text": "Amend Code Chapter 20.12.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1060", "start": 7666.726, "end": 7667.77, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1061", "start": 7668.332, "end": 7670.098, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman and staff, take it away.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1062", "start": 7670.579, "end": 7671.077, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1063", "start": 7671.302, "end": 7671.976, "text": "Thanks to the colleagues.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1064", "start": 7672.024, "end": 7679.907, "text": "I'm bringing forward this ordinance and this proposal for discussion with you all today and interested in your process and thoughts here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1065", "start": 7680.534, "end": 7684.84, "text": "If we could, I've got my staff in front as well, but I'm going to talk through our presentation first.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1066", "start": 7684.888, "end": 7685.852, "text": "I'll start with the problem.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1067", "start": 7686.141, "end": 7692.455, "text": "There's a continued frustration among Portlanders with the use of dangerous drugs and the weapons that we see in parks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1068", "start": 7693.532, "end": 7703.268, "text": "And these kind of controlled substances like fentanyl and heroin, we know they're very addictive, we know they're very toxic, can result, of course, in behavior problems in our parks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1069", "start": 7703.991, "end": 7706.772, "text": "I think that many of us have probably seen the Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1070", "start": 7706.95, "end": 7716.485, "text": "We've seen examples, or we've seen ourselves, or we've talked to neighbors who are seeing the paraphernalia that is left in parks when drugs become the thing you do in parks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1071", "start": 7717.532, "end": 7720.947, "text": "And we often hear about what are the tools that we have to help with this.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1072", "start": 7721.559, "end": 7726.67, "text": "And so from that perspective, we're bringing forward this safe park ordinance.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1073", "start": 7728.838, "end": 7744.958, "text": "I want to talk about just a little bit of terms of what tools do law enforcement today have When they face somebody in one of our parks who's being violent or has— is using illicit drugs in the park, what exists today?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1074", "start": 7745.424, "end": 7753.362, "text": "So of course, they can issue a warning to an individual, they can eject that individual from the park, and they can exclude the individual from the park for a set number of days.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1075", "start": 7754.522, "end": 7761.995, "text": "And then of course, because a lot of this is also illegal activity, they always do have the ability to arrest that individual or cite them.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1076", "start": 7762.982, "end": 7764.716, "text": "And more of the judicial side.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1077", "start": 7765.07, "end": 7772.953, "text": "I want to be clear, what we're talking about when we say exclusions is more of an administrative side of things than it is a judicial side, and that's an important piece here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1078", "start": 7773.515, "end": 7780.099, "text": "If we go to the next slide, the goals today, it really is about making our parks safer for every Portlander, every visitor.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1079", "start": 7780.709, "end": 7802.339, "text": "It's also to refine and give some of our public safety folks, including our park rangers, some tools To kind of keep illegal and dangerous behavior out of our parks, and that when we actually enforce against such things, that we have the ability to improve the situation not just in that moment, but in the days to come.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1080", "start": 7803.18, "end": 7814.726, "text": "To update the process for how park exclusions are issued and to protect the reputation and continued enjoyment of one of, I think, Portland's greatest assets, which are our parks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1081", "start": 7817.09, "end": 7817.92, "text": "So next slide there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1082", "start": 7821.57, "end": 7828.239, "text": "Okay, so as it currently sits, we have some exclusion parameters and, and certain number of days.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1083", "start": 7828.898, "end": 7837.122, "text": "What this ordinance does is that it increases the minimum length of exclusions for elevated violations from 60 days to 90 days.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1084", "start": 7837.317, "end": 7842.702, "text": "And so I want to be clear, this is not making any Activity and any new activity illegal.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1085", "start": 7842.766, "end": 7845.057, "text": "This is not making any old activity illegal.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1086", "start": 7845.153, "end": 7849.384, "text": "This is just saying what's on the books of extending from 60 to 90.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1087", "start": 7849.721, "end": 7854.448, "text": "So that includes violent crimes, sexual crimes, types of crimes that are under ORS 163.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1088", "start": 7854.544, "end": 7861.483, "text": "Of course, rape, assault, murder, stalking, child abuse, elder abuse, abuse of animals, mental illness, disability.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1089", "start": 7861.579, "end": 7862.957, "text": "I'm sorry, I said it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1090", "start": 7863.438, "end": 7864.047, "text": "I said animals.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1091", "start": 7864.175, "end": 7867.401, "text": "I'm sorry, I meant I'm reading too many things here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1092", "start": 7867.835, "end": 7878.056, "text": "Intimidation, property damage to park at least $1,000, abuse of adults with mental illness and developmental disabilities, and other types of abuse.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1093", "start": 7882.469, "end": 7891.618, "text": "What we're proposing here is also increasing the minimum length of exclusions from 30 days to 90 days for drug possession, sale, and transportation.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1094", "start": 7892.05, "end": 7895.668, "text": "Transportation, solicitation, or distribution, and weapons possession.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1095", "start": 7896.93, "end": 7905.105, "text": "So what is currently a 30-day exclusion in those groups of crimes that I just described, moving those to 90, which is similar to the last group.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1096", "start": 7907.247, "end": 7918.553, "text": "Drug possession, sale, transportation, solicitation, or distribution— these are drugs that are covered, include toxic and dangerous substances like fentanyl, heroin, methamphetamines as defined by ORS That's $475.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1097", "start": 7919.613, "end": 7923.241, "text": "We're also adding counterfeit substances, which is a new list for me.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1098", "start": 7923.723, "end": 7930.322, "text": "That, that's just a definition to get around some of what's happening in the drug market for people creating new things and, and making different claims.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1099", "start": 7930.387, "end": 7941.562, "text": "But really what it's getting at is it's controlled substances or anything in that container that's purposely made to imitate a manufacturer or distributor other than, uh, who can legally manufacture or distribute.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1100", "start": 7941.723, "end": 7946.327, "text": "An example of that would be someone made a fake label for a prescription drug like oxycodone.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1101", "start": 7946.696, "end": 7955.468, "text": "I'll put this in the category of nuances that we were asked to include because we're seeing that come up as a way people try to squirrel out of accountability.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1102", "start": 7956.367, "end": 7963.006, "text": "I want to be really clear that this does not include legally owned or purchased marijuana, legally owned or purchased prescriptions.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1103", "start": 7963.359, "end": 7966.951, "text": "We're really talking about the illicit hardcore drugs right now.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1104", "start": 7967.609, "end": 7968.379, "text": "Weapons possession.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1105", "start": 7968.475, "end": 7973.191, "text": "This includes but is not limited to any firearm, pellet gun, spring-loaded weapons, Stun gun.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1106", "start": 7973.304, "end": 7974.113, "text": "Stun gun, et cetera.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1107", "start": 7974.744, "end": 7978.042, "text": "I have a picture here of a machete.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1108", "start": 7978.237, "end": 7988.163, "text": "I was at a neighborhood event one time where a police officer was nearby and took a machete off of a patron in the park, and that was the end of the interaction, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1109", "start": 7988.421, "end": 7990.339, "text": "Take the machete, but there's nothing else.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1110", "start": 7990.419, "end": 7992.294, "text": "There's no there there after the fact.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1111", "start": 7993.313, "end": 7997.146, "text": "And I want to be clear that this does not include legally carried concealed weapons.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1112", "start": 7998.732, "end": 8000.368, "text": "Just to be consistent to my colleagues.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1113", "start": 8000.416, "end": 8002.068, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1114", "start": 8002.726, "end": 8003.496, "text": "Going on to the next slide.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1115", "start": 8003.544, "end": 8004.009, "text": "There we go.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1116", "start": 8005.148, "end": 8022.279, "text": "What you see here is 3 different levels or 3 versions of offenses, a tiered system, which does exist already, but this is a bit of a refine here, a tiered system that allows for the policy to focus on chronic offenders of elevated violations who create the greatest threat and disruption.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1117", "start": 8022.487, "end": 8040.13, "text": "So mostly what we're talking about is that first violation of the things the second offense within a 3-year period, that, that person would be excluded from all parks within that park service zone for 180 days.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1118", "start": 8040.13, "end": 8046.8, "text": "And the third offense in 3 years is a person excluded from all parks in the city for 365 days.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1119", "start": 8047.53, "end": 8050.05, "text": "So not only do we go longer, but we also expand.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1120", "start": 8051.43, "end": 8054.81, "text": "If a person continues to violate within a 3-year period, we expand the exclusion zone to include all parks in the city.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1121", "start": 8054.81, "end": 8054.85, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1122", "start": 8055.378, "end": 8058.802, "text": "Not just the park from which it occurred, but to the broader sense of parks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1123", "start": 8058.948, "end": 8060.409, "text": "And so we see this map here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1124", "start": 8060.879, "end": 8067.922, "text": "When I talk about park service zones, this is, I think, a helpful description of what we're talking about.