{ "meetingId": "2026-04-23-fgc-1", "title": "Portland City Council Finance & Governance Committee (Whole) 04/23/26", "date": "2026-04-23T09:30:00-07:00", "duration": 181, "videoUrl": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okWeVlt5QQA", "videoId": "okWeVlt5QQA", "agendaUrl": "https://www.portland.gov/council/agenda/committee-whole/2026/4/23", "agendaItems": [ { "number": 1, "title": "Oversight hearing on unbudgeted Portland Housing Bureau funds", "type": "Presentation", "url": "https://www.portland.gov/council/documents/presentation/placed-file/2026-140" } ], "summary": "**Portland councilors spent nearly three hours questioning city budget officials over roughly $21 million in unbudgeted Portland Housing Bureau money that council learned of only on Nov. 20, less than an hour before it passed the fall budget adjustment, then placed the oversight item on file** ([02:59:01](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:59:01)).\n\n## The first oversight hearing under the new charter\n\nThe Finance and Governance Committee of the Whole, chaired by Councilor Sameer Kanal (District 2), held what he called the council's first oversight hearing under Portland's new charter. Councilor Mitch Green (District 4), who sponsored the authorizing resolution, said oversight is \"not about gotchas\" and works best when it is \"boring and it's uneventful\" ([00:17:13](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@00:17:13)). Kanal said he would strictly enforce decorum and confine questions to the resolution's scope. City Administrator Raymond Lee, City Attorney Robert Taylor, Mayor Keith Wilson, and several bureau officials attended.\n\nThe subject: a roughly **$12 million** underrun in business license tax collections that then-City Administrator Jordan flagged to council on Aug. 8, and, around the same time, roughly **$12 million** in previously unbudgeted Rental Services Office funds that the then-Housing Bureau director told Deputy City Administrator Donnie Oliveira about. That money never entered the fall budget adjustment.\n\n## When council was told, and who held the information\n\nOliveira told Green he first heard of the funds verbally in \"late July, early August\" and got a formal Aug. 27 memo stating the money \"will need to be approved by council in the fall bump\" ([00:21:33](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@00:21:33)). He said timing and the director's vacation kept it out of the adjustment, and that the mayor chose to inform council on Nov. 20 because \"the invite came from his calendar\" ([00:28:24](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@00:28:24)). Oliveira said the figure sat near **$11.75 million** until, days before the Nov. 20 briefing, an additional **$9 million** in reserve surfaced, pushing the total to about $20.7 million.\n\nCouncilor Angelita Morillo (District 3) laid out roughly a dozen executive actions taken over three to four months while council stayed uninformed, and pressed on the final week: after a communications manager warned on Nov. 13 that records were about to be released to OPB, the mayor directed Portland Solutions to draft new spending recommendations over a weekend. Asked whether council would ever have been told absent the records release, Oliveira said, \"Oh yeah, council would have been informed, absolutely\" ([00:51:14](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@00:51:14)).\n\nCouncilor Candace Avalos (District 1) drew the sharpest factual dispute onto the record: the City Budget Office had recommended putting the funds in the fall adjustment. CBO Director Ruth Levine confirmed, \"yes, that's accurate. I did recommend that\" ([00:39:34](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@00:39:34)), and said council was not told her recommendation was overridden. Chief Financial Officer Jonas Bieri later confirmed the override \"was ultimately my call,\" noting Jordan was out and had delegated city administrator authority to him ([01:57:00](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@01:57:00)). Bieri said his confidence in the numbers was \"zero\" in October and that he did not see something reliable until Oct. 5 ([02:04:39](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:04:39)).\n\nCouncilor Eric Zimmerman (District 4) established through Oliveira and Lee that the former Housing Bureau director was aware of accumulating unbudgeted funds \"as early as January of 2025\" ([00:52:47](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@00:52:47)).\n\n## Whether the delay changed anything\n\nCouncilor Elana Pirtle-Guiney (District 2) asked whether earlier disclosure would have changed the city's position. Bieri said, \"we would be essentially exactly where we are today\" ([02:21:30](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:21:30)). Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) agreed there were no policy or financial consequences, though \"those were not good stories,\" and noted council took nearly four months to decide how to spend the money after learning of it ([02:58:12](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:58:12)).\n\nGreen pushed back, saying the delay cost the council the chance to weigh whether the money \"was hidden\" and cost \"public trust,\" and that the fall risk decisions \"could have been different\" ([02:47:44](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:47:44)).\n\n## A pointed exchange with the CFO\n\nUnder questioning from Kanal about why a figure was reliable enough to build spending plans but not to tell council, Bieri said he had been \"0% certain\" and added, \"I've said that multiple times out loud and taken these public lashings\" ([02:32:18](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:32:18)). Kanal responded that he had \"asked one question\" and apologized for any frustration before continuing ([02:33:32](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:33:32)).\n\n## Housing bond balances\n\nCouncilor Loretta Smith (District 1) questioned Oliveira on **$23,991,643** in housing bond money she said was tied to four projects — Alder 9, the Auroras, Crescent Court, and Hollywood Hub. Oliveira said three are built and occupied, with continuing disbursements for developer fees and stabilization, and **$7.7 million** remaining for the still-under-construction Hollywood Hub ([01:03:04](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@01:03:04)). He said reallocating bond dollars is possible but would \"have to honor the intent of the bond dollars.\" Smith closed by asking each official whether Jordan or Mayor Wilson directed them not to disclose unbudgeted funds; Bonaccore, Oliveira, Bieri, and Levine each answered \"No\" ([02:25:54](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:25:54)).\n\n## Reporting structure and next steps\n\nCity Attorney Robert Taylor said the charter's Section 2-406 places the budget director under the city administrator, who is under the mayor, but that council may adjust the office's duties in code so long as it stays \"consistent with the charter\" ([02:50:01](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:50:01)). Levine described the CBO as retaining \"a neutral and independent lens,\" and Lee confirmed council does not receive CBO information without it passing through his office first ([01:55:53](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@01:55:53)). Interim Housing Director Michael Bonaccore said the $21 million figure \"came up for the first time\" on Nov. 17, prompting his email to Oliveira ([02:07:23](meeting:2026-04-23-fgc-1@02:07:23)).\n\n## What's next\n\nThe item was placed on file. Kanal said the council president may schedule further oversight hearings and that he would work with the vice chairs and council president to set a regular cadence. Officials said updates to the budget manual, organizational realignment, and possible code changes to the budget office's duties are anticipated, and Bieri agreed to work with Kanal on a staffing figure for the budget and finance offices. Lee said his first 90 days had been spent evaluating operations and that change-management work would continue \"for many, many months.\"", "summaryText": "Portland councilors spent nearly three hours questioning city budget officials over roughly $21 million in unbudgeted Portland Housing Bureau money that council learned of only on Nov. 20, less than an hour before it passed the fall budget adjustment, then placed the oversight item on file (02:59:01).\n\nThe Finance and Governance Committee of the Whole, chaired by Councilor Sameer Kanal (District 2), held what he called the council's first oversight hearing under Portland's new charter. Councilor Mitch Green (District 4), who sponsored the authorizing resolution, said oversight is \"not about gotchas\" and works best when it is \"boring and it's uneventful\" (00:17:13). Kanal said he would strictly enforce decorum and confine questions to the resolution's scope. City Administrator Raymond Lee, City Attorney Robert Taylor, Mayor Keith Wilson, and several bureau officials attended.\n\nThe subject: a roughly $12 million underrun in business license tax collections that then-City Administrator Jordan flagged to council on Aug. 8, and, around the same time, roughly $12 million in previously unbudgeted Rental Services Office funds that the then-Housing Bureau director told Deputy City Administrator Donnie Oliveira about. That money never entered the fall budget adjustment.\n\nOliveira told Green he first heard of the funds verbally in \"late July, early August\" and got a formal Aug. 27 memo stating the money \"will need to be approved by council in the fall bump\" (00:21:33). He said timing and the director's vacation kept it out of the adjustment, and that the mayor chose to inform council on Nov. 20 because \"the invite came from his calendar\" (00:28:24). Oliveira said the figure sat near $11.75 million until, days before the Nov. 20 briefing, an additional $9 million in reserve surfaced, pushing the total to about $20.7 million.\n\nCouncilor Angelita Morillo (District 3) laid out roughly a dozen executive actions taken over three to four months while council stayed uninformed, and pressed on the final week: after a communications manager warned on Nov. 13 that records were about to be released to OPB, the mayor directed Portland Solutions to draft new spending recommendations over a weekend. Asked whether council would ever have been told absent the records release, Oliveira said, \"Oh yeah, council would have been informed, absolutely\" (00:51:14).\n\nCouncilor Candace Avalos (District 1) drew the sharpest factual dispute onto the record: the City Budget Office had recommended putting the funds in the fall adjustment. CBO Director Ruth Levine confirmed, \"yes, that's accurate. I did recommend that\" (00:39:34), and said council was not told her recommendation was overridden. Chief Financial Officer Jonas Bieri later confirmed the override \"was ultimately my call,\" noting Jordan was out and had delegated city administrator authority to him (01:57:00). Bieri said his confidence in the numbers was \"zero\" in October and that he did not see something reliable until Oct. 5 (02:04:39).\n\nCouncilor Eric Zimmerman (District 4) established through Oliveira and Lee that the former Housing Bureau director was aware of accumulating unbudgeted funds \"as early as January of 2025\" (00:52:47).\n\nCouncilor Elana Pirtle-Guiney (District 2) asked whether earlier disclosure would have changed the city's position. Bieri said, \"we would be essentially exactly where we are today\" (02:21:30). Councilor Steve Novick (District 3) agreed there were no policy or financial consequences, though \"those were not good stories,\" and noted council took nearly four months to decide how to spend the money after learning of it (02:58:12).\n\nGreen pushed back, saying the delay cost the council the chance to weigh whether the money \"was hidden\" and cost \"public trust,\" and that the fall risk decisions \"could have been different\" (02:47:44).\n\nUnder questioning from Kanal about why a figure was reliable enough to build spending plans but not to tell council, Bieri said he had been \"0% certain\" and added, \"I've said that multiple times out loud and taken these public lashings\" (02:32:18). Kanal responded that he had \"asked one question\" and apologized for any frustration before continuing (02:33:32).\n\nCouncilor Loretta Smith (District 1) questioned Oliveira on $23,991,643 in housing bond money she said was tied to four projects — Alder 9, the Auroras, Crescent Court, and Hollywood Hub. Oliveira said three are built and occupied, with continuing disbursements for developer fees and stabilization, and $7.7 million remaining for the still-under-construction Hollywood Hub (01:03:04). He said reallocating bond dollars is possible but would \"have to honor the intent of the bond dollars.\" Smith closed by asking each official whether Jordan or Mayor Wilson directed them not to disclose unbudgeted funds; Bonaccore, Oliveira, Bieri, and Levine each answered \"No\" (02:25:54).\n\nCity Attorney Robert Taylor said the charter's Section 2-406 places the budget director under the city administrator, who is under the mayor, but that council may adjust the office's duties in code so long as it stays \"consistent with the charter\" (02:50:01). Levine described the CBO as retaining \"a neutral and independent lens,\" and Lee confirmed council does not receive CBO information without it passing through his office first (01:55:53). Interim Housing Director Michael Bonaccore said the $21 million figure \"came up for the first time\" on Nov. 17, prompting his email to Oliveira (02:07:23).\n\nThe item was placed on file. Kanal said the council president may schedule further oversight hearings and that he would work with the vice chairs and council president to set a regular cadence. Officials said updates to the budget manual, organizational realignment, and possible code changes to the budget office's duties are anticipated, and Bieri agreed to work with Kanal on a staffing figure for the budget and finance offices. Lee said his first 90 days had been spent evaluating operations and that change-management work would continue \"for many, many months.\"", "summaryLede": "Portland councilors spent nearly three hours questioning city budget officials over roughly $21 million in unbudgeted Portland Housing Bureau money that council learned of only on Nov. 20, less than an hour before it passed the fall budget adjustment, then placed the oversight item on file.", "sections": [ { "title": "Regular Agenda", "startTime": "00:07:15.452", "endTime": "03:00:57.640", "items": [ { "title": "Oversight hearing on unbudgeted Portland Housing Bureau funds", "startTime": "00:11:59.823", "endTime": "03:00:57.640", "agendaItemNumber": 1 } ] } ], "cues": [ { "id": "cue-1", "start": 435.453, "end": 435.924, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-2", "start": 436.834, "end": 439.124, "text": "I call the meeting of the Committee of the Whole to order.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-3", "start": 439.351, "end": 442.924, "text": "It is Thursday, April 23rd at 9:32 AM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-4", "start": 444.618, "end": 445.915, "text": "Diana, will you please call the roll?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-5", "start": 446.986, "end": 447.667, "text": "Good morning, everyone.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-6", "start": 448.186, "end": 448.656, "text": "Pirtle-Guiney?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-7", "start": 449.986, "end": 450.099, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-8", "start": 451.105, "end": 451.413, "text": "Ryan?", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-9", "start": 451.835, "end": 451.9, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-10", "start": 452.726, "end": 454.478, "text": "Koyama Lane?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-11", "start": 455.699, "end": 455.828, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-12", "start": 456.744, "end": 457.081, "text": "Novick?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-13", "start": 457.161, "end": 458.319, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-14", "start": 458.752, "end": 459.46, "text": "Smith?", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-15", "start": 460.456, "end": 461.276, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-16", "start": 470.26, "end": 470.76, "text": "Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-17", "start": 470.76, "end": 471.3, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Jamie Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-18", "start": 471.3, "end": 472.7, "text": "Kanal.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-19", "start": 472.7, "end": 475.28, "text": "Here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-20", "start": 475.28, "end": 477.74, "text": "Christopher, will you please read the statement of conduct?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-21", "start": 479, "end": 481.42, "text": "Welcome to the meeting of the Finance and Governance Committee of the Whole.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-22", "start": 481.42, "end": 491.56, "text": "To testify before this committee in person or virtually, you must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at www.portland.gov/council/agenda/committee-whole or by calling 311.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-23", "start": 491.56, "end": 493.55, "text": "Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-24", "start": 494.06, "end": 496.44, "text": "Registration for virtual testimony closes 1 hour prior to the meeting.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-25", "start": 496.44, "end": 499.1, "text": "In-person testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-26", "start": 499.1, "end": 504.34, "text": "If public testimony will be taken on an item, Individuals may testify for 3 minutes unless the Chair states otherwise.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-27", "start": 504.34, "end": 506.15, "text": "Your microphone will be muted when your time is over.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-28", "start": 506.26, "end": 507.4, "text": "The Chair preserves order.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-29", "start": 507.96, "end": 514.1, "text": "Disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others' testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-30", "start": 514.1, "end": 515.96, "text": "If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-31", "start": 515.98, "end": 518.34, "text": "Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-32", "start": 518.5, "end": 521.05, "text": "Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-33", "start": 521.4, "end": 523.94, "text": "Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-34", "start": 524.16, "end": 525.78, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-35", "start": 525.78, "end": 527.02, "text": "Thank you, Christopher.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-36", "start": 527.02, "end": 533.844, "text": "In a moment, I'm gonna pass it over to Council President Dunphy for a couple introductory comments, but I wanted to first say welcome to the 3rd meeting Committee of the Whole.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-37", "start": 534.373, "end": 542.673, "text": "This is a little different, uh, than the previous 2, and frankly anything we've done in the last 15 months and perhaps for many years before that, in that this will be an oversight hearing.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-38", "start": 543.17, "end": 549.548, "text": "We're going to spend some time explaining what happens before we get into it, um, but please bear with us as we, uh, test out a new process.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-39", "start": 550.076, "end": 552.48, "text": "With that, I'm good.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-40", "start": 552.64, "end": 553.97, "text": "Council President Duffy says he's good.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-41", "start": 554.387, "end": 560.059, "text": "Uh, so, all right, uh, today's an important day for us as a body and for Portland's new form of government.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-42", "start": 560.14, "end": 560.591, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-43", "start": 560.64, "end": 566.029, "text": "Today, the council is holding its first oversight hearing, exercising for the first time an authority granted to us in Portland's new charter.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-44", "start": 566.546, "end": 573.404, "text": "I recognize that we did not come to the process that led us to today unanimously, and that some councilors come to this hearing with concerns about how it will go.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-45", "start": 574.014, "end": 584.864, "text": "Whether you share in those concerns or not, I hope we can all approach today with an appreciation for the critical role of oversight in democratic systems and respect for council's duty to exercise its oversight role with rigor and with respect.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-46", "start": 585.398, "end": 587.979, "text": "It's a great honor for me to chair this first oversight hearing.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-47", "start": 588.028, "end": 596.047, "text": "I've taken great care to work with the council president's office to prepare a format to today's that I hope will foster respectful discourse, public trust, and transparency.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-48", "start": 597.041, "end": 598.243, "text": "Oversight is critical to good governance.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-49", "start": 598.339, "end": 601.305, "text": "It's our duty to carry out this responsibility without fear or favor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-50", "start": 601.834, "end": 611.324, "text": "We're here on behalf of the people who put us here and who need to know that their government is accountable to them and that we, their representatives, will ask questions and investigate discrepancies on their behalf.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-51", "start": 612.254, "end": 615.411, "text": "Oversight and accountability are not the same as punishment and blame.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-52", "start": 616.421, "end": 629.523, "text": "The purpose of oversight is to improve efficiency and effectiveness and transparency of government operations, evaluate performance and programs, detect and prevent waste and unlawful conduct, and ensure executive policies reflect the public interest.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-53", "start": 629.828, "end": 631.577, "text": "And we can do all of this respectfully.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-54", "start": 632.716, "end": 636.807, "text": "As a result, I'll be strictly enforcing our rules related to order and decorum today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-55", "start": 637.208, "end": 644.316, "text": "Oversight is too critical to the effective functioning of our system of government to let today's hearing be our last oversight hearing because we failed to do it well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-56", "start": 644.894, "end": 648.889, "text": "And in that spirit, I'll highlight 3 of the council rules specifically before we get— begin.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-57", "start": 649.643, "end": 652.675, "text": "The first is councilors should confine themselves to the question under debate.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-58", "start": 653.157, "end": 658.837, "text": "This means keeping comments within the scope of the 4 questions in the oversight resolution passed by council.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-59", "start": 659.592, "end": 665.914, "text": "This is not a hearing to litigate how the Housing Bureau dollars could or should be spent, and I'll call to order councilors who veer into that debate.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-60", "start": 666.653, "end": 669.252, "text": "Secondly, councilors should refrain from personal criticism.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-61", "start": 670.103, "end": 674.195, "text": "This applies to fellow councilors as well as the members of the administration who are invited to be here today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-62", "start": 674.275, "end": 679.731, "text": "We sent out a run of show with the 7 members of the administration who will be present today.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-63", "start": 680.757, "end": 682.937, "text": "We can make our points without attacking and shaming each other.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-64", "start": 683.338, "end": 688.179, "text": "And finally, each councilor will have 10 minutes during Q&A to ask questions of invited guests.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-65", "start": 689.093, "end": 691.626, "text": "Each councilor's time includes response time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-66", "start": 692.379, "end": 696.066, "text": "So I'm asking our invited guests to please answer questions as succinctly as possible.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-67", "start": 696.483, "end": 707.752, "text": "And for councilors, you feel free after— members of the administration should have a chance not only to say a yes or no, but at least a couple sentences, ideally more than that, depending on what your question is.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-68", "start": 708.505, "end": 711.471, "text": "But if there is time remaining after each councilor has had their opportunity, I'll return to council.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-69", "start": 711.535, "end": 711.647, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-70", "start": 711.76, "end": 712.659, "text": "Councilors in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-71", "start": 713.543, "end": 719.455, "text": "Um, I'm actually— I should have had Diana read the, the item first, so I'm going to pause here and let her do that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-72", "start": 719.824, "end": 721.72, "text": "Diana, would you please read the, the first item?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-73", "start": 722.797, "end": 731.601, "text": "Item number 1, document number 2026-140, oversight hearing on unbudgeted Portland Housing Bureau funds.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-74", "start": 732.356, "end": 732.645, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-75", "start": 732.982, "end": 737.593, "text": "Um, any questions on the rules that I just laid out before we get started?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-76", "start": 737.657, "end": 744.43, "text": "Any objection to Yes, please feel free.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-77", "start": 746.54, "end": 747.652, "text": "This is a unique situation.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-78", "start": 747.717, "end": 751.492, "text": "I'm a little bit surprised, Chair, that we don't have an attorney with us on the dais.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-79", "start": 751.883, "end": 754.374, "text": "I think that that would be most appropriate.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-80", "start": 755.71, "end": 758.497, "text": "Yeah, I see Robert Taylor's hand going up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-81", "start": 759.615, "end": 762.387, "text": "Um, okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-82", "start": 764.407, "end": 766.275, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman, does that address the concern?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-83", "start": 766.742, "end": 767.241, "text": "Yes, thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-84", "start": 768.127, "end": 768.868, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-85", "start": 769.335, "end": 771.316, "text": "Anything else from anyone before we get going?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-86", "start": 771.97, "end": 773.37, "text": "All right, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-87", "start": 775.141, "end": 776.139, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-88", "start": 777.379, "end": 789.346, "text": "With an attorney coming up here, I appreciate that you're gonna hold us all to a standard of decorum and professionalism during our conversation today.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-89", "start": 789.492, "end": 790.689, "text": "I think that's really important.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-90", "start": 791.43, "end": 800.844, "text": "I also think it's really important if we start to veer toward anything that would be a better conversation for executive session, that we know that.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-91", "start": 800.909, "end": 810.497, "text": "So I would just ask that with an attorney on the dais with us, you and our attorney are in close communication to make sure that we don't cross any lines of legality.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-92", "start": 812.277, "end": 814.424, "text": "Thank you for that reminder, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-93", "start": 814.472, "end": 821.299, "text": "And I'm sure Robert Taylor and I can make eye contact as needed if there's a reason, or feel free to jump in and let us know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-94", "start": 821.698, "end": 821.938, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-95", "start": 822.003, "end": 822.532, "text": "We welcome that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-96", "start": 823.509, "end": 841.431, "text": "All right, well, with that, I'm gonna just note one other thing, and these are not rules, but these are my suggestions as someone who's gone through some uncomfortable conversations in the past as things that can help with ensuring that things don't get off the rails before a rule is violated.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-97", "start": 841.864, "end": 843.082, "text": "So take these as suggestions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-98", "start": 843.868, "end": 844.573, "text": "This is the first hearing.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-99", "start": 844.83, "end": 845.855, "text": "We only have a limited time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-100", "start": 846.144, "end": 850.055, "text": "So I'd suggest as a first understanding, accepting non-closure.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-101", "start": 850.456, "end": 853.229, "text": "We will probably not answer every question that there is in this time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-102", "start": 854.501, "end": 856.209, "text": "We talked about treating others with respect.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-103", "start": 856.29, "end": 858.756, "text": "And the third thing I'd say is stepping up and stepping back.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-104", "start": 858.804, "end": 864.965, "text": "And that means ensuring that your colleagues, but also the subject matter experts, have the opportunity to give their time, but taking yours as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-105", "start": 865.488, "end": 868.264, "text": "And just understanding and being aware of that balance as we go forward.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-106", "start": 870.025, "end": 876.638, "text": "With that, I'm gonna pass it over to City Administrator Lee for any introductory comments he may have, and then over to the, the resolution sponsors.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-107", "start": 880.187, "end": 885.78, "text": "Thank you, Committee Chair and Vice Chair and both Vice Chairs with this committee.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-108", "start": 887.158, "end": 888.488, "text": "Thank you this morning for having us.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-109", "start": 889.417, "end": 920.399, "text": "You know, as we go through this conversation today, I just want everyone to remember, I think everyone's intent and purpose of this is to produce something that is beneficial not only to this board and this organization, but something that speaks to The community as a whole and accountability and the measures that we're willing to take to ensure that we have a transparent process, that we're being accountable and responsible to our community and our city as a whole.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-110", "start": 921.313, "end": 940.975, "text": "And as city staff and as administration, we have that commitment not only to this body and to our electors, but to the community we serve at large and also to the employees that report to us and that do the hard work producing services to this community day in and day out.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-111", "start": 941.44, "end": 948.955, "text": "They have my trust from that standpoint, and they have my support as we continue to provide services to this city.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-112", "start": 950.173, "end": 961.045, "text": "Yesterday evening, we provided a report that under attorney-client privilege as it relates to my Uh, investigation of this matter as well.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-113", "start": 961.88, "end": 981.589, "text": "As previously, uh, communicated to this body, that I would go through my own analysis of this situation to ensure that everything that has been done to this point meets the standards that I would want to see this organization have as we move forward in any circumstance.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-114", "start": 982.038, "end": 984.559, "text": "I believe everyone on this council has Thank you.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-115", "start": 985.329, "end": 996.686, "text": "I will not go into details on that report today due to attorney-client privilege, and some of this report goes beyond the, the conversation that we're having today.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-116", "start": 997.36, "end": 1009.182, "text": "But I just hope that with this additional information, it gives you even more insight and the ability to ask even more informed questions as it relates to the matter that we have at hand.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-117", "start": 1009.631, "end": 1011.267, "text": "I appreciate the opportunity.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-118", "start": 1011.799, "end": 1020.737, "text": "And I know our team will continue to work with this body to ensure that we're being transparent and delivering exceptional services to this community.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-119", "start": 1020.786, "end": 1021.397, "text": "So thank you.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-120", "start": 1023.181, "end": 1024.659, "text": "Thank you, Administrator Lee.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-121", "start": 1024.852, "end": 1032.781, "text": "And our final introductory comment before we get to each councilor's 10 minutes is from Councilor Green, who is the sponsor of the resolution that set this up.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-122", "start": 1033.254, "end": 1034.496, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-123", "start": 1036.769, "end": 1042.088, "text": "I just wanted I want to frame this up by saying that oversight is not about gotchas.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-124", "start": 1042.458, "end": 1050.087, "text": "It's not about blaming, and it's not about sort of badmouthing any bureau or any given employee.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-125", "start": 1050.232, "end": 1054.022, "text": "It's about making sure that we are always fulfilling the public trust.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-126", "start": 1054.07, "end": 1057.925, "text": "And so that's the kind of energy that I'm trying to bring to this conversation today.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-127", "start": 1058.022, "end": 1062.423, "text": "I appreciated your earlier framing remarks about these kind of community agreements.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-128", "start": 1063.804, "end": 1091.099, "text": "I think if we do oversight correctly, we do it often and it's boring and it's uneventful because it's a practice that we have to do to make sure that our constituents know that the City Council is going to do its job, which is a very— which is very explicitly about making sure that we are willing to do oversight to follow up on the legislative prerogatives that we have.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-129", "start": 1091.148, "end": 1092.137, "text": "And that's how we've structured this new form of government.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-130", "start": 1092.187, "end": 1092.533, "text": "We are not executive.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-131", "start": 1092.632, "end": 1093.044, "text": "I think that's a very good point.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-132", "start": 1095.287, "end": 1096.477, "text": "We are legislators.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-133", "start": 1096.654, "end": 1102.765, "text": "So when we legislate and create laws, there needs to be a way for us to say, did we fulfill on that legislative promise?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-134", "start": 1103.73, "end": 1122.576, "text": "So just to set the context here, in the original resolution, we noted that on August 8th of last year, council was notified by then-City Administrator Jordan that due to a $12 million underrun in expected business license tax collections, we should expect as council to take an action to close that deficit in the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-135", "start": 1123.793, "end": 1131.051, "text": "And around that same time, then-PhB Director Hysarik informed DCA Oliveira of a previously unbudgeted $12 million.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-136", "start": 1131.227, "end": 1132.989, "text": "So that's the same number.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-137", "start": 1133.582, "end": 1137.059, "text": "It's the same magnitude in rental services offices funds.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-138", "start": 1138.212, "end": 1140.055, "text": "And that money was never included as part of the TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-139", "start": 1140.215, "end": 1145.069, "text": "And this is all in the resolution that guides this oversight hearing.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-140", "start": 1145.806, "end": 1148.081, "text": "So today I'll be asking questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-141", "start": 1148.13, "end": 1152.327, "text": "My councilors, fellow councilors will be asking questions to figure out why that money was not part of that TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-142", "start": 1152.391, "end": 1152.519, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-143", "start": 1153.274, "end": 1170.154, "text": "And to kind of close that loop, we have charter authority and a duty to make sure that when we are not getting timely information as to the financial condition of this city, that we then ask why and we correct that gap there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-144", "start": 1170.234, "end": 1177.221, "text": "So to this end, the oversight resolution that provided this hearing generated some public records.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-145", "start": 1178.232, "end": 1180.112, "text": "My team has compiled some of those public records.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-146", "start": 1180.176, "end": 1185.264, "text": "We've made it available to all of you so you the same information that I'm going to be referencing during this conversation when I ask my questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-147", "start": 1185.831, "end": 1189.118, "text": "And again, I can't stress enough that I'm coming into this with good faith.