{ "meetingId": "2026-08-04-hpc-1", "title": "Portland City Council Housing & Permitting Committee 08/04/26", "displayTitle": "Housing & Permitting Committee", "date": "2026-08-04T15:42:00-07:00", "duration": 161, "videoUrl": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3ih6WSusE", "videoId": "Oy3ih6WSusE", "agendaUrl": "https://www.portland.gov/council/agenda/housing-and-permitting-committee/2026/8/4", "agendaItems": [ { "number": 2, "title": "Housing and Permitting community feedback", "type": "Public hearing", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/public-hearing/housing-and-permitting-community-feedback" }, { "number": 3, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 7545 NE Sandy Blvd for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-7545-ne-sandy-blvd" }, { "number": 4, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 7545 WI/NE Sandy Blvd for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-7545-wi-ne-sandy-blvd" }, { "number": 5, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 6307 N Montana Ave for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-6307-n-montana-ave" }, { "number": 6, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on N Columbia Blvd for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-n-columbia-blvd" }, { "number": 7, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 7250 NE Lombard St for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-7250-ne-lombard-st" }, { "number": 8, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 7101–7103 SE Division St for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-7101-7103-se-division-st" }, { "number": 9, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 1625 SE 35th Ave for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-1625-se-35th-ave" }, { "number": 10, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 2706 SE 122nd Ave for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-2706-se-122nd-ave" }, { "number": 11, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 2734-2738 NE Alberta St for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-2734-2738-ne-alberta-st" }, { "number": 12, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 4324 SE 65th Ave for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-4324-se-65th-ave" }, { "number": 13, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 6627 SE Woodstock Blvd for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-6627-se-woodstock-blvd" }, { "number": 14, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 10104 SE Harold St for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-10104-se-harold-st" }, { "number": 15, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 5706 SE Lambert St for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-5706-se-lambert-st" }, { "number": 16, "title": "Initiate foreclosure action on 855 NE Church St for the collection of delinquent City Liens placed against the property", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/foreclosure-855-ne-church-st" }, { "number": 17, "title": "Appropriate grant award of $35 million for Section 108 Loan Guarantee Program", "type": "Ordinance", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/ordinance/appropriate-section-108-loan-guarantee-program" }, { "number": 18, "title": "PNW Single Stair Design Competition", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/pnw-single-stair-design-competition" } ], "summary": "**The Housing and Permitting Committee referred a $35 million federal housing loan and 10 property-foreclosure ordinances to the full City Council on 5-0 votes, then heard an hour-long presentation on single-stair building reform that drew sustained pushback from one member.**\n\nThe committee, chaired by Councilor Candace Avalos (District 1) with Councilor Mitch Green (District 4) as vice chair, met August 4 with five of its members present.\n\n## $35 million federal housing loan\n\nThe committee voted **5-0** to send Mayor Keith Wilson's ordinance appropriating a **$35 million** U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Section 108 award to full Council with a recommendation to pass ([00:55:59](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:55:59)). Kari Mosden of the Grants Management Division said the funds must serve households earning 0 to 80% of area median income and are aimed at preserving existing affordable housing; the city's 2023 Housing Needs Analysis identifies a need for **38,000** affordable units by 2045.\n\nAvalos and Councilor Elana Pirtle-Guiney (District 2) stressed repeatedly that the award is a loan, not a grant, and that the city is responsible for repayment. Amanda Saul of the Portland Housing Bureau said the bureau would first focus on preservation projects. Kara Hamilton of the bureau said the loan carries a floating rate — the three-month Treasury auction bill rate plus 35 basis points, \"about 4.17%, so significantly lower than a for-profit lender would be lending at\" ([00:47:50](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:47:50)) — over a 20-year term. Saul said the bureau will set aside part of its annual Community Development Block Grant entitlement as a reserve to cover any repayment gaps, and would likely cycle the funds through projects only once. Pirtle-Guiney said she was \"comfortable with that intent moving forward\" ([00:52:10](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:52:10)). Saul noted the bureau chose not to combine this money with an **$8.8 million** mortgage and rent buydown Council passed in April, opting to move that out quickly and treat the Section 108 fund as a later step ([00:53:18](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:53:18)). Green called the item \"this is a slam dunk for me\" ([00:52:16](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:52:16)). One person testified, reading a statement: \"home-forward-cages-people-for-profit. End-the-suffering-now.\" ([00:38:38](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:38:38)).\n\n## Ten foreclosure ordinances advanced\n\nThe committee voted **5-0** to refer 10 ordinances initiating foreclosure on properties with delinquent city liens to full Council ([00:34:00](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:34:00)). Kevin Foster, the city's Foreclosure Prevention Manager, gave updates on a package first taken up July 21. Three items were pulled back to the Mayor's Office because owners resolved their situations — one satisfied the liens, one entered a payment plan, and one, at 6307 N Montana Avenue, reported progress by email \"within the last hour\" ([00:23:12](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:23:12)). A fourth property, 10104 SE Harold Street, was held in committee at Avalos's request to give the owner's family more time; Avalos said she believed \"additional time is appropriate to allow the property owner's family to determine whether they can resolve the situation without the need for foreclosure\" ([00:21:48](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:21:48)).\n\nPirtle-Guiney asked that 855 NE Church Street not be placed on a consent agenda so she can question its status at full Council. Foster said the package reaches full Council on September 9, with the committee's vote coming later, leaving time to remove properties if owners commit ([00:25:49](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:25:49)).\n\nIn the open-comment period, two people testified. Madeline Masters, of District 2, opposed citywide upzoning, describing an old-growth bungalow near her that was \"bought privately for $450,000\" and \"now listed as a raised development site for $695,000\" ([00:10:55](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:10:55)), and cited a developer's nearby 900-square-foot houses selling for nearly $400,000 and a $64 million listing for 170 new-build homes. Lacey Sutton described stair and balcony railing safety at a Habitat for Humanity project, Cherry Blossom, saying the Design Commission required vertical railings as a condition of approval but horizontal \"ladder\" railings were installed; she said the bureau reversed a directive to replace them after news coverage ([00:14:31](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@00:14:31)).\n\n## Single-stair building reform\n\nGreen and Avalos invited Portland Neighbors Welcome and partners to present on single-stair, or \"point access block,\" buildings — small multifamily buildings served by one staircase. Michael Anderson of the Sightline Institute said Seattle has allowed such buildings up to six stories since 1977, that Oregon added a four-story option in Appendix Q of the state building code in 2025, and that a week after Portland adopted it, the Fire Bureau said in the Daily Journal of Commerce the buildings would not get standard roof access ([01:20:04](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@01:20:04)). Wes Ayers of Ayers Design Build gave per-unit construction costs from a North Killingsworth project: about **$278,000** per unit at three floors, dropping to about **$236,000** at five floors ([02:21:01](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@02:21:01)). Anderson said allowing taller single-stair buildings could make \"in the order of tens of thousands\" of lots more developable ([02:04:36](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@02:04:36)). The presenters described a design competition with **six** student submissions from the University of Oregon, judged by a jury that included Green, with an awards ceremony May 28.\n\nPirtle-Guiney pushed back at length, saying the presentation treated single stair as a cure-all and downplayed safety trade-offs. She said \"we still have firefighters who can't move smoke to one stairwell while evacuating people down another\" and was \"very concerned that we are conflating what could be an important policy change but brings with it real risk that I think is being downplayed\" ([02:26:08](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@02:26:08)). An extended exchange over whether the per-unit savings were $10,000–$15,000 or roughly $40,000 ran between Pirtle-Guiney and the presenters ([02:18:16](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@02:18:16)). Green replied that he had no \"immediate policy goals here\" and \"rest assured, I don't have something waiting in the wings that I'm gonna plop down here\" ([02:33:37](meeting:2026-08-04-hpc-1@02:33:37)). Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) asked for contacts in Seattle or New York and for detail on sprinkler and smoke-control requirements.\n\n## What's next\n\nThe 10 foreclosure ordinances and the $35 million Section 108 loan go to full Council, with the foreclosure package reaching Council on September 9 and the committee's vote to follow; Pirtle-Guiney asked that 855 NE Church Street come forward as a standalone item. Item 2026-259 (10104 SE Harold Street) remains open in committee for later scheduling. The single-stair item was discussion only, tied by Avalos to an upcoming unified housing strategy. The committee's next meeting is Tuesday, September 1, after the Council recess.", "summaryText": "The Housing and Permitting Committee referred a $35 million federal housing loan and 10 property-foreclosure ordinances to the full City Council on 5-0 votes, then heard an hour-long presentation on single-stair building reform that drew sustained pushback from one member.\n\nThe committee, chaired by Councilor Candace Avalos (District 1) with Councilor Mitch Green (District 4) as vice chair, met August 4 with five of its members present.\n\nThe committee voted 5-0 to send Mayor Keith Wilson's ordinance appropriating a $35 million U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Section 108 award to full Council with a recommendation to pass (00:55:59). Kari Mosden of the Grants Management Division said the funds must serve households earning 0 to 80% of area median income and are aimed at preserving existing affordable housing; the city's 2023 Housing Needs Analysis identifies a need for 38,000 affordable units by 2045.\n\nAvalos and Councilor Elana Pirtle-Guiney (District 2) stressed repeatedly that the award is a loan, not a grant, and that the city is responsible for repayment. Amanda Saul of the Portland Housing Bureau said the bureau would first focus on preservation projects. Kara Hamilton of the bureau said the loan carries a floating rate — the three-month Treasury auction bill rate plus 35 basis points, \"about 4.17%, so significantly lower than a for-profit lender would be lending at\" (00:47:50) — over a 20-year term. Saul said the bureau will set aside part of its annual Community Development Block Grant entitlement as a reserve to cover any repayment gaps, and would likely cycle the funds through projects only once. Pirtle-Guiney said she was \"comfortable with that intent moving forward\" (00:52:10). Saul noted the bureau chose not to combine this money with an $8.8 million mortgage and rent buydown Council passed in April, opting to move that out quickly and treat the Section 108 fund as a later step (00:53:18). Green called the item \"this is a slam dunk for me\" (00:52:16). One person testified, reading a statement: \"home-forward-cages-people-for-profit. End-the-suffering-now.\" (00:38:38).\n\nThe committee voted 5-0 to refer 10 ordinances initiating foreclosure on properties with delinquent city liens to full Council (00:34:00). Kevin Foster, the city's Foreclosure Prevention Manager, gave updates on a package first taken up July 21. Three items were pulled back to the Mayor's Office because owners resolved their situations — one satisfied the liens, one entered a payment plan, and one, at 6307 N Montana Avenue, reported progress by email \"within the last hour\" (00:23:12). A fourth property, 10104 SE Harold Street, was held in committee at Avalos's request to give the owner's family more time; Avalos said she believed \"additional time is appropriate to allow the property owner's family to determine whether they can resolve the situation without the need for foreclosure\" (00:21:48).\n\nPirtle-Guiney asked that 855 NE Church Street not be placed on a consent agenda so she can question its status at full Council. Foster said the package reaches full Council on September 9, with the committee's vote coming later, leaving time to remove properties if owners commit (00:25:49).\n\nIn the open-comment period, two people testified. Madeline Masters, of District 2, opposed citywide upzoning, describing an old-growth bungalow near her that was \"bought privately for $450,000\" and \"now listed as a raised development site for $695,000\" (00:10:55), and cited a developer's nearby 900-square-foot houses selling for nearly $400,000 and a $64 million listing for 170 new-build homes. Lacey Sutton described stair and balcony railing safety at a Habitat for Humanity project, Cherry Blossom, saying the Design Commission required vertical railings as a condition of approval but horizontal \"ladder\" railings were installed; she said the bureau reversed a directive to replace them after news coverage (00:14:31).\n\nGreen and Avalos invited Portland Neighbors Welcome and partners to present on single-stair, or \"point access block,\" buildings — small multifamily buildings served by one staircase. Michael Anderson of the Sightline Institute said Seattle has allowed such buildings up to six stories since 1977, that Oregon added a four-story option in Appendix Q of the state building code in 2025, and that a week after Portland adopted it, the Fire Bureau said in the Daily Journal of Commerce the buildings would not get standard roof access (01:20:04). Wes Ayers of Ayers Design Build gave per-unit construction costs from a North Killingsworth project: about $278,000 per unit at three floors, dropping to about $236,000 at five floors (02:21:01). Anderson said allowing taller single-stair buildings could make \"in the order of tens of thousands\" of lots more developable (02:04:36). The presenters described a design competition with six student submissions from the University of Oregon, judged by a jury that included Green, with an awards ceremony May 28.\n\nPirtle-Guiney pushed back at length, saying the presentation treated single stair as a cure-all and downplayed safety trade-offs. She said \"we still have firefighters who can't move smoke to one stairwell while evacuating people down another\" and was \"very concerned that we are conflating what could be an important policy change but brings with it real risk that I think is being downplayed\" (02:26:08). An extended exchange over whether the per-unit savings were $10,000–$15,000 or roughly $40,000 ran between Pirtle-Guiney and the presenters (02:18:16). Green replied that he had no \"immediate policy goals here\" and \"rest assured, I don't have something waiting in the wings that I'm gonna plop down here\" (02:33:37). Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) asked for contacts in Seattle or New York and for detail on sprinkler and smoke-control requirements.\n\nThe 10 foreclosure ordinances and the $35 million Section 108 loan go to full Council, with the foreclosure package reaching Council on September 9 and the committee's vote to follow; Pirtle-Guiney asked that 855 NE Church Street come forward as a standalone item. Item 2026-259 (10104 SE Harold Street) remains open in committee for later scheduling. The single-stair item was discussion only, tied by Avalos to an upcoming unified housing strategy. The committee's next meeting is Tuesday, September 1, after the Council recess.", "summaryLede": "The Housing and Permitting Committee referred a $35 million federal housing loan and 10 property-foreclosure ordinances to the full City Council on 5-0 votes, then heard an hour-long presentation on single-stair building reform that drew sustained pushback from one member.", "sections": [ { "title": "Minutes approval", "startTime": "00:08:03.574", "endTime": "00:10:17.576", "items": [ { "title": "June 2 - June 16, 2026 Housing and Permitting Committee minutes", "startTime": "00:08:03.574", "endTime": "00:10:17.576", "agendaItemNumber": 1 } ] }, { "title": "Regular agenda", "startTime": "00:10:17.576", "endTime": "02:40:03.846", "items": [ { "title": "Housing and Permitting community feedback (Public hearing)", "startTime": "00:10:17.576", "endTime": "00:17:51.928", "agendaItemNumber": 2 }, { "title": "Initiate foreclosure actions on various properties for the collection of delinquent City Liens (Items 3-16)", "startTime": "00:17:51.928", "endTime": "00:34:34.085" }, { "title": "Appropriate grant award of $35 million for Section 108 Loan Guarantee Program (Ordinance)", "startTime": "00:34:34.085", "endTime": "00:56:30.380", "agendaItemNumber": 17 }, { "title": "PNW Single Stair Design Competition (Presentation)", "startTime": "01:15:44.219", "endTime": "02:40:03.846", "agendaItemNumber": 18 } ] } ], "cues": [ { "id": "cue-1", "start": 483.574, "end": 484.593, "text": "Good afternoon.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-2", "start": 484.787, "end": 487.957, "text": "I will call the meeting of Housing and Permitting Committee to order.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-3", "start": 488.652, "end": 491.337, "text": "It is Tuesday, August 4th at 2 PM.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-4", "start": 491.515, "end": 492.861, "text": "Diego, please call the roll.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-5", "start": 493.207, "end": 493.832, "text": "Good afternoon.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-6", "start": 494.106, "end": 494.653, "text": "Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-7", "start": 495.007, "end": 495.281, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-8", "start": 495.651, "end": 496.07, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-9", "start": 496.762, "end": 496.875, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-10", "start": 497.245, "end": 497.455, "text": "Green?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-11", "start": 498.856, "end": 498.984, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-12", "start": 499.516, "end": 499.967, "text": "Pirtle-Guiney?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-13", "start": 500.176, "end": 500.498, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-14", "start": 500.949, "end": 501.174, "text": "Avalos?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-15", "start": 501.528, "end": 501.818, "text": "Present.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-16", "start": 502.495, "end": 503.962, "text": "Claire, please read the statement of conduct.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-17", "start": 504.512, "end": 505.013, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-18", "start": 505.483, "end": 507.991, "text": "Good afternoon and welcome to the meeting of the Housing and Permitting Committee.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-19", "start": 508.395, "end": 519.286, "text": "To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at portland.gov/council/agenda/housingandpermittingcommittee or by calling 311.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-20", "start": 520.053, "end": 523.168, "text": "Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-21", "start": 523.746, "end": 526.781, "text": "In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-22", "start": 527.279, "end": 532.866, "text": "If public testimony will be taken on an item, individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the chair states otherwise.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-23", "start": 533.541, "end": 535.387, "text": "Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-24", "start": 536.029, "end": 536.912, "text": "The chair preserves order.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-25", "start": 537.25, "end": 545.021, "text": "Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-26", "start": 545.647, "end": 547.557, "text": "If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-27", "start": 548.071, "end": 550.126, "text": "Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-28", "start": 550.8, "end": 553.722, "text": "Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-29", "start": 554.332, "end": 557.302, "text": "Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-30", "start": 558.185, "end": 560.047, "text": "Your testimony should address the matter being considered.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-31", "start": 560.175, "end": 562.278, "text": "When testifying, please state your name for the record.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-32", "start": 562.776, "end": 565.168, "text": "If you are a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-33", "start": 565.649, "end": 568.876, "text": "And finally, virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-34", "start": 569.165, "end": 569.406, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-35", "start": 570.385, "end": 570.819, "text": "Thank you, Claire.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-36", "start": 571.573, "end": 573.612, "text": "We have 4 main items on our agenda.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-37", "start": 573.74, "end": 575.233, "text": "We'll have some time for public comment.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-38", "start": 575.362, "end": 579.789, "text": "Then we will do a continuation of the foreclosure properties that we discussed on July 21st.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-39", "start": 580.415, "end": 584.105, "text": "Then we will have an ordinance on housing and a housing financing grant.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-40", "start": 584.57, "end": 592.928, "text": "And after a short break, we will talk about the single stair design and hear from Portland Neighbors Welcome about a local design competition that they organized.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-41", "start": 593.634, "end": 599.955, "text": "So, but before we get to our main items, we need to adopt committee minutes for our meetings on June 2nd and June 16th.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-42", "start": 600.148, "end": 601.479, "text": "Diego, can you please read the item?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-43", "start": 602.426, "end": 608.09, "text": "Item 1, June 2nd through June 16th, 2026, Housing and Permitting Committee minutes.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-44", "start": 609.045, "end": 610.728, "text": "The minutes are approved by unanimous consent.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-45", "start": 610.776, "end": 611.715, "text": "So are there any objections?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-46", "start": 613.84, "end": 615.344, "text": "Without objection, the minutes are approved.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-47", "start": 615.409, "end": 616.622, "text": "Diego, please read the next item.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-48", "start": 617.576, "end": 623.988, "text": "Item 2, document number 2026-271, Housing and Permitting Community Feedback.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-49", "start": 624.456, "end": 629.684, "text": "All right, we will now hear from community members on their ideas or concerns or feedback regarding housing and permitting issues.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-50", "start": 630.184, "end": 631.555, "text": "Each testifier will have 3 minutes.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-51", "start": 631.763, "end": 633.16, "text": "Diego, go ahead and call the first person.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-52", "start": 635.39, "end": 637.582, "text": "First up, we have Madeline Masters.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-53", "start": 653.259, "end": 653.469, "text": "Welcome.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-54", "start": 653.55, "end": 655.175, "text": "Go ahead and introduce yourself and get started.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-55", "start": 655.76, "end": 656.263, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-56", "start": 656.491, "end": 657.807, "text": "My name is Madeline Masters.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-57", "start": 657.872, "end": 658.668, "text": "I'm in District 2.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-58", "start": 659.849, "end": 661.005, "text": "Good afternoon, councilors.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-59", "start": 661.31, "end": 663.527, "text": "I'm here to discuss unintended consequences.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-60", "start": 664.202, "end": 669.92, "text": "I'd like to give you the view from North Portland, where what you call infill smells an awful lot like urban renewal.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-61", "start": 670.45, "end": 674.691, "text": "It smells a lot like extracting value from city dwellers to enrich suburban developers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-62", "start": 675.381, "end": 676.297, "text": "It's a Trojan horse.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-63", "start": 677.55, "end": 686.979, "text": "Soon to be demolished is a landmark of my street, an old-growth bungalow with twinkling multi-pane windows listed by the city as a significant contributing historic resource.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-64", "start": 688.023, "end": 697.48, "text": "As a habitable 5-bedroom, it could be multigenerational housing, or to increase the development value, could be expanded and adapted to multifamily or even commercial use.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-65", "start": 698.22, "end": 701.248, "text": "But these possibilities are prohibited under R-2.5.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-66", "start": 702.166, "end": 708.525, "text": "To maximize value under the new zoning, the developer must demolish it, even as nearby houses and lots sit empty.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-67", "start": 709.374, "end": 710.174, "text": "Is this sustainable?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-68", "start": 711.912, "end": 717.021, "text": "Bought privately for $450,000, it is now listed as a raised development site for $695,000.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-69", "start": 718.487, "end": 727.289, "text": "The developer's other nearby projects— project features 900-square-foot houses selling for nearly $400,000, double the cost per square foot.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-70", "start": 727.979, "end": 728.734, "text": "Is this affordable?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-71", "start": 729.987, "end": 734.051, "text": "We are losing lifelong housing in a neighborhood of multigenerational households.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-72", "start": 734.324, "end": 739.03, "text": "The buyers of these new vertical units will have to sell when they can no longer take the stairs.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-73", "start": 739.704, "end": 741.23, "text": "They'll probably have to leave Portland.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-74", "start": 741.568, "end": 742.644, "text": "Is this wealth building?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-75", "start": 742.933, "end": 743.929, "text": "Is it community building?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-76", "start": 745.468, "end": 751.464, "text": "A thoughtful answer could have created a mix of ground floor and upper floor units using the existing structure with new additions.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-77", "start": 752.137, "end": 757.107, "text": "The design would show consideration of the existing neighbors and the history and aesthetics that make a neighborhood special.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-78", "start": 757.652, "end": 758.485, "text": "That's infill.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-79", "start": 759.271, "end": 769.611, "text": "But when you massively upzone the entire city or state, you don't target the areas that need investment, but areas that are stable, and you destabilize them.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-80", "start": 770.172, "end": 772.626, "text": "You discourage investment in existing structures.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-81", "start": 773.059, "end": 777.084, "text": "You encourage land speculation and demolition and vacancy.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-82", "start": 778.335, "end": 783.21, "text": "With historic structures often on larger lots, you put a bigger target on the most special properties.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-83", "start": 783.627, "end": 789.705, "text": "You take out markers of local identity and end up with the same new developments cut and pasted in every neighborhood.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-84", "start": 790.235, "end": 792.031, "text": "Is this housing diversity?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-85", "start": 793.266, "end": 799.573, "text": "There's currently a $64 million listing by one developer for a portfolio of 170 new-build homes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-86", "start": 800.231, "end": 802.142, "text": "This is who is building wealth under this scheme.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-87", "start": 802.753, "end": 803.507, "text": "Is this equitable?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-88", "start": 804.085, "end": 804.808, "text": "Is it democratic?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-89", "start": 806.012, "end": 813.704, "text": "I also question how the city is meant to support housing, housing, housing while we are losing commercial tax base and cutting schools and fire stations.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-90", "start": 814.78, "end": 819.886, "text": "But as to zoning, 6 major points which are a bit more fleshed out on the page that I shared.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-91", "start": 820.705, "end": 826.149, "text": "One, transparency is essential to market participation as well as to democracy.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-92", "start": 826.518, "end": 830.322, "text": "2, Targeted rezoning works better than sweeping changes.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-93", "start": 830.691, "end": 835.04, "text": "3, Restrict demolition but give historic preservation an upside.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-94", "start": 835.634, "end": 841.234, "text": "4, Form-based zoning and use flexibility are better incentives than bulk bonuses.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-95", "start": 841.973, "end": 843.85, "text": "5, Design for longevity.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-96", "start": 844.332, "end": 846.514, "text": "6, Aesthetics matter to everyone.