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1125", "start": 8070.285, "end": 8071.866, "text": "Actually, go back just a bit, please.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1126", "start": 8072.948, "end": 8078.128, "text": "I want to highlight this given the nature of how things go on today.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1127", "start": 8078.257, "end": 8080.898, "text": "If you interact with a person yeah.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1128", "start": 8081.186, "end": 8092.069, "text": "At a park and we disrupt a behavior, the goal isn't that they just stop doing it at that one park or leave that one park and then walk to the next one and then have no accountability.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1129", "start": 8092.726, "end": 8094.762, "text": "But we want to give them the opportunity to do the right thing.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1130", "start": 8094.826, "end": 8107.407, "text": "But if they continue to violate a second and third time, you do see that we can expand and say the parks in this area— clearly you're using this area as kind of home base for, for bad behavior, so we want to pull that away.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1131", "start": 8107.487, "end": 8113.052, "text": "But that doesn't come in until you're into your second or third okay, moving into the next piece.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1132", "start": 8113.356, "end": 8116.5, "text": "I wanna just clarify where exclusions apply.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1133", "start": 8117.431, "end": 8125.275, "text": "This includes the park and city property or right-of-way, which is adjacent to the park, including walkways, pathways, sidewalks, and streets.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1134", "start": 8125.932, "end": 8132.285, "text": "I think of this as areas from which that person and their behavior still has impact upon the park.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1135", "start": 8132.75, "end": 8137.289, "text": "And so just stepping off the grass into the sidewalk may not have a meaningful change.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1136", "start": 8137.562, "end": 8139.2, "text": "And so that's what we're seeing here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1137", "start": 8139.826, "end": 8143.599, "text": "It creates an exemption, of course, for any person who's just passing through the area.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1138", "start": 8144.145, "end": 8157.745, "text": "If you're walking through, going to work, going to school, whatever that is, that this does not interrupt that and make— it just means that the behavior in which you were excluded for, it means you cannot just hang out in the park in a recreational way in which we, I think we all understand.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1139", "start": 8157.794, "end": 8160.892, "text": "But the passing through is remained protected for all individuals.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1140", "start": 8162.032, "end": 8162.659, "text": "Next slide, please.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1141", "start": 8164.12, "end": 8168.12, "text": "This encourages a bit more of a consistent approach to exclusions.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1142", "start": 8168.538, "end": 8182.175, "text": "If an authorized park officer— so that's PPB and our park rangers— engages with someone who's engaged in prohibited activity and the officer does not issue an exclusion, then we're looking to have them document why they did not issue an exclusion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1143", "start": 8182.833, "end": 8192.742, "text": "I think that this helps us ensure that the officers are educated on the available tools, encourages a more consistent consistent approach and gathers data on effectiveness and impact of a policy change.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1144", "start": 8193.288, "end": 8201.509, "text": "Portland Police Bureau and Portland Parks and Recreation would establish a process to document that information so that it would not be too burdensome.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1145", "start": 8201.557, "end": 8202.441, "text": "That's not our goal here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1146", "start": 8203.003, "end": 8208.59, "text": "But Safe Parks does not require and it does not mandate any such exclusions.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1147", "start": 8208.767, "end": 8209.939, "text": "I want to be really clear about that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1148", "start": 8210.132, "end": 8216.933, "text": "Officers retain the discretion that they have today To make the decision on the factors on the ground.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1149", "start": 8217.766, "end": 8225.827, "text": "Each park is different, each group of people are different, these violations are different, and we're not changing anything with their current today practices.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1150", "start": 8227.125, "end": 8235.025, "text": "Going to the next slide, this does close a loophole that I believe is one of the reasons that we're not seen as effective of exclusionary use.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1151", "start": 8235.297, "end": 8246.449, "text": "So right now, if someone appeals an exclusion to the city's hearings officer, That exclusion is automatically stayed by the city's hearing officer until the appeal is decided.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1152", "start": 8247.47, "end": 8252.658, "text": "The automatic stay of an exclusion lets the offender return immediately to the park from which they were excluded.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1153", "start": 8254.55, "end": 8256.847, "text": "I'm identifying that as one of the bigger concerns.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1154", "start": 8258.03, "end": 8262.695, "text": "The Safe Park Ordinance eliminates the automatic staying of a parked exclusion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1155", "start": 8263.596, "end": 8269.669, "text": "The city's hearing officer can still stay a decision on a case-by-case basis, but it goes through that process.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1156", "start": 8269.782, "end": 8274.472, "text": "There's no automatic stay just because an appeal was filed.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1157", "start": 8274.953, "end": 8280.206, "text": "Safe Parks does not eliminate the ability to stay executions— exclusions.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1158", "start": 8280.398, "end": 8284.879, "text": "The city hearings officer can still stay an exclusion through the appeals process.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1159", "start": 8284.96, "end": 8295.646, "text": "The Safe Parks does not eliminate or create obstacles to file an appeal, and a person who is excluded from a park can still appeal the decision and get a second review.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1160", "start": 8302.2, "end": 8310.166, "text": "I also think that this gives our City Council some more oversight of an exclusion process that is not largely something we see much of now.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1161", "start": 8310.441, "end": 8315.223, "text": "It requires that PPB and PPNR report to Council one year after the enactment.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1162", "start": 8316.111, "end": 8322.443, "text": "The report allows Council to track implementation and provide transparency and provides transparency on the process.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1163", "start": 8322.491, "end": 8338.85, "text": "The report will outline the number of exclusions, locations, which violations triggered, the process for which officers used to document, a summary of the reasons why exclusions perhaps were not issued, and information on how officers enforce a violation of the exclusion order.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1164", "start": 8340.26, "end": 8357.999, "text": "So what we're really talking about here is there is criminal activity that an officer may what we're saying is, in a lot of those cases, we'd like them to be considering the other tool, which is a park exclusion, at the same time.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1165", "start": 8358.528, "end": 8365.755, "text": "But the other side of this is that exclusions can be used without the citation for criminal, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1166", "start": 8365.819, "end": 8372.245, "text": "This is this balance that folks have to use, and I think that it's one of the tools that offers a, a non-judicial option to folks who are in need of that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1167", "start": 8372.309, "end": 8384.943, "text": "Councilor Sameer Kanal, To counter some behavior, and it says that if you're— if you think it's serious enough that you're using, using the legal process, then why are you not also taking a look at the exclusion?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1168", "start": 8385.071, "end": 8389.192, "text": "So just kind of trying to pair those up a little bit better than I think we currently are in practice.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1169", "start": 8390.122, "end": 8398.252, "text": "So in summary, with the next slide here, this sets a 90-day minimum exclusion for elevated violations, including drug and weapons offenses.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1170", "start": 8398.781, "end": 8404.105, "text": "It increases the escalating impact of exclusions for repeated elevated violations.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1171", "start": 8404.442, "end": 8410.71, "text": "It clarifies where exclusions apply, ensuring safety and usability of adjacent city property and right-of-way.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1172", "start": 8411.255, "end": 8444.334, "text": "It encourages consistent approach to exclusions, requiring documentation when an exclusion is not issued, closes a loophole that lets offenders return quickly to parks, eliminating the automatic stays for appeals, and gives council more oversight of the So I wanted to bring this forward to the body for consideration, given that I think in all of our districts we've encountered some level of frustration over dealing with a problem in the park.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1173", "start": 8444.575, "end": 8447.315, "text": "And that takes form in different parts of each district.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1174", "start": 8448.188, "end": 8453.639, "text": "But I do think that we have an exclusion process in the city that can be used more effectively.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1175", "start": 8453.687, "end": 8455.014, "text": "I also believe that it is a tool that we can use to help our parks.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1176", "start": 8455.111, "end": 8455.272, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1177", "start": 8455.5, "end": 8470.01, "text": "Tool that is a step down from the more legal enforcement of certain things and could have an impact in a way of sending a message and setting a new behavioral change without including judicial.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1178", "start": 8470.074, "end": 8483.131, "text": "But at the same time, if we're going to be doing the judicial, that we make sure we're also taking care of the park, the park users, and saying if you're getting caught doing this stuff, you can't start coming back the next day and to trying to interrupt that behavior.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1179", "start": 8483.212, "end": 8484.594, "text": "And that's where we see that 90-day.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1180", "start": 8484.915, "end": 8489.608, "text": "So I do appreciate, Chair, you getting this on the agenda, and I would welcome the discussion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1181", "start": 8489.801, "end": 8490.059, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1182", "start": 8491.574, "end": 8491.913, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1183", "start": 8491.977, "end": 8492.59, "text": "Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1184", "start": 8496.476, "end": 8497.008, "text": "Thank you, Mr.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1185", "start": 8497.057, "end": 8497.25, "text": "Chair.