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-148", "start": 1189.81, "end": 1196.679, "text": "I'm just trying to ask questions in public and not lead to any consequence or any sort of outcome there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-149", "start": 1198.099, "end": 1200.369, "text": "So that's sort of my opening remarks and context setting.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-150", "start": 1200.417, "end": 1204.007, "text": "And would you like me to begin the questioning?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-151", "start": 1204.184, "end": 1205.778, "text": "Just one thing I forgot to mention.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-152", "start": 1206.116, "end": 1213.337, "text": "I mentioned there were 7 folks here who are available just for the For the public knowledge of that, I want to thank them all for being here in advance.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-153", "start": 1213.722, "end": 1224.673, "text": "We have City Administrator Lee, we have CFO Beery, we have CBO Director Levine, DCA Oliveira, Housing Director Bonaccor, Housing Deputy Director Gonzalez, as well as Mayor Wilson.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-154", "start": 1224.721, "end": 1226.054, "text": "And I appreciate everyone being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-155", "start": 1226.503, "end": 1228.35, "text": "And with that, we'll start the clocks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-156", "start": 1228.992, "end": 1231.77, "text": "Feel free to start it off, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-157", "start": 1231.963, "end": 1233.825, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-158", "start": 1234.034, "end": 1239.042, "text": "To begin my Questioning DCA Olvera, can you please come to the dais?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-159", "start": 1242.34, "end": 1243.144, "text": "Set my stopwatch here.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-160", "start": 1253.8, "end": 1254.717, "text": "Can you please introduce yourself?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-161", "start": 1255.184, "end": 1255.684, "text": "Donnie Olvera.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-162", "start": 1256.086, "end": 1257.471, "text": "Excuse me, Donnie Olvera for the record.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-163", "start": 1258.421, "end": 1258.953, "text": "Thank you, Donnie.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-164", "start": 1259.243, "end": 1259.919, "text": "My first question is.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-165", "start": 1261.109, "end": 1264.61, "text": "On what date were you first made aware of the unbudgeted RSO funds?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-166", "start": 1267.37, "end": 1268.114, "text": "Just one second, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-167", "start": 1268.195, "end": 1287.069, "text": "Sorry for using your time here to get my— Councilor, the first time, to my best recollection, was a one-on-one check-in I had with Director Hisarick where she gave me a heads up that there was some unbudgeted funds, and that would have In either late July or early August.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-168", "start": 1287.117, "end": 1293.217, "text": "The exact date of the check-in is off the top of my head, not clear, but it was around late July, early August.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-169", "start": 1293.619, "end": 1294.566, "text": "Late July, early August.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-170", "start": 1294.662, "end": 1302.802, "text": "And that aligns with the timeline slideshow that came from your office to kind of catalog that as well.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-171", "start": 1303.331, "end": 1304.375, "text": "Just noting that for the record.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-172", "start": 1305.434, "end": 1322.213, "text": "My second question is on August 27th, and if you're following along, that's page 6 in this packet, Director Hisrich emailed you notification of, like, more formally, of unbudgeted RSO funds along with recommendations for how they could be allocated.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-173", "start": 1323.131, "end": 1326.754, "text": "That August 27th email included the following statement.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-174", "start": 1327.318, "end": 1333.217, "text": "This expenditure, and I quote, this expenditure plan will need to be approved by council in the fall bump, end quote.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-175", "start": 1333.282, "end": 1334.572, "text": "So that is now called the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-176", "start": 1336.331, "end": 1337.945, "text": "Why was this money not included in the fall TAO?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-177", "start": 1339.329, "end": 1340.917, "text": "Uh, thank you for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-178", "start": 1341.045, "end": 1348.007, "text": "So, um, to the best of my recollection, the director at the time sent that email.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-179", "start": 1348.312, "end": 1350.51, "text": "Um, it was— I believe it was the end of the week.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-180", "start": 1351.151, "end": 1353.445, "text": "It was the next week that the TAO was, was due.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-181", "start": 1354.087, "end": 1354.905, "text": "There's a timing issue.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-182", "start": 1355.611, "end": 1360.199, "text": "And so it just so happened that she went on vacation, um, appropriately well-earned.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-183", "start": 1360.905, "end": 1364.963, "text": "Um, so her and I didn't get a chance to actually talk about the memo until after she got back.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-184", "start": 1365.189, "end": 1366.56, "text": "And we scheduled time to do it.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-185", "start": 1366.625, "end": 1372.128, "text": "So from the day I got the memo, from our ability to actually talk about it, the deadline for the TALP submission had passed.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-186", "start": 1372.822, "end": 1376.436, "text": "And at that point, we started doing more evaluation of the information.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-187", "start": 1376.791, "end": 1378.824, "text": "And there's a meeting scheduled to do that with her team.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-188", "start": 1378.986, "end": 1380.357, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-189", "start": 1380.422, "end": 1385.325, "text": "But you did first learn about an approximate level of funds in late July?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-190", "start": 1387.402, "end": 1395.52, "text": "Not a particular number at that time, but I was, you know, at that point generally aware of something, you know, Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-191", "start": 1395.6, "end": 1408.086, "text": "And so between the date you were first verbally informed, um, and August 27th when you got the formal written memo, how many conversations did you have about how and when council would be informed of these funds and with whom?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-192", "start": 1409.065, "end": 1410.285, "text": "None to my recollection, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-193", "start": 1410.445, "end": 1411.617, "text": "It was at that point premature.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-194", "start": 1411.745, "end": 1413.575, "text": "I hadn't received anything official yet.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-195", "start": 1414.538, "end": 1415.1, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-196", "start": 1416.287, "end": 1422.814, "text": "Um, my next question is, Was anyone in the administration made aware of these funds prior to the TAO?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-197", "start": 1424.596, "end": 1428.396, "text": "If so, who were they, when were they made aware, and why were they made aware?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-198", "start": 1431.318, "end": 1437.842, "text": "Well, Councilor, the TAO is a lengthy process, so people are learning in the middle of the TAO process.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-199", "start": 1438.198, "end": 1446.842, "text": "So I guess to say who learned before the submission, the first deadline of submission, which I believe was the 5th, Let me look at my dates to be clear.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-200", "start": 1448.02, "end": 1449.977, "text": "That's when service areas were— the proposals were due.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-201", "start": 1451.713, "end": 1454.429, "text": "I don't believe anybody at that point knew before the submission.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-202", "start": 1455.286, "end": 1461.059, "text": "It was during check-ins that I had with the city administrator at the time, Michael Jordan, that again, I gave him pretty high level.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-203", "start": 1462.74, "end": 1464.315, "text": "We think there's some funds in the bureau.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-204", "start": 1464.38, "end": 1466.865, "text": "We don't have definitive details yet.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-205", "start": 1466.995, "end": 1467.677, "text": "We're going to work on that.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-206", "start": 1469.009, "end": 1469.285, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-207", "start": 1470.243, "end": 1471.998, "text": "So I just want to I just want to go back a little bit.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-208", "start": 1472.673, "end": 1479.805, "text": "In that August 27th email, there's an identification of $12 million of funds and a spending plan.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-209", "start": 1481.266, "end": 1492.815, "text": "And you didn't— so I just want to make sure you weren't talking about that in the context of the TOW after you received that spending plan with anyone else involved in the TOW construction process.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-210", "start": 1493.554, "end": 1495.434, "text": "Not to my recollection, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-211", "start": 1495.835, "end": 1495.98, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-212", "start": 1496.172, "end": 1496.365, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-213", "start": 1496.527, "end": 1499.187, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-214", "start": 1500.825, "end": 1524.506, "text": "My next question is, when you briefed the mayor, City Administrator Jordan, and CFO Beery in early September— and this is drawn from a response that I think Cody Bowman provided to a records request from the Mercury in December— is the timeline that you said that you had told the mayor, CA Jordan, and CFO Beery, it was around early September?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-215", "start": 1525.333, "end": 1533.964, "text": "And chose not to brief council at that same time, what was your basis for concluding that the city administrator's duty under Section 2-406 was being met?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-216", "start": 1534.638, "end": 1542.306, "text": "That is the requirement that the city administrator keep council, quote, at all times fully advised as to the financial condition and needs of the city.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-217", "start": 1542.723, "end": 1544.007, "text": "Thank you for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-218", "start": 1544.103, "end": 1551.129, "text": "At that particular time, again, I hadn't had a chance to talk to Helmi, Director Hisarick, about the memo.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-219", "start": 1552.108, "end": 1556.376, "text": "She was on vacation, so it wasn't until she got back that the submission already happened.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-220", "start": 1557.322, "end": 1560.787, "text": "It felt premature to share any information because her and I hadn't had a chance.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-221", "start": 1560.948, "end": 1572.355, "text": "And in fact, the briefing we set up on September, I think, get the right date, September 18th, with her and her leadership team was to in fact go through the memo for the first time.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-222", "start": 1572.997, "end": 1579.464, "text": "So it was at that time that we decided to— that decided that's when we started to unpack the resources, where they were at, et cetera.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-223", "start": 1579.882, "end": 1592.02, "text": "And so just from a practicality perspective, I gave the mayor, CFO Berry, and CA Jordan a heads up that there was some discrepancies, but that we were still evaluating the true nature.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-224", "start": 1592.727, "end": 1597.865, "text": "There was general, you know, concern about the accuracy at that point, so we wanted to do some more work.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-225", "start": 1599.23, "end": 1599.968, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-226", "start": 1604.309, "end": 1612.753, "text": "The question— my next question, this might be my last question for now, is council was informed of the existence of this money on November 20th.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-227", "start": 1613.82, "end": 1619.593, "text": "That's the same day as, and in fact less than an hour before, the second reading and passage of the TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-228", "start": 1620.805, "end": 1624.52, "text": "Who made the decision to inform council on this specific day and why?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-229", "start": 1627.183, "end": 1638.464, "text": "So the week prior, And I actually, I don't want to be— I can't be specific on the exact day when we, we started to realize that we had a higher fidelity or detail the number.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-230", "start": 1638.576, "end": 1640.286, "text": "At this time it was about 11.7.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-231", "start": 1641.205, "end": 1644.852, "text": "Um, the mayor thought it was appropriate at that point.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-232", "start": 1644.998, "end": 1648.853, "text": "We felt confident to say, okay, we've confirmed this particular tranche of money.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-233", "start": 1649.69, "end": 1654.488, "text": "And so we actually had set up a meeting for the following week to get that scheduled.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-234", "start": 1654.537, "end": 1654.585, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-235", "start": 1655.655, "end": 1661.658, "text": "In between that time of setting that meeting up and the meeting happening is when we learned of the additional $9 million.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-236", "start": 1662.288, "end": 1672.651, "text": "So just what happened, just because at that point we knew director, he informed me on the, the day before that meeting happened, it's not $11.7, it's $20 million approximately.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-237", "start": 1673.552, "end": 1679.412, "text": "And so when we met on that, that next day, that's when we shared the full amount, which we just learned.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-238", "start": 1679.589, "end": 1681.401, "text": "So just, I want to make sure I understand this correctly.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-239", "start": 1681.531, "end": 1688.788, "text": "So you shared the full amount with council because you learned That there was an extra $9 million, or because— were you planning to share the $12 million?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-240", "start": 1688.852, "end": 1691.865, "text": "We were planning to share the $12 million, and then it just— and then we learned there was more.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-241", "start": 1692.706, "end": 1695.374, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-242", "start": 1697.152, "end": 1697.298, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-243", "start": 1697.346, "end": 1702.158, "text": "So I still don't— I don't— still don't know who made the decision to inform council on that specific date.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-244", "start": 1704.298, "end": 1705.307, "text": "Uh, I believe it was the mayor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-245", "start": 1705.91, "end": 1709.574, "text": "I mean, and I'm saying I believe that because the invite came from his, um, calendar.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-246", "start": 1711.596, "end": 1712.628, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-247", "start": 1714.676, "end": 1719.869, "text": "So I just, from what I'm getting here is, I'm just going to summarize.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-248", "start": 1720.546, "end": 1729.223, "text": "So you found out from Helmi Hysrich verbally in late July, early August of the existence of some money that was not budgeted.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-249", "start": 1729.747, "end": 1734.889, "text": "There's some uncertainty around what the magnitudes are in the range of $10 to $20 million.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-250", "start": 1736.332, "end": 1736.477, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-251", "start": 1736.526, "end": 1752.552, "text": "So by August 27th, you have an explanation in a formal memo that there is $11.7 million and a spending plan for how to use those, and then a suggestion that to use those in the TAO, councilors would need to be informed.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-252", "start": 1752.762, "end": 1753.506, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-253", "start": 1754.298, "end": 1754.622, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-254", "start": 1756.093, "end": 1758.858, "text": "I think, Chair Kanal, I think that's all I have for now.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-255", "start": 1759.391, "end": 1761.348, "text": "Thank you, Donny, for answering these questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-256", "start": 1761.445, "end": 1761.639, "text": "Appreciate it.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-257", "start": 1763.083, "end": 1764.16, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-258", "start": 1764.336, "end": 1767.727, "text": "And just to clarify, so you've got a couple minutes left roughly.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-259", "start": 1767.775, "end": 1770.78, "text": "We'll get you the exact, so you'll have that available for you later.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-260", "start": 1771.342, "end": 1775.199, "text": "For colleagues, you're able to use your time in chunks if you'd like, or all at once.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-261", "start": 1775.906, "end": 1779.585, "text": "As I put in the run of show, we're gonna go with the resolution co-sponsors first.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-262", "start": 1779.633, "end": 1782.108, "text": "So it'll be Councilor Avalos, then Morillo, and then I'll go in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-263", "start": 1782.493, "end": 1787.635, "text": "So please feel free to get in the queue as you're listening to these 2 colleagues, and I'll pass it over to Councilor Avalos.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-264", "start": 1790.206, "end": 1791.684, "text": "Okay, thank you, Chair Kanal.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-265", "start": 1792.857, "end": 1794.479, "text": "Uh, let me start my timer here.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-266", "start": 1795.122, "end": 1796.6, "text": "Thank you, uh, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-267", "start": 1796.648, "end": 1800.118, "text": "I appreciate the context you were able to bring out in that conversation.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-268", "start": 1800.166, "end": 1814.529, "text": "And so I'm going to pick up where you left off and spend a little bit of time walking through the early September briefing of the mayor, the city administrator, and the CFO, and specifically to understand what the city's budget professionals were saying at that moment and how that advice was ultimately handled.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-269", "start": 1815.142, "end": 1818.049, "text": "So, um, since I'm not there, well, I can't tell.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-270", "start": 1818.824, "end": 1821.602, "text": "Uh, I need Jonas Bieri, please, to come up.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-271", "start": 1822.619, "end": 1824.138, "text": "He's on his way up now, Councilor Avalos.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-272", "start": 1825.06, "end": 1825.562, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-273", "start": 1827.147, "end": 1831.578, "text": "All right, thank you, CFO.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-274", "start": 1831.772, "end": 1833.081, "text": "Let's start with this question.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-275", "start": 1833.854, "end": 1837.948, "text": "On what date were you first made aware of the unbudgeted RSO funds?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-276", "start": 1839.812, "end": 1841.308, "text": "Um, thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-277", "start": 1841.373, "end": 1844.364, "text": "For the record, uh, Jonas Bieri, City's Chief Financial Officer.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-278", "start": 1846.534, "end": 1849.453, "text": "A couple of notes about that question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-279", "start": 1849.985, "end": 1860.715, "text": "First, timing-wise, I'm told via DCA Oliveira that there was a conversation in September prior to the TAO submittal.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-280", "start": 1860.813, "end": 1863.127, "text": "I don't specifically recall that conversation.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-281", "start": 1863.69, "end": 1871.521, "text": "However, it is very common as that work is being done that there are outstanding questions and things that due diligence that's continuing.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-282", "start": 1871.698, "end": 1878.732, "text": "And so that's not, In and of itself unusual that there would be a conversation about something that is evolving.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-283", "start": 1879.476, "end": 1881.851, "text": "And so I'm told that that conversation occurred.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-284", "start": 1881.981, "end": 1885.299, "text": "I don't have a record of it, but accept that that probably happened.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-285", "start": 1885.379, "end": 1888.889, "text": "I believe it was October 5th, Sunday evening.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-286", "start": 1889.227, "end": 1902.584, "text": "I was actually on vacation October 2nd through 7th, came back and saw that email in my inbox, which was the first First time that really came to my knowledge.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-287", "start": 1902.985, "end": 1913.39, "text": "I'll also note that there was some initial confusion on my part, maybe on the part of others as well, but certainly on my part about where those dollars were, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-288", "start": 1913.55, "end": 1918.078, "text": "And there was a couple of different amounts that were both close to $12 million.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-289", "start": 1918.142, "end": 1922.028, "text": "And so there was some initial confusion on my part about which bucket that was.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-290", "start": 1922.076, "end": 1923.409, "text": "So I just want to acknowledge that as well.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-291", "start": 1925.749, "end": 1926.261, "text": "All right, thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-292", "start": 1926.55, "end": 1934.224, "text": "Um, from our records, it seems to show, um, early September was when you knew, but I'm hearing you say October 5th.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-293", "start": 1934.369, "end": 1939.272, "text": "So is that to confirm when you officially knew, early October, not early September?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-294", "start": 1940.009, "end": 1951.929, "text": "Uh, yeah, Councilor, I would say October 5th, or when upon returning from vacation on, I think it was October 8th, was the first time that I actually saw something that said— I said, here's something I can hold on to and start actually thinking about again.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-295", "start": 1952.218, "end": 1954.37, "text": "I'm told that September conversation occurred.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-296", "start": 1954.996, "end": 1956.136, "text": "I don't deny that it occurred.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-297", "start": 1956.698, "end": 1957.838, "text": "It just doesn't stick in my memory.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-298", "start": 1957.902, "end": 1968.548, "text": "Again, it's very, very common that those kinds of conversations occur with bureau directors and DCAs and other city leadership as that work is being performed to submit information on that deadline.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-299", "start": 1969.624, "end": 1969.864, "text": "Got it.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-300", "start": 1970.202, "end": 1971.037, "text": "All right, let's keep going.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-301", "start": 1971.374, "end": 1976.143, "text": "I'm going to read a statement from an internal city talking points document on the RSO funds.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-302", "start": 1976.367, "end": 1977.363, "text": "This is on page 10.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-303", "start": 1977.732, "end": 1985.324, "text": "For people who are following, this is a comment regarding the city's claim that the RSO funds were not included in the TAO because of timing.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-304", "start": 1985.902, "end": 1993.799, "text": "The comment reads in full, quote, for what it's worth, I think CBO might technically disagree with this, as their recommendation was to put into the TAO.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-305", "start": 1994.73, "end": 1999.128, "text": "Um, Donnie and I provided direction to hold off given the continued uncertainty.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-306", "start": 1999.417, "end": 2001.167, "text": "So let's start with, is that your comment?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-307", "start": 2002.114, "end": 2005.517, "text": "Uh, that would be consistent with my recollection of that comment.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-308", "start": 2005.565, "end": 2005.629, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-309", "start": 2006.699, "end": 2007.008, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-310", "start": 2007.365, "end": 2011.268, "text": "So when did CBO make its recommendation to include the RSO funds in the fall TAO?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-311", "start": 2013.166, "end": 2014.004, "text": "Um, that's a good question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-312", "start": 2014.069, "end": 2015.939, "text": "I don't know specifically when that was made.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-313", "start": 2016.068, "end": 2019.325, "text": "It was a pretty dynamic conversation at that, at that moment.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-314", "start": 2022.064, "end": 2022.324, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-315", "start": 2023.364, "end": 2026.453, "text": "Um, and to whom was that recommendation made and in what form?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-316", "start": 2028.035, "end": 2030.063, "text": "Uh, Councilor, I don't, I don't know the answer to that question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-317", "start": 2030.423, "end": 2030.718, "text": "Apologies.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-318", "start": 2031.909, "end": 2033.774, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-319", "start": 2034.257, "end": 2038.873, "text": "Wrote that you and DCA Oliveira, quote, provided direction to hold off, end quote.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-320", "start": 2038.937, "end": 2040.561, "text": "So can you describe that direction?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-321", "start": 2040.69, "end": 2041.365, "text": "When was it given?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-322", "start": 2041.413, "end": 2042.056, "text": "In what venue?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-323", "start": 2042.137, "end": 2042.554, "text": "And to whom?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-324", "start": 2043.969, "end": 2054.151, "text": "Councilor, again, I can't recall that specific conversation, or I don't know that there's any— I don't have any recollection of that specific language being spoken.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-325", "start": 2054.28, "end": 2068.142, "text": "I know there was robust dialogue about how to approach it in the fall TAO and significant concern, including from myself about the fidelity and accuracy and validity of the numbers.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-326", "start": 2068.803, "end": 2074.666, "text": "And so I'm not surprised that there was discussion about holding off pending that additional due diligence.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-327", "start": 2075.75, "end": 2076.073, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-328", "start": 2076.429, "end": 2094.956, "text": "So just to be clear what I'm hearing, my question is around your quote that you said you did give, or are you saying that you don't— you are not sure that you gave a direct quote that said quote, Donny and I provided direction to hold off given the continued uncertainty, because that's where my question is coming from.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-329", "start": 2095.02, "end": 2098.673, "text": "So I'm wanting to know what is that direction that was given based on what you said.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-330", "start": 2098.769, "end": 2103.961, "text": "So are you saying you don't recall saying the original quote or you don't recall the direction that you gave?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-331", "start": 2104.297, "end": 2104.97, "text": "Yeah, no, got it.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-332", "start": 2105.018, "end": 2106.605, "text": "Thank you for the clarification, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-333", "start": 2107.342, "end": 2128.48, "text": "I did specifically recommend that we not include it in the fall TAO because I was, I think, rightfully concerned Okay.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-334", "start": 2128.48, "end": 2130.04, "text": "Um, let's keep it going.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-335", "start": 2130.04, "end": 2143.72, "text": "So I want to ask about another comment on that same document, page 10, and it reads, quote, noting that on October 9th it was communicated to me that these dollars might be either committed to an existing project or used for a new project.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-336", "start": 2143.72, "end": 2143.74, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-337", "start": 2143.886, "end": 2149.206, "text": "And/or deployed in December 2025 NOFA, which was a reason that we did not include initially in the TAO.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-338", "start": 2149.751, "end": 2157.058, "text": "I don't think we need to reference that here, but want to make sure this statement isn't inconsistent with other potential public records, end quote.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-339", "start": 2157.138, "end": 2158.324, "text": "So is this your comment?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-340", "start": 2159.045, "end": 2161.048, "text": "That sounds consistent with an email that I sent.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-341", "start": 2161.945, "end": 2164.381, "text": "Okay, who communicated that to you on October 9th?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-342", "start": 2165.294, "end": 2167.666, "text": "Oh my gosh, I don't, I don't know that, Councilor, and I apologize.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-343", "start": 2167.762, "end": 2170.085, "text": "I don't have that detail handy in front of me.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-344", "start": 2171.29, "end": 2171.468, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-345", "start": 2171.891, "end": 2174.868, "text": "And on what basis did you understand the funds to be committed?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-346", "start": 2176.926, "end": 2181.671, "text": "I'm sure that would have been based upon a conversation with Housing Bureau, with DCA Oliveira.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-347", "start": 2181.767, "end": 2193.173, "text": "And again, I think I want to be cautious and provide a reminder to folks that I, at that time, also had some confusion about the buckets of money.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-348", "start": 2193.269, "end": 2200.049, "text": "So I want to be just transparent about the fact that in that communication, I may have been thinking about a different bucket of money.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-349", "start": 2201.75, "end": 2206.958, "text": "Commitment of those dollars that was not consistent with the legal obligations around the RSO fund.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-350", "start": 2208.35, "end": 2209.385, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-351", "start": 2209.466, "end": 2212.983, "text": "But did you independently verify that representation before relying on it?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-352", "start": 2213.659, "end": 2224.95, "text": "I had not completed that work in advance of the fall TAO, which is another reason why I was very concerned about the information being submitted before we had the opportunity to do that due diligence.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-353", "start": 2225.839, "end": 2225.985, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-354", "start": 2226.633, "end": 2237.175, "text": "So Director Easterick's October 13th memo, which is on page 7, proposed using the same dollars on new rent subsidies, home sharing, legal defense, and returning $2.7 million to the general fund.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-355", "start": 2237.625, "end": 2240.305, "text": "None of those were existing commitments or scheduled NOFAs.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-356", "start": 2240.433, "end": 2241.155, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-357", "start": 2241.636, "end": 2243.819, "text": "And were you made aware of that October 13th memo?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-358", "start": 2245.311, "end": 2250.286, "text": "Um, Councilor, I don't believe I saw that formal memo at that time.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-359", "start": 2250.783, "end": 2253.559, "text": "I was provided that memo shortly after that discussion, I believe.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-360", "start": 2254.874, "end": 2262.424, "text": "And were you aware that PHB was referring to these funds as uncommitted or unavailable for allocation and actively proposing allocation options?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-361", "start": 2263.674, "end": 2266.512, "text": "Um, I'm sorry, can it cut out?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-362", "start": 2266.656, "end": 2268.708, "text": "Can I just repeat the question, please, to make sure I understand?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-363", "start": 2269.205, "end": 2269.301, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-364", "start": 2269.557, "end": 2278.214, "text": "So were you aware that PHB was referring to these funds as uncommitted or unavailable for allocation and were also actively proposing allocation options?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-365", "start": 2278.262, "end": 2280.169, "text": "Were you aware that that was going on in the background?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-366", "start": 2280.586, "end": 2283.424, "text": "Uh, I was not necessarily aware, um, of that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-367", "start": 2283.488, "end": 2300.17, "text": "And again, I'm— the timeline is I will say I was under the belief that, as many were, that those funds would have been budgeted and accounted for in the budget at that time.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-368", "start": 2301.26, "end": 2303.9, "text": "I only have a minute and a half.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-369", "start": 2304.38, "end": 2312.2, "text": "So the recommendations originally sent to DCA Oliveira on August 27th were subsequently revised on October 13th to include $2.5 million in emergency relief.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-370", "start": 2312.804, "end": 2314.579, "text": "$2.75 Million returned to the general fund.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-371", "start": 2314.627, "end": 2315.483, "text": "This is on page 7.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-372", "start": 2315.902, "end": 2320.695, "text": "So were you part of the efforts to help close the TAO deficit with these unbudgeted RSO funds?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-373", "start": 2322.287, "end": 2323.401, "text": "Councilor, thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-374", "start": 2323.449, "end": 2326.289, "text": "I don't believe I was involved in that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-375", "start": 2326.983, "end": 2330.582, "text": "The memo was produced without my participation.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-376", "start": 2330.759, "end": 2336.41, "text": "I know there was an effort at that time to identify all possible solutions to help solve for that known gap.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-377", "start": 2337.25, "end": 2351.672, "text": "So I know there had been broad efforts to I have one last question for Ruth, if you could come up, please.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-378", "start": 2351.819, "end": 2352.401, "text": "Thank you, Janice.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-379", "start": 2359.49, "end": 2360.379, "text": "Hi, Ruth.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-380", "start": 2360.59, "end": 2363.291, "text": "So, uh, well, I guess Director Levine, apologies.