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-97", "start": 847.589, "end": 849.419, "text": "Pretty neighborhoods draw taxpayers.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-98", "start": 849.724, "end": 851.505, "text": "Stable neighborhoods retain them.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-99", "start": 852.019, "end": 852.789, "text": "Please remember this.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-100", "start": 853.064, "end": 853.406, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-101", "start": 855.755, "end": 856.554, "text": "Thank you for your testimony.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-102", "start": 857.93, "end": 858.818, "text": "Diego, please call the next person.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-103", "start": 859.19, "end": 860.968, "text": "Next is Lacey Sutton.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-104", "start": 864.842, "end": 869.796, "text": "Hi, Lacey Sutton.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-105", "start": 871.26, "end": 873.995, "text": "I'd like to talk more about the balcony railings at Cherry Blossom.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-106", "start": 874.566, "end": 880.929, "text": "It's not our most pressing concern, but it's a really good example of the sort of thing your self-proclaimed biggest customer was able to get away with.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-107", "start": 881.908, "end": 893.314, "text": "Even before moving into our new homes, parents expressed concerns about having horizontal bars immediately outside the sliding glass door on the second story with concrete below, but Habitat for Humanity refused to replace them.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-108", "start": 893.94, "end": 900.421, "text": "In the years since, I have witnessed countless times children climbing these bars and felt immense frustration with such a stupid, careless design.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-109", "start": 901.351, "end": 907.704, "text": "So imagine my surprise when I discovered that the design commission had actually made vertical railings a condition of Approval.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-110", "start": 908.073, "end": 908.313, "text": "Why?", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-111", "start": 909.194, "end": 911.726, "text": "Because they shared the same concerns about horizontal bars.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-112", "start": 912.319, "end": 918.297, "text": "During the recorded hearing, a commissioner said the ladder has other problems, which is kids can actually climb and jump over them.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-113", "start": 919.435, "end": 924.146, "text": "Vertical balcony railings were a legal requirement of this build, so why do we have ladders?", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-114", "start": 925.06, "end": 936.198, "text": "By the way, the condition also states unit entry stoop safety railings shall be vertical, but some of these have horizontal railings as well, and the rest of them are just big bars with no safety railings at all.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-115", "start": 936.743, "end": 938.217, "text": "Nothing for small hands to hold on to.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-116", "start": 938.281, "end": 938.377, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-117", "start": 939.403, "end": 949.584, "text": "I've previously testified about how, following my complaint to PP&D, I was told that former Director Kuhnhausen met with CEO Steve Messinetti to discuss the things they missed.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-118", "start": 950.69, "end": 955.565, "text": "And in an exceedingly rare moment of accountability, Habitat was given directives to replace the railings.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-119", "start": 956.302, "end": 959.3, "text": "But after this made the evening news, PP&D reneged.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-120", "start": 960.39, "end": 969.536, "text": "When I asked for an explanation repeatedly for weeks, I was merely forwarded the memo the director sent to City Council, which dismissed All my concerns about Cherry Blossom.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-121", "start": 970.137, "end": 971.29, "text": "He never wrote a word to me.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-122", "start": 971.679, "end": 975.235, "text": "Why should he when he can just send out some BS he knew no one would fact-check?", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-123", "start": 976.382, "end": 982.408, "text": "On the balconies, he said, well, there was a condition in the land use review for this site stating that the railing must be vertical.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-124", "start": 982.457, "end": 984.819, "text": "This condition was related to aesthetics, not safety.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-125", "start": 987.198, "end": 992.969, "text": "The railings were shown as horizontal in the 2019 land use review, which amended the previously approved design.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-126", "start": 993.814, "end": 998.126, "text": "He's referring to the Type 2 review Habitat got for minor changes.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-127", "start": 998.303, "end": 1000.33, "text": "They weren't minor, but I digress.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-128", "start": 1001.199, "end": 1010.392, "text": "It didn't even mention railings because a single staffer could not and did not amend a condition of approval decided upon by the Design Commission during a Type 3 review.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-129", "start": 1011.099, "end": 1013.534, "text": "The idea that an architect's drawing could do that is absurd.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-130", "start": 1014.79, "end": 1018.307, "text": "To amend this condition, Habitat would have had to get another Type 3 review.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-131", "start": 1019.02, "end": 1021.922, "text": "Here's a PP&D supervisor telling them this via email in 20—.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-132", "start": 1021.938, "end": 1022.246, "text": "2019.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-133", "start": 1022.879, "end": 1023.313, "text": "19.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-134", "start": 1023.987, "end": 1028.147, "text": "Any condition of approval not met would require a follow-up Type 3 DZ.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-135", "start": 1028.227, "end": 1032.226, "text": "Please meet all conditions of approval so another Type 3 DZ is not required.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-136", "start": 1033.045, "end": 1041.22, "text": "But then, like so many things that were required for Cherry Blossom Habitat, just didn't do it, and the city just signed off on it, and there were zero consequences.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-137", "start": 1041.975, "end": 1048.736, "text": "Unless a kid falls, I guess, or until a tree falls on a house, or there's a fire, then there will be consequences.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-138", "start": 1048.784, "end": 1049.025, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-139", "start": 1053.33, "end": 1054.521, "text": "That concludes testimony.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-140", "start": 1055.422, "end": 1059.363, "text": "Thank you again for folks for testifying in front of us today.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-141", "start": 1060.232, "end": 1062.628, "text": "Always an opportunity to share your experience at committee.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-142", "start": 1063.529, "end": 1069.24, "text": "Um, Diego, go ahead and call the next item, or actually, um, please open items 3 through 16.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-143", "start": 1071.928, "end": 1083.24, "text": "Item 3, document number 2026-247, initiate foreclosure action on 7545 Northeast Sandy Boulevard for the collection of delinquent delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-144", "start": 1083.69, "end": 1096.05, "text": "Item 4, document number 2026-248, initiate foreclosure action on 7545 WI/Northeast Sandy Boulevard for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-145", "start": 1096.05, "end": 1107.89, "text": "Item 5, document number 2026-249, initiate foreclosure action on 6307 North Montana Ave for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-146", "start": 1107.89, "end": 1118.022, "text": "Item 6, document number 2026-250, initiate foreclosure action on North Columbia Boulevard for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-147", "start": 1118.458, "end": 1131.517, "text": "Item 7, document number 2026-252, initiate foreclosure action on 7250 Northeast Sandy Boulevard— excuse me, Northeast Lombard Street for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-148", "start": 1132.078, "end": 1137.447, "text": "Item 8, document number 2026-253, initiate foreclosure action on 7101—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-149", "start": 1137.447, "end": 1138.244, "text": "7101.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-150", "start": 1139.34, "end": 1144.98, "text": "7103 Southeast Division Street for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-151", "start": 1145.2, "end": 1156.44, "text": "Item 9, document number 2026-254, initiate foreclosure action on 1625 Southeast 35th Ave for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-152", "start": 1156.44, "end": 1168.79, "text": "Item 10, document number 2026-255, initiate foreclosure action on 2706 Southeast 122nd Ave for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-153", "start": 1169.1, "end": 1182.58, "text": "Item 11, document number 2026-256, initiate foreclosure action on 2734-2738 Northeast Alberta Street for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-154", "start": 1182.64, "end": 1194.32, "text": "Item 12, document number 2026-257, initiate foreclosure action on 4324 Southeast 65th Ave for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-155", "start": 1194.64, "end": 1206.64, "text": "Item 13, document number 2026-258, initiate foreclosure action on 6627 Southeast Woodstock Boulevard for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-156", "start": 1206.64, "end": 1219.34, "text": "Item 14, document number 2026-259, initiate foreclosure action on 10104 Southeast Herald Street for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-157", "start": 1219.34, "end": 1230.485, "text": "Item 15, document number 2026-261, initiate foreclosure action on 5706 Southeast Lambert Street for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-158", "start": 1230.92, "end": 1241.454, "text": "Item 16, document number 2026-261, initiate foreclosure action on 855 Northeast Church Street for the collection of delinquent city liens placed against the property.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-159", "start": 1245.037, "end": 1246.284, "text": "Thank you, Diego.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-160", "start": 1246.997, "end": 1249.458, "text": "All right, give me one quick second, folks.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-161", "start": 1249.733, "end": 1265.928, "text": "I am clarifying okay, so at the mayor's request, we are withdrawing 2 items from the agenda and referring these back to the mayor's office.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-162", "start": 1266.41, "end": 1276.513, "text": "That is item 9, document 2026-254, property located at 1635 Southeast 35th Avenue, where the owner has satisfied the balance owed on the liens.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-163", "start": 1276.564, "end": 1276.666, "text": "So moved.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-164", "start": 1276.717, "end": 1276.819, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-165", "start": 1276.87, "end": 1276.972, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-166", "start": 1277.504, "end": 1290.34, "text": "And item 10, document 2026-255, property located at 2706 Southeast 122nd Avenue where the owner has closed their open case and entered into a payment plan.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-167", "start": 1292.11, "end": 1302.414, "text": "Additionally, before we take on the remaining items, I'd like to note that I will not be calling for a vote today on item 14, document 2026-256.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-168", "start": 1306.193, "end": 1306.306, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-169", "start": 1308.293, "end": 1320.142, "text": "Based on information that has recently come to my attention, I believe additional time is appropriate to allow the property owner's family to determine whether they can resolve the situation without the need for foreclosure.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-170", "start": 1320.239, "end": 1323.899, "text": "And we can ask questions on that if you'd like.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-171", "start": 1325.016, "end": 1335.765, "text": "And then as a reminder, we continued this ordinance package to allow more time for committee member questions about specific properties that are eligible for foreclosure under city administrative rule.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-172", "start": 1335.957, "end": 1348.101, "text": "So I will ask Kevin Foster, our Foreclosure Prevention Manager, to provide us with any updates on the properties and potential resolution, and then we will open it up to committee questions and discussion.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-173", "start": 1348.373, "end": 1349.849, "text": "So with that, take it away.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-174", "start": 1350.475, "end": 1355.239, "text": "All right, good afternoon, Chair Avalos, Vice Chair Green, and the Housing Committee.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-175", "start": 1355.982, "end": 1361.958, "text": "For the record, I'll state my name, Kevin Foster, Foreclosure Prevention Manager for the city.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-176", "start": 1367.76, "end": 1372.232, "text": "Okay, as we discussed, these are the 2 properties that were removed within the last 2 weeks.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-177", "start": 1374.66, "end": 1381.727, "text": "So actually, we're taking off one more today, so there's actually going to be 11 properties that we're moving forward with.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-178", "start": 1384.699, "end": 1389.415, "text": "All right, and where would you like me to start?", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-179", "start": 1389.643, "end": 1390.358, "text": "Yeah, Chair Avalos.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-180", "start": 1392.296, "end": 1392.555, "text": "Wherever.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-181", "start": 1392.62, "end": 1394.27, "text": "Just— okay, okay.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-182", "start": 1394.319, "end": 1400.483, "text": "So this is the, um, this property, 7545 Northeast Sandy Boulevard.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-183", "start": 1401.312, "end": 1402.685, "text": "Um, we went over it last week.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-184", "start": 1402.749, "end": 1407.595, "text": "There's been no engagement with the owner, um, or any of the parties of interest.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-185", "start": 1408.701, "end": 1415.423, "text": "Um, in the last 2 weeks, I did speak with one party of interest like I told you last time, and they told me there's nothing they can really do.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-186", "start": 1416.24, "end": 1420.328, "text": "Um, so of course this is why it's remaining on the list.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-187", "start": 1424.314, "end": 1444.689, "text": "Now this property, 6307 North Montana Avenue, we received an email within the last hour, and they've been able to— the attorney that's working with the lender they've been able to get closer to resolving the property, resolving the issues at the property and getting a certificate of occupancy and certificate of completion.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-188", "start": 1445.031, "end": 1447.014, "text": "So this one we won't be moving forward with.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-189", "start": 1451.32, "end": 1462.315, "text": "So I think what I'm going to do is, because I've already gone through the presentation with you guys before, if we could just get to some— maybe you guys have specific questions about properties.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-190", "start": 1463.819, "end": 1464.911, "text": "And I could just go from there.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-191", "start": 1468.44, "end": 1469.036, "text": "All right, sounds good.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-192", "start": 1469.44, "end": 1471.456, "text": "We will kick it off with Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-193", "start": 1472.747, "end": 1474.441, "text": "Thank you, Chair, and thank you for being back.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-194", "start": 1474.506, "end": 1478.798, "text": "There were 2 properties I had asked questions about the previous time you were here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-195", "start": 1478.862, "end": 1484.45, "text": "It sounds like one of them, 10104 Southeast Herald, we're not moving forward today.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-196", "start": 1485.277, "end": 1488.084, "text": "The other was 855 Northeast Church Street.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-197", "start": 1489.109, "end": 1504.404, "text": "You told us a few weeks ago that the property owner there had plans for the property but hadn't been able to provide any proof of engagement with a contractor or anything else to show you that they were moving forward with those plans.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-198", "start": 1505.03, "end": 1507.569, "text": "Have there been any updates over the last few weeks?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-199", "start": 1507.617, "end": 1515.039, "text": "Have they been able to produce anything, or are we still in a situation where they are reporting plans but not able to give you any concrete information?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-200", "start": 1515.152, "end": 1516.369, "text": "To show those moving forward?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-201", "start": 1516.834, "end": 1520.551, "text": "Yes, right now we're still in that same state, but she is out of town right now.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-202", "start": 1521.465, "end": 1524.814, "text": "Um, so that's why one of the reasons when I spoke with her last, she was out of town.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-203", "start": 1525.31, "end": 1528.146, "text": "I believe she comes back either late this week or next week.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-204", "start": 1528.227, "end": 1536.158, "text": "Uh, I wanted her to have the contractor just call me just so I could speak with someone and, and get this removed from the list, but we haven't been able to do that yet.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-205", "start": 1537.648, "end": 1549.552, "text": "Do you think that she'll have sufficient time between when this moves out of committee and when it moves to to full council to be able to be in touch with you, given what you know about her schedule and her ability to have her contractors in touch.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-206", "start": 1549.777, "end": 1550.002, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-207", "start": 1550.259, "end": 1554.208, "text": "And the good thing about it is that once it goes to— it's not going to full council until September 9th.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-208", "start": 1554.674, "end": 1558.463, "text": "We still have a month until then, but you won't be voting that date either.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-209", "start": 1558.849, "end": 1560.471, "text": "So you won't vote on the 9th as well.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-210", "start": 1560.535, "end": 1562.767, "text": "You guys vote like, I think, 2 weeks or a week later.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-211", "start": 1563.73, "end": 1567.439, "text": "So we still have time to remove it if we're able to get some commitment from her.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-212", "start": 1568.467, "end": 1579.958, "text": "Chair, given that timeline, and I think there's been more clarity in what the city needs from this property owner since we first met, I am comfortable moving this one forward today.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-213", "start": 1581.002, "end": 1587.197, "text": "I would ask that as you have conversations with the council president, these not be put on the consent agenda.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-214", "start": 1587.245, "end": 1593.537, "text": "I don't know if that's something he's been planning for or not, because I would like the opportunity to ask about this property again at full council.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-215", "start": 1593.601, "end": 1593.745, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-216", "start": 1593.81, "end": 1596.758, "text": "Council with the hopes that there are some updates within the next month.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-217", "start": 1597.466, "end": 1600.817, "text": "Remind me the document number for the property you're mentioning.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-218", "start": 1601.413, "end": 1602.879, "text": "Let me find it on the list.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-219", "start": 1602.927, "end": 1605.662, "text": "I apologize, I was looking at the address.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-220", "start": 1606.628, "end": 1610.311, "text": "It is— give me just a moment— uh, 16.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-221", "start": 1611.243, "end": 1614.36, "text": "Oh, okay.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-222", "start": 1614.521, "end": 1617.027, "text": "This is the one that we're talking about, the same property?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-223", "start": 1617.573, "end": 1619.164, "text": "Is that what we're—.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-224", "start": 1619.164, "end": 1625.397, "text": "I thought you had said that you were pulling document 14, um, 9, 10, and 5 off the list.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-225", "start": 1625.478, "end": 1629.604, "text": "I don't know if my numbers are correct, so tell me the document number.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-226", "start": 1629.97, "end": 1632.621, "text": "Oh, uh, 2026-261.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-227", "start": 1632.751, "end": 1633.769, "text": "Okay, 261.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-228", "start": 1633.818, "end": 1636.001, "text": "Yeah, that's why it's, it's numbered differently on my end.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-229", "start": 1636.082, "end": 1639.817, "text": "So that one you are saying you would like to move forward with, is what I'm hearing?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-230", "start": 1639.866, "end": 1646.836, "text": "That one I'm saying— I assume we are moving these forward today, and if so, I had raised concerns about this property.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-231", "start": 1646.917, "end": 1665.532, "text": "What I'm sharing is that if you are hoping to move all of these forward today, I'm comfortable moving this forward with that, but would ask that it come to council in such form that I can ask questions about whether progress has been made over the next month when we're at full council.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-232", "start": 1665.596, "end": 1683.142, "text": "So if you are having conversations with the council president about either a consent agenda or bulking items for a vote at council, I would ask that this not be included in any actions like that and that it come forward as a standalone item where I'll have the opportunity to check in on any progress.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-233", "start": 1685.071, "end": 1685.789, "text": "Great, sounds good.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-234", "start": 1686.391, "end": 1686.842, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-235", "start": 1690.278, "end": 1691.967, "text": "Committee, any other questions?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-236", "start": 1696.61, "end": 1696.773, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-237", "start": 1698.862, "end": 1700.478, "text": "Was there anything further you wanted to share?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-238", "start": 1702.437, "end": 1703.113, "text": "No, that's all I had.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-239", "start": 1703.275, "end": 1704.032, "text": "Okay, great.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-240", "start": 1704.789, "end": 1709.172, "text": "Well then, in that case, I'm just trying to get the right language up here.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-241", "start": 1710.1, "end": 1719.566, "text": "So like I said last time, we are able to move them in bulk, and what I'm going to do is I'm going to name all of the properties as was stated.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-242", "start": 1719.615, "end": 1720.212, "text": "Let me just check.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-243", "start": 1720.342, "end": 1727.963, "text": "1, 2— Okay, yeah, so 11 total properties that I will read.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-244", "start": 1728.54, "end": 1729.518, "text": "Are we on the same page about that?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-245", "start": 1730.223, "end": 1730.463, "text": "Yes?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-246", "start": 1731.233, "end": 1732.099, "text": "No, 10 properties.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-247", "start": 1732.547, "end": 1735.337, "text": "Okay, we're not on the same page.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-248", "start": 1735.577, "end": 1737.148, "text": "Let's figure out what the discrepancy is.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-249", "start": 1738.046, "end": 1770.86, "text": "I have— why don't I— so the numbers that I have that we are approving today or moving forward, I'm going to list them: 247, 248, 249, 250, 252, 253, Chair, I think, and Kevin can clarify, item 5, which is 2026-249, is the 6307 Montana.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-250", "start": 1770.86, "end": 1776.3, "text": "And that one you are asking be referred back to the mayor's office, meaning the committee does not need to take action, correct?", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-251", "start": 1776.3, "end": 1776.36, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Lacey Sutton" }, { "id": "cue-252", "start": 1776.36, "end": 1778.76, "text": "So are there 3 that are getting referred back to the mayor's office?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-253", "start": 1778.89, "end": 1779.24, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-254", "start": 1779.24, "end": 1780.48, "text": "'Cause on my list I only have 2.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-255", "start": 1780.5, "end": 1782.701, "text": "Yeah, this just came in within the last hour.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-256", "start": 1782.958, "end": 1788.501, "text": "Okay, so 2— and the numbering's off, so don't tell me the number of the item, tell me the actual number of the item.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-257", "start": 1788.566, "end": 1789.417, "text": "So 249.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-258", "start": 1789.771, "end": 1791.185, "text": "Chair, point of information, I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-259", "start": 1791.844, "end": 1799.508, "text": "Um, you all are talking about 3 items being referred back to the mayor's office, but I thought you had said there were 4 not moving forward.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-260", "start": 1799.572, "end": 1801.549, "text": "Could you help us understand what the 4th item is?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-261", "start": 1801.838, "end": 1806.385, "text": "So the 3 that are not moving forward were— are from the mayor.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-262", "start": 1806.786, "end": 1811.903, "text": "259 Is going to just live in limbo, essentially, is what I'm understanding.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-263", "start": 1812.096, "end": 1817.18, "text": "It's— it'll be lit— it'll be in committee, stay open, and can be scheduled at a later date.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-264", "start": 1818.094, "end": 1827.269, "text": "Um, we did consult with the city attorney on this, Chair, and the advice we got is— so it's a little bit different than the other 3 that are being referred back to the mayor's office.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-265", "start": 1827.333, "end": 1846.935, "text": "So effectively, with unanimous consent from the committee, you can continue the item to a future to-be-determined date that you don't need to state that keeps it alive, but it would not— that item 250— sorry, 2026-259 would not be moving on with the package to Council at that September date.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-266", "start": 1847.498, "end": 1860.187, "text": "So should we understand as committee members that the other 3 are being removed because of actions that have taken place with the administrative office and that this one is being removed for other reasons?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-267", "start": 1860.3, "end": 1863.426, "text": "It's being delayed, so that's why it's not being removed.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-268", "start": 1863.474, "end": 1865.013, "text": "It's still going to be on the committee docket.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-269", "start": 1865.061, "end": 1868.155, "text": "The other 3 are getting officially removed from the list.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-270", "start": 1868.812, "end": 1874.551, "text": "259 will stay technically on the list and just kind of live in limbo while we give that homeowner some time.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-271", "start": 1874.599, "end": 1880.274, "text": "We've gotten some information that they need some more time, and then we can put it on another committee agenda in the future.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-272", "start": 1880.611, "end": 1893.263, "text": "And is that the recommendation of the administration, or is this an action that you're asking for separate from I think I misunderstood and thought that this was an ask from the administration as well.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-273", "start": 1893.954, "end": 1895.079, "text": "It is an ask from me.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-274", "start": 1896.242, "end": 1898.715, "text": "Am I correct that that's how we're phrasing it?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-275", "start": 1900.81, "end": 1901.803, "text": "Let me check with my team.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-276", "start": 1905.666, "end": 1911.625, "text": "Okay, the info that we received was from Mr. Foster, but this is my request.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-277", "start": 1913.802, "end": 1914.285, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-278", "start": 1915.185, "end": 1920.922, "text": "Okay, questions on that or thoughts on that?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-279", "start": 1921.983, "end": 1931.38, "text": "Like I said, it is simply being delayed to be put on another agenda once we get more information because we've— they've been in touch and they need more time is what we were told.