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1186", "start": 8497.444, "end": 8499.267, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1187", "start": 8500.187, "end": 8514.917, "text": "I can appreciate what you're, what you're trying to solve for, but I think there's a bigger issue with this, and I think that communities of color will be targeted to have longer stays out of the parks and being able to use our facilities.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1188", "start": 8515.109, "end": 8542.167, "text": "And for good or bad, I think there— I, you know, I've heard about some things that happen in parks, but I just don't support the idea of putting extended you know, I think it's divisive, and I, and I think it, it, it hurts communities, and particularly communities of color.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1189", "start": 8542.393, "end": 8545.842, "text": "And so I won't be supporting this.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1190", "start": 8547.887, "end": 8548.467, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1191", "start": 8548.532, "end": 8554.255, "text": "It occurred to me, I think that we have some, um, public testimony folks signed up, right?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1192", "start": 8554.839, "end": 8555.504, "text": "Yes, we do.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1193", "start": 8555.958, "end": 8556.574, "text": "Are you—.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1194", "start": 8557.207, "end": 8565.145, "text": "So we should probably do the usual, let's have, you know, clarify— technical and clarifying questions, then we move to public testimony and then to broader debate.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1195", "start": 8568.013, "end": 8568.951, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1196", "start": 8572.042, "end": 8575.634, "text": "Thank you to Councilor Zimmerman and team for working on this, bringing it forward.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1197", "start": 8576.42, "end": 8584.358, "text": "Um, as I'm reading this, I, I had a question around the, uh, expansion of the geography of ejections and exclusions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1198", "start": 8584.878, "end": 8587.467, "text": "To include the adjacent city property and the right-of-way.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1199", "start": 8589.703, "end": 8597, "text": "Does that mirror the authority and jurisdiction of park rangers?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1200", "start": 8598.302, "end": 8611.597, "text": "There's been questions that have been raised to my office that the answer has been very difficult to get and convey back as to if— can you do the, like, step in, step out of a park onto the sidewalk, and whose jurisdiction is it?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1201", "start": 8611.666, "end": 8611.718, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1202", "start": 8612.829, "end": 8624.201, "text": "Is the anticipation that, that park rangers would be able to do the additional work, which if it's the same person doesn't feel like much additional work, of saying actually the sidewalk's not okay as well?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1203", "start": 8624.811, "end": 8629.116, "text": "Or would this by necessity require bringing in a different responder to that situation?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1204", "start": 8629.967, "end": 8636.215, "text": "I'm going to start with what I hope my philosophy can be about it, is that such silly lines are not drawn, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1205", "start": 8636.295, "end": 8652.628, "text": "That if, if a person yes.— who works for our parks rangers knows that something's impacting the park from just a few inches off the grass, that we don't get into some line of, oh, that's mine, that's yours, this is ours, etc., because nobody in the City of Portland cares.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1206", "start": 8653.302, "end": 8655.916, "text": "What they care about is the City of Portland is taking action.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1207", "start": 8656.013, "end": 8661.611, "text": "And so whether that's a police officer, a PS3, or a park ranger, they're all City of Portland employees.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1208", "start": 8662.061, "end": 8676.576, "text": "So that's, that's the philosophy from which I would like to I think that's where I would like to get to because I don't think that these lines of demarcation are actually very helpful to the public and they're not very helpful to having a functional city program.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1209", "start": 8677.636, "end": 8685.254, "text": "And I then, I will follow that up with, I'm not exactly sure what the standard today is when it comes to differentiating the work and where it goes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1210", "start": 8686.572, "end": 8696.903, "text": "And I think if those lines do exist, that I'd be all for working out how to eliminate this I can't work across the line idea because I just think that's non-functional.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1211", "start": 8697.561, "end": 8710.999, "text": "Yeah, I would also just say it relates to the, um, how dispatch works, that piece in terms of let's say I'm called, uh, 311 in the remaining hours it has, or 911, and how that gets done.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1212", "start": 8711.111, "end": 8722.436, "text": "Because I, I, um, I, I have been told, and I've personally had the experience of debating whether to make the call based on where a situation is occurring and based on who the responder might be.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1213", "start": 8723.142, "end": 8726.945, "text": "This, this is a really important point, Councilor, and I, I, I really appreciate that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1214", "start": 8727.073, "end": 8733.444, "text": "Um, the— what you're highlighting is that some of the exclusion stuff, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1215", "start": 8733.492, "end": 8740.97, "text": "So what can be enforced by a park ranger is very different than what can be enforced by a Portland police officer.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1216", "start": 8741.836, "end": 8745.555, "text": "And I would like our rangers to be able to yes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1217", "start": 8745.636, "end": 8751.669, "text": "—Kind of take ownership of that park situation in a way that doesn't have to involve always a legal and judicial situation.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1218", "start": 8754.471, "end": 8771.508, "text": "And the next piece of this is that if police are involved, you know, I think that for a lot of these, they have the same ability as park rangers, but because they mostly spend their time in the citing and arresting world, like, that's where their thoughts are at.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1219", "start": 8771.589, "end": 8779.161, "text": "But actually, I think the exclusion that the rangers spend their time in marrying those up a bit would be helpful, but it's an important, like, how do you dispatch kind of thing.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1220", "start": 8779.756, "end": 8784.576, "text": "But stopping a park ranger just because the sidewalk isn't their jurisdiction seems nonfunctional to me.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1221", "start": 8785.379, "end": 8787.114, "text": "Okay, thanks for that clarification.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1222", "start": 8787.291, "end": 8790.89, "text": "The other question I had was, I just want to make sure I'm reading this right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1223", "start": 8791.067, "end": 8800.305, "text": "On page 19, and it goes into 20, there's an area that relates to the automatic stay that's been removed from the code.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1224", "start": 8801.461, "end": 8806.009, "text": "This is Section I. I can't see that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1225", "start": 8806.073, "end": 8806.993, "text": "I got to scroll all the way up here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1226", "start": 8807.99, "end": 8810.319, "text": "The 20.12.265.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1227", "start": 8810.999, "end": 8825.899, "text": "And I just wanted to make sure I was understanding correctly that the idea here is that text previously said there's an automatic stay unless it's in Dishman, East Portland Community Center, etc.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1228", "start": 8826.05, "end": 8831.24, "text": "And now you're saying there's not— there's just no automatic— where there wouldn't be an automatic stay for those locations?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1229", "start": 8831.45, "end": 8832.73, "text": "I'm trying to catch up here, sorry.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1230", "start": 8832.73, "end": 8833.35, "text": "Yeah, sorry.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1231", "start": 8833.35, "end": 8834.61, "text": "Can you say again where you're looking?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1232", "start": 8834.61, "end": 8843.41, "text": "It's, uh, the bottom of page 19 of Exhibit A, and it's, uh, Section I.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1233", "start": 8843.41, "end": 8845.2, "text": "Okay, of course the pages are not numbered.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1234", "start": 8848.15, "end": 8850.85, "text": "So your question again, Councilor?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1235", "start": 8850.85, "end": 8862.321, "text": "Yeah, just, just making sure I understand correctly that basically right now It's automatically stayed unless it's in these locations that are enumerated in subsections 1 through whatever.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1236", "start": 8862.855, "end": 8869.648, "text": "And this is now saying— and those would not be automatically stayed, and your change would make it just not automatically stayed, period.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1237", "start": 8870.491, "end": 8873.06, "text": "Okay, uh, that's the clarification part.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1238", "start": 8873.11, "end": 8873.444, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1239", "start": 8874.263, "end": 8874.982, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1240", "start": 8876.855, "end": 8877.532, "text": "Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1241", "start": 8879.386, "end": 8879.998, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1242", "start": 8880.192, "end": 8886.309, "text": "Um, are we just doing technical questions or yes, and I think there's not much public testimony, but there's a couple folks.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1243", "start": 8886.534, "end": 8887.611, "text": "Okay, I'll keep it brief.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1244", "start": 8888.221, "end": 8891.563, "text": "Um, I think this might be for you, but maybe for Parks staff as well.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1245", "start": 8891.836, "end": 8897.396, "text": "Um, how did you speak with Parks about this proposal, um, or with LIUNA?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1246", "start": 8897.782, "end": 8901.526, "text": "Um, how long did they have to process this, and did they have any feedback on it?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1247", "start": 8902.072, "end": 8908.065, "text": "I'm gonna actually have my staff talk about their work with Parks Bureau and anyone else.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1248", "start": 8909.441, "end": 8911.882, "text": "Luke Sack with Councilor Zimmerman, for the record.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1249", "start": 8912.367, "end": 8924.875, "text": "We engaged with the administration extensively, with Parks and Recreation, with PPB, and the City Attorney's Office, and they're all in the room as well to answer any technical questions if you have specifics.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1250", "start": 8925.726, "end": 8926.213, "text": "Okay, great.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1251", "start": 8926.31, "end": 8930.257, "text": "I think I'll hold off until we move into discussion so folks can testify.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1252", "start": 8932.157, "end": 8932.905, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1253", "start": 8933.898, "end": 8938.568, "text": "Does the clerk want to call the public— the folks signed up for public testimony?