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-381", "start": 2363.793, "end": 2370.325, "text": "Um, so cited comments in internal city documents indicating that CBO recommended the RSO funds be included in the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-382", "start": 2370.408, "end": 2371.223, "text": "So can you confirm that that is accurate?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-383", "start": 2374.152, "end": 2376.03, "text": "Yeah, Ruth Levine, CBO Director.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-384", "start": 2376.496, "end": 2378.343, "text": "For the record, yes, that's accurate.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-385", "start": 2378.423, "end": 2379.274, "text": "I did recommend that.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-386", "start": 2380.173, "end": 2383.786, "text": "Do you know when that recommendation was made and in what form?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-387", "start": 2385.151, "end": 2399.394, "text": "I think the first time was probably via— there was an email thread that Jonas was referring to in early October, between about October 5th and October 9th or so, where we were discussing unbudgeted funds in housing.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-388", "start": 2399.458, "end": 2406.934, "text": "And I said, I thought I said at one point that I thought it should be included in the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-389", "start": 2407.562, "end": 2415.776, "text": "Okay, my last question is, to your knowledge, was council informed that CBO had recommended inclusion and that that recommendation was overridden?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-390", "start": 2418.352, "end": 2421.65, "text": "Not to my knowledge, but I'm not involved in all the conversations.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-391", "start": 2422.426, "end": 2422.895, "text": "Sounds good.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-392", "start": 2422.96, "end": 2423.833, "text": "Well, that is your time.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-393", "start": 2423.946, "end": 2424.512, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-394", "start": 2425.709, "end": 2426.744, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Avalos.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-395", "start": 2427.164, "end": 2430.063, "text": "We'll go to Councilor Murillo and then whoever gets in the queue first, I guess.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-396", "start": 2431.689, "end": 2434.35, "text": "Thank you, Chair Kanal.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-397", "start": 2435.172, "end": 2436.479, "text": "Thanks everyone for being here today.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-398", "start": 2436.624, "end": 2444.981, "text": "I think it's important to bring this transparency forward, even if it is a bit unusual for our new form of government and we're practicing doing this for the first time.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-399", "start": 2446.579, "end": 2450.24, "text": "I believe my line of questioning is for DCA Oliveira.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-400", "start": 2450.305, "end": 2451.423, "text": "If you could come back up, please.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-401", "start": 2451.618, "end": 2451.99, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-402", "start": 2455.747, "end": 2457.998, "text": "And there's going to be a game of musical chairs here, I think, a little.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-403", "start": 2458.047, "end": 2460.038, "text": "So maybe as you start your time, councilors, if you could just let us know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-404", "start": 2460.683, "end": 2466.064, "text": "If you wanna make an intro comment, it might be helpful to say who you'd like to come up while we're doing it, and I won't charge you time for what I just said.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-405", "start": 2466.369, "end": 2467.124, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-406", "start": 2467.252, "end": 2469.614, "text": "And if you could give me maybe a 5-minute time check, that'd be great.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-407", "start": 2469.742, "end": 2470.899, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-408", "start": 2471.862, "end": 2484.986, "text": "So CFO Beery indicated that on October 9th, he was informed of the RSO funds that, quote, might either be committed to an existing project and/or deployed in the December 2025 NOFA, quote, end quote.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-409", "start": 2485.098, "end": 2488.391, "text": "And this may have been the reason the funds were not in the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-410", "start": 2489.175, "end": 2492.616, "text": "Though there is some lack of clarity on whether this refers to the RSO funds.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-411", "start": 2493.117, "end": 2495.686, "text": "Was it you who communicated this to CFO Beery?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-412", "start": 2496.733, "end": 2499.094, "text": "Councilor, I don't recall that specific conversation.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-413", "start": 2499.239, "end": 2505.203, "text": "At that point, I was focused on unpacking the RSO number.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-414", "start": 2506.347, "end": 2506.524, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-415", "start": 2507.072, "end": 2509.377, "text": "Do you know who communicated this to CFO Beery?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-416", "start": 2510.376, "end": 2511.263, "text": "I don't, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-417", "start": 2514.119, "end": 2514.709, "text": "I do refer to the memo.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-418", "start": 2515.102, "end": 2522.998, "text": "For clarity, I do recall there was some confusion about 2 distinct tranches of resources in the Bureau being solved for.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-419", "start": 2523.769, "end": 2529.755, "text": "But in this particular instance, I don't know where the information was coming from, one bucket versus the RSO dollars.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-420", "start": 2530.991, "end": 2531.328, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-421", "start": 2531.537, "end": 2535.292, "text": "Were you aware at the time that CFO Beery had been told the funds were committed?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-422", "start": 2536.608, "end": 2540.909, "text": "I'm not— I don't want to speculate on what the CFO knew at when.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-423", "start": 2542.128, "end": 2542.305, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-424", "start": 2543.412, "end": 2551.753, "text": "At any point during— between October 9th and November 20th, did you correct that understanding with CFO Beery or think to notify City Council?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-425", "start": 2552.555, "end": 2554.769, "text": "Thank you for the question on this particular case.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-426", "start": 2555.843, "end": 2564.89, "text": "By the time we got to like November, I would say there was clarity that we were talking about— when we spoke about the $11.7 million at the time, we were talking about RSO dollars.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-427", "start": 2565.724, "end": 2568.435, "text": "When that clarity happened for him, I'll allow him to speak to that.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-428", "start": 2570.721, "end": 2582.079, "text": "When it came to the appropriate time to communicate to council, by mid-September, after the meeting that I had with staff, I was very concerned about the accuracy of the information.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-429", "start": 2582.836, "end": 2583.63, "text": "I wanted more information.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-430", "start": 2583.678, "end": 2590.418, "text": "I wanted to understand various elements, the use, the— there's a series of questions I was just asking for more information on.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-431", "start": 2592.218, "end": 2595.778, "text": "And that also was part of this question of like, what's actually going on with these dollars?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-432", "start": 2597.752, "end": 2606.568, "text": "And so, and I will acknowledge this at this point too, there was probably a communication necessary to say, hey, we found something, some discrepancy.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-433", "start": 2606.745, "end": 2612.75, "text": "We don't have enough detail to share, but there is some concern here in this particular fund.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-434", "start": 2613.344, "end": 2613.521, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-435", "start": 2613.81, "end": 2614.645, "text": "I acknowledge that.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-436", "start": 2615.095, "end": 2618.884, "text": "So we were still at that time unpacking the accuracy of the information though.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-437", "start": 2619.511, "end": 2619.768, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-438", "start": 2620.265, "end": 2626.303, "text": "So to go through the timeline, and we submitted this online so folks can see it online and it's being shared on the screen right now.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-439", "start": 2626.913, "end": 2631.377, "text": "Sometime between late July and mid-August, you are verbally informed of the unspent funds.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-440", "start": 2631.473, "end": 2633.641, "text": "You can see that in pages 4 to 5 of the packet.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-441", "start": 2634.283, "end": 2650.42, "text": "On August 27th, Director Hisarich emails you a written proposal for spending the $12 million with a clear statement that from PHB that, quote, this expenditure plan will need to be approved by council in the fall bump, aka the TAO as it's called now.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-442", "start": 2651.062, "end": 2651.865, "text": "And that's on page 6.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-443", "start": 2652.186, "end": 2653.26, "text": "For folks who want the quotes.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-444", "start": 2654.351, "end": 2660.732, "text": "In early September, you inform Mayor Wilson, CA Jordan, and CFO Buri of approximately $12 million.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-445", "start": 2661.486, "end": 2662.287, "text": "That's page 8.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-446", "start": 2662.945, "end": 2671.972, "text": "On September 19th, you told Hisarich that the, quote, ship had sailed on including the money in the TAO and told her not to inform Councilor Zimmerman of the funds.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-447", "start": 2672.805, "end": 2682.922, "text": "On October 13th, Hisarich delivers the final revised expenditure memo after integrating comments and ideas from you in several instances that go back Thank you.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-448", "start": 2684.032, "end": 2687.121, "text": "On October 20th, the Finance Committee takes up the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-449", "start": 2687.732, "end": 2690.371, "text": "On October 30th, Hisarich is placed on leave.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-450", "start": 2690.871, "end": 2695.015, "text": "She's told she has until November 20th to accept the severance package.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-451", "start": 2695.08, "end": 2696.096, "text": "That's on page 12.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-452", "start": 2696.757, "end": 2700.969, "text": "And on November 12th, council hears the first reading of the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-453", "start": 2701.998, "end": 2710.126, "text": "So by my count, over those 3 months, the executive branch took roughly a dozen distinct actions on these funds.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-454", "start": 2711.063, "end": 2733.136, "text": "Drafting a proposal, revising it, briefing the mayor, briefing the city administrator, briefing the CFO, deciding to override the city budget office on including this in the TAO and instructing that a councilor not be told, removing the PHB director, and at none of those moments was council informed about the RSO funds.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-455", "start": 2734.163, "end": 2738.431, "text": "I want to walk through what happened in the next 7 days beginning the day after the first reading of the TAO.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-456", "start": 2739.298, "end": 2756.437, "text": "November 13th, BPS Communications Manager Elliot Kozik informed you that the city was, quote, about to release records to OPB, including, quote, a few not yet public items, among them the October 13th PHB memo that can be found on page 13.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-457", "start": 2757.513, "end": 2763.135, "text": "From November 14th through 16th, you forwarded the October 13th memo to the mayor and his chief of staff.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-458", "start": 2763.794, "end": 2770.267, "text": "The mayor then directed Portland Solutions Director Brocker Knapp to develop a different set of recommendations for the money.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-459", "start": 2770.781, "end": 2779.503, "text": "Those were developed over the weekend of November 15th through 16th and delivered that Monday, the 17th, and you can find those on page 14 through 15.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-460", "start": 2780.483, "end": 2788.755, "text": "November 17th through 18th, the new Portland Solutions recommendations were exchanged between the mayor, you, and interim PHB Director Bonacore.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-461", "start": 2789.159, "end": 2793.375, "text": "With you telling Bonaccor that if he sees any concerns, quote, I need to know today.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-462", "start": 2794.893, "end": 2796.412, "text": "That's on page 14 and 15.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-463", "start": 2796.993, "end": 2804.195, "text": "November 20th, council adopted the fall TAO, and that same day you notified the council of the full $21 million.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-464", "start": 2806.281, "end": 2817.817, "text": "So there are roughly 90 to 100 days between the Portland Housing Bureau Director Hrycerich informing you of the money and your November 20th notification to council.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-465", "start": 2818.428, "end": 2823.71, "text": "Which happened to be the same day as the TAO was passed and the deadline for Hisarich to accept her severance package.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-466", "start": 2824.72, "end": 2828.772, "text": "What prompted you to inform council on November 20th specifically?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-467", "start": 2829.777, "end": 2840.329, "text": "Was it the TAO adoption, Director Hisarich's severance deadline, the revelation that council would soon be made aware of the funds via an imminent public domains release, or was it all 3?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-468", "start": 2841.162, "end": 2845.024, "text": "Uh, A lot to unpack there.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-469", "start": 2845.072, "end": 2846.309, "text": "Let me think about that for a second.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-470", "start": 2846.679, "end": 2855.322, "text": "Uh, there was no correlation between, uh, Director Hissrich's, um, status and the, and the information communicated.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-471", "start": 2855.932, "end": 2860.382, "text": "As I shared, the, the scheduling of the meeting happened the week before.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-472", "start": 2861.699, "end": 2862.92, "text": "That was the time that was scheduled.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-473", "start": 2863.868, "end": 2879.854, "text": "Um, as far as the communication around the why of then, it was when we We started to have more confidence in the number that we were working with, that it was in RSO, it was this use of funds, and this was— this is what it was about.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-474", "start": 2880.897, "end": 2884.762, "text": "Um, and I'm sorry, the third, the third thing was the timing of the TAO.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-475", "start": 2886.093, "end": 2909.626, "text": "The TAO was happening parallel to this, and I would just offer that in this particular setting, the dollars being there was important, and, and our ability to use even the spring TAO to make the adjustment, as you all did, Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-476", "start": 2910.813, "end": 2922.509, "text": "In the final 7 days of a 4-month window, the mayor's office developed a new allocation proposal, briefed an interim director, and informed council, all in the 7 days after the records release was flagged.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-477", "start": 2922.621, "end": 2930.212, "text": "In my count, the mayor's office did not receive any additional information That is more urgency on these funds in a week than in the preceding 100 days.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-478", "start": 2930.888, "end": 2941.853, "text": "Had the public records release not been imminent on November 13th, on what specific date would City Council have been informed of the $21 million in the RSO funding as is required by charter?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-479", "start": 2947.031, "end": 2949.48, "text": "I'm sorry, can you repeat that, the question part?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-480", "start": 2949.808, "end": 2950.597, "text": "I got the first part.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-481", "start": 2952.891, "end": 2953.069, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-482", "start": 2953.23, "end": 2967.914, "text": "On what day were you planning on telling council about the $21 million in RSO funding, given that the administrative body was moving faster than they ever had in the 90 days, 90 to 100 days that we had been informed of it?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-483", "start": 2969.24, "end": 2970.13, "text": "Thank you for the question.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-484", "start": 2970.73, "end": 2979.363, "text": "I think the timing was consistent with where we were at in the process of a lot of things that were happening at the Housing Bureau at the time.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-485", "start": 2979.937, "end": 2983.267, "text": "October was very difficult for the Bureau.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-486", "start": 2983.331, "end": 2989.624, "text": "There was a lot going on, and I would say that there was a— we were also in the middle of a very, you know, dynamic TAO.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-487", "start": 2991.697, "end": 2998.553, "text": "The timing of that also coincided with us having a complete picture of the resources, almost serendipitously in this particular case.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-488", "start": 2999.489, "end": 3013.337, "text": "But again, the part that I acknowledge is that some And some communication to council in September or October, whenever we felt like more clear what was happening was appropriate.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-489", "start": 3013.91, "end": 3019.616, "text": "But I stand by the reality that our confidence in the number until we shared it was quite low.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-490", "start": 3021.208, "end": 3027.05, "text": "And the timing reflected our higher confidence that when we shared the information, it was accurate.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-491", "start": 3029.207, "end": 3029.435, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-492", "start": 3029.532, "end": 3031.499, "text": "I'm getting close to the end of my time here.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-493", "start": 3032.133, "end": 3035.124, "text": "Did anyone instruct you to wait until November 20th before informing council?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-494", "start": 3038.8, "end": 3040.229, "text": "Not to my recollection, Councilor Nowakowski.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-495", "start": 3043.184, "end": 3060.524, "text": "So between September when you decided the TAO was not the vehicle for sharing these RSO funds and November 13th when the records request surfaced, a period of roughly 8 weeks or 2 months, was any council briefing on the RSO funds scheduled, placed on the calendar, or committed to in writing?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-496", "start": 3061.203, "end": 3072.076, "text": "Because I can't help but wonder, looking at all of this timeline, If it weren't for the October 13th memo being surfaced in the OPB records request, would council have ever been informed of these dollars?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-497", "start": 3074.456, "end": 3079.34, "text": "Oh yeah, council would have been informed, absolutely, Councilor, once we had the, the confidence in the numbers.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-498", "start": 3080.079, "end": 3080.465, "text": "Absolutely.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-499", "start": 3080.979, "end": 3082.2, "text": "And that's time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-500", "start": 3082.328, "end": 3083.373, "text": "Thanks, Councilor Murillo.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-501", "start": 3083.935, "end": 3084.858, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kanal.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-502", "start": 3085.961, "end": 3091.298, "text": "And of course, everyone will have a chance to come back around when the queue is exhausted, but at this moment, there's actually nobody in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-503", "start": 3091.996, "end": 3098.327, "text": "Um, so if anyone would like to get into the queue and take their first crack at their 10 minutes, I'd welcome it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-504", "start": 3099.644, "end": 3103.676, "text": "And if those who have already gone would like to come back in, you can also put yourself in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-505", "start": 3103.725, "end": 3105.414, "text": "I'll just call on those who haven't gone already.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-506", "start": 3113.528, "end": 3114.145, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-507", "start": 3114.827, "end": 3115.087, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-508", "start": 3125.076, "end": 3128.175, "text": "The first person I'd like to talk to is, uh, Donnie Oliveira.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-509", "start": 3129.602, "end": 3131.88, "text": "My next one will be for CA Lee.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-510", "start": 3133.817, "end": 3154.773, "text": "Donnie, is it true that your understanding is that the former director of the Housing Bureau was aware of accumulating budget I'm aware of that information now, Councilor.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-511", "start": 3155.403, "end": 3155.645, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-512", "start": 3157.39, "end": 3158.422, "text": "Mr. Lee, same question.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-513", "start": 3161.11, "end": 3161.648, "text": "Same response.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-514", "start": 3161.713, "end": 3166.198, "text": "I'm aware of it now as I sent out the $106 million memo.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-515", "start": 3167.363, "end": 3182.204, "text": "So I just want to clarify that both of you are aware now that we have since learned it sounds like that The former director of the Housing Bureau was aware of accumulating funds that were not budgeted in the normal process as early as January of 2025.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-516", "start": 3182.998, "end": 3183.614, "text": "Thanks, that's all.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-517", "start": 3185.769, "end": 3186.773, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-518", "start": 3190.8, "end": 3193.232, "text": "Once again, there's, uh— oh, sorry, I didn't see it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-519", "start": 3193.312, "end": 3194.102, "text": "Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-520", "start": 3196.872, "end": 3197.549, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-521", "start": 3200.084, "end": 3219.893, "text": "You know, much of the work that is done in spaces like this is subjective, and I'm wondering, City Administrator Lee, if you can share with us a little bit of information about your perspective on how, let's say, baked something should be when you bring it to council.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-522", "start": 3220.695, "end": 3236.261, "text": "There's a, a bit of a push and pull here around making sure that council has good information And I will acknowledge we have not always been our most polite body when we get information and it changes.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-523", "start": 3236.326, "end": 3240.86, "text": "And I understand that there may be some fear of bringing us information before it's baked.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-524", "start": 3241.832, "end": 3249.695, "text": "And I'm also hearing from my colleagues and have heard about this topic before that there's frustration when we don't get something in time.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-525", "start": 3250.197, "end": 3251.625, "text": "So what should we expect?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-526", "start": 3253.69, "end": 3262.809, "text": "With you as city administrator in terms of how baked something is when we hear about it, and on the flip side, how long that means we wait before we hear about it?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-527", "start": 3265.15, "end": 3294.22, "text": "I think coming into this role and something that I've communicated to this body as a whole is, as I'm aware of situations that may have impact to this body and the decisions that you'll be making, Try to at least make you aware of the situation with the caveat to that as a whole, that these numbers may change, or this information is as of the information I have as of today, and that information is subject to change.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-528", "start": 3295.006, "end": 3307.349, "text": "Just being a professional regarding it, this situation varies for different people as it relates to when you communicate something, ensuring that the information that you're communicating is accurate.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-529", "start": 3308.023, "end": 3314.05, "text": "Because you don't want to backpedal from that information at a later date and say, well, sorry, I made a mistake.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-530", "start": 3315.236, "end": 3316.759, "text": "This is the information I have now.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-531", "start": 3317.641, "end": 3322.418, "text": "I think that direction has to come from this body as a whole as how they want to receive information.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-532", "start": 3323.075, "end": 3333.719, "text": "And I think one of the things that this council has communicated to me coming new into this role, you'd rather know now about information as I receive information.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-533", "start": 3334.794, "end": 3342.651, "text": "But to also be open to be able to come back to you and you would be open to saying, hey, this information has changed.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-534", "start": 3343.151, "end": 3361.615, "text": "You know, in any situation like this, a situation where a number is being fluid and it's going to have community impact as well, you want to make sure that information is accurate as it relates to the information that you're giving to council that may become public record.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-535", "start": 3362.441, "end": 3379.624, "text": "So as you go through situations like this, it's, it's one of those situations where you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't situation because you're caught in between a tight situation of, hey, this is important information.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-536", "start": 3381.415, "end": 3387.224, "text": "Council should be aware of this information, but I'm unsure of the accuracy of that information.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-537", "start": 3388.447, "end": 3398.995, "text": "And in any situation, you know, how we move forward in a situation like this is making sure that council is at least aware of the situation.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-538", "start": 3400.149, "end": 3415.522, "text": "We may not provide exact numbers because we're unsure of those exact numbers, but at least making council aware of the situation and the challenge that we're faced with, but also providing council a timeframe of when we anticipate being able to answer that question.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-539", "start": 3416.035, "end": 3421.774, "text": "And I think that goes to your later— latter question of when should we We expect to have that information.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-540", "start": 3422.287, "end": 3438.461, "text": "And I think that's going to be a give and take type of situation, keeping open lines of communication with council as it relates to the matter at hand, but also letting council know where we are with getting them the most accurate information in a timely fashion as possible.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-541", "start": 3439.022, "end": 3440.593, "text": "And that's what we're challenged with.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-542", "start": 3440.641, "end": 3442.212, "text": "That's what we're charged with doing.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-543", "start": 3442.629, "end": 3445.899, "text": "That's the accountability that we're holding ourselves to in this situation.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-544", "start": 3445.963, "end": 3446.091, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-545", "start": 3448.231, "end": 3449.4, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-546", "start": 3450.211, "end": 3452.159, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-547", "start": 3452.305, "end": 3455.761, "text": "I see Councilor Smith in the queue, and then if there's no one else, we'll go back to Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-548", "start": 3456.179, "end": 3456.888, "text": "Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-549", "start": 3459.803, "end": 3460.366, "text": "Thank you, Mr.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-550", "start": 3460.527, "end": 3460.801, "text": "Chair.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-551", "start": 3462.379, "end": 3469.449, "text": "I have a couple of questions that I want to make sure that I get on the record because I just got some new information.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-552", "start": 3469.497, "end": 3477.207, "text": "Could I have CFO Berry and, um, CBO Director, uh, Levine, come up please.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-553", "start": 3487.335, "end": 3487.868, "text": "Good morning.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-554", "start": 3490.553, "end": 3491.085, "text": "Good morning, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-555", "start": 3491.134, "end": 3491.408, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-556", "start": 3493.855, "end": 3524.046, "text": "And actually, I need, um, DCA Oliveira up as well because I'm going to be, um, Speaking from the email exchange that we had last night, while the general explanation for how the funds that created the TAL was, was given, there was, uh, very little specific information.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-557", "start": 3525.043, "end": 3549.353, "text": "And The housing, um, the housing fund dollars that, that I'm talking about, it wasn't clear exactly, and it amounted to $23,991,643 was in the TAL that was in the, uh, housing bond money.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-558", "start": 3550.842, "end": 3551.619, "text": "Are you familiar with that?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-559", "start": 3551.94, "end": 3552.78, "text": "CFO Berry.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-560", "start": 3555.707, "end": 3557.194, "text": "Councilor, I'm trying to— thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-561", "start": 3557.889, "end": 3559.376, "text": "I'm trying to track that number.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-562", "start": 3559.441, "end": 3563.111, "text": "Are you talking about the amount that was in this most recent spring tell?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-563", "start": 3563.386, "end": 3566.717, "text": "Exactly, the one that we voted on last week Wednesday.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-564", "start": 3567.671, "end": 3580.625, "text": "And I was asking about those funds because I wanted to identify— that was a part of the bigger fund that the RSOs and all of the that we're talking about today.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-565", "start": 3580.865, "end": 3594.496, "text": "And I was told that if we tried to appropriate any of those funds, that it would cause us to be in some sort of financial straits because they had contracts out.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-566", "start": 3595.523, "end": 3614.762, "text": "And I was concerned, DCA Oliveira, that when I was told that there were contracts out, I didn't understand how the contracts are out Well, since we had not appropriated the money and since the money was hidden and we just found out about the money, so how could it be for a particular project?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-567", "start": 3615.178, "end": 3618.785, "text": "So then I tried to go over in my mind what that could look like.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-568", "start": 3618.961, "end": 3642.383, "text": "So they could have easily been for other projects, but you wanted to use these particular dollars since they were available, or had they always been identified as the source even though they were not Budgeted, even though they hadn't been budgeted for years, um, according to, to Director Bonacar.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-569", "start": 3643.126, "end": 3645.822, "text": "So I, I'm going somewhere with this.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-570", "start": 3646.806, "end": 3653.775, "text": "And your response yesterday was, was interesting because you sent me back an Excel spreadsheet.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-571", "start": 3653.921, "end": 3657.935, "text": "I asked you, tell me how much is owed for each project.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-572", "start": 3659.43, "end": 3659.686, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-573", "start": 3659.782, "end": 3666.368, "text": "Send me the contracts, as I was told that I would get contracts, but I didn't get contracts.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-574", "start": 3666.416, "end": 3674.924, "text": "I got links to projects, and many of these projects were like 4 years old, 2 years old, 3 years old.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-575", "start": 3675.629, "end": 3678.289, "text": "So again, I'm new to the City Council.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-576", "start": 3678.433, "end": 3708.472, "text": "I don't know how we pay our bills, but I do know that we didn't pay our bill to prosper last year, and I, I was wondering if this is a pattern in practice That our budget office practices where we hold on to money and wait to deliver, or I don't know, because as a small business person, I could not wait to pay an invoice for 4 years and then come back and say, oh, we were going to use that money for this project.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-577", "start": 3708.52, "end": 3714.449, "text": "So can you explain to me how we can appropriate funds when it was never authorized?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-578", "start": 3715.514, "end": 3720.705, "text": "Thank you for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-579", "start": 3720.867, "end": 3729.787, "text": "I just will note for the public and for Council, we're referring to 4 housing bond projects: Alder 9, the Auroras, Crescent Court, and Hollywood Hub.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-580", "start": 3730.674, "end": 3737.195, "text": "What Councilor Smith is asking is there was $23 million in housing bond resources.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-581", "start": 3737.94, "end": 3738.41, "text": "Trust fund.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-582", "start": 3738.702, "end": 3739.674, "text": "I'm sorry?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-583", "start": 3739.82, "end": 3740.322, "text": "It's the trust fund, right?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-584", "start": 3740.371, "end": 3740.614, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-585", "start": 3741.142, "end": 3743.995, "text": "It's their housing— it's the housing— the housing bond dollars.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-586", "start": 3744.075, "end": 3744.156, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-587", "start": 3744.268, "end": 3744.845, "text": "That's what those are.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-588", "start": 3745.774, "end": 3754.254, "text": "And those dollars were confirmed by ordinance by council in various years going, going back about 6 or 7 years.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-589", "start": 3754.703, "end": 3759.575, "text": "So council authorizes the bureau to use housing bond dollars specific to those projects.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-590", "start": 3760.361, "end": 3764.897, "text": "3 Of those 4 projects that I shared with the councilor are already built and have people living in them.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-591", "start": 3765.426, "end": 3776.22, "text": "The 4th is the Hollywood Hub project, which you've all seen as you drive down So the $23 million remaining are all going to those projects.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-592", "start": 3776.22, "end": 3784.64, "text": "And you might ask, to your question, Councilor, how could we possibly be spending dollars from the housing bond still on projects that people are already living in?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-593", "start": 3784.64, "end": 3785.92, "text": "Great question.