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-280", "start": 1931.993, "end": 1938.125, "text": "Yeah, okay, so to confirm, 249 is what I need to cross off my list?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-281", "start": 1939.204, "end": 1944.663, "text": "249, 254, And 255 are the ones that are pulled back by the mayor's office, correct?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-282", "start": 1945.852, "end": 1946.349, "text": "That's correct.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-283", "start": 1946.606, "end": 1949.85, "text": "Okay, so let me cross this out so I don't get confused.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-284", "start": 1950.267, "end": 1955.887, "text": "Um, and so then therefore there will be 10, as we said, because we took that off.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-285", "start": 1956.064, "end": 1956.256, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-286", "start": 1957.011, "end": 1963.658, "text": "Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and move forward with, uh, entertaining a motion unless there are other questions or discussion.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-287", "start": 1964.094, "end": 1964.452, "text": "On this.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-288", "start": 1966.276, "end": 1970.088, "text": "Okay, so I am going to entertain a motion to move the following ordinances.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-289", "start": 1971.716, "end": 2006.68, "text": "Um, document number 2026-247, document number 2026-248, 2026-250, 2026-252, 2026-253, 2026-256, 2026-257, 2026-258, 2026-260, and 2026-261 to the full council with a recommendation to pass.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-290", "start": 2007.73, "end": 2009.74, "text": "So I entertained a motion, so I need somebody to move it.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-291", "start": 2010.77, "end": 2011.59, "text": "So moved.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-292", "start": 2011.59, "end": 2013.65, "text": "Okay, moved by Vice Chair Green.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-293", "start": 2013.65, "end": 2014.14, "text": "Do I have a second?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-294", "start": 2014.31, "end": 2014.33, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-295", "start": 2014.33, "end": 2016.13, "text": "Seconded by Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-296", "start": 2016.13, "end": 2017.39, "text": "Okay, any further discussion?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-297", "start": 2019.914, "end": 2020.894, "text": "Okay, please call the roll.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-298", "start": 2029.286, "end": 2029.334, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-299", "start": 2031.777, "end": 2031.825, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-300", "start": 2033.304, "end": 2033.384, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-301", "start": 2034.991, "end": 2035.152, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-302", "start": 2036.357, "end": 2036.454, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-303", "start": 2037.321, "end": 2070.91, "text": "With 5 ayes, the motion carries, and the ordinances, document number 2026-247, 2026-248, 2026-250, 2026-252, 2026-253, 2026-256, 2026-257, 2026-258, 2026-260, 2026-261 will move to the full council with the recommendation they be passed.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-304", "start": 2072.061, "end": 2072.321, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-305", "start": 2072.369, "end": 2073.114, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Pastor.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-306", "start": 2074.086, "end": 2075.203, "text": "Diego, please read the next item.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-307", "start": 2079.005, "end": 2091.419, "text": "Item 17, document number 2026-272, appropriate grant award of $35 million for Section 108 Loan Guarantee Program.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-308", "start": 2093.049, "end": 2101.913, "text": "All right, so this ordinance appropriates award funds from HUD Section 108 Loan Guarantee Program for the city's use in supporting regulated affordable housing.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-309", "start": 2102.41, "end": 2111.697, "text": "The funds must serve households earning 0 to 80% AMI and can be used for property acquisition, conversion, or rehabilitation of existing affordable housing properties.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-310", "start": 2112.147, "end": 2116.397, "text": "So I will go ahead and hand it off to our colleagues in the Grants Office and the Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-311", "start": 2117.584, "end": 2117.793, "text": "Go ahead.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-312", "start": 2118.13, "end": 2118.9, "text": "Good afternoon.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-313", "start": 2119.172, "end": 2120.552, "text": "Can you hear me okay?", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-314", "start": 2121.594, "end": 2121.835, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-315", "start": 2122.076, "end": 2123.134, "text": "My name is Kari Mosden.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-316", "start": 2123.198, "end": 2124.546, "text": "I'm with the Grants Management Division.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-317", "start": 2124.626, "end": 2128.251, "text": "I'm stepping in for Sheila Craig, who was taken away today.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-318", "start": 2128.57, "end": 2128.968, "text": "Not taken away.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-319", "start": 2129.037, "end": 2129.763, "text": "That's the wrong language.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-320", "start": 2131.25, "end": 2132.416, "text": "Pulled aside for other things today.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-321", "start": 2133.84, "end": 2142.546, "text": "So budget appropriation ordinance for the item that you just mentioned, appropriating the award for Section 108 Loan Guarantee Program for $35 million.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-322", "start": 2145.983, "end": 2147.454, "text": "Let me get— there we go.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-323", "start": 2148.748, "end": 2152.726, "text": "So this, as you have just outlined, I will just say again what you've just said.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-324", "start": 2152.774, "end": 2160.172, "text": "The ordinance amendment amends the budget to appropriate funds awarded by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development into the grants fund.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-325", "start": 2160.909, "end": 2169.578, "text": "This grant application with SAP ID HC204 was submitted on July 1st, 2025.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-326", "start": 2170.443, "end": 2178.247, "text": "HUD notified the city of the Section 108 Affordable Housing Loan Fund award to the city in the amount of $35 million.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-327", "start": 2178.295, "end": 2184.208, "text": "Typically with awards, there is a period of performance, but there is not one with this award agreement that has been specified.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-328", "start": 2184.273, "end": 2184.449, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-329", "start": 2185.026, "end": 2189.181, "text": "And the Housing Bureau expects to fund a pipeline of projects over a 5-year period.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-330", "start": 2189.775, "end": 2201.695, "text": "First loan may close as early as the end of 2027, meaning the repayment period would then run from 12/2027 to 12/2052, which is 20 years from the date of the final loan closing.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-331", "start": 2202.931, "end": 2210.118, "text": "The award does not require any matching funds, and it is intended to supplement, not replace existing city revenues.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-332", "start": 2212.088, "end": 2216.459, "text": "I'll just do a high-level overview of what the award will fund.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-333", "start": 2217.156, "end": 2225.414, "text": "It's seeking to support the creation of an affordable housing loan fund targeted to projects that create or preserve housing affordability to low- and moderate-income households.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-334", "start": 2226.185, "end": 2240.89, "text": "The proposed affordable housing loan fund seeks to address Portland's need to add 38,000 units of affordable housing to households earning 0 to 80% AMI by 2045, as described in the city's 2023 Housing Needs Analysis.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-335", "start": 2242.012, "end": 2254.174, "text": "The Portland Housing Bureau is in the process of developing a recommended spending plan as well as investment requirements and preferences for an upcoming solicitation for funding requests to use these Section 108 funds.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-336", "start": 2255.247, "end": 2285.202, "text": "And generally, Section 108 funds can fund the following types of projects: rehabilitation of existing regulated affordable rental housing and units owned by low and moderate income homeowners, acquisition and rehabilitation of existing office or residential buildings for conversion to affordable housing, and activities to facilitate new affordable housing development, including land acquisition, clearance, site preparation, infrastructure remediation, relocation, or other eligible uses.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-337", "start": 2286.277, "end": 2291.538, "text": "That is the end of my presentation, and I welcome questions about the award.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-338", "start": 2291.603, "end": 2291.779, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-339", "start": 2292.42, "end": 2293.641, "text": "Process itself.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-340", "start": 2294.058, "end": 2299.858, "text": "We have some folks from the Housing Bureau if there are, uh, PHB-specific questions as well.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-341", "start": 2300.324, "end": 2300.437, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-342", "start": 2300.485, "end": 2303.184, "text": "Before we do that, um, do we have folks to sign up to testify?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-343", "start": 2306.384, "end": 2308.165, "text": "We have one individual signed up.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-344", "start": 2309.784, "end": 2310.335, "text": "Would you like me to—.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-345", "start": 2310.578, "end": 2314.991, "text": "Without objection, are we okay to take that person and then come back to questions, committee?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-346", "start": 2315.09, "end": 2315.949, "text": "Okay, let's go ahead.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-347", "start": 2318.169, "end": 2323.827, "text": "Um, home-forward-cages-people-for-profit.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-348", "start": 2324.746, "end": 2327.924, "text": "End-the-suffering-now.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-349", "start": 2337.164, "end": 2338.033, "text": "That concludes testimony.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-350", "start": 2340.079, "end": 2343.509, "text": "All right, well then we'll go ahead with questions in the queue, starting with Councilor Koyama Lane.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-351", "start": 2345.508, "end": 2346.423, "text": "Thank you for being here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-352", "start": 2347.274, "end": 2355.591, "text": "First, I wanted to say thank you and congratulations to the staff at PHB for working on this, for the work in securing the funding.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-353", "start": 2356.168, "end": 2363.313, "text": "I understand that these are long processes and appreciate the hard work and public engagement and dedication to this.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-354", "start": 2363.554, "end": 2364.517, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-355", "start": 2365.159, "end": 2369.815, "text": "Wondering if we can hear a little bit more about the types of eligible projects.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-356", "start": 2370.713, "end": 2380.68, "text": "Looking to support through the Affordable Housing Loan Fund and also the outreach plan to— and how— what the intention is to let partners know more about this.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-357", "start": 2381.049, "end": 2381.449, "text": "Absolutely.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-358", "start": 2381.673, "end": 2385.664, "text": "I'll rely on my colleague Amanda Saul from the Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-359", "start": 2386.962, "end": 2387.955, "text": "Good afternoon, everyone.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-360", "start": 2388.003, "end": 2389.862, "text": "I'm Amanda Saul with Portland Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-361", "start": 2390.423, "end": 2391.272, "text": "Thanks for your question.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-362", "start": 2391.865, "end": 2396.047, "text": "I think we're still working on figuring out our implementation process.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-363", "start": 2396.676, "end": 2408.38, "text": "I think initially we will focus our— focus the funding on preservation of existing affordable housing projects because that's where we're seeing the most need in the community right now.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-364", "start": 2410.713, "end": 2413.814, "text": "So those are ones that are already in the process of—.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-365", "start": 2414.168, "end": 2426.059, "text": "Those are ones that are already— that already have affordable housing restrictions and may have had, you know, renters living in them for 20 or 40 years, and it's time to do a big rehab.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-366", "start": 2426.516, "end": 2434.325, "text": "Replace the roof, replace the HVAC system, sort of do a whole rehab plus financial restructure.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-367", "start": 2434.79, "end": 2438.078, "text": "And that's what these funds are often used for.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-368", "start": 2438.719, "end": 2445.679, "text": "And will PH be going out to do outreach to figure out those, or partners can come and say, hey, what about us?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-369", "start": 2446.096, "end": 2451.179, "text": "Yeah, we, we often, when we allocate our funding, do a solicitation process.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-370", "start": 2452.093, "end": 2462.565, "text": "And so We will create a solicitation that says these are our goals and priorities for this funding, and then people will, will bring us their projects and apply.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-371", "start": 2463.336, "end": 2463.979, "text": "Great, thank you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-372", "start": 2464.301, "end": 2464.558, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-373", "start": 2466.631, "end": 2468.286, "text": "All right, I am next in the queue.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-374", "start": 2468.398, "end": 2469.089, "text": "Thanks again.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-375", "start": 2470.005, "end": 2484.52, "text": "We all know that Portland is continuing to face a significant shortage of affordable housing, and one of the biggest barriers to getting projects built or preserved is access to So I see today's ordinance as adding another financial tool to our toolbox.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-376", "start": 2485.227, "end": 2495.131, "text": "And this action, while it appropriates the $35 million federal award, it's important that we remember that the Section 8— Section 108 program is not a traditional grant.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-377", "start": 2495.179, "end": 2501.569, "text": "So it's only allowing the city to borrow federally guaranteed funds and then relend them to affordable housing projects over time.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-378", "start": 2501.633, "end": 2508.633, "text": "So I do think that used responsibly, this can help stretch our local resources and make more affordable housing projects financially feasible.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-379", "start": 2508.762, "end": 2518.366, "text": "But at the same time, because the city is ultimately responsible for repayment, I think it's important that we understand how PHB plans to manage both the opportunities and the risks with the program.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-380", "start": 2518.414, "end": 2523.312, "text": "So you mentioned that PHB previously operated a Section 108 loan fund.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-381", "start": 2523.361, "end": 2528.966, "text": "Can you just talk me through what lessons from that experience are informing how this new program is going to be structured?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-382", "start": 2529.624, "end": 2531.021, "text": "Yeah, thank you for your question.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-383", "start": 2531.391, "end": 2534.729, "text": "I appreciate that you made it also very clear that this is a loan.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-384", "start": 2534.842, "end": 2537.361, "text": "This is not a grant to the city.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-385", "start": 2537.505, "end": 2538.837, "text": "This is a loan to the city.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-386", "start": 2539.976, "end": 2558.7, "text": "And so one of the things we're thinking about structuring this time is that we loan these funds to the project at the same interest rate and with the same term that matches the loan from HUD to the city so that repayment is more assured.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-387", "start": 2559.567, "end": 2560.947, "text": "In addition to that, we will—.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-388", "start": 2560.947, "end": 2561.139, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Rebecca Dobert" }, { "id": "cue-389", "start": 2561.814, "end": 2573.528, "text": "We plan to set aside part of our annual CDBG entitlement that comes to the city to help fund any gaps that might happen or lags in payment from the borrowers.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-390", "start": 2575.658, "end": 2581.999, "text": "And how do you envision this financing tool complementing PHP's existing affordable housing programs rather than duplicating them?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-391", "start": 2582.903, "end": 2597.07, "text": "Yeah, so, um, I think it could I think, you know, I could imagine this complementing PSEF funds to do preservation projects.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-392", "start": 2597.248, "end": 2601.306, "text": "So it's providing a low-interest loan, less than what the market provides.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-393", "start": 2601.74, "end": 2606.774, "text": "And in addition to that, some PSEF funds that support specific energy upgrades.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-394", "start": 2611.195, "end": 2613.292, "text": "I might have forgotten the second part of your question.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-395", "start": 2613.34, "end": 2613.535, "text": "I'm sorry.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-396", "start": 2613.633, "end": 2620.93, "text": "I was just curious if you could talk about yeah, I was just asking in general how we felt that we were complementing our existing programs.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-397", "start": 2621.106, "end": 2621.827, "text": "Yeah, thanks.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-398", "start": 2622.965, "end": 2636.378, "text": "Traditionally, PHB provides cash flow contingent subordinate loans to its— to our affordable housing projects, and those funds recycle over time.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-399", "start": 2637.387, "end": 2642.925, "text": "And this will be just like a little bit different because It will be a loan instead of a cash flow contingent loan.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-400", "start": 2643.51, "end": 2645.768, "text": "It'll be a hard debt, likely in first position.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-401", "start": 2647.388, "end": 2655.327, "text": "And so traditionally, PHB's funding is sort of behind your first mortgage position.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-402", "start": 2655.44, "end": 2658.273, "text": "So it's layered with that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-403", "start": 2658.823, "end": 2663.986, "text": "And in this case, the Section 108 Loan Guarantee Program will take the first position.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-404", "start": 2664.519, "end": 2669.559, "text": "So it doesn't allow for quite as many layering opportunities other than funds like PSF.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-405", "start": 2671.724, "end": 2677.718, "text": "And what gap in the current affordable housing financing market do you believe this loan fund is intended to fill?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-406", "start": 2679.112, "end": 2692.769, "text": "I think we've come through a period of having Portland and Metro bond funds for many years, which helped to create thousands of new affordable units in our community.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-407", "start": 2693.513, "end": 2711.784, "text": "And now we've allocated all of those and so this $35 million from HUD will help fill that gap to preserve our existing projects from sort of this period of new construction that we've been in to until we have our next housing resource.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-408", "start": 2713.818, "end": 2714.401, "text": "Thank you so much.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-409", "start": 2714.45, "end": 2725.832, "text": "Yeah, again, I think it's just important that the city, because we're ultimately responsible for repayment, that we're just seeing how we're managing yes.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-410", "start": 2725.945, "end": 2727.327, "text": "And of course ongoing oversight.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-411", "start": 2727.407, "end": 2739.862, "text": "So I'll be interested to track how this program is performing over time, both in terms of the affordable homes that it helps create and preserve, or how effectively it's leveraging the federal financing while protecting the city's financial interests.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-412", "start": 2739.926, "end": 2746.735, "text": "But appreciate the work that's gone into securing this opportunity, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it helps our affordable housing goals.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-413", "start": 2748.12, "end": 2750.166, "text": "Next up, we've got Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-414", "start": 2751.197, "end": 2765.227, "text": "Thank you, Chair, and thank you for moving us into that line of questioning about how this— we are calling it a grant in this posting, but it's really a loan— will actually work for the city.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-415", "start": 2767.022, "end": 2772.982, "text": "I want to dig into a few things that you all said in response to questions asked by the Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-416", "start": 2774.978, "end": 2777.425, "text": "And, and a few things in the presentation itself.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-417", "start": 2777.473, "end": 2783.115, "text": "So in the presentation, you say that you expect to fund a pipeline of projects over a 5-year period.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-418", "start": 2784.203, "end": 2785.357, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-419", "start": 2785.52, "end": 2809.563, "text": "So with the repayment that we will have to make of this loan, is the goal to only cycle through these funds one time before we have to repay them, or is the hope that we will fund projects be repaid on the loans for those projects and then be able to fund additional projects and get a few cycles through before we need to repay the federal government?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-420", "start": 2810.061, "end": 2821.638, "text": "Yeah, I, I think that we will only be able to get through one cycle, but I would have to like dig into the loan agreement with HUD to be able to understand that a little bit better.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-421", "start": 2822.023, "end": 2837.027, "text": "Okay, and you said that the The loans will be given from the city to local either developers or owners at whatever the terms are that we receive.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-422", "start": 2837.107, "end": 2842.748, "text": "So what is that term and at what interest rate will we be lending this money?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-423", "start": 2843.501, "end": 2850.279, "text": "Yeah, it's floating and it's based on indices that HUD sets.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-424", "start": 2850.873, "end": 2853.443, "text": "And so I can't tell you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-425", "start": 2853.925, "end": 2858.421, "text": "Can you tell us the range just so that we know what to expect here?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-426", "start": 2858.742, "end": 2862.934, "text": "Yeah, sorry, my subject matter expert is coming up to help me.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-427", "start": 2863.239, "end": 2865.391, "text": "Fantastic.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-428", "start": 2865.648, "end": 2870.386, "text": "Hi, um, uh, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, my name is Kara Hamilton with the Portland Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-429", "start": 2870.53, "end": 2877.355, "text": "Um, so the, uh, the floating rate is the 3-month Treasury auction bill rate plus 35 basis points.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-430", "start": 2878.054, "end": 2885.856, "text": "So right now that's about 4.17%, so significantly lower than a for-profit lender would be lending at.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-431", "start": 2886.536, "end": 2892.693, "text": "Okay, so the benefit here for the community really is in receiving a lower interest rate.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-432", "start": 2894.452, "end": 2896.05, "text": "They're not forgivable loans.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-433", "start": 2896.227, "end": 2900.173, "text": "We are not able to extend the loan period over a longer period of time.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-434", "start": 2900.288, "end": 2906.246, "text": "It is really just access to that federal interest rate that we're able to provide through this process.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-435", "start": 2906.31, "end": 2906.887, "text": "Is that—.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-436", "start": 2907.176, "end": 2907.785, "text": "That's correct.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-437", "start": 2907.914, "end": 2921.436, "text": "We, we could choose to do a longer term than what the city has with HUD, but our recommendations are that we stay consistent with what the term is between the— in, in the agreement between city and HUD.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-438", "start": 2921.869, "end": 2922.879, "text": "And that's a 20-year term.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-439", "start": 2923.954, "end": 2927.307, "text": "And can you speak a little bit to the CBDG repayment?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-440", "start": 2927.403, "end": 2930.675, "text": "It makes me a little bit nervous to hear that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-441", "start": 2930.82, "end": 2943.955, "text": "So I'd like to hear both what within the CBDG-funded projects we would be doing less of and how much you think we will need to pull from that source.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-442", "start": 2944.376, "end": 2963.82, "text": "And then I guess a secondary question to those, do we expect then as payments presumably catch up to be able to, recapitalize the CDBG fund with those excess payments, or would those additional dollars go somewhere else?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-443", "start": 2964.532, "end": 2972.97, "text": "Or do we expect that there won't be excess payments because we're assuming some amount of loan not being repaid?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-444", "start": 2974.127, "end": 2982.619, "text": "Yeah, I think our goal, the way I think of this, is that we are forward allocating our CDBG, right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-445", "start": 2982.683, "end": 2990.175, "text": "We are sort of We, the city, will be borrowing against our future CDBG allocation.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-446", "start": 2991.572, "end": 3008.181, "text": "And so I think of being able to do more preservation projects or acquisition projects in a shorter amount of time rather than waiting for our CDBG annual entitlement to sort of grow to a place where we can do a number of projects.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-447", "start": 3008.309, "end": 3009.305, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-448", "start": 3010.405, "end": 3020.423, "text": "But we will— we, we have talked to our finance department, who's also here, just in case we need some more support or you have more finance-related questions.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-449", "start": 3020.939, "end": 3034.369, "text": "We have planned to set aside some of our annual CDBG entitlement as a reserve in case we need those funds to help pay back HUD.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-450", "start": 3035.893, "end": 3040.797, "text": "And what won't we be doing with CDBG because of that?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-451", "start": 3041.245, "end": 3045.252, "text": "Yeah, so typically we use CDBG for preservation projects.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-452", "start": 3046.085, "end": 3056.374, "text": "So we will be doing preservation, more preservation projects sooner than if we wait and did 'em just through our annual entitlement.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-453", "start": 3057.527, "end": 3066.277, "text": "We also use some of our CDBG for some of our single-family homeownership programs, and those won't be impacted by this.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-454", "start": 3068.05, "end": 3083.578, "text": "So in terms of the risk to other programs at the city, the plan within the bureau is to absorb that risk within the portion of our CBDG funds that are funding similar work.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-455", "start": 3083.675, "end": 3084.309, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-456", "start": 3084.633, "end": 3105.84, "text": "So we are betting on having— we are risking having a little less in the future, in order to front-load for a need that is in crisis right now, but the bureau's plan is to make sure to protect other programs both within CBDG and outside of CBDG.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-457", "start": 3106.786, "end": 3125.86, "text": "We shouldn't see an impact in any other part of our funding portfolio other than the potential for a small impact in the future yes, I would say that that is our goal and our intention, and that's accurate.