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1254", "start": 8939.72, "end": 8940.042, "text": "Certainly.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1255", "start": 8940.863, "end": 8952.193, "text": "We have— excuse me— 3 people signed up for testimony: Nick G., Lou S., and Ryan S. And Ryan is online.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1256", "start": 8952.386, "end": 8959.364, "text": "Ryan, if you want to unmute and begin your testimony while— if there's anybody in the room wants to come up.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1257", "start": 8959.647, "end": 8959.796, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1258", "start": 8966.028, "end": 8966.889, "text": "Good afternoon, everyone.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1259", "start": 8967.003, "end": 8969.894, "text": "Or I guess it's still good morning, almost afternoon.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1260", "start": 8970.478, "end": 8980.658, "text": "Um, I apologize in advance, I'm in an office where the video camera is not quite synced up to where I am, so I'm going to be waving my arm while I'm talking.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1261", "start": 8981.95, "end": 8985.738, "text": "Uh, Ryan Swift-Major, business manager of Laborers Local 483.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1262", "start": 8985.82, "end": 8985.968, "text": "Hi, Ryan.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1263", "start": 8987.659, "end": 8993.643, "text": "I appreciate the amendment being brought forward.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1264", "start": 8994.368, "end": 9000.492, "text": "I think in its intent to help with safety in parks.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1265", "start": 9001.058, "end": 9007.187, "text": "I also appreciate Councilor Smith's concerns about how this will be utilized.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1266", "start": 9008.011, "end": 9012.684, "text": "I have a lot of concerns about this, and I know our members do as well.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1267", "start": 9012.733, "end": 9013.089, "text": "I have a question.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1268", "start": 9013.69, "end": 9017.386, "text": "And questions about does this extend to community centers?", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1269", "start": 9018.93, "end": 9041.18, "text": "When I went through and listened to the slides that you're talking about, Councilor Zimmerman, see violent crimes, child abuse, elder abuse, abuse of adults with mental illness and developmental disabilities, intimidation, weapons and drugs, and the discussion about the ping ponging of people.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1270", "start": 9041.642, "end": 9044.624, "text": "Going from one park to another park to another park.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1271", "start": 9045.553, "end": 9049.866, "text": "So the safety things that happen in parks always extend to community centers.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1272", "start": 9050.363, "end": 9063.941, "text": "The same people that struggle with drug use in the parks make their way to community centers to use restrooms, to use shower facilities, to sometimes try to push their product.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1273", "start": 9064.646, "end": 9067.435, "text": "The people with machetes are not just in the parks.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1274", "start": 9068.003, "end": 9069.943, "text": "They are also in community centers.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1275", "start": 9071.536, "end": 9082.422, "text": "Right now, there is not a safety plan in place for staff at community centers to exclude or acknowledge that other than calling park rangers.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1276", "start": 9082.956, "end": 9091.997, "text": "So someone walking around in a restroom with a machete, there is no recourse for staff to exclude them unless park rangers see it.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1277", "start": 9092.046, "end": 9092.191, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1278", "start": 9093.448, "end": 9100.185, "text": "And so I just have a lot of questions about purpose, uh, focus.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1279", "start": 9101.431, "end": 9112.177, "text": "I'm also pretty frustrated that park rangers weren't reached out to, seasonal park rangers, park technicians, facility maintenance—.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1280", "start": 9112.177, "end": 9113.374, "text": "All of those were in the room.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1281", "start": 9114.053, "end": 9117.297, "text": "Recreation staff, park staff.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1282", "start": 9118.161, "end": 9127.011, "text": "We're continually told that the city wants to make The City of Portland to be a place to work, an employer of choice.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1283", "start": 9127.628, "end": 9149.448, "text": "And when employees bring forth safety concerns, it feels like we're not listened to, feels like we're not acknowledged, and it feels like we aren't brought into the conversation to help develop any type of plan that is going to need to be enforced by people that are front-facing staff.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1284", "start": 9149.513, "end": 9149.61, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1285", "start": 9149.798, "end": 9154.881, "text": "So thank you for your time and consideration.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1286", "start": 9155.268, "end": 9156.526, "text": "And that concludes testimony.", "speaker": "Keelan McClymont" }, { "id": "cue-1287", "start": 9159.366, "end": 9159.655, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1288", "start": 9161.778, "end": 9162.341, "text": "Any discussion?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1289", "start": 9167.07, "end": 9167.588, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1290", "start": 9167.978, "end": 9168.253, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1291", "start": 9168.318, "end": 9171.967, "text": "First, this is such a fascinating agenda today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1292", "start": 9172.146, "end": 9186.995, "text": "These 3 things together have actually, you know, I think in the last item we were talking a lot and Councilor Zimmerman brought up the differential enforcement possibility and had an interesting conversation with Chair Novick about that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1293", "start": 9187.075, "end": 9189.726, "text": "And I think that's something that is really fascinating.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1294", "start": 9189.823, "end": 9192.12, "text": "I appreciate everything that Councilor Smith said.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1295", "start": 9192.168, "end": 9193.947, "text": "That's sort of my starting point on this too.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1296", "start": 9194.044, "end": 9196.405, "text": "I think there's a lot of interesting things here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1297", "start": 9196.454, "end": 9202.837, "text": "As I go through this, my question around park rangers was really about who's responsible.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1298", "start": 9203.607, "end": 9219.407, "text": "Um, because I think one of the challenges is I don't want to inadvertently— what already exists and then what would be added, the nexus of that be that because we're expanding the juris— the, the geography of this, that we're forced to bring in police.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1299", "start": 9219.455, "end": 9232.949, "text": "So I want to dig into that a little bit more, um, because that, that is both a problem for the differential enforcement possibility but also a problem from the perspective of what we were talking about in the other agenda item of the workload that we're expecting to, to staff too.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1300", "start": 9233.175, "end": 9238.064, "text": "And I, I think we shouldn't be expanding low acuity type of things into the police workload.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1301", "start": 9238.354, "end": 9241.969, "text": "So that's what I'm trying to just understand a little bit better and see if that is what's happening or not.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1302", "start": 9243.744, "end": 9258.349, "text": "We had a really interesting item a few months ago from Councilor— from Chair Novick, um, where the, the actual changes to the code around the nuisance properties that Councilor Novick was proposing was less the issue than what already existed.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1303", "start": 9258.812, "end": 9269.329, "text": "And I'm trying to understand that as well here because I, as I'm going through it, I had a couple big questions, but a lot of this makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1304", "start": 9269.49, "end": 9274.162, "text": "And I think, you know, adding counterfeit substances makes sense to me completely.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1305", "start": 9275.35, "end": 9283.973, "text": "I think adding pedestrian plazas as a place that we're looking, if you've been excluded from a pedestrian plaza before, that that's relevant, makes sense as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1306", "start": 9285.065, "end": 9288.132, "text": "And I could go down the list and talk about several of these things.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1307", "start": 9288.581, "end": 9296.224, "text": "When you get lower in the document, I think that I mentioned the one concern which comes up in a few different places and how they work together.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1308", "start": 9296.625, "end": 9305.89, "text": "The other question I had was about the sort of workload issue with relation to, it's now C3 in the middle of page 16, the requirement that you document why you didn't do it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1309", "start": 9306.42, "end": 9308.475, "text": "And I just wanted to understand that a little bit better.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1310", "start": 9309.069, "end": 9309.326, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1311", "start": 9309.856, "end": 9310.306, "text": "As well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1312", "start": 9310.836, "end": 9336.669, "text": "I will say real quick to the testimony, um, when I have seen the, the— when I've gone on tours, um, and met with some of our Parks and Recreation employees, which I did as a member of the Parks Board before I was a councilor, uh, as well as now, um, I, I, I have said that I've heard— sorry— that there has been a desire for a, a safety plan for a, a very long period of time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1313", "start": 9337.023, "end": 9342.805, "text": "That helps with frontline employees who are at a fixed location.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1314", "start": 9343.61, "end": 9347.675, "text": "Because park rangers, my understanding is there's 29 still, something like that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1315", "start": 9347.853, "end": 9350.979, "text": "I think we had a small expansion authorized, but I don't know how many of them have been hired.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1316", "start": 9351.75, "end": 9354.068, "text": "Is anyone here from— is Vicente here or anyone else?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1317", "start": 9355.388, "end": 9355.533, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1318", "start": 9356.129, "end": 9356.966, "text": "Oh, hi.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1319", "start": 9357.24, "end": 9362.326, "text": "Can you let us know how many park rangers we currently have versus authorized?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1320", "start": 9364.515, "end": 9366.823, "text": "Sorry, I didn't see you behind the pillars in the corner there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1321", "start": 9370.534, "end": 9374.746, "text": "Vicente Harrison, Health Safety Emergency Manager with Portland Parks and Recreation.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1322", "start": 9375.51, "end": 9377.968, "text": "Uh, thank you again to the committee for being here today.