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-594", "start": 3785.92, "end": 3789.31, "text": "So it's pretty standard in affordable housing deals.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-595", "start": 3790.44, "end": 3796.14, "text": "Funders, in this case the City of Portland, are continuing to make disbursements to projects even after they're open.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-596", "start": 3796.14, "end": 3796.4, "text": "So the $23 million And is going to the projects that are already open?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-597", "start": 3796.587, "end": 3797.309, "text": "There's a variety of reasons.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-598", "start": 3797.405, "end": 3806.265, "text": "There's developer fee installments for the nonprofits, there's conversion costs, there's occupancy stabilization, especially for permanent supportive housing like many of these are.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-599", "start": 3806.875, "end": 3809.17, "text": "We're truing up the cost of the project.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-600", "start": 3809.523, "end": 3820.565, "text": "So for the 3 of the 4, those disbursements projects were— disbursement payments that are happening right now are truing up the end of the projects, our commitment by ordinance from housing bond dollars to those.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-601", "start": 3820.903, "end": 3827.751, "text": "The 4th project, which has The only one that has about $7.7 million remaining in disbursement is for the Hollywood Hub, which is still being built.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-602", "start": 3827.8, "end": 3831.264, "text": "So you can imagine we'll make those payments once that project is in completion.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-603", "start": 3831.841, "end": 3843.821, "text": "So, Councilor, to answer your question, it's not that we have new contracts that this year— the remaining $23 million is what's owed to those projects as committed by council, in this case your predecessors.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-604", "start": 3844.575, "end": 3848.889, "text": "And if we pay for those projects, they don't necessarily have to come out of this pot of money.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-605", "start": 3848.969, "end": 3850.14, "text": "They could come out of general fund.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-606", "start": 3850.188, "end": 3853.604, "text": "They could come out of any other CDBG fund that you have.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-607", "start": 3853.941, "end": 3857.566, "text": "They don't have to specifically come out of this pot, correct?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-608", "start": 3858.287, "end": 3862.665, "text": "There are scenarios where we could replace resources.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-609", "start": 3862.922, "end": 3867.156, "text": "I would caveat that housing bond dollars have specific restrictions.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-610", "start": 3867.204, "end": 3872.256, "text": "So if you do that, you'd still have to honor the intent of the bond dollars with a new project.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-611", "start": 3872.721, "end": 3885.908, "text": "In this particular case, because these projects have already— 3 of the 4 are already built, To try to do budget machinations now would probably not be best practice.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-612", "start": 3886.39, "end": 3891.044, "text": "It's possible, but those bond dollars were very explicitly allocated to those projects.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-613", "start": 3891.931, "end": 3892.27, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-614", "start": 3892.415, "end": 3893.964, "text": "That was a very good explanation.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-615", "start": 3894.029, "end": 3895.853, "text": "So here comes my last question.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-616", "start": 3896.53, "end": 3898.87, "text": "I'm looking at the $7.7 million.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-617", "start": 3900.016, "end": 3904.068, "text": "It's supposed to be disbursed during fiscal year '26-'27.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-618", "start": 3905.257, "end": 3916.614, "text": "And since our '26-'27 budget has not been approved, this $7.7 million can be spent other places as well because it is not appropriated or contracted out.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-619", "start": 3917.274, "end": 3929.178, "text": "And you would actually— if we did appropriate those $7.7 million, you would have to find another place to fund that last installment, correct?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-620", "start": 3929.308, "end": 3931.285, "text": "Because they're not— you can't appropriate this yet.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-621", "start": 3931.35, "end": 3938.556, "text": "It says So it's actually a balance in that account, looking at your spreadsheet.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-622", "start": 3939.873, "end": 3941.242, "text": "Thank you for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-623", "start": 3941.548, "end": 3944.754, "text": "It's a balance, but the target is due to the project.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-624", "start": 3944.802, "end": 3953.295, "text": "So if we took those dollars out from the housing bond resources and reappropriated it somewhere else, we would now have a hole for that project that would have to be—.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-625", "start": 3953.57, "end": 3955.107, "text": "You would just take it from a different pot.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-626", "start": 3955.188, "end": 3957.599, "text": "You could take it from CDBG, you could take it from general fund, you could take it from other funds.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-627", "start": 3957.786, "end": 3958.012, "text": "Fund.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-628", "start": 3958.061, "end": 3962.369, "text": "You could take it from other places, and in fact, you could actually take it from the reserve fund.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-629", "start": 3966.07, "end": 3967.3, "text": "Councilor, then you can pause the timer.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-630", "start": 3967.398, "end": 3970.442, "text": "I just want to understand how this relates to the $20.7 million.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-631", "start": 3970.945, "end": 3978.101, "text": "Um, this is a part of the $20— this is a— this— it expanded from $20 to $40 to $106 to $145.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-632", "start": 3978.23, "end": 3980.965, "text": "This is a part of that whole money that was hidden.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-633", "start": 3981.71, "end": 3994.974, "text": "Um, so the question is If I wanted to appropriate the $2.2 million that I requested, it could actually come out of here because it didn't get appropriated for '25-'26.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-634", "start": 3995.36, "end": 4002.73, "text": "You have it on your balance sheet as being disbursed during '26-'27, and you have a balance.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-635", "start": 4003.581, "end": 4004.673, "text": "So there's a balance there.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-636", "start": 4004.77, "end": 4007.789, "text": "I just want to just recognize that you have a balance in that account.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-637", "start": 4008.624, "end": 4017.383, "text": "There is a balance, Councilor, and I would definitely want to work with city attorneys and staff to get back on the, you know, with high confidence that we can use those monies as you might intend.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-638", "start": 4018.008, "end": 4018.345, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-639", "start": 4018.393, "end": 4026.581, "text": "So I just wanted to make sure because I was told there was no balance last week, but today when I asked for the question, you responded, and now, now there's a balance in that account.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-640", "start": 4026.965, "end": 4028.776, "text": "I appreciate you getting me that information.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-641", "start": 4028.824, "end": 4034.064, "text": "That's why I sent it to you last night, because I wanted to take a look at it, uh, and I wanted to make sure.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-642", "start": 4034.272, "end": 4049.485, "text": "And the reason why I'm asking, um, Ruth and Jonas to come up, because is that Is that a pattern and a practice for us to have balances but actually say that all the money has been appropriated?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-643", "start": 4049.598, "end": 4051.03, "text": "Is— do we normally do that?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-644", "start": 4055.937, "end": 4061.233, "text": "I'm not fully tracking what the balance is, having just seen it in my inbox this morning.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-645", "start": 4061.345, "end": 4075.529, "text": "But I will say, as a general matter, the way fund balances work is that when you have a restricted fund, anything that is unspent at the end of the fiscal year becomes a part of ending fund balance.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-646", "start": 4075.609, "end": 4078.081, "text": "That is just how the ACFR is built.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-647", "start": 4078.129, "end": 4080.857, "text": "That's how— that's true in all governments.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-648", "start": 4081.467, "end": 4087.454, "text": "And it can be appropriated in the next fiscal year as beginning fund balance.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-649", "start": 4088.609, "end": 4103.74, "text": "And so as a general matter, we, you know, appropriate how much we expect to have in that fiscal year, and anything that is unspent Ought to move to the next fiscal year.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-650", "start": 4104.189, "end": 4113.246, "text": "We do project how much we expect to have in the next fiscal year, and we can budget that as budgeted beginning fund balance in the next fiscal year.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-651", "start": 4113.31, "end": 4118.712, "text": "And that is a projection that ought to be then trued up once we have the actual ending fund balance.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-652", "start": 4118.777, "end": 4120.86, "text": "But that's a general description of how it works.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-653", "start": 4121.021, "end": 4122.111, "text": "And last question, Ruth.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-654", "start": 4122.624, "end": 4126.599, "text": "Can council appropriate that balance before the end of the year?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-655", "start": 4127.276, "end": 4132.664, "text": "The fiscal year is over to a project for '25-'26?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-656", "start": 4137.855, "end": 4146.181, "text": "I guess I think I'm tracking the question is if you expect there to be unspent dollars in the current fiscal year, can you appropriate—.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-657", "start": 4146.181, "end": 4146.472, "text": "No, no, no.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-658", "start": 4146.537, "end": 4149.88, "text": "Right now, if we put an ordinance in, there's a balance in that account.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-659", "start": 4150.219, "end": 4152.689, "text": "It says it's $8.2 million.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-660", "start": 4153.863, "end": 4159.516, "text": "We do an ordinance next week to take some of those dollars from that account.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-661", "start": 4160.19, "end": 4160.961, "text": "There's a balance there.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-662", "start": 4161.153, "end": 4167.737, "text": "Again, assuming that it's legally, um, that it's compliant legally with the intended uses of the restricted fund.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-663", "start": 4168.219, "end": 4168.54, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-664", "start": 4168.62, "end": 4169.696, "text": "That's what I wanted to find out.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-665", "start": 4169.824, "end": 4170.097, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-666", "start": 4170.258, "end": 4170.9, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-667", "start": 4170.948, "end": 4174.674, "text": "So we let that go just a little over, but thanks for, uh, answering the question there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-668", "start": 4175.364, "end": 4178.784, "text": "Um, next in the queue is Councilor Green, followed by Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-669", "start": 4178.833, "end": 4184.019, "text": "I'll also just note really quick that the first stopping point we have after about 10:45, we're going to take a short break.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-670", "start": 4185.748, "end": 4187.518, "text": "Councilor Green, you have about a minute and a half left.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-671", "start": 4189.44, "end": 4190.673, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-672", "start": 4190.754, "end": 4192.945, "text": "DC Oliveira, my question— my follow-up question is for you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-673", "start": 4193.351, "end": 4193.951, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-674", "start": 4196.528, "end": 4206.37, "text": "You indicated that the decision was made by the mayor to inform council once the precise number, $11,750,000, was known with some confidence.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-675", "start": 4207.373, "end": 4210.579, "text": "That decision was made about a week prior to informing council on November 20th.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-676", "start": 4211.821, "end": 4214.257, "text": "I believe so, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-677", "start": 4214.354, "end": 4216.015, "text": "I think that's accurate.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-678", "start": 4216.096, "end": 4216.37, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-679", "start": 4217.402, "end": 4231.914, "text": "This number, $11,750,000, is the same number that was in Director Hystrich's August 27th memo, and it's the same number that was in the October 13th memo and in your email to Council on November 20th.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-680", "start": 4232.369, "end": 4235.158, "text": "So this number did not change over those iterations.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-681", "start": 4236.019, "end": 4238.734, "text": "What did change was the internal recommendations for how to spend that money.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-682", "start": 4238.942, "end": 4244.305, "text": "To spend that money developed by Portland Solutions over a weekend at the mayor's direction.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-683", "start": 4245.89, "end": 4252.715, "text": "Did you instruct at any time before that, did you instruct Director Hissrich to identify a way to close the TOW deficit with the RSO money?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-684", "start": 4254.47, "end": 4258.838, "text": "Councilor, there was definitely a— we had a— there was 2 conversations that were happening in parallel.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-685", "start": 4259.016, "end": 4262.317, "text": "There was a broader conversation we were having as a city more broadly.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-686", "start": 4262.738, "end": 4264.226, "text": "So I'll just specific to my service area.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-687", "start": 4265.898, "end": 4266.25, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-688", "start": 4266.715, "end": 4273.526, "text": "As we were evaluating ways to reduce spending, either hiring freezes, reduction in EMS spending, etc., right?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-689", "start": 4273.574, "end": 4274.68, "text": "So we were looking at that.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-690", "start": 4275.224, "end": 4280.657, "text": "So there's a conversation about how to reduce as a service area, do our part to close that gap.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-691", "start": 4281.138, "end": 4281.442, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-692", "start": 4281.843, "end": 4293.478, "text": "As we were evaluating those potential RSO dollars, after we had the September 18th meeting, I asked the teams like what was legally in bounds with RSO.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-693", "start": 4294.103, "end": 4303.449, "text": "And so they contemplated a variety of things and the director did contribute a recommendation for sort of a general return to general fund as an option.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-694", "start": 4303.498, "end": 4304.283, "text": "And that's what I see.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-695", "start": 4304.363, "end": 4306.511, "text": "That's what I see in the October 13th communication.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-696", "start": 4306.559, "end": 4310.952, "text": "It says per our— per instructions, here's a revised plan for general fund return X, Y, and Z.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-697", "start": 4311.257, "end": 4311.321, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-698", "start": 4311.513, "end": 4312.09, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-699", "start": 4312.299, "end": 4312.844, "text": "Any councilor?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-700", "start": 4313.18, "end": 4313.341, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-701", "start": 4313.517, "end": 4313.693, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-702", "start": 4313.773, "end": 4313.886, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-703", "start": 4313.934, "end": 4315.136, "text": "Sorry, I was gonna, 'cause I—.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-704", "start": 4316.964, "end": 4317.658, "text": "Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-705", "start": 4318.239, "end": 4320.692, "text": "Yeah, if we could have the finance staff please come up, budget staff.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-706", "start": 4320.757, "end": 4321.08, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-707", "start": 4321.822, "end": 4335.113, "text": "So, um, you know, in theory, right, council can appropriate funds to be executed in a given year, but we also appropriate reserve funds.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-708", "start": 4336.033, "end": 4350.576, "text": "I'm getting a nod from our budget director, so that statement makes me confirm my entire career, which is we must be aware of all All funds within a— all money within a fund in order to make those determinations.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-709", "start": 4350.641, "end": 4351.745, "text": "Again, I'm getting a nod.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-710", "start": 4352.564, "end": 4367.488, "text": "So if we have a fund balance and we both want to appropriate funds as well as establish a reserve for that same fund balance, does council need to be made aware of the entire fund or just those that are intended for appropriations?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-711", "start": 4370.153, "end": 4371.582, "text": "Thank you, Councilor, who asked the question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-712", "start": 4372.224, "end": 4382.661, "text": "It is, Council should be, and I believe with maybe one rare exception that we've been discussing for the last few months, made aware of that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-713", "start": 4383.48, "end": 4386.53, "text": "Those fund balances are appropriated in the budget.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-714", "start": 4386.852, "end": 4390.207, "text": "Often there's a line called contingency, which is that amount.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-715", "start": 4390.93, "end": 4391.588, "text": "Great, thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-716", "start": 4392.215, "end": 4393.258, "text": "I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-717", "start": 4397.516, "end": 4432.212, "text": "I'm wondering if, in your best estimation, why Director Hissrich, the former director of Portland Housing Bureau, why she made a recommendation for the $12 million to be executed, the appropriated part, but didn't feel it necessary to inform us about The remaining $9 million that her staff had made her aware of, meaning they were attempting to establish a reserve, which is a well-meaning and very common government practice.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-718", "start": 4433.095, "end": 4450.823, "text": "But would council be able to make such a determination about the right size of appropriating funds for execution and the appropriation— appropriate size for a reserve if we don't know about what is being recommended in a reserve if we are not made aware of that entire fund.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-719", "start": 4451.421, "end": 4455.464, "text": "Do you have a best estimation for why she approached this decision package that way?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-720", "start": 4456.264, "end": 4458.761, "text": "Councilor, I can't speculate on that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-721", "start": 4459.773, "end": 4460.018, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-722", "start": 4473.184, "end": 4488.309, "text": "Is there a memo that you're aware of from the Housing Bureau that prior to November or prior to October discussed the entire $21 million?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-723", "start": 4488.487, "end": 4492.457, "text": "Because I'm only aware of a memo that discussed the $12 million.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-724", "start": 4495.308, "end": 4496.825, "text": "Yeah, Councilor, thank you for that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-725", "start": 4496.921, "end": 4500.406, "text": "I am not aware of a communication.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-726", "start": 4500.454, "end": 4506.323, "text": "I'm trying to think back There's been some information that's come to light over the last few weeks that occurred prior to my knowledge.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-727", "start": 4507.238, "end": 4510.767, "text": "I certainly wasn't aware of anything prior to that October date that we previously discussed.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-728", "start": 4511.473, "end": 4527.595, "text": "Ruth, as the budget director, if you had an office, a department, anybody that came to you and they said, we want to execute this much funds, but they never told you about the stuff they wanted to keep in reserve, how would that make you feel as the budget director?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-729", "start": 4529.766, "end": 4534.709, "text": "Um, I can just say I would recommend that they budget the full amount, which is what I did.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-730", "start": 4535.733, "end": 4545.459, "text": "And that's because that's the legal practice in Oregon, is that you have to identify— even if you're not going to touch it in that year, you have to identify all funds that exist in your bank account, to use more lay terms here?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-731", "start": 4545.847, "end": 4546.073, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-732", "start": 4546.655, "end": 4565.168, "text": "Okay, so to your best knowledge though, you don't have a reason, a A, um, even if we disagree with it, but a thoughtful, like, this is why we only were told in the summer months about $12 million instead of $21 million.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-733", "start": 4565.216, "end": 4569.6, "text": "Nothing has surfaced in terms of the why behind that other than it just didn't happen.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-734", "start": 4572.124, "end": 4572.657, "text": "Either one of you?", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-735", "start": 4573.481, "end": 4573.981, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-736", "start": 4574.708, "end": 4576.081, "text": "Okay, I appreciate it.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-737", "start": 4576.226, "end": 4585.962, "text": "Um, you know, this, uh, this has been challenging in terms of— I, I really appreciate the questions about We talked about due diligence and having good facts before we go.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-738", "start": 4586.221, "end": 4608.617, "text": "And I am hearing, I think, through all of these conversations today from multiple staff who've come up— thank you— just about how non-in-whatever confident we were in those initial numbers in those fall months, meaning there was something else going on at the Portland Housing Bureau before you felt confident enough to bring us the whole number.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-739", "start": 4608.84, "end": 4610.977, "text": "So thanks again for both coming up.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-740", "start": 4611.041, "end": 4611.576, "text": "That's all, Chair.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-741", "start": 4614.296, "end": 4615.299, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-742", "start": 4615.753, "end": 4617.775, "text": "Next in the queue is Dunphy, then we'll take the break.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-743", "start": 4618.485, "end": 4618.759, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-744", "start": 4618.808, "end": 4619.034, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-745", "start": 4621.47, "end": 4622.986, "text": "Oh, Jonas and Ruth, please come back.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-746", "start": 4623.035, "end": 4623.357, "text": "Sorry.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-747", "start": 4623.97, "end": 4624.358, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-748", "start": 4624.858, "end": 4635.013, "text": "You know, colleagues, when I read this, when I've read through these documents and I'm hearing what we're hearing today, I can see that there are many layers of people choosing to manage information about these dollars.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-749", "start": 4635.321, "end": 4636.27, "text": "The Housing Bureau, Thank you.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-750", "start": 4636.398, "end": 4636.895, "text": "I have a question for the CFO.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-751", "start": 4636.943, "end": 4650.941, "text": "Trying to come up with a plan for the dollars before publicly discussing them, the DCAs and the CFO managing the information about general fund eligible parts of these dollars prior to the TAO and the confusion of what dollars can, you know, the color of money questions.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-752", "start": 4651.374, "end": 4664.425, "text": "It seems possible that a public records request triggered the release of this information to council at the awkward time that it did and that the Housing Committee tried to process these dollars into a plan before the information got exposed.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-753", "start": 4664.49, "end": 4664.603, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-754", "start": 4665.01, "end": 4674.637, "text": "—Pants on and started running, which is of course what happened when we then also started having different councilors introducing ordinances to spend this money differently.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-755", "start": 4675.786, "end": 4685.801, "text": "You know, just a quick aside, on my second week as council president, one of my staff learned that the amount that the unbudgeted dollars was potentially 5 times larger than we had learned.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-756", "start": 4686.364, "end": 4690.881, "text": "We had heard that there might be more found, but I was not truly prepared for that magnitude.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-757", "start": 4691.557, "end": 4693.756, "text": "And so So my staffer immediately called me.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-758", "start": 4693.853, "end": 4695.535, "text": "We got on the phone with the city administrator.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-759", "start": 4697.275, "end": 4699.991, "text": "Legislation on the housing dollars was already pending.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-760", "start": 4700.735, "end": 4707.555, "text": "And I decided that at that moment, even with incomplete information, I had a responsibility to let my colleagues on the city council know.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-761", "start": 4708.491, "end": 4718.459, "text": "So I called everybody personally over that weekend to say what we did know, what we didn't, and to ask everyone to please be very careful and responsible until we knew more.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-762", "start": 4719.475, "end": 4732.086, "text": "And that information immediately was leaked to the press with substantial inaccuracies and So I understand the impulse to control the narrative around these things or to wait until you have more information, until you have a plan.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-763", "start": 4732.15, "end": 4736.319, "text": "But I still think that being direct and upfront is obviously always the right way to go.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-764", "start": 4737.201, "end": 4744.176, "text": "We have to give each other the opportunity to work in good faith with each other, even if we disagree, in order for that to be possible.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-765", "start": 4744.272, "end": 4760.835, "text": "So whatever else is true to the two of you, it is obvious that there are structural problems with independent budgeting in What has your team changed in terms of what Portland Housing Bureau's budgeting practices are as a result of this process?", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-766", "start": 4761.75, "end": 4767.081, "text": "Yeah, thank you, Councilor, for the question and the observation.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-767", "start": 4768.494, "end": 4771.561, "text": "Couple of thoughts in response to that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-768", "start": 4772.172, "end": 4781.405, "text": "As we've talked in this room multiple times over the last 18 almost months, this organization is undergoing a fundamental structural change.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-769", "start": 4782.048, "end": 4787.172, "text": "And that's very, very, very messy to unwind decades of legacy practices.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-770", "start": 4787.702, "end": 4790.111, "text": "So that's the first note that I will make.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-771", "start": 4790.176, "end": 4794.432, "text": "Again, that work continues and will continue for many, many months.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-772", "start": 4794.609, "end": 4796.087, "text": "It'll continue to be messy.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-773", "start": 4796.617, "end": 4798.416, "text": "Even if we were perfect, it would be messy.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-774", "start": 4799.717, "end": 4801.323, "text": "So that's true and will remain true.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-775", "start": 4801.885, "end": 4823.957, "text": "The second observation is, yes, this has been an important moment to highlight some of those deficiencies and reinforce And so some of the things we now do are updating the budget manual, for example, to be really clear to practitioners that this is a step that needs to be taken to do this clear identification of reserves and contingencies.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-776", "start": 4824.696, "end": 4832.663, "text": "As council's experiencing right now in real time, we're trying to improve the budget communication in a way that is more transparent and clear to you and to the public.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-777", "start": 4833.129, "end": 4839.851, "text": "And we're realigning the organization to have a little clearer lines of reporting to the City Budget Office and to myself.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-778", "start": 4840.43, "end": 4846.835, "text": "Lastly, as we've said before, we do not have human capacity to catch council expectations.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-779", "start": 4847.896, "end": 4857.837, "text": "And so we will continue, I predict, to see these kind of anomalies for the long term until we get serious about investing in that administrative infrastructure at the city.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-780", "start": 4858.048, "end": 4858.276, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-781", "start": 4858.324, "end": 4859.575, "text": "Thank you very much.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-782", "start": 4862.279, "end": 4869.577, "text": "As that process is working to to right-size our system in this new form of government.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-783", "start": 4870.142, "end": 4875.866, "text": "Is there a unified budgeting process and methodology across all bureaus that we're going to be working to implement?", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-784", "start": 4877.04, "end": 4879.133, "text": "Yes, thanks for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-785", "start": 4879.649, "end": 4882.129, "text": "Yeah, I mean, it's a multi-year effort for sure.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-786", "start": 4882.95, "end": 4904.576, "text": "We've already, as Jonas mentioned, made some structural changes to collaborate much more closely with the finance managers budget folks out in each of the service areas and trying to use a sort of service area model so that information can flow more effectively to all of the analysts in the various bureaus who prepare the budgets.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-787", "start": 4906.66, "end": 4924.739, "text": "But, and, you know, working on communicating all of that again through the budget manual, through trainings, and communicate the, you know, changing expectations of this council compared to the last form of government in terms of how budget information is prepared.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-788", "start": 4925.561, "end": 4938.337, "text": "You know, I think this change around how we budget fund balances and contingencies and reserves is one example of that, but there are plenty of others that we're changing to try to meet the expectations of this body.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-789", "start": 4939.796, "end": 4945.519, "text": "And so there's very much one way to go through the budget.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-790", "start": 4946.164, "end": 4949.896, "text": "I think it's just a matter of of getting everybody up to speed.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-791", "start": 4950.04, "end": 4966.519, "text": "And as things have been changing, you know, obviously charter reform and getting everybody in the positions, it's been challenging to get everybody to have a consistency so that people know what the practices are.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-792", "start": 4966.727, "end": 4972.226, "text": "And then we can roll out trainings to ensure that every single budget analyst in the city is aware of all those practices.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-793", "start": 4972.739, "end": 4974.55, "text": "So we're on that path.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-794", "start": 4974.662, "end": 4978.125, "text": "I think it's gonna take another few years, honestly, to fully get us there.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-795", "start": 4978.349, "end": 4990.373, "text": "And the human capacity So sort of building on what you said, you know, as we are also now going through the budget process, my team has been digging into the line items on the budget.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-796", "start": 4990.47, "end": 4999.794, "text": "And, you know, I have repeatedly seen situations where we have a question for CBO staff, CBO staff says, that's a great question, let me go back to the bureaus, get an answer, and report back.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-797", "start": 5000.293, "end": 5008.074, "text": "So a lot of times it's obvious that your team does not have direct access to be able to even and see what is happening within the bureaus.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-798", "start": 5008.811, "end": 5016.314, "text": "Right now, across the city, how deep into the program level does CBO have the ability to see?", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-799", "start": 5017.388, "end": 5029.074, "text": "Yeah, I mean, we have access to all of the budget data and all of the, like, actual expenditures in SAP and the personnel in the entire city.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-800", "start": 5029.891, "end": 5036.64, "text": "Where we often have to turn to the bureaus to ask questions is, like, what does this mean for a program?", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-801", "start": 5037.602, "end": 5045.66, "text": "I think some of the things that councilors ask about often is tied to like, well, what is this program?", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-802", "start": 5045.741, "end": 5052.373, "text": "And one of the things that I've talked about in other council meetings is trying to do program offer budgeting more fully.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-803", "start": 5052.486, "end": 5055.748, "text": "And there was a resolution passed for parks with the intention to roll it out more fully.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-804", "start": 5056.343, "end": 5060.12, "text": "That is a path that I think will help to be able to describe that.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-805", "start": 5060.441, "end": 5064.707, "text": "But right now, that's not, I would say, like we don't do that practically.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-806", "start": 5064.756, "end": 5064.805, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-807", "start": 5065.73, "end": 5066.782, "text": "100% Across all bureaus.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-808", "start": 5066.83, "end": 5068.935, "text": "So I think that's one other thing that will help.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-809", "start": 5069.307, "end": 5077.739, "text": "But a lot of it comes down to either what's the intention or what are the impacts operationally, or like specifically what do you do with this exact dollar?", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-810", "start": 5077.901, "end": 5083.076, "text": "'Cause just 'cause it's in a GL account for contracting, I don't know what the contract is for.