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-458", "start": 3126.36, "end": 3130.473, "text": "Okay, I'm comfortable with that intent moving forward.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-459", "start": 3130.57, "end": 3130.957, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-460", "start": 3131.134, "end": 3133.761, "text": "Yeah, Vice Chair Green.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-461", "start": 3136.114, "end": 3136.903, "text": "Thank you, Chair Avalos.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-462", "start": 3137.161, "end": 3139.356, "text": "Uh, thank you so much for securing the grant.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-463", "start": 3139.913, "end": 3143.336, "text": "Um, couldn't come at a better possible time.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-464", "start": 3143.632, "end": 3150.801, "text": "And so I just want to uplift the work that folks in the Bureau are always doing to look for ways to secure external resources, even if they are loans.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-465", "start": 3150.85, "end": 3156.949, "text": "They are liquidity tools that come from the federal government that are important parts of the mix.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-466", "start": 3158.96, "end": 3172.986, "text": "I guess, I mean, this is a slam dunk for me, but I will take the opportunity to ask, do you see this as maybe an opportunity to braid with some of the other Debt buydown funds that council's already secured?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-467", "start": 3173.034, "end": 3198.3, "text": "Because this seems like if we're targeting the act, the sort of whole portfolio of properties out there that are months away, a year away from basically going into receivership if we don't take action, do you see this really targeting that and then maybe using an opportunity to take this grant and braid together some of the stuff Council secured as a way to kind of really leverage something?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-468", "start": 3198.974, "end": 3200.547, "text": "Yeah, thanks for the question.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-469", "start": 3201.462, "end": 3203.068, "text": "We actually considered that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-470", "start": 3203.389, "end": 3228.063, "text": "We considered putting some of this funding out with the rent— with the mortgage and rent buydown that Council passed back in April and decided that we need more time to figure out the implementation, and we really want to connect this more to the unified housing strategy that will also be coming before the council soon.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-471", "start": 3228.673, "end": 3245.227, "text": "And so we— and because there is such a need in the affordable housing community right now, we decided to get that $8.8 million out as quickly as possible and do this as like a second step later this year or early next year.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-472", "start": 3245.773, "end": 3246.528, "text": "I think that's the right call.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-473", "start": 3248.437, "end": 3257.832, "text": "These are not all going to come at once too, and you want to do some due diligence when you evaluate how to rank order these things and do triage.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-474", "start": 3260.35, "end": 3260.447, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Kari Mosden" }, { "id": "cue-475", "start": 3260.495, "end": 3272.106, "text": "I appreciated the discussion up here about kind of the, in some sense, the counterparty risk that is present where we borrow from the government, then lend on behalf of the city.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-476", "start": 3273.106, "end": 3273.828, "text": "Well, yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-477", "start": 3274.106, "end": 3277.828, "text": "Anyway, there's that chain of kind of lending and underwriting essentially that's happening here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-478", "start": 3278.775, "end": 3281.325, "text": "Any questions I would've had have been answered in that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-479", "start": 3281.486, "end": 3291.85, "text": "Appreciated Councilor Pirtle-Guiney's question about sort of making sure we were mindful of the previously standing mission and goal there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-480", "start": 3292.026, "end": 3293.422, "text": "So I feel comfortable with this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-481", "start": 3293.534, "end": 3296.919, "text": "I want to thank you for your work in securing this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-482", "start": 3297.064, "end": 3298.7, "text": "This is a sizable and meaningful—.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-483", "start": 3298.909, "end": 3299.807, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-484", "start": 3300.54, "end": 3305.681, "text": "Line of liquidity that we can use to support, um, what is an increasingly urgent problem.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-485", "start": 3305.762, "end": 3307.222, "text": "So thank you, I'm going to support it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-486", "start": 3311.548, "end": 3313.098, "text": "Thank you, Vice Chair Green.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-487", "start": 3314.405, "end": 3321.978, "text": "All right, I don't see anyone else in the queue, so if we're ready, we can go ahead and move forward.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-488", "start": 3322.156, "end": 3326.367, "text": "Um, I would like to apologize here we go.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-489", "start": 3327.011, "end": 3335.032, "text": "I'd like to entertain a motion to move the ordinance document number 2026-272 to the full council with a recommendation to pass.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-490", "start": 3335.644, "end": 3336.111, "text": "So moved.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-491", "start": 3336.417, "end": 3336.965, "text": "Second.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-492", "start": 3337.465, "end": 3341.234, "text": "Moved by Councilor Novick, seconded by Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-493", "start": 3341.976, "end": 3343.071, "text": "Diego, please go ahead and call the roll.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-494", "start": 3347.89, "end": 3348.306, "text": "Koyama Lane.", "speaker": "Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-495", "start": 3349.256, "end": 3349.406, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-496", "start": 3350.24, "end": 3350.573, "text": "Novick.", "speaker": "Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-497", "start": 3352.309, "end": 3352.357, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-498", "start": 3354.662, "end": 3354.742, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-499", "start": 3355.887, "end": 3355.903, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-500", "start": 3356.435, "end": 3356.548, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-501", "start": 3357.305, "end": 3357.531, "text": "Avalos?", "speaker": "Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-502", "start": 3358.289, "end": 3358.321, "text": "Aye.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-503", "start": 3359.095, "end": 3368.02, "text": "With 5 ayes, the motion carries and the ordinance document number 2026-272 will move to the full council with a recommendation it be passed.", "speaker": "Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-504", "start": 3368.635, "end": 3369.201, "text": "Thank you for your time.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-505", "start": 3369.282, "end": 3370.01, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-506", "start": 3371.498, "end": 3381.092, "text": "So colleagues, we are a bit ahead of schedule and so I'm concerned that maybe our I think one of our guests might not be here, so could I get a check on that?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-507", "start": 3381.285, "end": 3382.462, "text": "Claire, do you have an update on that?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-508", "start": 3385.213, "end": 3386.882, "text": "For the single-cert design competition?", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-509", "start": 3386.93, "end": 3387.19, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-510", "start": 3388.275, "end": 3390.203, "text": "We are not quite all assembled.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-511", "start": 3390.381, "end": 3391.58, "text": "We're maybe 10 minutes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-512", "start": 3391.92, "end": 3393.848, "text": "Okay, well then why don't we go ahead and take our break now?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-513", "start": 3395.36, "end": 3399.868, "text": "Um, let's just, uh, how about we give it until 3:05 just to give ourselves a little more time?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-514", "start": 3400.463, "end": 3401.156, "text": "See you at 3:05.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-515", "start": 3401.349, "end": 3401.59, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-516", "start": 4538.033, "end": 4543.946, "text": "All right, we are returning to the Housing and Permitting Committee.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-517", "start": 4544.219, "end": 4546.516, "text": "Diego, go ahead and read item 18.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-518", "start": 4547.657, "end": 4554.791, "text": "Item 18, document number 2026-273, PNW Single Stair Design Competition.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-519", "start": 4555.787, "end": 4564.029, "text": "All right, so Vice Chair Green and I have invited Portland Neighbors Welcome and their partners to tell us about a single stair design competition that they recently organized.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-520", "start": 4564.464, "end": 4571.033, "text": "The competition is part of a broader initiative focused on mid-rise housing development and single-stair building code changes.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-521", "start": 4571.774, "end": 4582.694, "text": "And our intent here is to just talk openly about these kinds of innovative ideas and see how they fit into our broader housing discussion and vision as a committee.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-522", "start": 4582.936, "end": 4586.027, "text": "So with that, presenters, please introduce yourselves and take it away.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-523", "start": 4589.903, "end": 4590.345, "text": "Well, thank you.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-524", "start": 4591.229, "end": 4593.408, "text": "We're here representing Portland Neighbors Welcome.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-525", "start": 4593.623, "end": 4595.261, "text": "And Strongtowns PDX.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-526", "start": 4595.553, "end": 4600.644, "text": "We'll be talking a little bit about single stair reform and highlighting the recent design competition.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-527", "start": 4601.783, "end": 4602.866, "text": "And it's a real pleasure to be here.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-528", "start": 4602.914, "end": 4603.901, "text": "My name is Ian Crozier.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-529", "start": 4604.03, "end": 4605.744, "text": "I'm a volunteer with Portland Neighbors Welcome.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-530", "start": 4606.779, "end": 4607.474, "text": "Michael Anderson.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-531", "start": 4607.587, "end": 4609.64, "text": "I'm with Sightline Institute.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-532", "start": 4610.918, "end": 4611.437, "text": "And I'm Wes Harris.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-533", "start": 4611.486, "end": 4612.569, "text": "I'm with Harris Design Build.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-534", "start": 4614.062, "end": 4615.023, "text": "And Michael's going to kick it off.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-535", "start": 4615.446, "end": 4616.016, "text": "Yeah, thanks.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-536", "start": 4617.466, "end": 4631.177, "text": "So I'm here to talk about the sort of Context of how we got here, and then I'll hand off to Ian, who's going to talk about why this is all a good idea to think about, talk about, and then Wes is going to talk about some of the practicalities.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-537", "start": 4631.291, "end": 4632.606, "text": "I think in general is the idea.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-538", "start": 4634.295, "end": 4651.508, "text": "The national context of this is changing every month, but the states highlighted here have all passed some version of legalizing single stair codes, that is to say small multifamily buildings.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-539", "start": 4652.984, "end": 4653.827, "text": "We'll get into that in a bit.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-540", "start": 4654.379, "end": 4657.006, "text": "Above 3 stories, including as local options.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-541", "start": 4657.444, "end": 4659.99, "text": "And then various cities have also directly passed these.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-542", "start": 4660.039, "end": 4667.878, "text": "And some, in some cases, there's a local option passed by the state, and in some cases, the state has simply said, no, we're gonna legalize these throughout the state.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-543", "start": 4668.216, "end": 4671.42, "text": "This is a change to the building codes that allow this type of building.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-544", "start": 4673.309, "end": 4684.875, "text": "The sort of model for how people started talking about this concept was something that we've been doing in Seattle, that has been happening in Seattle for decades.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-545", "start": 4684.923, "end": 4696.969, "text": "Since 1977, the city added a sort of code option that lets buildings up to 6 stories be built around a single staircase.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-546", "start": 4697.622, "end": 4703.133, "text": "With various safety measures above and beyond what you would see in a standard building.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-547", "start": 4703.55, "end": 4724.419, "text": "And it's happening all over town on these small lots where you can fit not a large building like you might see along Powell Boulevard today, but just a pretty small-scale, neighborhood-scale building that, unlike a lot of large apartment buildings, actually has windows facing on multiple sides.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-548", "start": 4724.757, "end": 4726.036, "text": "We'll get into the benefits of that in a bit.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-549", "start": 4726.472, "end": 4728.204, "text": "But the model really here is Seattle.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-550", "start": 4728.576, "end": 4735.383, "text": "Another city that's even closer to home, Vancouver, Washington, allowed to create a special building code path for these just a few months ago.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-551", "start": 4737.69, "end": 4747.619, "text": "Portland's story starts sort of on this in 2023 when the Oregon Legislature ordered the state to encourage sunlight suites through building code reforms.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-552", "start": 4748.213, "end": 4749.649, "text": "And they left that somewhat open-ended.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-553", "start": 4749.698, "end": 4752.16, "text": "And so it was up to the Uh, thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-554", "start": 4752.16, "end": 4753.9, "text": "So in 2014, the state issued an ordinance asking the state to settle on the code for that.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-555", "start": 4753.9, "end": 4754.88, "text": "It did.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-556", "start": 4754.88, "end": 4762.14, "text": "In 2025, the state added a 4-story sunlight suite option in Appendix Q of the state's building code.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-557", "start": 4763, "end": 4766.56, "text": "The building code, as usual, was adopted by the City of Portland.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-558", "start": 4766.88, "end": 4772.95, "text": "This is last November, and the City of Portland issued a news release that said, hooray, we've got this new option, uh, this is great.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-559", "start": 4773.2, "end": 4786.304, "text": "And a week later, the Fire Bureau said in the Daily Journal of Commerce that actually these buildings wouldn't get what is a standard option for roof access that other multifamily buildings have typically gotten.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-560", "start": 4786.449, "end": 4797.987, "text": "Obviously, roof access is very important in a fire, no disputing that, but the ways to do that are unusually limited for this type of building under the current codes in Portland.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-561", "start": 4799.079, "end": 4804.888, "text": "Since then, there's been no further action, and no buildings have been built or proposed, to my knowledge.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-562", "start": 4804.952, "end": 4805.081, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-563", "start": 4805.482, "end": 4815.122, "text": "Using the new code, and it's not entirely clear they could be because of that special restriction that applies only to this building type that the city has been, you know, seemingly trying to legalize.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-564", "start": 4815.253, "end": 4816.704, "text": "So we are here to call attention to that somewhat.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-565", "start": 4818.645, "end": 4828.731, "text": "Meanwhile, the future is that in 2027, the next national model building code is expected to allow 4-story sunlight suites.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-566", "start": 4829.219, "end": 4831.497, "text": "So it's actually slightly more liberal.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-567", "start": 4831.578, "end": 4831.708, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-568", "start": 4831.832, "end": 4843.161, "text": "Than our state code has allowed the city to be, there's possibility that not only will Portland not be ahead of that curve, it'll end up behind that curve if no further action is taken.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-569", "start": 4849.423, "end": 4849.988, "text": "Thank you, Michael.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-570", "start": 4852.472, "end": 4854.23, "text": "So why single-story buildings?", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-571", "start": 4854.972, "end": 4858.509, "text": "It's a funny, nerdy yeah.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-572", "start": 4858.83, "end": 4861.24, "text": "It's a very little change that can unlock a lot.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-573", "start": 4861.449, "end": 4868.054, "text": "The way I like to think about it is that there's a way that they build apartment buildings in pretty much the whole rest of the world, and there's a way that we do it here.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-574", "start": 4868.456, "end": 4878.779, "text": "And the way that we do it here can reduce the amount of ventilation available, reduces the amount of daylight that can be accessed from most units because you're only getting windows usually on one side of a unit.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-575", "start": 4878.859, "end": 4885.784, "text": "If you visited someone's or live in a recently built apartment building, you're probably familiar that it's It can be a very long, narrow, dark corridor.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-576", "start": 4888.07, "end": 4894.479, "text": "And, but a single stair building, by nature of having more surface area relative to the floor area, can have windows on many sides.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-577", "start": 4896.33, "end": 4900.898, "text": "Like I said, this is the way they build apartment buildings in almost everywhere else in the world.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-578", "start": 4901.431, "end": 4912.369, "text": "The beautiful streets of Paris where you walk down and there's a perimeter, or many European cities, a perimeter line of buildings with many different openings, those are single stair buildings.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-579", "start": 4913.723, "end": 4924.78, "text": "The way they build in Japan and Australia and all over South America is based around this single stair idea as well, which also includes elevators, we should add.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-580", "start": 4924.893, "end": 4927.789, "text": "It's not just the stair, it's a single stair with an elevator.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-581", "start": 4928.21, "end": 4931.128, "text": "United States and Canada are outliers in this regard.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-582", "start": 4931.403, "end": 4938.368, "text": "United States generally just allowing up to 3 stories, and Canada even worse, unusually allowing just 2 stories.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-583", "start": 4939.232, "end": 4940.024, "text": "With a single stair.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-584", "start": 4942.981, "end": 4955.747, "text": "Like Michael said, and like Wes will say, will help dig into, the typical apartment building that we're all familiar with is a large building.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-585", "start": 4956.457, "end": 4959.724, "text": "You see them on commercial corridors very often because they need large sites.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-586", "start": 4959.789, "end": 4961.277, "text": "They have, it's a double-loaded corridor.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-587", "start": 4961.875, "end": 4964.689, "text": "It's like a, sort of like a sardine.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-588", "start": 4964.867, "end": 4970.822, "text": "You've got a central spine and you've got, Rooms that are like narrow ribs coming off on either side.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-589", "start": 4971.405, "end": 4973.834, "text": "It's a long walk to the elevator.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-590", "start": 4974.31, "end": 4982.329, "text": "Those corridors are eerie and have no windows and can feel antisocial.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-591", "start": 4984.247, "end": 4993.725, "text": "And while there are 2 stairwells, they are shared by a very large number of units, and it may be a long walk down the hallway to get one in the case of a fire.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-592", "start": 4995.03, "end": 5003.925, "text": "A single-stair building, or point access block is another term, allows it to be much easier, like we said, to have rooms with cross ventilation.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-593", "start": 5004.037, "end": 5006.414, "text": "It's a short distance to get to the stairs and elevators.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-594", "start": 5007.313, "end": 5009.432, "text": "And then these buildings are much more flexible.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-595", "start": 5009.48, "end": 5011.68, "text": "They can be skinnier buildings.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-596", "start": 5012.612, "end": 5016.305, "text": "A double-loaded corridor, often 70, 80, 90 feet wide.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-597", "start": 5016.417, "end": 5019.307, "text": "A single-stair building might just be 30 or 40 feet wide.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-598", "start": 5019.841, "end": 5023.178, "text": "And therefore, they can fit on a much greater variety of lots.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-599", "start": 5026.58, "end": 5036.881, "text": "Michael Eliason, who founded Larch Lab, created these graphics and has led much of the movement to raise awareness around this building typology.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-600", "start": 5038.06, "end": 5043.887, "text": "One of the important things also to note is that single stair can work much better for family-sized apartment buildings.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-601", "start": 5044.405, "end": 5049.249, "text": "Works fine for studios, but it also can work well for live-work units, 2 bedrooms, 3 bedrooms, and even larger.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-602", "start": 5051.823, "end": 5057.766, "text": "And also creative combinations of those where it's not all just the same product, one size fits all.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-603", "start": 5061.257, "end": 5076.419, "text": "With all that, it's been quite inspiring, and we at Portland Neighbors Welcome wanted to explore these ideas, these really exciting benefits of this building typology, and see what it would look like in Portland.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-604", "start": 5077.027, "end": 5087.072, "text": "And so for that reason, we, working with Strong Towns PDX, organized a design competition around single-stair residential buildings for here in Portland, Oregon.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-605", "start": 5091.604, "end": 5108.22, "text": "The competition is open to architecture students in Oregon and Washington and tasked them with building a 6-floor single-stair residential building, so much— so taller than what would be allowed in Oregon today under the under the Oregon Building Code with up to 4 units per floor.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-606", "start": 5109.649, "end": 5129.253, "text": "They would meet the criteria of having a district-scaled approach, be resilient in a world of a changing climate and with predictable natural disasters, would be sustainable, it would help affordability, and be compatible with modular construction technology that can be made offsite.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-607", "start": 5130.504, "end": 5147.062, "text": "We received 6 submissions from student teams, all of whom are architecture students at the University of Oregon, and they were tasked with choosing one of 4 5,000-square-foot lots in the Inner East Side for their design.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-608", "start": 5148.441, "end": 5156.36, "text": "Something we want to highlight, that these were lots— these lots for their designs were located in the Inner East Side, Yes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-609", "start": 5156.713, "end": 5158.606, "text": "Portland Neighbors Welcome and Strong Towns.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-610", "start": 5159.504, "end": 5163.145, "text": "You may recall we are very excited about Inner Eastside for All.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-611", "start": 5163.193, "end": 5169.754, "text": "We think it's an incredibly important policy for the city of Portland in terms of sustainability, affordability, and equity.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-612", "start": 5170.091, "end": 5176.25, "text": "And if zoning were to get out of the way, allowing housing in a part of the city that's transit and amenity rich.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-613", "start": 5177.325, "end": 5190.652, "text": "At the same time, the zoning change is not going to achieve its potential if we are not able to also address other barriers to infill housing in dense, in built-up parts of the city with small lots.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-614", "start": 5190.958, "end": 5196.017, "text": "So we see single stair reform and Inner Eastside for All as two sides of the same coin.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-615", "start": 5197.038, "end": 5199.34, "text": "And that's a big motivation for the competition.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-616", "start": 5200.85, "end": 5218.754, "text": "The competition with the committee organizers, including myself, RJ Shepherd, Colleen Dixon, Victoria Villa, and Lee Shelton and Sam Stuckey, we helped organize tours of different buildings around town to help inspire the students.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-617", "start": 5219.316, "end": 5232.358, "text": "Several of the student teams were also in a concurrent class at University of Oregon, so they got to work with their professor on their designs as well and produced these beautiful physical models to accompany their designs.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-618", "start": 5232.775, "end": 5243.162, "text": "Some of us from the committee, as well as some of the professional mentors, that were recruited to help guide the students throughout the process were able to attend the review.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-619", "start": 5243.356, "end": 5250.209, "text": "And so it was quite wonderful to hear the students, the reasoning behind their designs, and see the models.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-620", "start": 5251.036, "end": 5253.775, "text": "And even they created videos to accompany the posters.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-621", "start": 5256.45, "end": 5282.856, "text": "The competition kicked off with a kickoff event featuring Michael Eliason, the architect who's based in Seattle, who drew from his experience working in Germany and the United States to start raising awareness about single stair or point access blocks a few years ago, and has been really leading the charge to get people around the country to care about this extremely nerdy building code detail, but in its huge potential for changing and improving how we build housing in the US.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-622", "start": 5284.382, "end": 5292.211, "text": "And then we concluded the design competition with awards ceremony on May 28th, Yes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-623", "start": 5292.259, "end": 5293.651, "text": "Which was a really fun event.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-624", "start": 5295.091, "end": 5308.941, "text": "It brought together a broad cross-section of people who care about housing and affordability and design, from professional architects and planners, the students and their friends, members of the organizations, and then just folks who heard about it online.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-625", "start": 5308.99, "end": 5310.947, "text": "And they were all there together having conversations.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-626", "start": 5313.03, "end": 5321.819, "text": "We got to announce the awards at the ceremony based on the scoring of our interdisciplinary jury, which included Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-627", "start": 5324.802, "end": 5336.266, "text": "Along with Planning Commission Chair Steph Ruth and Michael Liasson and a lot of the leading lights in the architecture and housing scene in Portland.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-628", "start": 5337.487, "end": 5347.651, "text": "Really, we were just really grateful for the contributions and of the time and thoughtfulness that from everyone in the jury went into it.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-629", "start": 5349.124, "end": 5357.577, "text": "And we are— we also want to just celebrate and appreciate the beautiful designs the student teams produced.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-630", "start": 5358.826, "end": 5361.055, "text": "I mean, we're just gonna go through 3 of them now.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-631", "start": 5361.33, "end": 5372.522, "text": "You should have, hopefully, all of the submissions in your agenda packet, and they're also available online.