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1323", "start": 9378.498, "end": 9394.345, "text": "Um, City Administrator, uh, just to answer your question directly before any further remarks, currently we have, uh, 29 permanent park ranger positions And we have another 11 seasonal positions that we bring on during peak season, which is the summer.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1324", "start": 9395.051, "end": 9395.275, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1325", "start": 9395.596, "end": 9397.362, "text": "And then Director Pierce, I see you're here too.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1326", "start": 9397.442, "end": 9398.582, "text": "Thank you both for being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1327", "start": 9398.662, "end": 9400.78, "text": "Vicente, I almost didn't recognize you out of the uniform.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1328", "start": 9400.973, "end": 9405.964, "text": "You're always— I see you out and about so often, so I appreciate your work in general as well as being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1329", "start": 9406.526, "end": 9411.902, "text": "Director Pierce, how many parks assets, how many physical locations are there?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1330", "start": 9412.705, "end": 9414.438, "text": "You know, I don't have that figure off the top of my head.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1331", "start": 9414.55, "end": 9414.855, "text": "A lot.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1332", "start": 9415.738, "end": 9417.311, "text": "Significantly more than 29, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1333", "start": 9417.584, "end": 9418.418, "text": "Yes, for sure.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1334", "start": 9418.787, "end": 9432.734, "text": "And so even if all park rangers were on 24/7 and never took a break or had to sleep, which obviously is not a thing, but even if that was true, we'd have geographies that are not covered at any given moment, and a lot of them.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1335", "start": 9433.231, "end": 9451.958, "text": "Um, and so I think that's a, a part of this that is not— that I shouldn't— we can't say that that's a weakness of the ordinance because it's not about the code, but it is sort of an adjacent question of if we're doing this, are we really adding work to an entity that doesn't have the staffing, and what's the plan then?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1336", "start": 9452.711, "end": 9457.262, "text": "Um, I— 29 is, is ludicrously low in my opinion.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1337", "start": 9457.31, "end": 9464.888, "text": "I believe there was a plan to have it near 80 that was suggested, uh, a year to a year and a half ago, if I recall correctly.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1338", "start": 9464.968, "end": 9473.28, "text": "I heard about it, and, uh, that seems like— and, and we're having this conversation on another yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1339", "start": 9476.058, "end": 9486.745, "text": "And I hope that the administration is coming up with a way to do it as fast as possible, understanding that it's not going to be perfect on day 1.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1340", "start": 9487.649, "end": 9494.471, "text": "And I don't want to hold you to like, well, we authorized 80 positions, why aren't there 80 people today that are fully trained on July 2nd or something?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1341", "start": 9494.536, "end": 9497.476, "text": "But that's the piece of this that I'm trying to understand.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1342", "start": 9500.353, "end": 9505.72, "text": "I want to first just give you a chance to respond, and then I'm going to let— hear what my colleagues are talking about as we go forward.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1343", "start": 9505.816, "end": 9506.138, "text": "But thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1344", "start": 9507.102, "end": 9511.345, "text": "Yeah, so just a general response to the work that is being done today.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1345", "start": 9511.426, "end": 9518.311, "text": "I'm going to just share those remarks, and then I can, you know, follow up on the question that you had in terms of the potential of scaling up the program.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1346", "start": 9519.28, "end": 9526.704, "text": "So Portland Parks and Recreation have received the initial proposal for potential tidy Title 20 updates for discussion and further review.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1347", "start": 9527.442, "end": 9541.001, "text": "PP&R leadership is committed to collaborating with public safety leadership, the Portland Police Bureau, elected officials, and other city partners to identify sustainable and effective ways to improve public safety in Portland.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1348", "start": 9541.948, "end": 9558.145, "text": "PP&R will continue to evaluate the potential Title 20 updates, ensuring all proposed changes are properly reviewed and vetted in accordance with the Bureau's and city's established processes and core values, as with previous code updates.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1349", "start": 9559.042, "end": 9574.632, "text": "This review will include input from key stakeholders such as PP&R equity team, staff, public safety leadership, the City Attorney's Office, the Parks Director, our Deputy City Administrator, the City Administrator, and other relevant city partners.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1350", "start": 9575.786, "end": 9586.973, "text": "Public input and community perspectives are important to Portland Parks, and should be considered as appropriate stages during the city's evaluation of potential changes to Title 20 code.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1351", "start": 9588.031, "end": 9602.57, "text": "This vetted process has enabled our past success in being thoughtful, sustainable, legally sound, practical, and aligns with the city's commitment to public safety, equity, and responsible stewardship of Portland parks.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1352", "start": 9603.179, "end": 9608.439, "text": "So in terms of directly Scaling up our program.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1353", "start": 9608.711, "end": 9616.348, "text": "Right now we're at 29, and that's all we're funded for, is for 29, with the seasonal budget to bring on additional.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1354", "start": 9616.909, "end": 9624.048, "text": "If there was an opportunity to scale up the program, that would be how we've done in the past successfully.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1355", "start": 9624.128, "end": 9625.701, "text": "We'd stagger that approach.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1356", "start": 9626.15, "end": 9631.075, "text": "So we would likely bring on, you know, at least 6 to 8 rangers.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1357", "start": 9631.588, "end": 9632.503, "text": "There's an annual—.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1358", "start": 9632.503, "end": 9632.775, "text": "6 To 8.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1359", "start": 9633.193, "end": 9646.211, "text": "Ranger Academy that we would like them to go through that takes place every March that all rangers go through in order for them to be properly prepared to go out and safely patrol our parks and serve our staff as well as the public.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1360", "start": 9646.291, "end": 9649.004, "text": "So that, that's the answer to that.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1361", "start": 9650.112, "end": 9655.072, "text": "And just in addition, in terms to the property, so we have about 12 community centers.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1362", "start": 9655.73, "end": 9660.449, "text": "We have 12,000 acres approximately of parkland.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1363", "start": 9661.284, "end": 9663.661, "text": "And over 144 developed parks.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1364", "start": 9663.805, "end": 9673.262, "text": "So 29 rangers are across a 24-hour shift, or excuse me, a 24-hour work period, 7 days a week.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1365", "start": 9673.327, "end": 9685.642, "text": "So at any given time, we have about 6 to 8 rangers for the entire city on, and that's at the very best outcome.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1366", "start": 9688.023, "end": 9688.652, "text": "Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1367", "start": 9690.929, "end": 9691.59, "text": "Thanks, Chair Novick.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1368", "start": 9691.655, "end": 9694.496, "text": "Thank you guys so much for being here today to talk to us about this.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1369", "start": 9695.832, "end": 9705.608, "text": "So I think there was some conflicting information earlier, and I'm curious, for Parks and for the rangers, how were you consulted on this policy?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1370", "start": 9705.884, "end": 9707.832, "text": "Were you given time to give feedback?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1371", "start": 9707.913, "end": 9714.429, "text": "And I think particularly on the modifications to Chapter 2, absolutely.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1372", "start": 9714.477, "end": 9718.23, "text": "There were some preliminary discussions in terms of this, so we were consulted.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1373", "start": 9718.952, "end": 9728.319, "text": "That didn't expand to the degree that we would like it to do in terms of all of our staffing and making sure we're getting input from our leadership and other key stakeholders.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1374", "start": 9728.672, "end": 9734.414, "text": "But the consultation did take place and we were able to talk about these potential changes.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1375", "start": 9735.248, "end": 9735.681, "text": "Gotcha.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1376", "start": 9736.274, "end": 9740.797, "text": "Who were some of the folks that you're hoping to bring into the discussion in your ideal world?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1377", "start": 9741.584, "end": 9751.639, "text": "I mean, ideally, you know, our equity team is, is when we've updated Title 20 in the past, these are the kind of the milestones that we look to.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1378", "start": 9752.491, "end": 9764.12, "text": "The equity team, obviously our PP&R leadership, which is our division managers and the staff that report to them, which is a lot of our field and community center staff, our City Attorney's Office, of course.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1379", "start": 9764.232, "end": 9768.955, "text": "And I think that this, this has been going through our City Attorney's Office, which is good.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1380", "start": 9769.597, "end": 9772.34, "text": "Our parks director and DCA.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1381", "start": 9772.966, "end": 9776.127, "text": "And obviously that will go up to our city administrator as well.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1382", "start": 9776.672, "end": 9777.972, "text": "And then other city partners.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1383", "start": 9778.357, "end": 9782.977, "text": "We would like to, you know, just get city feedback in terms of the community that we serve.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1384", "start": 9783.571, "end": 9785.673, "text": "The user experience is important to parks.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1385", "start": 9785.737, "end": 9791.561, "text": "It's what we want people— we want them to have a valued experience when they enter our spaces.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1386", "start": 9791.994, "end": 9793.454, "text": "So their feedback is very key.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1387", "start": 9793.695, "end": 9794.561, "text": "So those are just a few.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1388", "start": 9797.606, "end": 9798.026, "text": "Gotcha.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1389", "start": 9798.284, "end": 9806.074, "text": "Um, as far as your individual feedback, what was some of the initial feedback that you gave, um, and did you see it integrated into the policy?