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-811", "start": 5083.157, "end": 5084.822, "text": "I can pull the contractor's name, but that's it.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-812", "start": 5085.355, "end": 5087.728, "text": "So that's where we often have to go to the bureaus.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-813", "start": 5088.325, "end": 5091.989, "text": "You know, I worked in the old form of government, I'm working in this new one.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-814", "start": 5092.36, "end": 5093.555, "text": "The old form of government didn't work.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-815", "start": 5093.64, "end": 5093.832, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-816", "start": 5093.992, "end": 5095.483, "text": "The voters were right to get rid of it.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-817", "start": 5096.14, "end": 5097.758, "text": "Obviously, we have a lot more work to do.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-818", "start": 5098.223, "end": 5103.896, "text": "And I appreciate, Jonas, what you were saying, that there is a clear direction that needs to happen.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-819", "start": 5104.393, "end": 5110.82, "text": "There is clear improvements both on policy but also personnel, that you need more staff to be able to do this, to have the capacity to do this.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-820", "start": 5111.365, "end": 5116.638, "text": "What— and as you said, the timeline is going to be years, and we will certainly have more surprises happen.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-821", "start": 5117.936, "end": 5123.785, "text": "I don't believe that this is— I'm a big believer in Hanlon's razor, never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-822", "start": 5125.506, "end": 5131.854, "text": "What can this council do to help prevent this from happening in the near future?", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-823", "start": 5133.45, "end": 5134.74, "text": "Councilor, thank you for that question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-824", "start": 5134.837, "end": 5150.133, "text": "I don't know that this is the appropriate topic to discuss that, but I think it's helpful just to have the space and respect for the staff who do the work, who show up every single day with good intent to do good transparent governance and provide information to this body.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-825", "start": 5150.764, "end": 5153.608, "text": "So if I could make one request, that would be, that would be where I would start.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-826", "start": 5153.673, "end": 5153.98, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-827", "start": 5154.885, "end": 5155.45, "text": "Thank you very much.", "speaker": "Dunphy" }, { "id": "cue-828", "start": 5157.41, "end": 5158.566, "text": "Thank you, Council President Dunphy.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-829", "start": 5158.727, "end": 5163.114, "text": "It is 10:51 AM, so we're going to take a break and then come back with Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-830", "start": 5163.226, "end": 5164.881, "text": "We'll see you back at 11:01.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-831", "start": 5166.681, "end": 5167.514, "text": "Recess for 10 minutes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-832", "start": 5850.209, "end": 5852.25, "text": "All right, thanks everybody.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-833", "start": 5852.459, "end": 5855.319, "text": "We're going to return, uh, from our recess.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-834", "start": 5856.01, "end": 5856.942, "text": "Process question.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-835", "start": 5857.199, "end": 5858.838, "text": "Yeah, absolutely.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-836", "start": 5859.369, "end": 5859.658, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-837", "start": 5859.706, "end": 5861.12, "text": "I just have a process question.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-838", "start": 5861.474, "end": 5865.667, "text": "I, I know you said this beginning, but I need to hear it again now that we're in this new experience.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-839", "start": 5866.278, "end": 5868.383, "text": "Um, so each councilor gets 10 minutes?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-840", "start": 5868.56, "end": 5876.449, "text": "Yeah, and then if there's time remaining after everyone's had their first run at it, we might have a few more minutes for People to go a second time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-841", "start": 5876.497, "end": 5878.344, "text": "And this meeting started at 9:30.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-842", "start": 5878.424, "end": 5879.114, "text": "When does it end?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-843", "start": 5879.403, "end": 5880.511, "text": "Scheduled to go till 12:30.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-844", "start": 5880.592, "end": 5881.459, "text": "We should wrap up a little—.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-845", "start": 5881.459, "end": 5882.471, "text": "This is a 3-hour hearing.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-846", "start": 5883.466, "end": 5884.622, "text": "Should wrap up a little before that though.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-847", "start": 5884.863, "end": 5888.878, "text": "All right, thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-848", "start": 5888.942, "end": 5892.619, "text": "So I'm seeing, uh, in the queue— so just, just a little context here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-849", "start": 5893.021, "end": 5902.479, "text": "Councilors, uh, Zimmerman and Pirtle-Guiney have some time left in their initial run, and Councilors Ryan, Koyama Lane, Novick, and myself, and if Clark joins, will also have not gone yet.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-850", "start": 5902.897, "end": 5906.606, "text": "So we'll make sure that that queue gets a chance to go before circling back to anyone else.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-851", "start": 5906.702, "end": 5912.081, "text": "I see Councilor Pirtle-Guiney in the queue, so please feel free to take it away.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-852", "start": 5913.269, "end": 5918.439, "text": "I see Councilor Ryan in the queue and he hasn't gone yet, so I wanna defer if he would like.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-853", "start": 5918.488, "end": 5920.334, "text": "And if he would like a few more minutes, I'm happy to go.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-854", "start": 5920.736, "end": 5920.96, "text": "Go.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-855", "start": 5921.458, "end": 5921.619, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-856", "start": 5921.699, "end": 5921.924, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-857", "start": 5922.036, "end": 5924.268, "text": "Okay, so you'll be next.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-858", "start": 5925.472, "end": 5957.42, "text": "CFO Vieri, At some point a while back in the questions that my colleagues had today, you said that it was normal to have some back and forth during the TAO process about what's in and what's not and when we make adjustments and that there are— I don't know if you used the word risks or if that's just how I heard it, but that there are some risks If we put something in when we don't have the numbers right.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-859", "start": 5957.901, "end": 5979.103, "text": "And I'm wondering if you can speak to the risks of putting something in if we don't have the numbers right, the risks of not putting something in, and just help us understand a little bit more what is behind the decision-making of when something is captured in that process, and if that happens in the fall or the spring, or if we wait until the next year.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-860", "start": 5979.151, "end": 5979.263, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-861", "start": 5980.673, "end": 5982.538, "text": "Yeah, Councilor, thank you for the question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-862", "start": 5984.56, "end": 5988.176, "text": "So, you know, every situation is often a little bit unique, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-863", "start": 5988.225, "end": 5989.549, "text": "There are some things that are very clear-cut.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-864", "start": 5989.743, "end": 5993.166, "text": "This is a $20,000 change to this specific contract.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-865", "start": 5993.246, "end": 5993.505, "text": "It's clear.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-866", "start": 5994.362, "end": 5995.752, "text": "There are things that are much more complex.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-867", "start": 5995.801, "end": 5998.081, "text": "This is an example of that that's much more complex.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-868", "start": 5998.727, "end": 6011.516, "text": "There is a risk, and one of the risks I was concerned about with not having confidence in the number is that we would suggest a solution of say $12 million of additional resource and come back and learn it was less than that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-869", "start": 6012.079, "end": 6013.109, "text": "And that's problematic.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-870", "start": 6013.688, "end": 6019.579, "text": "Now Council has overappropriated dollars that aren't available and that requires coming back to make that adjustment.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-871", "start": 6019.983, "end": 6021.941, "text": "That would be unpleasant.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-872", "start": 6024.126, "end": 6032.195, "text": "The other reality is knowing that in the fall TAO specifically, at minimum we have a spring TAO coming up.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-873", "start": 6032.276, "end": 6039.327, "text": "So we know we have another opportunity to make that kind of a correction later in the fiscal year with the benefit of having Confidence in the numbers.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-874", "start": 6039.986, "end": 6045.409, "text": "And frankly, as council is aware, there are opportunities to make budget adjustments outside of those moments.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-875", "start": 6045.892, "end": 6051.086, "text": "So this wasn't a one-shot-and-done moment in the fall TAO from the seat I sat in and sit in.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-876", "start": 6051.844, "end": 6061.939, "text": "We have flexibility to be patient and do that work and provide council with an adequate level of information to make best-informed decisions.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-877", "start": 6063.499, "end": 6063.824, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-878", "start": 6064.447, "end": 6073.204, "text": "So I think we've talked a little bit about the need for council to be informed earlier about things, and that's a conversation that I think everybody has had off the dais also.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-879", "start": 6074.008, "end": 6099.014, "text": "I don't think there's much question or controversy at this point about making sure that council gets information early, but this idea of should something have been in the TAO or not, It sounds like there are, I don't want to say regularly, but it's not unheard of for there to be things where we say, let's wait just in case.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-880", "start": 6099.175, "end": 6102.232, "text": "We'll have that other opportunity maybe in the future.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-881", "start": 6102.392, "end": 6107.171, "text": "Let's make sure council knows this is out there, but we may not want to move on it yet.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-882", "start": 6107.235, "end": 6130.644, "text": "That's kind of a, again, I don't want to say a regular question, but not an unheard of conversation to have to have as we figure out how to most responsibly and transparently make sure we know where money is at, that it's budgeted correctly, but that we don't inadvertently overspend our resources and then have to go back and find additional corrections.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-883", "start": 6131.802, "end": 6132.514, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-884", "start": 6132.903, "end": 6133.761, "text": "That's correct, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-885", "start": 6133.809, "end": 6144.808, "text": "I mean, there are micro decisions every single day made by multiple people throughout this organization about those communication options and opportunities.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-886", "start": 6145.26, "end": 6146.425, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-887", "start": 6148.723, "end": 6149.742, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-888", "start": 6149.839, "end": 6150.551, "text": "Councilor Ryan.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-889", "start": 6152.93, "end": 6164.588, "text": "Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the professional staff, um, that have been answering most of the questions and have worked many, many extra hours to get to the bottom of the financial questions that are at hand.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-890", "start": 6165.255, "end": 6171.249, "text": "Um, and a big thanks to you, CA Lee, to DCA Oliveira, and to DCA CFO.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-891", "start": 6171.489, "end": 6172.437, "text": "I don't know what your title is.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-892", "start": 6172.887, "end": 6173.32, "text": "Is it both?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-893", "start": 6174.733, "end": 6175.681, "text": "I'm sorry, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-894", "start": 6175.906, "end": 6177.528, "text": "DCA and CFO?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-895", "start": 6177.769, "end": 6178.62, "text": "Just CFO Beery.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-896", "start": 6178.957, "end": 6179.069, "text": "All right.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-897", "start": 6179.134, "end": 6179.439, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-898", "start": 6179.551, "end": 6180.386, "text": "I'll do that right then.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-899", "start": 6180.595, "end": 6194.631, "text": "CFO Beery, for your forward-facing vision to use this experience to improve the financial systems at PHB and across the bureaus and offices who may still maintain siloed cultures unique to each bureau.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-900", "start": 6194.936, "end": 6197.81, "text": "The administration and council share great interest in this Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-901", "start": 6197.81, "end": 6197.81, "text": "Thank you, Mayor.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-902", "start": 6197.81, "end": 6201.69, "text": "I want to thank the city staff for this work as we continue to go through this transition of this new form of government.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-903", "start": 6202.15, "end": 6218.11, "text": "And this transition has been focused mostly on political restructuring, and it's now time to have an urgent focus on how to transition the city's operations from 27 independent bureaus and offices to a more efficient, integrated system.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-904", "start": 6218.11, "end": 6220.51, "text": "Currently, practices wildly vary.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-905", "start": 6220.51, "end": 6222.46, "text": "I think that's what's kind of at the heart of the matter here.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-906", "start": 6222.83, "end": 6233.285, "text": "Today's conversation is a symptom I'm not sure what new information I have learned this morning with the questions I have, um, I have heard asked.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-907", "start": 6233.67, "end": 6238.141, "text": "For more than half a year, we have experienced the preliminary investigation into the housing funds.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-908", "start": 6239.134, "end": 6247.835, "text": "I greatly appreciate our city's operational leaders who have handled this process with grace and are working hard to make the improvements for greater financial accountability.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-909", "start": 6248.348, "end": 6250.72, "text": "Thank you for your transparency as information was Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-910", "start": 6251.233, "end": 6255.176, "text": "When it was clear, you presented it to us, and I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-911", "start": 6256.346, "end": 6258.526, "text": "Housing funding is especially complicated.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-912", "start": 6258.687, "end": 6263.864, "text": "Each project has many funders from multiple government sources and private sector partners.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-913", "start": 6264.057, "end": 6269.555, "text": "This accounting is more complex than in some bureaus because of the variety of revenue streams.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-914", "start": 6270.453, "end": 6277.345, "text": "For you, DCA— or for, sorry, CFO Buri, restricted revenue has different rules than general fund revenue.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-915", "start": 6278.62, "end": 6286.13, "text": "Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-916", "start": 6286.13, "end": 6294.13, "text": "So, right, as Ruth and others have mentioned, I think today, you know, a large majority of the city's dollars have some level of restriction.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-917", "start": 6294.13, "end": 6298.17, "text": "I think it's around 90% of the total budget is what's called a restricted revenue.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-918", "start": 6298.35, "end": 6305.57, "text": "And in general, that means there's a legal limitation on how those dollars are applied, how they're spent.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-919", "start": 6305.57, "end": 6309.054, "text": "So, for example, if you have a A common example is water revenues.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-920", "start": 6309.247, "end": 6310.42, "text": "We collect water revenues.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-921", "start": 6310.774, "end": 6314.599, "text": "Those can only legally be spent on water-related expenditures.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-922", "start": 6316.06, "end": 6317.552, "text": "That's a pretty clear-cut example.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-923", "start": 6318.74, "end": 6320.124, "text": "Housing dollars are a great example.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-924", "start": 6320.382, "end": 6321.944, "text": "The bond dollars came up in conversation.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-925", "start": 6322.378, "end": 6330.131, "text": "The legal documents that create that revenue stream put restrictions on how those dollars can be expended and be compliant with the law.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-926", "start": 6331.279, "end": 6333.752, "text": "So there are many different buckets of revenue.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-927", "start": 6333.849, "end": 6333.979, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-928", "start": 6334.707, "end": 6343.984, "text": "I'll say sub-buckets, types of restrictions that apply to different types of funds in the city, all of which we say are restricted.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-929", "start": 6344.89, "end": 6348.996, "text": "And that includes the practice of it being multi-year expenditures?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-930", "start": 6349.513, "end": 6354.783, "text": "Very often those restricted buckets do have multi-year programs.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-931", "start": 6354.994, "end": 6359.053, "text": "There can be examples of a restricted dollar that only has a 1-year expenditure.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-932", "start": 6359.117, "end": 6361.381, "text": "A grant, for example, might be something like that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-933", "start": 6361.818, "end": 6363.977, "text": "But many of those buckets, particularly the very large ones, are multi-year programs.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-934", "start": 6366.604, "end": 6372.083, "text": "We don't flip a switch on June 30th and say, oh, now we're gonna do something different on July 1st, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-935", "start": 6372.212, "end": 6376.264, "text": "It's often why audits and P&L statements don't always look the same.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-936", "start": 6376.716, "end": 6376.877, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-937", "start": 6376.99, "end": 6382.269, "text": "I mean, those are point-in-time assessments of what is in reality an ongoing daily operation.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-938", "start": 6382.705, "end": 6386.04, "text": "And that's very different than how we treat our operational general fund.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-939", "start": 6389.737, "end": 6401.033, "text": "It's different in that sometimes those restrictions put us We can put firmer bright lines around those, for example, over fiscal year transfers and carryovers, et cetera.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-940", "start": 6401.097, "end": 6404.451, "text": "Whereas general fund by its very nature is more discretionary.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-941", "start": 6405.285, "end": 6408.189, "text": "And also general fund, which is, I think of as operational.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-942", "start": 6408.237, "end": 6418.377, "text": "We want to expend those funds in real time, in immediacy, with more immediacy, 'cause that's what we do with general unrestricted funds.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-943", "start": 6420.276, "end": 6421.661, "text": "Yeah, Councilor, I would agree with that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-944", "start": 6421.806, "end": 6429.759, "text": "I mean, I think it's— the caveat I would make is there are many funds, even restricted funds, where we do want to deploy those dollars quickly.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-945", "start": 6431.746, "end": 6432.455, "text": "It's a balance, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-946", "start": 6432.568, "end": 6437.338, "text": "There are funds where there are very good reasons why we want to hold those and not spend them immediately, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-947", "start": 6437.387, "end": 6437.741, "text": "And so that's true.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-948", "start": 6437.806, "end": 6438.886, "text": "I wasn't dismissing it.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-949", "start": 6439.337, "end": 6455.11, "text": "I was just saying that in a pattern, it's when you're looking at financials, having that distinction between restricted And I think sometimes when we get documents, it's not always easy for us to decipher that unless we drive deeper.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-950", "start": 6455.689, "end": 6460.251, "text": "Tell me about your process and plan to clean up the financial house at the Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-951", "start": 6462.72, "end": 6464.063, "text": "Councilor, thank you for that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-952", "start": 6464.193, "end": 6468.013, "text": "I mean, I think it's largely— that effort is complete.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-953", "start": 6468.904, "end": 6471.138, "text": "This is identified, as we talked earlier in this meeting, as a priority for the city.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-954", "start": 6473.805, "end": 6487.357, "text": "This has been important to identify where some of those gaps existed, to do a comprehensive look not just at the Housing Bureau but around the city and confirm that we're aligned to be clear, consistent, and transparent going forward.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-955", "start": 6487.695, "end": 6498.165, "text": "I think council can expect to see in the future at some point some policy updates and other kinds of requests to make sure we're codifying those changes in a meaningful way.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-956", "start": 6498.24, "end": 6504, "text": "But I think largely that fundamental groundwork has already been laid.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-957", "start": 6504.564, "end": 6510.907, "text": "And so this is— is this process then helpful to the bigger picture of establishing more consistent financial patterns throughout the city?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-958", "start": 6511.407, "end": 6516.298, "text": "I think identification of the gap has been an opportunity to rectify that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-959", "start": 6517.224, "end": 6519.194, "text": "And City Administrator Lee, would you like to add anything?", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-960", "start": 6521.6, "end": 6542.067, "text": "I believe CFO O'Berry has already touched upon a main component of But I think as we look through the whole city and really changing how we do operations and how we deliver services, we have to look at best management practices as related to how do we handle some of our internal functions as a city.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-961", "start": 6542.679, "end": 6550.826, "text": "Some of the things that we'll be looking into as we continue to evolve as an organization that will help towards this is a lot of our strategy and planning work.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-962", "start": 6551.295, "end": 6554.957, "text": "And how do we build out of our organization the really strategic direction that we're heading?", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-963", "start": 6555.657, "end": 6556.9, "text": "And the expectations of that.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-964", "start": 6557.432, "end": 6571.035, "text": "Our performance and data analytics and our investment in that as an organization is going to be critical to this as well, to ensure that we're hearing— that we're hitting the performance measures that we want to hit as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-965", "start": 6572.06, "end": 6580.816, "text": "These are all critical things that are working in conjunction with each other to produce a better way of doing government and governing a city.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-966", "start": 6581.25, "end": 6582.651, "text": "And I'm I'm committed to it.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-967", "start": 6582.78, "end": 6584.193, "text": "I know our team is committed to it.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-968", "start": 6584.322, "end": 6591.26, "text": "I know the mayor and this council is committed to better governance and operations and providing that to the city as a whole.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-969", "start": 6592.015, "end": 6607.915, "text": "I know as we continue to look at staffing and as we come through some of the tough budget decisions that have to be made this year, we have to keep at the forefront of our minds and be intentional about how do we build this government back forward.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-970", "start": 6611.39, "end": 6614.225, "text": "Thank you, Saleh.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-971", "start": 6624.62, "end": 6630.48, "text": "Chair, I want to say this as advice to this committee of a whole with a financial lens.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-972", "start": 6630.48, "end": 6642.169, "text": "I hope that we take this conversation and that we look for updates on how the transition from unearthing those siloed practices and getting to some more common best practices.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-973", "start": 6642.696, "end": 6654.313, "text": "This is the continuous improvement work that Portlanders are demanding from us, and I hope we use this as a case study, not a shame study, to, um, continue to learn from how we can improve and go forward.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-974", "start": 6655.059, "end": 6655.383, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-975", "start": 6657.183, "end": 6658.366, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Ryan.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-976", "start": 6660.772, "end": 6664.65, "text": "So, uh, there's no one in the queue right now who hasn't already gone.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-977", "start": 6665.083, "end": 6671.493, "text": "I'm going to probably do, uh, 5-minute increments going forward, and, and we'll just see how long we've, we've got available for it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-978", "start": 6671.589, "end": 6674.201, "text": "And, uh, I'm just noting I am going to hop in the queue later on.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-979", "start": 6674.778, "end": 6679.089, "text": "Um, but I see Councilor Morillo in the queue, so we'll go to you and then Councilor Green for a second round.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-980", "start": 6679.826, "end": 6689.064, "text": "Yeah, I know that Councilor Avalos has to leave at 11:30, so I would prefer if she could go first and then me and then order Is that okay with you, Councilor Green, as well?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-981", "start": 6689.481, "end": 6692.067, "text": "All right, Councilor Avalos, you're recognized, and then we'll go to Morillo and then Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-982", "start": 6693.159, "end": 6694.524, "text": "All right, thank you all.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-983", "start": 6695.423, "end": 6698.748, "text": "So I have a follow-up question for Director Levine.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-984", "start": 6699.663, "end": 6715.385, "text": "I want to— while she's coming up there, I want to appreciate the line of questioning from Council President because I think, you know, I agree that like there's just kind of some remnants here that we're working through and that not everything needs to be seen as malicious.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-985", "start": 6715.802, "end": 6728.88, "text": "But I think the goal of this hearing is to really understand what we need to fix and change, because that is our, our job as the first government in the new form of government, and we need to be deeply committed to that change.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-986", "start": 6729.345, "end": 6736.749, "text": "So I want to talk about kind of the reporting structure that you're working within in the city budget office.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-987", "start": 6736.798, "end": 6741.718, "text": "So specifically, Director Levine, who are you accountable to in your role?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-988", "start": 6742.231, "end": 6747.806, "text": "And within that structure, what is the expectation for or how information is communicated to council?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-989", "start": 6750.06, "end": 6755.877, "text": "Sure, I can give an answer and then I'll look to the city administrator if he wants to weigh in as well.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-990", "start": 6756.022, "end": 6763.177, "text": "But I'm accountable to all of you and to the mayor.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-991", "start": 6765.376, "end": 6767.056, "text": "I guess it was a bit of a history lesson.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-992", "start": 6767.395, "end": 6777.443, "text": "The City Budget Office for over 10 years was an independent office Office, and the director reported to all 5 commissioners and the mayor.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-993", "start": 6777.589, "end": 6797.926, "text": "And with the change in the form of government, we are now rolled into the sort of administrative structure, currently in City Operations Service Area, but obviously have worked closely and was in the Budget and Finance Service Area.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-994", "start": 6798.088, "end": 6803.082, "text": "So Sort of administratively, that is where we sit.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-995", "start": 6803.597, "end": 6809.931, "text": "But I very much see the City Budget Office as retaining a neutral and independent lens.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-996", "start": 6811.081, "end": 6822.961, "text": "And, you know, our job is to provide high-quality budget information analysis and obviously to have a technically accurate, legally compliant budget for the City of Portland.", "speaker": "Ruth Levine" }, { "id": "cue-997", "start": 6824.939, "end": 6829.139, "text": "So then, given that— thank you for that history lesson, that is important to understand.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-998", "start": 6829.315, "end": 6873.834, "text": "Um, given that though, if CBO makes a recommendation that council should take a certain action and that information doesn't come to us because it has apparently gone through a couple of layers of a CFO, a DCA, a mayor, um, can you help me understand then If your independence is what is standard practice, then how are you going to make sure that we are getting the independent information from the budget office as the budget authority instead of it being delayed by many layers of other positions that should not, per your reading, be in front of council having awareness first?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-999", "start": 6874.974, "end": 6877.269, "text": "Councilor Avalos, I would like to step in and answer that question.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1000", "start": 6877.927, "end": 6889.938, "text": "And in respect to the structure of government that we have, honestly, that's my role, to ensure that this council has the information it needs to make the decisions that it needs to make moving forward.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1001", "start": 6890.29, "end": 6895.454, "text": "The budget operations of our arm is under that administrative arm of our organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1002", "start": 6896.063, "end": 6902.189, "text": "And with that being said, my responsibility is to ensure that that communication is happening.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1003", "start": 6902.782, "end": 6929.462, "text": "If she's making, you know, if any, So when a city person within this organization is making a recommendation from the administrative arm of it, it's for me to decipher that information and make an ultimate recommendation to City Council from the administration arm of the organization, what our recommendation is or what we may feel as opportunities to change the information that we may have.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1004", "start": 6930.039, "end": 6932.829, "text": "And to just to clarify that, I just want to say that piece.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1005", "start": 6935.624, "end": 6935.881, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1006", "start": 6936.251, "end": 6952.152, "text": "Um, I appreciate that nuance, and I think, you know, I think just to round out that question and to get final clarity, council does not receive information directly from CBO without going through additional layers first, including your office.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1007", "start": 6952.361, "end": 6952.876, "text": "Is that correct?", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1008", "start": 6953.632, "end": 6954.388, "text": "That is correct.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1009", "start": 6955.417, "end": 6969.902, "text": "Okay, well, I think that is something we should look into as far as Um, what it looks like to ensure that channel is not disrupted by other offices, including the mayor's office.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1010", "start": 6970.081, "end": 6971.473, "text": "I know I'm going to run out of time here.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1011", "start": 6972.088, "end": 6974.485, "text": "I have another kind of line of questioning on that.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1012", "start": 6975.003, "end": 6977.448, "text": "Um, but for now, I'll, I'll leave it there.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1013", "start": 6977.61, "end": 6977.917, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1014", "start": 6979.53, "end": 6980.627, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Avalos.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1015", "start": 6980.676, "end": 6982.337, "text": "We'll go to Councilor Murillo and then Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1016", "start": 6983.902, "end": 6984.499, "text": "Thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1017", "start": 6988.07, "end": 6991.575, "text": "I was hoping we could have DCA Oliveira come back up.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1018", "start": 6998.18, "end": 7005.435, "text": "I was wondering, who was the party that overruled CBO's recommendation that the RSO funds be included in the TAO?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1019", "start": 7008.099, "end": 7010.684, "text": "That was CFO Berry's call, from my seat.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1020", "start": 7010.862, "end": 7011.767, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1021", "start": 7012.543, "end": 7015.694, "text": "And what was the basis for that overruling of the city's expert budget body?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1022", "start": 7016.653, "end": 7018.387, "text": "Perhaps it's a question for Beery.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1023", "start": 7019.222, "end": 7020.218, "text": "I would defer to him for that.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1024", "start": 7020.78, "end": 7021.518, "text": "Please stay up here.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1025", "start": 7022.835, "end": 7024.119, "text": "Yeah, thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1026", "start": 7024.44, "end": 7027.62, "text": "So it was ultimately my call.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1027", "start": 7027.732, "end": 7039.534, "text": "I also wanna acknowledge that during that window at which this decision was made, City Administrator Mike Jordan was out of office and had delegated to me authority to act as City Administrator.