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-632", "start": 5372.587, "end": 5373.495, "text": "I see some hands up.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-633", "start": 5374.193, "end": 5374.971, "text": "Should I pause for these?", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-634", "start": 5375.02, "end": 5375.068, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-635", "start": 5375.603, "end": 5375.828, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-636", "start": 5376.969, "end": 5379.829, "text": "Don't know about normal Zoom protocol here in council chambers.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-637", "start": 5381.066, "end": 5381.259, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-638", "start": 5381.323, "end": 5381.805, "text": "I'll continue.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-639", "start": 5381.869, "end": 5385.693, "text": "So the first place design was called Well on First.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-640", "start": 5385.742, "end": 5386.416, "text": "Apologies.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-641", "start": 5386.609, "end": 5388.28, "text": "Apparently, yes, we do have one quick question.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-642", "start": 5388.36, "end": 5388.682, "text": "Oh, great.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-643", "start": 5388.762, "end": 5389.18, "text": "Okay, cool.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-644", "start": 5389.421, "end": 5394.932, "text": "Just as you get into these, could you say a little bit about the parameters that you wanted?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-645", "start": 5395.607, "end": 5398.627, "text": "'Cause there's certain lot size parameters that are really important to this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-646", "start": 5398.675, "end": 5404.421, "text": "So if you could just sort of level set so everyone understands, like, Why those parameters were chosen, I think that can be helpful.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-647", "start": 5405.543, "end": 5405.847, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-648", "start": 5406.825, "end": 5409.085, "text": "And Wes will speak to that as well a little bit.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-649", "start": 5409.166, "end": 5415.786, "text": "But, and so yeah, so these, and you see, as you can see from this design, it's a compact building.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-650", "start": 5415.898, "end": 5423.352, "text": "And so that was part of the submission criteria was to design for one of these 5,000-square-foot lots.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-651", "start": 5423.432, "end": 5430.867, "text": "And 5,000 square foot being the key, that's by far the most common lot size in the inner east side of Portland.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-652", "start": 5431.808, "end": 5441.161, "text": "And it is much smaller than can be typically developed for multifamily development using conventional approaches.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-653", "start": 5442.755, "end": 5446.547, "text": "So, yes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-654", "start": 5448.451, "end": 5458.905, "text": "They also were trying to meet the criteria of resilience, sustainability, the district scale, or where the— And then each one received a score based on those criteria.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-655", "start": 5461.243, "end": 5466.549, "text": "And yeah, and Wes will dig into the sort of the important economics around that lot size, I think, a little bit more.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-656", "start": 5467.587, "end": 5468.285, "text": "So thank you for the question.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-657", "start": 5470.09, "end": 5475.537, "text": "See, so this team, Richard, Juan, Colin, Jorge, created this really beautiful design.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-658", "start": 5475.586, "end": 5478.269, "text": "It emphasizes access to light and air.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-659", "start": 5479.041, "end": 5482.447, "text": "It's designed for cross-laminated timber construction.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-660", "start": 5482.75, "end": 5494.605, "text": "It has a variety of different unit layouts on different floors, but they have a sort of a vertical structure, these vertical structures system that is sort of same throughout, but works with the different layouts.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-661", "start": 5494.992, "end": 5505.57, "text": "And it's got a— their submission had just really lovely, clean visual style that did a great job highlighting the benefits of single stair design.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-662", "start": 5512.085, "end": 5516.549, "text": "Moving on to the— one of the second-place winners, Reframing.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-663", "start": 5517.127, "end": 5531.722, "text": "Their tagline was, Reframing proposes housing as a framework for care, and their design emphasized accessibility, universal design, aging in place, and accommodating multigenerational families that may include caregivers.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-664", "start": 5531.818, "end": 5540.553, "text": "They've got these cool adaptable layouts with connected studios, it's sort of like a house and a mother-in-law unit, except that's all on the same floor as an apartment building.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-665", "start": 5542.588, "end": 5544.954, "text": "They've got really these lovely, bright, warm graphics.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-666", "start": 5545.083, "end": 5546.177, "text": "I think I teared up a little bit.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-667", "start": 5546.306, "end": 5550.217, "text": "This is one of them that was quite moving when I was first going through and looking at them.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-668", "start": 5552.15, "end": 5555.434, "text": "And that is just really impressive work.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-669", "start": 5555.499, "end": 5559.706, "text": "You can see the blue images there on the top are yeah.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-670", "start": 5559.786, "end": 5569.451, "text": "Are different accessible designs to allow people with different levels of ability to do what they need to do in their home.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-671", "start": 5570.124, "end": 5572.368, "text": "Just one example of the really thoughtful work that went into it.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-672", "start": 5572.688, "end": 5576.888, "text": "Finally, the one I want— the last one I want to highlight is called Portland Access Block.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-673", "start": 5577.272, "end": 5579.532, "text": "That's a pun on the Point Access Block.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-674", "start": 5579.596, "end": 5586.536, "text": "This design by Anna, Danny, and Griff features reconfigurable layouts with a cross-laminated timber panel system.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-675", "start": 5586.745, "end": 5588.283, "text": "It emphasizes interactions.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-676", "start": 5588.814, "end": 5593.837, "text": "Social interaction with some shared porches and a mix of different unit sizes on the same floor.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-677", "start": 5594.272, "end": 5598.625, "text": "And the idea of getting people to talk to each other with different sort of household sizes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-678", "start": 5600.836, "end": 5604.558, "text": "And an adaptability for shade, privacy, openness, and airflow.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-679", "start": 5606.677, "end": 5610.157, "text": "Like I said, there's 3 other designs that are also beautiful and excellent.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-680", "start": 5610.303, "end": 5611.891, "text": "I encourage you to check those out.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-681", "start": 5612.426, "end": 5615.489, "text": "We think these images are really important.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-682", "start": 5615.57, "end": 5615.926, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-683", "start": 5616.07, "end": 5616.31, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-684", "start": 5616.31, "end": 5621.51, "text": "I think that we've all seen that these designs are an important and powerful tool for communicating about housing, a positive vision for housing in our city.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-685", "start": 5621.51, "end": 5626.88, "text": "It's human-centered, beautiful, abundant, and contributes positively to our neighborhoods.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-686", "start": 5627.85, "end": 5633.01, "text": "But these designs are intentionally very aspirational and hopefully inspirational.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-687", "start": 5633.01, "end": 5651.351, "text": "But in order to keep the thread today with the actual development conditions in the actual city of Portland and why single stair reform is so important for building housing in those actual conditions, we wanted to have Wes Ayers, a developer of small-scale housing here in Portland, share his knowledge about that.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-688", "start": 5652.308, "end": 5652.697, "text": "So thank you.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-689", "start": 5655.042, "end": 5655.573, "text": "Thank you, Ian.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-690", "start": 5656.167, "end": 5657.18, "text": "My name is Wes Ayers.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-691", "start": 5657.598, "end": 5666.25, "text": "I'm a principal at Ayers Design Build, and we help developers design and investors design and build medium and small-scale infill housing here in Portland.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-692", "start": 5666.298, "end": 5670.501, "text": "I'm familiar with small-scale development and single stair.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-693", "start": 5670.742, "end": 5684.009, "text": "So I'm here to give you some background on the economics of single stair buildings and how allowing taller street-scale apartment buildings on small infill lots can bring a lot more housing to the vibrant fabric of our historic mixed-use and urban neighborhoods.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-694", "start": 5685.392, "end": 5691.332, "text": "And I apologize in advance, the slides aren't totally aligned with what I'm going to say, but I think we got this.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-695", "start": 5692.46, "end": 5695.639, "text": "So Portland's inner urban neighborhoods were platted about a century ago.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-696", "start": 5695.801, "end": 5701.434, "text": "They're small blocks, dense blocks, and a typical lot size, as Ian pointed out, is about 50 by 100 feet.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-697", "start": 5701.483, "end": 5701.515, "text": "Wow.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-698", "start": 5702.738, "end": 5707.178, "text": "I think we're all familiar with the Northwest Alphabet District, Buckman, Hawthorne, Mississippi.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-699", "start": 5708.027, "end": 5715.481, "text": "Each has frequent transit, sidewalks, street trees, corner stores, vibrant restaurants, and errands can all be accomplished on foot or bike.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-700", "start": 5715.658, "end": 5726.702, "text": "Most of these neighborhoods already have old brick apartment buildings in them, and anyone who walks through Northwest Portland, Kerns or Buckman, has seen them mixed right in with all the foursquares and all the bungalows, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-701", "start": 5726.798, "end": 5728.129, "text": "And nobody feels that they're out of place.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-702", "start": 5728.979, "end": 5732.543, "text": "So these buildings were legal when they were built and we stopped building them.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-703", "start": 5733.298, "end": 5737.648, "text": "And the apartment buildings we build today don't fit on a typical Portland lot.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-704", "start": 5738.29, "end": 5739.543, "text": "So why don't they fit?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-705", "start": 5740.522, "end": 5743.989, "text": "The standard American apartment building is an archetype familiar here in Portland.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-706", "start": 5744.198, "end": 5748.035, "text": "It's a hallway down the middle, apartments on both sides, and a stair at each end.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-707", "start": 5748.212, "end": 5750.106, "text": "And we call that the double-loaded corridor.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-708", "start": 5751.502, "end": 5759.546, "text": "And it's an efficient layout that maximizes the number of units per floor while meeting all the fire and life safety requirements for that building type.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-709", "start": 5759.964, "end": 5767.918, "text": "So each apartment has just enough natural light and it connects along a long hallway with 2 exit stairs and an elevator, as Ian described earlier.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-710", "start": 5768.528, "end": 5773.573, "text": "So these apartment buildings are economically efficient and generally developed by large institutional investors.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-711", "start": 5773.766, "end": 5779.438, "text": "And if you've played the apartment game enough, which I have, there's a prototype, we stick to it.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-712", "start": 5780.354, "end": 5787.514, "text": "We try to play with this facade to keep things interesting, but for the most part, These buildings are spreadsheet-driven, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-713", "start": 5787.658, "end": 5791.684, "text": "And we're maximizing the number of units on each site.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-714", "start": 5792.726, "end": 5799.237, "text": "So they require about 55 or 60 feet in width to really maximize that double-loaded corridor.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-715", "start": 5800.472, "end": 5803.551, "text": "And so that's— and we're familiar with these buildings, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-716", "start": 5803.599, "end": 5811.289, "text": "We see 'em in Slabtown, we see 'em in the Pearl District, we see them along Division, we see them kind of at all these places yes.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-717", "start": 5811.654, "end": 5813.946, "text": "That, you know, we see these large apartment buildings.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-718", "start": 5815.12, "end": 5826.175, "text": "And so the reality is that Portland's typical lot is relatively small, and we have already developed much of our inner city sort of large lot capacity.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-719", "start": 5826.24, "end": 5828.65, "text": "So those apartment buildings, they require large lots.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-720", "start": 5829.935, "end": 5831.638, "text": "Most new large sites would be—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-721", "start": 5831.927, "end": 5840.326, "text": "Need to be assembled from lots that already have people living on them, and the buildings that would need to come down to consolidate those lots will likely be older and less expensive.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-722", "start": 5840.374, "end": 5840.955, "text": "That's our naturally affordable housing.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-723", "start": 5842.899, "end": 5846.617, "text": "So land value in Portland runs the way I think anybody here would expect.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-724", "start": 5847.034, "end": 5857.547, "text": "Our inner urban areas carry the highest land values, which means that consolidating lots in our transit-rich and commercially viable neighborhoods where everybody wants to live is an expensive endeavor.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-725", "start": 5857.643, "end": 5865.352, "text": "So currently it's both so expensive and restrictive that very little, if almost no, new development's happening right now.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-726", "start": 5866.378, "end": 5872.339, "text": "So Portland's own housing needs analysis, which I think some of us are familiar with, calls for about 120,000 new homes.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-727", "start": 5873.296, "end": 5876.638, "text": "By 2045, and that's less than 20 years from now.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-728", "start": 5877.236, "end": 5881.16, "text": "And we're not building anywhere near at the rate in order to achieve that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-729", "start": 5882.02, "end": 5887.738, "text": "So we'll have little chance of actually meeting that goal if we wait to assemble these lots, right, for these big apartments.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-730", "start": 5889.672, "end": 5890.98, "text": "And so we need a different strategy.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-731", "start": 5891.352, "end": 5898.135, "text": "And I think we need the ability to build residential density on the existing lots we have, but those lots are small.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-732", "start": 5899.328, "end": 5900.613, "text": "So what fits?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-733", "start": 5901.191, "end": 5906.858, "text": "Well, double-loaded quarters don't fit on small lots and are typically too wide to retain the economic efficiency.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-734", "start": 5908.174, "end": 5912.541, "text": "The second stair and the connecting corridors erode the net available housing area for each floor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-735", "start": 5913.151, "end": 5916.329, "text": "And then the fire code further restricts the distance between the 2 stairs.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-736", "start": 5916.426, "end": 5921.868, "text": "There's actually a minimum distance or a maximum or a minimum distance they're allowed to be to each other.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-737", "start": 5922.526, "end": 5925.335, "text": "And the result is a building that's constricted by egress requirements.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-738", "start": 5925.919, "end": 5932.253, "text": "And the ability to— and they can only basically provide either smaller units, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-739", "start": 5932.399, "end": 5934.499, "text": "Or a limited number of units per floor.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-740", "start": 5937.195, "end": 5942.044, "text": "So this is kind of why we don't really see a lot of double-stair buildings on small sites.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-741", "start": 5942.108, "end": 5942.962, "text": "You just don't see them.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-742", "start": 5943.9, "end": 5945.621, "text": "Single-stair layouts help a lot.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-743", "start": 5946.103, "end": 5951.203, "text": "With only one stair, circulation space is reduced up to a third of—.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-744", "start": 5951.203, "end": 5951.315, "text": "2/3.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-745", "start": 5951.522, "end": 5952.456, "text": "What it would be here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-746", "start": 5952.553, "end": 5958.946, "text": "And you see with this slide how much circulation space is required per floor versus, you know, having a single stair.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-747", "start": 5961.03, "end": 5972.299, "text": "So with only one stair, the circulation space is reduced up to a third of the space required for a double-loaded corridor and allowing one more unit, more area room for larger 2 and 3-bedroom units.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-748", "start": 5973.27, "end": 5976.261, "text": "And again, as Ian pointed out, with larger windows on each floor.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-749", "start": 5976.666, "end": 5980.647, "text": "So not only are these units more economical, they feel more like home.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-750", "start": 5981.665, "end": 5990.062, "text": "So this is why single-story buildings are common on single lot types for up to 3 stories in residential multifamily zoned areas.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-751", "start": 5990.592, "end": 5991.555, "text": "So what's the problem?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-752", "start": 5992.181, "end": 5997.046, "text": "Well, in order to build more housing for more people in well-connected and desirable neighborhoods, we need land.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-753", "start": 5997.223, "end": 6006.455, "text": "And because there is very little vacant land left in these neighborhoods, we likely need to remove existing housing, which comes at both an economic and a displacement cost.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-754", "start": 6007.543, "end": 6016.702, "text": "So on a typical single lot in Portland's inner neighborhoods, a single stair, 3-story building nets up to about 4 units per floor times 3 floors, right?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-755", "start": 6016.782, "end": 6023.317, "text": "And then we lose a floor to the first floor for, you know, circulation, bike rooms, all that kind of stuff.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-756", "start": 6023.976, "end": 6026.078, "text": "And so we end up with 11 units.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-757", "start": 6027.632, "end": 6031.392, "text": "And that's with sort of even sort of the best zoning we could get.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-758", "start": 6031.522, "end": 6033.224, "text": "And most of our lots don't even have that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-759", "start": 6033.613, "end": 6035.201, "text": "So we end up with really small buildings.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-760", "start": 6035.25, "end": 6035.298, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-761", "start": 6035.701, "end": 6044.654, "text": "So the economic viability of any development is dependent on the number of variables, including land costs, demolition costs, and all these costs that go into making buildings, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-762", "start": 6044.734, "end": 6049.661, "text": "Well, right now, and all of that has to be paid for by either rent or a sales price, right?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-763", "start": 6050.128, "end": 6056.318, "text": "And right now, the rent and the sales don't cover the cost to develop on most of those sites with 3-story buildings.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-764", "start": 6057.253, "end": 6062.272, "text": "So each development obviously must clear the cost to develop before it can actually become more housing.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-765", "start": 6062.32, "end": 6062.369, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-766", "start": 6062.663, "end": 6067.384, "text": "And as land becomes more valuable and fixed costs continue to increase, we're limited in our options.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-767", "start": 6067.819, "end": 6070.881, "text": "And the ready remedy to us right now is capacity.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-768", "start": 6072.19, "end": 6075.042, "text": "So increasing development capacity reduces cost per unit.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-769", "start": 6075.384, "end": 6076.899, "text": "This may seem obvious, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-770", "start": 6076.948, "end": 6078.138, "text": "But I think it's worth saying out loud.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-771", "start": 6079.95, "end": 6085.793, "text": "Roughly 2/3 of a development at the scale that we're talking about right now scales per unit, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-772", "start": 6086.437, "end": 6091.642, "text": "So every unit needs its own framing, siding, windows, drywall, wall cabinets, appliances, and wiring.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-773", "start": 6092.219, "end": 6094.815, "text": "But the other third remains relatively fixed per development.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-774", "start": 6094.863, "end": 6101.113, "text": "That's land, design and engineering, excavation, the foundation, the bike room, the roof.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-775", "start": 6101.273, "end": 6104.703, "text": "All of those things are fixed regardless of how many floors you have.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-776", "start": 6105.392, "end": 6118.16, "text": "So when each additional floor adds 4 more homes, because that's a limit for single-stair buildings, right, to those fixed costs, right, the cost per unit drops substantially every floor we add.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-777", "start": 6118.54, "end": 6121.58, "text": "So the result of each floor of building capacity is substantial.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-778", "start": 6122.02, "end": 6129.88, "text": "Take the same lot, the same foundation, same roof, and roughly the same set of drawings, and the only thing changing is the number of floors.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-779", "start": 6129.92, "end": 6139.96, "text": "3 Floors nets 11 homes, and each of one of those costs, on some of our more recent models, about $278,000 a unit to deliver.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-780", "start": 6139.96, "end": 6142.12, "text": "And then if we add a 4th floor, we get down to $236,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-781", "start": 6142.12, "end": 6142.14, "text": "Wow.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-782", "start": 6143.553, "end": 6148.786, "text": "If we had a 5th floor, we can get down to $226,000, right?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-783", "start": 6148.85, "end": 6154.196, "text": "And that— so each additional floor only costs an additional $179,000 per floor, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-784", "start": 6154.324, "end": 6160.055, "text": "So you can see how quickly adding a floor really reduces the amount— the cost of each additional unit.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-785", "start": 6161.211, "end": 6164.501, "text": "Small infill lot does something that large projects cannot.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-786", "start": 6164.903, "end": 6171.563, "text": "A 15-home building on one lot is a project that a local investor or developer can finance finance or manage.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-787", "start": 6171.964, "end": 6173.55, "text": "Granted, it's still a lot of money, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-788", "start": 6173.71, "end": 6177.46, "text": "But you don't need large institutional loans to kind of build this kind of housing.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-789", "start": 6178.133, "end": 6186.177, "text": "A 200-unit building on an assembled lot requires, you know, many millions of dollars and years of lot consolidation and pre-development.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-790", "start": 6186.77, "end": 6193.404, "text": "Only a handful of firms in Portland can do that, and Portland already has plenty of builders doing houses, ADUs, and small multifamily.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-791", "start": 6193.997, "end": 6202.683, "text": "Making a 4th or more floors possible on standard lot puts apartment construction within the reach of a lot more investors, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-792", "start": 6202.763, "end": 6207.899, "text": "So basically there's a few things that I just kind of want to kind of put out there, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-793", "start": 6207.98, "end": 6210.389, "text": "One is that what's limiting us, right?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-794", "start": 6210.713, "end": 6215.305, "text": "Well, right now, as was mentioned, we have some fire apparatus issues.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-795", "start": 6215.71, "end": 6224.811, "text": "Portland's code guide allows 4 stories on a single stair, but it requires the street-facing side with 26 feet clear for a ladder truck and no power lines overhead.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-796", "start": 6224.86, "end": 6225.005, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-797", "start": 6225.359, "end": 6228.95, "text": "That's not— basically, there's almost no lots that comply with that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-798", "start": 6230.25, "end": 6236.047, "text": "And the second is zoning reform, which Portland Neighbors Welcome is ringing the bell on for the inner city east side for all.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-799", "start": 6236.947, "end": 6245.765, "text": "So even if we were out, the building code would allow a 4th floor, the zoning in most of our multi-dwelling neighborhoods still limits us to 3 floors regardless.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-800", "start": 6247.218, "end": 6251.593, "text": "And then the third thing is that 4 stories is the current maximum for single stair in Oregon.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-801", "start": 6251.707, "end": 6251.934, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-802", "start": 6252.042, "end": 6255.973, "text": "But Seattle has allowed 6 since 1977, as Michael pointed out.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-803", "start": 6257.193, "end": 6259.648, "text": "New York allows 6, British Columbia allows 6.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-804", "start": 6259.905, "end": 6264.478, "text": "And as land costs keep rising, we need the capacity to expand up, not out.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-805", "start": 6264.896, "end": 6266.917, "text": "So none of this is experimental.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-806", "start": 6266.982, "end": 6279.065, "text": "New York has had about 4,400 single-stair buildings for over 3 stories, and their fire death rate is no different, and this is from Pew, than any other apartment building in the city.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-807", "start": 6279.399, "end": 6281.127, "text": "Seattle's been building them for 50 years.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-808", "start": 6281.822, "end": 6283.599, "text": "So, so that's it.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-809", "start": 6283.647, "end": 6284.471, "text": "That's what I've got.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-810", "start": 6284.778, "end": 6287.427, "text": "And, and I guess we're all happy to answer any questions.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-811", "start": 6290.125, "end": 6297.349, "text": "Thank you so much for the thorough presentation and really just excited to see the innovation that's been shown in the competition.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-812", "start": 6298.507, "end": 6304.549, "text": "And hopefully we're about to enter into some unified housing strategy discussions, and I'm really looking forward to this being part of it.