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1390", "start": 9807.991, "end": 9814.927, "text": "Yeah, the initial feedback we, we gave was, you know, a lot of conversation in terms of the theory of what this potential is.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1391", "start": 9815.509, "end": 9827.904, "text": "Um, obviously, as park rangers, non-sworn officers, we work in collaboration and partnership with Portland Police in terms of really making sure sure that we're able to address some of the crimes that are in parks.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1392", "start": 9828.401, "end": 9834.089, "text": "Cold is one thing, and I think a lot of the things that we've talked about today are crimes that are taking place in parks.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1393", "start": 9834.586, "end": 9838.047, "text": "And we really would value the police support in that regard.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1394", "start": 9838.352, "end": 9851.107, "text": "And we've had success in the past and currently are working with police in terms of joint patrols, targeting certain areas that we know the public has let us know that they have identified crime in so we could address at our level.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1395", "start": 9851.155, "end": 9851.347, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1396", "start": 9852.614, "end": 9866.041, "text": "The potential for expanding beyond the park zone is something that is definitely something for more consideration because there's just jurisdictional lines that we can't cross in terms of what the rangers are responsible for.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1397", "start": 9866.586, "end": 9870.548, "text": "So within parks property is where our jurisdiction ends.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1398", "start": 9870.981, "end": 9883.569, "text": "But as we go into the roadway and public sidewalks, there's other conversations in terms of those entities being able to you know, work with rangers on what our authority would be for activity in those.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1399", "start": 9883.762, "end": 9897.518, "text": "And currently what we do now is we refer— a ranger just doesn't end when they leave the park, but we refer those situations to the proper folks so that they're aware and they can take action as necessary.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1400", "start": 9898.983, "end": 9900.194, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1401", "start": 9900.823, "end": 9903.245, "text": "So I'm hearing some, you know, general feedback.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1402", "start": 9903.406, "end": 9905.489, "text": "Was there something specific that you wanted modified?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1403", "start": 9905.99, "end": 9910.434, "text": "I'm hearing maybe some conflict about the sidewalk aspect of it and that being outside of jurisdiction.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1404", "start": 9911.762, "end": 9916.515, "text": "Are there specific things that you wished were in the proposal or integrated?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1405", "start": 9917.606, "end": 9923.608, "text": "Again, I think just a fully vetted process in terms of just making sure we hear back from our staff.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1406", "start": 9923.818, "end": 9932.352, "text": "I don't want to speak for our staff in terms of their— how this impacts their work and how they come to work and feel.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1407", "start": 9932.826, "end": 9934.737, "text": "Like they are safe to perform their duties.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1408", "start": 9935.074, "end": 9938.928, "text": "So I think that is just an important piece that, you know, we would want to see.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1409", "start": 9939.024, "end": 9947.02, "text": "But there, there, and again, with our equity team is just a very another element because parks are the most diverse places in the city.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1410", "start": 9947.213, "end": 9948.947, "text": "Everybody convenes there.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1411", "start": 9949.06, "end": 9958.019, "text": "And we would want to make sure that we are able to support our citizens from an equitable standpoint in terms of this code update.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1412", "start": 9959.013, "end": 9959.542, "text": "Thank you so much.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1413", "start": 9959.638, "end": 9973.595, "text": "I really appreciate you, you know, not everyone always thinks about bringing their frontline staff in, and I really appreciate that you have that perspective and that you're trying to get those folks there, because often the frontline folks know exactly what's happening on the ground that the rest of us don't.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1414", "start": 9973.915, "end": 9984.779, "text": "And I do agree with Councilor Smith's earlier comments around the potential negative impacts on different communities who are going to be overpoliced.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1415", "start": 9986.053, "end": 9987.781, "text": "You know, rather than, than other people.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1416", "start": 9988.557, "end": 9993.806, "text": "I would definitely love to have a briefing with frontline staff.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1417", "start": 9993.983, "end": 10007.244, "text": "I don't know if that happens at committee or if it happens individually for us, but I would love to get more of that perspective really fleshed out about what it's going to look like to change this enforcement, and from the equity team as well.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1418", "start": 10007.309, "end": 10010.564, "text": "So perhaps that's something me and the chair can work on.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1419", "start": 10010.613, "end": 10010.759, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1420", "start": 10011.352, "end": 10015.578, "text": "To either bring that as a discussion to committee or individually.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1421", "start": 10019.508, "end": 10021.044, "text": "Trying to see if I have any more questions.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1422", "start": 10026.75, "end": 10034.103, "text": "And were the unions who represent the rangers consulted on this as well, or is that— are those some of the folks that you would want to bring in as well?", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1423", "start": 10035.552, "end": 10043.065, "text": "Well, since we didn't necessarily lead this process, that would be something for Councilor Zimmerman's staff to answer.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1424", "start": 10043.505, "end": 10044.108, "text": "I'm not certain.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1425", "start": 10044.65, "end": 10044.942, "text": "So, yeah.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1426", "start": 10045.007, "end": 10045.348, "text": "Gotcha.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1427", "start": 10045.657, "end": 10045.836, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1428", "start": 10046.064, "end": 10053.519, "text": "Well, it sounds like we need more extensive process with frontline staff regardless.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1429", "start": 10053.76, "end": 10059.795, "text": "And I heard from the person who testified for LIUNA that I think they wanted to be a part of that process as well.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1430", "start": 10062.879, "end": 10064.247, "text": "I think I will pause there.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1431", "start": 10064.436, "end": 10066.328, "text": "See if my other colleagues have anything else to add.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1432", "start": 10068.58, "end": 10069.095, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1433", "start": 10069.835, "end": 10070.689, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1434", "start": 10071.027, "end": 10076.436, "text": "Aside from the sidewalk thing, I'm a little bit confused by some of the discussion here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1435", "start": 10077.44, "end": 10092.415, "text": "So what is it about the current— because the only thing that's really changing here is after a park ranger writes an exclusion, which means their job is done, that the automatic stay process doesn't occur.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1436", "start": 10093.361, "end": 10095.573, "text": "And actually, that's it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1437", "start": 10095.765, "end": 10110.304, "text": "That is the only change for day-to-day work from a park ranger perspective that would change is the stay is no longer automatic, because the other change is just taking what's already on the books and saying it's going from 30 to 90 or from 60 to 90.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1438", "start": 10110.384, "end": 10115.594, "text": "So I don't want to throw around certain words without meaning here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1439", "start": 10115.755, "end": 10132.877, "text": "So I don't know what you mean when you bring up some of this stuff, I also would be cautious about, you know, when a counselor's office reaches out to management, we are— it's encompassing upon management to have that first-line perspective versus me reaching down to speak to individuals.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1440", "start": 10132.926, "end": 10134.746, "text": "So I want to be real cautious here with what we're saying.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1441", "start": 10135.665, "end": 10140.789, "text": "But what I don't understand, and I would like to— because I actually, colleagues, I want to be real transparent.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1442", "start": 10141.63, "end": 10147.351, "text": "The sidewalk extension piece is one of those of If that's not going to work, I think we pull it, right?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1443", "start": 10147.655, "end": 10149.035, "text": "I want to be real transparent about that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1444", "start": 10149.196, "end": 10149.918, "text": "I think we pull it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1445", "start": 10150.8, "end": 10165.768, "text": "But this idea that somehow this is this grand change because it's like a whopping 5 things— 30 turns into 90, 60 turns into 90, automatic stay is eliminated.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1446", "start": 10166.185, "end": 10169.586, "text": "So I don't want this to be too much bigger than what it is.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1447", "start": 10169.683, "end": 10169.939, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1448", "start": 10170.294, "end": 10172.412, "text": "And I think that the idea that, Mr.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1449", "start": 10172.461, "end": 10181.843, "text": "Administrator, that I would reach down into your employee base to write it with an employee versus writing with your managers is a strange standard.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1450", "start": 10183.29, "end": 10187.134, "text": "But if there is something that I'm missing, by all means, let me know.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1451", "start": 10187.96, "end": 10198.6, "text": "But I want to— the idea about where this is enforced and how it's enforced is incredibly important, and I value that part of this discussion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1452", "start": 10199.313, "end": 10212.785, "text": "I want to just talk about a couple of places: Dawson, Wilkes, Columbia Slough Trail, Northwest Powerhurst, Ventura, Gateway, East Holiday, Lincoln, Cherry City, Cully, Whitaker, Sacagawea, Kunamokwit Peninsula, Farragut, Matt Dishman, and Lily Albina.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1453", "start": 10213.748, "end": 10220.765, "text": "The number of exclusions that occurred at that list of places was 16, and it was this last year there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1454", "start": 10220.813, "end": 10221.648, "text": "I'm looking at my staff.