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1028", "start": 7040.882, "end": 7041.3, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1029", "start": 7042.984, "end": 7046.352, "text": "I have a question for Donny following up on that.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1030", "start": 7046.833, "end": 7052.493, "text": "You previously indicated that you gave the mayor and city administrator a heads up on these funds in early September.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1031", "start": 7052.991, "end": 7062.756, "text": "You then proceeded to produce multiple policy proposals for the use of those funds in multiple memos and engagements with the Portland Housing Bureau, the mayor, and Portland Solutions.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1032", "start": 7064.216, "end": 7076.689, "text": "If we grant that inclusion of these funds in the TAO required additional financial vetting, Is there any reason we couldn't have received the same heads up as council that the mayor and the city administrator did in the funds in early September?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1033", "start": 7077.39, "end": 7081.423, "text": "Because you gave that heads up with a caveat that the information was not fully vetted, correct?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1034", "start": 7081.939, "end": 7082.262, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1035", "start": 7083.053, "end": 7093.157, "text": "And because there would be value in being aware of the funds broadly while discussing the TAO, even if we didn't have absolute certainty of the precise figure and it couldn't be formally submitted to the TAO, right?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1036", "start": 7093.383, "end": 7093.625, "text": "Correct.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1037", "start": 7094.859, "end": 7102.809, "text": "The charter requires that regular notification of the financial status of the city go to council, not a fully vetted proposal.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1038", "start": 7103.52, "end": 7114.522, "text": "So to be clear, this number was precise enough for you, the Portland Housing Bureau, the administration, and Portland Solutions to make proposed spend plans, correct?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1039", "start": 7116.694, "end": 7119.879, "text": "We were working through the information at that time, and that was part of the process, correct.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1040", "start": 7120.504, "end": 7130.213, "text": "And it was precise enough to negotiate the allocation for 4 months, precise enough to build a replacement proposal in 72 hours after the records were slated to be released?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1041", "start": 7132.608, "end": 7137.056, "text": "The, the councilor, the last, the last iteration I wasn't privy to.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1042", "start": 7137.153, "end": 7137.916, "text": "It was shared with me.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1043", "start": 7138.75, "end": 7144.538, "text": "Um, so I, I just want to be clear that the time frame I think you were talking about earlier was that September-October window.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1044", "start": 7145.333, "end": 7153.998, "text": "Um, in that last iteration Okay.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1045", "start": 7154.384, "end": 7164.96, "text": "I guess with all the information we're receiving today, I am a little bit surprised that we are needing to wait to vet the financials to avoid giving council inaccurate information as we have the power of the purse.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1046", "start": 7165.54, "end": 7180.847, "text": "Because aside from the fact that this wasn't a concern in sharing the RSO information with the mayor and city administrator in September, The fall— Not having this information has guaranteed that council was operating with incorrect information when we were deliberating the TAO.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1047", "start": 7181.873, "end": 7194.438, "text": "We were deliberating the TAO on a false premise, and the existence of a next budget vehicle doesn't explain why the fall vehicle was used to present a deficit picture while it was clear enough for the administrator's planning that that deficit did not exist.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1048", "start": 7195.128, "end": 7200.865, "text": "So generally, I think maybe this is a question moving forward for my councilors, for the city administrator, and for the city staff.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1049", "start": 7203.355, "end": 7205.298, "text": "Is this a precedent that we want to accept?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1050", "start": 7205.62, "end": 7211.29, "text": "That every bureau for every future unbudgeted balance has 4 to 6 months disclosure grace period?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1051", "start": 7211.723, "end": 7220.124, "text": "That we can sit on material facts, only for City Council, by the way, for one budget cycle so that as long— so long as they potentially surface in the next one?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1052", "start": 7221.344, "end": 7224.107, "text": "And City Administrator, I guess that's honestly a question for you.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1053", "start": 7224.332, "end": 7226.725, "text": "Is that a precedent that we should expect moving forward?", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1054", "start": 7229.602, "end": 7231.63, "text": "That's not what you've received from me to this date.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1055", "start": 7233.03, "end": 7233.531, "text": "Thank you, sir.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1056", "start": 7234.598, "end": 7254.746, "text": "And I know that some of these issues preceded your arrival, but I think that there, there is a disconnect here between what council has received as the budget authority and what all of these agencies are receiving and how they are deliberating and making budget and policy decisions without the representation of each district.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1057", "start": 7255.1, "end": 7255.873, "text": "That's what's happening.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1058", "start": 7256.791, "end": 7258.112, "text": "So I want to be very clear about that.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1059", "start": 7259.08, "end": 7262.397, "text": "I don't have— let me check to see if I have any further questions at this time.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1060", "start": 7264.616, "end": 7265.731, "text": "I think that ends my questioning.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1061", "start": 7265.844, "end": 7266.215, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Diana" }, { "id": "cue-1062", "start": 7266.474, "end": 7268.59, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Morillo.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1063", "start": 7268.654, "end": 7270.899, "text": "We'll go to Councilor Green, then Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1064", "start": 7272.127, "end": 7272.32, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1065", "start": 7272.385, "end": 7273.811, "text": "I just have a few more follow-up questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1066", "start": 7274.494, "end": 7275.486, "text": "Thanks for both being up there.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1067", "start": 7275.551, "end": 7276.446, "text": "I have questions for each of you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1068", "start": 7278.38, "end": 7300.673, "text": "To DCA Oliveira, Earlier in this hearing, when I was asking you about the process from the October 27th memo to whether or not it got into TAO, you suggested that the former director was on leave and you didn't have a chance to talk to her about the nature of that spending plan, and then it didn't make it into the deadline for the TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1069", "start": 7301.872, "end": 7302.812, "text": "That's what you said earlier, right?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1070", "start": 7303.427, "end": 7305.987, "text": "I was referring to the September 5th deadline.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1071", "start": 7306.182, "end": 7306.846, "text": "That was the first deadline.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1072", "start": 7308.92, "end": 7311.103, "text": "Because I believe she was on vacation.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1073", "start": 7311.783, "end": 7312.365, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1074", "start": 7312.413, "end": 7321.304, "text": "That's— so in my understanding, it's standard practice to, when a bureau director goes out on vacation, to sort of delegate to their deputy.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1075", "start": 7321.726, "end": 7322.521, "text": "Hey, I'm on vacation.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1076", "start": 7322.619, "end": 7323.657, "text": "In my absence, you're acting.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1077", "start": 7324.972, "end": 7329.649, "text": "Isn't it true you could have conferred with the deputy bureau director about that spending plan and move that work forward?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1078", "start": 7330.359, "end": 7331.182, "text": "That was an option, yes.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1079", "start": 7331.73, "end": 7332.294, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1080", "start": 7333.67, "end": 7336.395, "text": "For CFO Biery, I've got a couple questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1081", "start": 7336.443, "end": 7340.303, "text": "I want to go back to the TAO because we've talked a lot about uncertainty and confidence in numbers.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1082", "start": 7342.288, "end": 7365.379, "text": "During the work session of, I think it was October 22nd, we really dug into the assumptions in that, and a number of us, I think myself in particular, raised questions about one of the kind of resources that was going to be identified to make us whole in the spring should we find ourselves short because we were using spring resources in the form of compensation set-aside.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1083", "start": 7365.427, "end": 7370.766, "text": "So isn't it true that confidence was low in the TAO due to the efficiency savings?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1084", "start": 7371.395, "end": 7380.301, "text": "Because that was a speculative sort of resource that we don't really have any history on it, and it's not an actual line item in a budget.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1085", "start": 7380.35, "end": 7381.899, "text": "It's just something that we hope to materialize.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1086", "start": 7382.287, "end": 7384.628, "text": "Wouldn't you characterize that as a low-confidence resource?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1087", "start": 7385.435, "end": 7386.516, "text": "That's fair, Councilor.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1088", "start": 7386.871, "end": 7388.405, "text": "I would consider that effort as a low-confidence resource.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1089", "start": 7388.53, "end": 7389.581, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1090", "start": 7391.232, "end": 7403.689, "text": "And just stepping back more generally, isn't it also true that confidence is always low or medium-low when it comes to BLT forecasting 'cause it is a volatile revenue stream?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1091", "start": 7404.157, "end": 7412.047, "text": "Councilor, I want to be really cautious 'cause I think we're making some causal assumptions here that are not apples to apples.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1092", "start": 7413.126, "end": 7416.946, "text": "You are correct that that is, An assumption.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1093", "start": 7417.556, "end": 7421.42, "text": "And there are many, many assumptions we make, some with confidence, some with lower confidence.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1094", "start": 7421.5, "end": 7428.957, "text": "I'm asking the questions because earlier it was suggested that we don't want to make assumptions in our budgeting using uncertain sources.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1095", "start": 7429.486, "end": 7432.726, "text": "And I'm trying to establish here that we already do that in practice.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1096", "start": 7432.854, "end": 7434.249, "text": "Yeah, Councilor, you're correct.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1097", "start": 7434.313, "end": 7446.629, "text": "And I will say it is very easy to look at a prepared document 6 months in hindsight and feel Like there should have been confidence in a number at any given time.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1098", "start": 7446.982, "end": 7453.829, "text": "That was not the reality in the moment in October, in early November when this information was becoming aware.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1099", "start": 7454.358, "end": 7467.652, "text": "From the seat I sit in, as soon as I had a reasonable level of confidence greater than zero, which is the number that I had in that October window, that information was promoted to be shared with council.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1100", "start": 7467.973, "end": 7469.095, "text": "That is different from— I'm not saying that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1101", "start": 7470.299, "end": 7479.704, "text": "Realignment conversation that you're referencing, different from a BLT assumption conversation where there is some level of confidence, even if it's not 100%.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1102", "start": 7479.961, "end": 7495.063, "text": "I understand that, but during that discussion and that debate, one of the major points of contention was that we were paying for our policy encumbrance carryovers that were driving a $60 million deficit with compensation set aside.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1103", "start": 7495.32, "end": 7499.39, "text": "And the solution was, well, we're going to realize efficiency savings.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1104", "start": 7499.64, "end": 7509.58, "text": "And meanwhile, in an October 13th memo from the Portland Housing Bureau director, we see a very precise number that is $2.75 million that could be returned to the general fund.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1105", "start": 7509.72, "end": 7521.64, "text": "And so I don't know how you get to a precise number like that if there's not some level of confidence in the $12 million, because we've been talking about we don't know if it's $12 million, we don't know if it's $21 million, but we, but we, we knew it was $12 million all along.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1106", "start": 7521.64, "end": 7522.798, "text": "I think the general fund is And so that's—.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1107", "start": 7522.814, "end": 7525.509, "text": "And that general fund return was never brought into that discussion.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1108", "start": 7525.782, "end": 7532.487, "text": "Councilor, I think again, I've heard DC Oliveira, I think accurately say that there was confidence maybe in the Housing Bureau and from his seat.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1109", "start": 7532.904, "end": 7539.93, "text": "From the seat that I sat in at that moment, my confidence level was zero in the accuracy of that number and existence of that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1110", "start": 7540.556, "end": 7540.86, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1111", "start": 7541.887, "end": 7553.07, "text": "And my last question here is, you know, at that time after the TAO was presented, several councilors were working with the CBO I was one of them.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1112", "start": 7553.07, "end": 7554.15, "text": "Councilor Morillo was one of them.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1113", "start": 7554.15, "end": 7555.44, "text": "And Councilor Smith was one of them.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1114", "start": 7555.77, "end": 7563.77, "text": "Each of these amendments were seeking to provide things like rental assistance and, you know, HIF nexus funds.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1115", "start": 7564.85, "end": 7570.99, "text": "I'm curious why these offices were not informed that there may be resources available from these funds, however uncertain they are.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1116", "start": 7570.99, "end": 7573.32, "text": "Maybe perhaps we'll know more later in the year by spring.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1117", "start": 7574.51, "end": 7576.73, "text": "Would caution you to hold off on this amendment until then.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1118", "start": 7576.73, "end": 7578.15, "text": "I'm curious why they were not told about that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1119", "start": 7578.136, "end": 7578.27, "text": "This I think that's a fair point.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1120", "start": 7578.328, "end": 7580.318, "text": "If the CBO understood that these funds could be—.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1121", "start": 7580.462, "end": 7585.772, "text": "I would just answer, Councilor, as I just did, that my confidence level in the existence of those dollars at that moment were zero.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1122", "start": 7586.238, "end": 7587.104, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1123", "start": 7587.152, "end": 7588.035, "text": "I have no further questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1124", "start": 7588.965, "end": 7590.152, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Green.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1125", "start": 7590.409, "end": 7597.372, "text": "Um, I know I said Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, but because Councilor Koyama Lane hasn't gone yet, I'm going to go to you first and then over to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1126", "start": 7598.527, "end": 7600.003, "text": "Okay, thank you, Chair.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1127", "start": 7600.918, "end": 7607.319, "text": "To understand the timeline and flow of information a little bit more, I have a question for Mr. Bonacore.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1128", "start": 7608.194, "end": 7611.49, "text": "Our current interim director of Portland Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1129", "start": 7612.863, "end": 7631.934, "text": "I want to start with your November 17th email to DCA Oliveira, where you are saying in that message there's an additional $9 million in accumulated SRO revenue held in reserve that, um, that you were not advised— of which you were not advised to.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1130", "start": 7632.161, "end": 7632.825, "text": "You didn't know about it.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1131", "start": 7633.51, "end": 7636.237, "text": "Um, when did you first become aware of the reserve fund?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1132", "start": 7636.351, "end": 7643.245, "text": "And then also, what prompted you to Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1133", "start": 7643.39, "end": 7646.695, "text": "Councilors, Michael Bonaccor, Interim Director for the Portland Housing Bureau.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1134", "start": 7648.836, "end": 7664.695, "text": "As I recall, a lot happened all on that day, and I had been asked to sort of look at the recommendations that had been made for, I think, 11.3.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1135", "start": 7664.79, "end": 7665.595, "text": "$7 Million.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1136", "start": 7666.979, "end": 7677.273, "text": "And since I was in the seat as interim bureau director to sort of revisit recommendations with the team and put forward if there were any changes that I would recommend.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1137", "start": 7677.773, "end": 7685.669, "text": "So as I was having that conversation, the number $21 million came up for the first time that I had heard it.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1138", "start": 7688.386, "end": 7697.04, "text": "And that was really surprising to me because I had, you know, in, in no conversations with anyone had I heard the number $21 million.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1139", "start": 7697.41, "end": 7702.279, "text": "So I clarified with the team that number.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1140", "start": 7702.652, "end": 7706.762, "text": "I then called DCA Oliveira, disclosed it to him.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1141", "start": 7707.506, "end": 7721.653, "text": "He asked me to send the email that I had sent with, uh, that you're referencing with the rec— the recommendations that we had been working on for the $11.7 And to name that I had learned about an additional $9 million.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1142", "start": 7723.398, "end": 7725.467, "text": "And those recommendations, you were working on them?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1143", "start": 7727.07, "end": 7727.313, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1144", "start": 7727.507, "end": 7733.054, "text": "And were there also recommendations that you know about that former Director Hissrich had given also for these funds?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1145", "start": 7733.151, "end": 7733.216, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1146", "start": 7733.669, "end": 7733.814, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1147", "start": 7734.445, "end": 7738.034, "text": "And were those separate suggestions or those were—.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1148", "start": 7738.485, "end": 7739.241, "text": "Yes, they were.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1149", "start": 7740.336, "end": 7745.797, "text": "Director Hissrich Director Hisarick's recommendations largely informed mine.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1150", "start": 7745.989, "end": 7756.559, "text": "Everything that we were considering in the bureau at that time was really very much in the lane of what the— of the kinds of spending that RSO would do.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1151", "start": 7756.671, "end": 7759.53, "text": "We were not thinking really more expansively than that.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1152", "start": 7759.739, "end": 7762.791, "text": "Do you know when Director Hisarick gave those recommendations?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1153", "start": 7763.658, "end": 7769.611, "text": "Oh, I know the memo is dated Yeah, I don't remember the date off the top of my head.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1154", "start": 7770.8, "end": 7777.974, "text": "And when you shared this email with Mr. Oliveira, what led you to think that he had not already been made aware of these funds?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1155", "start": 7780.515, "end": 7792.154, "text": "We had had a number of conversations in which, you know, as I said, I was working on a set of recommendations based on the approximately $12 million number.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1156", "start": 7792.867, "end": 7796.739, "text": "That number is the only number I had ever heard him say.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1157", "start": 7796.819, "end": 7800.113, "text": "And so it was alarming to me that there was a different number that I hadn't heard him say.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1158", "start": 7800.756, "end": 7801.495, "text": "Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1159", "start": 7802.17, "end": 7829.306, "text": "And for Mr. Beery and Mr. Oliveira, my questions for you two are, as we— give you a moment— as we're looking forward to accountability and continuous improvement, can you share concretely your key takeaways from this whole situation, what specific changes you're implementing to ensure that issues like this are not repeated.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1160", "start": 7831.61, "end": 7832.746, "text": "Thank you for the question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1161", "start": 7833.19, "end": 7842.775, "text": "For my part, certainly being a little bit more intentional with questions for my teams in the service area about budgets.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1162", "start": 7843.486, "end": 7845.422, "text": "I think I shared this in an executive session at the time.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1163", "start": 7846.453, "end": 7852.272, "text": "During the budget process of last year, I was working with 2 interim directors at PP&D and Prosper.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1164", "start": 7852.32, "end": 7854.02, "text": "So my priority largely focused on them.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1165", "start": 7854.132, "end": 7860.239, "text": "I was relying on my more senior directors at the time at BPS and Housing to take care of their business.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1166", "start": 7861.041, "end": 7862.163, "text": "They had the experience.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1167", "start": 7863.045, "end": 7866.267, "text": "There's also more challenges at Prosper and PP&D in the budget process, as you're all aware.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1168", "start": 7867.148, "end": 7872.519, "text": "So I think for my part, it's one is just being a little bit more intentional there, asking questions more thoroughly, Thank you.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1169", "start": 7872.583, "end": 7874.363, "text": "And not making assumptions about oversight.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1170", "start": 7875.453, "end": 7886.868, "text": "And then as we've talked about already and I've shared, definitely appreciate your seat and the expectation for getting communications about budget-related issues, even if it's not exact or finite.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1171", "start": 7886.916, "end": 7899.935, "text": "I'll defer to CFO Berry about the appropriate level of accuracy, but at least acknowledging that there's some discrepancy in a bureau's funding or finances and working with the CFO and CBO on that.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1172", "start": 7900.08, "end": 7903.363, "text": "And of course, CA Lead, Um, is a key takeaway for me.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1173", "start": 7903.657, "end": 7907.665, "text": "And, uh, I think that's just from my seat.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1174", "start": 7908.887, "end": 7918.584, "text": "Um, I over— um, let's see, I, I overemphasized ensuring that you were getting accurate information versus urgent information.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1175", "start": 7918.859, "end": 7927.137, "text": "And there was— there's probably a pendulum swing back to balance that out to ensure that you're getting information even if there are confidence in it's, it's lower.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1176", "start": 7927.238, "end": 7933.375, "text": "Again, And mine was a little higher than CFO Beery's was, but for my part, I can at least communicate that out.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1177", "start": 7933.776, "end": 7945.675, "text": "And then lastly, and this goes just to general work I think the city's doing led by Caley and CFO Beery and the CBO office, Director Levine's leadership, is how we're telling the— how we're communicating about our budget.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1178", "start": 7945.723, "end": 7947.615, "text": "Our city's very complex with various funds.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1179", "start": 7948.048, "end": 7948.962, "text": "Not all of them are the same.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1180", "start": 7949.651, "end": 7967.27, "text": "And I think internally as subject matter experts, or if you will, We speak in technological terms or technocratic terms, and we need to ensure that we're communicating very clearly so people understand the distinction between unbudgeted versus appropriated versus unappropriated.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1181", "start": 7967.319, "end": 7970.675, "text": "Those things are meaningful matter in terms, so we're not conflating issues.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1182", "start": 7971.256, "end": 7972.821, "text": "And that's just something that we can work on and get better at.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1183", "start": 7972.886, "end": 7978.282, "text": "So those would be the 3 big takeaways that I've certainly experienced through this process.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1184", "start": 7978.476, "end": 7986.805, "text": "Appreciate this body's You know, intention on oversight and trying to get the answers for the public, 'cause I think there's a lot of lessons that we learned along the way.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1185", "start": 7989.08, "end": 7990.454, "text": "Yeah, thank you, Councilor, for the question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1186", "start": 7990.503, "end": 7992.637, "text": "Agree with everything DCA Oliveira said.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1187", "start": 7993.268, "end": 8000.189, "text": "Would add, you know, sometimes I like to be right, sometimes I don't like to be right.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1188", "start": 8000.61, "end": 8006.173, "text": "And I flagged long ago that we were going to experience deficiencies that would lead to these gaps.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1189", "start": 8006.351, "end": 8009.692, "text": "We've seen that in the material findings we found in the ACFR.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1190", "start": 8010.654, "end": 8026.282, "text": "We've found that we have gaps in our ability to communicate between the budget office and accounting office and have the infrastructure to manage that in a way that avoids these complications and creates a pathway to have that clear, transparent communication to council and the public.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1191", "start": 8026.843, "end": 8032.982, "text": "So just one takeaway is that we do need to get serious about solving that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1192", "start": 8033.239, "end": 8036.829, "text": "And it's not something I can do from— as one human being.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1193", "start": 8037.407, "end": 8038.161, "text": "Who sits in this seat.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1194", "start": 8038.225, "end": 8041.61, "text": "It's a systematic improvement that frankly has to start in this room.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1195", "start": 8042.861, "end": 8043.743, "text": "And so that's a takeaway.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1196", "start": 8043.839, "end": 8049.181, "text": "Let's— I appreciate the sort of shared accountability and shared knowledge around this exercise.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1197", "start": 8049.294, "end": 8066.393, "text": "I think it has been very, very valuable in daylighting some very specific gaps, and we're working as hard as we can to correct those through policy, through practice, through communication, and continuing to grind every day to get that transparent information to you until Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1198", "start": 8067.003, "end": 8078.132, "text": "City Administrator Lee, do you have any specific concrete changes that you're implementing or you plan to implement to make sure that issues like this aren't repeated?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1199", "start": 8078.902, "end": 8081.42, "text": "Some of it is some of the things they've already mentioned.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1200", "start": 8081.468, "end": 8094.185, "text": "Some of it is organizational structure and how we're structured as an organization as it relates to the budget and the finance arm being really tied together as we move forward as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1201", "start": 8094.842, "end": 8114.208, "text": "And then as we look at building out a comprehensive plan of really addressing some of the challenges we're facing in the interim of changing our form of government, 'cause we did it on paper, but the actions of the work that has to be done is still a work in progress.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1202", "start": 8114.785, "end": 8125.048, "text": "And one of the things that I've seen as coming into this role as it relates to this kind of change of government, we have struggled from a change management standpoint.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1203", "start": 8125.529, "end": 8134.096, "text": "Change management has been critical in this change of form of government that we've had, that we have struggled through as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1204", "start": 8134.69, "end": 8146.209, "text": "And we have to be intentional about how we manage change management as an organization because this is a tremendous amount of transformation that is taking place in this organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1205", "start": 8146.884, "end": 8151.412, "text": "We can't lose track of the people in our organization that this is impacting as well.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1206", "start": 8152.086, "end": 8160.5, "text": "They are going through this same transformation, having the same struggles that this body is seeing as well as it relates to the change of government that we're having.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1207", "start": 8160.949, "end": 8175.736, "text": "So as we look at our organizational structure, as we put more funds towards how do we do change management and not let it be a second fiddle to the conversation that we're having as it relates to How do we change the way that we do business as an organization?", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1208", "start": 8176.186, "end": 8181.483, "text": "I think that has to be at the forefront of the conversation that we're having as we move forward.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1209", "start": 8181.805, "end": 8190.361, "text": "And we have to be intentional about the resources we dedicate to change management and also the resources that we need from our financial arm as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1210", "start": 8191.276, "end": 8208.307, "text": "Because as we look at core functions and services as an organization, finance and budget is one of those key things That we have to make sure that we're investing in appropriately and looking at how we do budget moving forward as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1211", "start": 8208.661, "end": 8210.335, "text": "It's also going to be as critical.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1212", "start": 8210.85, "end": 8225.362, "text": "So as we look at me building out kind of a roadmap through this transition, that's one of the key things that I will be focusing in on is these kind of change management things as we roll out an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1213", "start": 8225.458, "end": 8226.937, "text": "And I want to be transparent with council.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1214", "start": 8227.656, "end": 8229.884, "text": "Of where we are in that process.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1215", "start": 8230.381, "end": 8243.184, "text": "So my first, I would say, 90 days has just been watching and evaluating, making minor changes in there if things were critical, but just seeing how we do business as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1216", "start": 8243.761, "end": 8253.039, "text": "And as we move forward, it's really gonna be looking at how do we improve our operations overall and do we have the right pieces to improve?", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1217", "start": 8253.572, "end": 8255.864, "text": "Our operation overall as an organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1218", "start": 8256.3, "end": 8276.388, "text": "And I wanna make sure that we're doing those things in an intentional fashion, but also in a transparent fashion that the community understands the progress that we're making as an organization, but understands the timing and the timeline and timeframe of those type of changes and what those expectations should be for this organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1219", "start": 8278.922, "end": 8279.771, "text": "Thank you for that.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1220", "start": 8279.867, "end": 8283.12, "text": "And it's helpful to hear kind of high level your vision there.", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1221", "start": 8283.97, "end": 8290.636, "text": "Are you able to give an in-the-weeds— I know we're not going to go into it, but an in-the-weeds example of a change that you have made?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1222", "start": 8290.764, "end": 8297.222, "text": "For example, a certain process now works this way, or there's a deadline, just to see an example of what that looks like in practice?", "speaker": "Tiffany Koyama Lane" }, { "id": "cue-1223", "start": 8297.575, "end": 8304.593, "text": "I think you've seen it just in the communication that you're seeing and the consistency of that communication that you're seeing from the city as a whole.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1224", "start": 8305.187, "end": 8312.878, "text": "As it relates to the information that you're getting through this budgeting process, the uniformity of those information that you're seeing.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1225", "start": 8313.537, "end": 8315.158, "text": "I think that's one of the key things.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1226", "start": 8315.223, "end": 8321.292, "text": "I think that we have seen some sort of breakdown between the council and administration.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1227", "start": 8321.677, "end": 8331.983, "text": "It's just those lines of communication and making sure that that communication is happening in a fashion that— and being received in a fashion that you're getting the information You need to make decisions.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1228", "start": 8332.335, "end": 8338.077, "text": "And I could go into more details about it, and I know we'll have some more conversations about this as we move around.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1229", "start": 8338.429, "end": 8345.39, "text": "But the biggest thing that I, I've been trying to emphasize is just the communication piece of how we're communicating with council.