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-813", "start": 6307.349, "end": 6310.59, "text": "Thank you for being here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-814", "start": 6310.654, "end": 6311.509, "text": "Thanks for the presentation.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-815", "start": 6312.368, "end": 6315.759, "text": "Always love hearing about a student design competition.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-816", "start": 6316.048, "end": 6316.755, "text": "It's awesome.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-817", "start": 6317.639, "end": 6329.013, "text": "Can one of you share a bit more about if and how single stair design could help us plan for more accessible housing, especially for people who use wheelchairs?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-818", "start": 6329.061, "end": 6329.753, "text": "Yeah, so I think that's a great question.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-819", "start": 6331.666, "end": 6332.288, "text": "I can take a crack.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-820", "start": 6336.21, "end": 6344.343, "text": "The key thresholds for accessible housing, I would say, are first, does it have at least 20 homes in the building?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-821", "start": 6344.697, "end": 6349.404, "text": "The 20th home triggers a Type A accessibility mandate for at least one of those homes.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-822", "start": 6350.035, "end": 6358.189, "text": "And so once you are able to put 20 homes in the building, One of them absolutely has to be pretty wheelchair ready.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-823", "start": 6358.433, "end": 6361.111, "text": "Type A is quite a high standard and effective at it.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-824", "start": 6363.99, "end": 6370.456, "text": "If you're only building to 3 stories at a single stair layout, that's only going to be 12 homes.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-825", "start": 6371.07, "end": 6372.679, "text": "4 stories gets you to 16.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-826", "start": 6373.436, "end": 6375.014, "text": "5 stories gets you to 20.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-827", "start": 6375.287, "end": 6384.16, "text": "So we're not— with this layout on the vast majority of lots, even if we were to allow small apartment buildings on the vast majority of lots in close-in neighborhoods.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-828", "start": 6384.597, "end": 6395.382, "text": "They likely wouldn't be built, they wouldn't trigger the Type A threshold, they wouldn't trigger inclusionary zoning until you can get to at least 20 homes in the building.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-829", "start": 6395.495, "end": 6396.091, "text": "So that's one part.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-830", "start": 6396.526, "end": 6398.49, "text": "Another threshold is, is there an elevator?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-831", "start": 6398.877, "end": 6408.31, "text": "If there's an elevator, not only do you have an elevator, you also have a Type B standard that applies to all the buildings, which is a lower standard of accessibility, but works for people who don't need a mobility device.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-832", "start": 6408.38, "end": 6408.432, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-833", "start": 6409.39, "end": 6412.843, "text": "But still, you know, benefit from some accessibility features.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-834", "start": 6413.54, "end": 6431.234, "text": "So both getting to 5 stories and for the sake of making the elevator feasible, you know, the floors 2, 3, and 4 benefit from the existence of that 5th story that makes the elevator feasible and from getting to the higher unit count.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-835", "start": 6434.2, "end": 6458.892, "text": "And then jumping onto that, again, this single stair aligning with Inner Eastside for All, allowing apartment buildings in more locations off of arterials, if we have a building typology that is feasible to build in those areas, all of a sudden that opens up much vaster areas of the city that people who need a wheelchair are able to live in, right?", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-836", "start": 6458.957, "end": 6464.608, "text": "Whereas currently, if you need to live in a building with an elevator, You have quite limited options.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-837", "start": 6464.657, "end": 6466.224, "text": "They're mostly on large arterials.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-838", "start": 6468.885, "end": 6480.313, "text": "And also, can someone expand on how single stair plans could be adapted to support residents over time, support people who are community members who are aging in place?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-839", "start": 6483.64, "end": 6483.769, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-840", "start": 6484.223, "end": 6492.988, "text": "I think the— honestly, the designs that came out of the competition do Do that quite beautifully.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-841", "start": 6494.072, "end": 6516.747, "text": "One of the— and we can't say what any particular building design or building owner is going to do with their building, but in general, the layout, the single stair layout creates options because it takes up so little space, because it allows the flexibility in unit layout.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-842", "start": 6516.814, "end": 6516.913, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-843", "start": 6517.237, "end": 6520.738, "text": "And in light and air, it's there.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-844", "start": 6521.045, "end": 6540.821, "text": "That means that it is— there are many more possibilities to design a building that is going to work for a multigenerational family, that is going to have maybe a variety of different layouts in parts of the building that would be appropriate for a person at different life stages.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-845", "start": 6541.9, "end": 6543.286, "text": "Of course, the accessibility.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-846", "start": 6543.334, "end": 6543.479, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-847", "start": 6544.107, "end": 6546.085, "text": "Benefits that Michael just mentioned.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-848", "start": 6547.62, "end": 6563.439, "text": "And there's also, in terms of the social component, there is some nice studies out there that focus on the kinds of small public-private spaces that we occupy.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-849", "start": 6563.971, "end": 6569.788, "text": "I mentioned those long eerie hallways that are associated with double-loaded corridor buildings.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-850", "start": 6569.886, "end": 6570.048, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-851", "start": 6570.982, "end": 6588.433, "text": "That is a— when you are sharing that space with potentially hundreds of other strangers, that creates a different social dynamic that, and I think generally speaking, does not promote socializing because it's just too many strange people.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-852", "start": 6588.93, "end": 6604.376, "text": "Whereas when you have 4 or 6 or 8 folks who are on just a single floor of the building or even up to, you know, a little more than a dozen units, that is a small enough group of people that it becomes much easier.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-853", "start": 6604.44, "end": 6614.739, "text": "And there is literature that has looked into this that makes it much easier to build social connections, which we also know is incredibly important as people go through different life stages.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-854", "start": 6616.787, "end": 6617.142, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-855", "start": 6617.754, "end": 6620.528, "text": "And I'm looking at slide 5.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-856", "start": 6621.302, "end": 6627.838, "text": "You can see it's It's like November 4th, and then a week later, hear from the Fire Bureau.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-857", "start": 6628.319, "end": 6635.635, "text": "I'm wondering if you all have been able to have conversations with leaders in our Fire Bureau or even the fire chief.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-858", "start": 6636.823, "end": 6639.117, "text": "Do you know some of their perspectives?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-859", "start": 6639.534, "end": 6649.632, "text": "And then secondary, looking at cities like Vancouver, Washington, Seattle that are moving forward with this, do you know how that Has worked with their fire bureaus?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-860", "start": 6650.533, "end": 6656.356, "text": "Have they been able to find some compromising, some working together, or can you share a little bit about that?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-861", "start": 6657.112, "end": 6674.25, "text": "I don't think any of us can speak for fire bureaus here or elsewhere in particular, but the— I spoke with a member of the fire bureau team a couple years ago when I was gathering I was able to participate in the conversation.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-862", "start": 6674.25, "end": 6674.25, "text": "I was able to participate in the conversation.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-863", "start": 6674.25, "end": 6686.61, "text": "Information for the conversation at the state level and was part of a subsequent conversation with some building code and fire code people here in the city soon after that.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-864", "start": 6686.91, "end": 6693.23, "text": "It seemed to me like at the time it was a very forthright conversation about trade-offs and ladder angles and so on.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-865", "start": 6693.23, "end": 6699.99, "text": "And I was pretty optimistic that everybody was headed to a useful outcome.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-866", "start": 6703.3, "end": 6712.616, "text": "I haven't spoken with any folks since that November decision, and I know we've been in conversation with a couple council offices about it, but I don't know what may have come of that.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-867", "start": 6716.613, "end": 6717.095, "text": "I would love to.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-868", "start": 6718.043, "end": 6722.125, "text": "I just got sent an official statement.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-869", "start": 6722.864, "end": 6726.203, "text": "Okay, so it sounds like there are some pretty strong feelings.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-870", "start": 6726.269, "end": 6729.018, "text": "Do you— can you share at all about studies around fire safety?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-871", "start": 6730.267, "end": 6733.61, "text": "Around single stair design and what those studies show?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-872", "start": 6735.48, "end": 6736.784, "text": "I can, but do you want to?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-873", "start": 6737.348, "end": 6737.574, "text": "Please.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-874", "start": 6737.751, "end": 6769.715, "text": "Okay, so there was a close analysis that Wes mentioned of the safety record in New York City that concluded that it had the exact, over the course of 10 years, The last 25 years or so, the number of homes in those buildings compared to every other existing building in New York City had the exact same rate of fire deaths for the single stair and the other housing types.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-875", "start": 6769.763, "end": 6784.632, "text": "There is a different analysis of national data comparing multifamily buildings, old multifamily buildings, old single-family buildings, new multifamily buildings, And new single-family buildings.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-876", "start": 6785.086, "end": 6789.615, "text": "Of all of those, by far the safest housing type is the new multifamily building.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-877", "start": 6791.251, "end": 6796.004, "text": "And old multifamily buildings and old single-family buildings, significantly less safe.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-878", "start": 6796.376, "end": 6806.682, "text": "So in the aggregate of what we should be doing, moving to buildings with sprinklers is a huge, huge safety improvement.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-879", "start": 6806.795, "end": 6809.168, "text": "Now, that can be a big building with sprinklers or a small building with sprinklers.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-880", "start": 6809.216, "end": 6809.265, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-881", "start": 6809.544, "end": 6814.725, "text": "Small buildings with sprinklers, I think it's likely reflected in that New York fire safety data.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-882", "start": 6815.113, "end": 6819.012, "text": "The smaller a building is, the fewer people are affected by any single fire event, right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-883", "start": 6819.158, "end": 6834.219, "text": "And so that's also just the mere small size of a building is a huge safety benefit to the calculation that I think has sometimes been lost in the conversation about number of staircases.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-884", "start": 6834.268, "end": 6837.571, "text": "We're talking about increasing the number of staircases per home.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-885", "start": 6837.637, "end": 6837.687, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-886", "start": 6838.367, "end": 6839.217, "text": "In these buildings, right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-887", "start": 6839.266, "end": 6850.592, "text": "Because one small building with a staircase and 4 units per floor is way, way, way more stair capacity than one giant building with 2 staircases, if that makes sense.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-888", "start": 6850.993, "end": 6852.935, "text": "So that is one way to think about it.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-889", "start": 6853.849, "end": 6862.625, "text": "And on that slide 5 where it says 2027, it sounds like it's saying it's very possible that nationally this might change.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-890", "start": 6863.026, "end": 6885.147, "text": "Is that what yeah, and so there's been a conversation, life, a conversation in the National Building Code world about this, and a very similar set of conditions to Appendix Q is headed for the International Building Code, International Building Code in 2027, and would be expected generally to be integrated into the 2028 OSSC in Oregon.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-891", "start": 6886.11, "end": 6892.057, "text": "Is there a certain date that that's adopted, or just sometime in 2027, and then It's 2028 when it goes into effect.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-892", "start": 6892.105, "end": 6897.395, "text": "Yeah, the IBC is on its own schedule and then typically Oregon follows a year later and integrates things.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-893", "start": 6897.637, "end": 6903.464, "text": "But Oregon has the option to deviate from the national model as it sees fit.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-894", "start": 6904.339, "end": 6906.023, "text": "Thanks for answering all my questions.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-895", "start": 6907.95, "end": 6908.709, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-896", "start": 6908.855, "end": 6915.154, "text": "I am next in the queue and I, well, first of all, thank you for being here.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-897", "start": 6916.416, "end": 6924.033, "text": "You know, obviously housing affordability is one of our most pressing challenges, and we need to get serious about increasing housing production.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-898", "start": 6924.081, "end": 6937.932, "text": "And so I think that the single-story buildings have become an important topic in housing policy because they raise the question of, are there opportunities to safely build more housing on more sites by modernizing regulations that were developed decades ago?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-899", "start": 6937.981, "end": 6940.584, "text": "So I'm grateful that we're having this discussion.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-900", "start": 6940.68, "end": 6941.885, "text": "We're engaging students.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-901", "start": 6942.367, "end": 6946.073, "text": "And to envision what the future looks like.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-902", "start": 6946.618, "end": 6951.656, "text": "I wanted to pick up on the dialogue around accessible housing.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-903", "start": 6952.169, "end": 6964.859, "text": "You know, I think that as more people— if you look broadly at housing and kind of what's going on with where— what kinds of housing people need, obviously we know we need more family-sized housing.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-904", "start": 6964.923, "end": 6965.95, "text": "That's been an ongoing need.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-905", "start": 6966.367, "end": 6987.093, "text": "But this conversation around I just— I guess I'm just concerned that I don't hear a broader conversation about more universal design in our housing, because at the end of the day, we are all only temporarily able-bodied, right?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-906", "start": 6987.737, "end": 6993.196, "text": "And mobility challenges only increase with age, and that's on top of people who, you know, have disabilities.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-907", "start": 6993.277, "end": 6993.39, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-908", "start": 6993.662, "end": 6994.947, "text": "These different challenges.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-909", "start": 6995.011, "end": 7008.761, "text": "And so I just, I, I guess I'm just thinking out loud that it concerns me that I don't know that as a whole I'm seeing a lot of discussion on how we, like, making something accessible for someone in a wheelchair makes it accessible for everybody.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-910", "start": 7008.841, "end": 7010.496, "text": "That's the whole point of universal design.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-911", "start": 7010.865, "end": 7013.515, "text": "It's not about making things just for people with wheelchairs.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-912", "start": 7013.58, "end": 7039.16, "text": "It's about making it so that if it's, you know, you're, you know, maybe you have a mobility challenge or you develop one, or if we're looking at trying to increase our housing stock, knowing that a lot of elderly seniors are going to have to size down, and knowing that a lot of our homeless population is increasingly people over age 65, and our homeless population is overrepresented in folks with disabilities.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-913", "start": 7039.272, "end": 7061.472, "text": "And so just again, you know, as I was hearing you explain kind of the different trigger levels of when you should have an accessible home in a building, that just feels very, um, paltry and doesn't feel like we're— I would just want to elevate that as an important part of how we talk about, um, universal design and housing.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-914", "start": 7061.584, "end": 7077.926, "text": "So just wanted to state that because I think that's a key, um, to how we're going to help a lot of the folks that are currently unhoused get into housing, and they're going to need So this was a lot of wonky land conversation.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-915", "start": 7077.974, "end": 7086.067, "text": "So for those that are listening in, and LOL at the people who I said, the 5 of you listening in, I got those 5 people message me and said, I was one of them.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-916", "start": 7086.805, "end": 7094.079, "text": "So for all of those folks that are listening, can you tell me what is the core problem that the single stair reform is trying to solve?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-917", "start": 7094.127, "end": 7097.697, "text": "So the single stair reform is trying to solve can you summarize that for us?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-918", "start": 7103.23, "end": 7120.668, "text": "The way we build multifamily housing is inefficient, backwards, expensive, inflexible, and does not produce the results that we deserve.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-919", "start": 7124.131, "end": 7125.557, "text": "Okay, you want to take a crack at it?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-920", "start": 7125.638, "end": 7126.118, "text": "Anyone else?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-921", "start": 7127.48, "end": 7128.41, "text": "Yeah, I'll take it.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-922", "start": 7128.458, "end": 7129.227, "text": "I'll take a crack.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-923", "start": 7129.387, "end": 7131.822, "text": "I've sort of enjoyed kind of putting this together.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-924", "start": 7133.265, "end": 7134.482, "text": "So what's become—.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-925", "start": 7134.771, "end": 7143.135, "text": "I mean, what we already kind of know being in the industry is that, you know, every unit that we add, you know, per floor plate obviously decreases the cost per unit.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-926", "start": 7144.369, "end": 7149.079, "text": "But what's so amazing about single stair is that we can actually start to develop these small lots.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-927", "start": 7150.13, "end": 7156.469, "text": "And we can get a lot more housing like in the neighborhoods that we already have all this infrastructure for.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-928", "start": 7156.887, "end": 7171.686, "text": "And Sameer came to our— sorry, Councilor Kanal came to a meeting at the library in Hollywood just, I think it was last week, and really kind of put forth like how critical our infrastructure is right now that we need more people.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-929", "start": 7171.751, "end": 7174.29, "text": "We need more people, you know, paying into the system.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-930", "start": 7174.565, "end": 7176.484, "text": "You know, it's older and then, and if we just—.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-931", "start": 7176.484, "end": 7176.535, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-932", "start": 7176.672, "end": 7183.723, "text": "Continue this sort of suburban kind of Inner East Side vibe, like we may not be able to support it.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-933", "start": 7183.884, "end": 7188.606, "text": "And building apartments, you know, these big ones requires a lot of resources.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-934", "start": 7189.425, "end": 7192.509, "text": "And the accessibility, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-935", "start": 7192.558, "end": 7203.389, "text": "The ability to build these small buildings that are more neighborhood scaled and that still provide, you know, like house-like living conditions homes, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-936", "start": 7203.55, "end": 7207.346, "text": "You can actually get 2 and 3-bedroom units rather than these shotgun, you know.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-937", "start": 7207.426, "end": 7210.322, "text": "So I think just the quality of what we're going to build is going to be better.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-938", "start": 7210.482, "end": 7213.836, "text": "The accessibility to the people who can actually finance it is easier.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-939", "start": 7215.226, "end": 7227.497, "text": "And just to comment a little bit on your accessibility comment there, elevator reform, you know, at the state level would take us a really long way to providing more elevators because the market wants elevators, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-940", "start": 7228.223, "end": 7228.61, "text": "We just—.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-941", "start": 7228.868, "end": 7229.046, "text": "There's—.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-942", "start": 7229.046, "end": 7229.11, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-943", "start": 7229.357, "end": 7232.444, "text": "There's just a big elevator wants to keep them expensive, right?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-944", "start": 7232.525, "end": 7234.885, "text": "And there's other reasons why, and I won't get into that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-945", "start": 7234.95, "end": 7241.103, "text": "But I think if we had more accessible elevators, we could actually do a lot more for the people who need that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-946", "start": 7243.36, "end": 7243.699, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-947", "start": 7245.01, "end": 7245.948, "text": "Did you want to—.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-948", "start": 7247.016, "end": 7254.781, "text": "I think a key to our strategy going forward should be trying to create homes that older Oregonians want to downsize into.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-949", "start": 7255.874, "end": 7263.18, "text": "There are a lot of homes in Portland that are, you know, 1 or 2 people in a 3 to 4 bedroom home.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-950", "start": 7263.405, "end": 7264.802, "text": "In many cases, that's fantastic.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-951", "start": 7264.946, "end": 7268.238, "text": "I don't want anybody to have to move out of that, but lots of people want to move out of that.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-952", "start": 7268.479, "end": 7270.341, "text": "They just need a place to want to move into.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-953", "start": 7271.032, "end": 7275.833, "text": "And this opportunity arises even in a context where we don't have a growing population.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-954", "start": 7276.266, "end": 7280.569, "text": "We have a growing senior population, and we have a huge population of people who would love to move into those larger homes.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-955", "start": 7281.019, "end": 7284.953, "text": "If they were available because somebody decided they wanted to move into a smaller place.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-956", "start": 7285.499, "end": 7288.854, "text": "This makes those smaller places possible on every lot in every neighborhood.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-957", "start": 7289.754, "end": 7290.187, "text": "That's helpful.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-958", "start": 7291.375, "end": 7300.335, "text": "So as you said, Oregon has already adopted portions of this building code, but many— you suggest that very few projects have moved forward.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-959", "start": 7300.447, "end": 7306.099, "text": "So can you just again summarize, like, what do you see is preventing some of these getting built?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-960", "start": 7306.212, "end": 7311.634, "text": "And how much of these challenges are building code itself versus the zoning and permitting and fire bureau?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-961", "start": 7311.699, "end": 7318.203, "text": "Just give us— paint us a picture of like, what are the main barriers that you're seeing to getting this, getting more of these kinds of homes built?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-962", "start": 7322.115, "end": 7326.591, "text": "I mean, not very many homes are being built in Portland right now at the moment because population has been flat.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-963", "start": 7327.09, "end": 7340.012, "text": "And I think we are all— a ton of your work is preparing for the possibility the population starts to grow again and making the most of that when it happens, making sure that catastrophe doesn't follow, right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-964", "start": 7342.936, "end": 7362.469, "text": "The things that are standing in the way of this being part of that future, of single-story buildings being part of that graceful growth in the future, are coming up with some reasonable fire-safe rules that could allow 4, 5, Potentially 6 stories to exist.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-965", "start": 7363.034, "end": 7364.665, "text": "Some of that needs to happen at the state level.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-966", "start": 7364.745, "end": 7368.619, "text": "Some of that code work needs to happen at the state level too, and some of it needs to happen at the local level.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-967", "start": 7368.684, "end": 7370.312, "text": "And I'm not a fire safety expert.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-968", "start": 7370.554, "end": 7379.362, "text": "I'm just trying to have a conversation about the benefit side of the ledger so that people who know more about the trade-offs can think about those.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-969", "start": 7381.262, "end": 7390.596, "text": "I'll weigh in just to say that there are a few single-stair buildings being built in Portland, and there are 3 stories or less.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-970", "start": 7391.255, "end": 7396.223, "text": "And now we went and toured one with the students down on Division.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-971", "start": 7396.48, "end": 7400.77, "text": "Actually, there's a pair of buildings called E and Hutch designed by a firm called Quad Architects.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-972", "start": 7401.541, "end": 7402.312, "text": "They're very nice.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-973", "start": 7402.907, "end": 7404.626, "text": "They're this lovely compact.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-974", "start": 7404.706, "end": 7413.977, "text": "It makes great use of the lot, a small lot that would be, like we've said, it would be difficult to develop with a different kind of building.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-975", "start": 7414.411, "end": 7416.692, "text": "But it's because it's only 3 stories.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-976", "start": 7416.741, "end": 7416.821, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-977", "start": 7419.855, "end": 7425.228, "text": "And partly because of some zoning, some other zoning things that we'd like to change, it had to be 3 stories.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-978", "start": 7428.65, "end": 7428.779, "text": "It—.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-979", "start": 7428.779, "end": 7433.888, "text": "There's only so many of— well, anyhow, I should say because it's only 3 stories, the cost per unit is quite high.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-980", "start": 7434.259, "end": 7436.418, "text": "You aren't able to divide that cost over more units.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-981", "start": 7436.483, "end": 7442.789, "text": "So you do in fact see some of these, you see some 6-plexes and 12-plexes in different parts of the city.