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1455", "start": 10221.776, "end": 10222.611, "text": "This last year.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1456", "start": 10222.756, "end": 10223.237, "text": "Okay, 16.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1457", "start": 10223.318, "end": 10223.767, "text": "16.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1458", "start": 10224.539, "end": 10224.653, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1459", "start": 10224.913, "end": 10230.988, "text": "Out of 16, 11 of those exclusions were for things that don't fall into this category.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1460", "start": 10231.75, "end": 10234.293, "text": "They were other types of exclusions, the non-elevated type.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1461", "start": 10234.374, "end": 10238.109, "text": "So we're really talking about 4 that would have fallen into this category.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1462", "start": 10240.566, "end": 10250.169, "text": "And that is out of a total— so 16 out of a total of 257 exclusions that existed.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1463", "start": 10250.99, "end": 10251.055, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1464", "start": 10251.137, "end": 10254.828, "text": "Across the city park and infrastructure, and it looks like community centers.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1465", "start": 10256.194, "end": 10276.48, "text": "So I say that because how and where things are enforced and where exclusions have existed, I think that there has been a lot of work to make sure that folks are being quite careful and quite transparent and also using it judiciously.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1466", "start": 10277.182, "end": 10284.215, "text": "But the majority are happening in other— in parts of the city.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1467", "start": 10284.263, "end": 10285.667, "text": "I think a lot of this is probably downtown.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1468", "start": 10287.81, "end": 10295.091, "text": "What I heard from folks is, what is the point of an exclusion if they automatically— it stayed?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1469", "start": 10295.14, "end": 10296.04, "text": "So why would I write it?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1470", "start": 10297.084, "end": 10302.082, "text": "So this is one of those where you hear that and you go, okay, we can work on a tool to give public safety this thing.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1471", "start": 10302.374, "end": 10302.882, "text": "So yes.", "speaker": "Brian Hughes" }, { "id": "cue-1472", "start": 10303.379, "end": 10304.373, "text": "Okay, got it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1473", "start": 10304.966, "end": 10312.856, "text": "I still am missing like what this crux is about, about what changes for the interaction between the officer or the park ranger and the person.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1474", "start": 10313.065, "end": 10315.021, "text": "I'm not, I'm not understanding that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1475", "start": 10315.935, "end": 10324.467, "text": "But we don't want to have things on our books that are not seen as worth of doing if they are automatically stayed or there's a change there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1476", "start": 10324.547, "end": 10332.606, "text": "So, but I do want to the colleagues, I just want to say like the sidewalk thing, if that has those are things that I think are worthy of the discussion.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1477", "start": 10332.947, "end": 10341.164, "text": "Our attempt in expanding in those areas was just to improve what looked like a broken system.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1478", "start": 10341.31, "end": 10347.939, "text": "But if those are not functional, I'm happy to hear that discussion and move those out in a future reading.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1479", "start": 10348.069, "end": 10348.721, "text": "So thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1480", "start": 10350.607, "end": 10351.141, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1481", "start": 10351.19, "end": 10351.821, "text": "Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1482", "start": 10352.161, "end": 10354.846, "text": "And by the way, Councilor Marie and I both have to leave at 12:30 on the dot.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1483", "start": 10355.718, "end": 10356.409, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1484", "start": 10357.566, "end": 10360.555, "text": "Has the Parks Board been consulted on this by any chance?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1485", "start": 10361.439, "end": 10362.178, "text": "Maybe I'll jump in.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1486", "start": 10362.306, "end": 10365.359, "text": "I also, I just wanna respond a little bit to Councilor Zimmerman's question.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1487", "start": 10365.456, "end": 10374.068, "text": "I think there's some process clarity that maybe is, at least for me, this is a new process in terms of how we're producing code amendments.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1488", "start": 10374.197, "end": 10383.943, "text": "When in 2019, when the last time the parks updated it, it was run by parks, there was a series of steps that Parks went through in terms of public feedback and all those steps.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1489", "start": 10384.552, "end": 10393.72, "text": "This is coming from a council office, and it isn't— wasn't at least eminently clear to me we were moving from an informal consultation into a formal process of feedback and review.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1490", "start": 10394.345, "end": 10404.01, "text": "And so I think part of what we are saying is at least the convention has been when a bureau is running these processes, there's a series of steps and fuller consultation.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1491", "start": 10404.122, "end": 10409.043, "text": "And so I think we may be— clearly we're moving into that fuller process now.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1492", "start": 10409.107, "end": 10409.235, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1493", "start": 10409.493, "end": 10413.173, "text": "And we can help with that process in terms of consultations, both with staff.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1494", "start": 10413.512, "end": 10417.337, "text": "There would be no expectation, it would not be appropriate for you to directly consult with staff.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1495", "start": 10417.466, "end": 10420.322, "text": "I think the question is what step in this journey are we on?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1496", "start": 10420.629, "end": 10423.663, "text": "When are we moving to a more formal dialogue around this?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1497", "start": 10424.163, "end": 10425.889, "text": "And how can we be in support of that?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1498", "start": 10425.954, "end": 10428.658, "text": "I think in general we are supportive of this proposal.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1499", "start": 10429.05, "end": 10432.879, "text": "It's more about just process clarity about how do we work on this process together.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1500", "start": 10434.739, "end": 10440.706, "text": "And no, the Parks Board met last week and we did not bring this as okay.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1501", "start": 10441.411, "end": 10445.499, "text": "I guess just because I have the floor, I think process clarity is good.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1502", "start": 10445.82, "end": 10453.226, "text": "And I also agree, we've been told many times it's not appropriate for us to call like, you know, the front desk of a community center.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1503", "start": 10453.355, "end": 10461.322, "text": "So if you are one of the people who works at the front desk of a community center and are wondering why that hasn't happened, we've gotten a lot of don't do that over time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1504", "start": 10461.386, "end": 10463.791, "text": "So I think that makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1505", "start": 10463.839, "end": 10464.015, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1506", "start": 10465.94, "end": 10471.232, "text": "I think it'd be helpful for us to know, like, what it— what's a reasonable timeline as well, and we can follow up there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1507", "start": 10472.205, "end": 10472.511, "text": "Yep.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1508", "start": 10472.688, "end": 10476.372, "text": "I'd love to know what the Parks Board thinks, just personally, as I mentioned, a former member of it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1509", "start": 10476.79, "end": 10482.81, "text": "But I think that that's just kind of helpful general clarity.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1510", "start": 10483.728, "end": 10499.176, "text": "The— for me, there— I can go through, and I'm happy to follow up with Councilor Zimmerman about the stuff here that is like, this might be a challenge, this seems really awesome, and here's things that if I had this other information would be helpful for me.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1511", "start": 10501.233, "end": 10508.776, "text": "The pedestrian plaza piece, and this is just a clarifier, the exclusions there are done by PBOT as well, right?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1512", "start": 10510.126, "end": 10515.386, "text": "And so I'm curious how the information would be shared as an implementation question that I don't think—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1513", "start": 10515.451, "end": 10516.764, "text": "We'd love to have done that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1514", "start": 10516.829, "end": 10520.87, "text": "We actually made a decision To not muddy the water given the code issue there.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1515", "start": 10521.399, "end": 10529.08, "text": "But that was in our early discussions of it actually makes sense because it kind of walks like a park, functions as a park, but is a PBOT asset.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1516", "start": 10529.272, "end": 10536.841, "text": "So I made that decision not to include it in this time, not for a reason that we didn't think it would be a good, it's just that we were focused on parks this time.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1517", "start": 10537.033, "end": 10538.012, "text": "But accurate.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1518", "start": 10538.236, "end": 10541.732, "text": "And in terms of what you're changing, that makes sense.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1519", "start": 10541.94, "end": 10557.061, "text": "I'll note that I was asking more from the perspective of, When you're looking at, have they, is this the first offense, second offense, third offense, you're also now looking at pedestrian plazas as an earlier, the first or second, to determine if this is the second or third.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1520", "start": 10557.414, "end": 10561.332, "text": "And so I'm curious how the information flow is gonna come from PBOT over here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1521", "start": 10561.734, "end": 10570.308, "text": "But what I'm also hearing is, I think it's time that we have the conversation about what is the park ranger program's jurisdiction.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1522", "start": 10570.966, "end": 10574.677, "text": "Not only geographically, but also in terms of what you can do.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1523", "start": 10574.757, "end": 10589.229, "text": "And obviously Vicente is somebody who should be at the center of that conversation as part of this process, because I think you're right, the pedestrian plazas walk like a park and talk like a park and probably should be ranged.