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1230", "start": 8345.726, "end": 8366.274, "text": "Me actually dedicating the time and the agenda to actually sit down with each one of the councilors to kind of go through the top priorities that you're— and challenges you are facing, but also talk about the top challenges and things that we're looking at from an administration arm of the organization and making sure that you're well informed and well engaged in those conversations.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1231", "start": 8369.64, "end": 8370.781, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Koyama Lane.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1232", "start": 8370.96, "end": 8373.307, "text": "We'll go to Councilor Pirtle-Guiney, then Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1233", "start": 8375.314, "end": 8387.434, "text": "Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Councilor Koyama Lane, because that was one of the 2 questions I had written down to ask right now, and I think it's a really critical question for us to be asking today.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1234", "start": 8389.73, "end": 8404.988, "text": "Oversight is a lot of things, but among them, and I think one of the most important for a body like this, is figuring out how to make things work better, not just for us but for Portlanders.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1235", "start": 8405.73, "end": 8410.107, "text": "And that question around the very specific Hey, what's going to change?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1236", "start": 8411.041, "end": 8416.856, "text": "Um, is, I hope, the core of what we're getting at.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1237", "start": 8417.421, "end": 8424.853, "text": "Um, and I think there's a lot of other ways we could have done that, but here we are today, so we're doing it this way.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1238", "start": 8425.56, "end": 8439.204, "text": "Um, I will ask, since that question has been asked, CFO Beery, there have been some questions about If we had had this money for the TAO, what would have been different?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1239", "start": 8439.252, "end": 8448.501, "text": "And ultimately, in the spring TAO, we were able to return some money to the general fund to fill what had become an even greater hole.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1240", "start": 8449.608, "end": 8458.569, "text": "Sitting where we are in mid-April, if we had had that money for the general fund in the fall instead of in the spring, would anything be different?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1241", "start": 8458.905, "end": 8459.995, "text": "I think it would have been different.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1242", "start": 8460.861, "end": 8461.638, "text": "Would we have had more?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1243", "start": 8461.833, "end": 8463.517, "text": "Would we have plugged holes in different ways?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1244", "start": 8463.631, "end": 8475.304, "text": "Or would we be pretty much in the same place here in mid-April today if we had had this information, let's say, 2 months earlier?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1245", "start": 8476.922, "end": 8477.036, "text": "Right?", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1246", "start": 8477.1, "end": 8490.69, "text": "If that information had been shared with DCA Oliveira in May or June of last year and we had gone through all of this 2 months earlier and had Thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1247", "start": 8490.996, "end": 8491.849, "text": "That's a good question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1248", "start": 8491.961, "end": 8496.645, "text": "I think from a purely budget and financial perspective, we would be essentially exactly where we are today.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1249", "start": 8497.148, "end": 8497.456, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1250", "start": 8498.17, "end": 8498.446, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1251", "start": 8498.494, "end": 8501.722, "text": "That's helpful in my thinking about this.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1252", "start": 8503.49, "end": 8512.05, "text": "You know, I know we're mostly asking questions, but I do want to make sure, colleagues, that we're thinking about what we're trying to get at today.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1253", "start": 8514.331, "end": 8519.918, "text": "We've asked a lot of questions that lead to information that I think we already have the answers to.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1254", "start": 8521.597, "end": 8528.09, "text": "And there's a lot of different ways to do oversight, and it was said at the beginning that it's important that this isn't the last time we do oversight.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1255", "start": 8530.022, "end": 8536.879, "text": "I'm a firm believer that oversight should be a part of what our committees do regularly.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1256", "start": 8537.875, "end": 8539.024, "text": "This program isn't working.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1257", "start": 8539.124, "end": 8552.286, "text": "We're hearing about that It should be a part of the conversations we have, CA Lee, with your administrative team on a regular basis.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1258", "start": 8552.627, "end": 8563.23, "text": "And so I just hope that what we're trying to get to today is a better working relationship and an understanding of how things can work better in the future.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1259", "start": 8563.31, "end": 8566.393, "text": "Because, CFO Berry, to your point earlier, we will find a way to do this.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1260", "start": 8566.462, "end": 8566.67, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1261", "start": 8567.126, "end": 8573.38, "text": "This will happen again because we are working on cleaning up our accounting practices.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1262", "start": 8573.445, "end": 8580.916, "text": "And in fact, this is a testament to the fact that this form of government is working, that we are going to find those things.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1263", "start": 8583.303, "end": 8599.126, "text": "And I want to make sure that we are moving forward in how we are doing better for Portlanders and not Exactly what date did exactly who know on things where we would have ended up right where we are.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1264", "start": 8599.512, "end": 8600.396, "text": "So thank you.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1265", "start": 8600.525, "end": 8601.667, "text": "I appreciate that answer.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1266", "start": 8601.747, "end": 8608.054, "text": "And again, thank you to Councilor Koyama Lane for the question about lessons learned and taking that one off my plate.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1267", "start": 8610.907, "end": 8611.938, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1268", "start": 8612.437, "end": 8613.065, "text": "Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1269", "start": 8613.984, "end": 8615.401, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Chairman.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1270", "start": 8616.303, "end": 8619.855, "text": "I would like Michael Bonaccar Yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1271", "start": 8620.555, "end": 8630.072, "text": "Uh, Jonas, CFO Berry, DCA Oliveira, and, um, CBO Director Levine.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1272", "start": 8633.176, "end": 8634.34, "text": "And I just have one question.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1273", "start": 8634.388, "end": 8639.558, "text": "I, I, I agree with what, what, um, Councilor Pirtle-Guiney just said.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1274", "start": 8640.446, "end": 8644.142, "text": "This is a big task, and we're all learning at the same time.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1275", "start": 8645.103, "end": 8651.094, "text": "And I think we're trying to learn and walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1276", "start": 8651.935, "end": 8654.296, "text": "And as Councilor Morillo said, we should be able to do that.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1277", "start": 8654.685, "end": 8662.728, "text": "But there's so many moving balls and communication, getting communication to all 12 of us, that is a big task.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1278", "start": 8662.776, "end": 8663.908, "text": "And I do recognize that.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1279", "start": 8664.394, "end": 8669.542, "text": "But before I ask you all this one last question each, I want to say this to CA Lee.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1280", "start": 8670.658, "end": 8685.128, "text": "Do you think it is unreasonable— and we're in an oversight hearing— do you think it is unreasonable for council to ask where every penny is in this, in this city?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1281", "start": 8685.74, "end": 8687.219, "text": "Is that an unreasonable ask?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1282", "start": 8689.465, "end": 8690.772, "text": "No, it's not an unreasonable ask.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1283", "start": 8691.304, "end": 8691.627, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1284", "start": 8692.37, "end": 8694.855, "text": "I have one question, Michael.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1285", "start": 8696.258, "end": 8703.42, "text": "On February 4th in a city council meeting, because most of my questions were answered, I really didn't necessarily need today.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1286", "start": 8704.206, "end": 8713.792, "text": "Uh, I asked you the question, did you know that you did not report the monies, uh, from the Housing Bureau, the $20.7 million?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1287", "start": 8713.84, "end": 8714.386, "text": "You said yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1288", "start": 8715.045, "end": 8722.531, "text": "I said, did your people know under Oregon budget law we have to budget every dime, even if it's in Reserve?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1289", "start": 8723.616, "end": 8724.312, "text": "You said yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1290", "start": 8725.154, "end": 8729.783, "text": "And I said, that's a large amount now that we know that it's, it's increased.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1291", "start": 8730.576, "end": 8732.958, "text": "Was this over multiple years?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1292", "start": 8733.391, "end": 8734.098, "text": "And you said yes.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1293", "start": 8734.452, "end": 8735.207, "text": "So I was good.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1294", "start": 8735.705, "end": 8741.363, "text": "So I think there's a big elephant in the room that we're kind of dancing around, and I want to clear this up today.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1295", "start": 8743.062, "end": 8752.183, "text": "Did Michael Jordan or Mayor Wilson Did Mayor Wilson direct you to not tell us about unbudgeted funds?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1296", "start": 8753.493, "end": 8753.833, "text": "Michael?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1297", "start": 8754.642, "end": 8754.787, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1298", "start": 8756.017, "end": 8764.583, "text": "DCA Oliveira, did Michael Jordan or Mayor Wilson direct you to not tell us about any unbudgeted funds?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1299", "start": 8765.29, "end": 8765.451, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1300", "start": 8766.882, "end": 8779.235, "text": "CFO Berry, did former City Did former City Administrator Michael Jordan or Mayor Wilson direct you to not tell us about unbudgeted funds?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1301", "start": 8780.587, "end": 8780.655, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1302", "start": 8780.84, "end": 8782.762, "text": "You'll need to unlock your iPhone first.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1303", "start": 8786.85, "end": 8803.318, "text": "And I'm going to ask you, CBO Levine, Director, did former City Administrator Michael Jordan or Mayor Wilson direct you to not tell us about unbudgeted funds?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1304", "start": 8803.899, "end": 8804.061, "text": "No.", "speaker": "Candace Avalos" }, { "id": "cue-1305", "start": 8804.562, "end": 8804.966, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1306", "start": 8805.596, "end": 8809.518, "text": "I think that was the only question that I had from that day.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1307", "start": 8811.717, "end": 8821.609, "text": "I think we're going to have these growing pains, and I want to be able to build trust with all of you so that it is smoother going forward.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1308", "start": 8821.658, "end": 8832.367, "text": "That is my only goal, and to make sure that we that we as policymakers, that even if money goes into reserves, that we can put it in reserves.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1309", "start": 8832.544, "end": 8833.625, "text": "Just let us know.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1310", "start": 8834.4, "end": 8836.614, "text": "Thank you so much for preparing us for today.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1311", "start": 8839.353, "end": 8840.38, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1312", "start": 8840.657, "end": 8842.939, "text": "Go to Councilor Novick, and then I'll put myself in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1313", "start": 8844.67, "end": 8846.734, "text": "I want to thank Councilor Pirtle-Guiney for 2 things.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1314", "start": 8846.944, "end": 8856.321, "text": "One, for pointing out that when all is said and done, we probably aren't in a different financial position now Or have made different policy choices than we would have if we'd known more sooner.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1315", "start": 8856.787, "end": 8859.307, "text": "That doesn't mean that, you know, no harm, no foul.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1316", "start": 8859.372, "end": 8861.507, "text": "That doesn't mean that maybe we shouldn't have known certain things sooner.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1317", "start": 8861.587, "end": 8871.877, "text": "But I think it's important for the public to know that there haven't been like drastic consequences to the city as a result of what some would characterize the delay in the council hearing stuff.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1318", "start": 8872.84, "end": 8881.073, "text": "On a lighter note, I want to thank Councilor Pirtle-Guiney for something else, which is that given my age and that Watergate was a central thing in my childhood.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1319", "start": 8881.463, "end": 8885.018, "text": "When I think of anything relating to oversight hearings, that's what I think of.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1320", "start": 8885.526, "end": 8886.831, "text": "And so I've been thinking about that today.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1321", "start": 8886.976, "end": 8897.925, "text": "And then Councilor Pirtle-Guiney delightfully said, we will find some, some more money, which is reminiscent of one of the great Watergate lines, which is, yes, we can find the money, but it would be wrong.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1322", "start": 8898.215, "end": 8899.248, "text": "So thank you, Councilor.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1323", "start": 8905.058, "end": 8905.989, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1324", "start": 8906.038, "end": 8914.712, "text": "I thought I had a little more time there to get prepared, so I'll ask I'm going to ask a few questions now as well, and I appreciate everybody being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1325", "start": 8914.792, "end": 8924.635, "text": "And, and please take my questions as trying to understand a few particular points, and they're kind of for anyone that can answer from up here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1326", "start": 8924.763, "end": 8930.399, "text": "And I, I imagine probably not the director, uh, Bonaccor, but maybe the other 3 folks up here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1327", "start": 8930.945, "end": 8935.569, "text": "It's been said multiple times that the $11.75 million number was not certain.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1328", "start": 8935.986, "end": 8944.955, "text": "From late August, I believe, till the disclosure in November, which itself was a day or two after the $9 million that made it $20.7 was confirmed.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1329", "start": 8945.693, "end": 8955.48, "text": "So the disclosure actually occurred at a time of maybe maximal uncertainty because of that additional $9 million being added.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1330", "start": 8956.539, "end": 8979.449, "text": "I want to point out that while that number, the $11.75, which did not change, was being verified several So my question is, was it— how was it reliable enough of a number for administration officials to develop plans to spend it, but not a reliable enough number for council to know about it and be able to develop plans themselves, ourselves?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1331", "start": 8980.764, "end": 8982.369, "text": "I'll take that question, Councilor.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1332", "start": 8983.572, "end": 8985.866, "text": "So there was a couple of things happening in parallel.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1333", "start": 8986.219, "end": 8992.45, "text": "Just there was the Like, the question of answering, like, what— well, first, how did the money— why was the money not budgeted?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1334", "start": 8992.498, "end": 8997.992, "text": "Like, what was the, the dynamics that allowed this, this particular tranche of resources to be there unbudgeted?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1335", "start": 8998.731, "end": 9001.445, "text": "And then the question of what— where are allowable uses?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1336", "start": 9001.622, "end": 9002.778, "text": "What is the program typically doing?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1337", "start": 9002.826, "end": 9005.348, "text": "There was just like a 101 of, like, what does this thing do?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1338", "start": 9005.959, "end": 9012.432, "text": "And essentially, the, the bureau producing expenditure plans is what they would have done as a part of the budget process.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1339", "start": 9012.48, "end": 9014.951, "text": "I think that's something that has sort of been lost in translation.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1340", "start": 9015.453, "end": 9025.567, "text": "Picture a scenario where the bureau had actually put it in fiscal year '25-'26 budget, or even before that, but just, you know, for this year, those dollars would've been budgeted with a plan.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1341", "start": 9026.485, "end": 9032.05, "text": "So the question is essentially, how would you have, if they had been budgeted appropriately, how would you have done that?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1342", "start": 9032.13, "end": 9034.492, "text": "Like, what would those dollars have gone, you know, towards?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1343", "start": 9034.958, "end": 9036.179, "text": "So there was sort of that machination.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1344", "start": 9036.227, "end": 9039.505, "text": "That was the first iteration that Director Hissrich contemplated in hers.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1345", "start": 9039.938, "end": 9041.212, "text": "And after our conversation in September, Yeah.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1346", "start": 9041.422, "end": 9049.873, "text": "We had that second pass that she shared in October that included that particular case that there was a general fund allowance in those dollars, right?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1347", "start": 9049.954, "end": 9051.239, "text": "So that's one path.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1348", "start": 9051.769, "end": 9055.513, "text": "And then there's that second element, which is the confidence in the numbers.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1349", "start": 9055.561, "end": 9057.425, "text": "So let's figure out what they're used for.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1350", "start": 9057.473, "end": 9058.261, "text": "How would you use them?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1351", "start": 9058.534, "end": 9060.301, "text": "But then also, hey, we got to do some due diligence.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1352", "start": 9061.024, "end": 9062.808, "text": "How do we miss these dollars in the first place?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1353", "start": 9063.033, "end": 9063.997, "text": "What's the real number?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1354", "start": 9064.479, "end": 9066.15, "text": "So that was happening in parallel.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1355", "start": 9066.584, "end": 9072.707, "text": "I also just want to reiterate and restate that October was a very difficult time for the, you know, the Housing Bureau for different reasons.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1356", "start": 9073.06, "end": 9073.22, "text": "Sure.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1357", "start": 9073.444, "end": 9091.118, "text": "And when we got to that point of confirming the 11.75, it was also at that same time as they were like lockstocking that number in, um, that's when the reserve concept of with the additional $9 million came forward, which the Bureau had apparently discussed prior in the summer.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1358", "start": 9091.551, "end": 9101.676, "text": "That wasn't made— I wasn't made aware of that until Michael's email to me So that $9 million, just add, that was just an additional number that was validated as being, yeah, that number's accurate.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1359", "start": 9101.74, "end": 9102.365, "text": "They're really there.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1360", "start": 9102.878, "end": 9105.761, "text": "Okay, so that's essentially the parallel that was happening.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1361", "start": 9105.922, "end": 9107.155, "text": "So that's how those 2 things can happen at once.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1362", "start": 9107.203, "end": 9120.356, "text": "So I'm trying to understand what other than the OPB conversation and the policy recommendations ultimately alleviated the uncertainty sufficient for you to disclose it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1363", "start": 9120.644, "end": 9121.189, "text": "Well, you wanna?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1364", "start": 9121.381, "end": 9122.743, "text": "Yeah, Councilor, thank you for that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1365", "start": 9123.704, "end": 9133.078, "text": "So again, as we've talked about previously today, There's the things that the bureau was working on and the point in time that I became aware and confident.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1366", "start": 9133.142, "end": 9136.28, "text": "And so we're talking about 2 different simultaneous tracks.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1367", "start": 9136.86, "end": 9137.246, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1368", "start": 9138.68, "end": 9148.925, "text": "I also will— so if I had the ability to sit in every PHB meeting and every bureau conversation, there would be like 7 of me, probably 12 of me.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1369", "start": 9149.328, "end": 9150.488, "text": "That's not what exists.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1370", "start": 9150.536, "end": 9152.679, "text": "So that was not a possibility at that time.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1371", "start": 9154.202, "end": 9160.803, "text": "Also just want to acknowledge that putting the TAO together itself, happening exactly the same time, very heavy lift.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1372", "start": 9162.61, "end": 9163.801, "text": "City Administrator Jordan was out.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1373", "start": 9163.914, "end": 9172.948, "text": "I was acting as city administrator and taking on those responsibilities, including prioritizing the Protect Portland initiative, which was coming to council exactly during the same window.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1374", "start": 9173.416, "end": 9178.55, "text": "So I just want to set the stage of the difficulty in having clarity about that information.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1375", "start": 9178.599, "end": 9178.744, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1376", "start": 9180.623, "end": 9190.038, "text": "I had confusion about an $11.75 million number, and I had seen another $12.2 million number and had not seen under the hood to understand what those were.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1377", "start": 9190.825, "end": 9200.915, "text": "I made the call, given all of that confusion, to not highlight it for the public and for you because I was 0% certain about any of that information.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1378", "start": 9201.526, "end": 9210.621, "text": "And I've said that multiple times out loud and taken these public lashings If there's something else you would like me to say to answer your question, I'm happy to speak that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1379", "start": 9212.835, "end": 9215.83, "text": "So I'm, uh, I just want to point out I've asked one question.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1380", "start": 9216.201, "end": 9222.303, "text": "So I understand that you may have a frustration with that, uh, and I apologize for creating that, but I've asked one.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1381", "start": 9222.69, "end": 9239.372, "text": "Uh, so I'll move on because I'm, I'm trying to understand here if there is a difference in the mind of— and I understand it's not a monolithical monolithic organization, but is there a difference from just a follow-up to that in notifying council and notifying the public?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1382", "start": 9244.03, "end": 9244.994, "text": "I will answer that question.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1383", "start": 9245.042, "end": 9263.663, "text": "I think what I have seen through this council at times is notifying this council at times has been notifying the public, uh, as information— as we have shared information with the council That information has reached the public in that fashion.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1384", "start": 9264.256, "end": 9269.289, "text": "Typically in any government, we know it has that possibility to do it.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1385", "start": 9269.882, "end": 9297.47, "text": "We would hope in those kind of conversations, as we are having these conversations and working through things, that we could have those conversations with the intent that those conversations are happening with us and between us, and that we will develop and rationalize a plan of how do we We communicate to the community as a whole once we have accurate information and we're on the same page of what is that information that we'll be communicating to the public.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1386", "start": 9297.872, "end": 9319.134, "text": "Because I've— as I've been new into this community, I think that's some of the frustration that I've heard from citizens as they have reached us, reached out to me as it relates to it doesn't seem like The administration or the council are on the same page and there's bickering between the two.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1387", "start": 9319.535, "end": 9327.422, "text": "And I say I don't have any issue with the council and I haven't experienced that, but that has been the communication that has been shared with me.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1388", "start": 9327.744, "end": 9344.585, "text": "And I think that has raised some of the tension that you have here and some of the frustration that we have at the current state of the flow of communication and how that communication And I think there's room for growth on both ends of it.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1389", "start": 9344.665, "end": 9352.103, "text": "There's room for growth from the administration end and how do we communicate and ensure that council has that accurate information.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1390", "start": 9352.616, "end": 9365.265, "text": "There's room for growth from a council, from a grace standpoint to understand that, hey, we're gathering that information and be patient with us as we gather that information and communicate to council the information that we have.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1391", "start": 9365.313, "end": 9365.425, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1392", "start": 9365.682, "end": 9367.383, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1393", "start": 9367.544, "end": 9375.264, "text": "I, I'm— I might circle back to that, but I, I wanted to, to come in on these, and I, I want to note the mayor's been here, uh, patiently and, and hasn't had been called on.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1394", "start": 9375.312, "end": 9378.522, "text": "And, and feel free to jump in, Mr. Mayor, if this, if this is something you'd like to.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1395", "start": 9379.148, "end": 9381.796, "text": "Um, I want to understand the sequence though.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1396", "start": 9382.117, "end": 9383.69, "text": "Uh, so just make sure I have this right.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1397", "start": 9383.818, "end": 9387.83, "text": "It looks like the City Budget Office recommended the inclusion in the fall TAL.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1398", "start": 9388.296, "end": 9404.053, "text": "Housing Bureau Director also provided recommendations at the time, and then And then shifting a little further forward to, I believe it's the weekend of the 17th, 16th of November, there's a time where responsibility for developing these recommendations shifted to Portland Solutions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1399", "start": 9405.065, "end": 9407.734, "text": "And that's— is that an accurate description of what happened?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1400", "start": 9407.895, "end": 9414.312, "text": "I see there was an email from Director Brocker-Knapp at that time with the— in the records of— with the recommendations.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1401", "start": 9419.623, "end": 9427.512, "text": "The Portland Housing Bureau and Portland Solutions were really teamed up together on the Shelter to Housing Strike Team, so they had a close relationship.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1402", "start": 9427.721, "end": 9437.507, "text": "We meet every single week, uh, different sort of discussions are at the table, but there's a relationship between the two to address the, uh, housing and homelessness emergency.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1403", "start": 9438.342, "end": 9439.033, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Mayor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1404", "start": 9439.306, "end": 9442.777, "text": "So would I be correct in saying that that was the process working as it was intended to?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1405", "start": 9445.4, "end": 9454.498, "text": "The communication, yes, but specifics, you know, I can't speak to the specifics on the measures that we were discussing at the time or the money.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1406", "start": 9454.676, "end": 9456.093, "text": "In terms of the content of the recommendation?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1407", "start": 9456.141, "end": 9456.64, "text": "Yeah, exactly.", "speaker": "Dan Ryan" }, { "id": "cue-1408", "start": 9456.705, "end": 9457.091, "text": "Fair enough.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1409", "start": 9457.413, "end": 9457.623, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1410", "start": 9460.972, "end": 9469.489, "text": "At what point, I guess we've asked, you know, where many other of the other folks at this table have been involved.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1411", "start": 9470.022, "end": 9483.22, "text": "I'm trying to understand at what point— and this is to circle back to, um, to the question I asked to City Administrator Lee— at what point the mayor, your office, became aware of the money?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1412", "start": 9483.573, "end": 9489.554, "text": "Because my understanding from the records is it's, it's a significantly, maybe a couple months gap from then to the council side.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1413", "start": 9490.292, "end": 9490.95, "text": "Is that accurate?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1414", "start": 9491.014, "end": 9493.339, "text": "And by the way, I think you should know as early as possible.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1415", "start": 9493.419, "end": 9495.873, "text": "I want to be very clear about that, uh, up front here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1416", "start": 9495.937, "end": 9501.756, "text": "I think the But I just want to make sure I understand that there was a gap there.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1417", "start": 9502.787, "end": 9503.737, "text": "Is that accurate?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1418", "start": 9506.23, "end": 9507.179, "text": "Sorry, accurate gap?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1419", "start": 9507.227, "end": 9509.013, "text": "Sorry, can you clarify the gap?", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1420", "start": 9509.64, "end": 9514.304, "text": "The gap between when the mayor's office was notified and when the council was notified on November 20th.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1421", "start": 9516.731, "end": 9522.565, "text": "Early on, when the numbers were first shared with me, I gave the mayor's office a heads up.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1422", "start": 9522.66, "end": 9532.82, "text": "City Administrator Jordan, CFO Berry, and the mayor, like a heads up with no— it was a passive comment in a— or passing comment in a check-in.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1423", "start": 9533.653, "end": 9535.977, "text": "There's something at the Housing Bureau, we're going to figure it out.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1424", "start": 9536.137, "end": 9544.102, "text": "Like, it was a very high level with not specifics because this was in that early September— excuse me, early September period where we were still figuring it out.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1425", "start": 9544.182, "end": 9546.378, "text": "So I would say that was the first time.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1426", "start": 9547.051, "end": 9553.317, "text": "And then more specifics came later in October, at the end of October, early November, when we said, okay, this is— this looks real.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1427", "start": 9553.381, "end": 9553.525, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1428", "start": 9554.119, "end": 9557.068, "text": "So the gap was more like 2 or 3 weeks, maybe?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1429", "start": 9558.014, "end": 9559.569, "text": "A month, yeah, I would say.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1430", "start": 9560.114, "end": 9560.275, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1431", "start": 9560.435, "end": 9566.687, "text": "And it so happens that these 2 or 3 weeks were pretty significant because of the TAO and because of everything else going on, which CFO Beery pointed out.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1432", "start": 9567.553, "end": 9571.705, "text": "But it's not a lengthy, you know, number of days, nominally speaking.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1433", "start": 9572.538, "end": 9573.645, "text": "But I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1434", "start": 9573.741, "end": 9582.483, "text": "I'm trying to understand, I guess, and this goes back to the previous question about the distinction between telling the council and telling the public.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1435", "start": 9583.84, "end": 9591.911, "text": "Does that distinction exist, or does— can— is there a similar distinction in terms of notifying the mayor's office and notifying the public, CALE?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1436", "start": 9593.645, "end": 9601.657, "text": "Typically, in the form of government that we have, the mayor would've probably been the first person to know as the executive arm of the organization.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1437", "start": 9602.243, "end": 9611.746, "text": "And then we would've probably notified council president and vice president in there, then distribute out the information to the full council.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1438", "start": 9612.194, "end": 9615.544, "text": "That's typically how I would have worked a communication chain like that.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1439", "start": 9615.88, "end": 9623.235, "text": "Make sure the leadership of the organization is aware of the situation, then making sure that communication is hitting the full body.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1440", "start": 9624.389, "end": 9629.853, "text": "Okay, I have a comment on that, but I did want to ask one other semi-related question to CFO Beery.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1441", "start": 9630.639, "end": 9637.917, "text": "I appreciate your point about operating on a I also know that that's true of the City Budget Office and many other parts of our administration right now.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1442", "start": 9638.334, "end": 9644.38, "text": "I've also heard you say, CFO Beery, that you do not have the human capacity to meet council's expectations at the current time.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1443", "start": 9645.23, "end": 9654.178, "text": "I don't know that the council can give you everything that you need, but I don't 100% know what that would be, and I'd like to work to get you more of it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1444", "start": 9654.531, "end": 9656.375, "text": "And that applies as well to City Budget Office.