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-982", "start": 7443.344, "end": 7448.039, "text": "But we would certainly see more if you could have more units per building.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-983", "start": 7450.024, "end": 7450.218, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-984", "start": 7450.282, "end": 7456.104, "text": "My last question is, you all are arguing that single-stair buildings can unlock housing on smaller infill lots.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-985", "start": 7456.168, "end": 7457.635, "text": "That seems to be a big part of this.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-986", "start": 7458.455, "end": 7466.845, "text": "So do you have a sense of how many sites across Portland could become more developable if those remaining barriers were addressed?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-987", "start": 7466.893, "end": 7474.06, "text": "Like, I'm just trying to get a sense for what can we I did some math.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-988", "start": 7474.109, "end": 7474.847, "text": "I'm happy to send it to you.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-989", "start": 7474.927, "end": 7476.324, "text": "It's in the order of tens of thousands.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-990", "start": 7476.662, "end": 7479.455, "text": "Yeah, tens of thousands.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-991", "start": 7479.728, "end": 7481.495, "text": "Okay, well, that feels urgent to me.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-992", "start": 7482.121, "end": 7488.511, "text": "Um, thank you again for the conversation, and, um, also just want to thank the student design competition.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-993", "start": 7488.624, "end": 7498.284, "text": "It's really encouraging to see emerging designers thinking creatively about how Portland can grow while maintaining our So thank you again for leading on that.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-994", "start": 7499.221, "end": 7502.678, "text": "And with that, I'll pass it to our next person in queue, which is Vice Chair Green.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-995", "start": 7504.29, "end": 7506.673, "text": "Thank you so much, Chair Avalos, and thanks for scheduling this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-996", "start": 7508.45, "end": 7529.219, "text": "You know, I, I was really honored to receive the invitation to help be a judge on this panel, and I was really grateful that you wanted to kind of help bring this, because I think that a lot of what we talk about up here It's sometimes unpleasant where we're initiating a foreclosure action or we're doing something that's extremely wonky and frankly boring.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-997", "start": 7529.977, "end": 7531.268, "text": "Important, but frankly boring.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-998", "start": 7531.316, "end": 7544.997, "text": "And so envisioning what our city could look like and it'd be a beautiful transformation of our housing stock, I think is really important for connecting kind of that future vision state with Portlanders.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-999", "start": 7545.045, "end": 7548.152, "text": "So then they can see it and they can see it in a way that's They can say, yeah, I'm going to stay here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1000", "start": 7548.216, "end": 7552.176, "text": "I'm looking forward to the opportunity to move in one of these buildings later on down the road.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1001", "start": 7553.108, "end": 7563.631, "text": "And I want to talk through just briefly off the top of my head some of the designs I looked at that frankly kind of brought me to tears as I was evaluating them.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1002", "start": 7563.695, "end": 7576.591, "text": "There was one in particular, Councilor Koyama Lane, because I know this is an issue you care a lot about, is like the ability to age in place, the ability to kind of like, are we building houses and spaces and neighborhoods for the entire spectrum of generations?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1003", "start": 7577.217, "end": 7583.41, "text": "And there was one design that a student put forward that was like really all about modularity.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1004", "start": 7584.1, "end": 7591.463, "text": "And it was like building out a space where you can move walls, like, and create sub little rooms inside larger rooms.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1005", "start": 7591.576, "end": 7597.335, "text": "So like, for instance, you've got a new child and you want a little special nursery for that kid.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1006", "start": 7597.512, "end": 7602.264, "text": "And then once they've grown, then you move a wall and it's all on this track system and now you've got a larger bedroom.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1007", "start": 7602.81, "end": 7615.286, "text": "And then there was this other envision where like, you know, with these plans you might envision a sort of like, it's almost like an accessory dwelling unit for like a mother-in-law suite as someone is retiring and wants to be in the house.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1008", "start": 7615.399, "end": 7621.677, "text": "So they really leaned into this idea of multi-generation housing inside of a multifamily lot.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1009", "start": 7621.982, "end": 7623.074, "text": "And that got me a little Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1010", "start": 7623.218, "end": 7626.673, "text": "It's a little closer to what I saw in Europe when I did my trip to Vienna.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1011", "start": 7626.737, "end": 7632.633, "text": "There was a lot of housing stock just like that that was built as workforce housing or sort of all ages, stages, and wages housing.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1012", "start": 7632.681, "end": 7639.06, "text": "And so just kind of seeing that that's what the students were dreaming up, given the design parameters, was really inspiring.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1013", "start": 7639.108, "end": 7641.02, "text": "And it kind of keeps you connected to the work.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1014", "start": 7641.277, "end": 7643.076, "text": "And it makes it really urgent to ask the boring questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1015", "start": 7643.124, "end": 7646.804, "text": "Like, so I'll get there, and that's where I'm going with this.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1016", "start": 7646.9, "end": 7649.842, "text": "But so accessibility is kind of at the Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1017", "start": 7649.988, "end": 7656.177, "text": "'Cause there's a lot of different ways, like you might have imagined, even going beyond Class A accessibility, which is what I saw in some of these designs.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1018", "start": 7658.835, "end": 7666.279, "text": "But Wes, you had said something about single stair could provide maybe more solution space.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1019", "start": 7666.473, "end": 7677.441, "text": "So more developers who maybe can't play at the level of the multi-hundred million dollar project player, but can do something at a much smaller scale.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1020", "start": 7677.554, "end": 7683.109, "text": "Like, that opens up a sort of broader portfolio of capabilities and talent.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1021", "start": 7683.495, "end": 7700.242, "text": "When I heard that, I was thinking that there are sort of cost hurdle barriers to the firms who can be involved, which also implies that the kind of money that comes into the capital stack depends upon your access to international capital markets that are quite frozen, frankly, right now.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1022", "start": 7700.932, "end": 7717.184, "text": "And so do you see this as an opportunity for us to say, if we can make some policy changes at the local level and in partnership with the state, then we are basically sort of lowering that hurdle rate so it's less expensive to invest and kind of get the job done?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1023", "start": 7717.682, "end": 7727.822, "text": "Yeah, I have 3 projects right now that were put on hold recently in the past 8 months, all which are really close to Financial feasibility, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1024", "start": 7727.87, "end": 7736.842, "text": "The STC waivers help a lot, but we reworked the numbers and we're still just a couple units shy of something that they're interested in actually putting their money towards.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1025", "start": 7737.195, "end": 7741.175, "text": "And these are, you know, they're, you know, $2 to $3 million, $4 million buildings.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1026", "start": 7741.304, "end": 7743.262, "text": "That's a lot of money to a lot of people, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1027", "start": 7743.438, "end": 7760.893, "text": "But, you know, to certain investors, that's something that they're, you know, somebody, you know, these are employed people, lawyers, doctors, You know, people in tech who, you know, have gotten together with friends of theirs and they want to invest in real estate right here in Portland because they believe in Portland, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1028", "start": 7760.957, "end": 7764.46, "text": "So this isn't, you know, this isn't large institutional money.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1029", "start": 7764.797, "end": 7768.75, "text": "And we're really close to being able to pull the trigger on some of these buildings, but right now we can't.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1030", "start": 7768.846, "end": 7775.53, "text": "If we were able to add another floor or add some FAR to these buildings, you know, I'd like to say that we could build more.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1031", "start": 7776.702, "end": 7809.71, "text": "Now that probably also implies that, If we're imagining other types of homeownership models, like limited equity co-ops, for instance, your ability to pool capital from like maybe a group of 19, 20 prospector buyers into a building from the start where you sort of get together and choose an architecture from the start, like then your hurdle rate's also lower for that group of pooled kind of, for lack of a better term, Yeah, absolutely.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1032", "start": 7809.71, "end": 7822.81, "text": "I think there's some sort of some hurdles at the state level, you know, and that maybe Michael could speak to better than I can about some liability around sort of the 10-year, you know, condo stuff, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1033", "start": 7822.81, "end": 7827.03, "text": "That kind of restricts some of these sort of flat-type condo housings currently.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1034", "start": 7827.36, "end": 7830.19, "text": "But if it weren't for some of those barriers, I think we'd see a lot more of this in Portland.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1035", "start": 7830.19, "end": 7830.33, "text": "Yeah, I think that's a more great point.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-1036", "start": 7830.927, "end": 7833.002, "text": "Flat-type condos come around again.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1037", "start": 7833.213, "end": 7844.785, "text": "And this is a kind of product where, you know, if you could have a 3-bedroom flat, you know, in a close-in neighborhood for a reasonable price, like, that would be pretty awesome.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1038", "start": 7846.488, "end": 7846.995, "text": "That's great.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1039", "start": 7847.142, "end": 7861, "text": "I think that it's gonna be a while before we've— the interest rate environment's still not great, and I think it's gonna be a while before there's a big pile of magic money that we can just throw subsidy cash at.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1040", "start": 7861.113, "end": 7878.165, "text": "And so being able to take whatever measures that we can to provide more solution space, I think there was a metric there that said something like going from sub-90% efficiency to 92% efficiency, that like in dollars and cents, like give me a sense of scale.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1041", "start": 7878.229, "end": 7880.268, "text": "Like what does that do to the price of a unit?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1042", "start": 7880.541, "end": 7881.2, "text": "Like how does that pencil out?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1043", "start": 7881.264, "end": 7884.985, "text": "So in the most the most recent study I did over the past few days in preparation for this, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1044", "start": 7885.05, "end": 7890.086, "text": "Looking at a 50 by 100 lot and assuming, you know, some make-believe zoning, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1045", "start": 7891.048, "end": 7893.55, "text": "So RM-3, RM-4 or something, a hybrid of that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1046", "start": 7894.015, "end": 7903.542, "text": "I was basically calculating on the low end an 11% increase per floor plate and then all the way up to 16% depending on different finishes.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1047", "start": 7903.655, "end": 7909.653, "text": "So, you know, really at 11%, that's still 1 in 10 free units essentially, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1048", "start": 7909.749, "end": 7911.595, "text": "Or the ability to reduce the price by that much.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1049", "start": 7911.996, "end": 7914.485, "text": "At 16%, that's really meaningful.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1050", "start": 7914.951, "end": 7916.331, "text": "So I don't know.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1051", "start": 7916.476, "end": 7921.566, "text": "I mean, I got— the more I dove into this over the past week or so in preparation for this, the more excited I got.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1052", "start": 7921.63, "end": 7922.674, "text": "I think it's a really good idea.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1053", "start": 7923.798, "end": 7935.648, "text": "And finally, I think just to kind of go back to this question, I think the comment was made, I can't remember who made the comment, but Michael, I think you made the comment that our slow housing production is largely a function of our slow population growth.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1054", "start": 7937.124, "end": 7938.796, "text": "And that's like a supply and demand argument.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1055", "start": 7940.748, "end": 7960.009, "text": "And I think that's right, but I think if we wait for the population to come back to then adopt this, then we're gonna be in scarcity conditions where you're gonna drive that displacement risk much higher than if we were to sort of move forward now to create extra capacity in terms of like the buildable lots, so to speak.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1056", "start": 7961.948, "end": 7962.96, "text": "Is that the right way to think about it?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1057", "start": 7963.458, "end": 7970.731, "text": "Yeah, the lower Wes's costs get, the less we have to wait for prices to rise before his investors can invest, right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1058", "start": 7970.844, "end": 7975.741, "text": "So like, we can wait for the population to rise and for the prices to rise and for more homes to be built.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1059", "start": 7975.821, "end": 7978.663, "text": "That's how we've always done it in the past, but that's not the best way to do it.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1060", "start": 7978.711, "end": 7982.806, "text": "The best way to do it is to cut the costs so the prices don't have to rise before the homes can be built.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1061", "start": 7983.207, "end": 7987.061, "text": "That's what I hope— hoping— I was hoping you would say that in your own words, so thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1062", "start": 7987.546, "end": 7991.942, "text": "Yeah, I think this is great work, and, um, yeah, obviously I'm a fan.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1063", "start": 7992.268, "end": 7992.659, "text": "Thanks so much.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1064", "start": 7995.01, "end": 7995.576, "text": "Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1065", "start": 7995.915, "end": 7997.759, "text": "Thank you, Chair Avalos.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1066", "start": 7997.873, "end": 7999.167, "text": "Thank you all for being here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1067", "start": 7999.959, "end": 8027.46, "text": "Um, you know, there's some really inspirational pieces to some of these designs that you brought forward, and I wish that we were in a space— and I know it will require a lot of different things to move us in that I mean, imagine having some of the units that are being built in Portland today have those modular walls or those accessibility features.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1068", "start": 8028.121, "end": 8031.17, "text": "And there really isn't anything right now that prevents that, right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1069", "start": 8032.154, "end": 8047.836, "text": "Those came forward in a design competition focused on single stairway because design competition are where students are able to highlight really cool cutting-edge pieces, but this change doesn't lead to those things, does it?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1070", "start": 8053.588, "end": 8054.297, "text": "Not necessarily.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1071", "start": 8054.957, "end": 8071.345, "text": "Um, you're, you're right on in pointing out that there is a— there is— the design competition has a role, and the role is not to show us exactly what will be built under the most realistic scenarios.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1072", "start": 8071.442, "end": 8083.492, "text": "But the role is to, because it's so valuable to dream big, like you said, and it's valuable for the students, of course, as well to explore and to try out new things.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1073", "start": 8084.661, "end": 8105.036, "text": "I think all 3 of us would say that all the same, we, by opening doors, speaking of accessibility, Accessibility in elevators and everything, you make these outcomes more likely and more likely in certain situations.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1074", "start": 8105.132, "end": 8114.763, "text": "There's a vast range of different buildings being built in the city, and no one can see them all or know what they are like.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1075", "start": 8114.923, "end": 8131.659, "text": "But by increasing the options about what people are allowed to build and by increasing the flexibility and reducing the costs, those are exactly what you would want to do to create a greater wealth of options and creativity.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1076", "start": 8132.478, "end": 8132.911, "text": "Absolutely.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1077", "start": 8132.975, "end": 8138.178, "text": "And I think finding ways to decrease costs is certainly important.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1078", "start": 8139.382, "end": 8150.789, "text": "The presentation today, you didn't talk about a specific number of stories you would want to see single stairway allowed in.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1079", "start": 8150.886, "end": 8159.921, "text": "I don't know if that means you're hoping for any number of floors or if there's another level that you think would be an appropriate cap.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1080", "start": 8160.324, "end": 8161.325, "text": "You don't need to answer that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1081", "start": 8161.389, "end": 8162.034, "text": "That's okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1082", "start": 8163.002, "end": 8171.142, "text": "But I say that to say it seemed to me that a lot of what you were talking about focused on a 5 or a 6-story level.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1083", "start": 8171.223, "end": 8171.352, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1084", "start": 8172.177, "end": 8176.238, "text": "Under state building code, because we are beholden to state building code, right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1085", "start": 8176.303, "end": 8178.503, "text": "We have that single code in our state.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1086", "start": 8180.08, "end": 8184.439, "text": "What level are single stairways allowed until?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1087", "start": 8184.488, "end": 8185.311, "text": "Is it the 4?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1088", "start": 8186.07, "end": 8189.786, "text": "I think that's what you said at the beginning, or is it allowed until 5 or 6?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1089", "start": 8191.339, "end": 8197.875, "text": "So the current building code in the state, the base building code, allows 3 stories.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1090", "start": 8198.915, "end": 8202.601, "text": "The Appendix Q that was adopted in response to the recent legislation—.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1091", "start": 8202.94, "end": 8203.102, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1092", "start": 8203.425, "end": 8209.737, "text": "Allows a 4th story under certain conditions, and then it also requires sign-off by the local fire service.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1093", "start": 8210.204, "end": 8216.355, "text": "So even if we were to make the changes at the city level, that would allow up to 4 stories.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1094", "start": 8216.419, "end": 8218.003, "text": "It would be 1 additional story.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1095", "start": 8218.521, "end": 8223.989, "text": "State code has a limitation, a hard cap at 4 stories.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1096", "start": 8224.138, "end": 8225.399, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1097", "start": 8226.142, "end": 8226.611, "text": "It does today.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1098", "start": 8227.031, "end": 8227.274, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1099", "start": 8227.338, "end": 8230.894, "text": "Many of the states that I mentioned have gone further, and the state may go further in the future.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1100", "start": 8232.426, "end": 8236.334, "text": "Um, and you had some numbers about cost savings.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1101", "start": 8237.271, "end": 8241.895, "text": "I think they were $10,000 per unit.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1102", "start": 8242.235, "end": 8243.079, "text": "Is that accurate?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1103", "start": 8243.437, "end": 8245.027, "text": "Do I remember that correctly in the presentation?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1104", "start": 8247.399, "end": 8253.359, "text": "Um, I could tell you, and, and this is based So it was based on just one model, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1105", "start": 8253.601, "end": 8261.456, "text": "And that model assumes 2,500 square foot floor plates and a certain fit and finish, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1106", "start": 8261.505, "end": 8263.472, "text": "I mean, I have to create some sort of baseline, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1107", "start": 8263.52, "end": 8271.326, "text": "So it was based on a building that we built on North Killingsworth at $278,000 per unit.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1108", "start": 8272.472, "end": 8280.969, "text": "With an additional floor, we ended up at $251,000 at 5 floors, 236, and then at 6 at 226.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1109", "start": 8280.969, "end": 8290.289, "text": "That 6th floor I'm gonna put an asterisk on because with 6 floors based on the current building codes, we wouldn't be able to build 5 stories of wood frame construction.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1110", "start": 8290.309, "end": 8291.109, "text": "We'd have to add concrete.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1111", "start": 8291.509, "end": 8293.869, "text": "So that's probably not a realistic number.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1112", "start": 8293.869, "end": 8296.949, "text": "So about 15,000, 10,000 to 15,000.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1113", "start": 8296.949, "end": 8298.789, "text": "10,000 To 15,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1114", "start": 8298.789, "end": 8299.439, "text": "More.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1115", "start": 8299.449, "end": 8300.009, "text": "Oh no, it's quite a bit more.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1116", "start": 8300.009, "end": 8300.929, "text": "It's a lot more than that.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1117", "start": 8300.929, "end": 8302.929, "text": "So we're talking up to 40,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1118", "start": 8303.08, "end": 8307.84, "text": "$10,000 Or more per, like once you add, get up to the 5th floor?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1119", "start": 8307.84, "end": 8308.26, "text": "Per floor.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1120", "start": 8308.26, "end": 8311.64, "text": "Per floor, it sounded like it was $10,000 to $15,000 per unit.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1121", "start": 8311.64, "end": 8312.4, "text": "Per unit.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1122", "start": 8312.4, "end": 8313, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1123", "start": 8313, "end": 8320.66, "text": "And that's not the sales price reduction, that's the reduction in the cost of building that unit.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1124", "start": 8320.66, "end": 8321.5, "text": "Is that accurate?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1125", "start": 8322.04, "end": 8322.46, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1126", "start": 8322.46, "end": 8330.44, "text": "And we can just always assume that our sales price is going to be highly correlated to our construction costs because that's—.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1127", "start": 8330.44, "end": 8336.82, "text": "It's $10,000 to $15,000 less per unit for construction, maybe it's, I don't know, $7,000 to $12,000 less in sales price.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1128", "start": 8336.82, "end": 8342.96, "text": "But we, sorry, to be clear, it was $40,000 per unit less was the number.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1129", "start": 8342.96, "end": 8344.62, "text": "I'm not hearing $40,000.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1130", "start": 8344.62, "end": 8346.5, "text": "I'm sorry, I want to—.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1131", "start": 8346.5, "end": 8346.9, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1132", "start": 8346.9, "end": 8352.69, "text": "We heard a lot in the presentation about all of the many benefits we're trying to get to.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1133", "start": 8352.92, "end": 8360.659, "text": "And this one panacea, a single stairway, And I didn't hear the connection between those 2 things.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1134", "start": 8360.708, "end": 8365.878, "text": "And I have some questions about that later, but I'm trying to understand the basic facts here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1135", "start": 8365.959, "end": 8375.594, "text": "'Cause there was like, like I said, it sounded like this presentation is saying this is a panacea to get everything we need fixed in our housing structure.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1136", "start": 8375.658, "end": 8377.835, "text": "And I just don't think any one thing is gonna do that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1137", "start": 8378.112, "end": 8378.258, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1138", "start": 8378.307, "end": 8388.099, "text": "So I'd like to make sure these numbers are accurate because you're saying 40,000, What I saw on the numbers you put up and heard you just say was $10,000 to $15,000 per unit per floor.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1139", "start": 8388.66, "end": 8389.734, "text": "Right, so let me clarify.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1140", "start": 8389.862, "end": 8401.287, "text": "So our baseline at 2,500 square feet per floor plate at 3 stories, which is 7,500 square feet, is $278,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1141", "start": 8401.416, "end": 8405.742, "text": "And that's based on real-world construction on a building we recently completed, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1142", "start": 8406.143, "end": 8419.839, "text": "If I took those same costs, right, and I took essentially the fixed costs like the roof, the foundation, you know, the utilities and all of the things that I could identify in the budget that are more or less, you know, gonna basically not be a part of this.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1143", "start": 8419.888, "end": 8420.858, "text": "You need those no matter what.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1144", "start": 8421.117, "end": 8422.087, "text": "Right, right.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1145", "start": 8422.152, "end": 8425.127, "text": "And then I divide the rest by each floor plate.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1146", "start": 8425.531, "end": 8429.923, "text": "I can sort of extrapolate, right, what each additional unit savings there would be.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1147", "start": 8430.455, "end": 8436.101, "text": "So at 4 floors, 15 homes, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1148", "start": 8436.635, "end": 8437.445, "text": "At about $251,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1149", "start": 8438.65, "end": 8447.573, "text": "So the additional floor is saving $17,000, sorry, $27,000 per unit, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1150", "start": 8447.637, "end": 8449.445, "text": "By adding one additional floor.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1151", "start": 8450.461, "end": 8454.751, "text": "Then at 5 floors, that nets 19 total units, right?", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1152", "start": 8454.932, "end": 8459.192, "text": "And we get down to $236,000, which is a difference in $20,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1153", "start": 8459.292, "end": 8460.006, "text": "$20,000.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1154", "start": 8460.89, "end": 8461.54, "text": "Sorry.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1155", "start": 8461.54, "end": 8461.8, "text": "$42,000.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1156", "start": 8461.8, "end": 8463.9, "text": "Yeah, $42,000.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1157", "start": 8463.9, "end": 8465.66, "text": "And where I added the asterisk—.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1158", "start": 8465.66, "end": 8469.78, "text": "I'm sorry, $251,000 to $236,000 is not $42,000.