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1524", "start": 10589.615, "end": 10598.036, "text": "I don't think you guys use that term, but it should be served by the park ranger program in the long run, not tomorrow, but, you know, at as part of this conversation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1525", "start": 10599.29, "end": 10604.061, "text": "And so I'm curious about that, but that's, that's a piece that I think we should dig into more over time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1526", "start": 10604.255, "end": 10604.498, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1527", "start": 10607.564, "end": 10608.319, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1528", "start": 10608.544, "end": 10614.408, "text": "So I have a question both for you, Vicente, and for, and for the police folks who are here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1529", "start": 10615.18, "end": 10623.225, "text": "I think Councilor Kanal mentioned this earlier, the requirement that there be a documentation of why an exclusion wasn't issued.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1530", "start": 10623.947, "end": 10630.32, "text": "Are people concerned that that might be a workload issue, or does that seem like something that's not really a problem?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1531", "start": 10632.93, "end": 10635.273, "text": "I'll let police go first and then I can.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1532", "start": 10637.875, "end": 10638.263, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1533", "start": 10638.845, "end": 10641.592, "text": "Chris Burley, Portland Police Captain at North Precinct.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1534", "start": 10642.31, "end": 10644.747, "text": "Appreciate the question, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1535", "start": 10645.328, "end": 10647.475, "text": "This has been a point of conversation.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1536", "start": 10647.895, "end": 10659.567, "text": "I've spoken with there would likely be a cost in us identifying, creating some type of template so we could pull data.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1537", "start": 10660.193, "end": 10665.587, "text": "And, you know, with any unfunded mandate right now, the way things are, it makes it very difficult.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1538", "start": 10666.39, "end": 10668.686, "text": "It is also a time constraint on our officers.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1539", "start": 10668.895, "end": 10676.601, "text": "Our call response times, as was discussed by Deputy Chief Hughes earlier and brought up by some of you, is nowhere near where we want it.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1540", "start": 10676.666, "end": 10678.046, "text": "And so this would be another burden on our officers.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1541", "start": 10678.094, "end": 10678.223, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Ryan Swift-Major" }, { "id": "cue-1542", "start": 10679.575, "end": 10686.066, "text": "You know, requirement of our officers to write a report or finish a template.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1543", "start": 10686.243, "end": 10693.059, "text": "And I attempted to reach out to staff at the Police Bureau to kind of find out how much they thought that might cost.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1544", "start": 10693.449, "end": 10697.194, "text": "However, I haven't heard back on doing how much that would cost.", "speaker": "Aaron Schmautz" }, { "id": "cue-1545", "start": 10699.835, "end": 10702.395, "text": "Thank you again, Councilor Novick, for the question.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1546", "start": 10702.444, "end": 10708.857, "text": "So currently within the program, this documentation is taking place.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1547", "start": 10708.937, "end": 10711.361, "text": "It's not a direct tally, if you will.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1548", "start": 10711.441, "end": 10718.568, "text": "So when a ranger makes contact, that is documented in their daily data, that's their daily report.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1549", "start": 10719.932, "end": 10728.824, "text": "If there isn't an exclusion issued, there may be a special report associated or a subject of interest report because the individual just walked away.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1550", "start": 10729.482, "end": 10745.608, "text": "This is why one of the things that is in this proposal that we do support is the removal of the stay because that would give us, when we do get contact information of the individual that we're excluding, that would give us immediate remedy for the park.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1551", "start": 10746.026, "end": 10754.574, "text": "But the tallying, so to speak, of why and why not, it's challenging and there's an equity component.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1552", "start": 10754.622, "end": 10756.165, "text": "And I'll just share an example.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1553", "start": 10757.595, "end": 10764.994, "text": "If we are dealing with someone downtown per se that is drinking outside, right?", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1554", "start": 10765.299, "end": 10769.708, "text": "That's, that's a, you know, what would sound like an excludable offense.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1555", "start": 10770.269, "end": 10773.187, "text": "You know, obviously there's more detail based upon the contact.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1556", "start": 10773.86, "end": 10784.778, "text": "We have these same situations happening at Peninsula Park Rose Garden where we have folks that are out, a couple having a bottle of wine on a picnic blanket.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1557", "start": 10785.483, "end": 10791.447, "text": "Now, will we have the same standard there to issue an exclusion for somebody in those situations?", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1558", "start": 10791.543, "end": 10800.711, "text": "So there's there's always more when you're dealing with the frontline situation and the information that you're gathering concerning what the condition is.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1559", "start": 10801.161, "end": 10812.898, "text": "So I don't know necessarily if, if that understanding why or why not we didn't take that enforcement action would tell a story that would be useful.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1560", "start": 10813.492, "end": 10824.569, "text": "But we do document those currently now within our daily reports, whether it's a special report, an incident report, whether it's a damage report or vandalism associated.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1561", "start": 10825.77, "end": 10828.663, "text": "So that's how I'll answer that question.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1562", "start": 10829.177, "end": 10831.074, "text": "Chair, can I just clarify something?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1563", "start": 10831.813, "end": 10832.199, "text": "Of course.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1564", "start": 10833.035, "end": 10842.836, "text": "The great example that the director just gave, but that's actually not what the need to document is about.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1565", "start": 10844.237, "end": 10849.861, "text": "If you look across the park and you maybe see something, you make a choice in your head not to deal with it, that doesn't require it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1566", "start": 10850.326, "end": 10855.774, "text": "What this— so, so good example, and I want to make sure that the rangers don't under— they understand that that's not what we're talking about.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1567", "start": 10856.415, "end": 10860.053, "text": "Really, this is about— this is about a lot of your officers, uh, Captain.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1568", "start": 10860.117, "end": 10885.839, "text": "So you, you make an arrest, so we've already got you in the, uh, we're doing reports, we're doing— we're taking the time to arrest what we're saying is that if then the arrest for what is also an excludable is not excluded, is there the possibility to make a note in that report of chose not to exclude for this reason, et cetera?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1569", "start": 10885.904, "end": 10895.992, "text": "And I'm sure there are very good valid reasons why, perhaps, but that wouldn't apply if there was no interaction, no arrest, no— and that's why it wouldn't really, in that case, apply.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1570", "start": 10896.073, "end": 10896.154, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Vicente Harrison" }, { "id": "cue-1571", "start": 10896.496, "end": 10900.787, "text": "I want to just clarify, because that's some nuance, but that was a perfect example.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1572", "start": 10901.96, "end": 10905.72, "text": "And then I am— Captain, I'm hearing you loud and clear on this report piece.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1573", "start": 10905.768, "end": 10914.67, "text": "And to colleagues, I would put that also in the category of willing to hear more about and what's functional or not functional if there was an amendment to it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1574", "start": 10915.297, "end": 10916.614, "text": "But that's how I want to describe that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1575", "start": 10916.679, "end": 10918.061, "text": "It's more, we're already making an arrest.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1576", "start": 10918.189, "end": 10919.426, "text": "Why wouldn't we also do this?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1577", "start": 10919.491, "end": 10926.496, "text": "Because that helps then the rangers later on to be like, you've been right, you got arrested for drugs in public, you got to have an exclusion now.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1578", "start": 10926.625, "end": 10927.782, "text": "That's what— that's our intent here.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1579", "start": 10928.328, "end": 10929.035, "text": "Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1580", "start": 10929.389, "end": 10929.63, "text": "Sorry.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1581", "start": 10930.401, "end": 10930.819, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1582", "start": 10930.883, "end": 10938.387, "text": "I know we're almost at time, and Councilor Novick and I have to leave right at 12:30, so I just wanted to put a question that I want on the record for future discussion, if you could bring it.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1583", "start": 10939.255, "end": 10947.915, "text": "Basically, I just feel like I need a lot more understanding on why this code change makes sense as a solution, especially given a lot of the risks that Councilor Smith laid out earlier.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1584", "start": 10948.91, "end": 10972.516, "text": "So if the Bureau could get us more data on how many exclusions the Bureau issued in the last few years, how many of those were appealed, reversed, how many were for conduct that's currently listed on the E.2A list, and how many contacts that ended in a warning or ejection instead of exclusion, and what standards there are for that decision-making.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1585", "start": 10972.965, "end": 10973.879, "text": "Sorry, I threw a lot of questions at you.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1586", "start": 10973.96, "end": 10978.749, "text": "I'm sorry, I threw questions out at you, but it's recorded so you can look at it later, or I will email it to whoever would like.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1587", "start": 10979.72, "end": 10983.845, "text": "But I think those are some of the questions that I would want answered for the follow-up discussion.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1588", "start": 10984.023, "end": 10985.026, "text": "And thanks so much for your time today.", "speaker": "Angelita Morillo" }, { "id": "cue-1589", "start": 10986.816, "end": 10987.7, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1590", "start": 10987.78, "end": 10992.103, "text": "Thanks everybody for, I think, a valuable initial discussion of this proposal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1591", "start": 10992.682, "end": 10995.655, "text": "And now this meeting of the Committee and Public Safety Committee is adjourned.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" } ] }