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1445", "start": 9656.92, "end": 9667.845, "text": "So my question is, what human resource or capacity do you need in order to make sure that we are making the changes necessary to effectively track our funds and meet the expectations of City Council?", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1446", "start": 9668.391, "end": 9669.883, "text": "Yeah, Councilor, thank you for the question.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1447", "start": 9670.413, "end": 9672.996, "text": "I don't have a number to provide you.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1448", "start": 9673.766, "end": 9681.05, "text": "You know, frankly, recognizing the constrained budget environment, that wasn't work that I prepared to present in an ad package.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1449", "start": 9682.382, "end": 9684.34, "text": "Certainly there are things in motion.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1450", "start": 9684.436, "end": 9695.646, "text": "Many of the things we've discussed today, organizational realignment and kind of corrective reporting expectations that will help mitigate that.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1451", "start": 9696.802, "end": 9698.682, "text": "There's 2 ends to this question, right?", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1452", "start": 9698.746, "end": 9701.462, "text": "One is the number of humans to catch the work.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1453", "start": 9701.783, "end": 9706.169, "text": "The other end is kind of the volume and expectations about performance of that work.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1454", "start": 9706.844, "end": 9716.287, "text": "And so I can— happy to work with you to come up with a more firm numerical representation of what that expectation might be.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1455", "start": 9716.752, "end": 9728.697, "text": "But I think there are some things we can do organizationally to help create a little more space and bandwidth to prioritize the things that are high value and maybe deprioritize some of the things that are high effort and lower value.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1456", "start": 9728.761, "end": 9733.379, "text": "And that would be an immediate action that we could take collectively to help produce a little bit of bandwidth.", "speaker": "Jonas Bieri" }, { "id": "cue-1457", "start": 9734.197, "end": 9735.03, "text": "Yeah, I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1458", "start": 9735.159, "end": 9743.384, "text": "And that leads me to the thought that there is a structural gap in us not being able directly at the moment to Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1459", "start": 9743.512, "end": 9754.342, "text": "—To ask for those add packages some years when the overall constraint— because there's going to be times in a cut year where you still have to invest in some parts of the administration, and there's going to be times in an add year where we still want to cut.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1460", "start": 9755.609, "end": 9764.657, "text": "But the overall piece is something I'd like to talk about so that we're not only talking about council expectations needing to change— that's a part of the solution— but also about the capacity.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1461", "start": 9765.957, "end": 9769.422, "text": "The other point I want to make is something we've said several times from Yes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1462", "start": 9769.518, "end": 9793.52, "text": "I've come up at this dais in other contexts around the budget, which is the simple idea that if it's good enough for one elected leader in our government to receive the information, then with some logistical timeframe built in for the, the fact that we are 12 of us and it is difficult to get us all in the same place sometimes in the right setting, attorney-client privilege setting or whatever, but if it is good enough there, it is good enough for all 14 of the elected officials.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1463", "start": 9794.433, "end": 9797.159, "text": "That's my opinion that I've expressed several times from this dais.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1464", "start": 9797.319, "end": 9806.902, "text": "I stand by it and I think that what I've heard here is that there is a move towards that direction, but I don't know that that exact destination has been stated, um, on the record.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1465", "start": 9806.95, "end": 9808.761, "text": "So I just wanted to restate it for myself.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1466", "start": 9809.562, "end": 9819.353, "text": "Um, and that is just about my time, so I will go back to the queue and pass to Councilor Zimmerman and then Councilor Green, and then we'll probably be wrapping up unless anyone else gets in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1467", "start": 9819.657, "end": 9819.994, "text": "Thanks.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1468", "start": 9820.939, "end": 9821.42, "text": "Uh, thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1469", "start": 9821.5, "end": 9822.974, "text": "I think I have some 4 minutes left.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1470", "start": 9823.182, "end": 9845.481, "text": "I, I just think it's clear to me today after I think that what we've seen under, you know, this process, as well as the report that CA Lee has referenced and other reports that we've seen, that this has just been a failure to properly disclose and budget is both a system failure, but also there are some personal failures to certain mid- to high-ranking Portland Housing Bureau employees.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1471", "start": 9846.075, "end": 9855.348, "text": "I think that Jonas's deep dive with the employees to frankly unearth Other areas of unbudgeted, we'll call them reserves, is commendable.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1472", "start": 9855.396, "end": 9857.319, "text": "And I really appreciate you doing that deep dive.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1473", "start": 9857.367, "end": 9861.198, "text": "I think leaders go to the point of friction, and this was a point of friction, and you dove in.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1474", "start": 9862.513, "end": 9873.012, "text": "To Michael Bonocore, our interim director, I just very much appreciate that within the first days of taking the helm, you began to kind of right the ship.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1475", "start": 9874.118, "end": 9880.048, "text": "You— your instinct to notify the DCA and others Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1476", "start": 9880.998, "end": 9900.626, "text": "And I bring that up because, in fact, at the director level, that instinct is actually a professional expectation, and that the lack of that instinct would actually be a point of professional failing, and in my words, the reason for cause termination.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1477", "start": 9900.997, "end": 9906.693, "text": "Directors have instinct that we ask you to To use, and you did that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1478", "start": 9906.822, "end": 9908.26, "text": "So thank you for staying with us.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1479", "start": 9908.616, "end": 9910.926, "text": "Thank you for, for righting the ship a bit.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1480", "start": 9912.009, "end": 9917.835, "text": "And I understand that the former director was separated with a no-cause provision, and that's the administration's purview.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1481", "start": 9918.176, "end": 9919.023, "text": "I won't question that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1482", "start": 9919.153, "end": 9920.178, "text": "That's your prerogative.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1483", "start": 9921.072, "end": 9943.033, "text": "But Mr. Bonaccor, as the interim director, I just want to be clear that there are more people in the organization and others who need either significantly more training and development to no longer violate Oregon budget laws, or who don't possess that professional instinct to continue in their role.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1484", "start": 9944.013, "end": 9955.079, "text": "And I want to say very clearly, you have my full support in the direction that you want to go, to either invest time in that, in that redevelopment and that training, or to clean house as you see fit.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1485", "start": 9955.898, "end": 9962.755, "text": "So I appreciate everybody who has stepped to right a ship that frankly was not being transparent.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1486", "start": 9963.542, "end": 9964.89, "text": "Last year it was a different bureau.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1487", "start": 9965.051, "end": 9966.175, "text": "This year it's this bureau.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1488", "start": 9966.592, "end": 9968.086, "text": "I wonder how far it goes.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1489", "start": 9968.262, "end": 9991.031, "text": "And so for those who are certainly tuning in, if you work in finance and budget, I deeply hope, and I will say it again, I deeply hope you consider just how dashed or solid that line of reporting is to the Central Budget Office, to the Central Finance Office, And how important it is that you understand that all bureaus work for the mayor and the city administrator, and there is no obscuring of funds.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1490", "start": 9991.368, "end": 9992.714, "text": "There is no not reporting of money.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1491", "start": 9992.97, "end": 9999.011, "text": "All funds, to Councilor Smith's point, all pennies in this account shall be determined clear and transparently.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1492", "start": 9999.075, "end": 10001.35, "text": "So thank you for those who stepped in.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1493", "start": 10001.623, "end": 10003.818, "text": "This has been an odd several months.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1494", "start": 10004.203, "end": 10014.028, "text": "I never thought when I asked a simple question in July about where does the RSO fund go and what has it achieved, that this would turn into such a cascade, but it certainly has.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1495", "start": 10014.525, "end": 10016.69, "text": "And there are a lot of reasons for that.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1496", "start": 10016.77, "end": 10022.43, "text": "But for those of you who had the professional instinct to do the right thing, thank you for taking the time to make that clear.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1497", "start": 10022.559, "end": 10024.371, "text": "Thank you for unearthing additional funds.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1498", "start": 10025.445, "end": 10028.123, "text": "And my appreciation to you exists.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1499", "start": 10028.315, "end": 10028.7, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Eric Zimmerman" }, { "id": "cue-1500", "start": 10030.095, "end": 10031.105, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Zimmerman.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1501", "start": 10031.218, "end": 10033.415, "text": "Councilor Green, and then we'll start the process of closing it out.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1502", "start": 10034.264, "end": 10036.14, "text": "Yeah, so I don't actually have any further questions.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1503", "start": 10036.189, "end": 10036.846, "text": "I'm in the queue.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1504", "start": 10038.686, "end": 10043.735, "text": "If there's a part of your hearing that has a general discussion piece among council, that's what this is for?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1505", "start": 10044.496, "end": 10045.176, "text": "Just go right into it?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1506", "start": 10045.321, "end": 10045.677, "text": "Okay, great.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1507", "start": 10046.212, "end": 10048.642, "text": "Thanks for everyone for taking the time to answer my questions today.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1508", "start": 10048.723, "end": 10053.807, "text": "I know this has been a difficult several hours, and I appreciate your partnership in helping us grow as a city.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1509", "start": 10055.32, "end": 10063.601, "text": "I think what we've learned here today is that a whole lot of folks in the city knew for months about funds that could have been used in the TAO, but that information was not shared with council.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1510", "start": 10063.649, "end": 10063.875, "text": "That's correct.", "speaker": "Donnie Oliveira" }, { "id": "cue-1511", "start": 10064.927, "end": 10074.285, "text": "Specific recommendations were made by the CPO and by the head of the Housing Bureau that these funds could be used in the TAL, but those recommendations never made it to us.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1512", "start": 10075.118, "end": 10080.807, "text": "And as a result, we made critical budget decisions that might have been very different had we been given the full picture.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1513", "start": 10081.047, "end": 10082.073, "text": "And that is a real problem.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1514", "start": 10082.169, "end": 10086.607, "text": "And we've all talked about and acknowledged that we've got to fix that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1515", "start": 10086.832, "end": 10095.254, "text": "So I think to the extent that there is any kind of closure on this oversight, hearing, it's the acknowledgment that there is work to do.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1516", "start": 10095.543, "end": 10096.634, "text": "So I think that's a win.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1517", "start": 10097.485, "end": 10108.982, "text": "But I do want to push back on one thing that I've heard today up at the dais, not from anyone out there, is this idea that there were no practical consequences to delaying disclosure until after the TAO.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1518", "start": 10110.234, "end": 10116.159, "text": "Colleagues, we learned about the presence of this money and the city learned about the presence of this money through reporting.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1519", "start": 10116.655, "end": 10122.678, "text": "That said, whoops, we found $21 million that's just hidden.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1520", "start": 10123.033, "end": 10136.513, "text": "And because of that, we never had an opportunity as a body, as a collective government, to discuss whether it was hidden, whether it was an accounting problem, whether it was something that we wanted to try to address on a programmatic level.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1521", "start": 10137.065, "end": 10140.064, "text": "And we had the loss of public trust because of it.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1522", "start": 10140.113, "end": 10140.858, "text": "So there was consequence.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1523", "start": 10141.917, "end": 10142.793, "text": "I think there was significant consequence to that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1524", "start": 10142.844, "end": 10143.332, "text": "Councilor Smith, you had a question?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1525", "start": 10145.454, "end": 10152.289, "text": "And I think the decisions that we made in the TAO could have been different with regards to how we hedged our risk going into spring.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1526", "start": 10152.726, "end": 10153.651, "text": "Now that ship has sailed.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1527", "start": 10154.269, "end": 10155.439, "text": "We're going to do it better next time.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1528", "start": 10155.488, "end": 10156.479, "text": "I'm pretty confident in that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1529", "start": 10158.312, "end": 10169.556, "text": "But one of the things that I've heard through this discussion is that structurally there is a line of reporting from the CBO up through the city administrative office.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1530", "start": 10169.605, "end": 10169.654, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Michael Bonaccore" }, { "id": "cue-1531", "start": 10170.645, "end": 10173.423, "text": "And that's— so I actually have a question for the City Attorney.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1532", "start": 10174.178, "end": 10181.484, "text": "In the charter, I understand that it grants the mayor the duty and the right to propose the budget.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1533", "start": 10181.901, "end": 10184.374, "text": "It's the mayor's obligation to propose the budget.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1534", "start": 10185.739, "end": 10196.835, "text": "I don't see in the charter that the CBO is required to be nested under the mayor and whether or not a different structure exists and whether or not council can have direct access to the budget.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1535", "start": 10196.964, "end": 10197.445, "text": "I think that's a good question.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1536", "start": 10199.174, "end": 10201.233, "text": "Could you give me a little bit of understanding on that?", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1537", "start": 10201.914, "end": 10202.87, "text": "Yeah, great question.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1538", "start": 10202.968, "end": 10203.324, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1539", "start": 10203.389, "end": 10205.302, "text": "Robert Taylor, City Attorney.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1540", "start": 10207.15, "end": 10211.602, "text": "The budget director is a position that is expressly called out in the charter.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1541", "start": 10213.578, "end": 10217.627, "text": "It is under Section 2-406.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1542", "start": 10224.68, "end": 10230.229, "text": "And that's the portion of the charter that outlines the duties of the city administrator.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1543", "start": 10231.815, "end": 10236.135, "text": "It says the city administrator shall control and administer the financial affairs of the city.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1544", "start": 10237.446, "end": 10243.909, "text": "The administrator may appoint a budget director to act under the administrator's direction.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1545", "start": 10244.752, "end": 10251.151, "text": "So that's the portion of the charter that assigns the budget director Under the administrator.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1546", "start": 10251.312, "end": 10252.993, "text": "The administrator is under the mayor.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1547", "start": 10253.672, "end": 10253.979, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1548", "start": 10255.014, "end": 10267.354, "text": "And there is also a city code provision around the budget office, what their duties are, and how they're supposed to provide information.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1549", "start": 10268.595, "end": 10287.46, "text": "And in there, it talks about the budget office having responsibility to give information to the mayor and the administrator and And I think that is what Budget Director Levine was trying to express, that structurally she reports up to the administrator and the mayor.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1550", "start": 10288.005, "end": 10296.194, "text": "And there's this code provision and, you know, this understanding that she needs to work with you as the body.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1551", "start": 10296.578, "end": 10306.909, "text": "And Administrator Lee was explaining his expectation for how all of that should work in terms of communications with you and sharing information.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1552", "start": 10307.969, "end": 10308.691, "text": "That's very helpful.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1553", "start": 10308.788, "end": 10309.863, "text": "I appreciate that answer.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1554", "start": 10311.26, "end": 10322.259, "text": "So my understanding is that what's not explicitly spelled out in the charter is clarified in code as to then how the CBO performs the function envisioned in the charter.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1555", "start": 10323.239, "end": 10338.851, "text": "And then, so then if there's opportunities to change this and clarify, I think this council would have an opportunity in the code to adjust the responsibilities of the budget office.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1556", "start": 10339.774, "end": 10347.302, "text": "It needs to be consistent with the charter, but I do think the charter is clear on the reporting structure.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1557", "start": 10348.533, "end": 10353.146, "text": "But in terms of the duties, I think there is some ability for the council to legislate in that area.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1558", "start": 10353.211, "end": 10354.769, "text": "Councilor Herbold, Okay, thank you.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1559", "start": 10354.945, "end": 10355.442, "text": "I appreciate that.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1560", "start": 10355.491, "end": 10357.817, "text": "And colleagues, thanks for your participation in this today.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1561", "start": 10357.993, "end": 10360.56, "text": "I think I'm done.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1562", "start": 10360.945, "end": 10362.181, "text": "So thanks so much, Mr. Mayor.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1563", "start": 10362.245, "end": 10364.796, "text": "Thanks so much, Mr. City Administrator.", "speaker": "Mitch Green" }, { "id": "cue-1564", "start": 10365.678, "end": 10366.111, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1565", "start": 10366.256, "end": 10369.882, "text": "I see as you've been speaking, Councilor Green, that Councilor Smith and Novick have gotten in the queue.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1566", "start": 10369.93, "end": 10373.17, "text": "We've got enough time for each to have a couple minutes, so I'll do that.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1567", "start": 10373.251, "end": 10375.513, "text": "If anyone else wants to get in the queue, now is your last chance.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1568", "start": 10376.219, "end": 10377.903, "text": "So Councilor Smith and then Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1569", "start": 10378.048, "end": 10379.171, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Chairman.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1570", "start": 10380.884, "end": 10388.365, "text": "City Attorney Taylor, you talked about what was in code and the direction that it gives for the budget director.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1571", "start": 10389.008, "end": 10394.578, "text": "Now, when was that code— doesn't the charter supersede the code?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1572", "start": 10394.723, "end": 10395.947, "text": "When was that code written?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1573", "start": 10397.833, "end": 10409.368, "text": "It is correct that the charter supersedes the code, and that code That code's been around for a while.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1574", "start": 10409.432, "end": 10411.5, "text": "It existed in the previous form of the law.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1575", "start": 10411.581, "end": 10412.687, "text": "Like 20, 30 years?", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1576", "start": 10414.162, "end": 10416.135, "text": "I don't know if it is quite that long.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1577", "start": 10416.488, "end": 10420.754, "text": "I think I'll try to do the history lesson.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1578", "start": 10420.802, "end": 10425.597, "text": "I guess where I'm trying to go is that that code is what it is.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1579", "start": 10425.773, "end": 10435.529, "text": "It is a code, and as many have said here about this today, Hearing, it is a relic of the past that got us to today.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1580", "start": 10436.059, "end": 10446.544, "text": "So basically what we should be looking at is what is in charter, not what is in code, because the charter supersedes that, as you just said.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1581", "start": 10447.202, "end": 10456.258, "text": "And so unless you change the charter, you cannot change what the city budget director does in code.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1582", "start": 10456.306, "end": 10456.499, "text": "Thank you.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1583", "start": 10457.61, "end": 10463.187, "text": "You cannot do in code something that is inconsistent with the charter.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1584", "start": 10464.273, "end": 10479.385, "text": "The charter will often provide broad principles, and then code is there to fill that out, provide more details, and the code needs to be consistent with the charter.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1585", "start": 10480.323, "end": 10482.959, "text": "In terms of the budget office, I think it's an interesting conversation.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1586", "start": 10484.399, "end": 10486.729, "text": "I think historically it reported to the mayor.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1587", "start": 10487.773, "end": 10497.398, "text": "And under the old form of government, that caused friction with the other members of council who felt they did not have the same access to the budget office that the mayor did.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1588", "start": 10498.073, "end": 10503.905, "text": "And then I believe this code was adopted many, many years ago by the prior form of government.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1589", "start": 10503.953, "end": 10504.227, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1590", "start": 10504.966, "end": 10509.609, "text": "And the intent of that was to try to give other councilors more access.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1591", "start": 10511.43, "end": 10511.543, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1592", "start": 10512.093, "end": 10524.509, "text": "And then when the charter was changed for this new form of government, this code provision was updated like many, many, many other parts of the code to try to reflect the new form of government.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1593", "start": 10526.112, "end": 10534.425, "text": "And this code provision, like any other code provision, this council can change, can legislate, as long as it's consistent with what's in the charter.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1594", "start": 10535.059, "end": 10535.189, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1595", "start": 10535.319, "end": 10540.842, "text": "And the charter says that the budget director reports up to the administrator and the mayor.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1596", "start": 10541.387, "end": 10551.13, "text": "And I'm good with that, and I'm good with the direction that, um, that our budget office, uh, gave us, that they also want to give us information as well.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1597", "start": 10551.226, "end": 10553.71, "text": "And I think this comes down to an information gap.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1598", "start": 10554.367, "end": 10556.354, "text": "What I found here was an information gap.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1599", "start": 10556.674, "end": 10568.589, "text": "And if we, if we find out months later about monies that were, um, known about And they were not reported in our previous fiscal year.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1600", "start": 10569.825, "end": 10573.084, "text": "And now we're, you know, we're going on to another fiscal year.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1601", "start": 10573.839, "end": 10577.981, "text": "It, um, it gets dicey for us because we are the policymakers.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1602", "start": 10578.109, "end": 10587.308, "text": "And then when a TAO comes out that has policy decisions in the TAO that have been created by the budget office, they don't create policy.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1603", "start": 10588.287, "end": 10590.518, "text": "They should let us know, let us write the policy.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1604", "start": 10590.631, "end": 10590.775, "text": "I agree.", "speaker": "Elana Pirtle-Guiney" }, { "id": "cue-1605", "start": 10591.355, "end": 10592.852, "text": "And say, this is where we want to go.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1606", "start": 10592.9, "end": 10598.326, "text": "So, but we're getting policy direction from the budget office, and that's not what they said.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1607", "start": 10598.761, "end": 10604.997, "text": "And so that direction either has to come because in the charter, the mayor can drop policy.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1608", "start": 10606.666, "end": 10615.646, "text": "So I think where we're experiencing some difficulties up here is just about where we get the information.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1609", "start": 10615.696, "end": 10619.107, "text": "And legally, How we get the information.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1610", "start": 10619.156, "end": 10623.99, "text": "I don't know how you legislate that, but that's a— that seems to be a common theme.", "speaker": "Loretta Smith" }, { "id": "cue-1611", "start": 10624.492, "end": 10625.174, "text": "Yeah, thank you.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1612", "start": 10625.239, "end": 10627.122, "text": "I would agree with that.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1613", "start": 10627.411, "end": 10639.852, "text": "And there was reference among council today about the other provision of the charter that the administrator has the responsibility to keep the council fully informed of the financial affairs of the city.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1614", "start": 10641.736, "end": 10642.445, "text": "And that is in the charter.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1615", "start": 10643.606, "end": 10654.636, "text": "And I think that is a lot of what this conversation has been about from council and from the administration in terms of when do we expect to get the information?", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1616", "start": 10655.627, "end": 10659.785, "text": "How fully baked do we expect the information to be before we get it?", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1617", "start": 10662.148, "end": 10669.845, "text": "When is our level of confidence in the information that we feel like we can even share it, that it's reliable or semi-reliable?", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1618", "start": 10670.728, "end": 10675.027, "text": "And I think that is the conversation that has been very helpful today to have.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1619", "start": 10675.075, "end": 10686.568, "text": "And I think that is a reason why this hearing is appropriate to try to carry out that charter provision of making sure council can be fully informed.", "speaker": "Robert Taylor" }, { "id": "cue-1620", "start": 10688, "end": 10688.771, "text": "Thank you, Attorney Taylor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1621", "start": 10688.835, "end": 10689.816, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Smith.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1622", "start": 10689.88, "end": 10692.099, "text": "Councilor Novick, about 3 minutes.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1623", "start": 10692.147, "end": 10692.34, "text": "Sorry.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1624", "start": 10692.774, "end": 10703.13, "text": "In response to Councilor Green's comment, I just want to say that I don't think I don't think that either Councilor Pirtle-Guiney or I said that there were no consequences from this information not being known earlier.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1625", "start": 10703.373, "end": 10707.699, "text": "I think that we said that we don't think that there were policy or financial consequences.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1626", "start": 10708.359, "end": 10716.394, "text": "Obviously, it was not a good thing for there to be a bunch of news stories saying that the city had miraculously found a bunch of money that was somehow hidden under the couch cushions.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1627", "start": 10717.231, "end": 10718.407, "text": "Those were not good stories.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1628", "start": 10719.083, "end": 10724.959, "text": "I did also want to say that after we knew about the money, it took this council nearly 4 months to decide how to spend it.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1629", "start": 10725.024, "end": 10725.249, "text": "I think that's right.", "speaker": "Lee" }, { "id": "cue-1630", "start": 10725.442, "end": 10725.621, "text": "It.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1631", "start": 10726.173, "end": 10727.765, "text": "I'm not saying that that's bad.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1632", "start": 10728.269, "end": 10731.258, "text": "Um, I think that it's better to spend money thoughtfully than to spend it quickly.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1633", "start": 10731.929, "end": 10738.466, "text": "But I do not think that if we had found out about this money on, say, October 20th, we would have figured out what to do with it by the time of the fall TAO.", "speaker": "Steve Novick" }, { "id": "cue-1634", "start": 10741.639, "end": 10742.621, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Novick.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1635", "start": 10742.718, "end": 10750.658, "text": "So, um, I'm going to start the process of closing out, but first I want to take the opportunity to thank, uh, everyone who was here for the administration.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1636", "start": 10750.934, "end": 10754.226, "text": "Uh, Deputy Director Gonzalez, I don't think we I never even called you up, but thank you for being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1637", "start": 10754.611, "end": 10755.364, "text": "I appreciate it.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1638", "start": 10755.941, "end": 10763.456, "text": "Um, City Administrator Lee, and I, I think it's worth pointing out, uh, for those who weren't tracking, that, that all this happened before City Administrator Lee started.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1639", "start": 10763.872, "end": 10765.315, "text": "Um, so if you didn't know, now you know.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1640", "start": 10765.875, "end": 10768.904, "text": "Um, CFO Beery, thank you for being here and answering questions.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1641", "start": 10769.08, "end": 10773.999, "text": "Uh, City Deputy City Administrator Oliveira, thank you for being here, as well as Housing Director Bonaccor.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1642", "start": 10774.063, "end": 10779.367, "text": "I specifically want to thank the mayor, uh, for coming and, and, uh, taking time out of his day for being, for being here.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1643", "start": 10780.056, "end": 10792.572, "text": "And, and just on a personal note, every time we see, uh, Ruth Levine, the director of the City Budget Office, I, I am really impressed over and over again doing the right thing, um, and, and having the, the initiative to do so.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1644", "start": 10792.652, "end": 10794.735, "text": "So I, I want to just add that as well.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1645", "start": 10795.2, "end": 10799.254, "text": "Um, we kind of set aside a couple minutes here to talk about what did we learn.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1646", "start": 10799.303, "end": 10802.988, "text": "I don't know that that's really something that needs a separate conversation.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1647", "start": 10803.052, "end": 10810.063, "text": "I think that's for all of us to consider as we move into the next step, but just a, a question to pose to all of us as we think about the next hearing.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1648", "start": 10810.127, "end": 10814.429, "text": "Because I, I do want to thank everyone for approaching today with seriousness and with decorum.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1649", "start": 10814.942, "end": 10823.69, "text": "I do agree with Councilor Green's comment earlier that ideally oversight is routine and boring, and I intend, um, that this won't be the last oversight hearing we ever have.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1650", "start": 10823.754, "end": 10828.456, "text": "The next step for this particular process, um, is up to the, the council president.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1651", "start": 10828.505, "end": 10847.903, "text": "Under the resolution, the council president may schedule More, and I'll be working with the committee, the whole vice chairs, and the council president to determine what the next steps are for this or any other oversight hearings on a regular cadence in terms of how we schedule it for this body on various topics of interest to the full council, including but not limited to this topic.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1652", "start": 10848.961, "end": 10857.512, "text": "So, and I think ideally these hearings are not in reaction to any particular incident or revelation, but part of our regular book of business.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1653", "start": 10857.641, "end": 10864.248, "text": "So, uh, with that, um, I will adjourn the meeting of the Committee of the Whole in this oversight hearing at 12:26 PM.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" }, { "id": "cue-1654", "start": 10864.362, "end": 10864.977, "text": "Thank you, everybody.", "speaker": "Sameer Kanal" } ] }