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1159", "start": 8469.78, "end": 8473.14, "text": "Just going the baseline currently allowed today, right?", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1160", "start": 8473.14, "end": 8474.06, "text": "3 floors.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1161", "start": 8474.06, "end": 8481.32, "text": "So it's going from the baseline, what's allowed today, to what we would, to allowing 5 floors.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1162", "start": 8481.32, "end": 8483.96, "text": "That's the, you get $42,000 in benefit.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1163", "start": 8483.96, "end": 8484.48, "text": "Total.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1164", "start": 8484.48, "end": 8486.04, "text": "Right, from $278,000 at the 3 floors.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1165", "start": 8487.254, "end": 8488.904, "text": "So for 2 floors—.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1166", "start": 8488.969, "end": 8490.101, "text": "For 2 floors additional.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1167", "start": 8490.376, "end": 8492.43, "text": "Okay, and I was trying to get the number per floor.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1168", "start": 8492.818, "end": 8493.724, "text": "Okay, apologies.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1169", "start": 8493.853, "end": 8498.072, "text": "Right, okay, it's not per floor, it's per unit, and that's why it continues to scale.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1170", "start": 8499.536, "end": 8500.083, "text": "Understood.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1171", "start": 8500.277, "end": 8500.438, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1172", "start": 8500.76, "end": 8504.237, "text": "I'm sorry, per unit per floor was the number I was trying to get to there.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1173", "start": 8504.318, "end": 8504.833, "text": "Oh, okay, right.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1174", "start": 8504.881, "end": 8508.874, "text": "So per unit for 2 floors, you're saying $42,000.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1175", "start": 8508.954, "end": 8509.099, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1176", "start": 8512.019, "end": 8524.761, "text": "I'm just trying— so per unit for a single floor addition, it scales, but we're talking about for the first floor, $20,000 to $30,000.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1177", "start": 8525.825, "end": 8536.901, "text": "Then it sounded like it was about $15,000, then $10,000 per floor that we add per unit, that the construction cost goes down, the sales cost goes down some amount of that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1178", "start": 8536.967, "end": 8537.033, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1179", "start": 8537.17, "end": 8537.346, "text": "That.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1180", "start": 8537.426, "end": 8540.999, "text": "We don't really know how much cost savings, but some portion of that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1181", "start": 8541.608, "end": 8548.067, "text": "I think it's safe to assume that it would be directly proportional because we're always having to make some profit even on the baseline.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1182", "start": 8548.195, "end": 8550.278, "text": "So if we say our profit's always, you know—.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1183", "start": 8550.278, "end": 8552.73, "text": "So it's a portion of it.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1184", "start": 8552.81, "end": 8553.082, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1185", "start": 8553.387, "end": 8554.605, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1186", "start": 8556.095, "end": 8560.582, "text": "And you had said something about tens of thousands of lots that could be affected by this.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1187", "start": 8561.48, "end": 8574.311, "text": "Is that the total Is that the total number of 5,000-square-foot lots in the city that you were referring to, or is that based on some sort of criteria around how likely something would be to be redeveloped?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1188", "start": 8574.392, "end": 8578.231, "text": "What is— what should we expect that number to actually mean?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1189", "start": 8578.664, "end": 8582.648, "text": "It's been a little while since I put that memo together, but that actually speaks to your earlier question.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1190", "start": 8582.744, "end": 8585.122, "text": "I appreciate the questions about cost reduction.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1191", "start": 8585.491, "end": 8593.775, "text": "The other calculation here for the sort of calculating the possible benefit of the policy is it greatly increases the size of the denominator, right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1192", "start": 8593.855, "end": 8600.463, "text": "The number of possible lots where you can add housing increases the taller you can go, right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1193", "start": 8600.575, "end": 8604.777, "text": "So are you looking at total number of 5,000-square-foot lots?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1194", "start": 8604.985, "end": 8608.321, "text": "Right, no, there's vastly more 5,000-square-foot lots in the city.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1195", "start": 8608.979, "end": 8625.9, "text": "What I did for that calculation was I assumed a certain low development value on the existing lot, and then I took a low percentage percentage of that share to estimate the number that would turn over in a given year and the number that would develop in a given year and so on.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1196", "start": 8625.964, "end": 8627.416, "text": "Okay, that's really helpful.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1197", "start": 8627.464, "end": 8627.755, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1198", "start": 8627.803, "end": 8629.255, "text": "It would be great to see those numbers.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1199", "start": 8629.4, "end": 8632.686, "text": "It sounds like you have a report that includes them somewhere that's separate from this.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1200", "start": 8632.977, "end": 8639.338, "text": "Okay, um, I want to go back to the question I asked about state building code.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1201", "start": 8640.241, "end": 8656.898, "text": "At one point, I don't remember who, but somebody talked about sprinklers as a and maybe the safety information that's out there, at least on the life safety side, isn't as great as some have portrayed.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1202", "start": 8657.716, "end": 8661.358, "text": "When do sprinklers become required under our state building code?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1203", "start": 8661.439, "end": 8665.562, "text": "I'm sorry, I should know this, and it's been a few years since I worked on state building code issues.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1204", "start": 8665.834, "end": 8672.027, "text": "Yeah, so the 3-story building that we're using as the baseline is required, like it's already, sprinklers are already required.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1205", "start": 8672.156, "end": 8676.154, "text": "And then any building that would be 4 or 5 or 6, they all require sprinklers.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1206", "start": 8677.213, "end": 8689.352, "text": "And so then there are other thresholds depending on which type of 3-story building you build and which type of essentially addressable system, right, is in effect.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1207", "start": 8689.416, "end": 8691.166, "text": "And this is your fire alarm system.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1208", "start": 8691.439, "end": 8691.985, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1209", "start": 8692.402, "end": 8695.148, "text": "But I believe recently that was also upgraded.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1210", "start": 8695.196, "end": 8703.084, "text": "So any 4-story building, any sort of taller building That's helpful.", "speaker": "Wes Ayers" }, { "id": "cue-1211", "start": 8703.132, "end": 8703.438, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1212", "start": 8704.323, "end": 8708.64, "text": "I have like 10 more questions that came up during the presentation.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1213", "start": 8708.722, "end": 8711.413, "text": "I'll hold those, but I do want to make a few comments.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1214", "start": 8714.223, "end": 8723.215, "text": "There was a lot in that presentation where I am worried that we are confusing cause and effect, or maybe seeing a single solution as a panacea.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1215", "start": 8723.279, "end": 8723.376, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1216", "start": 8725.362, "end": 8731.223, "text": "To fix all of the problems we have in our housing market right now.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1217", "start": 8731.64, "end": 8737.051, "text": "And that concerns me because there are Portlanders who are listening, maybe only 5, as the chair has said.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1218", "start": 8737.244, "end": 8741.242, "text": "I assume that more people listen and that we're far more popular than that though, Chair Avalos.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1219", "start": 8742.559, "end": 8743.217, "text": "Maybe 6.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1220", "start": 8743.345, "end": 8748.451, "text": "And I don't want people to think that this one change is going to fix everything.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1221", "start": 8749.463, "end": 8750.394, "text": "Because I don't think it will.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1222", "start": 8751.39, "end": 8760.269, "text": "There was a great picture that you all had on slide 21 about a common lobby with 3 units around it.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1223", "start": 8761.666, "end": 8774.319, "text": "But I could draw a line between units 1 and 2 and draw a stairwell on the side, and we would still have a common lobby and have a secondary stairwell and only slightly diminish the total number of units.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1224", "start": 8774.56, "end": 8779.971, "text": "Total square footage of those units and have that, that safety escape there.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1225", "start": 8780.773, "end": 8795.722, "text": "And so I'm struggling to understand why all of the many problems you named are solvable only if we move to a single stairwell and not if we design differently with 2 stairwells.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1226", "start": 8796.814, "end": 8799.592, "text": "I understand that there is some mixed data around life safety.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1227", "start": 8799.64, "end": 8800.009, "text": "I think that's a fair point.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1228", "start": 8801.136, "end": 8801.491, "text": "Safety.", "speaker": "Unidentified speaker" }, { "id": "cue-1229", "start": 8801.653, "end": 8810.272, "text": "And when we talk about life safety, if we mean strictly people dying, newer buildings mean fewer people die.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1230", "start": 8810.402, "end": 8817.346, "text": "So yes, if there is a single stairwell in a newer building compared to an older building, absolutely people are safer.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1231", "start": 8819.347, "end": 8821.802, "text": "But we still have impact.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1232", "start": 8822.173, "end": 8830.282, "text": "We still have firefighters who can't move smoke to one stairwell while evacuating people down another.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1233", "start": 8831.09, "end": 8840.389, "text": "We still have firefighters trying to evacuate people with mobility challenges down the same stairwell that hose lines are coming up, right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1234", "start": 8840.437, "end": 8851.134, "text": "There are still— it still takes longer to evacuate a building, especially if it's a larger building, which means there's more smoke inhalation and long-term health impacts.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1235", "start": 8852.013, "end": 8865.847, "text": "So when we narrow our concern to life safety, meaning people who die, we're missing the extra work, the extra firefighters who are needed who can't respond to other calls, the longer-term health impacts.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1236", "start": 8866.933, "end": 8895.183, "text": "And it may be that we ultimately need to move in this direction, but I am struggling with thinking that what I'm hearing here is that we need to take on a risk, because it is a risk, in order to get any of these benefits, in order to get units that have 2 sides of light or that can have smaller buildings, right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1237", "start": 8895.424, "end": 8912.458, "text": "I heard a lot of conversation about long, dark stairwells in big buildings compared to common common areas, but what we were shown were pictures of long, huge buildings compared to a few small buildings on the same lot.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1238", "start": 8912.634, "end": 8920.39, "text": "Well, we can do that again, back to slide 21, with a single stairwell still.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1239", "start": 8920.775, "end": 8929.462, "text": "And if we need to talk about distance between stairwells so that we can have smaller buildings, let's talk about that, but still have that benefit.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1240", "start": 8929.51, "end": 8929.879, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1241", "start": 8933.115, "end": 8949.989, "text": "I would love to see us, or maybe even be part of a broader conversation about what Portlanders want to see on what we've historically considered single-family lots that now actually have a lot of flexibility to build in many different ways on them, those 5,000-square-foot lots.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1242", "start": 8952.778, "end": 8971.307, "text": "But I'm hearing a whole lot of concerns brought up, and I'm I'm not seeing the line between this one change, which does bring those safety risks, and all of the many solutions or all of the many problems that it seems to be solving.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1243", "start": 8972.08, "end": 8974.093, "text": "I just, I don't see that in the pictures we're showing.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1244", "start": 8974.222, "end": 8980.875, "text": "So, Chair, I assume that we're getting this presentation because I think you and your Vice Chair are really interested in this policy change.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1245", "start": 8981.943, "end": 9025.17, "text": "And I want to say all of that because I am very concerned that we are conflating what could be an important policy change but brings with it real risk that I think is being downplayed with building types that are so different from what we're being shown this would be So I hope that if we're going to talk about policy here, we do it in a way that is much more— that is tighter and that is clear about what the actual benefits from a single change would be and honest about what the risks would be.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1246", "start": 9026.84, "end": 9027.05, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1247", "start": 9028.829, "end": 9029.622, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1248", "start": 9029.703, "end": 9030.204, "text": "Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1249", "start": 9030.269, "end": 9031.806, "text": "Thank you, Madam Chair.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1250", "start": 9032.356, "end": 9033.812, "text": "And Councilor Herbold, I think you're right.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1251", "start": 9034.984, "end": 9045.708, "text": "Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, as a baseball fan, you should know that there's no such thing as a panacea for anything, because if Shohei Ohtani can play for the California Angels and the Angels can still suck, that just shows that no one thing solves anything in the world.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1252", "start": 9047.169, "end": 9049.063, "text": "Thanks for asking the question about sprinkler requirements.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1253", "start": 9049.111, "end": 9050.059, "text": "I was going to ask that too.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1254", "start": 9050.171, "end": 9064.364, "text": "I'm looking at this Pew study from, I think, early last year that said that construction— that the requirement of a double stairway adds about 6 to 13% to construction costs in a 4 to 6 story building on a small lot.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1255", "start": 9065.087, "end": 9086.595, "text": "One of the things it said, which I've now lost and can't find, but it said that you could have, in addition, if you're going to allow single stairway buildings, you could add additional safety requirements such as reducing floor area or requiring smoke control measures or insisting on short distance to exits.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1256", "start": 9087.078, "end": 9095.5, "text": "And I was just wondering if those are options that you've seen play out in Seattle or New York.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1257", "start": 9095.548, "end": 9097.259, "text": "Have those kind of requirements been adopted?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1258", "start": 9097.808, "end": 9106.064, "text": "And if they were adopted, what do you think the cost would be and how much would that limit the positive cost impact of allowing single stairway buildings?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1259", "start": 9107.859, "end": 9112.222, "text": "I think that all those are part of the Seattle code as I understand it.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1260", "start": 9114.269, "end": 9117.344, "text": "Most of those are part of Appendix Q as well.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1261", "start": 9118.133, "end": 9125.909, "text": "So we're certainly talking about a multivariable situation where some things trigger at different heights.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1262", "start": 9126.249, "end": 9131.389, "text": "So you get full sprinkler coverage with the 4th story when it would've previously been the 5th story, things like that.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1263", "start": 9133.848, "end": 9133.945, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1264", "start": 9134.25, "end": 9136.839, "text": "What smoke control measures can you adopt?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1265", "start": 9137.483, "end": 9142.774, "text": "I think that might be a reference to the pressurization of the stairwell That Seattle requires.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1266", "start": 9142.822, "end": 9147.396, "text": "So they require essentially you put a fan, as I understand it, not my expertise, at the top of the stairwell.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1267", "start": 9147.782, "end": 9148.231, "text": "Does that seem right?", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1268", "start": 9148.889, "end": 9154.25, "text": "And I've heard different reports, including from people in the fire service, about how effective that actually is as an active system.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1269", "start": 9154.683, "end": 9163.879, "text": "But that's something that Seattle decided to put in as a way to ensure that smoke is not flowing into the stairwell during an event when there's smoke in one unit.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1270", "start": 9164.698, "end": 9173.527, "text": "And do you have, like, the names of actual people in Seattle or New York that we could call to sort of You know, ask them, you know, their perspective on what they've done.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1271", "start": 9173.882, "end": 9181.291, "text": "I promise you that the Seattle Fire and Building Code folks are sick of getting this call from every city in the country.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1272", "start": 9182.056, "end": 9189.926, "text": "But yeah, there's— so I do not know the names myself.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1273", "start": 9190.282, "end": 9190.881, "text": "Maybe somebody else does.", "speaker": "Michael Anderson" }, { "id": "cue-1274", "start": 9194.589, "end": 9195.581, "text": "I don't need to have it today.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1275", "start": 9195.78, "end": 9204.289, "text": "I was just wondering if you, you know, If you could find the least sick Seattle Building Code person to call, that would be great, 'cause I really would like to do that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1276", "start": 9206.52, "end": 9208.67, "text": "You think one of you might be able to find a name?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1277", "start": 9210.42, "end": 9210.644, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Kevin Foster" }, { "id": "cue-1278", "start": 9211.255, "end": 9211.544, "text": "Certainly.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1279", "start": 9212.621, "end": 9213.087, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1280", "start": 9215.513, "end": 9216.044, "text": "Vice Chair Green?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1281", "start": 9217.843, "end": 9221.566, "text": "Yeah, I just wanted to address some of Councilor Pirtle-Guiney's comments and concerns.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1282", "start": 9223.361, "end": 9251.35, "text": "I think just to level set here, the invitation to have the presentation was to— I don't have any immediate policy goals here, nor does the chair, aside from my just general interest in upzoning, which I think has been abundantly clear across a range of issues, but was a desire to see opportunities to pull into this committee some of the interesting conversations that are relevant I think it's really important to have conversations that are relevant to the committee that are informal and then happen outside of it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1283", "start": 9251.35, "end": 9259.73, "text": "'Cause I had the opportunity to be part of a conversation with a bunch of design students and some practitioners, some architects, some developers.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1284", "start": 9259.73, "end": 9266.39, "text": "And being able to share that with members of the committee who have a vote and a voice here felt like a really good use of time.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1285", "start": 9267.49, "end": 9268.87, "text": "But then also to have this dialogue.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1286", "start": 9270.43, "end": 9286.472, "text": "So I— if we were to adopt anything that's not already on the books, It wouldn't pass muster if we couldn't answer very clearly, like, what all of the trade-offs are and what sort of, like, interactions there are with life safety and the like.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1287", "start": 9287.626, "end": 9308.863, "text": "I think part of the purpose here was to also recognize that even under allowable circumstances that have already been adopted, it's challenging to even do what we're allowed to do because we've got some other other sort of corner pieces that haven't been solved for that are frankly on the administrative rulemaking side, the fire marshal and the like.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1288", "start": 9308.944, "end": 9325.683, "text": "And so starting these conversations just openly to say if we are going to make tweaks and ask our partners in public safety to work with us and be partners on and kind of try to benchmark— well, first of all, come with that conversation with us.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1289", "start": 9325.861, "end": 9333.864, "text": "We start I think in the envisioning process too, so it's not completely just disconnected, I think, from the design principles.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1290", "start": 9335.729, "end": 9354.866, "text": "I also want to note that these would be new construction buildings, and the fire risk that exists in most of these situations are because they're old building stock with antiquated systems that have building materials that are given over to fire conditions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1291", "start": 9355.283, "end": 9369.118, "text": "And, you know, likely— well, what I would like to see, I suppose, but what I have seen is a lot of use of engineered timber materials like mass timber, cross-laminated timber, which is very fire resistant.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1292", "start": 9369.183, "end": 9378.82, "text": "And so I think there's a way to have this conversation that says these are not static— like, fire risk is not a function of Yeah.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1293", "start": 9378.82, "end": 9378.82, "text": "So, like, I think that's a good point.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1294", "start": 9378.82, "end": 9380.66, "text": "I think that we're looking at these things as static variables independent of each other.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1295", "start": 9380.66, "end": 9393.66, "text": "But, like, when you take together all the variables of what goes into making a building and what goes into making a place where someone lives, they all interact with each other that then contribute jointly to the fire risk.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1296", "start": 9393.66, "end": 9412.66, "text": "And so if you're saying, okay, we have one fewer staircase, but we built this thing with cross-laminated timber, and we have egress opportunities that are closer to where people And so on and so forth, then you might have the case where it's a joint, like on the whole, it's safer for everyone.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1297", "start": 9413.399, "end": 9415.695, "text": "I think that's what I've seen when I've been in these conversations.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1298", "start": 9415.759, "end": 9425.04, "text": "And so what you're seeing here is sort of like, hey, let's pull some of the conversations I get to have outside in my district and start to talk about it there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1299", "start": 9425.281, "end": 9429.247, "text": "So rest assured, I don't have something waiting in the wings that I'm gonna plop down here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1300", "start": 9429.311, "end": 9429.455, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1301", "start": 9430.73, "end": 9443.959, "text": "I think some of this stuff probably needs some painful land use process and maybe some state action, but, you know, and some tough conversations with the fire marshal maybe.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1302", "start": 9444.12, "end": 9445.379, "text": "But we want that to be generative.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1303", "start": 9445.88, "end": 9451.247, "text": "We want that to be grounded in like us caring about, you know, I think the thing you care about.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1304", "start": 9451.522, "end": 9453.322, "text": "So just wanted to add that and respond to that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1305", "start": 9455.39, "end": 9455.859, "text": "Chair Mayer.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1306", "start": 9456.783, "end": 9457.447, "text": "Thank you, Vice Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1307", "start": 9457.998, "end": 9463.748, "text": "I appreciate the response, and I think there's conversation to be had there.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1308", "start": 9464.67, "end": 9480.588, "text": "What concerned me was hearing this kind of broad array of benefits that looked to me in the presentation and the pictures like they were dependent on a lot of different changes.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1309", "start": 9484.147, "end": 9506.118, "text": "And I think sometimes there is an inclination, not by this council in particular, but in, in lawmaking and in policy work, to get excited about one solution that has some benefits and attribute many other benefits to it and move forward in a way that creates risk for other solutions.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1310", "start": 9507.209, "end": 9512.572, "text": "Without being clear about that risk and with promises that don't come to fruition.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1311", "start": 9513.551, "end": 9522.27, "text": "And if we're talking about a lot of lots, probably in my district, I'm not willing to have us do that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1312", "start": 9522.655, "end": 9531.888, "text": "I think a conversation holistically about how we create safe buildings that provide the living environments that Portlanders are looking for is really Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1313", "start": 9531.936, "end": 9537.315, "text": "I think that this is absolutely important, and this should be one of many factors that we weigh together.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1314", "start": 9538.439, "end": 9553.067, "text": "But to move in this direction quickly, which is what I was worried was coming next, that sometimes happens here, we get a presentation and then suddenly we're moving quickly, was— is, I will say, pretty concerning to me.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1315", "start": 9553.693, "end": 9557.129, "text": "I know that there are studies that take into account different variables.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1316", "start": 9557.322, "end": 9562.412, "text": "That show different option— different risk patterns.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1317", "start": 9564.198, "end": 9568.26, "text": "But I think there's a lot more for us to understand about how those risks interact.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1318", "start": 9568.405, "end": 9575.269, "text": "And I think we need to take seriously the practitioners who are saying that this could make their jobs harder to do.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1319", "start": 9580.507, "end": 9580.899, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1320", "start": 9581.697, "end": 9583.018, "text": "I don't see anyone else in the queue.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1321", "start": 9583.888, "end": 9586.656, "text": "Do we have any final thoughts, committee or panelists?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1322", "start": 9588.73, "end": 9597.975, "text": "We'd just like to say thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today and to talk about this subject that we think is very important.", "speaker": "Ian Crozier" }, { "id": "cue-1323", "start": 9599.83, "end": 9600.414, "text": "Yeah, thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1324", "start": 9601.308, "end": 9602.331, "text": "Thank you so much for your time.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1325", "start": 9603.847, "end": 9614.945, "text": "With that, colleagues, our— this is our only committee meeting in August, so our next meeting is going to be on Tuesday, September 1st, after the council recess, and we're going to have updates soon on that agenda.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1326", "start": 9615.68, "end": 9619.253, "text": "Uh, but I will go ahead and adjourn this meeting at 4:34 PM.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" } ] }